[HN Gopher] Blue Zones, where people reach age 100 at 10 times g...
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Blue Zones, where people reach age 100 at 10 times greater rates
Author : ivanvas
Score : 170 points
Date : 2022-07-18 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| k__ wrote:
| Does this account for pension fraud?
| 1-6 wrote:
| I'd like to see a post mortem on that!
| ghufran_syed wrote:
| https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/blue-zones-diet-speculation....
| fleddr wrote:
| "Knowing your sense of purpose is worth up to 7 years of extra
| life expectancy."
|
| Uh-oh.
|
| "Research shows that attending faith-based services 4 times per
| month will add 4 to 14 years of life expectancy."
|
| Looks like my atheism is is worse than smoking, who knew.
| pcurve wrote:
| lol! I needed that laugh, thanks. I know you're being funny,
| but if you already hold similar belief systems and also
| practice healthy living / thinking on your own, you'll be fine.
| fleddr wrote:
| I'm technically a Roman Catholic. My parents told me that if
| I performed the rituals, like communion, I'd get a new bike
| and it would make grandma happy. My father's belief system:
|
| Dad: "It's freezing in this church".
|
| Mum: "Shhhht! We're in session, have some respect".
|
| Dad: "At least it will be warm in hell".
| Qem wrote:
| Did they control for marriage and divorce? Maybe religious
| people are just more likely to marry and remain married when
| older. Lonely elderly people are at increased risk of death, as
| loneliness increase risk of mental disease and death from
| disease and accidents, when nobody is around to call help
| fleddr wrote:
| Maybe, but in that case they could just say "married couples
| live longer".
|
| I really think they're referring to the communal feeling of
| religion. Forget about the religion itself, it's an
| incredibly effective way to get to know hundreds of people,
| which enriches your life.
|
| We're social creatures and religion is social on steroids.
| Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
| Who would want another twenty years once you hit seventy five?
| bergenty wrote:
| Me, I don't want to die. Just watching the world go by is fun.
| dwighttk wrote:
| Get back to me when you're 75
| boutell wrote:
| Blinking repeatedly at the idea that Okinawa is in the "South
| Pacific."
| KerrAvon wrote:
| I saw the headline and I seriously assumed someone was claiming
| to have discovered that people in some areas of the world
| experienced accelerated aging.
|
| (In case it's changed, the headline when I read it: "Blue Zones,
| where people reach age 100 at 10 times greater rates")
| q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote:
| Yeah, I came here for the obligatory Doppler shift joke. I
| don't see one, so I'll give it a try:
|
| Maybe they're called Blue Zones because they're moving towards
| us so quickly that we can see all their wrinkles more clearly.
| So they're not really centenarians, but they just look older!
| 867-5309 wrote:
| thought you were going to say "moving towards us so quickly
| that their electromagnetic wavelengths are blueshifted"
| daveslash wrote:
| That is _exactly_ how I took it at first. Came to the comment
| thread to see if I was the only one.
| robocat wrote:
| The 9 factors:
|
| _Move naturally_. The world's longest-lived people do not pump
| iron, run marathons, or join gyms. Instead, they live in
| environments that constantly nudge them into moving without
| thinking about it. They grow gardens and do not have mechanical
| conveniences for house and yard work.
|
| _Purpose_. The Okinawans call it Ikigai and the Nicoyans call it
| plan de vida; for both, it translates to "why I wake up in the
| morning." Knowing your sense of purpose is worth up to 7 years of
| extra life expectancy.
|
| _Downshift_. Even people in the Blue Zones experience stress.
| Stress leads to chronic inflammation, associated with every major
| age-related disease. What the world's longest-lived people have
| that others do not are routines to shed that stress. Okinawans
| take a few moments each day to remember their ancestors;
| Adventists pray; Ikarians take a nap; and Sardinians do happy
| hour.
|
| _80% Rule_. Hara hachi bu--the Okinawan 2500-year old Confucian
| mantra said before meals reminds them to stop eating when their
| stomachs are 80% full. The 20% gap between not being hungry and
| feeling full could be the difference between losing weight or
| gaining it. People in the Blue Zones eat their smallest meal in
| the late afternoon or early evening, and then, they do not eat
| any more the rest of the day.
|
| _Plant slant_. Beans, including fava, black, soy, and lentils,
| are the cornerstone of most centenarian diets. Meat--mostly pork
| --is eaten on average only 5 times per month. Serving sizes are 3
| to 4 oz, about the size of a deck of cards.
|
| _Wine @ 5_. People in all Blue Zones (except Adventists) drink
| alcohol moderately and regularly. Moderate drinkers outlive
| nondrinkers. The trick is to drink 1 to 2 glasses per day
| (preferably Sardinian Cannonau wine), with friends and /or with
| food. And no, you cannot save up all week and have 14 drinks on
| Saturday.
|
| _Belong_. All but 5 of the 263 centenarians interviewed belonged
| to some faith-based community. Denomination does not seem to
| matter. Research shows that attending faith-based services 4
| times per month will add 4 to 14 years of life expectancy.
|
| _Loved ones first_. Successful centenarians in the Blue Zones
| put their families first. This means keeping aging parents and
| grandparents nearby or in the home (it lowers disease and
| mortality rates of children in the home too.). They commit to a
| life partner (which can add up to 3 years of life expectancy) and
| invest in their children with time and love. (They'll be more
| likely to care for aging parents when the time comes.)
|
| _Right tribe_. The world's longest lived people chose--or were
| born into--social circles that supported healthy behaviors,
| Okinawans created moais--groups of 5 friends that committed to
| each other for life. Research from the Framingham Studies2 shows
| that smoking, obesity, happiness, and even loneliness are
| contagious. So the social networks of long-lived people have
| favorably shaped their health behaviors.
| tolstoshev wrote:
| My bet is blue zones are just places where they don't have good
| longevity records so you get a bunch of fake centenarians. That
| turned out to be the case in Japan:
| https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-11258071 and I think
| also in Greece.
|
| People were just keeping dead relatives "alive" for the social
| security or rent control.
| genjipress wrote:
| Andrei Codrescu had a monologue once, about how the world is in
| truth peopled by two-thousand year old men who "arrived at
| their great age with the aid of daily doses of yogurt,
| cigarettes, vodka, and dubious birth records. ... With the
| exception of their eyelashes, which reach to the ground, they
| are in very good shape."
| jandrese wrote:
| Sometimes people were assuming a parent's name to avoid paying
| inheritance tax. I remember speculation about the oldest woman
| in the world may have in fact been her daughter.
| postsantum wrote:
| Another common reason is evading the draft during war due to
| old age. In my country the region with longest living people is
| infamous with high corruption rates and general poverty. It
| also has the highest natal mortality rate which might be a
| contributing factor too
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Glad to see this up at the top. Here is another article that
| specifically talks about Sardinia and Okinawa, 2 of the
| identified "Blue Zones", and really puts it down to poor record
| keeping: https://www.vox.com/2019/8/8/20758813/secrets-ultra-
| elderly-...
| [deleted]
| ancorevard wrote:
| Loma Linda in California?
| pcurve wrote:
| Apparently they did a study on this..
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/25/health/longevity-blue-zone-
| we...
|
| high percentage of vegetarians, active lifestyle, religious
| folks, etc.
| tsaprailis wrote:
| I have read the same thing about Greece's Ikaria island
| centenarians.
|
| As an anecdote my grandfather born in remote mountain village
| in mainland Greece in the 1900 was actually registered by his
| father having been born in 1906 as to avoid being drafted as
| long as possible to fight in the multiple wars fought at the
| time. So birth records and certificates from that time are not
| really trustworthy.
| Aeolun wrote:
| How do you go and register a 7 year old as having been born a
| few days ago?
| vorpalhex wrote:
| I don't think you bring the kid with you.
| omega3 wrote:
| With the help of a bribe.
| stickfigure wrote:
| I'm guessing that paper records were not especially
| rigorous in Greece in the early 1900s.
| scifibestfi wrote:
| > team of demographers, scientist and anthropologists were able
| to distill the evidence-based common denominators of these Blue
| Zones into 9 commonalities that they call the Power 9
|
| Incredibly embarrassing for all involved if your bet is
| correct. None of them considered that possibility?
| t-3 wrote:
| They apparently interviewed over 200 centenarians, and
| visited all the locations.
| ip26 wrote:
| On the other hand, we know from other research that physical
| activity, social engagement, low alcohol consumption, and the
| Mediterranean diet are all healthy. Can it be just coincidence
| all 7 blue zones exhibit these things?
| franze wrote:
| Spending a lot of time in greece in rural areas in the 90ies in
| my teens. Quite a lot of older greek did not even know or care
| about their birthday, as it was not celebrated. Name day was
| the big thing.
|
| And I loved the stories when the government introduced a new
| land registry (based on reality) and the chaos the ensured, as
| suddenly lot of land was owned 2 or more times, officially
| unknown villages were officially discovered ...
|
| I would definitely question the validity of the historic birth
| register, a lot.
| BeefySwain wrote:
| > And I loved the stories when the government introduced a
| new land registry (based on reality) and the chaos the
| ensured
|
| Could you provide some links expanding on this? Or a phrase
| to Google? Sounds fascinating.
| franze wrote:
| a quick google showed this
|
| https://www.elra.eu/the-present-landscape-of-land-
| registrati...
|
| The traditional land registry was from 1853 which seems was
| just a good enough description of what one owns.
|
| In 1995 a land cadastre was created and it came into law in
| 1998 to replace the old system. A land survey was started
| to move presume land ownership from the old into the new
| system. This land survery / chaos was definitely still
| going on end of the 2000 years in Crete.
| mfer wrote:
| The researchers questioned these details, too. Any place
| labeled a blue zone has to have excellent records they could
| trace. One of the blue zones is in California. It's worth
| looking at their process
| teruakohatu wrote:
| Half the residents of that town are 7th Day Adventists
| according to Wikipedia:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loma_Linda,_California
|
| Blue zones could simply be a result of the The modifiable
| areal unit problem (MAUP):
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifiable_areal_unit_probl
| e...
| margalabargala wrote:
| Things in common across blue zones: mild latitudes, near a
| coastline, consistent weather, mild diet with plenty of fish,
| poor record keeping...
| atourgates wrote:
| I assume your comment is semi-tongue-in-cheek, but Loma
| Linda's the counter to several of those points.
|
| Loma Linda's core contributing factors seem to be:
|
| * High incidence of vegetarianism
|
| * High incidence of non-smokers and non-drinkers
|
| * Strong religious / social community
|
| * Access to great healthcare
|
| All while having birth records that are just about as
| accurate as anyplace else in the United States.
| TylerE wrote:
| But it conforms to many of the others... it's only 20 miles
| inland from the pacific, and has an (albeit warmer than
| normal) Mediterranean climate... "winter" lows are rarely
| below the mid 40s.
| TimTheTinker wrote:
| I grew up in the Loma Linda area as a Seventh-day
| Adventist (though I left Adventism as a teenager). My
| grandparents all lived past 90, and my great-grandfather
| died at 100.
|
| Epidemiologically speaking, I think SDAs in general live
| longer because they don't smoke, don't drink, and don't
| eat meat -- and have a religious community in which doing
| so is against God's law.
|
| Smog in the whole Inland Empire area is still pretty bad,
| especially in the summer. It gets pretty hot in the
| summer, not very cold in the winter - a lot like LA, but
| hotter :)
| bcatanzaro wrote:
| Loma Linda is more like 60 miles from the pacific.
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Loma+Linda,+CA/Huntington
| +Be...
| pcurve wrote:
| Also smaller stature. Large and tall people have more cells,
| and higher chance of cancer.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Interesting correlation: Eating more meat seems to cause
| people to grow larger, but there is no strong evidence that
| being physically larger has intrinsic benefits outside of
| physical strength (which is arguably not very important).
| You do however need to eat more, you're more likely to get
| cancer, heart disease, suffer from chronic inflammation,
| etc.
|
| Interestingly, statistics about growing larger are often
| used to support more meat eating by meat advocates. There
| is a lot of talk about protein quality, and the implication
| is that smaller people are disadvantaged - as though they
| must be growing less by all measures, not just stature. It
| isn't so clear that this is true though, and there's plenty
| of evidence to suggest we shouldn't strive to grow larger
| (either in stature or in lean mass).
|
| I'm not saying there is a certain truth in there at all. I
| do find the correlations fascinating though. It defies a
| lot of what I understood about nutrition for most of my
| life so it's definitely something I'd like to see more data
| on. I'm open to a meat-based diet being superior overall
| (or any tasty diet, really).
| kzrdude wrote:
| My health-obsessed doctor friend told me that muscle mass
| is a good predictor for health in later life, which was
| surprising to me (I thought fitness, heart/lung etc was
| the thing). I wouldn't dismiss it. :)
| Swizec wrote:
| [relative] Muscle mass has a very strong correlation with
| healthy habits.
|
| You just don't see a lot of sedentary people with poor
| nutrition who have a high muscle mass index.
| docandrew wrote:
| How is physical strength unimportant? Stronger people are
| harder to kill (h/t Rippetoe) and improved strength also
| helps to avoid carpal tunnel syndrome and neck/back pain
| for those of us at a computer all day.
| zacharycohn wrote:
| Speaking as a fellow Starting Strength fan: this is only
| true in the modern era to the extent that being healthy
| is better than being unhealthy.
|
| If you look at the top X causes of death in humans, very
| very few of them could have been avoided "if only the
| deceased were stronger."
| kzrdude wrote:
| Falling and then breaking bones or getting ill otherwise
| is a common cause of death, and muscle mass and fitness
| helps avoid it.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5899404/
| baal80spam wrote:
| > Large and tall people have more cells, and higher chance
| of cancer.
|
| I've never looked at it like that. Is it true?
| pcurve wrote:
| sadly data seems to indicate so. :-/
|
| https://www.wcrf.org/why-taller-people-are-at-greater-
| risk-o...
|
| https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/taller-people-
| mor...
| samscully wrote:
| It does appear to be true for humans. Though
| interestingly there isn't a correlation between species
| size and cancer risk [1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peto%27s_paradox
| pcurve wrote:
| Just to clarify:
|
| Across different species, there's no correlation.
|
| Within the same species though, there is correlation.
| mfer wrote:
| To qualify as a "blue zone" they have to have good records.
|
| Now that they know about these places, scientists have spent a
| fair amount of time studying and publishing about them.
| franze wrote:
| Strange then that i.e.: the Okinawa Blue Zone seems to have
| been dissolved in modern (record keeping) times.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3362219/
| mfer wrote:
| In modern times it dissolved due to diet changes. Looking
| at the blue zone in California is one of the most
| enlightening because they can control for so many factors,
| the records are excellent, and the people seem to be
| generally open to being studied. There they have found how
| diet and lifestyle plays a huge role in longevity
| thenerdhead wrote:
| What about sleep? Do they sleep a consistent amount of time
| compared to industrialized zones?
| 1-6 wrote:
| We're just stumbling on natural Pareto principles.
| JackFr wrote:
| Pure nonsense.
|
| https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704080v2
|
| "Supercentenarian and remarkable age records exhibit patterns
| indicative of clerical errors and pension fraud"
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Your posted article highlights a really great statistical
| principle that I also discovered on my own owning a really rare
| car: if someone (company) claims to have parts in stock, it was
| most likely due to a database error, not the actual parts,
| because the probability of having the parts was so low. Reports
| of highly improbable events are probably not true in general.
|
| That seems to explain incredible longevity also- if it
| basically doesn't actually happen, then instances of it are
| therefore actually instances of error/fraud.
| tempestn wrote:
| These are examples of Bayesian reasoning.
|
| Although in this case the paper's authors did attempt to
| account for such errors.
| ChrisLomont wrote:
| That paper has not been published, despite being posted several
| years, and the top comment under it seems to supply a decent
| counter claim with evidence. My guess is it's not as accurate
| as to support your claim of "pure nonsense."
| JackFr wrote:
| You make a fair point, but the problem is, I read the
| article.
|
| And it is utter bullshit, published in a fourth tier journal
| by a non-scientist with something to sell.
|
| "Blue zone", "power 9", "vitality compass" -- please spare
| me. This is pure pseudo-scientific crap.
| dxbydt wrote:
| Is a 2016 National Geo docu.
|
| Features Stamatis Moraitis. Dead.
|
| Features Dr. Ellsworth Wareham. Dead.
|
| Features Marge Jetton. Dead.
|
| Features....oh well I don't want to spoil your day. They are all
| dead.
|
| https://abcnews.go.com/Health/photos/photos-greek-isle-resid...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellsworth_Wareham
|
| https://adventist.news/news/blue-zones-icon-jetton-dies-at-1...
| melling wrote:
| They all lived to be 100. Not bad.
|
| I suppose if we hoped they'd get to 110, we might actually have
| to do a bit of research.
|
| At the moment, we're simply relying on getting lucky to get to
| 100.
| axlee wrote:
| Terrible take. How old were they when they died? Of course, if
| you are 95+, you are very likely to die soon, but you you are
| still part of a 2% percentile of longevity, and that's with
| western actuarial tables that don't reflect at all longevity in
| other places.
| anamexis wrote:
| What is your point? I would expect anyone over 100 would be
| extremely likely to die within 8 years.
| sbierwagen wrote:
| Per the 2019 Social Security actuarial table, a 100 year old
| man has a 34% chance of dying within one year:
| https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html
| khuey wrote:
| Per the SSA actuarial tables a 100 year old man has a 95%
| chance of being dead 6 years later and a 100 year old woman
| has a 92.5% chance of being dead 6 years later.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| How do you live well over 100? Just say you do.
| schrodinger wrote:
| It's not impossible. I've got a friend who is 84 and still
| traveling the world and sexually active, and everyone in his
| immediate family has made it past 100. He also got covid twice.
| Really depends.
| fleddr wrote:
| A way to summarize it: undo many of the "advances" of the last 50
| years, and live the longest. Perhaps they weren't really advances
| after all.
| franze wrote:
| Keeping aside the record keeping issues.
|
| If you search for outliers, you will find outliers.
|
| Looking for correlation between these outliers, does not equal
| that the correlation between them, is the causation of each of
| these outliers.
| throwaways85989 wrote:
| Is the blue a reference to the phrase turning grandpa "blue" for
| pension aka keeping him post natural mortem in the freezer?
|
| Several countries on this list are "low" trust societies?" so the
| data could be explained very well with it.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=404IeUzGNZ4
| xcskier56 wrote:
| No, the author, Dan Buettner has a consulting practice around
| helping companies, orgs, municipalities implement the lessons
| from Blue Zones to help build healthier environments.
| https://www.bluezones.com/ Where the Blue came from I'm not
| sure.
| klyrs wrote:
| My mind went to "blue haired grannies"
| https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ElderlyBlueHaire...
| bks wrote:
| This ^^ https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/643186/why-old-
| ladies-ha...
| IncRnd wrote:
| "They are called Blue Zones because when Buettner and his
| colleagues were searching for these areas, they drew blue
| circles around them on a map." [1]
|
| [1] https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/blue-zones
| fredski42 wrote:
| I believe it was because those areas were marked on a map using
| a blue marker.
| hammock wrote:
| Now do Green Zones with the highest rates of generational wealth
| preservation.
| ushakov wrote:
| > The trick is to drink 1 to 2 glasses per day
|
| here we go again -_-
|
| what are they gonna "find out" next?
|
| > "Lessons from the happiest people on planet"
|
| > The trick is to take 1 to 2 MDMA per day
| gridder wrote:
| I don't know about the other 4 locations, but regarding Sardinia,
| yes, it's true. No frauds involved. It's the climate, the food
| and the simple living style.
| citilife wrote:
| The largest factors seem to be purpose and community:
|
| > Belong. All but 5 of the 263 centenarians interviewed belonged
| to some faith-based community. Denomination does not seem to
| matter. Research shows that attending faith-based services 4
| times per month will add 4 to 14 years of life expectancy.
|
| > Loved ones first. Successful centenarians in the Blue Zones put
| their families first. This means keeping aging parents and
| grandparents nearby or in the home (it lowers disease and
| mortality rates of children in the home too.). They commit to a
| life partner (which can add up to 3 years of life expectancy) and
| invest in their children with time and love. (They'll be more
| likely to care for aging parents when the time comes.)
|
| > Right tribe. The world's longest lived people chose--or were
| born into--social circles that supported healthy behaviors,
| Okinawans created moais--groups of 5 friends that committed to
| each other for life. Research from the Framingham Studies2 shows
| that smoking, obesity, happiness, and even loneliness are
| contagious. So the social networks of long-lived people have
| favorably shaped their health behaviors.
| JackFr wrote:
| Also, informal record keeping.
| santiagobasulto wrote:
| This looks far from a scientific study. But it still is a fun
| reading and good guessing game.
| slyall wrote:
| I was thinking that if Covid continues at it's current level we
| are going to see a huge drop in the number of people reaching
| 100.
|
| Not many people are going to survive catching covid 20 times in
| their 80s and 90s.
| DennisP wrote:
| Hopefully the universal covid vaccines will work out.
| mmaunder wrote:
| "Research shows that attending faith-based services 4 times per
| month will add 4 to 14 years of life expectancy."
|
| Well shit.
| ChrisLomont wrote:
| This has been debunked in general if I recall. It turned out
| only to be true for the majority religion in a region (and not
| help for others), and then turned out to be the social
| connections got people better services and health support.
| Religion was not useful for the effect.
| galaxyLogic wrote:
| It sounds weird they say 4 to 14 years. What does that mean?
| Does it mean on average it adds 8 years? But since this is all
| about averages anyway why not just state the average?
|
| Or does it mean always 4 and never more than 14?
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| 4-14 is probably something like the 95% confidence interval
| fleddr wrote:
| We live in a timeline where conspiracy theorists turn out to be
| right and now this.
| SQueeeeeL wrote:
| It turns out having a community and feeling of purpose in life
| actually has tangible benefits, who would've thought.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| Or it could be that a sky demon bestows blessings on the
| cultists who worship it. You never do know!
| mmaunder wrote:
| Joining a group that believes in magical sky dwelling beings
| that grant eternal life in utopia provided you worship them
| enough isn't the only path to community and purpose.
| fleddr wrote:
| Yet I challenge you to find one more effective.
|
| Whether by force/dogma or voluntary, a uniformly religious
| community connects at least weekly and includes all.
| Through this meeting, you get to know pretty much
| everybody, what they do, their families, their businesses.
| Which serves as a platform for making friends, finding
| partners, business opportunities, the like.
| setuids wrote:
| maybe, but it's still a pretty easy way to do it
| latency-guy2 wrote:
| But it's one of many, and is one of the simplest ways to
| join a community as they are literally everywhere.
|
| For the time/effort needed to join this community (plural),
| its pretty much free, maintenance isn't all that much
| either. People a few hundred years ago already did the hard
| part.
|
| Not a bad deal. And all you have to do is suspend a little
| disbelief in something for a while.
| bergenty wrote:
| It isn't but we haven't found another system that works as
| well yet. The delusion really gives purpose to life. We
| haven't found another way to provide a comparable delusion.
| akavi wrote:
| The delusion is also a "costly signal" that you're
| committed to the group.
| enviclash wrote:
| For an expat like myself, the community aspect is the most
| difficult part. How can you create a community if you are hopping
| countries every 4-6 years?
| ip26 wrote:
| I don't think you do. How can you possibly build strong
| relationships if you're here today, gone tomorrow?
| IncRnd wrote:
| Have a co-expat hop countries with you.
| stevesimmons wrote:
| > How can you create a community if you are hopping countries
| every 4-6 years?
|
| Stop hopping before you get old and infirm. Become part of the
| local support network helping those older and less fortunate
| than yourself. In turn, you get helped by those around you.
| bergenty wrote:
| Religion. I'm as atheist as you can get but I still go to
| Catholic Church on weekends just to form community. Religious
| people are also generally good upstanding people (if you ignore
| their bigotry against LGBTQ people)
| t6jvcereio wrote:
| Alcohol? Really? I thought we'd gotten rid of that urban myth...
| t-3 wrote:
| I'm not sure I buy their list of what makes people live longer,
| but I found it interesting that 3/5 locations seem to be ~40
| degrees north latitude (and 3/5 islands, all locations are very
| near oceans/seas). It makes sense that all locations would be in
| warmer areas, as that vastly reduces the dependency on meat
| consumption, but more bias towards the equator would be expected
| if that was all. 40 south only touches the edge of Australia and
| the tail of South America, but I wonder how the life expectancy
| compares?
| ochoseis wrote:
| > It makes sense that all locations would be in warmer areas,
| as that vastly reduces the dependency on meat consumption
|
| Are you implying causation or correlation? For example, I can
| imagine northern latitudes having more variable stocks of
| animals (and other food) during bad winters, so averages matter
| less than extremes.
| t-3 wrote:
| I'm just reasoning that if crops don't grow half the year,
| you're much less likely to eat a plant-based diet, which is
| one of their points for living longer.
| docandrew wrote:
| Maybe there's just a higher number of elderly there in general,
| from people retiring to warmer climes?
| mrtksn wrote:
| There's a recent video from Yes Theory on the topic:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhtc3EX12Z8
|
| TL:DW; They go to a Blue Zone village Seulo in Italy's Sardinia
| Island and spend some time there. The village looks pretty normal
| in general, they use technology they have plastics all over the
| place, they eat meat drink vine - albeit locally sourced. On
| thing that stands out is, maybe, the active lifestyle of the old
| people and strong community.
| skrap wrote:
| Should be marked [2016], it seems.
| pastor_bob wrote:
| It seems counterintuitive that:
|
| 1. Moderate drinkers outlive nondrinkers. Moderate being 1-2
| drinks a day, which IMO is a lot.
|
| 2. Diets high in carbs seem to be ok.
|
| I guess low caloric intake and low stress outweigh any of the
| negative effects of the above
| jandrese wrote:
| 3. Don't get fat.
|
| Having a diet high in carbs is fine so long as it is reasonably
| well balanced and you aren't getting fat on it. It just really
| easy to get fat on carbs.
| fleddr wrote:
| 1. Indeed a controversial finding as 1-2 drinks a day being
| favorable was a classic finding which somehow got debunked
| about a decade ago. I suspect not because it isn't true, but
| instead because of the wildly different context. Stressed out
| people in a high productivity country drinking a few glasses of
| wine per day may soon turn into more. The alcohol acting as
| some kind of pain relief, rather than something to enjoy in
| moderation during a two hour lunch.
|
| 2. One thing that shouldn't be missed from the study is portion
| control. To never be full. I can personally attest that I feel
| at my best when empty. It's not the same as hungry, I'm talking
| about the state of having your last meal digested. I remember
| an older study about these centurions concluding that they were
| almost always "slightly hungry".
| kfarr wrote:
| Interesting how #1 seems to imply but not explicitly call out the
| relationship (or lack thereof) with motor vehicles. Their
| widespread usage in the US is one of the contributing factors in
| obesity.
| jacobkg wrote:
| I lived in Loma Linda for a few years (in Southern California, 60
| miles east of LA), which is one of the blue zones
|
| It is predominantly a 7th day Adventist community. Notably they
| prioritize healthy lifestyle and typically are vegetarian as well
| as avoiding alcohol, caffeine, etc.
|
| There is also a big medical school and hospital complex in the
| city and many people that live there work in the healthcare
| field.
|
| There are of course plenty of other explanations.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| Another fun fact about Loma Linda is that it was one of the
| last places in the country to get USPS service on Saturdays. Up
| until around 2010 they had regular mail deliveries on Sunday
| instead.
| nostromo wrote:
| Whenever you hear about a paper creating a new term (like "Blue
| Zones") -- you can guarantee that the author also has a book out
| with the same name.
|
| And so... https://www.amazon.com/dp/1426209487
|
| They usually also have a company with the same name that sells
| speaking engagements or consulting... https://www.bluezones.com/
|
| And of course, you need a modestly astroturfed Wikipedia
| article... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone
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