[HN Gopher] Hot Reloading in Swift
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Hot Reloading in Swift
Author : mgrayson
Score : 39 points
Date : 2022-07-14 20:25 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.merowing.info)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.merowing.info)
| markhelo wrote:
| "Microsoft has been killing it over the last decade regarding dev
| tooling and experience, so it is not a big surprise."
|
| To be fair, for all the flack Microsoft got/gets, the dev tooling
| for Windows ecosystem is miles ahead of anyone else and world
| class. Perhaps I am biased as I worked there at one point, but
| since I don't anymore, I have also seen tooling from Apple and
| Google and they are a couple of decades behind. There is some
| truth to why Steve Ballmer went ballistic with his Developer
| chant, they really built great tooling for developers.
| tester756 wrote:
| There's emoji after "killing it"
|
| I believe it changes meaning of this sentence.
| game-of-throws wrote:
| MS had "edit and continue" (aka hot reloading) in Visual Basic
| in the 90s. Then I switched to other languages and I've gone
| without it the rest of my career. I don't think VB the language
| is very good, but the developer experience still beats anything
| I've used since then.
| pjmlp wrote:
| With the caveat that Borland is even better before they decided
| to focus on enterprise customers, and went through all those
| acquisitions and name changes.
|
| Delphi and C++ Builder are still unmatched in many capabilities
| on the Visual Studio side.
| [deleted]
| refulgentis wrote:
| This is an odd response given the article calls at Google as
| having the gold standard for this, and I'm not sure there's any
| equivalent at all at MS? They push Flutter too
| jayd16 wrote:
| You mean like this?
|
| https://docs.microsoft.com/en-
| us/visualstudio/debugger/hot-r...
|
| "Microsoft has been killing it over the last decade regarding
| dev tooling and experience" was a direct quote from the
| article.
| refulgentis wrote:
| Thank you! That context makes it much clearer
| musesum wrote:
| Ironically, I think Brad Cox had something like this in mind,
| after coming up with Objective C. Or at least, pluggable
| components [1]
|
| I wonder what the threat model would be? Injectable binaries seem
| like a decent attack vector. But, if we're talking 2040, maybe a
| signable Merkle tree would do the trick.
|
| Meanwhile, have been experimenting with recompiling Metal code at
| runtime. Was kinda fun with ObjC/C++/OpenGL, a few years ago.
|
| [1] https://thenewstack.io/objective-cs-roots-in-the-life-of-
| bra...
| dmix wrote:
| Erlang has had hotloading for a long time and seems to be fine
| security wise AFAIK.
| astrange wrote:
| Objective-C used to support reloading but now explicitly does
| not (dlclose() doesn't do anything) because it's unsafe.
|
| Xcode used to have these features (called Zero Link and fix and
| continue) but they were quickly removed because nobody used
| them.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| If you read the first edition of his book[1], it's pretty clear
| about what he was trying for, which IIRC was essentially
| resumable software components as black boxes that you could buy
| off the shelf and integrate in your own products.
|
| I find this quote interesting:
|
| > But in addition, "I had just become incredibly annoyed with
| proprietary languages," he said. Fortran vendors, for instance,
| would add extra features to try to lock customers into their
| particular version.
|
| But this is exactly what he did with Objective-C -- it was a
| proprietary language until NeXT bought his company! It could
| have had widespread adoption had there been a widely available
| implementation.
|
| [1] https://archive.org/details/objectorientedpr00coxb
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