[HN Gopher] The Backstory of Picasso's "Guernica"
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The Backstory of Picasso's "Guernica"
Author : prismatic
Score : 40 points
Date : 2022-07-14 14:10 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| markdown wrote:
| An entire article about a mural with not a single photo of it?
| Are we supposed to imagine what it looks like?
| whiskeytuesday wrote:
| My favourite possibly apocryphal Picasso moment[0] has to do with
| just that painting. I saw it myself at the Reina Sophia some
| years ago and found it quite stunning.
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/EFZuYi2oXsM?t=1233
| kodah wrote:
| > When it comes to art against tyranny, no work is more seared
| into our consciousness than Guernica, Pablo Picasso's dark,
| howling mural against fascist terror.
|
| This is an interesting phrasing when juxtaposed with the title,
| and one that I think deserves attention, especially on HN. Being
| "anti-war" is about the worst rhetorical position one can take -
| nor does it actually reflect the truths of what a sensible person
| believes about "war".
|
| There are bad people in the world, some of those become powerful
| people and inflict their badness widely. Sometimes you can reason
| and guide these people but not usually. That's where diplomacy
| comes in, diplomacy can deter activity away from the source of
| conflict. Sometimes diplomacy is ignored repeatedly, or worked
| around. Tensions escalate, stalemates are reached, and the
| diplomacy tool bag is left empty. War is the last tool available
| to modern government in order to preserve it's way of life.
| Categorically, war is a tool to be respected - much like a
| powerful drug. Its why warrior cultures and ethos grew out of the
| activity and remain in-tact today around the world.
|
| Picasso's piece, to me, was not anti-war - anti-war would mean,
| in this context, let the person willing to inflict the most
| violence against me have their way. It's anti-tyrrany, which is
| what was happening at the time. Words mean things, and I think
| people that explain things the way this piece starts out do so
| intentionally, and that is regrettable.
| kritiko wrote:
| Since you brought rhetoric into it: -you are straw manning
| pacifism -you are claiming no sensible person could be anti-war
| using that straw man -you are implying that war is generally
| fought for self-preservation against bad leaders
|
| I don't really agree with any of those propositions.
|
| I'm also curious what you think the author's intention was in
| calling Guernica anti-war.
| kodah wrote:
| I didn't use the term pacifism once, I said anyone who uses
| the word "anti-war". Regardless, feel free to explain how I'm
| wrong within the context of what I actually said rather than
| lazily saying I produced a strawman and walking away.
|
| Lastly, I think you have successfully proved why this
| deserves discussion, especially on HN.
| tremon wrote:
| _Categorically, war is a tool to be respected - much like a
| powerful drug_
|
| Categorically, war is a tool to be despised. It sacrifices lots
| of people to the follies of a few powerful fools who couldn't
| be bothered to find better solutions to achieve their goals.
| That war is sometimes necessary in no way means that it should
| be respected.
| hedora wrote:
| I've long thought that the old tradition of having leaders in
| the front of military charges needs to be brought back. Someone
| would have put a hole in the heads of Putin and friends a long,
| long time ago.
|
| I think this is a much more practical approach to being anti-
| war than pacifism.
| mc32 wrote:
| I'm not going to question your premise, I just want to point
| out that while a small minority they are, many pacifists would
| submit knowing their fate. Fortunately most people are not
| pacifists against tyranny.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| didn't Albert Einstein say something about simultaneously
| preparing for, and preventing War, is not possible? It hints
| of an inner psyche truth and also a social-purpose
| mobilization truth. War professionals win against war
| amateurs, no doubt about it. But War professionals do not
| like to hear that they are in fact, making the bed for War
| and therefore it will come; or that the State will sometimes
| enact War despite their people, not for them. Someone else
| said "great literature is about love and war, common
| paperbacks are about sex and violence" .. there are layers to
| this and those layers do not necessarily resonate. Truth as
| we live it contains contradictions. Large contradictions
| exist in predatory actions versus defense versus justice, and
| using violence to win political power that brings stability.
| The arts are personal and the images in Guernica are personal
| psyche images, to my eye.
| w-j-w wrote:
| elliekelly wrote:
| It looks like "How" was accidentally dropped from the title so
| as-written it doesn't quite make sense because today _Guernica_
| is hardly considered a "flop". His related sketches _The Dream
| and Lie of Franco_ [1][2] are also worth a look.
|
| Fun fact: Franco wanted _Guernica_ exhibited in Spain but Picasso
| refused. It lived at the MoMA with instructions that it shouldn
| 't be sent to Spain until Spain was a democracy and the people
| were free.
|
| Not so fun fact: Picasso was an arogant asshole of the highest
| order.
|
| [1]https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/370475
|
| [2]https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/336519
| corrral wrote:
| > It looks like "How" was accidentally dropped from the title
| so as-written it doesn't quite make sense because today
| Guernica is hardly considered a "flop".
|
| I don't follow how adding "how" modifies the meaning in this
| way--making it clear it's about a historical and not ongoing
| situation.
|
| Also, I think "how" is dropped automatically by HN because it's
| usually ugly and meaning-free clickbaitese.
| dang wrote:
| I'd say the software got that one right, but the title without
| "how" is still pretty baity. We've changed it to the HTML doc
| title now, minus "unexpected".
| brudgers wrote:
| Pablo Picasso never got called an asshole.
|
| https://youtu.be/AXtBsikiY50
| dtgriscom wrote:
| I prefer Burning Sensations' version from Repo Man:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl8sWnUZVL4
| dang wrote:
| I approve of you linking to the John Cale version.
|
| the original (produced by Cale):
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujwAUbRa4cs#t=674
|
| bowie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSccHqk9s64
|
| talking heads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_CCbENmNaI
| dalanmiller wrote:
| I found this painting to be shockingly moving.
|
| It's something you must see in person. Reading the history behind
| it and standing before this massive tableau is something I'll
| never forget.
| evanlivingston wrote:
| One of my favorite moments for this painting is the time it was
| hanging in the UN, but was covered while Colin Powell argued for
| war in Iraq[1]
|
| [1]https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/02/guer-f08.html
| dahdum wrote:
| Here's the mural in gigapixel.
| https://guernica.museoreinasofia.es/gigapixel/en/#4/63.94/-1...
| kjellsbells wrote:
| Anyone interested in this painting could do a lot worse that
| watch this video presented by old school art historian Francis
| Frascina. Really enlightening. Frascina used to teach art history
| on TV for the Open University (TV distance learning) in the 1980s
| and of all his courses, this is all I can find online despite
| years of looking.
|
| https://youtu.be/vuPNBeWmuSk
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