[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How to keep my daughter busy while tickling ...
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       Ask HN: How to keep my daughter busy while tickling her curiosity
        
       It's the start of the holidays. My daughter is 11 y/o and I'm
       currently unemployed. I would like to do some projects with her
       that may interest her/us while enjoying the time together. Any
       suggestions/ ideas would be great!
        
       Author : mquarks
       Score  : 307 points
       Date   : 2022-07-03 06:38 UTC (1 days ago)
        
       | Barrera wrote:
       | You didn't mention anything she's interested in currently.
       | 
       | Whatever it is follow it, no matter how frivolous or irrelevant
       | to future success these may seem. Participate. Really jump into
       | it in an unreasonable way.
       | 
       | Things your children get really interested in have a way of
       | becoming interesting to an open-minded parent. Note that these
       | interest can come and go at the drop of a hat. That's part of the
       | fun!
        
       | memcg wrote:
       | I was unemployed for 10 months in 1998, so my kids were both
       | under 10. My now nearly 30 year old asked me yesterday to go to
       | the zoo like we did back then. Washington DC area had (has?) lots
       | of free things to do. They both remember fishing, hiking, biking,
       | exploring public transportation and just spending time together.
        
         | sq1020 wrote:
         | That's amazing! I have two under the age of five and I hope
         | they will still want to hang out with me when they're adults.
         | Sounds like you're a great parent .
        
       | guidoiaquinti wrote:
       | I've just found this
       | https://twitter.com/TansuYegen/status/1543534003520770052 in my
       | Twitter feed. I hope it can be useful.
        
       | nickysielicki wrote:
       | If she's into science and physics, I think that's a great age to
       | get her interested in radio.
       | 
       | I recommend starting with an RTLSDR ($30 on Amazon) and a
       | homemade dipole. You can use an open source program called GQRX
       | to listen to it. This will be fun to just listen to local FM
       | radio, air traffic controllers, EMS/Police in your area if it's
       | not encrypted.
       | 
       | If she seems interested and you want to go a bit further, buy a
       | block frequency upconverter (there's one on Amazon called "ham it
       | up" for ~$30) and make a large antenna for the 20M ham band.
       | You'll be able to pick up people from all over the country, and
       | if you do a good job on the antenna, all over the world.
       | 
       | Most importantly, it's fun and you get to work with your hands.
       | You get to have fun trying to get ropes over trees in your yard
       | to hang the antenna high enough. You get to deal with the problem
       | of measuring out 60 feet of wire and cutting it. You have to
       | figure out what trees to hang the antenna on so that it's
       | pointing where you want to listen (not directly East, but
       | northeast due to the curvature of the earth, Google maps "measure
       | distance" can help give a vector). This is all done with a cheap
       | run of coax and speaker wire, no more than $40 in materials.
       | 
       | If she's into it, you can get your ham radio technician license
       | for a $15 fee, and you can get two way radios on Amazon for the
       | VHF/UHF bands for $20 (baofeng UV5R). Fun to study for.
        
       | informisfun wrote:
       | When my daughter was a little younger than yours we took turns
       | writing and playing interactive fiction adventures. My first
       | story began with a neighborhood walk. You find what appears to be
       | a lost dog. You want to return it to its owner. Something is
       | written on its collar but it's frightened of you and retreats
       | when you try to get close to read it. How will you earn its
       | trust?
       | 
       | http://inform7.com
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | a video game like Cities Skylines might not be the worst idea
       | ever. I remember being a 10/11 year old and playing the original
       | Simcity for PC...
        
       | Pakdef wrote:
        
       | bobobob420 wrote:
       | Fiction books
        
       | wryip wrote:
       | I started building one of these small wooden boats with my son
       | (9) in our garden: https://duckworks.com/mouse-plans/. He's very
       | engaged in the project, and receives lots of cheers from friends
       | and family. The book "Ultra simple boat building" explains all
       | the steps in detail.
        
       | otikik wrote:
       | Start making a list of things. It doesn't have to be definitive,
       | just a way to start the conversation.
       | 
       | Once you have a long enough list, pull up a calendar and pick
       | dates for doing these things. Keep options open (e.g. don't buy
       | tickets to that concert too early) because you will have to
       | adjust the plan.
       | 
       | Then hang the list and the calendar and review/revisit maybe once
       | per week. Add/remove activities from the list, plan them on the
       | calendar. Encourage her to decorate or personalise the plan.
       | 
       | This serves multiple purposes. It involves her in the decision
       | making. Teaches how to organise time and how to plan.
       | Anticipation should build up naturally. She will like a plan that
       | she has done personally (IKEA effect)
       | 
       | Have fun together! This opportunity to spend time with her will
       | be increasingly rare, treasure it
        
       | jeroenvlek wrote:
       | You are unemployed, so I cannot judge your financial means, but I
       | keep seeing this pop up in my feeds and it might be cool for you
       | and your daughter to build together: https://www.kiwico.com/
        
       | tyrrvk wrote:
       | If you are in the US - public libraries are a wonderful resource
       | for kids to visit.
        
       | known wrote:
       | Guide her to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HowStuffWorks
        
       | Metacelsus wrote:
       | Kerbal Space Program!
       | 
       | https://xkcd.com/1356/
        
       | bjornlouser wrote:
       | If she has any interest in music then show her MuseScore
        
       | FerretFred wrote:
       | Maybe look at building up manual skills if possible. When my
       | daughter was 11 y/o I as doing a lot of DIY plumbing in the house
       | and I taught her to cut and bend (copper) pipes, and solder pipe
       | joints. We used a gas torch, much to the horror of my S.O, but it
       | was a useful skill learned and she got really good at it.
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | I think learning to "think with your hands" is not a recognized
         | academic skill, but yet there's something real about it.
         | 
         | If at all possible, teach her to ride a bike and to actually be
         | able to get around on one if your locale is suitable for it.
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | My kids (11, 8, 5) all ride bikes, and are competent enough
           | to ride on the road on quieter streets. I've found it to be a
           | wonderful bonding experience, and also a growth opportunity
           | since they're learning to get around, read signs, navigate,
           | plus it's laying the groundwork for later independence.
        
           | MengerSponge wrote:
           | One of my professors (a Distinguished University Professor
           | and fellow of the American Physical Society) selects for
           | "ability to think with your hands". Successful
           | experimentalists know that building things that work is
           | _hard_ , and having experience with plumbing, soldering, etc.
           | really helps.
        
       | Spooky23 wrote:
       | Go fishing. There's something about hanging out by the water and
       | having a good time that is just special. Catching fish doesn't
       | really matter.
       | 
       | Also, play cards. My kid and cousins are running a rummy
       | "tournament" as I type.
        
       | Gatsky wrote:
       | I've heard this from a couple of people - get her to dictate a
       | story to you while you type it up (assuming you can type faster
       | than she can). If it is long enough then you can send it off to a
       | book printing service and get 5 copies or something. It costs a
       | bit but the kids really get a kick out of it. You can design the
       | cover art with her as well if she is into that.
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | If you have any pets, make them the main characters in the
         | story. Anthropomorphize then.
        
       | rickspencer3 wrote:
       | I had great luck with Sparkfun Inventor's Kit. It came with an
       | Arduino, a bunch of sensors and effectors and a manual of
       | projects today went step by step to learn electronics and the
       | Arduino system.
        
       | wahnfrieden wrote:
       | Swift Playgrounds
        
       | throwawayffffas wrote:
       | Make a board game or pen and paper RPG. There's lot of stuff to
       | do, art, rules, making up lore.
        
       | rawbot wrote:
       | Maybe the rest of HN has a similar, better option, but I could
       | recommend LEGO Mindstorms. Eleven would be a good age to start
       | getting curious about robots and automation. You should of
       | course, help her with it, as it may be too complex for her to
       | handle alone at the start.
       | 
       | It is pricey new, but you could get an older version used for
       | cheaper.
       | 
       | There's also Nintendo Labo, for a similar, less expensive
       | version.
        
         | ArnoVW wrote:
         | LEGO Mindstorms is great, but it's amazingly expensive.
         | 
         | They recently released LEGO Boost, which has some limitations
         | wrt Mindstorms, but you won't notice it unless you're doing
         | advanced stuff. Moreover, it has a great app. And it's one
         | third of the price of Mindstorms.
        
         | n4bz0r wrote:
         | Not quite the same thing, but, speaking of expensive parts.
         | This post seems like the place to share the findings.
         | 
         | As a kid, I would absolutely love to have some of the
         | Lego(-compatible) motors [0] that are now available on the
         | Chinese market for a few bucks a piece.
         | 
         | Some of the 'regular' sets [1] look quite tempting, too. In the
         | bang for the buck department, at least.
         | 
         | [0] https://aliexpress.com/item/1005004221490793.html
         | 
         | [1] https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003548518388.html
        
       | paulcole wrote:
       | Give her a can of beans!
        
       | InfiniteRand wrote:
       | 11 years is a good age for projects, like building a toy city
       | from cardboard boxes, writing a long story, building a puppet
       | theatre etc. When I was 11, I half-started a lot of projects like
       | that, but usually lost attention pretty quick. I think things
       | would be different if my dad was working on it with me.
       | 
       | Or to take something I did actually do with my father and
       | enjoyed, going for long walks together.
        
       | ericol wrote:
       | I don't think what to do is as important as to how to do it. As
       | you are unemployed, you probably have a lot of free time, while
       | at the same time having to do house chores.
       | 
       | What I would do, is establish a more or less organized schedule,
       | but letting her know that you will set apart a certain amount of
       | time daily to play with her. What to do with then, is up to her.
       | 
       | Also, try to get her involved with the house chores. As long as
       | it doesn't feel like work - obviously don't make her work -
       | she'll also enjoy those tasks, while at the same time learning,
       | getting used to it, and enjoying her time with you.
        
       | Wowfunhappy wrote:
       | I don't know if you're looking for something less technology
       | focused, but--have you ever seen Scratch? I teach classes in
       | Scratch to kids professionally, and I happen to think it's a
       | really excellent tool. Kids enjoy it a lot, and it teaches a mode
       | of thinking that I consider essential for the modern world.
       | 
       | https://scratch.mit.edu/
       | 
       | My company's curriculum is all public. I frankly don't love all
       | of the projects, but some are pretty darn good. A few of my
       | favorites:
       | 
       | Ghostbusters (Level 1):
       | https://coding.space/launchpad/GqrsER3FnGgSZwyTYgkkDdyyty92-...
       | 
       | Apple Catcher (Level 2):
       | https://coding.space/launchpad/703c1a8d-0c55-4bcb-b3ef-832ee...
       | 
       | Flappy Bird (Level 3):
       | https://coding.space/launchpad/703c1a8d-0c55-4bcb-b3ef-832ee...
       | 
       | This isn't necessarily the be-all end-all way to teach Scratch
       | (there are also official tutorials you can check out), but
       | especially if you as the parent have some coding knowledge, they
       | might be a fun way to learn together. Our philosophy is to
       | provide a goal and some direction (for students who need it)
       | without ever saying exactly what to do. This forces students to
       | learn how to figure things out on their own.
       | 
       | Tiny note, notwithstanding my earlier praise of Scratch, it has
       | one very frustrating design quirk that you might want to be aware
       | of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31932147
        
       | vivegi wrote:
       | Play.
       | 
       | I remember playing with my father who passed away a few years ago
       | simple word games. We called that Word-building, a game where one
       | player says a word and the next one has to say to word starting
       | with the last letter of the previous word eg: Apple, Egg, Goose,
       | Elephant and so on. Occasionally my father would say an uncommon
       | word and when I asked him what it was, he casually pointed me to
       | the dictionary, asked me to bring it and taught me how to use it.
       | 
       | Another game we played then is what we called Name-Place-Animal-
       | Thing where we pick a letter and then have to say a proper name,
       | a place name, an animal and a thing that starts with that letter.
       | For eg: V -> Victor, Virginia, Viper and Vase.
       | 
       | Kids that age love to learn new words and concepts.
       | 
       | Paper-folding and origami are also great to spend time together.
        
       | faster wrote:
       | My daughter was a little younger than that when we bought a pile
       | of dead DVD drives and disassembled them. Then we build a little
       | driver circuit and hooked a laser diode to it. She was so excited
       | to come home and take those drives apart after school. She
       | learned about how things come apart, the importance of eye
       | protection, how to use basic hand tools, and a little bit about
       | electronics (I am self-taught and my knowledge is super uneven so
       | I'm not the best teacher for that).
        
       | nrjames wrote:
       | I did the Mark Rober Creative Engineering class with my daughters
       | and we all had a blast. We made a apple slicing guillotine, a
       | s'more assembly machine, and a robotic arduino-controlled bird.
       | We finished the class 18 months ago and they still talk about it.
       | They were 7 and 9 yrs old at the time. The key is to not do it
       | all at once but to pace out the videos and exercises and truly do
       | when he teaches, from brainstorming, to prototyping, etc.
       | 
       | https://studio.com/mark-rober-engineering
        
         | noisy_boy wrote:
         | Just that day I was showing Arduino to my daughter - I know
         | very little about hardware so we would be both learning if we
         | went with the starter kit (that fact made her happy). Thanks
         | for sharing this.
        
           | nrjames wrote:
           | Sure! I ended up getting the official arduino starter kit and
           | the Elagoo (?) kit Rober mentions in the class list. The
           | Elagoo one is more versatile, but they complemented each
           | other. A lot of learning, for us, came from finding the
           | Elagoo and official projects and tutorials and completing
           | them. There are many good guides and examples, but you may
           | have to dig a bit on the Elagoo and official sites to find
           | them. We had a lot of fun! It's similar to legos, in a sense,
           | with a little more thinking required and some cool
           | interactive results.
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | Use sticks to make fire, then other Primitive Technology
       | activities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9n9rqb-lvY
       | 
       | Carve a spoon: https://www.leevalley.com/en-
       | us/shop/tools/sets/111261-spoon...
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | Let her guide you? I somehow managed to raise three daughters to
       | adulthood with their curiosity and love of learning intact, there
       | is a luck component of course.
       | 
       | An easy, not much equipment needed, activity is drawing. What I
       | like about it is that it incentivizes visualizing things (not
       | everyone can, and that is okay, drawing what you are looking at
       | can be fun too!) and since I generally was not great at drawing
       | nobody felt they were too "bad" at it to participate.
       | 
       | A program the girls took advantage of was Reikes Nature studies.
       | One of the things they do is catalog as many things they can see
       | at a nearby wooded park. When I read Feynman's discussion of how
       | the ants became a source of fascination for him I realized that
       | there are zillions of questions right in front in our eyes if we
       | think about it. Or perhaps more accurately wonder why things are
       | the way they are.
       | 
       | David Macaulay has a great book called "The Way Things Work."
       | (and it has funny illustrations of mammoths figuring things out)
       | Reading it together and talking about how things work led to
       | interesting questions which led to interesting projects to see if
       | we could answer those questions.
       | 
       | And generally "active reading" where you read together and talk
       | about the characters in the story, what they might be feeling,
       | why they might be acting the way they are, and how things might
       | be different if something happened in a different way than it
       | does in the book.
       | 
       | Perhaps the best idea to be genuinely interested in what they are
       | interested in, rather than trying to get them interested in
       | something you are interested in. That may seem obvious but it
       | wasn't to me at first.
       | 
       | My eldest and I started doing piano lessons at that age, in part
       | because the music was interesting and in part because I always
       | wanted something "safe" we could talk about (and music was always
       | a good topic of conversation).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | matthew16550 wrote:
       | You both might enjoy an Australian TV series called "Curiosity
       | Show".
       | 
       | It is science / technology focused and aimed at kids around your
       | daughters age.
       | 
       | They explain a lot of fun sciencey things, puzzles and magic
       | tricks that can be made at home from very easy to find parts.
       | 
       | The YT channel has over 1000 short videos :
       | https://youtube.com/c/CuriosityShow
       | 
       | It was made in the 70s and 80s yet much is still totally relevant
       | today. Even the occasional thing that is out of date might be a
       | fun history discussion.
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | Just watched two of them, very cool. I had no idea that animas
         | and birds that eat fish whole always always always eat the fish
         | head-first.
        
       | alfor wrote:
       | Mine just installed planet zoo (20$ on steam) and she is having a
       | blast.
       | 
       | I am not for video games in general, but I am surprise at the
       | amount of planning, learning involved in this.
       | 
       | We also bought a used cricut and she made some cute stuff with
       | it, but there is a computer drawing side to those projects.
       | 
       | You can build stuff together, learn to draw, etc.
        
       | stevekemp wrote:
       | Being unemployed probably means you don't have a huge budget, but
       | some for our child I've tried to do a little bit of "everything"
       | to see what he enjoys.
       | 
       | When I ask him what he wants to do he says "I don't know", so I
       | say "We're going swimming in the sea", "Lets plant some seeds",
       | "Today we're cooking / sewing", "Lets pick a spot on the map and
       | go visit it by bus/tram", or "Lets draw pokemon evolving".
       | 
       | (maps are kinda fascinating to him. I often ask him what he
       | thinks he can see if he were stood on top of a particular local
       | landmark - he has a good sense of direction, but no idea of
       | scale/distance.)
       | 
       | Over time I've learned a bit about what he likes, but he's young
       | and fickle enough that some ideas are good one day and terrible
       | the next. (For example he loves swimming and playing football,
       | but when I put him in age-appropriate classes he refused to take
       | part - "I don't like doing what the teacher says, why can't I
       | just have fun and play about?")
       | 
       | Electronics is interesting to him, as is listening to "Daddy
       | music". (Goth/Rock/Metal.) "Mommy music" doesn't appeal as much
       | which I find a little fascinating. Does he genuinely prefer my
       | music, or is it something about me? I know that he behaves and
       | plays differently depending on who he's spending time with ..
        
         | mlyle wrote:
         | > Electronics is interesting to him, as is listening to "Daddy
         | music". (Goth/Rock/Metal.) "Mommy music" doesn't appeal as much
         | which I find a little fascinating. Does he genuinely prefer my
         | music, or is it something about me? I know that he behaves and
         | plays differently depending on who he's spending time with ..
         | 
         | There's not an A or B answer to this kind of question. Parents
         | are influential, and the response to parents' recommendations
         | and preferences are inseparable from the actual relationship.
         | 
         | My oldest son is now 13. Most of what I played for him isn't so
         | interesting anymore. But we spent a couple years earlier in his
         | life where we went to my workshop and I'd play Kraftwerk and
         | he'd get one on one time and we'd do "serious" things.
         | Kraftwerk is still treasured to him, and I doubt that it's
         | because Kraftwerk was more intrinsically appealing to him than
         | those other things...
         | 
         | Or, conversely, my dad always listened to music from rat pack
         | performers. It was a subject of curiosity when i was 6-11...
         | awful when I was 12-17 and had a terrible relationship with my
         | dad, and now it's evolved to a mild appreciation tinged with
         | nostalgia. If I was still mad at my dad I think it would be
         | hard to like it.
        
         | noisy_boy wrote:
         | > When I ask him what he wants to do he says "I don't know"
         | 
         | I had to reach the age of 22 and get the chance to use
         | computers for the first time in my life to figure that out ...
         | he will be ok :)
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | > Does he genuinely prefer my music, or is it something about
         | me?
         | 
         | This is a very insightful question. Although I can't answer for
         | your child, I know mine takes an interest in almost anything
         | that i show love or curiosity for. If I express love for a song
         | (not with words but by singing it, dancing to it, etc), he will
         | ask to hear it again and again.
         | 
         | Does his mother show a love for music and specific songs?
        
           | stevekemp wrote:
           | I see the same thing in other areas, definitely.
           | 
           | He got his first watch, way before he could tell the time,
           | because he was so interested in my watch collection and kept
           | pleading to wear one "just like daddy does".
           | 
           | But yes I think we both enjoy music, and I think we both sing
           | (badly) to our favourite tracks now and again - usually he
           | tells us to stop!
        
         | unixhero wrote:
         | Hey I will use these tactics in my wife, thanks :)
        
         | mabbo wrote:
         | > When I ask him what he wants to do he says "I don't know"
         | 
         | A blogger I read a while ago (I completely forget who) wrote
         | something about this that stuck with me: if you ask a kid if
         | they want pancakes or cereal for breakfast, they'll pick one
         | and be delighted. If you ask them what they'd like to have
         | without presenting options, this can lead to a complete
         | meltdown. Picking from infinite options, forcing them to think
         | all of them up and then turn down n-1 of them... It can be too
         | much for a kid.
         | 
         | Give kids a small number of diverse options where you also
         | approve of all of them. Everyone is pretty happy with the
         | decision. (This system maybe also works really well with
         | adults.)
        
           | circlefavshape wrote:
           | Sounds plausible, but IME doesn't actually work with real
           | kids
        
             | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
             | Works well with mine. He's got 3 choices most mornings.
        
               | mcv wrote:
               | It doesn't with mine, I'm afraid. I frequently give them
               | 1-3 options and they shoot them all down (even
               | pancakes?!). Eventually I give up and ask them what they
               | want, and they still don't know, or just want to eat
               | nothing.
        
               | splintercell wrote:
               | > Eventually I give up and ask them what they want, and
               | they still don't know, or just want to eat nothing.
               | 
               | I force a choice on mine, and she immediately 'strongly'
               | choose the other one, which I reject, which makes her
               | want it even more.
        
               | svnt wrote:
               | It's because they've learned that they can say no and
               | you'll keep coming up with more options. They've exited
               | the game because you created the exit by failing to
               | enforce the boundary.
        
               | sfrigon wrote:
               | Yeah I've experienced this when I was young. My mom was
               | running a daycare at home, and I would sometimes try to
               | help at lunchtime.
               | 
               | Me: <Kid's name>, do you want apple juice? No. Do you
               | want orange juice? No. Do you want grape juice? No. Well
               | that's all we've got, which one do you prefer? None, I
               | want something else. ... and obviously whatever we had
               | would not do. My mom who saw I was not efficient enough:
               | Okay <kid's name> do you want apple or orange juice?
               | Orange.
               | 
               | My first reaction was "but I already suggested it", but I
               | got better after a while.
        
               | mlyle wrote:
               | OK, sure, offering a choice of what to eat when they're
               | not excited about the idea of eating isn't going to
               | generate a response. I almost never ate breakfast as a
               | kid... unless there was leftover cake or something I
               | could sneak...
        
             | mlyle wrote:
             | Eh. I'm a teacher these days, and it works with real kids.
             | With my _own_ kids, who know the range of possibility and
             | aren 't quite so believing in my authority as that of a
             | real teacher, it's still effective but less so.
             | 
             | [It works to get class buy-in, even if you are offering meh
             | choice A and awful choice B. A class that has chosen "A"
             | will be more engaged doing it than if you just told them to
             | do A...
             | 
             | but you'd better be ready to do 'B' if the class decides to
             | be contrarian. Once, they really wanted to do the quiz to
             | show that they really -do- know what we've been doing, and
             | if I hadn't had the quiz prepped and ready I'd have been in
             | trouble...]
        
         | anonu wrote:
         | "being unemployed" could also be a euphemism for "i sold my
         | startup for $100s of millions"
        
           | bluescrn wrote:
           | Then the answer is easy. Go to the nearest Lego store and buy
           | everything!
        
         | sidpatil wrote:
         | > "Mommy music" doesn't appeal as much which I find a little
         | fascinating.
         | 
         | What genres does "Mommy music" consist of?
        
           | noobermin wrote:
           | dad was a metalhead and mom was a punk
        
           | stevekemp wrote:
           | I'd choose goth/rock/techno/industrial-metal and stuff from
           | the 80s. She'd choose goth/rock/techno/90s music.
           | 
           | So a reasonably high amount of overlap, which is why it's a
           | bit fascinating.
           | 
           | (I guess I learned early on that he liked loud drums, loud
           | rhythms, and repetition. Things like Rammstein - Fier Fier,
           | Prodigy - Firestarter, so I tend to bias myself in that
           | direction if he's nearby or listening with me. Maybe that's
           | all it is, but it's fun to observe.)
        
         | prionassembly wrote:
         | Baby had a starting preference for things we put with
         | headphones over the mom's belly. This might sound insane, but I
         | was in the OR for the C-section and once the baby was put on
         | the mother's arm I started to play one of these music tracks
         | and the baby stopped crying, appearing to recognize stuff from
         | the older situation.
         | 
         | That said, the pregnancy music selection was mostly daddy's
         | music because daddy has a music education, mommy's pretty much
         | deaf to intervals between notes and stuck on music from her
         | youth. But the things that were there, baby still loves.
         | 
         | Since then I've made an effort to expand on his repertory from
         | daddy's music. Mom's attempts to do so are met with less
         | enthusiasm.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Thaaat said: parenting so far has confirmed the story about the
         | Oedipus complex. In plain words, it's like this: mom can't give
         | him her full attention; the world and society and large steal
         | her from him. Luckily, the baby learns to personify all this
         | stuff into dad -- it's dad who steals mommy. This is lucky
         | because he can _aspire to be me_ , while "society at large" is
         | enough to drive anyone insane. This is very very clear in this
         | family: kid wants to be _with_ his mom, often _alone_ with her;
         | but also: kid wants to be _like_ me. He attentively watches me
         | as I dress, and enjoys enormously the homologies (hey, let 's
         | all put on socks!). Even when it comes to daddy's "no" -- this
         | is understandable, the overarching ways of the world are not.
         | (Jacques Lacan has this pun where "le _non_ du pere " becomes
         | "le _nom_ du pere " -- baby will have _my name_ , this is the
         | heart of fathering.)
        
           | stevekemp wrote:
           | I think our child seems to like us both "equally" these days,
           | though it is clear some days that nothing Daddy does is
           | correct, and mommy would do it better/properly.
           | 
           | I can also see that when she works overnight he tries to
           | outright punish her, by ignoring her, when she returns.
           | 
           | But those kinda things aside I don't see anything like your
           | story there. I guess it goes to show that kids, and
           | personalities, are so varied.
        
       | dotancohen wrote:
       | I have had much fun with my daughters at that age (and younger,
       | and older) with Arduino kits from Ali Express. Just a few
       | dollars' worth of parts were some of the best spent money I've
       | ever spent.
       | 
       | I would do the programming, and the girls would help assemble the
       | parts. But they would be with me and see the programming process.
       | Soldering lead free is difficult, in the end some things I
       | soldered myself with lead. And one of the girls is interested in
       | the programming in the end.
        
       | prionassembly wrote:
       | What was the child like when younger? I have no idea what his
       | interests are.
       | 
       | I have a one-and-a-halfer and I keep him busy when I want to kick
       | back at the end of the day by putting some really challenging
       | music on the TV (initially jazz and prog rock, but by now we're
       | watching flamenco and _some_ lieder by Webern and Schoenberg).
       | Kid is really into music; Camel 's "Rhayader/Rhayader goes into
       | town" (rock music but instrumental and an almost-suite kind of
       | structure) is his _jam_ , no Backyardigans or Peppa Pig in this
       | home.
       | 
       | He's also very curious about books, physically. I can't tell if
       | he's going to be a reader (of course he likes baby books with the
       | tactile colorful elements) but he likes to touch them on the
       | shelves and had to be taught not to remove them. He might just
       | like rectangular (parallelepipedal?) things.
       | 
       | Anyway, when I imagine keeping my son busy at age _3_ I imagine
       | sending him to piano lessons, going to concerts, maybe trying to
       | do two-part harmonies. Also maybe reading him books or just
       | making piles of rectangular bricks -- give him initial ideas and
       | leaving him to it. What will he be like at age 11, I don 't know.
       | But I will by then.
        
       | patchorang wrote:
       | Make a stop motion video - there are cheap/free apps that make it
       | really easy to do
       | 
       | Not sure if you have any instruments around the house, but make a
       | song with her
       | 
       | Like another poster said, make magazine. They have tooons of good
       | projects.
        
         | _Microft wrote:
         | Stop Motion Studio by Cateater is a good app iirc. It's
         | available for at least iOs, Android and Windows.
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | Walks in nature + iNaturalist. Gardening. Pottery. Vermiculture.
       | Microscopy. Creative writing. Watercolour. Robotics.
        
       | actfrench wrote:
       | If it's helpful, we built a site during the pandemic where we
       | sourced ideas from parents on how to keep kids engaged while
       | working from home. It was #2 on Product Hunt.
       | 
       | Enrichmentactivities.org
       | 
       | My favorite activity is quality time outdoors . If there is any
       | hike you could do, a beach or a park, that's always a winner.
       | Spending time in nature being physically active is a great way to
       | keep both of you engaged and spending time together. You could
       | also plan a picnic and make recipes together.
       | 
       | Is there something she'd like to make ? Go on YouTube and figure
       | out how to make a boomerang, tie dye shirts, learn to knit, do
       | origami or sew.
       | 
       | Maybe your daughter could even help you with your job search.
       | Kids, especially 11 year olds are whip smart and love to engage
       | in grownup stuff
        
       | user_7832 wrote:
       | Lots of good suggestions in this thread here, I'd just like to
       | add - see what _she 's interested in_, from a topic point of
       | view. A lot of the suggested things here are science based. Is
       | that what she likes? Maybe history? Museums and exhibits may be
       | much more appreciated and exiting than science kits. Or perhaps
       | biology? Bug collecting? A basic microscope kit might be better.
       | 
       | It need not be educational in the traditional sense at all
       | either. You could go on hikes, teach about camping/wilderness
       | survival, knot tying/scouts activity stuff. It could even be
       | handyman things if those are of interest to her (I know they
       | would have been of interest to 11yo me) - basics of tools and
       | tool safety (assuming you know it yourself, or perhaps a local
       | course for kids if available). There are more
       | "practical"/lifesaving options too like knowing how to change a
       | tire, or how do perform CPR/Heimlich maneuver.
       | 
       | Additional on a tangential note there are lots of excellent
       | books, but in particular I highly recommend the x Book series by
       | DK (not just for kids but also for adults)
       | (https://www.dk.com/ca/promotion/big-ideas-series/).
       | Encyclopedias are also great, the more pictures the funner they
       | are for some.
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | Modern USB microscopes are extremely good. Not in the sense
         | that the quality is somehow superb but in the sense that they
         | can be had reasonably cheaply and give you a sufficiently
         | magnified view to see lots of details that would not be visible
         | to the naked eye. Importantly, they don't require lots of the
         | faff that a 'proper' microscope does, e.g. no messing around
         | with dirty objectives or eyepieces or light sources or slides
         | or covering slips or stains or preparing samples or two
         | different focusing wheels or oils or whatever. And it can be a
         | further pain if you want to get an image onto a computer
         | whereas with a USB scope it's already there. The point is that
         | the lower barrier of entry can build interest and the low cost
         | means you don't feel so bad if you only use it once or twice.
        
       | zoomablemind wrote:
       | > ...My daughter is 11
       | 
       | At this age, I rather try to get in tune with the initiative that
       | comes from the kid. She may already have some projects that may
       | benefit from your [measured] participation.
       | 
       | Alternatively, I'd try to find something fun for myself, and then
       | would try to see if there's a room in it for the kid's effort.
       | 
       | All in all, the pre-teen/teens want to know that their choices
       | are respected (no matter how self-contradicting these may be).
        
       | sandreas wrote:
       | Build a phoniebox with her (see
       | https://pilabor.com/projects/labelmaker/)
       | 
       | - Some crafting
       | 
       | - Some electronics
       | 
       | - If you wish some programming
       | 
       | - A lot of fun afterwards...
        
         | leetrout wrote:
         | Saving the next person some immediate confusion an extra cliks
         | :) :)
         | 
         | http://phoniebox.de/index-en.html
         | 
         | https://github.com/MiczFlor/RPi-Jukebox-RFID
        
           | sandreas wrote:
           | Thanks... I did not think about the confusion, but you are
           | right. My article contains the hint, that I build an RFID
           | based music box for / with my daughter... and of course my
           | programming effort to print labels for the RFID stickers ;)
           | 
           | She is SO happy with this thing, it is a pleasure to look at
           | her still using her wooden RFID tags to play "The Bare
           | Necessities" from The Jungle Book and dancing in her room
           | nearly every day - she is 3 now.
        
             | leetrout wrote:
             | Very cool idea, indeed!
        
         | patrickdavey wrote:
         | Oh that looks amazing! I just ordered a yoto [1] but that looks
         | a lot more fun!
         | 
         | [1] https://us.yotoplay.com/
        
       | bartvk wrote:
       | Recently, me and my daughter got some scrap wood from a shop that
       | specializes in laser cutting. We used paper and wood glue to make
       | beds for her dolls. She really liked it. It requires creativity
       | because the scrap wood has all sorts of weird shapes. And
       | patience, because the glue requires drying.
        
       | tokamak-teapot wrote:
       | Try lots of things and see what she gets into. Do some gardening.
       | Make stuff with your hands. Cook. Play lots of different musical
       | instruments. If you don't have any, play rhythms with your hands.
       | Listen to some music. Ask her what she likes or doesn't like
       | about it. Sing along to it. Read lots of books to her. Take her
       | to visit woods, hills (with good views), rock formations,
       | streams, lakes, old buildings open the public. Go to museums.
       | Borrow a dog. Bring a friend and their parent along so she can
       | play with the other child while you chat to the parent about
       | grown up stuff, but you can still get involved in what the kids
       | are doing.
        
         | mrcartmeneses wrote:
         | My youngest and I love gardening together. She's got so much
         | gusto! Sunflowers grow really fast. Get loads of random seeds
         | and a plastic tray to grow the seedlings in. Then once they've
         | sprouted you can plant them in the beds or in bigger pots of
         | you don't have a garden. More steps more fun
        
       | gonzo41 wrote:
       | Do outdoorsy stuff. Hiking is costs just food and water and it
       | doesn't need to be extreme to be fun. There's a whole interesting
       | world of stuff just outside that's free.
        
       | bradhe wrote:
       | Why are you asking Hacker News about this and not your daughter?
       | Hacker News doesn't know your daughter.
        
         | onelovetwo wrote:
         | Thats how you grow a kid whos addicted to netflix and frozen
         | chicken nuggets.
        
       | brainzap wrote:
       | ask her
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | Some things I enjoyed as a girl:
       | 
       | Target practice, berry picking, helping my father do woodworking
       | projects, learning to shoot a bow, playing assistant in the
       | kitchen to my sister's baking, collecting vegetables from the
       | garden for dinner, trips to the library with my mother and sister
       | where I would lay on the floor and read Dr. Seuss while my sister
       | worked on stuff for her high school newspaper, putting together
       | imaginary travel wardrobes for my dolls, trying every 'girly'
       | craft I was aware of -- sewing, crochet, etc -- though none of
       | that ever resulted in a finished project otlr really stuck.
       | 
       | As an adult, my sons have helped widen my horizons by telling me
       | stuff like "This 4x game (Master of Magic) is just like your
       | favorite, SimCity" and walking me through how to play it
       | primarily as a city/civilization building game.
       | 
       | If you can find some sweet spot of that sort, I think it would be
       | wonderful. I have read that one of the strongest predictors of
       | career success in women is a good relationship to her father.
       | 
       | Enjoy.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | Wow, that sounds like quite the variety of fun when you were
         | younger; kudos! My dad was very much into sports, so my
         | siblings and i - as you can imagine - played lots of sports in
         | our youth; somewhat on teams but more so just with each other.
         | And honestly, as fun as team sports were, i enjoyed my time
         | tons more with just our little family unit when i was a kid.
         | Kudos again to you for your fun youth! :-)
        
       | a-saleh wrote:
       | I would probably get them into cooking and helping me cook.
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | Ask her what she wants to do.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rr808 wrote:
         | If its like my daughter its watch tiktok 16 hours a day.
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | So install TikTok and sit together on your phones doom
           | scrolling and see what happens.
           | 
           | Good faith means living with answers you don't want to hear.
           | 
           | I mean if you ask and then say "I don't want to do that" to
           | her answer, what do you expect when you ask how about a hike
           | instead?
           | 
           | You can choose which routes are available for a child to
           | express their personhood, but you can't prevent its
           | expression.
           | 
           | Holding their expression of autonomy in contempt has
           | consequences that you probably don't want.
           | 
           | Learning from your child, on the other hand, will probably
           | pay off for the rest of your lives.
           | 
           | TikTok is more interesting than most people.
        
         | broeng wrote:
         | "I don't know"
        
           | Broken_Hippo wrote:
           | Honestly, that is understandable. Part of being 11 is getting
           | to do more and more things that you just couldn't do before.
           | But part of being 11 is having an insulated view of the world
           | and the things available in it. Not knowing is perfectly
           | natural.
           | 
           | But still ask because she might know have an idea. Still ask,
           | and encourage her to speak up and that you'll give it a try
           | if it is affordable (or whatever qualifiers you have). Still
           | ask, and provide some varied suggestions or categories of
           | things to do. Still ask and try to get preferences of what
           | the kid is currently interested in. At minimum, you can
           | probably be left with some dislikes and a few things that
           | _might_ be interesting.
        
         | _benj wrote:
         | This, but I think it could be more nuanced. Notice her interest
         | and explore further what she wants to do.
         | 
         | All she might want to do is watch some cartoons, notice the
         | content and after some time propose to record your own little
         | video with a similar content, or to model and 3D print one of
         | the characters, or to use scratch to program one of the
         | characters to do something.
         | 
         | Alternatively, give her options, not only verbal but take her
         | places (the mall, local market, county fair) and observe what
         | calls her attention and dig deeper into that!
         | 
         | Browsing books at a local library about whatever topic she
         | might like could also be interesting!
         | 
         | Good luck and hope you have tons of fun!
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | _take her places_
           | 
           | Road trips were great bonding experiences for me as a parent.
           | 
           | Sure their headphones were on a lot when they weren't
           | sleeping.
           | 
           | But it was all happening someplace they hadn't been.
           | 
           | And they saw me out of my comfort zone dealing with the
           | unknown laughing at fart jokes on the XM comedy station.
        
       | oblib wrote:
       | I became a single parent when my daughter turned 1 year old. When
       | she got old enough we'd go fishing, bicycling, swimming, and
       | hiking a lot. We'd also go to a used book store twice a month (on
       | pay day) so she could pick out a few books to read. She loved
       | doing that.
       | 
       | She had no interest at all in learning how to code or gaming but
       | she loved helping in the garden and in the kitchen prepping and
       | cooking meals.
       | 
       | When she got to Jr. High she wanted to join the "Cheerleader"
       | squad so there were a lot early morning rides to school I had to
       | make, and lot's of Basketball games I attended until she
       | graduated, but I had a lot fun cheering along with them.
       | 
       | During those years I setup a campsite on our property so her and
       | her friends could go hang out there. I'm sure they had more fun
       | than most parents would approve of but they never got into any
       | real trouble, the police were never called, and no one got hurt
       | bad enough for the parents to call me. For the most part all
       | those parents knew exactly where their kids were and what they
       | were doing. And that I was close enough to deal with anything
       | that came up. But there were never any serious issues.
       | 
       | She's 37 years old now, still loves to hike, backpack, swim,
       | fish, garden, and cook, and most important, she still likes to
       | hang out with me!
        
         | marconey wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing, hoping I can follow suit and raise an
         | independent free-range daughter who likes me!
        
         | andruby wrote:
         | Thank you for posting this.
        
         | hpcjoe wrote:
         | This should go on twitter as "Dudes posting their massive W's"
         | :D
         | 
         | Mine is 22, about to start grad school for a Ph.D. in applied
         | math (I'm Ph.D. in theoretical physics, but am a secret math
         | nerd ... wife is also a math nerd and an M.S. Physics).
         | 
         | Early on we discovered how much she loved reading. So, we read
         | to her, every night. For a while, I could quote whole sections
         | of "The Sleep Book" (Dr. Seuss) from memory. As she grew older,
         | she read. Voraciously. Throughout high school, she insisted she
         | wanted to be an artist, which we completely supported. Said she
         | hated math.
         | 
         | She liked some physical activity, though I could never convince
         | her to work out with me or my wife at the gym.
         | 
         | Went through an IB program in high school. Told us at the end,
         | after getting into a competitive art school, that she was happy
         | she never had to take math, ever again. Fast forward a year,
         | and she was aching to change majors.
         | 
         | She graduated with a double major (one being math), and a
         | minor. Got into a bunch of grad schools for Ph.D.
         | 
         | Now, the girl who hated math at the end of high school, is
         | about to move on to be a woman in a math Ph.D. program.
         | 
         | There's a point to this.
         | 
         | Your kid will find some things interesting, and others less so.
         | Don't worry about that, and enjoy discovering what she likes
         | with her. If you do the dad thing right, you will wind up with
         | a kid who can adapt to new situations, and find joy in what
         | they do.
         | 
         | My daughter still does (absolutely amazing) art on her own. Not
         | just a dad saying this, she really is tremendously talented.
         | And we encourage her to continue to pursue what she
         | likes/loves.
        
           | uranium wrote:
           | "I'm Ph.D. in theoretical physics, but am a secret math nerd"
           | 
           | Uh...you know that secret got out some time before your
           | doctorate, right? =^>.
        
             | brnt wrote:
             | Physics grad here. We used to say theoretical physicists
             | were people just not good enough for actual math. "Regular"
             | phycisists like myself simply admitted they are too lazy.
        
           | strobe999 wrote:
           | as a young father. your piece elegantly summarizes what im
           | hoping to be to my child. i wish you two many years of
           | curiosity!
        
           | andrepd wrote:
           | As a 27 year old physics grad turned maths PhD with a physics
           | MSc wife... I'm taking notes :)
        
           | Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
           | Good for you, and good for her. What you guys have done is
           | the most inspiring thing I've read today!
        
         | nickysielicki wrote:
         | We have such a weird culture around how we treat teenagers in
         | this country. We all remember drinking and smoking as teens,
         | but parents tends to rule with an iron fist and convince
         | themselves that they have more control than their parents did,
         | which means we force healthy normal curious kids to go out to a
         | secluded area (probably by car) to get high or drunk or explore
         | in other ways, away from an adult that could help if something
         | goes wrong, and at a much greater chance of involving the
         | police and putting their future in jeopardy. I respect you for
         | giving your daughter and her friends a safe place to just be
         | normal teenagers. I'm not saying parents should buy their teens
         | a bottle of vodka but everyone should start from a place of
         | being realistic and reducing harm.
        
           | svnt wrote:
           | Like you imply I think being punitive may be viewed as
           | healthy because the opposite stance (of encouraging or
           | enabling, or even participating) is boundary-blurring. In
           | this case the temporally removed hypocrisy is better than
           | joining in, which is the other extreme.
           | 
           | Culturally we don't have a lot of nuance in America yet.
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | I wonder how teenage alcohol abuse compares across countries,
           | France in particular comes to mind since it's common to
           | introduce wine relatively early (in moderation, and perhaps
           | diluted, of course). I thought there was quite a young
           | supervised with-meal drinking age too, but having searched
           | for it perhaps that's changed (or I was wrong). If it's not
           | some forbidden fruit maybe the run off with a bottle of vodka
           | thing doesn't happen so much.
        
             | linschn wrote:
             | In France, diluting your wine will get you the guillotine
             | ;-)
             | 
             | The legal drinking age is 16 for low alcohol content
             | beverages (wine, beer, etc) ; 18 for all alcohols and
             | tobacco.
             | 
             | At a family gathering or on a special occasion you may get
             | a glass of wine starting around 14 or later I'd say, for
             | most middle class families.
             | 
             | Binge drinking is not as much of a problem as in more
             | northern countries, but binge alcohol consumption is a
             | problem that is being felt at the University level.
        
           | lern_too_spel wrote:
           | Speak to your kids like adults, explaining why some choices
           | lead to worse outcomes, and they will make choices like
           | adults. Speak to kids like they're slaves, and they will make
           | rebellious choices like slaves. Don't speak to your kids at
           | all about decisions, and they will make poor decisions and
           | wonder why their lives are so difficult.
        
           | dgb23 wrote:
           | One thing I'm very grateful for is that I never had to worry
           | about going home as a kid. Never. Later I realized how much
           | of a privilege that was.
        
           | HideousKojima wrote:
           | >We all remember drinking and smoking as teens
           | 
           | Speak for yourself, worst thing I did in high school was play
           | too many video games.
        
             | steve_adams_86 wrote:
             | Hell yeah. My parents would have been very stern with me if
             | they knew just how many hours I spent gaming.
             | 
             | I also taught myself programming into the wee hours of the
             | night.
             | 
             | It was a wild time alright
        
             | nickysielicki wrote:
             | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle
             | /...
        
               | Buge wrote:
               | >By late adolescence, 78.2% of US adolescents had
               | consumed alcohol
               | 
               | I guess I fall into that group, since I had a few sips,
               | given to my by my parents.
               | 
               | > 47.1% had reached regular drinking levels defined by at
               | least 12 drinks within a given year
               | 
               | So less than half.
               | 
               | > drug use by 42.5%
               | 
               | Also less than half. I wonder how many tried it just
               | once.
               | 
               | > drug abuse by 16.4%
        
           | kwatsonafter wrote:
        
         | memcg wrote:
         | Nice. The library, used book stores and Blockbuster video were
         | some of our favorites, especially when the weather was bad.
        
       | tmaly wrote:
       | I can think of three great options for age 11.
       | 
       | First option get a makeymakey and work through the free project
       | videos on their site.
       | 
       | Second option get a microbit and work through the free tutorials
       | on makecode. If you have two microbits, they can talk via onboard
       | radio. They also have Bluetooth so you can connect to a phone.
       | 
       | Third get a copy of the Getting Started in Electronics RadioShak
       | book and build some of the science and circuit projects.
        
       | carimura wrote:
       | Since some people are talking about games, I thought I'd share my
       | short list. My kids are a bit younger, and it's important to me
       | that we don't introduce fast-moving games. We don't have a TV for
       | this reason, stuff is just too intense now. I'm trying to
       | recreate the modern experience that I went through, learning the
       | joy of adventure from games like Sierra Online's series (Police
       | Quest, Kings Quest, etc.)
       | 
       | All I've found so far are Lumino City, Old Man's Journey, and
       | Machinarium. So far all 3 have been huge hits and exactly the
       | pace I've been going for. We've played each one probably 10
       | times.
        
       | chimen wrote:
       | having a blast doing carting with mine, 11 as well
        
       | chongli wrote:
       | Try taking her to a local library and asking the librarian in the
       | children's section. Libraries often have fun and educational
       | activities for children and families to enjoy. If they don't, at
       | the very least the librarian should be able to help you find
       | books of projects for kids to do.
        
       | ankaAr wrote:
       | I don't know where you lives, but do hicking with her if you have
       | time.
       | 
       | Try to do some theater of mind games (d&d or whatever she or both
       | likes). Maybe you can't afford going somewhere but nothings tie
       | you there.
       | 
       | Talking about that if you lives in a city big enough, there must
       | to be hidden places with a story to tell, grab a map a visit that
       | with her. Think about a story you can tell with that. I learnt
       | more about buenos aires (the city where I live) and Chicago (the
       | city where I'm moving soon) because Dresden Files books and
       | roleplaying, than from school. And I learned how to love every
       | city secret because of that.
       | 
       | Why I'm talking about roleplaying and walking time together?
       | Because both will be spending time together and will be knowing
       | (a looot) each other, and over that, you will be feeding her
       | imagination and curiosity.
       | 
       | And it is free.
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | Great suggestions and you inspired me. What is Dresden Files?
        
           | ankaAr wrote:
           | A book series about a wizard/private investigator working in
           | Chicago. It is funny, short (each book, they are like 20..)
           | and they feed on arthurian lore plus urban legends (that is
           | pushed even more by the roleplay books).
           | 
           | Jim Butcher is the author and the audiobooks are narrated by
           | James Masters (spike in buffy tv show)
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | Books: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dresden_Files
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | > What is Dresden Files?
           | 
           | It is a fantasy/mystery novel series written by Jim Butcher.
           | 
           | The sorries follow the titular Harry Dresden, who is a
           | wizard-for-hire investigating supernatural disturbances in
           | modern day Chicago. It can be described as a hard-boiled
           | detective novel with fantasy elements.
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
       | Go Kayaking with her. A camera and lenses and you could do
       | wildlife or macro photography or fishing on your trips. Great
       | Exercise and connection with nature. If you get something like a
       | DJI Mini drone you can capture something people rarely see. Maybe
       | you could even start a youtube channel with all the unique
       | footage. Which would require video editing and photoshop skills.
       | Not even that expensive:
       | 
       | Mirrorless camera $500
       | 
       | Drone $400
       | 
       | Two kayaks ~$1000
        
       | stefanos82 wrote:
       | Ask her what she finds interesting and based on her answer(s),
       | find the most appealing to you and start designing a logic based
       | on it, a prototype if you will.
       | 
       | Tell her that for this project she will be your project manager
       | that would lead to the fruition of the end product; that would be
       | enough to keep her engaged with the whole process.
       | 
       | Good luck!
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | > Tell her that for this project she will be your project
         | manager
         | 
         | > end product
         | 
         | That does not sound fun. I don't think I was envisioning things
         | as management and products when I was a child.
         | 
         | The first line of your comment does sound fun, however.
        
           | arethuza wrote:
           | Our son was very fond of acting as a "project manager" when
           | he was young - like 3 or 4 years old.
           | 
           | His idea of playing with a (age appropriate) train set was to
           | get his mother to set everything up under his direction,
           | similarly going to the beach he'd direct me to build a dam...
           | (which I was happy to do).
        
             | jraph wrote:
             | Good to know. I'll remember this as a tool for potential
             | future use then.
        
       | FollowingTheDao wrote:
       | Oh, do not keep her busy. Let her wallow in the discomfort of
       | having nothing to do, but do not give her the modern things which
       | are an easy escape from that discomfort (TV, Computers, etc). You
       | will see her natural interests reveal themselves and when they
       | do, give them all the interest like they weer your own as well.
       | 
       | Do your own thing and she will see how it looks to be engaged in
       | something you like.
       | 
       | All the other props and gimmicks will only implant your interests
       | on her, which might be the the same and that is ok, but most
       | likely they will not be.
       | 
       | However, she should be with friends around her age as well.
       | Parents are important, but negotiating friendships is invaluable.
        
       | cesaref wrote:
       | It sounds like an amazing opportunity that you should grab. You
       | both have the freedom to do something that normally would be
       | closed to you due to constraints on both of your time (school and
       | work).
       | 
       | Assuming you can afford it, how about hiring a camper van and
       | taking off for a month, and see where you end up? There's bound
       | to be places you both would love to see which otherwise would be
       | difficult, and by being away from the trappings of home and email
       | etc, you'll get some amazing quality time together which may not
       | happen again.
       | 
       | 11 is a great age, but you are at the start of some difficult
       | years where there's lots of pressure on kids, both from society
       | and from family (go well at school, know what you want to do etc
       | etc). So take advantage of some care free time together!
        
       | RyanOD wrote:
       | Here are a few ideas...
       | 
       | - Build a free little library
       | 
       | - Learn to skateboard
       | 
       | - Collaborate on a short-story
       | 
       | - Build a treehouse
       | 
       | - Learn to bake bread
       | 
       | - Plant a garden
       | 
       | - Go on hikes together
       | 
       | - Learn to safely fire a .22 or BB gun
       | 
       | (Edited for layout)
        
       | DIARRHEA_xd wrote:
       | TikTok and Netflix are great places to start.
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | Spider eggs, spider eggs,
       | 
       | Can do all that an egg can.
       | 
       | Does nothing?, what surpraise!
       | 
       | Here comes the mayonaise...
       | 
       | https://aleteia.org/blogs/simchafisher/whats-for-supper-vol-...
        
       | AutomatedChaos wrote:
       | https://makezine.com/ https://www.adafruit.com If looking for
       | mini tech projects :)
        
       | abirch wrote:
       | Check out Roblox.com/create
        
       | Siecje wrote:
       | Make a pinhole camera, or a small functioning water lock system
       | for boats.
        
       | kwatsonafter wrote:
       | In training academic Pedagogist here: It may be worthwhile to
       | take a two or day three reading of Rousseau's classic, "Emile; or
       | On Education." It gives tremendous insight into how it is that
       | adults can have positive relationships with the children that
       | they might be governing.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile%2C_or_On_Education
       | 
       | Rousseau recommends: Night games, obstacle courses, Natural
       | Method (Parkour), but in short the idea is to let the child be
       | self-directing in their activities. In Rousseau's words, "to gain
       | time by losing it." ie. don't try to direct their activities. Do
       | what is necessary and dutiful in your own regard and teach
       | through example and necessity; never through imposition unless
       | absolutely necessary.
        
         | svnt wrote:
         | If you're going this route there is a whole field of early
         | childhood development; don't read one archaic text and declare
         | "this is the way" or you risk coming off like the new grad
         | student in Good Will Hunting. [0]
         | 
         | Montessori (the person) and Steiner are other interesting
         | originating sources in Western culture but reading about how
         | the e.g. Aka parent might be a shorter path. [1]
         | 
         | [ 0
         | https://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/specialengage...
         | ]
         | 
         | [ 1 Review Barry and Bonnie Hewlett's research particularly]
        
           | kwatsonafter wrote:
           | Fuck off dude. I'll come off however I like.
        
       | shaprack wrote:
       | You can spend time with her and help her discover her interests
       | by asking her what she enjoys doing. Additionally, you can engage
       | in outdoor activities with her, and most significantly, you can
       | accompany her to museums, parks, or zoos. If she enjoys playing
       | games or watching cartoons, she can play educational interactive
       | games where she will learn also.
       | 
       | https://gadgetlite.in/2022/01/math-playground-games/
        
       | Jistern wrote:
        
         | bradhe wrote:
         | Wow, this is easily t he creepiest comment in HN history.
        
       | zwilliamson wrote:
       | Include some of her friends when possible. Make up for lost
       | social time over the past couple years.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | squiggy22 wrote:
       | Write / draw a book, show her how to sell it on Etsy / Gumroad.
        
       | deberon wrote:
       | Lots of good suggestions in here. In the end, none of us know
       | your daughter. If you are out of ideas on things to do with her,
       | take her with you to something you enjoy doing. If you're
       | enthusiastic about it, she might be too. Also, there's nothing
       | wrong with uneducational fun either. Watch a movie or find shapes
       | in the clouds. Be silly and teach her how to laugh on a budget.
        
       | social_quotient wrote:
       | Might be off topic but a nugget from having two girls (5 and 11).
       | Kids don't care about budget or how much things cost. We have
       | toys we've spent hundreds of dollars on only to have the near
       | free to free one be a hit. I say this to make sure you know your
       | employment status likely only effects your kids if it effects
       | you. Or said differently, to the extent it effects you it will
       | effect them.
       | 
       | Kids will generally have fun with anything you show a degree of
       | interest in. The copper pipe plumbing example in this thread is a
       | perfect example. A simple Task became a life long activity for
       | the kid. They will remember it forever and tell someone in the
       | future "this time I welded with my dad"... they won't remember
       | that time my dad didn't hire a plumber.
       | 
       | Things off the top of my head that have been a hit - Planting
       | plants Fashion design Basic coding activities or contests
       | Shooting Anything that requires safety procedures Lawn work (but
       | make it fun or set a timer) Writing a story where they write some
       | of it, you add in silly bits, they write more , repeat till
       | laughing out loud. Both my girls super in to etiquette
       | 
       | Best of luck buddy and squeeze these years for as much as you
       | can.
        
         | sircastor wrote:
         | My wife frequently says to me "this is why I don't buy my kid
         | toys" as we watch our Son playing with some random bucket or
         | cardboard box around the house.
        
           | aldebran wrote:
           | I laugh my ass off so many times I see this. The toy is on
           | the side and the box that the toy came in is apparently more
           | fun. That or Costco boxes. They're sturdy and can fit kids
           | inside them. Lol
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | > I say this to make sure you know your employment status
         | likely only effects your kids if it effects you
         | 
         | That's partially true but there are also things for some
         | hobbies/activities which are really expensive. I'm thinking
         | musical instruments (+lessons), or robotics (okay, those were
         | very expensive when I was a kid but maybe they're cheaper now
         | :p).
        
           | dan-robertson wrote:
           | When I was a kid I tried to do some robotics thing with my
           | dad which was not terribly expensive (it failed due to the
           | servos not being sufficiently powerful despite matching the
           | spec from the book). But probably had the advantage that he
           | knew about electronics a bit and could deal with the
           | chemicals for etching a circuit board (and could borrow a uv
           | lamp thing or oscilloscope or eprom writer from his
           | employer). But these days you can have circuit boards printed
           | for cheap and often there are 'maker spaces' which may have
           | better equipment available (or just skip the PIC and use a
           | raspberry pi).
           | 
           | For an expensive hobby I'd guess anything equestrian rather
           | than music lessons though I don't really know.
           | 
           | Also the OP doesn't say they're actively looking for work so
           | they may be using 'unemployed' in the tongue-in-cheek sense
           | of 'I don't have a job but I have enough money to live
           | without one for a while and want to spend time with my kid'
           | rather than one of the more technical senses of 'not employed
           | and currently actively seeking/wanting/open to employment',
           | which even still may or may not imply tight financial
           | constraints.
        
         | aldebran wrote:
         | 100%
         | 
         | My kids (boys) have probably a couple thousand dollars worth of
         | toys in the house. You know what they enjoy playing with?
         | "Toys" that we've made together. Planes, boats etc. the one
         | exception probably is Legos. Legos are cool!
         | 
         | Get legos from garage sales or something and open the doors to
         | endless fun!
        
         | landemva wrote:
         | Yes, time with dad. Get outside and walk or hike. Play in dirt.
         | Explore plants and flowers. Splash in a creek. My daughter
         | really enjoyed the affordable bow&arrow with foam target.
        
           | protonbob wrote:
           | All this is making me want to have kids sooner.
        
             | Bayko wrote:
             | You need to get off of Hackernews first sir
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | Says you. Enough karma and I'll unlock the HN Dating
               | page.
        
               | sunshinerag wrote:
               | Whaaat ... there is an HN dating page :)
        
               | Flankk wrote:
               | Yes but the market is kind of poor right now. You'll need
               | to have good numbers to attract any kind of attention.
        
               | protonbob wrote:
               | I'm already married so no worries.
        
           | sharkweek wrote:
           | There is nothing my oldest (4.5 years old) enjoys more than
           | going down to the creek by our house and exploring.
           | 
           | We've learned pretty quick with both kids that spending a lot
           | of money on toys etc resulted in a lot of one-and-done play
           | sessions before they'd quickly lose interest.
           | 
           | As with all things and especially kids... YMMV!
        
         | hpcjoe wrote:
         | > Best of luck buddy and squeeze these years for as much as you
         | can.
         | 
         | This ... so much ... Just be there. Discover together.
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | My spouse and I know this with our 5- and 1-year-old.
           | 
           | We have a song that we play to remind ourselves of this:
           | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w8_HsMQ_AQw
        
         | leobg wrote:
         | Very true. And very counter-intuitive. A cardboard box I turned
         | into a playhouse in like three minutes is still one of my
         | daughter's favorite play things. The LEGO I bought her, on the
         | other hand, is pretty much collecting dust.
        
       | eloeffler wrote:
       | Haven't tried this with kids yet, but "coloring computers" might
       | be a cool thing.
       | 
       | You can find it here: Coloring computers: non-electronic
       | computers that work when you color them
       | https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmYz7DPRWypGQcbAHr7Mi8EKB6ntSPsEnUsCXbA...
       | 
       | And the recent HN discussion:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31393501
        
       | credit_guy wrote:
       | My son is 12 y/o, and he's into Minecraft.
       | 
       | Yesterday he discovered the server mc.openredstone.org. He spent
       | all day yesterday and about one hour today, and he ended up
       | building a 4-bit adder.
       | 
       | On this server players learn how to build logic gates, and mix
       | them so they eventually build CPUs. It's fully gamified, so
       | beginners are called "students" and more advanced players are
       | called "builders". To become a "builder" you need to pass some
       | trials. The "builders" probably have their own challenges (not
       | sure, my son is still a student), in any case, they behave like
       | teachers. So a student will find a builder who will give them
       | instructions, and guide them through more and more complex
       | designs.
       | 
       | So, yesterday my son had no idea what XOR or NAND is, and today
       | he already built a 4-bit adder, and has dreams of building an
       | ALU.
       | 
       | I'm quite excited to be honest. By the way, I'm not in any way
       | connected with whomever put together this Minecraft server. I
       | don't even think it's a for-profit thing, as far as I can tell,
       | it's fully non-profit.
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | I've been programming for 15 years and had to google what NAND
         | was. Had a sense of XOR
        
           | bergenty wrote:
           | All the Ns are just the opposites.
        
           | groffee wrote:
           | That's not something you should be so quick to tell people.
        
             | brailsafe wrote:
             | Heh, roasted. I know you're being a bit facetious, but it's
             | not like I haven't used them, but in terms of the acronyms
             | and maybe actually using them as bitwise operations, it's
             | something I've rarely needed in JS programming. If you
             | aren't being facetious, then you might need to work on
             | humility
        
             | ch4s3 wrote:
             | Oh come on! There are a lot of types of programming and
             | most of them exist pretty far from logic gates. The
             | previous poster probably understands the concepts from
             | their work but doesn't relate them to logic gates.
        
               | brailsafe wrote:
               | Ya that's basically what I meant. The concepts are
               | arguably unavoidable if you've done enough.
        
           | thendrill wrote:
           | You would be surprised how much more relevant info
           | programmers miss...
           | 
           | Example, most programmers I know have no idea when a variable
           | gets allocated on the stack and when it's on the heap.
           | 
           | Let's not talk about how many dont even know what a (stack ov
           | erflow)[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_buffer_overflow
           | ] is...
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | I remember being shocked to discover that a recent CS grad
             | could not implement a factorial function using recursion. I
             | can understand why you wouldn't want to do that, but to not
             | be able to do it?
        
               | lumost wrote:
               | _a lot_ of CS undergrads compress out recursion
               | knowledge. They learn that most recursion is best skipped
               | in favor of iteration /dp, and they learn that they
               | should implement things efficiently.
               | 
               | It's possible the undergrad assumed you were referring to
               | an efficient recursive algorithm or simply forgot most
               | recursion.
        
               | brailsafe wrote:
               | Heh, I just did the DS+A section of a Faang interview,
               | and got the time and space complexity of an optimal
               | solution more or less correct, as well as most of a
               | recursive binary search implementation, but not quite
               | there. I stumble with recursion because syntactically
               | it's something you either have to use a lot or
               | deliberately practice to have a keen sense of return
               | values imo.
               | 
               | Probably won't get an offer because of that. Do I feel
               | like as a frontend engineer I really need that knowledge?
               | Not really. I could work it out for work purposes if I
               | needed to tho. I'd be practicing it just to pass
               | interviews.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | wongarsu wrote:
           | To be fair, AND, OR and NOT are enough to compute any
           | function, and you can make all the other operators out of a
           | combination of those three. For example A XOR B is just (A OR
           | B) AND (NOT (A AND B)). Knowing things beyond AND, OR or NOT
           | is useful, but not strictly necessary. XOR has useful
           | properties though: with random inputs you get TRUE 50% of the
           | time, allowing you to chain it without trending to 0 or 1;
           | also it's the opposite of bitwise equality.
           | 
           | The others aren't that interesting if you aren't dealing with
           | hardware, and their function is obvious if you know the
           | naming convention.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | You only need one of {AND, OR} too.
             | 
             | ((a or b) is (not ((not a) and (not b))), and vice versa.)
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | Nah, all you need are nand gates. Everything else can be
             | implemented from those.
        
               | dan-robertson wrote:
               | Yeah, similarly in mathematics they often like to build
               | everything up from 'implies' where the rule is
               | implies(a,b) = or(not(a), b) = nand(a,nand(b, b)).
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | dpz wrote:
        
             | anon84873628 wrote:
             | The truth is that you can be a successful computer software
             | developer and not need to know much at all about how
             | computers work. Or even how things like compilers work.
             | 
             | Some of us never even studied in a CS program - gasp!
        
               | SmellTheGlove wrote:
               | It's all layers of abstraction, right? While it's good to
               | have a basic understanding of how the whole stack works,
               | it's also a feature and a goal of those building the
               | lower levels to enable others to operate at higher levels
               | independent of that knowledge.
               | 
               | Taking this away from software for a second, I know a
               | hell of a lot of people skilled in their professions that
               | have no idea exactly how their cars work but they drive
               | them just fine.
        
         | abrax3141 wrote:
         | Redstone is fun, and some people do amazing builds with it, but
         | it gets tedious fast; like building your own computer from
         | transistors - fun ... once! :-) But Minecraft has an incredible
         | amount of richness once you get into modding and command blocks
         | (although it's a shame that they don't have a proper lua built
         | in.) Speaking of which, there's powder toy, which DOES have
         | built in Lua.
        
         | None4U wrote:
        
           | AeroNotix wrote:
           | Immediately jumping to this kind of thinking completely ruins
           | the will for people to get involved with these kinds of
           | initiatives.
           | 
           | OP didn't even hint that they thought this could be an issue
           | but you did and now any discussion of people involved is
           | tainted under the potential that they may be a pedophile.
        
           | credit_guy wrote:
           | A little bit. I keep an eye on what he's doing there, which
           | is quite easy, as he just won't stop talking about it. It's
           | also an opportunity for me to teach him, but in a way that he
           | finds exciting. If one day I had decided to teach him XOR or
           | NAND, he would've found it very boring. This way, he comes to
           | me with questions, and I can pick up a piece of paper and
           | show him what a truth table is, and he soaks it up. He feels
           | like he's cheating a bit at the game, because he has a Dad
           | who helps him on the side, but no one knows, so he progresses
           | very quickly and everyone thinks he's very smart.
        
           | mlyle wrote:
           | IMO, much better to progressively teach your kids about
           | safety (online and off) and to do your best to monitor/keep
           | track of what's going on, and ensure you have good lines of
           | communication open with your kids and have them know that
           | they can come to you without reprisal...
           | 
           | than to try and keep them in a bubble and eliminate all
           | possibility they could meet someone predatory.
        
           | dopamean wrote:
           | What?
        
         | 0xedd wrote:
        
         | earlyriser wrote:
         | My kid has been into Minecraft for years, even before he had
         | permission to play videogames. This year (he's 9) he started
         | making 3d models and textures with Blockbench, and added them
         | into his MCreator mod. It's a great gateway to learn stuff.
        
       | beckman466 wrote:
       | i wish DIY.org (specifically Zack Klein -and team's earlier
       | versions) was available as free/open source software libraries
       | (and not just available for kids). a decommoditized, advertising-
       | free and networked maker space everywhere
        
       | cnees wrote:
       | 11 is around the age I got into coding petpages on Neopets. They
       | don't support JavaScriptor CSS3, and certain classes have to be
       | inclined, but the contraints are what make it fun.
        
       | solardev wrote:
       | If she likes electronics at all, I thought these were super
       | cool... wish they made those when I was a kid!
       | 
       | Snap-in educational and fully functional circuits:
       | https://www.elenco.com/snap-circuits-2/
       | 
       | Science & crafts toys:
       | https://www.johncoproductions.com/collections/4m
       | 
       | Green & renewable energy toys:
       | https://www.johncoproductions.com/collections/green-science
       | 
       | (Edit: For the second two links, apparently that is a non-US
       | vendor. Sorry about that. But those toys are also commonly
       | available in the US, at toy stores and often, museum gift stores)
        
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