[HN Gopher] Are forum platforms dead?
___________________________________________________________________
Are forum platforms dead?
Author : rosiesherry
Score : 116 points
Date : 2022-07-20 19:54 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (rosie.land)
(TXT) w3m dump (rosie.land)
| norwalkbear wrote:
| Yes and honestly private groups are increasingly heavily probably
| as a response to censors and scolds.
| devonkim wrote:
| SomethingAwful still keeps running along although site activity
| is probably nowhere near its peak. But that may be better off
| given the remaining users tend to offer higher signal to noise
| ratio in post content and the members have mostly matured into
| not being as horrible people for the most part.
| travisgriggs wrote:
| My personal preference (based on experience) for things like
| software development questions/discussion has been
|
| Best: - Mailing lists/Slack/newsgroups back in the day
|
| Middle: - Stack Overflow, though it feels like traffic has gotten
| less over the years. The orthodox moderators took over
|
| Worst: - Forums, whether syndicated like Discord or their own
| proprietary thing (I'm looking at you Microchip, Atmel, and
| STMicro)
|
| There have been exceptions. But that has been my experience.
| tannhaeuser wrote:
| Can confirm the depth and longevity of mailing lists compared
| to classic forums and HN/Reddit with sometimes week-long
| threads if not necessarily with daily or more frequent cadence
| which also works wonders for quality. Think open-ended
| discussions and responses without time pressure but with good
| quotes and references rather than "quick wins", memes, and
| barely hidden intents of manipulation which is also a thing on
| HN. Also, the option of PMing.
|
| Mailing lists should be used more again, they've become
| somewhat out of fashion for no good reason.
| eximius wrote:
| In my experience, yes, and Discord ate them.
|
| I dearly miss phpBB style forums. (I strongly dislike Discourse,
| somehow, despite being the only modern spiritual successor.)
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if Discord eventually did a message
| board in its client. There's a fairly natural outgrowth there.
| trinovantes wrote:
| It's actually a new feature being tested right now
|
| https://support.discord.com/hc/en-
| us/articles/6208479917079-...
| tester756 wrote:
| >I dearly miss phpBB style forums. (I strongly dislike
| Discourse, somehow, despite being the only modern spiritual
| successor.)
|
| For me its layout. I prefer phpBB layout
| amatecha wrote:
| I notice a lot of forums are being bought up by companies who
| then convert the forum to their own forum software/platform so
| they can serve ads and sell products to the "captive audience".
| For example, VerticalScope[0] who use nice euphemistic PR
| language like "enabling the world to share expertise and discover
| knowledge on subjects they love", which actually means "we buy
| thriving forums so we can sell advertising on them". According to
| their own site, they have 1200+ forums. Pretty disappointing, but
| the commercialization and monetary exploitation of the internet
| knows no bounds.
|
| I love the testimonials on one page[1] where they market to
| businesses: "By utilizing the VerticalScope network of sites, we
| are able to engage with enthusiasts and position our business as
| a contributor in order to better understand our customers,
| improve products and service, and build brand awareness."
|
| One thing I'm really curious is how much the payout is for forum
| admins who sell their community to businesses like this. I'm
| basically not really willing to participate in forums anymore
| because this (or a domain squat) appears to be the ultimate
| destination of the overwhelming majority of them. Well, that and
| their likelihood of becoming an avenue for adware/malware
| distribution since they get hacked constantly. :P
|
| Oh, it turns out VerticalScope isn't immune to the "getting
| hacked" issue, either, as some 45 million accounts were
| compromised a while back[2]. Now a whole different type of
| business can "engage with enthusiasts", it seems.
|
| On the upside, it appears their UI has improved greatly since
| they first started buying up forums. Initially the usability was
| pretty poor IMO, but now is fairly acceptable.
|
| [0] https://www.verticalscope.com/
|
| [1] https://www.suzuki-forums.com/business/
|
| [2] https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/11/2nd-breach-at-
| verticalsc...
| JoshCole wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
| coding123 wrote:
| There's a big difference between forums where a few hundred to
| maybe 1000 people will see your content and social media
| platforms that "bubble up" popular content so that millions of
| people see it: Only loud mouths get the microphone in social
| media and calm "normal people" get the microphone in smaller
| forums.
|
| Also forums are perfect for simple things like "Which nails do
| you recommend for siding: x or y?" You can't really get that
| answered in Twitter. I mean I get that people ask the same thing
| or one of the Stack Exchange sites - but there's no sense of
| "community" so instead of trusting Awesome Bob who's a veteran
| builder of 15 years your simply trusting the answer with the most
| upvotes. I mean I get it - that's the platform that gets us away
| from trusting AwesomeBob forever.
|
| But that also takes away that "cohesive" single source of truth
| that we're looking for in the big picture (building a home for
| this example) where AwesomeBob recommends a series of things that
| works together.
|
| In the stack exchange model you're just getting the top
| recommended things for each category but it's also wrong for
| different areas. Like the kind of siding we'd use in California
| may not be appropriate in other areas of the country (OK bad
| example - everyone should use James Hardie or LP Smart Side).
| post_break wrote:
| Subreddits have taken over, but car forums are still thriving.
| zwieback wrote:
| came here to say that. Always use forums for repair advice.
| rosiesherry wrote:
| Do you have any examples?
| tmh88j wrote:
| https://www.gtrlife.com/forums/
|
| https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/
|
| https://www.camaro6.com/forums/
|
| https://rennlist.com/forums/
|
| Most car related subreddits are used like instagram or news
| aggregators with very little substance you can't easily find
| elsewhere.
| post_break wrote:
| Sure, almost any new car platform will have a forum. 6G
| mustang, Fiesta ST, Focus ST, Honda accord.
|
| https://www.fiestastforum.com/
|
| https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/
|
| Almost every new generation of car will either get a new
| forum website, or added forum group. Fun fact, a lot of these
| are owned by one company. There is also tapatalk which
| charges money for access.
| stilldavid wrote:
| I believe VW Vortex[0] is (or at least was) the largest forum
| by number of users. I have a Tacoma and receive dozens of
| replies on Tacoma World[1], usually within an hour, on posts
| I've made with questions or comments about the vehicle. I'm
| sure there are more.
|
| 0: https://www.vwvortex.com/
|
| 1: https://www.tacomaworld.com/
| aeyes wrote:
| https://honda-tech.com/forums/
|
| https://www.m5board.com/forums/
| drusepth wrote:
| Forums for authors/writing also seem to be thriving,
| interestingly enough.
| reaperducer wrote:
| The whole "forums are dead" thing must be news to all of the
| various forums I visit regularly which are thriving.
|
| Examples:
|
| https://atariage.com/forums/index.php
|
| https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php
| tannhaeuser wrote:
| Wish that were true, but sadly forums went down with ad prices
| racing to the bottom around 2005 when forum pages became
| plastered with more and more ads to compete against targeted
| advertising. Also news aggregators including HN and Reddit did
| play a role in their demise.
| reaperducer wrote:
| Both of the forms I linked to have no advertising.
| nickt wrote:
| Wow, "CBM PET 2001 Strange Boot" with almost 2000 responses
| (100 pages) since April this year.
|
| https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/cbm-2001-pet-stran...
| alex_young wrote:
| Is HN a forum? What about Reddit? Facebook?
|
| Seems like the distinction between "forum" and "social media" is
| mostly about user count. Forums are pretty healthy if you draw
| that line in some reasonable location IMO.
| detaro wrote:
| Personally, I'd say Reddit and HN aren't forums because of the
| enforced time-limited nature of discussions.
| nomel wrote:
| I rarely see forums that don't automatically lock old
| discussions, to prevent necromancy.
| tester756 wrote:
| But it doesn't happen as fast as it does on HN.
|
| Once something drops from HN's front page - 12 hours? 24
| hours? 36 hours if it is really huge
|
| then it's dead.
| detaro wrote:
| but they need to have died for that. I know plenty forums
| that have threads that are running for months or years -
| because they've never gone for _$threshold_ weeks without a
| post. (and in general I tend to think locking after time is
| bad anyways, or at least should be able to be overridden)
|
| Whereas even within the days where it is still possible,
| you are not going to see "oh, this HN/Reddit discussion
| from last week is still active" because it doesnt get
| ranked anywhere based on that.
| grumbel wrote:
| The difference between "forum" and "social media" is how posts
| are sorted and displayed.
|
| HN and Reddit are focused on news, the newest stuff goes to the
| top and disappears after a day or two.
|
| Forums on the other side focus on topics. Threads with on going
| discussions go to the top. They never disappear, as soon as
| somebody makes a new post into a thread it goes back to the
| top.
|
| This means you can end up with extremely in depth and long
| ongoing discussions on forums that you'll never find on social
| media. It wasn't unusual to find threads on IMDB forums that
| spanned literally decades. Meanwhile on Reddit everything gets
| locked from any further participation after six months and
| becomes impossible to find after just a few days.
| easrng wrote:
| I'm pretty sure Reddit stopped locking posts by default.
| erulabs wrote:
| I'm really excited for https://www.forem.com/ - when I get some
| free time I plan on making it easier to setup for beginners.
| PHPBB was "self-hosted" - the old world of the internet was
| entirely "self-hosted". We can return again, to the old internet,
| anew. Everything old is new again!
| mdm12 wrote:
| Now if we can only convince VCs that 'web3' really means 'we
| host the servers again' and not that other nonsense.
| erulabs wrote:
| Hah I work on this every single day. I'm building tiny web-
| servers for consumers over at https://pibox.io - we like to
| say were "distributing the web; no blockchain required".
| Customers love the product, but VCs _hate_ it xD
| mdm12 wrote:
| Good on you for taking the road less traveled! I don't have
| the guts to pursue 'real' entrepreneurship like yourself,
| but I appreciate those who do!
| simjnd wrote:
| This is awesome. Seeing the mention of an App Store made me
| think of Umbrel [1] which is still in alpha but is a very
| approachable GUI for managing services running on your
| Raspberry.
|
| [1]: https://umbrel.com/
| erulabs wrote:
| Nice! We consider Umbrel a bit of a sister company :)
| They are more crypto focused, and we're more self-hosting
| focused, but we overlap in many ways. Umbrel software
| runs great on our hardware!
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| Flarum is worth checking too.
| simjnd wrote:
| Came here to say this Discourse [1] seems to be everywhere
| but I like Flarum [2] a lot, seems to be a little bit closer
| to the phpBB spirit. Both are OSS and self-hostable.
|
| [1]: https://meta.discourse.org/
|
| [2]: https://discuss.flarum.org/
| beefman wrote:
| I don't know about dead, but they've been in decline since 2013.
| The U.S. Presidential election in 2016 accelerated it. Most news
| outlets killed their comments sections around this time.[1]
|
| It's certainly less fun to discuss things if you're liable to get
| into an argument. And arguments degrade the readability of
| discussions for others.
|
| The transition to mobile phones certainly could be a factor, and
| the related Eternal September concept.[2]
|
| The increase in monetization is a factor, since advertiers don't
| want to be associated with objectionable comments.
|
| I think comment voting, though it has some benefits, is
| ultimately pretty toxic as well.
|
| But all these are proximal causes. This is a long-term cultural
| trend affecting forums, wikipedia contributions, office politics,
| and everything else. Anthropologists would say political
| fractionalization is increasing. People increasingly don't want
| to collaborate with those they disagree with on an expanding list
| of isuses.
|
| But even this is a proximal cause. What drives political
| fractionalization? What drives culture to be increasingly
| morbid?[3] I think the fundamental cause is that the energy
| gradient powering civilization is in decline. It's a Peak Oil
| -type idea, but focused on EROI instead of oil production.[4][5]
|
| In their heyday, forums were amazing.[6]
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comments_section#Closing_of_co...
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
|
| [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32166902
|
| [4] https://twitter.com/clumma/status/593890418028253185
|
| [5]
| https://gist.github.com/clumma/4c5016f808adde034a575f1dd7d40...
|
| [6] https://twitter.com/clumma/status/1538934712743231488
| balentio wrote:
| Let's be honest here. It's not "disagreement" that's the
| problem as such. It's if you disagree with the established
| narrative, or don't take the vax, or whatever else is in vogue
| you might be fired and get "icky juice on you" by being in
| proximity to someone who didn't drink the kool-aid.
| beefman wrote:
| There's no question that we've seen some sort of Great
| Awakening, with politics becoming a de novo religion, and
| that this activity is almost entirely concentrated on the
| left (perhaps because of greater competition from established
| religions on the right).
| swozey wrote:
| I'm personally sick of making logins to things and the hurdles
| you have to go through to join some Forums. Verify this, verify
| that, read a rules post, yadda yadda, can't share images because
| your friend needs an account too.
|
| It's a time investment. There was a point once where I must've
| had 20-30+ accounts to different forums and I'm reminded of them
| each birthday.
|
| Then the general lack of instantaneous responses like I almost
| always get on reddit, etc.
|
| I only use one nowadays, and it's an automobile forum I couldn't
| get anywhere else.
| hammock wrote:
| >I'm personally sick of making logins to things and the hurdles
| you have to go through to join some Forums. Verify this, verify
| that, read a rules post, yadda yadda, can't share images
| because your friend needs an account too.
|
| That's how I feel about discord
| reaperducer wrote:
| _I 'm personally sick of making logins to things and the
| hurdles you have to go through to join some Forums._
|
| A lot of the forums I visit allow you to instantly sign-up and
| log in with Google, Facebook, Twitter, and Apple, just like any
| other service.
|
| You may get your first ten posts previewed before they go live,
| but that's a minor inconvenience for keeping spam down.
|
| _It 's a time investment._
|
| If you're not willing to put in the very minor time investment,
| then you probably don't have much to contribute to the
| community, and it's better off for everyone if you remain a
| lurker, anyway.
| bnralt wrote:
| > If you're not willing to put in the very minor time
| investment, then you probably don't have much to contribute
| to the community, and it's better off for everyone if you
| remain a lurker, anyway.
|
| Yeah, I think friction actually makes some things better,
| since it weeds out the most disinterested individuals and
| shows the people involved have some desire beyond immediate
| gratification.
|
| Birthdays are a good example of this - in the past, someone
| who e-mailed you to wish you happy birthday was someone who
| had decided that you were important enough to them that
| they'd remember you're day of birth. The act meant something.
| But with Facebook, everyone gets sent a notification that
| it's someone's birthday, and many will send birthday wishes
| no matter how close they feel they are to the person. You
| come across profiles where it's obvious someone stopped using
| Facebook years ago, but every year on their birthday the same
| few people respond to a birthday notification and wish them a
| happy birthday, oblivious to the fact that they're no longer
| there.
|
| The interesting thing is, introducing an inferior option that
| has less friction often causes most people who used to be OK
| with the friction to now decide that it's too much of a
| hassle. Hence forums might be better, but people who used to
| use them will now opt for a worse Reddit sub if it's easier.
| Once Facebook started notifying people of birthdays, most
| people stopped trying to remember birthdays of people who
| weren't immediately around them even if those birthdays
| weren't listed on Facebook.
|
| I've read before that small changes in the friction in our
| environment can have big impacts on our behavior. It's
| interesting to see this in play, especially with many people
| choosing convenience over quality.
| foresto wrote:
| > If you're not willing to put in the very minor time
| investment,
|
| The time investment only seems minor if you view it in
| isolation. I probably have hundreds of forum accounts
| scattered about the web, and at this point, every additional
| signup feels like such a nuisance that I seldom bother any
| more. Too many paper cuts. (Especially when it comes time to
| update my email address.)
|
| > then you probably don't have much to contribute to the
| community,
|
| That logic breaks down when considering people who contribute
| high quality in low quantity. For example, when I go down a
| rabbit hole to solve a tricky problem, I might want to share
| the solution where others who need it are likely look for it.
| Sometimes that means a single post on a forum. Signup
| friction makes me less likely to share.
| KajMagnus wrote:
| > If you're not willing to put in the very minor time
| investment, then you probably don't have much to contribute
| to the community,
|
| Sometimes the person wants to post a reply to help someone
| else,
|
| and then a minor time investment can be a big hurdle? So the
| people in the forum gets less help -- they get help only from
| people who _themselves_ are wondering about something, and so
| are willing to spend the time to sign up?
|
| I think it'd be nice with global identities that worked
| across all forums. And one could have many, per person. One
| for work, one for a hobby, another for another...
| layer8 wrote:
| The point of forums is that it shouldn't be random
| strangers posting once only after they found some thread or
| post in a Google search result. It's intended for topics
| that you want to follow regularly.
| seydor wrote:
| Reddit is a single forum though, the same themes and banality
| on every subreddit, even same moderators. A community needs a
| bubble to grow in sophistication, and subreddits are too
| porous.
|
| Something like Mozilla Persona, easy login tied to an email,
| was the best solution imho
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I largely agree. Individual subreddits can have different
| cultures, but there's always a much larger degree of snide,
| low-quality posts than there are on most traditional forums
| (or here on HN, for that matter). Almost all subreddits'
| quality hovers in the Twitter range. I think this is mostly
| because anyone can join any subreddit with ease, so even the
| best moderators have to fight against a vast tide of
| newcomers pulling the culture toward the Reddit average.
| ryukafalz wrote:
| I feel like the redesign has blurred some of the boundaries
| between subreddits as well. On old Reddit subreddits were
| able to heavily customize the look, which made them feel
| more like their own separate spaces. Post-redesign, not so
| much.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Interesting, I hadn't considered that dynamic.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I find it often takes a few days to get a reply on forums but
| it is better than the heat death of Reddit.
|
| That birthday thing is pretty annoying though.
| jsemrau wrote:
| What is the "heat death" of Reddit?
| aquaduck wrote:
| I assume "heat death" most likely refers to the noisy
| ("high-entropy") backdrop of shitposts.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Image memes.
|
| I left proggit as soon as I discovered Hacker News
| because on proggit the people just can't accept that
| somebody somewhere might be motivated to program, at
| least partially, by the money. I went through a phase
| where Leon Trotsky was my hero but I still think of the
| people at proggit as "communists".
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _That birthday thing is pretty annoying though._
|
| It's nice that someone remembers, even if it's a PHP script.
| the_third_wave wrote:
| The birthday thing is a new years salutation thing for me -
| which is not my birthday - and not that annoying. Many
| administrators will wonder about that centenarian who
| frequents the forums, grandpa really kept with the times it
| seems. In other words I never feed these things real data,
| why should I?
|
| While I can see some of the annoyances with distributed
| forums I'm willing to live with these to keep the 'net
| decentralised.
|
| _Nae lairds, nae kings, we are free men!_
| jsemrau wrote:
| I never found that different logins for different sites had
| been a problem. Passwords saved in browser made this quite
| easy. Yes, across devices that is a bit hard, but there are
| ways around this as well.
| layer8 wrote:
| Forums are best for long-form long-term discussions, and they
| are the only suitable medium for that, apart from mailing lists
| (and formerly Usenet). The most essential feature for that,
| besides being able to comfortably display longer posts in
| context, is to be able to track which portions of which threads
| you have already read. The ideal is to be able to track read
| status by individual post, but only email and news (Usenet)
| clients offer that granularity (and it effectively requires
| keyboard navigation between posts).
|
| The lack of read status support is also why the HN interface is
| only suitable for short discussions.
|
| Instantaneous responses lead to chat-like communication, which
| is a whole different thing. There's Discord, Reddit, IRC and
| the like for that.
| haunter wrote:
| > able to track which portions of which threads you have
| already read
|
| reddit has this feature too for premium users. Works with
| every single thread regardless the amount of comments
| alexjplant wrote:
| The barrier to entry is a feature, not a bug. It discourages
| karma farming and low-quality responses that pervade a site
| like Reddit where a single account grants access to millions of
| communities on a whim.
|
| That being said I also find it infuriating when I click a
| thumbnail in a forum post and get asked to authenticate. The
| image is already visible so as far as I'm concerned it's
| nothing more than a grab for additional user signups.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >That being said I also find it infuriating when I click a
| thumbnail in a forum post and get asked to authenticate.
| Because the image is already visible it's nothing more than a
| grab for additional user signups.
|
| This is where I smash ctrl-alt-i and go get what I wanted
| their modals be damned!
| dceddia wrote:
| > nothing more than a grab for additional user signups.
|
| I think this is a holdover from the olden days when image
| hosting (and bandwidth) was expensive, hotlinking images was
| very much a faux pas, etc. Or maybe I just wasn't aware of
| "the game" back then, but I truly don't remember getting the
| feeling that forums were trying to juice signup numbers by
| holding images hostage. When I see that, I think "ugh, get
| with the times" more than "ugh, another site trying to get my
| email".
|
| That said, I fully agree that it is super frustrating, and I
| wish they'd turn it off.
|
| It's also meta-interesting how the _meaning_ of requiring a
| signup feels like it has changed. Again, could just be me,
| but I definitely see "signup required" these days as a grab
| for data (really, more of a benefit for the operator than the
| user), whereas in the golden days of forums, it didn't feel
| like there was spammy intent behind it (and it felt more like
| a true benefit for the user).
| wvenable wrote:
| > The barrier to entry is a feature, not a bug.
|
| Are you saying the people with enough time to jump through
| all these hoops are the high-quality people? That doesn't
| jive with my experience.
| alexjplant wrote:
| I'm saying that the people that are liable to create an
| octuply-nested low-effort comment referencing nothing more
| than a Thanos snap, Rick Astley, "yikes", "oof", etc.
| aren't likely to spend the three minutes required to create
| an account on a forum.
|
| Forums are more insular by nature and have a separate set
| of cultural problems, but consistently ultra-low-quality
| posts isn't one of them in my experience.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| They are a place to go when you want to learn something or get
| help with a problem. It's refreshing you get to hear something
| other than "Me too" and "I'm outraged!".
| ufmace wrote:
| Seems to me they're alive and well. The increasingly powerful
| censorship forces on places like Reddit has moved at least dozens
| of communities to create independent platforms for themselves
| with a variety of codebases. Yes, some of the oldest and worst-
| maintained ones have died, but many others are still as active as
| they ever were.
|
| There's also a thing where communities tend to only really
| migrate to other forum-types that work similarly. Between
| Reddit/HN style nested threads with voting, classic PHPBB style
| strictly chronological threads, and Slack/Discord live chat with
| many channels, good luck getting a significant number of people
| on one platform type to move to a community on a different
| platform type. A different software package that provides a
| matching platform type is a much easier sell.
| jorvi wrote:
| It still blows my mind that I got a multi-day suspension for
| calling out a pretty obvious Russian shill and calling him a
| moron. He's still posting, btw.
| gambiting wrote:
| I mean, it's not like smaller forums didn't have an issue
| with power hungry moderators who would ban you completely for
| stupidest things. The same people are now subreddit
| moderators. This isn't really a problem with reddit.
| ufmace wrote:
| That's not what I'm talking about though. Forum bans and
| subreddit bans are small change. What really makes people
| move platforms is when the Reddit admins nuke entire
| subreddits for dubious reasons, including breaking poorly
| defined rules. And admins deleting posts that follow the
| rules of their subreddit and completely banning accounts
| for various reasons.
| WaxProlix wrote:
| What sorts of subreddits have been nuked for dubious
| reasons? I know admins have been abusive of privilege in
| the past but it seems pretty small- to normal-sized-
| potatoes as forum admin ego tripping goes.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| A lot of people think /r/The_Donald was banned for
| dubious reasons.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| Yes, this isn't new either.
|
| The advice given to IRC admins was always "don't post in
| your own channels".
|
| There are plenty of irc channels and forums administrated
| even worse than reddit.
| noasaservice wrote:
| > This isn't really a problem with reddit.
|
| YES it is. Reddit empowers fascist types to run their
| fiefdoms, UNTIL the liliputian leaders start running *too
| many* users away.
|
| It's all about users per day engagement. If you harm that,
| the reddit admins show up and clean house. But in the
| interim, they'll _let_ you think you own that subreddit.
| gambiting wrote:
| And if you were a mod of a smaller forum that relied on
| ads to stay afloat, what exactly would happen if you
| started banning loads of people? It's the same thing,
| different name.
| ls15 wrote:
| I think OP was referring to a site-wide ban that only
| admins can issue.
| tcmart14 wrote:
| Yea, that is the part of the equation people forget. They
| see a ban and big platform and thing those things are only
| happening on big platforms owned by big corporate people in
| shiny offices. Nope, censorship can happen in small
| communities ran by Billy Bob down the street to. It comes
| down more to people. If someone wants an echo chamber, they
| will create an echo chamber regardless if it is a subreddit
| or a MyBB instance on a shared hosting plan.
| dylan604 wrote:
| It was much more fun to kick people out of a channel in IRC
| dvtrn wrote:
| I forget the name of it now, but back when I was still in
| irc regularly, I used a client that would hilariously
| play an explosion sound effect whenever someone got
| kicked.
|
| Made for amusing chuckles to hear it in the background
| whilst working and wondering "wonder who just got the
| hammer"
| spacemanmatt wrote:
| if you were a real chump you'd kickban them then teardr0p
| them
| TeeMassive wrote:
| On the other side of the medal, my native language is French
| and I got banned due to me being a "Russian operative"
| ls15 wrote:
| Because you are not supposed to attack other redditors.
| Reddit Content Policy - Rule 1 Remember the
| human. Reddit is a place for creating community and
| belonging, not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable
| groups of people. Everyone has a right to use Reddit free of
| harassment, bullying, and threats of violence. Communities
| and users that incite violence or that promote hate based on
| identity or vulnerability will be banned.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| This reads like you're allowed to attack people if they
| aren't part of a marginalized or vulnerable group of
| people.
| kodah wrote:
| The accepted definition of marginalized groups is
| actually rather large: https://www.mnpsych.org/index.php?
| option=com_dailyplanetblog...
|
| The wording in this rule is probably not great. There is
| a difference in promoting, "Be nice to everyone, but pay
| special attention where you may have a gap with
| marginalized folks experience" and how this rule reads.
| I'm not sure that there's a difference in outcomes
| though.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| The wording is terrible because it needs to justify
| terrible decisions.
|
| I got banned for posting about the plight of Copts in
| Egypt. That was Islamophobia somehow.
|
| Apparently caring about a Christian minority whose
| children are routinely kidnapped and raped by a Muslim
| majority is racism. And people wonder why groomer is the
| go to description of rainbow allies.
| kodah wrote:
| Depends on the context that it's brought up in. If you're
| just interjecting that fact, then yeah, I could see that
| being perceived as islamaphobia. That view is consistent,
| when a person from gender x is expressing their
| experience, and gender y comes along to add on that
| "gender x does it too" the outcome is similar, and vice
| versa. These are new-ish social standards, but I think
| reasonable if you're trying to create a space where
| _everyone_ has the opportunity to share while staying
| topic focused in a thread. I can also see why it 's
| potentially confusing for unknowing participants.
|
| Edit: just noticed your reply includes the term "rainbow
| allies" so I think we're done here.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| >That view is consistent, when a person from gender x is
| expressing their experience, and gender y comes along to
| add on that "gender x does it too" the outcome is
| similar, and vice versa.
|
| Is there anything more to say than "OK groomer" at this
| point?
|
| You're literally saying that we shouldn't talk about the
| pandemic of child rape in the Muslim world (and immigrant
| communities) because KKK.
|
| What's next? We can't talk about the gas chambers because
| of the Dresden fire bombings?
| kodah wrote:
| ehhh, that's not what I said, and I find it a bit odd
| that you immediately reached for calling me a "groomer".
| Let me try to be a little more clear:
|
| If you're showing up to a conversation that has no
| relation to the issue you described other than the fact
| that people are discussing Islam _and_ you interject that
| so as to throw a topic off track, yes I can understand
| why they see it that way.
|
| If you're showing up to a conversation regarding religion
| and child sexual exploitation and you mention that, then
| no I cannot understand why they see it that way.
|
| That's a, generally, new-ish social standard so I was
| trying to give you, and them, some benefit of the doubt,
| but I think at this point I kind of get why you were
| banned.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| It was a conversation about the treatment of refugees
| from Ukraine vs the Middle East.
|
| One is majority women and children, the other is men who
| engaged in such interesting behaviour as mass rapes to
| celebrate Christmas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E
| 2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_E...
|
| That you need to argue in bad faith to cover for
| pedophiles, groomers and rapists makes you no better than
| them. That you claim the moral high-ground while doing it
| makes you worse.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| I love how they changed the original first rule of Reddit:
|
| >Remember the human. When you communicate online, all you
| see is a computer screen. When talking to someone you might
| want to ask yourself "Would I say it to the person's face?"
| or "Would I get jumped if I said this to a buddy?"
|
| The new rule is there to allow two minutes hate against
| anyone who is against the current thing.
| [deleted]
| cowtools wrote:
| Being insulted is an "attack"?
| ls15 wrote:
| _Insult_ a synonym for _verbal attack_
| cowtools wrote:
| So it is unacceptable now to merely insult other users?
|
| You can act coy about the meaning of this, but the usage
| of such language is obvious. It is trying to compare a
| voluntary public exchange between anonymous internet
| users to acts of physical violence.
|
| The usage of that word there is essentially an
| underhanded attempt at justifying future censorship
| through its ambiguous meaning. When moderators agree with
| the "attacked" the message becomes a bannable offense,
| but when moderators agree with the "attacker" the message
| becomes "fair criticism".
| jfengel wrote:
| Yes. It is unacceptable now to merely insult other users,
| on their platform. As well as this one.
| cowtools wrote:
| Whose platform is it? It's the users that make the forum
| valuable. Anyone can administrate a web forum. The
| individuals and communities should decide what speech is
| acceptable for them, not some unaccountable bureaucrats.
|
| I think there is a time and place for insults and
| flamewars. Maybe not everywhere all the time, but what
| you are seeing on the web today is selective enforcement
| of "politeness" and "civility" rules to benefit whatever
| side of the "flamewar" that the moderators approve of.
|
| HN is a good forum insofar as the users think that admins
| enforce reasonable rules and users agree to abide by
| those rules and not evade bans. On HN, moderation is
| rather sophisticated and neutral. When that changes I'll
| leave.
| ls15 wrote:
| > Whose platform is it? It's the users that make the
| forum valuable.
|
| It's the user's community and content, but Reddit Inc's
| platform.
| balentio wrote:
| Unless that Redditor's name is Seth Rich, then you can get
| away with murder.
| datalopers wrote:
| Which subreddit? Each sub has different mods
| onionisafruit wrote:
| It sounds like you called somebody a moron for having a
| different POV from you.
| colpabar wrote:
| What was obvious about it? In my experience, a lot of people
| seem to think that anyone with a different opinion than their
| own must be a russian operative.
| tmaly wrote:
| I wish we would just resurrect usenet newsgroups. I like the
| idea of open protocols
| e40 wrote:
| Ah, yes, the place where trolls had free reign.
| comp.lang.lisp is a good example. Xah Lee and others. It was
| just too much, so I had to stop reading it.
|
| There were other newsgroups that had serious trolls, too.
| tux1968 wrote:
| Isn't it easier than ever to filter such comments yourself?
| If it isn't, it should be. That lets everyone speak, allow
| researches and other interested parties to look at the
| entire spectrum of discourse, and for each of us to
| maintain our focus and sanity as well.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| I had to unsubscribe from sci.electronics.design; the
| s**posting over politics out-massed the electronics design
| discussion 100:1 (and wasn't even entertaining, just the
| same 3 people blowing each other up).
| palebluedot wrote:
| That actually sounds pretty ideal. Add 3 people to your
| killfile, and you've removed most of the noise!
| slyall wrote:
| That was the problem. The regulars had killfiles to
| filter out the problem users and topics but somebody new
| just saw lots of junk (and if they posted the trolls
| would be the first to reply).
|
| Thus nobody new joined the groups and they stagnated.
|
| I quit Usenet 20 years ago and if I look at them now some
| of those same trolls are still around. Or they have
| migrated to facebook/twitter.
| snickerbockers wrote:
| xah lee might be a troll but at least he did a good job
| documenting emacs lisp on his website. i've learned more
| from him than i ever did from the official emacs manual (by
| which i mean <C-h r>).
| hkt wrote:
| Content moderation on usenet was and still is an unsolved
| problem. Fediverse stuff is a bit saner as it has more
| controls available, albeit is less forum-like
| hhh wrote:
| Yes, Discord and Reddit won.
| Findecanor wrote:
| I think forum platforms are still the best type of web site for
| communities that need to communicate in the long term, i.e. where
| information does not get stale quickly.
|
| For instance, in building-hobby/crafting forums, people post
| threads about their ongoing projects, which sometimes may take
| years to complete.
|
| In some collecting forums, there are threads that are over a
| decade old -- and still active, each with a wealth of information
| about one very specific subject. Disagreements about details
| about a specific type of item means that there is sometimes a lot
| of info that can't always be easily collected into a wiki.
|
| However, these forums are dependent on there being a good search
| function: When they breaks down, people do complain. It is also
| not suitable to automatically lock/cull old threads on these
| forums.
| a4isms wrote:
| The most useful "social media" sites for musicians are fairly
| vanilla forums. Heavily moderated, single well-understood
| focus, &c. &c.
|
| Example: https://talkbass.com is for people to talk about
| playing bass. And as you suggest for crafting, there are lots
| of old posts that are valuable today. For example, bowing
| (arco) technique on double bass.
| tester756 wrote:
| Indeed, forums are the way to go if you value deep, long
| discussions.
|
| If you want to write 2-3 comments and then thread dies, then
| Reddit/HM/Discord/FB Groups
| krapp wrote:
| Which makes it odd that HN, a forum ostensibly _all about_
| deep, intellectual discussions, has so many features that
| seem designed to suppress discourse at length, due to the
| fear of entropy leading to the Eternal September effect.
| alkonaut wrote:
| Forums are almost irreplaceable. You can't replace a product
| support forum or a sports team fan forum with something
| tangential but completely different like a discord, Facebook page
| or similar.
|
| Discourse is so great these days that it should be the default
| choice for anyone needing a forum, and luckily it seems it is
| too.
| 0wx wrote:
| If they didn't has discord/slack/reddit, it's not worth joining.
| Cyberdog wrote:
| Then why did you join HN?
| josteink wrote:
| > If they didn't has discord/slack/reddit, it's not worth
| joining.
|
| Different folks, different strokes I guess.
|
| If I see a "community" require Slack or Discord, it instantly
| gives me bad vibes, and I'm almost guaranteed not to join or
| visit.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Discord? I dread "subscribe to my discord". The average discord
| seems to have 780 rooms but only 3 people logged in, they are
| kinda like zombies except that the word "brains" has 5 letters
| too many for them to handle.
| joemi wrote:
| Not only that but there seems to be a MUCH worse signal-to-
| noise ratio in every discord I've ever seen (when compared to
| forums), due to the more chat-like nature of the platform.
| geekbird wrote:
| Seriously. One discord that I am unfortunately on has one
| person who just drivels on and on and on. But I can't mute
| him, and he does this even on channels that are the whole
| reason that I bother with it. Apparently there is little or
| no moderation possible, so everyone has to put up with his
| train of though word vomit.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Ironically the same thing used to be true for forums :)
|
| Someone really enthusiastically started a forum, added 420
| different sub-areas and sub-forums. All of which have a
| maximum of 1-10 posts. Most of them by the forum admin.
| freeflight wrote:
| The platforms are not dead, but the etiquette that mostly defined
| them is very much dead, very similar to the Eternal September,
| thanks to social media style engagement creeping its way into
| everything.
|
| Reddit is a good example for this; It has all the functionality
| to write well formatted posts, with no character limit, and easy
| insertion of links.
|
| But how many Reddit users actually make use of that functionality
| to that full extend? Only a minority, and for that they often get
| told to _" Cut down on the wall of text/gish gallop"_ because
| anything that's longer than a Tweet is nowadays considered
| something bad.
|
| A huge factor for that his how most people nowadays browse the
| web; On their phone, which does not lend itself well to read or
| write long-style text content, so most Reddit comments boil down
| to 1-2 sentence jokes and other random emotional garbage based on
| ad hominem because everything is about them dopamine kick
| upvotes.
| davesque wrote:
| The thing I really miss about traditional forums is the _lack_ of
| the up /down-voting feature. I think in a way it sometimes worked
| better when posts naturally bubbled to the top that simply had
| more active discussion. And if you _really_ cared about a topic
| being addressed, you could just _bump_ it. I think the basic
| difference with up /down-voting is that unpopular topics couldn't
| be squelched as easily. I also suspect that, when there was no
| visible "approval" score from the up/down-votes, people would
| tend to approach discussions with more of an open mind. Of
| course, it was probably the case that this sort of style worked
| much better with smaller scale communities. For example, the
| bumping behavior could easily be abused by bad actors if the
| community moderator didn't have enough bandwidth.
| benbristow wrote:
| I wouldn't have thought so. Plenty forums I visit on a
| daily/weekly basis.
|
| The football team I support have an unofficial fan forum which
| still runs on an antiquated (but maintained) Perl based e-Blah
| system and is very active.
|
| A few others include RailForums (https://railforums.co.uk/) which
| runs on more modern forum software and the Monzo Community
| (https://community.monzo.com/)
|
| Isn't Hacker News technically a forum too, just a bit more
| bespoke & for lack of better words, reddit-y?
| Jamie9912 wrote:
| I feel like Forums are dying because most forum platforms SUCK.
| Full of whitespace.
|
| Discourse must be the nicest forum platform out there because of
| single-page scrolling, like-feature, and solution feature
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Discourse is nice in some ways but it's also annoying for its
| general slowness and the way it breaks native browser features
| like Find in Page.
| joemi wrote:
| Not being able to use the native browser find in page in a
| Discourse forum is my single biggest complaint about my
| otherwise glowing experience with the platform. I wouldn't
| mind it as much if it at least tried to emulate the typical
| native find in page experience, but it doesn't work that way
| unfortunately.
| zerocrates wrote:
| I seem to recall that if you hit Ctrl-F again you get the
| regular native find-in-page, don't you?
|
| Or do you mean that because of the dynamic nature of the
| page, browser find doesn't really work especially well
| sometimes? That's probably not super-meaningfully different
| than the classic forum setup where what you're looking for
| may be on a different page altogether.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| Discourse is the least bad of all forum platforms I have found.
| Especially if you're going to be targeting people born this
| millennium.
| KajMagnus wrote:
| Aren't there lots of new forum software?
|
| Discourse, Flarum,
|
| and Lemmy, open source and reminds of HackerNews/Reddit:
| https://join-lemmy.org (it's quite alive over at GitHub :-)
| https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/graphs/contributors)
|
| And I'm developing another one, Talkyard, which reminds of
| HN/Reddit as well: https://www.talkyard.io (also:
| https://www.talkyard.io/-32/how-hacker-news-can-be-improved-...)
|
| It seems to me that companies often want forum software,
| sometimes internally, sometimes for customer support -- on their
| own domain, rather than over at Reddit.
|
| But for consumers, maybe, like others here write, it's mostly
| Reddit (for English speakers)?
| _the_inflator wrote:
| Legendary XenForo is still around as well.
| Cyberdog wrote:
| XenForo is IMO currently the best general-purpose forum
| system out there. Tons of features while still keeping the
| essence of traditional forums; paginated, non-threaded lists
| of posts which aren't powered by gigantic globs of JS doing a
| bunch of XHRs and DOM manipulations before you can read
| anything.
|
| Unfortunately it's a commercial product and the owners seem
| to be willing to revoke licenses if they get bothered enough
| about the existence of one of their licensees, as a certain
| New Zealand agricultural collective discovered last year.
|
| Flarum and Discourse are more "modern" but not proper
| successors to the traditional forum experience, in my
| opinion. They're doing something else and I don't like it.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| I've remember reading of a Talkyard as a replacement for
| Disqus. If this is the same one, have you pivoted in a
| different direction?
| atlgator wrote:
| I still enjoy a good forum. Forum posts feel more permanent than
| Slack/Discord/Teams where it's much more conversational. The
| latter feels more like IRC with more history retention and the
| ability to do voice and video.
| madrox wrote:
| The purpose forums served aren't dead, but the experience has
| continued to evolve. There's plenty of topic-based messaging
| products out there...enough of them that if you don't like one
| for a particular topic of your choice, there's almost definitely
| another. This feels like a "cars killed the horse-and-carriage"
| issue.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Forums that revolve around nerdy, male dominated hobby topics
| like DIY speakers or woodworking are doing well and are still one
| of the best ways to get competent help, or acquire deep domain
| knowledge longer term.
| mig39 wrote:
| I personally run 4 different Discourse forums. It's an amazing
| piece of software.
| tester756 wrote:
| Ehh
|
| I hate their layout, it doesn't remind me that "style" that all
| forums used to use
| geekbird wrote:
| Pro: Forums can have much more granular moderation than public
| places like reddit or discord. The making of a new login and
| having it accepted keeps a lot of the crap out.
|
| Con: PHPBB is a pain in the butt, but is one of the most popular
| forum softwares. It needs regular and constant maintenance and
| upgrades, and if it's a busy forum can be nearly a full time job
| to moderate and maintain.
|
| Slack has message sunset in free instances. Discord is hard to
| search and has a cruddy UI. Reddit is... Reddit, and it's
| moderation varies wildly. Twitter is like standing in front of a
| firehose, trying to drink just what you need.
| balentio wrote:
| I have to admit, though I was around and participated in forums
| during the time period specified, I now kinda hate them. The
| culture is different now than then, and really, that's what's
| "dead" now. A lot of little shits grew up with the internet, and
| I mostly don't like them.
| FpUser wrote:
| I maintain forum for my customers. I also know enough companies
| that host forums as well. Personally I am very much prefer forums
| to FB/Twitter/Whatever similar. Actually I liked when it used to
| be a newsgroups but that type is really dead.
| fariszr wrote:
| I think in general the best forum software is discourse, its very
| well made, fully open source, and is pretty popular.
|
| forem, which is a new commer is a lot lighter, so it might be
| useful, but I have never personally used it.
| INTPenis wrote:
| I wanted to search for the best e-scooter on the Swedish market
| and instead of doing site:reddit.com I did site:flashback.org and
| was satisfied with the results.
|
| Flashback.org is a standalone Swedish forum that has stuck in
| there for over 20 years. Warning that it can be rather NSFW.
|
| I wish I knew of more like it off hand but I know I've seen them,
| a lot of niche areas often have their own traditional forum. Like
| indie game devs, ham radio enthusiasts and so forth.
|
| I think there is a psychological aspect to the type of people who
| are not happy just discussing their interests in a facebook
| group. That extra step of being an independent forum tends to
| attract either older nerds, or those who don't find social media
| attractive.
|
| Therefore I wonder if there is a market in a forum platform,
| Forum as a Service. If you're using a forum platform, why not
| just use Facebook? Ethical reasons? I dunno, just speculating.
| mongol wrote:
| Flashback is quite interesting as forum. For non-Swedes - this
| is where you go when you want to know what is not spelled out
| explicitly in mainstream news. For example who was the famous
| celebrity that was arrested at some restaurant last weekend, or
| what are the details behind the shooting that media writes
| happened in suburb X last night.
|
| You need to sort through racism and mud to find the nuggets,
| but it is sometimes invaluable because you learn things that
| the mainstream news write weeks later, if ever. I wonder if
| every country has a version of this.
| DeWilde wrote:
| I just add "forum" to my query and it returns results from all
| kinds of forum.
| walterbell wrote:
| Recent thread with 100+ comments, _" Where have all the forums
| gone?"_, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31923377
| orionion wrote:
| >Recent thread with 100+ comments, "Where have all the forums
| gone?", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31923377
|
| I missed that first post in the dueling firehoses of life
| events and hackernews stories. Found a couple of forums to
| check out! Thanks!
| lazyjones wrote:
| From my perspective as someone who wrote and moderated his own
| NIH forum in 2000 - still in use today - the main reasons for the
| slow decline in usage both by users and publishers were:
|
| - the move to media-heavy content (images and video) and the
| problems integrating this seamlessly into discussion forums and
| moderating it (as a non Big Tech publisher)
|
| - the increased politicisation of online discussions and more
| complex legislation regarding "hate speech", privacy etc., all of
| which make hosting and moderation of user-content platforms
| unattractive for all but the biggest publishers, so most moved to
| FB groups or similar platforms to reduce the effort required to
| moderate.
|
| - non-threaded forums suck and threaded forums don't work well on
| mobile phones
|
| - I suspect, but don't claim to know, that the bad quality of
| popular forum software and consequently many forums getting
| "owned" regularly with all dire consequences for users played
| some role in this.
| rhabarba wrote:
| Forum platforms have either been dead for twenty years or they'll
| never die.
|
| Admittedly, the days of "everyone runs their own phpBB" are long
| gone (basically, Facebook killed them), but no single social
| network can replace structured, threaded discussion boards yet.
|
| Which is good.
| badrabbit wrote:
| Curious, do people not consider stackoverflow or Quora a forum
| platform? I wonder if posts like this are specifically talking
| about oldschool bbs systems like vbulletin.
| texaslonghorn5 wrote:
| Those are officially q&a and not really forum sites.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| very surprised to not see the word 'reddit' mentioned once in the
| piece (I already count 20 mentions here in this thread).
|
| It's huge, it's structurally probably the closest to the
| traditional forum experience and my suspicion is it's eaten up a
| lot of former communities. One inherent appeal to a platform like
| that is that you have one identity across all instances which is
| appealing for practical reasons (nobody wants to manage a dozen
| accounts any more), and there's interaction across forums.
|
| That last part is pretty important I think. Forums are great for
| the thing they deal with but they're also very silo-ish. With
| people nowadays preferring to exist in a lot of different
| communities that's often a disadvantage.
| deepdriver wrote:
| >One inherent appeal to a platform like that is that you have
| one identity across all instances which is appealing for
| practical reasons (nobody wants to manage a dozen accounts any
| more)
|
| I see this as a downside. Redditors often stalk others' post
| and comment histories for flamewar ammunition. This is the
| means by which politics ends up leaking into unrelated
| discussions and sub-communities. Putting all of a person's
| opinions on every possible subject on one publicly-viewable
| page decreases user privacy, and increases the likelihood of
| splintered and polarized communities.
| throwaway742 wrote:
| It has gotten even worse now. Moderators of different
| subreddits run bots that scan other subreddits and ban anyone
| who posts to them. My main account is banned from dozens of
| subreddits including default ones like r/news and r/pics just
| for posting in a now banned lockdown skepticism subreddit.
|
| I was actually trying to counter misinformation by posting
| there and I messaged the moderators with links to said posts
| proving as much. They responded that it didn't matter because
| I shouldn't be talking to "those people" anyways and then
| they permanently muted me (preventing me from ever contacting
| the moderators again).
|
| It's the worst with leftist subreddits. I got banned from a
| generic socialist subreddit for posting in a "tankie"
| subreddit. The "tankie" subreddit then banned me for posting
| in a "reactionary" subreddit. I don't even necessarily agree
| with any of those ideologies, but I enjoy debate and being
| exposed to different points of view. Apparently that is no
| longer allowed.
|
| It is frustrating that my 12 year old account is rapidly
| becoming unusable due to being banned from more and more
| subreddits and none of the bans are based on what I have
| posted, but rather who I am talking to.
| nop_slide wrote:
| Slap skateboard forum still going strong.
|
| https://www.slapmagazine.com/
| rosiesherry wrote:
| Thanks, I love finding living examples of old forums :)
| anewpersonality wrote:
| Anyone remember the Last Exit to Springfield forum?
|
| The early 2000s were the heyday for the most exquisitely designed
| Simpsons websites. I often wondered how they made them look so
| good.
| theden wrote:
| Is it one of these perhaps? http://www.lardlad.com/about.shtml
| anewpersonality wrote:
| Ha, "Paint Shop Pro"
| moneywoes wrote:
| Discord seems to have taken over
| seydor wrote:
| Discord is like a graveyard. People don't really talk after the
| first day. Maybe they should switch from chat to forums, at
| least let it be searchable through Google
| haunter wrote:
| > Discord is like a graveyard. People don't really talk after
| the first day.
|
| You are on the wrong servers
|
| But hey I had the same experience on "traditional" forums >
| make new post > wait for days > never ger a reply
|
| I like reddit and Discord much better because you get answers
| much much quicker
| powerhour wrote:
| It's always a little disappointing to see a forum start
| promoting a discord server. Splitting the community rarely
| works and results in a worse experience for both groups.
| jsemrau wrote:
| Personally, I hate Discord. I always miss where I got a
| notifcation for a post. The velocity of content is too high.
| It's hard to search for content.
| geekbird wrote:
| I hate discord for its threading, spaminess, and now its
| weirdness with multiple identities. It's also hard to sign up
| for without them deciding that you are a bot and arbitrarily
| banning you.
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