[HN Gopher] How to fuck up an airport ___________________________________________________________________ How to fuck up an airport Author : danso Score : 161 points Date : 2022-07-01 14:59 UTC (2 days ago) (HTM) web link (www.radiospaetkauf.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.radiospaetkauf.com) | redsid wrote: | A few decades ago, when my boss (senior exec at major US airline) | was negotiating to be a part of Denver International Airport - he | wrote in legalese requiring Denver Stapleton airport to be | shutdown. He expected DIA to have tons of problems which it did, | but killing Stapleton kept DIA on track. | | Couple of anecdotes - the baggage handling design (I saw the | revised version) was shuttling suitcases easily above 25 | miles/hour and the architects had them drop through chutes at | such high speeds | | Much later, with the youtube era, I came across the various | conspiracies on DIA. Good for a bored late night browsing | BergTheBold wrote: | Oh this is an article about how someone _else_ screwed up an | airport? I was hoping to learn how to mess them up myself :( | vasco wrote: | Very annoying but not super bad. | | 1. Buy tickets to a bunch of flights on any day. | | 2. Check-in luggage with a raspberry pi inside with a bunch of | electronics coming out of it and two powered 8 segment | displays. | | 3. Do not board any of those planes. | | All those planes will be delayed while they remove your checked | luggage from the hold since nowadays planes don't take-off with | luggage if the traveller doesn't also board. With all planes | delayed you can probably choke the runways and delay all | departures. | h2odragon wrote: | Scatter lots of birdseed around them. Probably not even | illegal. | brewdad wrote: | Pull a fire alarm. Sneak through security or run past the TSA | agent falling asleep near the exit of the secured area. Try to | open one of those secured doors marked "alarm will sound". | There's lots of ways. | | Note: This is not actual advice. Not responsible for any | resulting fines or prison sentences. | daxfohl wrote: | Using F# | | (edit: This made sense before someone uncensored the title) | da39a3ee wrote: | Germany doesn't traditionally have a reputation for incompetence. | It sounds like this podcast gives many proximate reasons for this | project's failure. What are the ultimate reasons? | qolop wrote: | Why can't such interesting articles be published without the | unnecessary profanity? It actually prevents me from sharing it | with a lot of people. | mattcaldwell wrote: | The world is falling apart and people are still worried about | harmless words. Talk about misplaced concerns... | Roguelike wrote: | CharlesW wrote: | > _The world is falling apart and people are still worried | about harmless words._ | | The parent mentioned that it prevents him from sharing, not | that they were personally worried about it. I'm also | perfectly comfortable using salty language with friends and | family, but very rarely use it on social channels. It's all | about context. | MerelyMortal wrote: | sieabahlpark wrote: | jandrese wrote: | Step one: Create the TSA. | rover0 wrote: | TLDR: | | * All the public bids where too expensive. so the City decided to | be it's own contractor, it must be cheaper. | | * Keep changing plans, double the size .. after starting | construction. | | * Hire an architect that hates shops, change all plans again to | add shops. | | * Start paying contractors by time instead of by job, they start | stealing. | | * because of all the changes : stairs don't fit, cable management | is broken, firesafety doesn't work. | | * Don't fuck with german firesafety, they won't approve it, and | you can't bribe them. | | 16 years later: opening with a capacity that is far below what's | needed. | bobthepanda wrote: | Step 1 is not necessarily the worst idea, but it depends on you | hiring competent people and managers (and it sounds like | everything that followed was a result of this failure.) | | The opposite end of the spectrum is CAHSR, which hired | thousands of consultants with a staff of 180 and with very | little to show for it | https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-california-hi... | rover0 wrote: | Both did it themselves instead of public procurement/public | tender. | bobthepanda wrote: | At least the initial hiring of consultants was done | publicly. (Subcontracting is usually not done via public | tender, since it is assumed that the main contractor's bid | includes the complexity and cost of whatever subcontractors | they might need, and requiring public tender for everything | would slow things down significantly.) | | The problem was that actually following the advice to keep | minimal in-house staff who could check the work was really | stupid, no matter who would win such tenders. | 77pt77 wrote: | I went to BER 1 month after opening. | | My terminal looked and felt like a prefab chicken coop. | devoutsalsa wrote: | Human fire alarms... | | _Hans hovering near a kitchen on a new cook 's first day._ | | "Du verbrennst das Schnitzel! <utters fire alarm noises>" | Pamar wrote: | This was posted twice already here, the oldest copy is from 2019: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19765193 - wasn't able to | find a date for the podcast itself but maybe it would be better | to put [201?] in the title? | Linosaurus wrote: | 18 Feb 2018, for ep1, according to Spotify. | vesinisa wrote: | This podcast is outdated, right? It talks about the Brandenburg | airport as if it had not finished. The deeply troubled airport is | in fact open and in full service since 2020. | chrisseaton wrote: | > in full service | | Have you been there? It's a bit of a weird ghost-town. | Definitely not quite in 'full service.' | pizza234 wrote: | I've been there a short time ago, and had an approximately 30 | minutes of security queue, so I wouldn't classify it as ghost | town :) | anamexis wrote: | As Berlin's only airport, people are obviously flying out | of it. But huge portions of the airport are very obviously | unfinished. | floydian10 wrote: | It is, but I live in Berlin and it's an absolutely shitty | airport. | Narretz wrote: | There are multiple episodes and the latest deals with the | opening / pandemic fallout | Moto7451 wrote: | It's in fact not finished. If you go to the website you will | find out they have only opened three of the five terminals. | They took the old neighboring airport and have temporarily | named that "Terminal 5." | | I was just there on Friday and it was amazing how unfinished | things are. Panels missing, no seating near some gates. | | It's a very nice mall that happens to have airplane gates. | | Really though, the airport's homepage sells it the best. | | https://berlin-airport-brandenburg.com/ | | > Shopping Therapy at Berlin Airport Both Terminals 1 and 5 | (Terminal 2 is not operational yet) offer a "shopping heaven", | large shopping areas where you can find whatever you may look | for. Last-minute presents, famous brands, local stores, BER | airport has all the answers depending on your desires! Are you | travelling on a budget and want to avoid unnecessary expenses? | Take a walk and go for window shopping. Still a pleasing and | relaxing experience! | vesinisa wrote: | Wait, they actually have only one terminal open but call a | separate airport "terminal 5"? That's clever .. | merb wrote: | well the seperate airport is basically on the other side | and was already in full rename at around ~2018. (I was | there and it was crammed...) | michaelcampbell wrote: | I've read that Seal Team 6 was named that to throw off | foreign adversaries to think that the US _had_ 6 teams at | the time. | permo-w wrote: | I once spent some time in Berlin train station waiting for a | long-distance train. it seemed like the layout of the entire | train station had been rearranged without changing any of the | sign posts. it was like a quite mundane nightmare | AlexAffe wrote: | Can we take a moment and ponder over why the title is censored? | Why are we all okay with this? Who are we protecting, who are we | trying to deceive? Why is it fine with everyone, that a youtube | SNL skit is bleeped out? What THE FUCK has gotten into us? Either | use the word, or don't use it. Show the video, or don't show it. | We should all stand tall for our (fought for) rights, this isn't | the fucking 60s. | dang wrote: | Profanity isn't an issue on HN. We tend to override Bowdlerisms | and did that with the title above a while ago. | | Your comment, though, falls in the category of what this site | guideline asks people not to post: | | " _Please don 't complain about tangential annoyances--things | like article or website formats, name collisions, or back- | button breakage. They're too common to be interesting._" - | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html | | The point isn't that these things aren't annoying, it's that | changing the topic of the thread to one of these annoyances is | a big step down in discussion quality, so we should all try to | resist. | [deleted] | macspoofing wrote: | >this isn't the fucking 60s. | | Are you sure? | | These things are cyclical. For example, I would say we are way | more prudish and puritan than we were in the 90s. | ricardonunez wrote: | My observation about that is that it is not a cycle but a | constant motion. It is a consequence of pushing boundaries. | We push and at some point we push back after a certain line | has been crossed. We will probably find a balance at some | point, then probably push forward again. | oDot wrote: | I see you haven't been on Tiktok much | bobthepanda wrote: | I mean, it really depends on what circles you are in, in | our algorithmic-gatekeeped world. | | There was a bit of a movement in TikTok to get freaky stuff | out of Pride Parades, for example, because the younger | generation of LGBT has portions that are more prudish. | [deleted] | besnn00 wrote: | While I agree with your thought, I think a little verbal | restraint would be better. Profanities add nothing of substance | to discussions. | samcrawford wrote: | An amusing side effect of this is that even if I search for the | exact title on Spotify, their search does not find the podcast. | | I eventually found it on Spotify by searching for Berlin | airport. | | To save others from Spotify's search: | https://open.spotify.com/show/1dcDdTZgwicbxkb7OgNLo2?si=tGB6... | Freak_NL wrote: | Ooh! One of my bugbears. I'm not sure if the following is a | recent phenomenon, but I get the impression that 'f**k' -- | that's two stars -- is becoming more common too; for when | 'f*ck' just seems too rude. | | One or two stars, it's an interesting phenomenon. There are | cases where you might need to censor a 'fuck' because you are | citing someone (or a work named thus) in a medium that doesn't | allow it, but most of it seems to be self-censorship. | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | Easy: political corruption masquerading as incompetence and bad | luck, since our leaders have absolutely zero accountability, so | they have no incentive to actually do anything right and can | instead represent the interests of various businesses and | interest groups using your tax money, and once their political | career is over, they can get on the payroll as execs or | consultants by the same business they helped get rich using | taxpayer money. | m_fayer wrote: | Yep. This is Germany, especially in the East, I've been | dismayed to find. The destruction of the "sober and efficient" | branding can't come soon enough. | javajosh wrote: | Maybe technology, and a little behavioral modification, can | help. For example, you can make an agreement with yourself: | along with any online statement about endemic corruption, bad | luck, lack of accountability, I will do something to reverse | this trend I do not like. I will post the names of the | politicians, businesses, consultants, responsible for a | specific bad outcome. I think that would both strengthen your | message and make you feel less helpless. | fock wrote: | On a meta-level I'd also be very interested, how many people | actually now about corruption of the smallest governing body | where they live (and can name some members which got voted | in). Given the fleeting lifestyle propagated here and by | American laws (hey, there's another job, let's move), it's no | wonder the government is captured by landed elites. It's the | peoples job to change that and yes, settling down somewhere | helps. | [deleted] | [deleted] | franze wrote: | I just landed in BER 20 minutes ago and I am just amazed how bad | the signage is | | The signs tiny and all in the same red/white color. The monitors | tiny and sparse. | | The placement of the tickets for the trains placed where you do | not pass. And just good luck if you go down the wrong stairway | and then reached the nowhere, without any visible signs. | | They cared about the CI way more than about fast passenger | throughput. | bobthepanda wrote: | The same architect who designed Tegel did BER. | | Sometimes, past performance is not indicative of the future. | vishnugupta wrote: | I've been to some bad airports but by God Tegel is by far the | worst I've ever been to. | amadeuspagel wrote: | Second system syndrome? | probably_wrong wrote: | If you listen to the podcast they explain that it wasn't his | fault. | | Spoilers: he designed BER for fast passenger transit, just | like Tegel, but the airport authorities wanted more shopping | space. So they crammed as many shops as they could in | detriment of the passenger experience. And then there's the | situation with the rise of low-cost airlines who weren't | allowed to use the jetway... | | I definitely recommend listening to the whole series. It's | really well done and a must-listen for anyone with interest | in project management. | bobthepanda wrote: | This glosses over some stuff that is definitely his fault. | | The first issue that caused the issues, the fire system, | was designed to suck air underground, because the architect | did not want a fire system to obstruct his roof, never mind | that smoke and hot air naturally rise. | https://www.thegermanreview.de/p/the-real-story-behind- | berli... | dzikimarian wrote: | Well Tegel with multiple security checks during transfers | isn't pinnacle of good communication either. | inferiorhuman wrote: | The worst for security that I've ever experienced was | Amsterdam Schiphol. Absolute chaos at land side security | and Americans on American airlines get extra inspection. | When I was there they did the extra screening at the gate, | but they've gone back and forth a bunch on where that's | supposed to happen. | | Tegel OTOH was super quick albeit poorly connected to the | rest of Berlin. | bobthepanda wrote: | Security checks didn't really exist when Tegel opened in | 1974. So the architect can at least be excused for not | knowing about future requirements. | anamexis wrote: | I don't know, given the experience at Tegel, I'd say past | performance is very indicative of future. What a terrible | airport that was. | arez wrote: | what? Tegel was the best airport ever, you could literally | be there 20min before check-in and still get your plane. | Nowadays I have to arrive 3-4hrs before, tegel was a | blessing a true king of all airports, all hail tegel | kolinko wrote: | > Nowadays I have to arrive 3-4hrs before | | I flew through the new Berlin airport 2 times this week, | and had no issues going through security and to the | gates. That 3-4hrs in your case seems absurdly long - | were there crazy lines at the checkin or sth? | rsynnott wrote: | It was... not great if you were coming from outside | Schengen. I was there maybe three times, coming from | Dublin; twice, only one of the passport desks was staffed | (they also had the machines, but I never saw them in | working order). Both times, of course, someone ahead of | me in the queue had some problem, and it took an hour to | get through passport control. Never seen this at any | other airport. | | Schonefeld was better, though getting there involved | taking Ryanair... | m_fayer wrote: | Schonefeld definitely won the award for most disgusting | airport bathrooms in western EU, and most kafka-esque | narrow winding hallways that may or may not be taking you | where you want to go. | bbarnett wrote: | _Nowadays I have to arrive 3-4hrs before_ | | This is true many places, although I tend to show with a | tighter timetable myself. | | But it's so absurd, so silly. It's actually faster to | drive from Ottawa to Toronto(4 to 5 hr drive) than take a | plane, and cheaper.. even with current fuel costs, too. | | What a way to ruin a mode of travel. | vanviegen wrote: | To me it's absurd that flying such a short distance | apparently was an attractive option (to some) until | recently. | bobthepanda wrote: | Usually, most small flights of that type are connections | onward. It's usually good for passengers because all | other things being equal the security procedures at | smaller airports, the traffic etc. is a lot less bad. | bbarnett wrote: | It's about 450km, which is between 4 and 5 hours, traffic | at each city depending.. | | A propeller plane shines here. If boarding is quick, and | there is no customs as it is in country, and you just | carry on? You save time, and it's better than 20 to 50 | people driving independantly. | | A plane can also fly straight too, so it can take even | 1/3 of the time to get there. | | Which is why boarding slow downs are so sad. | kolinko wrote: | Unless there was a crazy line that day to that single | security spot and you had to jump the line or risk | getting late for your plane. | | I flew through Tegel a dosen times and it was a horrible | experience each time. Not sure which was worse - the old | terminal, or the new barrack added on to the first one. | | Also, I've seen multiple airports that allowed you to be | 20 min before boarding and still get through. On Warsaw | Chopin, which is 2x bigger than Tagel, I can arrive 10 | min before boarding and still make it on time. With most | airports the size of Tagel as well. | | Having said all that - the architecture was nice indeed, | and I'm sure it was very functional when it was built and | there was 4x less traffic, planes were 30% smaller and | the security was way lighter. | dekhn wrote: | Is that the one that had the really awkward bathrooms? | djhworld wrote: | I found it quite novel, checking in and then immediately | going through security to your gate behind. | | A lot of airports are vast complexes and takes you a while | to get from A - B, Tegel was quite quaint in comparison! | | Admittedly for a major/global city - it was too small. | ginko wrote: | >They cared about the CI way more than about fast passenger | throughput. | | Continuous integration? | keyle wrote: | Captain Immunization | labster wrote: | selimthegrim wrote: | The passengers having lost the confidence of the airport, | the airport has decided to dissolve them and elect others. | therein wrote: | Tao3300 wrote: | Clamato Infusion | yeetsFromHellL3 wrote: | dean177 wrote: | Consumer intent | kabdib wrote: | Chaos Incarnate | davedx wrote: | Crusty Inmates | TedDoesntTalk wrote: | Cat Immutability | jansan wrote: | sgustard wrote: | Crustacean independence | Rebelgecko wrote: | Customer intelligence | sdoering wrote: | Corporate Identity | wuyishan wrote: | Corporate Identity | biztos wrote: | Arguably off topic, but having suffered through BER several | times, I have a few tips to share which might reduce your own | suffering. | | First: post-security you will find some of the most disgusting | food ever served in an airport, but hey it's also expensive and | the servers don't hide how much they hate being there! However, | there is a little shop near the left-side stairs that sells | better alcohol as well as soft drinks, and various food including | (last I checked) pretty decent sandwiches. Just get provisions | there and have a seat near your gate. | | Second: when the security lines are moving too slowly it's often | worth trying the faraway one, which is actually outside the main | hall. It's so insanely counterintuitive, it's the last one to get | backed up. | | Third: on arrival you may want a train, and it's not at all | obvious what one goes where nor even which ticket you need. You | can use a standard subway ticket with any train departing from | the airport, and you can buy that ticket in advance with the BVG | app. Oh, and the S-Bahn is probably not the train you want if | you're reading this comment. Just go to Hauptbahnhof and reorient | from there, IMO. | | _Guten Flug!_ | hocuspocus wrote: | 3. is nice compared to most European cities, even the train to | MUC is nearly 4x more expensive if I remember well. | | And I've missed the last RE to HbF a few times (EasyJet being | late often) but the last S-Bahn runs surprisingly late. Same in | the morning, you can take the very first U-Bahn at the dawn of | the day among drunk people going home, and do the last bit by | bus. I never needed a taxi. | | When I lived there, TXL was still operating, and showing up 3 | minutes before the gate opened was an also interesting | experience. But I understand people in the neighborhood being | fed up it closed down 10 years late. | kriz9 wrote: | I would add two more suggestions here: 1) If you have 50EUR to | spare always take the taxy to the city center. If you take the | train you will hate this airport as much as the one at | Frankfurt. You can thank me later. 2) Use security lanes 1 or | 5. They are the furthest and less busy. Everyone usually just | queues up by the nearest one. Don't trust the indicators. | sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: | Is it possible to subscribe to this podcast on RSS? | | Or things on itunes in general? | abawany wrote: | I was able to subscribe using Google Podcasts. | yunohn wrote: | Here you go - https://www.radiospaetkauf.com/feed/ | | I used https://getrssfeed.com/, though /feed is a standard path | for RSS. | sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: | Thank you!! | hammock wrote: | Dunno how, but should be yes. Podcasts in general are | distributed to Spotify, iTunes, etc via RSS | jansan wrote: | One other thing is how they were lying about progress. We had | tickets to land on the new airport in 2013! The shops had ordered | their inventory, bus companies and taxi companies had purchased | new vehicles, and the mayor of Berlin, Klaus Wowereit acted as if | completions was still on schedule. What an absolute desaster. | | On the bright side, as long as the BER could not open, the | international aviation show ILA was absolutely amazing, because | they were able to use the infrastructure without having to care | for ongoing air traffic. | noasaservice wrote: | You really want to fuck up an airport? Do the following, in no | particular order. | | 1. Spoof GPS, as in emulate the constellation. Randomize it every | few minutes. Move transmitter around. | | 2. Plain old jam GPS. You can buy cheap and nasty GPS jammers. If | you're good with electronics, hook em up to a 555 timer and | trigger to prevent a lock but like 5% duty cycle. | | 3. Spoof ADS-B to create thousands or 10's of thousands of planes | in airspace. Most systems will die from not enough ram to handle | these. If they do survive, then they'll get alerts from | everything everywhere. | | 4. Jam ADS-B. Not as terrible, but still bad. | | 5. Build a Gnuradio flow that watches 117.975-137 MHz and | selectively emits white noise on channels when in use. Kills | comms. | throw93232 wrote: | There are like 20k javelin missiles on black market now. | Spoofing radio is innocent child game. | midnightclubbed wrote: | Activate the ILS landing system. Recalibrate sea level - | _minus_ 200 feet. | somishere wrote: | I have another method. Let everyone go during covid and then | attempt to re-hire them all on less generous terms after the | fact. Looking at you DUB (and no doubt many others). | Jaruzel wrote: | Heathrow definitely. | | Yet still the UK holiday companies are endlessly pimping last | minute summer deals with the knowledge that flights through | July and August are going to be totally messed up. | number6 wrote: | Seemingly all of them across Europe done that. There are talks | to hire experienced people from Turkey to help with the workers | shortage. My guess, most people saw the airport job as a | jumping board and just needed a push to quit and never come | back. | rocqua wrote: | Importing Turkish workers to handle Schiphol is going to | cause a clusterfuck in Dutch politics through the | islamophobes. The Turks were the biggest initial group of | immigrants that caused backlash here. | sschueller wrote: | Swiss airlines have the same issue. Pay is absolute garbage and | some that have been there for 20 years are actually making less | than they did back then. Many left and switched cariers during | covid. It's an absolute shit show and if it keep going like | this they will go bankrupt again. This time I hope we finally | learn and have the government juat take it over or let it die | off. | okr wrote: | Or just double the prizes and raise the wages. | GekkePrutser wrote: | Schiphol same thing... | | People now have to wait for hours, hundreds of flights are | cancelled daily and they still refuse to pay a reasonable wage. | Of course the CEO blames everything on others and allots | himself a big bonus as usual. | | And society bailed out these guys in a big way during Corona... | Next time we should just let them fall. | martinald wrote: | Not really in the UK. There wasn't any special package for | airports/airlines, just the standard furlough scheme. Plus | the international travel restrictions were absolutely | ridiculous and literally changing day to day (for absolutely | no benefit, as nowhere in Europe was running zero covid, so | it literally may have saved a few days of virus growth). | mytailorisrich wrote: | In the UK the standard furlough scheme was as generous as | it gets. | martinald wrote: | For most sectors yes it was. For airlines and airports it | wasn't as helpful, as the sector had very low demand | throughout the whole pandemic, minus a couple of 'false | start' months. | | Compare this to busses and trains who got furlough PLUS a | very generous package to cover nearly all of their | running costs. | mytailorisrich wrote: | You seem to be talking about aid paid to companies. | | The furlough scheme allowed companies to keep employees | without having to pay them (they were paid by | government). If airlines and airports were so short- | sighted to still layoff plenty of staff then they should | now be made to bear the full cost. | durnygbur wrote: | > to re-hire them all on less generous terms after the fact | | How executives get away with these decisions... and it's Europe | wide situation if not worldwide. Of course from the perspective | of executives the COVID era was a success because they fetched | government bailouts, then diluted the companies' shares. Great | success! bonuses followed. | odiroot wrote: | Best way: close the actual city airport that was functioning like | a well-oiled machine and was loved by the city population. Even | better, do it against their explicit wishes with a shady decision | that reeks of corruption. | | Any follow-up to that will always end up being "fucked up". | cyberpunk wrote: | I mean, sort of. The A gates which all had the separate | security for each gate worked great. You could rock up 25 mins | before your BA flight and just cruise right onto the plane. | | That stopped there though, did you ever fly from B or C? | Tolerable enough if you're catching a commuter to Munich or | something at 7am, but once it's filled with tourists it was | appalling, far too small, far too crowded. | | Living in the west of the city, I'm quite happy having the | airport moved further away for noise reasons though :} | odiroot wrote: | I flew a lot from there, because I lived 10 minutes away from | the airport (by bus). | | I mostly flew from C (cheap EU flights), sometimes from A and | D (Asia, UK). I don't recall ever flying from B. | | I agree that A gates was a sweet spot but even C was great. | The airport optimised for getting you out of there ASAP, both | for departures and arrivals. | | I usually managed to get from the plane to my living room | within 30 minutes (just with a carry-on, naturally). | bobthepanda wrote: | At least my experience visiting Berlin, A was a bit of a | nightmare to fly non-Schengen from. Totally disorganized | since having only security in the little gate area was | already a tight fit. | ben_w wrote: | Regarding noise, something I recorded under the flight path | before TXL closed: https://youtu.be/OIu-dDKCBoI | ido wrote: | Tegel was only well functioning for inner-EU flights. Every | time I had to fly to Israel via either Tegel or Schonefeld it | was a huge hassle that required going through some obviously- | late-addition terminal somewhere far and inconvenient. | | BER was also a shitshow but the old airports badly needed | replacement. I've flown through BER 3 times so far and all of | them went fine and much more convenient than the old ones (with | the exception of inner EU trips which I anyway prefer to do via | train instead when possible). | chrisseaton wrote: | > functioning like a well-oiled machine and was loved by the | city population | | You can't possibly mean Tegel? I've never met anyone who has | used Tegel who didn't think it was clearly the worst airport in | the world. | | I used to literally avoid doing any business in Berlin because | Tegel was so painful. | pizza234 wrote: | > You can't possibly mean Tegel? I've never met anyone who | has used Tegel who didn't think it was clearly the worst | airport in the world. | | I've frequently used TXL and it was actually my favorite. | However, I can see why at least some people hated it. While | A-gates boardings were very fast (for which reason, I | personally used to find it very convenient), they were also | very crammed, which surely bothered a lot of people. | | The experience of A<>C was very different. I didn't have a | particular bad memory of C, but it didn't have services, | which can be annoying when there's lots to wait. | | It was also convenient for a two-legs connection (since one | typically had to take a metro, then the bus), since the | second leg (bus) was short. But again, some people may frown | upon anything that is not directly connected like Heathrow. | inferiorhuman wrote: | I liked Tegel as well, but it's too small for a busy | capital. It's nice that Heathrow has the tube right at the | one terminal but there's still way too much walking | involved. The worst, IMO, by far was Madrid. It took me | about 40 minutes of walking to get from the metro to the | gate. | Tainnor wrote: | People who grew up in Berlin tend to have become enamored a | bit with Tegel. I moved to Berlin later and always hated | Tegel (though never as much as I've hated Schonefeld which | was a kafkaesque nightmare). | | It's true that Tegel was conveniently located and that | boarding could be quite fast in terminal A. But if your | flight got delayed after you were through security you would | be stuck in a crammed space and your only opportunities for | food would be overpriced Pretzels. And the whole thing was | just outrageously ugly. | m_fayer wrote: | Yeah terminal A was quick and easy if everything went | perfectly. If security ever got backed up, as happened | often with flights to the US, you'd have long lines | spilling into the main circular hall. More amusingly, the | lack of table space on which to unpack your | computer/toiletries/etc resulted in people hurriedly | extracting possessions in an awkward crouch and then | clutching the unwieldy bundles to their chest while waiting | their turn. Quite a spectacle. | odiroot wrote: | You have a very weird circle of associates. Schonefeld was | always _the bad airport_ and now the Brandenburg airport took | over that title. | | Tegel was always the quick and convenient one. | chrisseaton wrote: | I thought Tegel was notoriously the very worst airport in | the world? The facilities were _atrocious_. A security | setup like cattle pens. It was like a bad bus stop - grim | and dark and raw concrete. It didn't even particularly have | good routes did it? | yc-kraln wrote: | Hi, Tegel was my favorite airport ever, domestic and | international. | chrisseaton wrote: | > and international | | Well this one really does confuse me as it didn't really | fly many international places? | TedShiller wrote: | > I've never met anyone who has used Tegel who didn't think | it was clearly the worst airport in the world | | Well, you've met one (or actually, many) now. So you won't be | able to use that line moving forward. | ben_w wrote: | I loved how compact Tegel terminal A was, it was like | London City Airport rolled into a ring. The other terminals | I used (I never bothered memorising which ones) were | generic and forgettable. | xcambar wrote: | > I used to literally avoid doing any business in Berlin | because Tegel was so painful. | | I don't believe you. No business owner is their right mind | would believe that you avoided doing business anywhere based | on airport opinions. | bryanrasmussen wrote: | Unless it should turn out that not every type of business | in the world is like every other type, and there are | significant enough differences in some branch of a business | that you might structure your business based on airport | options. | | Like a traveling salesman maybe. | [deleted] | chrisseaton wrote: | Why? Invited to a conference in Barlin? Hmm no thanks | really can't be bothered with the airports. Conference in | Frankfurt? Yeah no problem airport is easy. | durnygbur wrote: | > close the actual city airport that was functioning like a | well-oiled | | You mean which Berlin's airport? As Berlin-native for few years | I used the Schonefeld numerous times... and the staff there was | some mixture of rude primitive sadists. Behaving towards | passengers as if they're taking revenge for something. I just | want to fly out of here, you cunt. | odiroot wrote: | Well, Tempelhof closed ages ago so there was only one city | airport. | | Schonefeld is not in Berlin. | durnygbur wrote: | > Tempelhof closed ages ago | | Too many too important entities invested in real estate on | the Tempelhof's approach routes to keep it operating. Now | the very area of Tempelhof is pure goldmine. Tegel is next. | | > Schonefeld is not in Berlin. | | Neither BER is in Berlin. | morelisp wrote: | It's just Berliner Schnauze, don't take it personally. | raverbashing wrote: | "functioning like a well-oiled machine" No, not really, no. | | Actually the newer (low-cost) terminals worked better than the | original one. No frills and less crowded. | | The main terminal had an interesting design but it was slightly | better than SXF (the one that had communist efficiency - take | it as you will) | looperhacks wrote: | I think TXL should have stayed open and know that BER is a | terrible airport, but "well-oiled machine" and "loved by the | city population" is a stretch. | okr wrote: | BER works just fine, if the problems get resolved. The last | time, i got picked up by someone. Walked a little, stepped | outside, into the car, and out of the airport area. Done. | TedShiller wrote: | > BER works just fine, if the problems get resolved | | They've been saying that for a very, very long time | aldebran wrote: | Frankfurt airport is marginally better. Flights stop in the | middle of the runway. Take a bus. Buses are late. Walk for what | feels like eternity. No regard for accessibility. I've met | multiple senior citizens frail, waiting for their wheel chairs | and worried that they're going to miss their connecting flights. | | As good as German engineering is, the airport infra is equally | worse. | | It's a shame. I like flying lufthansa. They have the shortest | flight times to Asia from the west coast. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-07-03 23:00 UTC)