[HN Gopher] Assassin's Creed Liberation delisted, unplayable eve...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Assassin's Creed Liberation delisted, unplayable even to owners
       starting Sept 1
        
       Author : josephcsible
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2022-07-10 21:58 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mp1st.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mp1st.com)
        
       | tomc1985 wrote:
       | I think this is unprecendented with Steam. I have heard of games
       | being delisted but I can't recall Valve ever removing them from
       | peoples' libraries.
       | 
       | If I owned a copy of this game on Steam I'd be requesting a
       | refund immediately; they have been known to make exceptions to
       | the standard 2-hours rule under special circumstances.
       | 
       | Also, Steam has a game files backup feature, it might be a good
       | idea to use that and wait for someone to figure out how to
       | disable Steam DRM
        
         | Shank wrote:
         | It's not Steam's DRM -- the game relies on a server system
         | hosted by Ubisoft, which is being shut down on September 1st.
         | You'll still technically be able to download and execute the
         | game binary on Steam but it won't connect and won't let you in
         | to actually play.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | its not steam, its ubisoft DRM servers
        
         | smileybarry wrote:
         | This is almost definitely because Ubisoft shipped this with
         | some SecuROM-alike DRM and doesn't want to keep paying
         | _pennies_ for activation servers. If we're lucky, they probably
         | even opted out of offline machine keys (because "piracy") so
         | that the game will stop running because reactivation will fail.
        
       | ConstantVigil wrote:
       | What will likely end up happening is the more dedicated fans of
       | the series will do what others have done with old MMO's and make
       | their own servers and such to ensure the game stays playable.
       | 
       | There may be some legal issues, but once Ubisoft does this on
       | Sep. 1st, there are some technicalities surrounding vaporware and
       | such that make it legal to 'own' the game without ever paying for
       | it, etc and so forth. Running servers to make it playable again
       | as well would also be fair-game as well as I understand it.
       | 
       | But I am not a lawyer, so if anyone knows better please by all
       | means say so; but keep in mind I speak from the Canadian side of
       | the law. So there may be differences that matter.
        
       | keyle wrote:
       | What annoys me about this the most is the message from Steam,
       | that sort of plays along with this.
       | 
       | "This game is no longer available for sale on Steam". No big
       | deal, right.
       | 
       | Ok, fine, but it doesn't imply the servers going down and the
       | title becoming unplayable...
       | 
       | Then 2nd message:
       | 
       | "Please note this title won't be accessible from <date>..."
       | 
       | Once again, accessible doesn't imply "the game won't start,
       | thanks for the monies".
       | 
       | It's a bloody shame that I can start any games from the 90s on an
       | emulator and they run just as fine, even content heavy. While
       | these titles are completely riddled with DRM _and_ screw you over
       | after X years.
       | 
       | Publishers need to come clean, and after years of milking the
       | cow, they must have a plan allowing _paying_ customers to play
       | the title they 've been enjoying all these years. Otherwise, they
       | _should be forced_ to include the verbiage at release date  "This
       | title will stop working as of <date in the future>".
       | 
       | This kind of nonsense only promotes cracked games.
        
         | Victerius wrote:
         | Games were already cracked before companies like Valve started
         | pulling them from players' libraries. If games are cracked
         | anyway, why would studios and publishers care one way or
         | another?
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | I think in many cases, movies and video games piracy is a
           | matter of convenience. If pirated media is more convenient --
           | not just as in "free", but because it's less encumbered and
           | doesn't pull this crap on you -- then paying for legal media
           | will become less appealing.
           | 
           | There's a baseline of piracy, sure, but there's also making
           | the lives of paying customers more difficult so that piracy
           | becomes the preferred option.
        
         | givemeethekeys wrote:
         | Whats the matter? Don't you like interpreting PR-speak? \s
        
       | everdrive wrote:
       | Don't buy Ubisoft games, clearly. Games which require servers to
       | work at all (vs. just the mulitplayer components working) are
       | also a big no. This is likely a good thing: it will educate
       | gamers about unnecessary DRM.
        
       | lousken wrote:
       | That's why games like these should have dedicated servers as an
       | option. Why is this acceptable in the cloud era where everyone
       | can spin up their own server for a few bucks?
        
         | cmckn wrote:
         | I think it's a nice idea, but it just won't happen.
         | 
         | The game companies won't offer managed game servers, because
         | it's a totally new, small-market line of business outside their
         | core competency. They won't open-source the server and let
         | users run it themselves, because myriad licensing/IP/legalese
         | reasons. Even if they did open source it, the stack likely
         | isn't designed to scale down to a few bucks a month on the
         | public cloud -- most users interested in running their own
         | server wouldn't be happy with the actual cost of doing so. The
         | handful of folks willing to pay for it won't move the needle.
        
           | josephcsible wrote:
           | You make it sound like this is a hard problem that studios
           | don't know how to solve, but it's been solved for decades.
           | There's still a bunch of third-party Quake III Arena servers
           | you can play on, for example.
        
       | toyg wrote:
       | There should be a law: if you sell an entertainment experience
       | with significant online elements, and you shut down such
       | elements, you should be forced to opensource the server. Just
       | like that, dump the code wholesale on the internet somewhere.
        
         | Victerius wrote:
         | Source code is often reused in other products. Corporate
         | studios would balk.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | And? They'd figure it out. Millions of businesses have to
           | deal with changes in law every day.
           | 
           | In fact, there is a good chance this would result in
           | standardising the most basic aspects of online activity
           | (license checks etc) into free opensource libraries, saving
           | such corporations a decent amount of money in the long run.
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | We'd need a way to handle all of the companies who'd say "oops
         | we lost the source".
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | Escrow.
        
         | the_biot wrote:
         | No, there should not be a law that forces anyone to give away
         | their property. That's just complete nonsense.
         | 
         | You should draw your own conclusion as to what you spend your
         | money on, and possibly you might conclude that "buying" online
         | games that can be taken away from you at any time is a waste of
         | money. But you can't go from there to "we must take away
         | intellectual property from these capitalist swine!".
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | Is patent expiration "taking away IP from capitalist
           | swines"...? Obviously not. IP itself is not a natural right -
           | it's a legal construct with clear limits.
           | 
           | The nonsense is thinking that requiring certain interests to
           | follow rules that benefit society, is "taking away
           | intellectual property". Any such law would obviously not be
           | retroactive, so any publisher could decide whether they want
           | to produce any such online element going forward. If they do,
           | they will know their work will have to be disclosed on a free
           | license at the end - effectively working in the same way as
           | patents.
        
             | the_biot wrote:
             | I think the solution to this terrible behavior by Ubisoft,
             | EA etc is what I said -- people need to stop putting up
             | with it by not buying these games in the first place. You
             | can't throw a law at every shenanigan these companies throw
             | at their customers.
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | Oh yes, you absolutely can. Commercial law is so vast
               | precisely because people have always misbehaved in
               | pursuit of profit.
               | 
               |  _> people need to stop putting up with it_
               | 
               | What I'm going to say might sound paternalistic to you,
               | but it's the truth: most people don't really think that
               | hard, generally speaking, and certainly not when it comes
               | to satisfying their entertainment needs. That's why we
               | have laws to protect the general public from predatory
               | behavior in finance, hospitality, etc etc.
               | 
               | This is predatory behavior, and it's now enacted at a
               | scale that makes it parasitical - fleecing more and more
               | money from the general consumer. A public response would
               | be absolutely justified, in the same way it's absolutely
               | justified what we're currently seeing going down with
               | Apple's and Google's appstores.
               | 
               | Otherwise we will continue to sleepwalk in the cyberpunk
               | dystopia where corporations own our lives in practice,
               | while being 'free to choose' purely in theory.
        
           | josephcsible wrote:
           | Right now, the law forces you, the consumer, to give away
           | your property, the copy of Assassin's Creed Liberation that
           | you bought. (Don't believe me? Go ask a lawyer if it's legal
           | to crack your copy's DRM to keep it working after they do
           | this.)
        
       | dbetteridge wrote:
       | https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-con...
       | 
       | Sounds illegal if anyone is based in Australia and feels like
       | giving the ACCC a nudge.
       | 
       | "This case sets an important precedent that overseas-based
       | companies that sell to Australians must abide by our law. All
       | goods come with automatic consumer guarantees that they are of
       | acceptable quality and fit for the purpose for which they were
       | sold, even if the business is based overseas,"
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | Hm, sounds as ironic as when Amazon was taking away ebook copies
       | of _1984._
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | RMS had predicted all this, as usual.
        
       | sylware wrote:
       | We know ubisoft has been a sidekick of microsoft (in my country
       | they are the same ppl). But removing that big game from PC, very
       | weird: maybe they don't want to maintain technically the game
       | anymore, or go to epic.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | zac23or wrote:
       | That's theft. The theft pure and simple, ancient, which has been
       | around forever. Nothing new.
        
         | shbooms wrote:
         | Unfortunately, per Steam's TOS, you do not own anything you
         | "purchase" on their platform. Instead you "subscribe" to access
         | of whatever games/other content you've paid for:
         | 
         |  _...the rights to access and /or use any Content and Services
         | accessible through Steam are referred to in this Agreement as
         | "Subscriptions."
         | 
         | ... The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your
         | license confers no title or ownership in the Content and
         | Services._
         | 
         | https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement
         | 
         | To me, that's their business if they want to operate that way
         | and folks can choose to accept that and be a customer if they
         | so desire. I think what's really wrong is that nowhere on their
         | store pages do they use the word "Subscription" and instead
         | they use the word "Purchase". This should not be allowed and is
         | false advertising, plain and simple.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | Given how decent a company Valve is, and the rules they put on
       | things for sale in their store, I'm honestly surprised that Valve
       | even has store terms that allow this kind of shenanigans.
       | 
       | If I was them I would lock that down, because this is a bad look.
        
       | chrysoprace wrote:
       | Wouldn't be surprised if the ACCC (Australian Competition &
       | Consumer Commission) went after them. This is almost certainly
       | breaking the ACL, and all customers would be eligible for a
       | refund.
        
       | smileybarry wrote:
       | > Do note that this doesn't appear to be affecting the Remastered
       | rerelease, though keep in mind that would require an additional
       | purchase as the original release does not grant you access to it.
       | 
       | Ah, great. So poor little Ubisoft doesn't want to pay for the
       | activation servers of Liberation HD _and_ Liberation HD++. How
       | nice of them to drop just the older, original version and not
       | even offer the working remastered version to existing owners.
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | > not even offer the working remastered version to existing
         | owners
         | 
         | I can't believe they're not doing this. The remastered version
         | is frequently on sale for just $20, and revoking access is
         | clearly a PR nightmare.
         | 
         | If Ubisoft so dearly needs to shut down these servers, why not
         | just gift existing owners the upgrade?
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | Probably because the cost of the PR nightmare is either not
           | easily quantifiable, or simply an acceptable loss; wheras the
           | potential "forced profits" by people having to buy the
           | remaster are fairly easy to predict.
        
       | olodus wrote:
       | When something like this happens they should be required to hand
       | over the server software. Even better would be to have to open
       | source the code but atleast give out the server. Then the company
       | would have a choice; either you pay for the server but can keep
       | the game harder locked down for Intellectual property reason or
       | whatever. Or you can cut the server cost but risk loosing a bit
       | of your control over it.
        
       | yomkippur wrote:
       | so there's no way to get a refund???!!
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Maybe with more punctuation there will.
        
       | jrh206 wrote:
       | Why?
        
         | hatsuseno wrote:
         | Publisher is financially incentivized to kill the servers,
         | maintenance, and bugfix time for this title since single
         | purchase licenses and long term online infrastructure
         | requirements are financially incompatible.
        
           | tomc1985 wrote:
           | There is a whole single-player game in there that doesn't
           | need online connectivity.
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | Yeah. It's bizzare and insanely cheap of Ubisoft to not at
             | least patch the game to work single player offline for
             | people that already bought the game.
             | 
             | I'm pretty sure my older Vita cartridge of Liberation will
             | keep on trucking too...
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Ah, but if you're playing offline, obviously you're a
             | filthy pirate.
        
       | pseudalopex wrote:
       | Ubisoft will disable online services and paid DLC for other games
       | too.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.techspot.com/news/95177-ubisoft-disable-
       | online-f...
        
         | glotchimo wrote:
         | > To play the solo campaign, you will have to set your console
         | into offline mode.
         | 
         | I'd like to think this would be an easy patch to at least let
         | people down easy, but I don't know much if anything at all in
         | this context.
         | 
         | Why couldn't they just release an "flick a switch off" update?
         | And why would this be required in the first place?
        
         | yomkippur wrote:
         | think their office in Quebec is losing talent too after they
         | enacted that bill mandating French language. English speaking
         | engineers are leaving Montreal.
        
       | mikl wrote:
       | Is this even legal everywhere? Can they just pull the game people
       | had paid for, without providing a refund in countries with
       | consumer protection laws?
        
         | oblak wrote:
         | EA has been routinely shutting down game servers for almost 20
         | years now. Legal or not, I cannot say.
         | 
         | In any cause, the usual targets seem to be games with annual
         | releases. Apparently, people love buying the same games over
         | and over. While it sucks, this is clearly not on the same level
         | as Blizzard shutting down StarCraft battle-net servers. Lots of
         | people would be rightfully furious.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Game servers require a cost to operate (in money and people)
           | and I don't expect them to stay up forever.
           | 
           | What's the excuse for forcibly shutting down the single
           | player experience though?
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | Shutting down servers is 1 thing. Breaking the single player
           | game is another.
        
             | oblak wrote:
             | Your biases may be showing here. I think shutting down
             | servers is just as bad as removing single player games from
             | people's libraries. The end result is quite the same for
             | the customers: they can no longer use the products they
             | paid for.
             | 
             | In my case, the last Ubi game I purches, and played, was
             | released back in 2003. Hopefully that clears my stance on
             | this particular company
        
         | shbooms wrote:
         | Steam's TOS pretty clearly states that everything you
         | "purchase" is basically just a licensed subscription to that
         | content.
         | 
         | [0] _...the rights to access and /or use any Content and
         | Services accessible through Steam are referred to in this
         | Agreement as "Subscriptions."
         | 
         | ... The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your
         | license confers no title or ownership in the Content and
         | Services._
         | 
         | [0] https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement
        
       | alexklarjr wrote:
       | pffft, just download it from torrent, as you do for any
       | abandonware and Nintendo games, it had been cracked for 10 years,
       | what you are expecting, windows backward compatibility or
       | respecting your rights by Steam, created by former Micro$oft
       | employee?
        
       | bnj wrote:
       | If platform licensing arrangements don't protect customers from
       | losing access to purchases, they should be forced to advertise
       | them as rentals or leases and not something the consumer is
       | buying.
        
         | Shadonototra wrote:
         | France tried
         | https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-09-19-french-cou...
         | 
         | Then steam said you don't own the games they are selling to you
         | 
         | So you buy games that you don't really own with a 30% tax on
         | the developer's paycheck on top of his local taxes, thanks
         | Valve!
        
           | convolvatron wrote:
           | its really puzzling how a technology so perfect for lowering
           | cost of entry and promoting disintermediation has done the
           | exact opposite.
        
             | tuxie_ wrote:
             | The tech did its part, the costs are lower, just that the
             | margins of profit are much bigger now.
        
       | choward wrote:
       | They keep using this word "own" throughout the article. I do not
       | think it means what they think it means.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | You will own nothing and you will be happy. All your digital
       | games gone like I said before. [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31970488
        
       | sergiotapia wrote:
       | This is why I purchase all of my games physical.
       | 
       | Edit: To clarify I have stopped buying any big titles on PC. I
       | may splurge $2-5 on a key site but that's about it. I own console
       | games because I want to leave my grandkids something.
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | I do not understand focus on digital delivery platform. Seems a
         | red herring.
         | 
         | If you bought this very same game on DVD, would it not still
         | require same activation servers? It's my understanding this is
         | ubisoft the publisher activation thing, not steam the delivery
         | platform thing.
        
         | throw7 wrote:
         | My "moment" came after purchasing Batman Arkham Asylum and
         | being hit with a request to create a Games for Windows Live
         | Account. You could skip the GfWL account creation and I did.
         | Soon thereafter was an update. I updated and found all of my
         | save games were lost. Ohh, you didn't create a GfWL account,
         | too bad you didn't create a GfWL... that's the supported
         | configuration.
         | 
         | I stopped following and playing most AAA games at this point,
         | but I was already getting older anyway. I still play video
         | games, but I'm much more careful about the above such things.
        
           | smileybarry wrote:
           | GfWL tying your saves to a profile was extremely mean
           | spirited. They justified it by "you need a profile to save
           | games" as if you're on a Xbox 360 designed with that
           | requirement. Which amounted to a folder with your account ID
           | + saves encrypted with your account key.
           | 
           | Offline profiles were added at some point to alleviate this
           | but, they could've just started with null profiles and saved
           | all that, clearly GfWL adoption was more important.
        
         | tenryuu wrote:
         | Assassins creed games as far back as AC2 on PC had uplay
         | bundled on their game discs. Physical copies don't get around
         | DRM, only distribution
        
         | cardanome wrote:
         | Physical games can still have DRM.
         | 
         | The best way is to buy at https://www.gog.com/
         | 
         | They offer lot's of DRM-free games, even newer titles so you
         | can actually own the games and back them up wherever and
         | however you want.
        
         | smileybarry wrote:
         | On PC you're actually at a disadvantage if you do. At best it's
         | just the same as digital (boxed Steam key), at worst it's some
         | alternative DRM that stops working _much_ before Steam
         | /Origin/uPlay does, e.g. SecuROM, Games For Windows LIVE, etc.
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | That doesn't help though. Consider the Orange Box (HL2, TF2,
         | and Portal). You could buy this on DVDs from a brick-and-mortar
         | store, but playing it required you to set up a Steam account
         | and activate it there.
        
           | nibbleshifter wrote:
           | I distinctly recall buying HL2 from a store named "Game"
           | shortly after release, only to find it required some shit
           | called Steam, and the Steam key had already been redeemed.
           | 
           | Eventually got a working key after returning to the store and
           | complaining vigorously, and then had to wait approximately a
           | million hours for the game to update itself over our shit
           | tier dialup connection and eventually become playable.
        
         | brians wrote:
         | That's a good start! But it doesn't always help; I have plenty
         | of physical copies of games that won't work without Ubisoft
         | servers.
        
         | scoot wrote:
         | If only it were that simple. A physical DVD simply reduces the
         | download time. It typically still copies onto the console HD
         | (the DVD being used as an annoying proof of ownership.), and
         | still depends on online services.
        
           | trentnix wrote:
           | Does it? I had an 80+ GB practically-day-one-download waiting
           | when I bought Forza Horizon 5 for my XBox. The disc might as
           | well have been a blank.
        
             | scoot wrote:
             | Which is why I said typically. It's still an annoying
             | dongle though.
        
             | klyrs wrote:
             | DVDs can hold up to 8.5GB of DRM client software.
        
       | the_af wrote:
       | > _" This is yet another reason why owning digital games is
       | frowned upon by some consumer groups, as you technically never
       | own the game themselves given this thing can happen."_
       | 
       | I think things like GOG or Humble Bundle are better, because they
       | don't "phone home" when you try to play games you bought there
       | (unless, of course, they are actually Steam keys).
       | 
       | They could get delisted, but if you backed up the game you can
       | still play it.
       | 
       | That said: what a crappy situation. Are they at least giving the
       | money back to customers?
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | looks like there are some people at ubisoft willing to do
       | everything to lower the stock price
       | 
       | looks like they'll get purchased soon, microsoft behind the scene
       | perhaps?
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-10 23:00 UTC)