[HN Gopher] Real peer review has never been tried
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       Real peer review has never been tried
        
       Author : bilsbie
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2022-07-21 16:58 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.worksinprogress.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.worksinprogress.co)
        
       | Blahah wrote:
       | This article seems like it would be very interesting to me but
       | after dismissing three intrusive popups in my mobile browser I
       | stopped trying to read it.
       | 
       | Does anyone know of a mobile browser friendly way to read this
       | kind of site without being constantly bombarded? It's exhausting.
       | It seems like the sort of problem that would have been solved,
       | but my attempts to discover the solution have failed.
        
         | tommy5dollar wrote:
         | There's just a cookie prompt and then a newsletter sign-up a
         | little later? I don't think there's any constant bombardment,
         | if there is for you I'm interested to know more.
        
           | Blahah wrote:
           | I dismissed 3 overlays.
           | 
           | 1. cookies 2. email newsletter 3. cookies again
           | 
           | The constant bombardment was more in reference to the state
           | of the web generally. Popups and overlays that aren't a
           | result of an interaction I've chosen to make are exhausting
           | for me (and people with ADHD generally, and many others). I
           | don't go back to sites that have them, but would be happy to
           | read (and often pay for) the content if that wasn't the
           | context.
        
         | SCNP wrote:
         | The 'Kill Sticky' plugin for Firefox works pretty well for me
         | for most stuff. Most popups darken the screen, though, and it
         | doesn't handle that. It's very useful to me nonetheless. If you
         | don't use Firefox, you can go their site and copy/paste it to
         | your bookmarks.
        
         | roninghost wrote:
         | On android: fennec(firefox fork) + uBlockOrogin, NoScript,
         | PrivacyBadger and Decentraleyes.
         | 
         | I only had de reject all cookies prompt.
         | 
         | With firefox you can aldo use the reade mode, that extracts the
         | main taxt and displays it plainly.
        
       | Barrera wrote:
       | I was expecting the author to define "real peer review," but
       | didn't see that. The best approximation is probably gleaned from
       | the conclusion:
       | 
       | - integration of preprint servers and alt metrics
       | 
       | - tweaking incentives to review
       | 
       | - making comments on papers public
       | 
       | - use of software to detect fraud
       | 
       | - directing resources specifically to improving peer review
       | 
       | The bigger problem is that the author doesn't seem to actually
       | zero in on the problem peer review is supposed to solve today.
       | The author notes that peer review really got going in the 1970s
       | as a way to filter content flowing to overwhelmed editors. But
       | the emergence of the internet largely nullifies that problem.
       | Wide distribution of scientific information no longer requires
       | scientific publishers.
       | 
       | The real problem is the ways in which science funding, journals,
       | and peer review have become intertwined, with publishers playing
       | the role of bankers in this economy. This problem is cultural,
       | not technical. It's a historical relic and it increasingly does
       | not serve science well.
       | 
       | So, what is the actual problem that journal-supervised peer
       | review is supposed to solve in the age of the internet?
        
         | Pulcinella wrote:
         | I would not even say those things would count as "real peer
         | review." Peer review is supposed to involve replication.
         | Unfortunately that almost never happens these days.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | >Wide distribution of scientific information no longer requires
         | scientific publishers.
         | 
         | Wide and voluminous distribution of bad information requires
         | filters to extract the good, peer review has some form of
         | filtering functionality, although I wouldn't say it is great I
         | think it would probably be better than the filter that a
         | Facebook or Twitter of Science would provide (or just Facebook
         | or Twitter if you don't like the 'of science' locution)
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > It's a historical relic and it increasingly does not serve
         | science well.
         | 
         | It's also pretty devastating evidence that the world is not
         | going to improve in any sort of an organized way if the experts
         | that we would expect to lead the effort for a rational world
         | can't clean their own house. It's hard to trust academic
         | systems to design ways to improve society when the academic
         | system is built around an irrational base in journals.
         | 
         | An academic system that exhibits the same shitty array of
         | characteristics as every other corrupt status quo institution
         | doesn't give me a lot of hope for everything else.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | I don't think anyone expects academics to fix anything,
           | that's what we have politicians for, hah!
        
         | lacker wrote:
         | Nowadays, journals and peer review solve the problem of, people
         | need to make hiring decisions and funding decisions. But these
         | decisionmakers don't have enough technical expertise or time to
         | evaluate all the papers from all the applicants.
         | 
         | The decisionmakers do have enough time to learn which are the
         | most prestigious journals in the field. So, they can pick the
         | people with the most papers submitted to prestigious journals,
         | or at least use that to filter applicants down to a short list
         | for closer examination.
        
       | lacker wrote:
       | The problem is that looking at journal quality is the best quick
       | way to evaluate how good a paper is, when you aren't an expert on
       | the topic. And a lot of employment and funding decisions are made
       | by people who aren't experts.
       | 
       | Nowadays a journal provides essentially no distribution, but
       | there's no good alternative to journals as a "stamp of quality".
        
         | elashri wrote:
         | > And a lot of employment and funding decisions are made by
         | people who aren't experts.
         | 
         | This should be considered a flaw (bug in tech terms) not a
         | feature. why would you take decisions about funding something
         | or not if you are not an expert. At least you are not expert in
         | the same field but have knowledge and it is easier for you to
         | communicate and discuss the proposals. But getting someone who
         | never did a real scientific research and the last time he wrote
         | a scientific essay was when he was in college to determine
         | which research should be funded is wrong.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-21 23:01 UTC)