[HN Gopher] It's time to make that indie C# game in Godot ___________________________________________________________________ It's time to make that indie C# game in Godot Author : proxybop Score : 306 points Date : 2022-07-14 14:35 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (jolexxa.medium.com) (TXT) w3m dump (jolexxa.medium.com) | luxuryballs wrote: | I'm in the midst of making a 2d game in monogame and was toying | with switching to Unity, thanks for sharing this. Man I wish I | could find some resources on how to do 2d shaders in monogame | though, like making sprites wave in the wind/water without | needing a ton of sprite frames, hard to find this kind of thing. | rfrerebe wrote: | There is a book that actually tells you not wait for Godot : | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot | debacle wrote: | Unity is suffering because it can't find a way to make DOTS/ECS | first class without completely redoing basically everything. | | That's my biggest complaint with Unity at this point. So much is | built around the GameObject implementation that when you start | using ECS you can feel the friction - you're writing a lot more | code, you're doing things in a way that feel like swimming | upstream, and there's less support + documentation. | | How does Godot compare? Are highly threaded features out of the | box? I would use Unreal but the C# Unreal interfaces I've seen | are very immature. | Mikeb85 wrote: | > How does Godot compare? Are highly threaded features out of | the box? | | Ish. But Godot very much embraces OO. Everything is a node | extending another node with messages passed between. But IMO | it's OO done right. | debacle wrote: | OO doesn't matter if you want to simulate 100k objects at | once without slowdowns. | berkut wrote: | ECS on its own doesn't always help - it's not a magic | bullet for every situation: sometimes you need to use | spatially-aware data structures / acceleration structures | for those type of "queries", and vanilla ECS (i.e. similar | to a DB in terms of queries) doesn't always help you in | these type of situations. | Mikeb85 wrote: | And how many games actually do that? | | Also, if you really want, with Godot you can bypass the | scene node system and also just use C++. | overgard wrote: | This might be of use: https://godotengine.org/article/why-isnt- | godot-ecs-based-gam... | idle_zealot wrote: | Godot also seems to be built in a way that creates friction for | ECS style game logic. It's built around scenes that are trees | of nodes that each have associated behavior and | signaling/message passing between nodes. | UnpossibleJim wrote: | There is an ECS port for Godot named Godex, but it isn't | hugely mature: | | https://github.com/GodotECS/godex | | I haven't used it, though I've been curious about it. As far | as better options for ECS game engines go, I'd go with Bevy | (personally), but you'll have to learn Rust (which I'm a | proponent of anyway). | | https://bevyengine.org/learn/book/introduction/ | | But both of these are still in "Beta", if that's even the | proper term for their development cycle, at this point. They | work, technically, but they could use some help, to my | understanding. | TillE wrote: | If you're doing high-end 3D stuff, Godot 3.x will probably | disappoint you anyway. | | If you're doing graphically simple games with a complex | simulation under the hood (everyone loves RimWorld as an | example), then you don't really benefit from an ECS that's | tightly integrated with the engine. You just do all that stuff | however you want, and use the engine as an I/O layer. | debacle wrote: | If I want a system that supports plugins, etc, and there's no | uniform way of doing that, then I'm doing things from | scratch, though. | brundolf wrote: | > If you're doing high-end 3D stuff, Godot 3.x will probably | disappoint you anyway | | Maybe 3.x, but I've seen/read some exciting stuff about 4.0's | graphics engine | throwawaycuriou wrote: | Would be popcorn to see Epic make a saucy donation to the Godot | project at this time. | arminiusreturns wrote: | I'm so happy that I saw this coming and have been head first in | master branch in order to be ahead of the curve. I have lots of | things to learn still in 4 but I see clean piplines using latest | formats like dynamic gltf in scene reload, meaning direct | blender(et al)-godot pipelines. Global illum is so off the charts | pretty. Perf is a pain point but when you start using | multimeshinstances things make more sense. Updates sometimes | corrupt scenes, keep your source of truth models in gltf 2. | Shader language wizards are the future. Vulkan is the coolest | thing since sliced bread. | | Context: My game project has been going since 2013, on godot | since 2018. | KronisLV wrote: | > Godot doesn't fight you when you're building scenes. Making a | scene feels a lot like creating a class using composition, and | scenes can even inherit from other scenes (using another scene as | the the root node of a scene allows you to inherit from it and | override its properties in the editor and in code), allowing you | to express patterns you're intimately familiar with from object- | oriented programming. | | I personally find the approach of nodes everywhere a bit odd. | | In my mind, you'd typically use nodes for objects that are | supposed to represent some sort of an object or concept within | the scene, whereas the scripts would be the ones that actually | give said object any number of behaviors, such as a certain group | of functionality per script. | | So you might have something like the following: | EnemyObject PathfindingBehavior ShootingBehavior | TalkingBehavior | | Unity kind of vaguely got that "right" (e.g. in a way that's | subjectively intuitive to me) with its component system. | | Whereas in Godot you can only have one script per node, which | would mean that in practice I'd have something like: | EnemyObject PathfindingObject | PathfindingBehavior (attached script) ShootingObject | ShootingBehavior (attached script) TalkingObject | TalkingBehavior (attached script) | | It kind of feels like it would be nicer to be able to attach a | number of scripts to the object that I actually want to control, | instead of having Nodes that I don't really see much of a use | for, apart from them being script containers. | | Of course, maybe that's just because I'm used to the GameObject | pattern that Unity uses, an entity-component system (of sorts), | though that implementation has gotten a bunch of critique as | well, with DOTS apparently being a better ECS approach, though | also unfinished in certain aspects. | | Just felt like sharing my thoughts on that particular aspect, | which some might find curious and which might take a bit of | getting used to (though personally not having a separate "prefab" | concept and instead having more or less everything be a node is | also pretty freeing, I have to say). | | With a bit of love, using C# could also be pretty amazing, since | GDScript does have certain limitations (performance comes to | mind, for when you need it to be decent for number crunching but | don't want to/can't use C++ due to knowledge or other | restrictions, C# has your back there) and curious design choices | (the integration with the engine is super nice and the Python | like syntax is great, but having to define singletons in the | editor IIRC is a bit silly | https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/tutorials/scripting/s...). | hitpointdrew wrote: | Why not just use the native GD Script? IMO is far easier and | cleaner to read than C#. | joemi wrote: | I think the article mentions it because Unity primarily is with | C#. | mindwok wrote: | Two reasons I can think of: | | 1. C# in Godot is faster than GDScript. | | 2. The type safety features of C# are a bit more mature (and | non-optional) for C# | jayd16 wrote: | Hopefully the async/await story gets fleshed out. Unity just made | the default scheduler run on the main thread. That's pretty much | all it takes but it would be nice if it was built in. | 202206241203 wrote: | Also check MonoGame - used by Stardew Valley etc.: | https://www.monogame.net | | It's a framework not an engine though - more programming from | scratch rather than scripting pre-existing things in a visual | editor. | everyone wrote: | How easy is building to mobile in Godot? | | I have been a Unity dev for years and my main reason for using it | is that I can build to most platforms with relative ease from the | one engine. | pipeline_peak wrote: | > It's no secret that Unity is painful to use: it's slow to open, | and it often pauses to re-scan the entire project while you're | trying to work | | Is this actually true? I always figured Unity's selling point was | being lighter and easier to use than unreal. | | Godot looks like Unity from 2008, it's easy to boast efficiency | when you have a limited product. | disintegore wrote: | This seems to be a cyclical thing. Every now and then a new | solution shows up that is built on new development and UX | practices, abandons some baggage that is no longer relevant to | most users, makes assumptions in its design that are better | suited to the era, etc etc. | | Then ten or twenty years pass and it becomes the thing to | replace. | psyc wrote: | I switched to Unreal after using Unity for many years, both at | my day jobs and as an indie. If I had known what it is actually | like to work in Unreal, rather than how the grapevine vaguely | typecasts it, I would have switched a long time ago, or more | likely never used Unity in the first place. Unreal is a | delight. | | It's unfortunate that Epic ever let Unity persuade people that | it's better suited to anything or anyone at all. | overgard wrote: | It's very true; I remember one game I was working on, when you | pulled down the code and new assets it'd take a long time to | rebuild the "Library" (which is not something you can check | in). And sometimes, if your version of the project was acting | wonky and everyone else was fine, the solution was to delete | the Library and rebuild it from scratch. If you were doing it | from scratch, it could take hours. They've made some | improvements but it's still a mess. | | The editor itself always seems very buggy. If you have the | "Console" open (which you will if you're coding), it's pretty | much guaranteed you're going to see a lot of random errors that | have nothing to do with even your code. A lot of them don't | even make sense or could be ignored. Like you'll get weird | asset import errors if you upgrade versions, but a lot of times | they're just red herrings and not important. There's also a lot | of QOL stuff that's very frustrating, like arrays being | annoying to edit (I'm not sure if they've fixed this yet or | not). It's also easy to accidentally brick your editor on your | own, with debugger shenanigans or loops that don't end. | | Also, if you're trying to build a an editor extension, omg was | that a nightmare. Just getting things like Undo/Redo and object | serialization working correctly are difficult and in some cases | impossible. And frankly, you need extensions for a lot of | things to actually be useful, like until recently the builtin | terrain editor was basically useless, and you have things like | Odin because the builtin inspector is a nightmare. | | There's a lot to like about Unity, but there's also a huge | amount of pain points with it. | okwubodu wrote: | Personally, I think they were a bit generous there. | | I'm not sure what it is but it's gotten significantly worse | over the past few years and I've stopped recommending it to new | game devs. | Uehreka wrote: | It is outrageously painful. Half of the craft of working in | Unity is knowing which kinds of operations will trigger a 15 | minute re-import and basically scheduling your day so that you | have other things you can do while that's happening. It doesn't | happen every day or every time you open a project, but | sometimes you'll be looking at your master branch in git, and | then you go to check out a branch where something big has | changed, and then you alt-tab back to Unity and... time to go | make a fresh pot of coffee. | KronisLV wrote: | > Is this actually true? | | I'd say that yes, at least in the last 5 or so years. | | I decided to make a scene which would contain a single copy of | every single model that I'd like to use in a project of mine, | for checking the textures, how lighting works, the scale of | everything etc. | | By the time I got to around 200 different objects (no high poly | ones, by the way), it took like a minute to just open that | scene. | sfteus wrote: | Anecdotally, there's something about Godot's structure that | just "clicks" better for me. It's odd because they seem pretty | similar on the surface (nested scene graph, nodes with scripts | that have hooks, etc), so it's hard to determine what exactly | makes it easier to understand. | | The only two concrete things I can point to are better | documentation (IMO), and the first-class signal/observer | support in Godot. I'm not sure if that exists in Unity or not, | but it's a really intuitive way to handle entity interaction, | and I think that makes it way more easy for beginners to get | started. | Entinel wrote: | Anyone who used Unity 2.x in 08 would tell you Godot is far | beyond where Unity was in 2008 in terms of features and | stability. | scottymac wrote: | Especially for 2D features. | BoorishBears wrote: | As someone who did I'd say it's a silly comparison. Godot has | a decade of advancements in technology on Unity 2.x, things | are generally "nicer" than when Unity started | johnfn wrote: | The quoted statement is 100% accurate. Unity is very slow. When | I worked on Unity with a larger project, I'd often have to wait | 10+ seconds for Unity to rescan the entire project every time I | switched windows from my IDE to Unity, or every time I ran the | project. In similar project sizes, Godot was always lightning | fast. | | > Godot looks like Unity from 2008, it's easy to boast | efficiency when you have a limited product. | | Unity does have more features - like more obscure 3D features - | but that has nothing to do with how Unity deems it necessary to | rescan the project tree all the time. Also, when I used Unity, | I never used these extra features, so even if this were true, | how come _all_ users have to pay the price for features that | only a few of us will use? | | Honestly, core Godot is very full-featured, and in my | experience the central abstractions are much better thought out | than those in Unity. I feel a lot of the FUD around "Unity has | more features than Godot" comes from people that like seeing a | long list of features, not from people who actually need those | features. | eatsyourtacos wrote: | Agreed- my limited Unity usage has been horrible just because | of how bloated and massive it seems every time I try to give | it a go. | | Whereas Godot opens up in literally 1 second and boom I am | there. | | And for 2D projects, there is very little "lacking" compared | to Unity. It's way more clear what is going on. | TillE wrote: | > the central abstractions are much better thought out | | Totally agree. Godot is the first engine I've ever used where | I don't feel like I'm fighting with it the whole time to make | it do what I want. | | Godot is pretty clearly a solid choice for anyone making 2D | games, and will eventually be a fantastic choice once we get | a stable Godot 4.0 with .NET 6 and other nice features. | aroman wrote: | As someone who uses Unity professionally to make a 2D game, | here are some key areas I find godot lacking vs unity: | | - Scalable text support a la TextMeshPro (sdf-based | rendering) | | - the in-editor console is horrible. it frequently tells me | "output overflow, print less text!". wtf? also, it doesn't | let me click on a line to jump to the code | | - the built-in tile editor is very painful in my experience. | the UI is clunky and it's lacking important features I depend | on in Unity, like tile rules. | | - the built-in text editor is _very_ basic, and support for | external editors is limited vs Unity (and hampered by lack of | mature tooling for gdscript vs C#) | | - gdscript's heavy reliance on "magic" strings and lack of | type-safety throughout | | - unity's UI system sucks, but it's still more capable than | Godot's especially for things | jolexxa wrote: | I believe I can address the first two points for you: | | > Scalable text support a la TextMeshPro (sdf-based | rendering) | | Someone in our Discord recently found a way to scale their | project UI correctly according to screen DPI, not sure if | that solves your problem or not. Their project is also open | source: https://github.com/derkork/openscad-graph-editor | | > - the in-editor console is horrible. it frequently tells | me "output overflow, print less text!". wtf? | | That can be solved by upping the debugger output limit in | your project. (https://github.com/chickensoft- | games/go_dot_test/blob/1fb342...) | aroman wrote: | Thanks for the reply! Can you share any more context on | the scalable UI solution? Feel free to tag me in the | thread on Discord, my handle is avi#9876. | | Also TY for the tip about debugger output limit -- no | idea why the default is so low! | johnfn wrote: | > Scalable text support a la TextMeshPro (sdf-based | rendering) | | Agreed, this could be better. | | > the in-editor console is horrible. it frequently tells me | "output overflow, print less text!". wtf? also, it doesn't | let me click on a line to jump to the code | | Agreed. | | > the built-in tile editor is very painful in my | experience. | | Agreed, but I hear it's better in 4.0 | | > the built-in text editor is _very_ basic | | Actually, I disagree here. Fuzzy find, quick open, search | in files, and autocomplete all work and are blazing fast. | It is missing some things like a decent Vim mode, I'll | admit. However, I tried both using vscode and the godot | text editor, and I found that you saved so much time by not | having to jump between IDE and Godot that it actually made | up for a few of the more minor deficiencies. | | > gdscript's heavy reliance on "magic" strings and lack of | type-safety throughout | | Agreed, but this improves in 4.0. | | > unity's UI system sucks, but it's still more capable than | Godot's especially for things | | I honestly find Godot's workable enough. With Unity I would | get into stupid issues because it was scaled 1000x larger | than my game (who in their right mind thought this was a | good idea?!?). Also, I remember Unity having 3 different | modes for their UI, all of which were confusing and counter | intuitive. Godot's UI is simple enough to hack. | aroman wrote: | Thanks for the detailed reply. I am super excited about | 4.0, I eagerly read the alpha update blog posts when they | appear in my RSS reader :D | | I am probably most excited about the gdscript 2.0 | features. As someone who currently maintains a fairly | large codebase as a solo developer, I cannot imagine | writing that in gdscript. I rely heavily on C#'s type | safety and more "industrial strength" tooling -- a strong | standard library, huge ecosystem of tested open source C# | modules (e.g. NuGet), great external IDE support (I use | Rider), and a lot of language features like generics and | interfaces. | | Btw on the UI stuff... I definitely remember being very | confused about that when I first got started. Now, I | actually do see the benefits of having 3 separate modes | -- it "does the hard work for you" when you want to put | UI in screen space vs world space. But yeah Unity's UI | system isn't good... and, like seemingly everything else | in Unity's, it's apparently deprecated yet it's | proclaimed replacement (UI Toolkit) isn't production- | ready. Sigh... | corrral wrote: | > - gdscript's heavy reliance on "magic" strings and lack | of type-safety throughout | | Yikes. I was like "eh, I could get over that for a good dev | framework" until I hit this one. Dealing with that kind of | thing is like driving a car with hexagonal wheels. | johnfn wrote: | It's actually not as bad as it sounds. There are | generally 2 cases where these come up. | | 1. As a hack for not having functions as first class | objects in GDScript - you'd refer to the function by | string name. This definitely felt very hacky, but it's | been resolved in 4.0, and now we have first-class | functions! | | 2. For some things that other languages would handle as | enums. This is also a problem, but it's not nearly as bad | as you'd think, because it's generally fairly readable - | stuff roughly like `is_key_down("key_left")` - and | because Godot's autocomplete is good enough to suggest | only the appropriate strings. | bluefirebrand wrote: | I love working with Godot but I can't help but feel like | GDScript is a mistake. | | I want better language support and community when working on | a project. I want to use nice VSCode plugins that auto format | my code (and give type hints... Untyped languages hurt me so | much these days) | | I can't wait for better C# integration for Godot. It's ok now | but I'd love it to be rock solid. | kevingadd wrote: | Custom scripting language seems to be a common error - | early on Unity emphasized a pseudo-custom scripting | language (Boo) over C# and had to slowly extract it out of | the product, documentation etc. | | It makes sense as a risk management strategy early on in | engine development, though, since integrating something | like C# can be difficult and they may have been afraid that | they would regret building around C# later on. | bluefirebrand wrote: | I do wonder if integrating C# is more effort than | building and maintaining a language though. | | But I do understand it. I just am not sure it's a good | strategy for longterm growth. | bluescrn wrote: | Pushing people towards a non-standard scripting language | is definitely not a strategy for long-term growth. | | It needs a widely-known language with good performance | and high quality debugging support (you can use the | Visual Studio debugger with Unity C# or UE C++, for | example) | danbolt wrote: | Normally I'd agree with you, especially as someone that's | embedded a scripting language into AAA games, but I think | GDScript is the exception to the rule. Or, it's very | tightly integrated with the engine's way of handling | memory and it feels refreshing compared to a VM that has | some bindings to native functions. | krapp wrote: | On the one hand, Undertale, Spelunky, Hotline Miami and | other popular games have been made in GameMaker and GML | is much, much worse than GDScript. At the end of the day, | the player isn't going to care. | | On the other hand, GDScript is not that great a language. | No one would use it as a general purpose scripting | language outside of Godot, it's like a more awkward | wannabe Python without many of Python's useful features, | and outright frustrating features like "pass" and funcref | and not actually being able to type-hint signals. | | To each their own, but I've never enjoyed using GDScript, | which is unfortunate because the framework itself is | amazing. | thrillgore wrote: | The only real FUD that has any basis is 1) The lack of good | 3D support and 2) DOTS style architecture. These are things | the community is addressing now for future releases. | | The 3D support will be significantly overhauled in 4.x | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNJXkcQxXEg and additional | enhancements will reduce the need for DOTS/ECS for many. | There's also Godex https://github.com/GodotECS/godex that | adds ECS to the engine. | jayd16 wrote: | Are you comparing apples to apples with similar sized | projects? I'd be curious to hear about larger Godot projects. | johnfn wrote: | Yep. Similar numbers of assets, similar sizes of assets, | etc. Things that would cause Unity to keel over and die | were virtually instantaneous in Godot. I had a project with | something like 10k game objects in Godot with no major | issues. | | Actually, there _was_ one issue where saving was taking | like 5 seconds in Godot instead of being instantaneous. I | reported it and it was solved in the next point version. | https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/49570 | jpeter wrote: | I recently tried out unity with this tutorial | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pm16a18zy8 and imported a | sprite map. It took like 10 minutes to load. No idea why it | takes so long | Dracophoenix wrote: | Would you still recommend Unity for 3D iOS game development, | or would it be better to move on to Godot? | johnfn wrote: | Hmm, it depends how much you're going to be using the 3D | features that Unity provides. If you're going down the big | list of Unity 3D features and you're thinking you need a | whole bunch of them, then it's possible that Unity would be | a time save in the long run. But honestly I like Godot so | much that it would take a lot to tip the scales. | | I would personally not use Unity at all because I find the | developer experience so frustrating. I'd rather spend an | extra couple of days enjoyably hacking something together | rather than spending less time in more frustrating ways | (like waiting for compiles). But I feel I'm more sensitive | to these things than most people. | Zhyl wrote: | With 4.0 getting more and more advanced features [0] and Unity | merging with an Ad company [1], Godot is looking like it could be | an attractive proposition for a lot of Unity shops. | | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32003065 | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32081051 | bluefirebrand wrote: | It's definitely Godot's opportunity to drive a lot of adoption, | I'm seeing a ton of disgust from a lot of indie devs I follow, | and looking for alternatives to Unity now. | Thaxll wrote: | Godot is an amateur project compared to Unity, it's not even | close. What game actually shipped on Godot? I can't cite a | single major game on it. | | https://godotengine.org/showcase | | Looking at any of thoses games looks bad tbh it's like weekend | project / low indie games. | AaronM wrote: | Sonic Colors: Ultimate, made by Sega. | | Here are some other games | | Carol Reed Mysteries[53] (since 2021) Commander Keen in Keen | Dreams (Nintendo Switch port only) Cruelty Squad Deponia (iOS | and PlayStation 4 ports) The Interactive Adventures of Dog | Mendonca & Pizzaboy Hardcoded Kingdoms of the Dump Sonic | Colors: Ultimate | carbadtraingood wrote: | Sonic Colors remaster, iirc? | | The games in that showcase look pretty decent to me? Plenty | of games I play look like that, lol. | idle_zealot wrote: | If I'm remembering correctly the new UI elements in the | remaster were done in Godot, but the actual game was not. | The new Godot menus are slow and unresponsive, so Colors | isn't a great showcase for Godot. | bogwog wrote: | > weekend project | | If Godot lets you make games like that in a weekend, then | it's lightyears ahead of Unity. | drusepth wrote: | FWIW, I'd bet I could replicate many of these games sans | release polish in a weekend in Unity solely because of | their expansive asset store. Building them from scratch | would take longer, but not that much longer. | | If Godot had even the beginning of an asset store, it'd be | way more appealing to devs like myself migrating away from | Unity. Especially with Unreal's recent megascans and Quixel | integrations making their asset store look _inspiring_ , I | can't imagine many Unity studios (who, IME, primarily focus | on rapid development and tooling over asset work) will be | drawn to Godot. | | Obviously context is important, though: the asset store | isn't the end-all reason people use Unity and rarely the | reason a studio chooses the engine, but it is still a big | factor for both groups. Other factors will apply, YMMV, | etc. | Thaxll wrote: | Lot of AAA studios use Unity to prototype games when they | have in-house engine. | eropple wrote: | Godot is really cool, but a clear and publicly delineated path | to console distribution (and not "go talk to these guys", as | they currently do) is going to be necessary to get material | interest out of most of the gamedev space. | remram wrote: | The consoles make this explicitly incompatible with open | source though. That could possibly be a separate entity I | suppose, or hopefully if Godot becomes big enough the | consoles could arrange something. | to-too-two wrote: | I'd love official console support but it's not possible being | open-source. Porting it yourself is an option, but not many | will be inclined to do that and would have to opt for paying | a third-party to do so. | TulliusCicero wrote: | Couldn't you just have a bridge library of some sort that's | not open source and contains only the console-specific | code? | to-too-two wrote: | From the official Godot docs: | | _The reason other consoles are not officially supported | are:_ | | - _To develop for consoles, one must be licensed as a | company. As an open source project, Godot does not have | such a legal figure._ | | - _Console SDKs are secret and covered by non-disclosure | agreements. Even if we could get access to them, we could | not publish the platform-specific code under an open | source license._ | | - _Consoles require specialized hardware to develop for, | so regular individuals can 't create games for them | anyway._ | | Source: https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/tutorials/ | platform/co... | wly_cdgr wrote: | Yes. This is the main and only major thing that is holding | Godot back from mass indie adoption. I would choose GMS2 or | Unity over Godot for a 2D commercial indie project even | though GML is worthless on a resume and Unity has all the | Unity problems, because they build to all the consoles. Or | Defold, since it is really nice and at least can target | Switch. And I would choose Unreal or Unity or maybe even | Cocos Creator (which recently added Switch support) for a 3D | project for the same reason. | | If you want mass adoption, you need to make it financially | viable for commercial indies to use your engine, and good | luck convincing those people if they know they need to hire a | 3rd party company to port to consoles. | | Since Godot can't really go the console route, though, they | basically need to do the work of figuring out how their users | can make enough money on just web, mobile, and/or desktop, | and then articulate and successfully sell that solution to | them. Steam Deck could help for sure, but it's a big ask | TulliusCicero wrote: | > Since Godot can't really go the console route | | Wait, why not? I thought it was a deliberate choice on the | devs' part not to prioritize native support for consoles, | not something that's actually impossible (since obviously | other third party engines do it). | skneko wrote: | As explained in [0]: | | - To develop for consoles, one must be licensed as a | company. As an open source project, Godot does not have | such a legal figure. | | - Console SDKs are secret and covered by non-disclosure | agreements. Even if we could get access to them, we could | not publish the platform-specific code under an open | source license. | | [0] https://github.com/godotengine/godot- | docs/blob/master/tutori... | spywaregorilla wrote: | Unity is already an ad company | TaupeRanger wrote: | How's networking in the recent Godot versions? Anything | innovative or extra helpful in that space? | BlargMcLarg wrote: | C# hasn't been an issue for me at all bar a few oddities. Some | things not working properly in C# (think some plugins or | something back a while ago). Some code not directly mapping from | GDScript to C#, causing huge object count issues. For reference, | I've been using it since 3.1 in a hobby context. | | Really, it's not the developers you have to worry about. It's | everyone else. Godot is made with developers in mind, but there's | much more to do than wiring signals and writing code. If you | can't map things one to one from a different program or close to | that through a plugin, you're either giving yourself more work, | or forcing not just developers, but artists to relearn processes | too. | | The small stuff will get fixed over time. | sfteus wrote: | > If you can't map things one to one from a different program | or close to that through a plugin | | I've only used Godot in a hobby context, but the full on C# | support compared to other engines is pretty amazing. Just as a | proof of concept I imported an open source C# library I've | worked on that's designed to play old DOS music formats, | created a small wrapper node with control functions, and I was | able to control it as expected from within GDScript nodes right | out of the box. Only issue I would have seen down the road | would be cross-platform compatibility since the library itself | was Windows only. | | Caveat: I can't say I've ever got far enough in Unity to say if | the C# support is of a similar scope. Godot just "clicks" | better for me, so I've gotten way farther with it than anything | I've done in Unity. | BlargMcLarg wrote: | Yeah, that works well. Most libraries do work depending on | target platform. With C#, you can write your entire logic | outside Godot and just use Godot as a graphical interface if | you so desire. | | But that's the point. We're discussing things from a | developer point of view. This happens almost every day by | now. That's not the issue. The issue is how everyone else | struggles with Godot compared to Unity, if at all. When even | basic particle patterns require diving into shader logic in | 3.4 or loads of trial and error, that's a pretty hard sell | for non-technical people. | aschearer wrote: | I'd love an alternative for 2D games to Unity but I haven't found | one that has the breadth of features as well as demonstrated high | quality games. It doesn't help that Godot fans constantly push | their engine-of-choice every chance they get. We get it, you're | excited... Show, don't tell. Build super high quality stuff and | prove it's time to stop waiting. | prophesi wrote: | Maybe it's because writing C# in Unity is really just using the | Unity SDK and not writing actual C# code, but I wouldn't want to | hop over to Godot just because it supports C#, as learning it was | born out of necessity and was never an enjoyable experience. I'd | be much more interested in their GodotScript or plugins for other | languages I'm familiar in. | Shadonototra wrote: | C#? sad | | People literally learnt nothing at all | | Want to stay away from unity? | | You should also stay away from C# and Microsoft | | https://exceptionnotfound.net/the-catch-block-80-the-dotnet-... | seneca wrote: | Boy, there sure are a lot of pro-Godot and anti-Unity posts on HN | today. Some marketing group is having a fieldday. | curioussavage wrote: | I was really tempted to try out the c# support but I opted first | for the rust godot bindings and then the nim bindings. Nim is | working fantastically. I was a bit worried because the bindings | are not really actively developed but from my experience so far I | think they just don't need much work. | viktorcode wrote: | > Using async and await with C#'s Task can be a bit of a headache | with Godot, especially if you don't realize that that most ways | of executing an async Task in C# starts a new thread (or recycles | one from the task thread pool). | | Unity makes it much easier though. | binarynate wrote: | People are overreacting to Unity's acquisition (technically a | merger) of ironSource and Riccitiello's comments on monetization. | Many developers want to make money from their games, so I think | it's positive and worthwhile for Unity to give them tools to do | that. As for Unity's market cap, the market as a whole has taken | a beating over the past few months. As someone who works with | Unity and sees the enormous value it provides, it just strikes me | as a great time to buy their stock while it's low. | wilg wrote: | I tend to agree, but I do really worry about Unity's technical | roadmap. There are so many half-baked systems that rarely get | updates, 3 confusing choices of render pipeline, and there's | not robust well-utilized implementations of common gameplay | elements like Unreal has. | [deleted] | caconym_ wrote: | Ironsource is a malware vendor. I'm not sure in what sense you | think people are overreacting, but I think that fact alone is | worthy of a raised eyebrow or two. Unity has _merged with a | malware vendor._ | marcodiego wrote: | Some excerpts: | | > At first glance, Unity is so laughably ahead of Godot in sheer | number of features supported that it seems comical to compare the | two. | | > In practice, Unity requires 3rd party tools for tweens, timers, | and networking, all of which Godot includes out-of-the-box. | Still, I'd argue that it doesn't actually matter for the vast | majority of us indie game developers. | languageserver wrote: | I miss XNA | WorldMaker wrote: | I do too some days. I keep meaning to do a deep dive into | MonoGame to see where it is today and where it may be going. | adamrezich wrote: | MonoGame is still a thing! and many games you've heard of were | made with it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonoGame#Games | e4m2 wrote: | Also FNA (https://fna-xna.github.io), which is aimed at 100% | compatibility with existing XNA 4.0 code. | jolexxa wrote: | I first started learning C# and XNA before college to make a | game for my Zune HD. That was my first exposure to OOP. Ah, | those were the days... | pleb_nz wrote: | What support like for macos? | jolexxa wrote: | I use it on macOS and Windows, and it is lovely! I even have | Steamworks.NET integrations working on both platforms with it. | It can be a bit tricky to setup the `.csproj` correctly to | resolve native dependencies, but not anything impossible. | pleb_nz wrote: | Thanks, can you suggest resources that would be useful in | seeing up on macos? | jolexxa wrote: | If you don't mind me tooting my own horn too much, I have | some docs about project setup in the readme for a test | framework I made for C# Godot games. It has some notes | about mac-specific things, since that's my primary machine. | https://github.com/chickensoft-games/go_dot_test | | You can also look at the way that project itself is setup, | and the `.csproj` files. If you need more help, feel free | to join our Discord (link in the blog)! | Mattish wrote: | The problem with Godot is still it's age, and the lack of proven | projects which many people are working on at once. | | Myself and plenty of others at small or above size studios would | have to make a huge leap into Godot and hope you don't run into | any scaling issues. Not just from a project point of view, but | integration on the artistic side. | | LTS versions of Unity despite the known "un-fun" of it, are | stable in a sense. Godot is moving fast, that isn't always a good | thing for stability. | | I'd love to jump on the new shiny and fun engine! But having to | make the definitive choice for a company to make their next | project in? Unfortunately just isn't there yet. "It's fun as a | dev" just isn't a compelling argument for literally everyone else | who isn't the engineer, compared to the number of all size studio | pumping out Unity projects(Some even being successful!). | singhrac wrote: | Do you think Blender overcame this challenge, or is it still a | sticking point in the VFX industry? I know they're at very | different levels of maturity but I'm curious if the open | projects ended up helping with ironing out these kinks. | nivenkos wrote: | Blender was already a well-developed product before it was | bought collectively (crowdsourced) and made a Free Software | project. | withinboredom wrote: | Remember when fun and popular games were made by very small | teams taking a chance? There was a particular whimsiness about | them that I miss. | TaupeRanger wrote: | Those teams still exist but now they get drowned out by the | enormous number of new games that poor into the space month | after month. | wilg wrote: | Ugh, not more C#! | | I hope one of these projects takes off: | https://github.com/migueldeicaza/GodotSwift | https://github.com/kelvin13/godot-swift | | Excited to try Godot in a couple of years when it's more mature. | Hopefully they can be the Blender of game engines - where it | started rough and now is better than Maya or other alternatives. | weberer wrote: | Godot's default language is GDscript, which is similar to | Python. I'd highly recommend that to new people switching to | Godot. I think C# is just cruft for people coming from Unity | and stuck in old habits/frameworks. | TulliusCicero wrote: | I tried GDScript and hated it, ended up manually porting what | I wrote to C#. GDScript currently only has partial support | for static typing, which makes things a much bigger pain in | the ass. Using C# was a breath of fresh air after that. | wilg wrote: | Yeah, I don't want a weird scripting language like Unreal | Blueprint or GDScript or Lua. C# beats all of those by a | mile. I want a robust, ergonomic, high-performance, | compiled language like Swift. | mdbauman wrote: | You obviously know this since you linked a Swift bindings | project, but for others reading who may not be aware: Godot | officially supports multiple languages ("GDScript, C#, | VisualScript, and C++ and C via its GDNative technology"[1]), | but other languages are supported by the community. | | In particular, a sibling comment mentions Kotlin. The docs[2] | link to a project that adds Kotlin bindings | https://github.com/utopia-rise/godot-kotlin-jvm | | [1]https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/getting_started/step_ | ... | | [2]https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/tutorials/scripting/g | ... | ianlevesque wrote: | C# is really well suited to the task thanks to value types and | structs, that gives you back control of memory that is lost in | Java for example. It also has a lot of syntax sugar to avoid | being too verbose and the memory safety and GC are desirable | most of the time and can be avoided with well known tricks, | like object pools, when performance needs are more paramount. | overgard wrote: | I don't know Swift very well, but I seem to recall the | creator talking about using automatic reference counting | instead of garbage collection as an intentional tradeoff. If | that's still the case, I'd much rather use Swift over C# in a | game (and I am using C# in a game!). The value types and | structs are _very_ limited compared to classes and reference | types. | wilg wrote: | Yes ARC is definitely an intentional and well-chosen | tradeoff. Swift has real first-class value types (strings, | collections, etc are all value types) and copy-on-write | semantics that make it all work quite well. C# value types | feel like they are funkily bolted on and aren't really very | useful in practice (at least in Unity). | wilg wrote: | Swift is entirely designed around value types and structs, | and has a much more predictable ARC model instead of GC for | game programming. Plus, an upcoming feature will add Rust- | style lifetimes for more control (https://github.com/apple/sw | ift/blob/main/docs/OwnershipManif...). | arcturus17 wrote: | I've actually read so many good things about C# lately here and | on Reddit that I plan to start learning it in the coming weeks | (other reasons include .Net and F# being an adjacent language) | | What don't you like about it? | throwaway675309 wrote: | Do you have an actual specific disagreement with c# or are you | just venting because you are not familiar with the language? | | C# is a robust language with a lot of features like lambdas | pattern matching etc. I also find that most of the people who | know Swift are Apple developers, so I feel like there isn't a | broad enough appeal especially for game devs who are going to | be more Windows or Linux centric. | wilg wrote: | Yes, I know C# reasonably well. I use it in Unity for game | development, where it is the only option. | | C# is better than many alternatives, but Swift is simply a | better language in every regard. | | C#'s GC is a constant issue for games, and it makes using | things like LINQ nearly impossible since it does so much | allocation. Swift is designed around automatic reference | counting instead. C#'s structs work weirdly and are hard to | use. | | Swift is so much more ergonomic. C# has added a few nice | things lately, but it's much more verbose than Swift. | | Swift is also more focused on performance, and is always AOT | compiled. | | Unity has had to come up with some insane things to get C# to | work across platforms - they have their own .NET IL to C++ | compiler (https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/IL2CPP.html) that | doesn't always work right. They also have a SECOND custom C# | compiler for high-performance programming (https://docs.unity | 3d.com/Packages/com.unity.burst@0.2/manual...). | | I'm also very excited about Swift 6's upcoming opt-in Rust- | like lower-level memory management which should help a ton | for performance-critical code. (https://github.com/apple/swif | t/blob/main/docs/OwnershipManif...) | elabajaba wrote: | Dotnet Core is significantly faster than the old version of | mono that Unity is currently stuck on. | | They've recently announced that they're finally upgrade to | .net core over the next couple years, so that should help | out a lot. https://blog.unity.com/technology/unity-and-net- | whats-next | jayd16 wrote: | Sounds like you mostly just don't like what Unity has | needed to do over the years with the Mono runtime, not the | language. | wilg wrote: | @jayd16 No, they have dropped the Mono runtime for many | cases (which causes some of the problems). The language | itself is simply much less pleasurable to program in than | Swift, and performs worse in key areas. | kitsunesoba wrote: | My experience with C# has mostly been working on a personal | project WinUI desktop app, and my biggest peeve has been | reaching for something I use regularly in other languages | only to find that it doesn't exist, and the solutions | offered up by googling are usually, "well you can write | your own implementation", "[huge utility library] offers | that", or "don't do that it's not | idiomatic/performant/etc". While none of those are | showstoppers they slow development down and act as a source | of frustration. | Shadonototra wrote: | C# needs a fat runtime, has a slow JIT (say hi to micro | stutters in your gameplay and increased input latency), has a | slow GC and worst of all is owned by Microsoft with a | proprietary debugger that you can only use on visual studio | (licence they changed overnight because Jetbrains released a | C# IDE) | | There are much better languages for game scripting (LUA for | example) | overgard wrote: | I can't speak for the grandparent, but using C# in Unity, the | garbage collector is always at the front of mind and | dissuades people from using some of the nicer features of C# | (LINQ, etc.). Granted my knowledge of this is a couple years | old, so maybe the situation has improved, but I'm guessing | most Unity developers are still very careful about how they | write loops and how/when objects are allocated and all that | stuff. Automatic memory management can be more of a hindrance | than a benefit if you have to babysit it to avoid GC pauses. | kitsunesoba wrote: | C# isn't the worst but out of the newer languages I've tried | it's probably the one I'm least excited to write. Swift or | Kotlin would definitely be preferred. | disintegore wrote: | > One is an industry behemoth and the world's most popular game | engine, while the other is a free, 30 megabyte program developed | by passionate developers in their free time. | | I was under the impression that Godot had at least two full-time | devs working on it. Between their patreon revenue and the grants | they've received they can definitely afford a small team on | payroll. It's still important to stress the comparison in scope | between Unity and Godot, but the latter is definitely more than a | hobby project at this point. | brundolf wrote: | At least one of them, the original creator, is full-time (I | follow him on Twitter). Not positive about others but it's | certainly possible | jolexxa wrote: | That's a good point, I can edit that for clarity in the article | (especially since I mentioned Godot's Patreon support later in | the article). I was assuming that the Patreon support didn't | amount to full time support for all the devs that contribute, | but I don't know if that's true or not. | | Either way, it seems a lot of people have contributed without | sponsorship, but the main devs are (hopefully) compensated. | prox wrote: | There are at leasts two full time devs and a handful of other | devs on paid projects (by way of Patreon and a few large | donations of companies like Epic) | T-A wrote: | I'd like to see a comparison of Godot and Stride (formerly | Xenko): | | https://www.stride3d.net/ | orthoxerox wrote: | And formerly Paradox, if I'm not mistaken. It's one of the | worst marketed game engines I have seen. Two rebrandings and | practically zero social media presence. People are still | starting more new projects with XNA than with Stride. | | I would be promising asset compatibility with Unity and | shouting about that everywhere if I were Stride. | dcow wrote: | Seriously curious to those in the gamedev community: how does | Unity acquiring an ad company materially effect the feature set | and platform that Unity currently provides? Is it one of those | "Unity has been going downhill in slow-mo for years now and this | investment is proof that they aren't interested in fixing real | issues that indie devs have--writing's on the wall..." type of | thing? From the outside, just seems like business as usual to | me... I genuinely don't understand the pull people feel to | entirely retool simply because Unity wants to do ads better. What | am I missing? | nitrixion wrote: | As a dev that uses Unity on a daily basis, here is my | perspective. | | If this was simply a matter of "Unity wants to do ads better" | and they purchased an adtech company, I doubt there would be | much discussion about it. That is not what happened. ironSource | is not just an adtech company but a company that has built and | distributed software that has been classified as malware by | Sophos and Microsoft Essentials[1]. | | While this may be an overdramatic take, once ironSource is | fully integrated with Unity and we update to the latest LTS | version that includes ironSource software, I expect that we | will want to virus scan _our own executables_ built through | Unity. I do not trust ironSource nor do I trust any software | that integrates with it. | | Now, putting the malware concern aside, I also see this as a | step in the wrong direction for Unity. There are MANY uses for | Unity that are not games, that will never have ads, and that | will never utilize anything from this acquisition. The concern | here is that recent updates of Unity have made some of these | features such that you _cannot_ disable them. | | To me, this is yet another poor decision by the Unity team. As | an aside, I recently started looking into their freshly | released new Analytics platform and it is an absolute mess of a | release. There are massive oversights in the implementation and | bugs that prevent workarounds to those oversights. | | Unity is not looking like software worth betting your company's | future on. At best, it is looking more like prototyping | software before using a better engine. | | [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IronSource#InstallCore | dleslie wrote: | As someone who has a mortgage and children to feed ... Unity | acquiring an ad company is encouraging. For years now Unity | seemed to be lost and directionless; having them merge with an | ad company shows that they're serious about focusing on | creating a product that will help developers turn a profit. | | But you won't hear many "indie" developers say as much, because | making money is uncool. | | That said, IronSource is sketchy as hell. I'm more concerned | about _who_ they merged with then that it was an ad company. | yomkippur wrote: | What if I want to create my own Roblox, how would I do that here? | Is there a 3d engine/game engine where I can tweak the editor and | distribute to my end users? | | The point is so that I can lean on the community to create the | content and I would just focus on maintaining game servers, and | adding moderators. | citizenkeen wrote: | I feel like now is a terrible time to use C# in Godot, since | they're (AFAIK) switching from Mono in 3.X to .NET Core in 4. | | I love Godot and I use .NET in my day job, but I feel like C# in | Godot has always been a second class citizen. | _gabe_ wrote: | What's wrong with .NET core? It's the future of .NET afaik and | it has multiplatform support and it's open source. | | > .NET (Core) -- A cross-platform and open source | implementation of .NET, rethought for the cloud age while | remaining significantly compatible with .NET Framework. Used | for Linux, macOS, and Windows apps.[0] | | [0]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/introduction | adamdusty wrote: | I think gp is saying that since it switch from mono to core | before you will be able to finish a game, you might have a | bad time when they switch implementations. | eropple wrote: | It's certainly possible that that's the case, but I've seen | a lot of projects go from Mono to .NET Core without much of | a hiccup, too. | | Probably worth pricing in some slack time to deal with it | if it's a problem, but I struggle to think of changes from | Mono to .NET Core which would be threatening to the ability | to finish a project. | 999900000999 wrote: | >You can also use C#'s events, which are strongly typed, but if | you need to interface with node events, you should use Godot's | signal system. | | Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope, I wasted 2 hours of my life trying to get | these signals to work in GD script. | | I'm going to try some other open source engines, but trying to | jerry-rig an extra language on top of a relatively immature | engine isn't a very good idea. | | Now I imagine if Microsoft decided to come out of an engine, they | could rationalize supporting six or seven languages. But if | you're already a small project, what ends up happening is the | other language support just isn't as good | cain wrote: | What issues did you have with GDscript's signals? I've been | using Godot for > 2 years and had no issues with them. | nchi3 wrote: | What didn't work for you? I remember thinking events were | surprisingly easy to use with GDScript when I tried the Godot 4 | alpha earlier this year. | 999900000999 wrote: | Compared to Get component with Unity, sending messages isn't | all that great. | | I'm looking at some other OSS engines now | dimgl wrote: | What? This is not at all what the author is describing (or | even what you're insinuating is bad in Godot). | bj-rn wrote: | Check out https://github.com/stride3d/stride | | It's MIT and fully written in C#. | overgard wrote: | As much as I'd like to use Godot, there are two features missing | that I really don't think I could do without: | | - Asset store. I totally get it, handling payments, curating, | etc. are a huge task... but man, I'm a coder, and I don't have | the funds to pay an artist or a musician full time. Being able to | just go buy a pack of trees for $20 or something is a huge timer | saver. | | - Animation re-targeting. It seems like there's a 3rd party | plugin for this but it also seems like it hasn't been updated in | a year. In unity I can buy a big pack of animations for pretty | cheap and reuse it on almost all my humanoid characters. That's | huge. I think this can be done in Blender or Maya, but it's so | seamless in the engine compared to using a 3rd party tool. | to-too-two wrote: | "Animation re-targeting." | | Yeah, that'd be cool. However, there are tools like Mixamo by | Adobe that provide lots of pre-made animations. | | As for an asset store for paid assets, there are already a few | 3rd party sites for this. | wly_cdgr wrote: | If you're just talking about some models or sprites, can't you | just buy them wherever in any file format Godot supports and | import them? Ok, you might have to spend a bit of time wrapping | them in Godot's nodes, but it seems like that would be quick | and trivial | TulliusCicero wrote: | Okay, and is there an ecosystem that makes it trivial to | find, buy and import such assets? How big and well designed | is that store? | | "You can technically do the same thing if you squint" misses | the point. | giancarlostoro wrote: | > - Asset store. I totally get it, handling payments, curating, | etc. are a huge task... but man, I'm a coder, and I don't have | the funds to pay an artist or a musician full time. Being able | to just go buy a pack of trees for $20 or something is a huge | timer saver. | | Heh I mentioned this in another Godot thread a few days ago. It | sounds like a potential YC funded startup for anyone inclined | and something that could be with the knowledge and | collaboration of the core maintainers of Godot as a simple | means to fund Godot. | sergiotapia wrote: | This doesn't sound like a good VC backed company. Bootstrap | it, make healthy profits and grow at a normal pace. | to-too-two wrote: | There's a few private/third-party sties that serve as a | marketplace for paid Godot assets. | TulliusCicero wrote: | It seems unlikely that'll ever be as useful to people as an | official store would be. | ttymck wrote: | Why is that? (I'm not too familiar with Godot or the | unity asset store) | to-too-two wrote: | Mostly trust. Finding it. Usually lacks the polish and | presentation an official asset store would have. | | Unity's asset store is pretty top-notch and is a good one | to compare other asset stores too. Unreal Engine's | marketplace pales in comparison. | | Link: https://assetstore.unity.com/ | to-too-two wrote: | Agreed for the most part, although there is the | possibility of one being really polished and catching on. | wkirby wrote: | I've been using Godot for hobby projects on-and-off for a while | now, and overall I vastly prefer it to Unity. The scene hierarchy | of Godot is a better mental model (for me) than the | GameObject/MonoBehavior ever was. | | That said, I have a _few_ items that I think are absolute | showstoppers for solo-dev side projects. | | 1. The asset pipeline is simply not as clean as Unity's. The | ability to drop a .blend file in the project in Unity is so | underrated. In Godot FBX imports are unreliable, texture imports | misbehave frequently, and rigging goes wrong even in the | recommended file formats. There's a lot less clarity around the | path to getting real assets in game, which can be a major pain | point for solo devs. | | 2. Along the same lines, there is no equivalent of Unity's | mecanim. With Unity, if you can model and rig a character in | Blender, you can pull free mocap or other animations from the | asset store and get to work. In Godot you're still best off | authoring your own animations for each character. This | drastically increases the amount of time spent making assets. | | 3. Godot is in a weird spot version wise for anyone who wants to | use C#; the beta version of 4.0 is rapidly approaching, and | guarantees to break any project you start in 3.x --- but 4.0 | still doesn't come built with C# support. Hopefully this gets | resolved soon. | didibus wrote: | I'd also recommend people check out Defold: https://defold.com/ | | I'm not a game dev, but its the engine King uses that they | completely open sourced, and I think it can be a good | alternative. | mdaniel wrote: | Maybe that's typical in gaming situations, but it has a weird | license: | https://github.com/defold/defold/blob/1.3.4/LICENSE.txt ("the | Defold License version 1.0") | aikah wrote: | Yes indeed, it's time to move from Unity to something else | because I don't want to pay for that kind of people's salary: | | > Devs not baking monetisation into the creative process are | "fucking idiots", says Unity's John Riccitiello | | https://mobilegamer.biz/devs-not-baking-monetisation-into-th... | | If he talks in public like that, imagine how this guy talks to | his employees behind closed doors... | hertzrat wrote: | > I've seen great games fail because they tuned their | compulsion loop to two minutes when it should have been an | hour. | | Nobody tries to hide anymore that a lot of game companies just | create skinner boxes | Kiro wrote: | The HN thread about the quote: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32097752 | BoorishBears wrote: | He didn't say that. | | "mobilegamer.biz" is betting on you not reading before getting | outraged, and it looks like that paid off. | dwallin wrote: | To be fair, the full comment is even more belittling than the | sound bite. It's almost dripping with contempt for those who | have a different set of values than him. | BoorishBears wrote: | It's ironic you say that because as someone who arguable | fits in the category he's talking about (see: my bleeding | heart comments about Unity's for-profit asset store from | yesterday) it feels somewhere between belittling and | insulting for people to act like grown adults would really | miss what his point was. | | There seems to be this "rainman-esque" infantilization of | people who put craft before profit that I truly deeply | hate. He spoke like he was having a frank, open, | conversation. That relies on everyone involved being | somewhat mature and not jumping to the worst possible | interpretation of everything. | | But I don't know, maybe people are right to treat "the | creatives" with the kiddie gloves based on the reaction | I've seen. | jibe wrote: | Full quote for context: | | _Riccitiello: Ferrari and some of the other high-end car | manufacturers still use clay and carving knives. It's a very | small portion of the gaming industry that works that way, and | some of these people are my favourite people in the world to | fight with - they're the most beautiful and pure, brilliant | people. They're also some of the biggest fucking idiots._ | dmitriid wrote: | Full quote doesn't make it better in the least | nnq wrote: | At least appreciate his honesty - it's way better for | everyone to be so blunt about it. | amatecha wrote: | Full interview is at | https://www.pocketgamer.biz/interview/79190/unity- | ironsource... | [deleted] | edmcnulty101 wrote: | I googled a picture of him and he seems like he smirks a lot. | | He also is being sued for sexual harassment...shocker. | yomkippur wrote: | Or calling developers "code monkey" like in Vancouver ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-07-14 23:00 UTC)