[HN Gopher] Microrobots can brush and floss teeth in a proof-of-... ___________________________________________________________________ Microrobots can brush and floss teeth in a proof-of-concept study Author : geox Score : 202 points Date : 2022-07-06 13:36 UTC (9 hours ago) (HTM) web link (penntoday.upenn.edu) (TXT) w3m dump (penntoday.upenn.edu) | Jistern wrote: | Victerius wrote: | Nanomachines, son! They brush my teeth in response to | mastication. | stjohnswarts wrote: | Don't masticate with your mouth open | [deleted] | linsomniac wrote: | ProTip: I went from rarely flossing to basically every day with | "this one weird trick": I now floss my teeth in the shower. I | like staying in the shower a little longer, so the 2 minutes went | from chore to luxury. And the amount of food I remove on a daily | basis is astonishing! | matsemann wrote: | Isn't the science on flossing not showing any benefit? | | Edit: looked it up. No solid scientific evidence flossing | helps. | Aaronstotle wrote: | Only floss the teeth you want to keep | justinpombrio wrote: | That's what I thought. Then I tried not flossing, and my gums | got unhealthy and started bleeding a lot in like two weeks. | My teeth aren't unusual; I wouldn't expect to be that much of | an outlier; so not sure what was going on in those studies | that I also had heard about. | AussieWog93 wrote: | Bro, you don't need a paper to demonstrate the benefit of | flossing. | | Just get right in there at the back with some decent floss | (Oral B Satin Tape is good), and taste the rotten, disgusting | food you remove. That's what the people around you are | smelling every day when you exhale. | matsemann wrote: | Don't be an ass, don't imply my breath smells. Be better | than that. | doublerabbit wrote: | You can brush your teeth in the shower too. | uejfiweun wrote: | This is actually genius, I'm gonna start doing this as well. | Thank you for the great idea. | decebalus1 wrote: | Your comment reminded me of | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMQTg4Y0YT0 | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: | I get the comedy but now I'm wondering why he ordered a pair | of chinos if he doesn't plan to get out of the shower. | LewisVerstappen wrote: | Wait so, what do these microrobots actually look like? Are they | just small black bristles that you put in your mouth? | hanklazard wrote: | Yeah, the name is really misleading, if I'm understanding the | tech correctly. | Silica6149 wrote: | Iron nanoparticles controlled by a magnetic field it seems | like. | | The thing I'm curious about though is, how do they remove all | the iron particles afterward? Would I just get a month's dose | of iron each time this thing brushes my teeth? | upsidesinclude wrote: | Suck on a big bar magnet! | | Really, that would do. Better still would be an electro | magnetic retainer. Then the particles cloud be captured and | returned to a container. | | I doubt iron nano particles would be reusable, but you | wouldn't want them down the sink as they would likely be | nucleation points for rust | | Is anyone familiar with the health consequences of inhaling | or otherwise ingesting nano iron? | afterburner wrote: | More magnets? | MrYellowP wrote: | I don't recall where this story is from, but I've read it | somewhere. | | It's a story about a guy who invents _shaving microbots_ , which | you apply in your face, who do all the work. Iirc they were on a | gel, though ultimately that doesn't matter. At some point they | supposedly deactivate themselves for some reason I've forgotten, | to prevent them from doing harm in case they enter the body. | | The end of the story is that the inventor, who kept using his | microbots, eventually died of unknown cause. The autopsy showed | that he had pneumoconiosis/silicosis, aka a dry, dusty lung. | | Because he kept inhaling them. Microdroplets of liquid, | containing microbots. | | I believe this story isn't far fetched. Imagine you have | thousands of these teeth brushing bots in your mouth. If you have | some on the back of your throat, you will eventually have them in | your lungs. All it takes to accumulate enough of them to cause | issues is repeated use and time. | fileeditview wrote: | I guess this is the first step to nanosites[1] from "Diamond Age" | by Neal Stephenson. | | [1] https://en.gyaanipedia.com/wiki/Nanosite | prepend wrote: | I've been waiting, since reading that book, for nanobots that | brush my teeth, trim my hair, shave, etc so I wake up every | morning and not need to do this stuff. | Chris2048 wrote: | Wait, news on _actual_ irl Drexlerian nano? | | > may one day.. | | oh, nevermind. Microbots "may one day" do shit, not "can". | sillycube wrote: | peterlk wrote: | This is really neat. But I remain skeptical | | > In both instances, a catalytic reaction drives the | nanoparticles to produce antimicrobials that kill harmful oral | bacteria on site. | | So, what happens if I swallow this stuff that I'm putting in my | mouth? | system2 wrote: | This is probably one of the worst visual representation I've ever | seen. | samstave wrote: | So as an aside; Ciliac Disease is caused by the body falsely | thinking [this was that] and attacking its own internals... | | SO... | | Lets assume that you add these and then they get ingested (which | ALWAYS happens in brushing teeth) --> long term "micro-biome- | biotics" affect on gut biome) | | Gut biomes are the most important health aspect for nutrition we | should be plugging AI into... | | This seems like it will result in not-good outcomes.... Imagine | programming "toothpaste" such that the bots that ARE ingested | devour/destroy/attack/plant-payloads on cells in the system... | | --- | | Future Bio-Cyber-Nutrition attacks: | | A powder that is applied to a food substance that survives heat, | cooking ; results in the bio-breakdown or attack of the | individual. | | Level III: A recon biometrix that can be ingested and give the | gut bio of a target.... in order to create a specific attack | vector. | | Levvel IV: an agent who can determine dietary habits | | Level VI: Spore attributed to specific diets. | | --- | | Cyber warfare is not just computers ; its protein folding... | | When we were "folding proteins" for health.... Health can be - OR | + <-- When we use the term "for health" ... it is ofr hte '-' <-- | We are designing proteins to kill. Not heal. UNLESS you're Thiel. | neonological wrote: | kleer001 wrote: | Don't get too excited. It's | | >> ... a proof-of-concept study... | abdullahkhalids wrote: | Can anyone recommend an electric toothbrush? I have always used a | regular manual one, but lots of people including a dentist have | recommended an electric one. Wanna see what the hype is about. | NikolaNovak wrote: | I've used regular $10-$25 electric tooth brush for a decade and | assumed they're good enough. | | I've gotten Phillips Sonicare for holiday, and understanding | that this is anecdotal evidence, I am _shocked_ at its | increased ability to dislodge food from the crevices. I could | swear that sometimes the vibration it puts on the tooth, | dislodges food from places it 's not yet directly touching, | just through the vibration through the tooth, which never | happened with cheaper electric brushes. Overall, my teeth feel | far cleaner afterwards, kinda like after the dental hygienist | is done. So it gets my support, expensive as it may be. | throwamon wrote: | > Phillips Sonicare | | Which of them? There are many models, right? | feet wrote: | Most of them operate the same way when you consider just | the vibrating on the tooth part. They differentiate the | models with extra features like timers and Bluetooth or NFC | brush heads and whatnot | moffkalast wrote: | The cheapest model is already most of the way there, though | the higher end models do clean at twice the frequency so | those might be somewhat better. | NikolaNovak wrote: | It appears to me that they they are all "basically good | enough" and very different to the $10-$25 electric brushes. | My wife has fancy, I have basic model, and honestly we | can't really tell the difference. | | I don't really find value in timers, beeps, bluetooth, etc. | whateveracct wrote: | The cheap Oral B one is fine in my book. I've gone through a | couple (battery slows down over the years). Honestly the no1 | feature of an electric toothbrush is the timer (30s x4). | sudofail wrote: | Philips Sonicare is the way to go. Lot of different options, | but they're all great. | whartung wrote: | It's been awhile, but back when I tried one I didn't care for | the Sonicare. Simply it made my hand numb. | moffkalast wrote: | Haha yeah it takes a week or two to get fully used to it, I | know a few people who just couldn't stomach it. | arnejenssen wrote: | Philips sonicare + Waterpik flosser. Sensodyne Repair&Protect | (has NOVAMIN that restores the teeth) | bl_valance wrote: | Oral-B Pro 1000, don't even look at the more "premium" | versions, all it has is extra bells-and-whistles like bluetooth | that really don't anything to its basic function. | tcoff91 wrote: | The oral-b ones are very good. Sonicare's have big reliability | issues in my experience. | downrightmike wrote: | Wasn't there a Professor in Florida I think that introduced a new | plasmid to the bacteria normally in our mouth and proved to | prevent tooth decay? I've tried to look for it, but haven't been | able to find it again. | ComputerCat wrote: | I wonder if in the future this could be used to help care for | people in long term hospital stays who are unable to brush/floss, | or people who require at home care. Very interesting idea but I | think it will take a long time for the general public to adopt | this tech. | colordrops wrote: | No thanks on putting nano-particles in my mouth. | todd8 wrote: | This was envisioned in a science fiction story or novel decades | ago, but I can't remember where I saw it! It might have been a | novel by Robert Heilein. It was just mentioned in passing in the | story, but since that time I've wondered if it will ever be | realized; I thought it might take the form of a small robot about | the size of a June bug that would slowly crawl around in one's | mouth while we were asleep. | 14 wrote: | As a health care worker this would be great for very fragile or | palliative clients where brushing effectively just isn't | possible. Fragile clients will often do a poor job or if you help | them they don't always tolerate how hard and long you need to | brush to be effective. Not to even mention flossing. And with | palliative patients they can often be bed bound and unconscious | to you can't really get in with a toothbrush and water and brush | properly. Instead they get a small piece of foam attached to a | stick basically and you rub it around their mouth and get any big | chunks out. Very poor effectiveness. For me good mouth care for | the palliative clients would be really nice to see. | gwbas1c wrote: | If you're young, don't laugh. | | Once I turned 40 my dental hygienists really spent a lot of time | educating me on how to properly brush my teeth. It really | requires delicate care. (Remember, most of our ancestors didn't | live to be old enough to need delicate dental hygiene.) | | If something like this works, it'll be wonderful. Carefully | cleaning my teeth when I'm half asleep is not fun. | throwamon wrote: | > most of our ancestors didn't live to be old enough to need | delicate dental hygiene | | They also didn't consume so much tooth-destroying garbage as we | do. | stjohnswarts wrote: | I think we consume 10-20 times as much sugar as people even | 100 years ago. It's pretty crazy, although white bread isn't | great for your teeth either since it's only one step away | from sugar. | moffkalast wrote: | Then again, medieval bread that was cut with sand wasn't | any better for teeth either. | safeimp wrote: | I turned 40 a few years ago and finally moved over to an | electric toothbrush and my dentist has noticed improvements. | | Ultimately an electric is similar to a human but I like that | it's consistent. Consistent pressure on my teeth and consistent | time in each quadrant as well. | bmau5 wrote: | If it makes you feel better most people don't brush their teeth | correctly (supposed to hold toothbrush at a 45 degree angle | along the tooth/gum line). I think there's another future where | brushing and flossing largely become obsolete. If we could | develop a more effective mouthwash tailored to restoring each | persons oral microbiome we could likely reduce the need for | brushing and flossing (and instead replace it with a daily | rinse). A lot easier than half asleep brushing! | thfuran wrote: | >Remember, most of our ancestors didn't live to be old enough | to need delicate dental hygiene.) | | Really low historical life expectancy figures are mostly due to | extremely high infant and childhood mortality as well as higher | mortality in childbirth. It's not like adults were elderly at | 40. | stjohnswarts wrote: | Yep, if you lived til 16 you could easily and not | surprisingly live to 60, after that it goes down hill pretty | fast for most people without modern medicine...They didn't | have a lot of retirement plans back then unless you were | lucky enough to have some kids that wanted to keep grandpa | around. | bmau5 wrote: | This is very interesting and has a lot of potential, especially | for people who struggle to brush their teeth, but I think there's | another future where brushing and flossing largely become | obsolete. If we could develop a more effective mouthwash tailored | to restoring each persons oral microbiome we could likely reduce | the need for brushing and flossing and instead replace it with a | daily mouth rinse that clears out food debris and selectively | targets pathogenic bacteria while promoting healthy species. | | I'm a bit biased, though, because this is something we're working | towards building at my company down the road. | throwaway4837 wrote: | Wouldn't the mouthwash need abrasive particles as well? Part of | why Listerine doesn't replace brushing and flossing is because | it has a much smaller mechanical component in the washing | process. The physical rubbing of bristles and wire through and | around the teeth creates the physical abrasion that is | necessary to remove large films of plaque. | | I imagine without any sort of abrasive, the liquid would need | to be dangerously strong to remove tougher plaque. | Retric wrote: | Preventing plaque formation avoids the need to remove it. | | Actually accomplishing that seems unlikely, but not | impossible. | klipt wrote: | A keto diet without sugar or starch should prevent most | plaque formation, shouldn't it? | Retric wrote: | No, a balanced keto diet might be moderately better than | a normal diet in terms of plaque, but even wild cats | living on a nearly 100% meat diet still get dental | plaque. | rhinoceraptor wrote: | There has been work done is creating GM S. mutans that | don't produce biofilms, and that would replace your native | S. mutans. It could be done by just brushing your teeth | with a toothbrush treated with the bacteria so it would | cost pennies per treatment. | [deleted] | Retric wrote: | That's a long way from actually replacing brushing and | flossing. | | For one thing, streptococcus sobrinus is more closely | associated with cavity formation than streptococcus | mutans. But more importantly these biofilms are a | significant evolutionary advantage so this replacement is | an unstable situation. Some positive benefits are likely, | just don't assume it can work alone. | arrosenberg wrote: | Biofilms are an evolutionary advantage for the bacteria, | not the host. Biofilms make the colony much, much harder | to kill. How advantageous can it be to the host anyways, | if 4 out of 5 dentists recommends obliterating it 2-3x a | day? | dataangel wrote: | They may indirectly be an advantage for the host because | if the bacteria aren't competitive they will get replaced | by bacteria that are. The devil you know... | godelski wrote: | Yes. Talk to your dental hygienist and they will confirm | this. Mine told me a story recently of when she was in school | they were graded on how little plaque they had on their | teeth. So her and all her friends did everything they could. | New toothbrushes, flossing, the metal scrapers, and helping | each other. No one removed everything and I guess that's the | point of the lesson. Plaque builds up quickly and over time. | What harms teeth and gums is far more than microbes. | | But that also seems like where nanobots would come in. If you | could have a mouth wash that had nanobots that would perform | that abrasive scrubbing and then decay (and not leave | byproducts) then it would help and could replace brushing and | flossing. But definitely mouthwash is nowhere near the | effectiveness of brushing nor flossing. Would be a cool | future, but I suspect we're still a long way from that. | rhinoceraptor wrote: | Why not just continue the work that's already been done in | developing GM strains of S. mutans that don't produce biofilms? | legalcorrection wrote: | This doesn't sound possible. A big component of oral hygiene is | removing the relatively large chunks of food that are hiding | invisibly between your teeth. If you leave them there, they | will rot and smell bad and cause other issues like infections. | You need a physical object like the bristles of a tooth brush | and/or floss to physically dislodge the bits of food. That's | why every culture developed some way to clean their teeth. | cheschire wrote: | GP did say "replace" but they also said "reduce" so I'm | thinking they meant replace the majority of brushing, but | probably not all of it. If they had an effective way of | removing lettuce from teeth chemically, I'd be afraid of side | effects. | bmau5 wrote: | Yes, thank you for catching this. As the comment above | pointed out there will still be a need for removing larger | food particles and hard to reach areas, but ideally with | the addition of the mouthwash/intervention I'm mentioning | we could drastically reduce the incidence of oral disease. | uoaei wrote: | It doesn't seem far-fetched to imagine a chewing-gum-like | substance which achieves this. | Victerius wrote: | Like a dishwasher but for teeth? | coryrc wrote: | Some people rarely brush their teeth and never get cavities. | Some people brush thrice daily and floss and still get | cavities and need root canals. | | The working theory is we could all be in the first group with | the right bacteria in our mouth. | throwaway4837 wrote: | Those two groups are likely differentiated on diet. For | starters, diet can overload your mouth with complex and | simple sugars, but diet can also determine the bacterial | makeup of your mouth. | 13of40 wrote: | No idea where it eventually led, but I read about work | done back in the 80s to vaccinate against the bacteria | that cause tooth decay. That suggests that some people | might have natural immunity to them. | maxerickson wrote: | It's also pretty likely that there is variation in enamel | formation and hardness (driven by genetic differences). | bmau5 wrote: | That's it exactly. Some beneficial species play an active | role in suppressing the pathogenic species (those that | release acid or cause gum disease) and have other benefits | including helping us break down dietary nitrate into nitric | oxide, which is critical for heart/brain health. | | My company tests/researches the oral microbiome and we're | starting to discover the signatures of what puts people in | one group vs. the other, with hopes of helping develop more | personalized approaches down the road, but for now helping | people understand what will work best for them. | | Here's my company for anyone who is interested in learning | more: https://www.bristlehealth.com/ | rkagerer wrote: | What's preventing you from shipping to Canada, and any | plans to expand outside the US in the future? | comeondude wrote: | This is very cool. | | What's your take on xytiol gums? Think they're effective | in changing our oral microdiome for the better? | jrootabega wrote: | I'm also curious about this, but unfortunately I think | that's where it will end for me in practice. Even if | xylitol is effective, it seems the xylitol you'll get in | any products (at least in the US) is going to be | industrial byproduct from sketchy unregulated sources, | just with greenwashed packaging. If there is a gum or | rinse out there that is transparent and credible about | their source of xylitol, and it's a source you can trust | with your health, I'd love to try it out. | | (I admit that you can probably say the same thing about | any toothpaste you can buy in the US. But those have at | least some additional benefits from regulation.) | bmau5 wrote: | The initial data on xylitol looks promising for reducing | cavities! Particularly for stimulating saliva production | (dry mouth is a large contributor to cavities risk) and | as a sugar substitute that cavity-causing species can't | digest into acid. I'm excited to see more research come | out and compare it with our data. | newscracker wrote: | Could it also be about the level of salivation in general, | since saliva also helps kill some bacteria and keep the | mouth cleaner (relatively)? | bmau5 wrote: | I was referring to something more along the lines of what the | above comment mentions (rebalancing with beneficial | bacteria), but there are companies working on something like | a dishwasher for teeth, one example is below: | | https://freshhealth.com/ | svantana wrote: | I find it strange that there is so little innovation in the field | of everyday tooth care. Particularly the inefficiency of brushing | one tooth at a time. I like the idea of https://blizzbrush.com/, | has anyone tried it? It's a bit suspicious that the single-pack | is "sold out", but the 5 and 10-packs are not. | dubswithus wrote: | I remember some articles about good bacteria outcompeting bad | bacteria in the mouth and preventing cavities. Seems like it | probably didn't pan out. | moffkalast wrote: | Nah it did, the problem is you have to take a pill every day | and they cost way too much for that sort of frequent usage. | Like $60 per 20 pills kind of price, which is hard to justify | without hard proven evidence of actual benefit. | bsenftner wrote: | In grad school, one of my friends worked for a US medical | device manufacturer. They had several dental innovations that | they did not bother to market in the US because the regulation | to get approval out weighed what they felt the market offered. | They made their profits in other countries and were happy with | that. | jklinger410 wrote: | Capitalism only creates innovations where there is potential | for expanding profits. Permanently fixing teeth is infinitely | less profitable than keeping them in a constant state of | disrepair. | Komodai wrote: | This looks like a really bad dropshipping site... | | Especially considering the fact they've imported reviews from | elsewhere, like AliExpress (even has the same name format, | C**e). | f6v wrote: | Have you seen how much it costs to get crowns or implants? | There's zero incentive for innovation, people keep bringing | their money. | BolexNOLA wrote: | I would like to think that most dentists like their patients | to have healthy, cared for teeth and that they play in | important role in it. I would not like to think that most of | them actually work to our detriment so that they can do more | expensive, painful procedures on our mouths and teeth. That's | a pretty cynical outlook I'd need to see evidence for. | dr_orpheus wrote: | Generally, I would agree that most dentists want their | patients to have healthy teeth. In my dentists they seem | relatively thorough and consistent in what they observe | with my teeth as far as health and function. And they are | pretty specific with preventative measures that don't make | them money (recommendations on possible problem areas to | make sure to focus on for flossing brushing) and some that | do (mouth guard to prevent grinding). | | HOWEVER, all of the dentists that I have had push cosmetic | procedures really hard. Teeth whitening, alignment | (cosmetic only), caps (cosmetic only). | david_l_lin wrote: | All you need to do is visit the dentistry reddit sub and | look at threads like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dentist | ry/comments/vnv25a/how_is_he.... They all operate on | "production" because billing is top priority. | BolexNOLA wrote: | I don't doubt that money is their highest priority, as | that is the case for most people when it comes to their | job. But the implication that they are sabotaging our | teeth or giving bad advice in order to be able to bill us | for bigger procedures down the line is a much bigger | claim. | abrichr wrote: | It happens. From | https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/the- | tro... : | | > Year after year, Lund had performed certain procedures | at extraordinarily high rates. Whereas a typical dentist | might perform root canals on previously crowned teeth in | only 3 to 7 percent of cases, Lund was performing them in | 90 percent of cases. As Zeidler later alleged in court | documents, Lund had performed invasive, costly, and | seemingly unnecessary procedures on dozens and dozens of | patients, some of whom he had been seeing for decades. | Terry Mitchell and Joyce Cordi were far from alone. In | fact, they had not even endured the worst of it. | BolexNOLA wrote: | Of course it happens. I didn't say, "it never happens." | I'm saying most dentists don't behave that way. | moffkalast wrote: | They don't have to sabotage people, all they have to do | is nothing - in terms of researching new better ways to | prevent issues - and they're already set. | chasebank wrote: | A close friend of mine is a dental hygienist. He once | worked for a dentist in Ketchum, ID who had all the | hygienists on a commission structure. Basically he was told | to "sell" procedures that were virtually not necessary. | Some of his coworkers were making $250k/yr as hygenists... | Needless to say, he couldn't stomach it and left the | practice. He's worked for many dentists and he ultimately | left the field because the majority of clinics he worked | for tended to be a business first and look after your best | interests second. | prepend wrote: | I'd like to think that, but my dentist makes about | $170/year from me having healthy teeth. They make | $1500/crown (in addition to the $170 for cleaning). | | I've been to three dentists this year. I find it | interesting that one said I had an emergency and needed a | crown right away (a year ago), one said they'd watch the | tooth, and one said nothing. | | Cynically, I don't like agency issues where experts make | lots of money off their advice and it's difficult to double | check. | stjohnswarts wrote: | I had a dentist for several years and everything was | normal just clean and go. A new hygenist shows up and | suddently "You have severe plaque below the gum line we | need to do a deep cleaning (root scaling/planing)" so | they do that and it's almost $500, next time rolls around | and she says it again and dentist concurs. I had been | brushing and flossing diligently (probably too much) | since the last time and just looking at my teeth saw | nearly no plaque. I left and said I'd call them back to | schedule. I go to a new dentist the following week and | they say I have lovely teeth and it looks like I've been | taking great care of them, then I tell the dentist what | the previous one had said and he's like "listen, I'm not | going to bad mouth anyone, but your teeth look great, | they just need a typical cleaning that you came in for". | That's when I knew something was really wrong with the | other place, so it happens. I know my story is anecdotal. | Personally I think my old dentist got rid of her previous | hygenist that wouldn't agree to hornswoggle patients and | they tried to get me to do expensive treatments. | Guest9081239812 wrote: | Both myself and my partner had similar experiences at the | dentist. They found work that needed to be done, we got | second opinions, and were told something completely | different. | | I stopped trusting dentists since then. If I can feel or | see a problem (in the mirror or in xrays), then sure, | I'll get it fixed. But, if my teeth feel perfectly fine, | I'm not going to rush into getting them drilled out. | sAbakumoff wrote: | My daily tooth care consists of 3 steps: | | 1. Clean between teeth by using an interdental brush | | 2. Clean between teeth by using a water flosser | | 3. Clean teeth surface by using an electric brush. | | I am not sure how would the sponge replace these 3 steps. | texaslonghorn5 wrote: | Based on the video, I wouldn't implicitly trust the brush to | have enough precision to hit the small chunks of food at the | gumline. | amelius wrote: | I want something that I can use in the office (i.e., without | easy access to a sink). | bilsbie wrote: | It's just an over regulated industry where it's too expensive | to try new things. | diob wrote: | Dentistry exists all over the world... | LeonM wrote: | There is quite some innovation, but consumers are slow to adopt | IMO. | | Last year, my dentist warned me I have quite severe receded | gums. This was due to me pushing my toothbrush too hard. | | So, after doing some research I bought an ultrasonic | toothbrush. These have a static head (it does not | oscillate/rotate) which emits ultrasonic waves to clean your | teeth. Same principle of an ultrasonic parts cleaner. The head | is still a traditional brush, though very soft. The brush is | used to transfer the sound waves, you do not use it to 'scrub' | your teeth. There is not friction involved. | | From my experience, I can highly recommend an ultrasonic | toothbrush. It takes some time to get used to, but personally, | I will never go back to a traditional 'friction' type brush | (manual or electric). | | The model I have is the Silkin' ToothWave. Prices have come | down significantly since I bought mine (I paid >EUR200 IIRC, | now they are ~EUR90). | | Note that some vendors sell traditional 'friction type' | oscillating electronic toothbrushes with ultrasonic as a | feature. In my opinion, these do not offer much benefit, it is | better to go for a fully ultrasonic model. | afterburner wrote: | Interesting. I've also had success using a Sonicare but | always moving from the gums to the tooth (instead of along | the gumline as the manual suggests). | dubswithus wrote: | How often do you change brush heads? They are quite expensive | at $15/piece. | LeonM wrote: | I have used it for about a year now, and haven't need to | change them yet. It comes with 2 brushes in the box, and | I'm still using the first brush, it is not showing any | signs of wear. | | The main thing is that you do not need to brush with any | friction. You just move the brush gently over your teeth, | so they barely wear. | | For me this is also why I like it. With traditional hand | brushes, I'd wear them out in 3 months or so. In hindsight | this was a clear indicator that I was pushing way to hard | on them. | dubswithus wrote: | Is this different technology? I have one of these but | haven't used it in years. | | https://techcrunch.com/2010/07/09/solar-powered- | toothbrush/ | d1sxeyes wrote: | Looks like 250 EUR on their website? | LeonM wrote: | Looks like that pricing has not been updated for a while. I | paid something like 200 euros, that was about a year ago. | Most online retailers in my country now list them for less | than 100 euros. | jachee wrote: | Weird. In Dutch (https://silkn.nl/toothwave-black) it's | EUR119. | | In English (both EU and GB), French, Spanish, and German | ( e.g. https://silkn.eu/toothwave-black) it's EUR249. | AaronM wrote: | FYI, at least one review of multiple studies have shown that | ultrasonic tooth brushes are no better than sonic | toothbrushes. | | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7175112/ | amelius wrote: | I'm not sure if I am comfortable with the idea of sending | ultrasonic waves into the brain every day ... | mattkrause wrote: | This isn't a totally crazy concern: focused ultrasound | (fUS) can be used to modulate brain activity non-invasively | (or even make therapeutic lesions). | | However, a toothbrush is almost certainly not going to do | that. The skull's impedance is way too high for the dinky | transducer in your toothbrush and even if it weren't, you | need to do all sorts of clever corrections to focus the | ultrasound on a particular spot. | tiahura wrote: | Maybe it prevents Alzheimer's? | kwanbix wrote: | Where do you get them for 90? I only see them at 190 in | Germany. | | https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/ProductCategory/3233.ht. | .. | LeonM wrote: | You can get it here for 99 euro in the Netherlands: | https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/silk-n-toothwave-elektrische- | tan... | dubswithus wrote: | https://silkn.eu/toothwave | | This site has them for 250 euro. I assume that's the | cheapest for a US customer that is ordering? | | Oh, they don't ship to the US. How do US customers buy | this? | skocznymroczny wrote: | Are these ultrasonic toothbrushes actually using ultrasonic | waves? I have an expensive sonicare toothbrush and a cheap | noname $10 "sonic" toothbrush from the supermarket and can't | really tell the difference between both. Both feel like a | standard toothbrush with a phone vibrating motor put inside. | Hellbanevil wrote: | hanniabu wrote: | Not buying it. That would only work if it were firmer because | as it is now I'm extremely doubtful your teeth will magically | fall into those grooves when the sponge has so little | structure. On top of that it seems hard to clean, A toothbrush | is open and has short bristles and often after rinsing it I'll | look and still find debris where I need to clean again and | deliberately get pieces out. | unsupp0rted wrote: | Totally agree there's too little innovation in this field. | | I hadn't heard of the Buzz Brush and it's fascinating to me, | although it does look half-baked and too indie at the moment | for me to trust it with my dental health. | | Also it's too expensive to try as a throwaway test. | | Any other cool innovative products that replace standard | brushing? | dmcgee wrote: | Not that replace standard brushing, but I worked with a | company in Denmark called Novozymes. They produce enzymes for | a variety of applications including dental care. They have a | set of enzymes that they license to Unilever for a toothpaste | called Zendium, which has some market share in Northern | Europe. The enzymes break down microfilm that develops on | teeth, making brushing more effective. There was RCT done on | it I believe, I read the paper years ago, can't seem to find | it now though. | unsupp0rted wrote: | Any concern those enzymes would get swallowed and break | down membranes in the digestive tract? | macinjosh wrote: | If you are in the US, like me, you might not be aware of | Novamin toothpastes. They are available in other countries. It | is my understanding that it can enclose dentin tubules exposed | by enamel loss. | | This article provides some background: | | https://medium.com/@ravenstine/the-curious-history-of-novami... | 2Gkashmiri wrote: | I have, after years of deliberatng, decided to use an | electric toothbrush. Its been 2 years and I want to know | _what_ I should be expecting. Maybe I am sleepy when I a | brushing so I don 't notice but asking still. | | Novamin sounds interesting. Its available here on amazon so I | might splurge on it but again, what I am to expect out of it | as opposed to regular Colgate ? | nso wrote: | For me it removed that icy feeling. | nso wrote: | I've had bad teeth since adulthood, partly due to a | medication changing the pH of my saliva, and partly due to a | Pepsi addiction. | | I swear by the Novamin tooth paste, my life has gone from | always having small aches and icing in my teeth to my teeth | hardly being a factor anymore. | stjohnswarts wrote: | been doing nano-hydroxyapatite for the same reason. I use | stannous fluoride based toothpaste in the morning and nhdpa | at night before bed. | safeimp wrote: | I was considering this recently based on a thread from last | week: | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31954800 | | Do you have a reliable source to purchase? I've no interest | in purchasing via Amazon, wouldn't feel comfortable trusting | the content. | abrichr wrote: | CPP-ACFP (a.k.a. Recaldent) is better than Novamin, at least | according to one study: | | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6006878/ | Silica6149 wrote: | This sponge you put in your mouth made me think for the first | time about how much bacteria is potentially on a normal | toothbrush. | | I'm betting this product is even less hygienic since it's a | sponge instead of only bristles. | bamboozled wrote: | Why not leave your toothbrush in hydrogen peroxide overnight? | Silica6149 wrote: | Good idea, it's just I never thought twice about the | cleanliness of a toothbrush. I guess it's been ingrained in | me to think it's normal to run a toothbrush under water to | "clean" it. | DoingIsLearning wrote: | I remember a myth busters episode where they demonstrated | that toothbrushes left in open air will easily get fecal | matter on the brush hairs due to aerosolized poop from | when you flush an open lid toilet. Definitely a great | conversation ice-breaker. | petercooper wrote: | If that's the case, I'm going to convince myself that I'm | doing my immune system some good exposing it to such | horrors in minute quantities.. | kurthr wrote: | After confirming that a toilet flush does emit an aerosol | spray, Adam builds a rack to hold 44 toothbrushes at | various distances from the toilet in the shop, as well as | two controls kept in the office. Each day, Adam and Jamie | exposed the brushes to toothpaste and rinsed with | distilled water, with brushing with a pair kept right | above the toilet bowl. Fecal coliforms were indeed found | on all the test brushes, including the control ones, but | none at a level high enough to be dangerous. A | microbiologist from UCSF confirmed that such coliforms | were impossible to completely avoid, and that there was | no significant difference in the number of bacteria based | on where the toothbrushes were placed in respect to the | toilet bowl. This surprising result prompts the narrator | to proclaim "Some myths are best left unanswered!" | | Since the controls were kept in his office... it does | seem like it's impossible to avoid fecal coliform | bacteria. | liotier wrote: | Are toilets in the bathroom common in your country ? | Here, in France, they are a separate room - which also | helps with multiple simultaneous uses. | afterburner wrote: | They're common in North America, maybe because having | bigger houses and therefore having multiple bathrooms is | also more common. | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: | I've never seen a bathroom without a toilet in it in | France. Is it regional? Or could it be a matter of the | types of lodgings like flats v.s homes? | DoingIsLearning wrote: | I've seen the splitinh in actual house in the Netherlands | and Belgium so maybe some Northern France houses also | split? | criley2 wrote: | It's considered luxury in the united states to have the | toilet enclosed in a smaller room inside the bathroom. | Most American cities are expensive enough per sqft that | it's certainly not standard to have a larger bathroom | capable of enclosed toilets. | | Even growing up in a lower cost of living area, I would | associate a master bathroom with an enclosed toilet room | as a luxury or wealthy amenity. | knicholes wrote: | Good to know. I've always wondered why my bathroom has a | separate little closet-sized room with a toilet. I always | thought it was worse because you can't wash your hands | until after you've touched the flusher handle and the | door knob. Of course any reasonable person with two hands | will use separate hands, but it's just weird to me. | | Additionally, there was a towel rack in that room. I took | it down because, again, it makes no sense. Why would | anyone need a towel in the toilet room? | rusticpenn wrote: | You are supposed to change the brush every few months | precisely for this reason. | DoingIsLearning wrote: | I thought it was because the hairs on the brush get | 'blunt' from erosion on your teeth. The 'applied science' | guy had an electron microscope capture of new and old | toothbrushes and it was the differences between needle | sharp edges and worn out clubs. | prepend wrote: | It has bacteria that was already in your mouth right? | Unless the bacteria multiplies and grows outside of your | mouth I don't think it's much of an issue. | stjohnswarts wrote: | It isn't but some people want things 100% germ free so | they'll jump through hoops to sanitize. I wash my hands, | rinse the head of the brush, and use a peas sized bit of | toothpaste, brush a couple minutes. Twice a day. Electric | toothbrushes are too complicated and annoying. Toss after | three months. You can also use a stannous fluoride based | tooth paste as well as it has germ fighting capabilities | over and above regular fluoride based toothpaste if | that's your jam. I use boka which is a nano- | hydroxyapatite based toothpaste like is commonly used in | japan. No cavities in the past decade and hygenist always | complements me on making her job easy. I use stannous | fluoride in the mornings and n-hdap at night before I go | to bed. | amelius wrote: | Do you refresh the H2O2 every day? | latchkey wrote: | My wife uses those denture cleaner pills. They work | amazingly well. | vkou wrote: | The point of brushing your teeth isn't sterilizing them. The | point of brushing your teeth is to reduce the number of | nutrients for bacteria to feed on, and to physically disrupt | their environment - like running a lawnmower over an anthill. | knicholes wrote: | Isn't there something about changing the ph balance? | david_l_lin wrote: | I think it's because incumbents in the space have played a huge | role in preventing adoption of new technologies that actually | prevent disease. Dentists make money not from preventing | disease, but from performing procedures when disease has | already progressed to the point of no return. | | Cavities and gum disease are bacterial infections that are | completely preventable. I feel the need to plug what we've been | building at https://www.bristlehealth.com/. We've built an at- | home test that leverages the microbes in the mouth to detect | disease, and provide actionable and personalized | recommendations that can reduce your risk of gum disease, | cavities and persistent bad breath. | barbazoo wrote: | > Dentists make money not from preventing disease, but from | performing procedures when disease has already progressed to | the point of no return. | | I find that hard to believe as dentists wouldn't be the group | of people I'd imagine developing those new ideas and | products. How would that work? | yunohn wrote: | Nobody wants to go to the dentist until it's too late, | because it's so expensive nor covered by health insurance. | | Even if it's not intentional, dentists aren't R&D | specialists. They're a service, at a premium price, whose | livelihood depends on people going for treatments. | barbazoo wrote: | What lever do they have to prevent new products from | being developed that help people take care of their | teeth? | wmeredith wrote: | They don't have one. There is no lever. This is | conspiracy theory nonsense, but even if there was a lever | they wouldn't need to pull it. | | I move in social circles with a lot of people from the | dental care industry and I can tell you that no one is | worried about running out of treatment opportunities. | | I've met hundreds of dentists over the last 18 years and | they all spend their days asking patients to brush and | floss. It's a simple thing, it's pretty cheap, and | prevents almost all oral diseases regardless of diet or | genetics. It's easier than changing your diet. It's a LOT | easier than changing your mouth biome. It's practically a | miracle cure when done regularly with decent technique. | | And... _the vast majority of people simply don't brush | and floss like they should_. I 'd guess that the group | that does is about the same size as those who actually | get enough exercise, which is about 23.2% in America[1]. | People consume mind-boggling amounts of refined sugars | and generally don't take care of their teeth. | | There is no sinister cabal keeping people in cavities and | gum disease because, it's simply not needed. | | [1]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/exercise.htm | yunohn wrote: | The lever is the lack of funding and motivation brought | about by the previous factors. It's not an individual | choice, rather a medical industry wide systemic issue. | | A popular example: | https://finance.yahoo.com/news/goldman-sachs-asks- | biotech-re... | moffkalast wrote: | This seems a pretty likely reason, especially when you see | this sort of thing even for regular medicine: | https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing- | patie... | | Dental is so much more profit oriented that it would be | actually insane to think they're devoting R&D towards | something like preventative medicine. | whoomp12342 wrote: | idk, I think the 1 pack means that people are wiling to try it | but have not decided as a mass if they want to continue use. It | doesnt mean its a bad product | runnerup wrote: | For me the "unbreakable" floss string combined with a floss | pick in this particular product: https://www.amazon.com/DenTek- | Triple-Clean-Floss-Picks/dp/B0... was a massive innovation that | finally allowed me to regularly floss easily at the age of ~30. | | Prior to that I couldn't handle the floss string well, and all | other floss picks (even nearly identical ones from the exact | same brand) just snap apart between my very closely-spaced | teeth. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-07-06 23:00 UTC)