[HN Gopher] The inventor of ibuprofen tested the drug on his own...
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The inventor of ibuprofen tested the drug on his own hangover
Author : thrusong
Score : 139 points
Date : 2022-07-22 13:29 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| This reminds me of chloroform.
|
| Some scientists were hanging out "experimenting" with substances
| they made (presumably huffing things and getting high?) when they
| apparently realized chloroform could have medical applications.
|
| So, one of them used it on a patient a couple days later.
|
| They claimed they had discovered this property of chloroform
| independently, but it had been described as an anaesthetic a
| couple years earlier.
|
| Regardless, medicine in the 1800s was pretty fast and loose.
| banannaise wrote:
| Nitrous oxide was a recreational drug for 40 years before
| someone had the bright idea to use it during surgery.
| tylergetsay wrote:
| I love reading old medicine books, they include stuff like wine
| pairings for medications
| meepmorp wrote:
| These days, I'd use Reddit for that.
| nathancahill wrote:
| Same with old bird books, some of the originals have tasting
| notes for each of the birds they described.
| goldenkey wrote:
| Love me some red sparrow at the top o' the mornin'.
| lisper wrote:
| With a nice Cabernet
| nemo44x wrote:
| My grandfather was given a Guinness daily when he was in the
| hospital recovering from colon surgery in the 1960s. It was
| thought the iron in it was helpful.
| devin wrote:
| In VA hospitals it was not uncommon to give a patient N
| beers per day to match their typical consumption to avoid
| them going into alcohol withdrawal during their stay.
| adamauckland wrote:
| I don't know what VA is but in the UK they will attempt
| to maintain any addictions so the withdrawal does not
| affect the patient.
|
| For example, if you're a smoker I guess they give you
| nicotine patches or something.
| [deleted]
| the_only_law wrote:
| Now I'm just imaging seeing a hospital bill were they
| charged me $20 for a Guiness or something.
| quesera wrote:
| Depending on the bar and the city, a $20 Guinness is
| readily achievable today.
|
| Hospitals can do better!
|
| $270, negotiated down to $120 billed to insurance. You
| pay $15. Bill received in 6-9 months. Thank you for your
| business.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > You pay $15
|
| Only if you complain and ask for a detailed list.
| [deleted]
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| This reads like my Cigna explanation of benefits
| asciii wrote:
| Complimentary healthcare as it should be! Now I'm not
| sure if an Ibuprofen will be $70 or $500
| tylermac1 wrote:
| I found a "Backwoods Surgery and Medicine" book from 1910 at
| my grandparent's house. Half of the pain-related guidance
| involved cocaine in some form.
| mmastrac wrote:
| If people didn't enjoy it so much, it would probably be an
| impressively flexible medication.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| If we ever legalized it it would probably replace or
| augment caffeine in just about everything overnight.
| epicureanideal wrote:
| But aren't there probably long term harmful consequences
| of cocaine even in small doses?
| safeimp wrote:
| Have a source/pictures you can link to?
| tiborsaas wrote:
| > Regardless, medicine in the 1800s was pretty fast and loose.
|
| There's a good series about the early days of modern medicine:
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2937900/
| BitwiseFool wrote:
| Look up "hysteria" and how 1800's doctors thought about the
| womenfolk. And the prescribed treatment was pretty eyebrow
| raising as well.
| w0mbat wrote:
| "He never mentioned that he was the inventor and listened
| patiently when the person selling it would ask if he had taken it
| before."
|
| Oh my god he was a saint. If I were in his shoes, the question,
| "Have you taken Ibuprofen before?" would instantly lead to "Well
| yes, I invented it.".
| andsoitis wrote:
| "It was later renamed ibuprofen and is now one of the world's
| most popular nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) under
| the brand names of Brufen, Advil, Motrin, Nurofen and others. It
| is estimated that one package of the product is sold every three
| seconds in the United States."
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| So I thought it was unsafe to take for hangovers due to the risk
| of stomach bleeding... or is it just a matter of waiting long
| enough after you've stopped drinking?
| rr888 wrote:
| Its amazing how many people eat Ibuprofen like candy. My friend
| ended up with holes in her stomach, despite the warnings she
| thought there was little risk (even took Ibuprofen for stomach
| pain).
| worker_person wrote:
| She probably has an underlying condition that's not being
| addressed. Autoimmune is quite common, but could be lots of
| things. Diet changes are sometimes enough.
|
| Sometimes a massage gun and Bob and Brad youtube channel will
| fix muscle knots that are the real issues.
| dbrgn wrote:
| It's not a surprise if you look at the Ibuprofen packaging
| used in US supermarkets... There's a picture in the article
| of such a supermarket aisle. You can buy a 750- or even
| 1000-pack for a few dollars. WTF, how is it a good idea to
| sell painkillers in such quantities in supermarkets?
|
| If you sell drugs like candy people will eat it like candy.
| valarauko wrote:
| > If you sell drugs like candy people will eat it like
| candy.
|
| Even candy shouldn't be eaten like, well, candy.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Or, hear me out, they are less than pennies to produce and
| don't expire, and I can buy that one bottle for basically
| many years, for multiple people
| jmann99999 wrote:
| It also increases the risk of stroke and heart attack[0].
| After finding that out, I don't take it quite as liberally.
|
| [0]https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/fda-strengthens-
| warning-...
| Aeolun wrote:
| They really need to quantify this risk. Simply saying it
| 'increases the risk' is just scaremongering.
| samtho wrote:
| Yep, I think most would agree that traveling by car
| significantly increases the risk of being in a fatal car
| accident, yet this does not deter people on a daily
| basis.
|
| A lot of these "X increases the risk of Y" might be true
| on the whole, but there are so many variables that are
| not captured and can very drastically affect individual
| outcomes.
| humantorso wrote:
| It's not just ulcers, you can get serious liver damage from
| combining alcohol and ibuprofen:
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7921853/#:~:tex...
| .
| banannaise wrote:
| It is wildly superior to the other option (acetaminophen) which
| is both ineffective on hangovers and damaging to your liver
| which is already dealing with the alcohol. Alcoholics may have
| issues with the stomach lining that can be exacerbated by
| ibuprofen, but people who are just drinking don't typically
| have that problem.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| It's more a matter of not abusing it. Because it's relatively
| safe, many people take much, much more than the recommended
| dose.
| tullatulla wrote:
| Definitely a better choice than paracetamol, which is
| metabolized by the liver...
| dbrgn wrote:
| Yeah, don't take paracetamol if your liver is already busy
| getting rid of the alcohol. However, both alcohol and
| ibuprofen increase the risk of stomach bleeding, so don't
| overdo it with ibuprofen either. I'm sometimes shocked how
| nonchalantly people mix residual alcohol with drugs without
| checking side effects.
|
| PS: Paracetamol is a drug with pretty low side effects, but
| the dosage is really important. Even just doubling or
| tripling the dose can cause acute liver failure.
| Flashtoo wrote:
| Paracetamol and alcohol is actually not a dangerous
| combination at all as far as the liver is concerned. That
| is why there is no warning against combining the two in the
| information leaflet that comes with it. Paracetamol is not
| toxic, but its intermediate metabolite NAPQI is. The enzyme
| that converts paracetamol into NAPQI is the same that
| breaks down alcohol, and it has a higher affinity for
| alcohol meaning that it will be too busy working on the
| alcohol to turn the paracetamol into toxic NAPQI.
|
| Long-term alcohol abusers will develop more of this enzyme,
| so they are more likely to get liver damage from
| paracetamol though.
| [deleted]
| criddell wrote:
| How could the inventor of the drug have known at the time? That
| seems like something that would be discovered later.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| That's true, I was more surprised that the article didn't
| have even a passing mention of "hey don't do this".
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| Ok well I respect it but at the same time he's no Albert Hofmann
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Hofmann#Discovery_of_LS...
| "Three days later, on 19 April 1943, Hofmann intentionally
| ingested 250 micrograms of LSD."
| ilamont wrote:
| A not uncommon scenario. Here's how the first "upper endoscopy"
| was performed in the 1950s, after a GI fellow at the University
| of Michigan read a foundational paper about fiberoptic cable in
| _Nature_ :
|
| _Hirschowitz, like a lot of fellows and young researchers in
| science, first tested the device on himself in February 1957. He
| managed to control his own gag reflex, passed through his
| esophagus and looked around in his own stomach. He then scoped a
| patient indicated on the slide as patient #2. A most remarkable
| aspect of this discovery was that it was not supported by grants
| and was carried out by a GI fellow, and two physicists who worked
| very hard to create this incredible advance._
|
| The same talk also notes the Australian researcher who discovered
| the role of Helicobacter pylori in curing stomach ulcers tested
| the culture on himself:
|
| _He stated that his halitosis was so bad, that his wife told him
| that he had to sleep on the couch. After the infection was
| established he treated himself with the anti-Helicobacter therapy
| and completely recovered._
|
| https://blogs.harvard.edu/lamont/2020/01/30/advances-gastroe...
| Optimal_Persona wrote:
| Worth noting that the two great psychedelic alchemists - Albert
| Hofmann and Sasha Shulgin - conducted human tests with their
| own persons. It couldn't be otherwise..."Uh, Someone Who Isn't
| Me and their dog report that this stuff is pretty
| interesting..."
| samizdis wrote:
| Ah, "Sasha" aka "Alexander" Shulgin, who died in 2014. His
| obituary [1] is worth a read. The book _Phenethylamines I
| Have Known And Loved: A Chemical Love Story_ by Alexander and
| Ann Shulgin, his wife, documents their experiences with lots
| of drugs, and at various dosages, that he created. The book
| also contains instructions for synthesis etc. It 's still in
| print, and a version of the second part - dealing with the
| chemicals, but not the experiences - is freely available
| online at [2].
|
| EDITED to amend the above to clarify that link [2] contains
| only the second part of the book, and to add that the full
| book can be downloaded via [3]. FURTHER edited to add
| download links from Z-library [4].
|
| [1]
| https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/jun/03/alexander-
| sh...
|
| [2]
| https://erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml
|
| [3] https://libgen.is/search.php?req=PiHKAL%3A+A+Chemical+Lov
| e+S...
|
| [4]
| https://b-ok.cc/s/?q=%22PiHKAL%3A+A+Chemical+Love+Story%22
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| They also wrote an equivalent book on tryptamines. Same
| name and url except p -> t.
|
| Another note: IIRC, I believe it wasn't just Shulgin and
| his wife who tested the drugs, but also a small group of
| friends that he'd give samples.
|
| Cheers.
| samizdis wrote:
| > ... it wasn't just Shulgin and his wife who tested the
| drugs, but also a small group of friends ...
|
| Yes, indeed - also tested with friends, and some of those
| accounts are included in part one of the book. Thanks for
| the correction.
| affgrff2 wrote:
| Not to forget about the first heart catheterization done by
| Werner Forstsmann on himself and awarding him the Nobel prize.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Forssmann
| webmobdev wrote:
| Huh? Halitosis can also be caused by gastric issues? Thanks for
| the info! I thought it was purely a dental / oral issue and
| have been trying to tackle it like that. Perhaps I should pay a
| visit to a general physician.
| mikewave wrote:
| Yes, if you have H.Pylori it can cause all sorts of problems,
| acid reflux, bad breath, gastritis, ulcers, etc. I'm no
| doctor but I have been tested for this in the past; I think
| it was just a blood test, nothing invasive, and it's curable.
|
| Better to get it sorted sooner than later. That GP visit can
| also be a good time to ask about all sorts of other small
| issues, and a blood test is a good idea at least every year
| or two. Ask about hormone levels, iron, vitamins, everything;
| for you it's just a lab visit.
|
| I can't wait until it's possible to get these tests a few
| times a year and have all the values charted somewhere tied
| into the personal health ecosystem. Ironically, as someone
| interested in online privacy, I find the medical data the
| least concerning; I'm willing to let all of that go if it
| means I can get back some good answers or better healthcare.
| I can understand why some people aren't, of course, and they
| should always have the right to it; and it's good that this
| medical industry privacy situation is influencing other
| industries as well. But still! Imagine if some ML system with
| access to the data of a million people like me could show me
| exactly what I should stop eating, or exactly what supplement
| I need more of....
| samhw wrote:
| Yeah, a genius heroin addict friend of mine drew a molecular
| structure for a new opioid[0] on the back of a napkin and sent
| it off to a synthetic chemist in China to be synthesised. To my
| infinite horror I actually tried a dose of what came back, at
| the same time as he took his dose, and in the recommended
| (high!) dosage of what I think was a decent chunk of a gramme.
| Luckily it worked. I can well see how someone could have the
| confidence to try something as mild as ibuprofen.
|
| [0] Or pseudo-opioid, I'm not sure. He's a biologist and I'm
| not a natural scientist at all. All I recall is that it was a
| positive allosteric modulator of the mu opioid receptor, which,
| by and large, may as well be Greek to me.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Pseudo-opioid sounds right to me. Typically opioids are
| agonists at MOR, i.e activate the receptor on their own.
| Whereas a PAM binds to a separate binding site, and increases
| the effect of binding by the endogenous
| neurotransmitter(hence it positively modulates it).
|
| How the increased effect actually happens depends on the
| receptor and can get pretty complicated so I won't go into it
| since I'd have to google quite a bit.
| IYasha wrote:
| Oh, I remember the case. Nobody believed Barry Marshal and he
| had to use radical method of getting solid proof - infect and
| cure himself. I admire the man.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| One interesting non-obvious use for ibuprofen is that it'll
| relieve some sore throat symptoms. I discovered this when I took
| some for a headache while I had a cold some years back.
|
| Or maybe that was only non-obvious to me, but I sure wish
| somebody had told me about that 15-20 years earlier.
| standardUser wrote:
| It seems like pain killers work differently on different
| people. I wonder if there is data on this? For me, ibuprofen
| always helps with any type of pain or itching/irritation.
| beowulfey wrote:
| I use it for sunburn. Another less commonly associated ailment
| that it works great with.
| copperx wrote:
| You wanted to be told what, exactly? That an anti-inflammatory
| reduces inflammation?
| rvnx wrote:
| Isn't a bit of inflammation and fever actually healthy ? By
| cancelling them I would have guessed that you partially
| disable the immune reaction ?
| majkinetor wrote:
| Fever yes. You shouldnt generally cancel it (except it goes
| over 40.5). If you do, disease lasts longer and there is
| also evidence it helps with cance.
| bena wrote:
| From what I understand, inflammation is a side effect of
| the process.
| HPsquared wrote:
| I wonder about this, and for antihistamines as well.
| smileysteve wrote:
| This is a well documented warning of antihistamines; if
| you have an infection you should not use them.
|
| And you should definitely not continue use after 3 days
| with no improvementn in symptoms.
|
| You also should avoid using steroids when you have an
| infection (many antihistamines are steroids) (unless
| you're fighting the immune response). The risks increase
| more with fungal infections than bacterial or viral. (So
| much that it was a popular trope in House MD that if it
| was fungal or the infection was causing sepsis then the
| steroids would kill the patientl
| https://www.healthline.com/health-news/overuse-of-
| steroid-me...
| dontlaugh wrote:
| Rarely, if ever.
| roywiggins wrote:
| There's at least some hints that short term inflammation
| might be good, and not something you always want to
| suppress with ibuprofen etc.
|
| https://www.sciencealert.com/intriguing-study-suggests-
| infla...
| mauvehaus wrote:
| I mean, maybe it's just me, but I always figured a sore
| throat was more like an itchy skin rash than a stiff swollen
| knee. I'd only take ibuprofen for the swollen knee.
|
| IANAD, if that's not obvious by now: https://xkcd.com/2647/
| felideon wrote:
| Yes, my heuristic for ibuprofen vs. acetaminophen is whether
| there is swelling involved. Ibuprofen helped me a bit to manage
| a sore, swollen throat due to COVID. (But the corticoids I was
| prescribed are what really did the trick.)
|
| [Edit: IANAD]
| throwaway821909 wrote:
| I usually just take both, and even then, I sometimes wonder
| if they actually do anything or if it's just a mass scale
| placebo conspiracy.
| [deleted]
| 2143 wrote:
| Could that be because swelling is an inflammation and
| ibuprofen is an anti-inflammatory drug ("AID" part of
| "NSAID"), whereas acetaminophen is not an NSAID?
|
| [IANAD]
| felideon wrote:
| Of course, but as parent comment suggests, not everyone
| knows this.
| stared wrote:
| > While the drug had been tested for pain in clinical trials, no
| one had yet tried it on an alcohol-induced headache.
|
| The otherwise interesting article treats it as a discovery that
| headache is a type of pain. Sure, it should not be taken for
| granted which kinds of pain (both by symptoms and their etiology)
| can be alleviated with a given drug, but still.
| marban wrote:
| As European, it's mind-boggling when I see those 1,000 tab
| containers at Walgreens, given that I usually buy them in a pack
| of 12 and only take them very selectively as a last instance. You
| know, side-effects and stuff.
| peddling-brink wrote:
| If you're willing to share, what side effects do you get from
| ibuprofen? I have none, or at least the side effects are not
| noticeable in comparison to the pain I'd otherwise be in.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > what side effects do you get from ibuprofen
|
| What if I use it more than a two days straight there is
| something really wrong with me, so I should drop everything
| and start emergency recovery procedures, involving a visit to
| a doc or seek an emergency care
| zrail wrote:
| Ibuprofen or other NSAIDs taken in high enough concentrations
| for long enough can lead to peptic ulcers, and depending on
| the person those concentrations can be within the recommended
| dosing limits.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5478398/
| I_am_tiberius wrote:
| That concerns not only ibuprofen but it may cause heart or
| kidney issues. I think it can't hurt trying to only take it
| as a last resort.
| raverbashing wrote:
| The dose where those are an issue are way above the
| "maximum dose" noted on the OTC posology
| cjensen wrote:
| Doctors routinely tell patients to use way above the
| maximum OTC dose when instructing them on how to treat
| difficult muscle problems like back problems. (Please
| don't do that except under specific instruction).
| ugjka wrote:
| Not good for the liver, kidneys in the long term I guess (if
| you take it daily)
| JLCarveth wrote:
| You're thinking of paracetamol / acetaminophen. Ibuprofen
| has little effects on the liver / kidneys.
| majkinetor wrote:
| ibuprofen is ignored by the liver which says a lot about
| its safety.
| heydonovan wrote:
| Nah, Ibuprofen definitely affects the kidneys. It's on my
| mental list of medications never to try again. It always
| leaves me writhing in pain (thought it was my lower back
| that was on fire, turns out it was my kidneys).
| ugjka wrote:
| I'm sorry
| [deleted]
| bombcar wrote:
| Apparently there are people who will add Tylenol or
| ibuprofen or aspirin to their daily cocktail of pills even
| if they don't feel bad at all. Amazes me.
| mattkrause wrote:
| Low doses of asprin are (were?) sometimes used as
| prophylactic treatment for people at high risk of stroke
| or heart disease.
|
| It's not a panacea--and more recent data suggests that
| it's probably overused--but the idea itself isn't
| bonkers.
| squarefoot wrote:
| (European here as well, so I'm referring to way lower dosages
| compared for example to the US)
|
| I don't have any 100% proof of it being caused by
| painkillers, however years ago I took Ibuprofen based
| painkillers on unusual higher dosage for some time to fight
| against pretty nasty back pains (driving exclusively bikes
| for 38 years comes at a price). After some time I developed
| some strong anemia, which scared me a lot for having a bad
| family history (some cancer cases, and my father died of
| leukemia); by my doctor's advice I did repeated blood tests
| and stopped taking painkillers for a while (and later never
| get again to that dosage) while starting a cure with iron and
| folate. Red blood cells took a while to fully recover but
| ultimately they did.
|
| About backpains, I later learned with immense relief that in
| many cases postural training will lead to results that
| painkiller can only dream of: I still have my back problems,
| and after a motorcycle accident also a stabilized column with
| screws et al, but no need for painkillers: I keep them for
| headaches or other things, but my back has never been so
| damaged and so pain free (touches various things...:).
| mrtnmcc wrote:
| full body hives (about 2% of population has allergy to
| ibuprofen)
| mmmpop wrote:
| I've given myself a peptic ulcer while awaiting a root canal.
| I had odd eating habits (especially in hot periods) and also
| like beers... bad combo with handfuls of Advil.
| manquer wrote:
| I was surprised like you too, but later I realized that people
| were popping pills at that rate because it is used as
| substitute for primary care which is both expensive and
| sometimes not easy to schedule, unless it ER getting an
| appointment can take a lot of time here .
|
| Took me a week to a see a dentist, I popped more pills than
| last 10 years to keep going for a week before I could get
| prescriptions that actually solved the problem.
| jollybean wrote:
| No, really, it's safe, and it's a good painkiller and that's
| it.
|
| The Europeans have it wrong on this one.
|
| There's no reason not to have regular dose variations at the
| drug store.
| guenthert wrote:
| "Ibuprofen became an effective treatment for the disease, but it
| was no cure." Perfect, says the pharmacist.
| overkill28 wrote:
| Does ibuprofen actually help with alcohol induced headaches? I've
| found the only things that can cure a hangover are time or more
| alcohol.
| krnlpnc wrote:
| Works well for me although the best remedy I've found is a few
| rounds of sparkling water at the end of the night
| galangalalgol wrote:
| works for me too, but vitamin c powder (emergenC or whatever)
| seems like magic to prevent one before I go to sleep, along
| with lots of water. I'd love to know why that works so well.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Next time try lots of water, without adding the vitamin C.
| I got absolutely blasted at my brother's wedding a few
| months ago, blasted as in I lost an entire hour of dancing
| and attempting to win an auction of whiskey that I don't
| even drink. My parents and family were astonished when I
| woke up the next morning at like 10am, very very groggy but
| with no headache and actively shoveling greasy hotel
| breakfast into my stomach to prepare for a 6 hour drive
| home.
|
| My secret? I was far too drunk to sleep when we got to the
| hotel so I stayed up drinking about 100oz of water over the
| course of an hour or so, while sobering up. Just drink
| water, you probably don't need the vitamin C, or if you
| somehow messed up your "electrolytes" or something, just
| sip gatorade.
|
| Most of a hangover is dehydration, or not having enough
| excess water in your blood to easily expel the literal
| vinegar the metabolism of ethanol creates.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| Yeah massive amounts of water os of course the standard.
| But the vitaminc/d powder really does do something extra.
| Its consistent and after a friend told us about it both
| my wife and I have had success with it after making a
| dilly mistake like have drinks on an empty stomach or not
| paying attention to the abv on a bottle. I have no
| hypothesis why it might work, but I'm absolutely
| convinced it does so, and well, vs water chugging. Its
| mainly just the headache you skip. It doesn't replace
| hydration or speed up metabolism of the alcohol. I think
| it may speed up conversion of alcohol metabolism
| byproducts, but I don't know why that would be the case.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_metabo
| lism#Acetaldehyd... it seems the ascorbic acid MAY help
| neutralizing free radicals produced when Acetaldehyde
| breaks down, though that paragraph seems to be in the
| context of a pregnant person metabolizing alcohol for
| some reason.
| stagger87 wrote:
| Are you speculating that the carbonation is helping in some
| way? Otherwise, hydrating to counter dehydration sounds like
| a reasonable approach.
| samatman wrote:
| I think that carbonation actually helps, yes.
|
| It has a positive affect on an irritated stomach lining,
| I've found. This is easy for me to explain when it's
| slime/phlegm doing it, as the bubbles helping enzymes and
| stomach acid dissolve the goo.
|
| I'm seldom enough drunk to have a good sample, but liquor
| isn't good for the stomach, and I've cautiously drunk a
| pint of sparkling water with complete success, while
| knowing that still water would have come back up within
| five minutes.
|
| Maybe the stimulation of the bubbles promotes the lining to
| exude what it's supposed to, which alcohol strips away? No
| idea but I do think it materially helps.
| krnlpnc wrote:
| Kind of... For me a cold glass of sparking mineral water
| tastes a lot better than tap, so I'm far more likely to
| drink it.
|
| Plus mineral water does contain far more electrolytes than
| tap which I think has a non-zero effect
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Perhaps it is the fizzy feeling of the drink that makes it
| more palatable when you are drunk and your throat is dry
| after a night of partying.
| phreenet wrote:
| I have not had success with Ibuprofen and hangovers. My goto is
| water and 3x Aspirin.
| otikik wrote:
| Lots of water _before going to bed_ (or ideally, combined with
| the alcohol intake, 2 glasses of water for every glass of
| alcoholic drink) is the best preventive measure I know. I guess
| drinking afterwards might also help.
| antonymy wrote:
| This is the method that works for me. If I go heavy on water
| between alcoholic drinks I can avoid having a hangover
| entirely, or at least reduce it to a very mild headache that
| Ibuprofen can deal with.
|
| The only downside is you will have to use the bathroom a lot.
| squarefoot wrote:
| Can confirm that. If you're drunk, drink as much water as you
| can, expel it and drink again; this will help a lot to soften
| and shorten the hangover, effectively reducing the amount of
| alcohol in the blood.
| claudiawerner wrote:
| I don't know how well they work (if at all) but there's quite
| a market for 'hangover cure' drinks in Japan[0], and I've
| heard of a tradition of drinking citrusy supplements or
| anything high in Vitamin C in Japan. It always sounded off to
| me, but I suppose it would help with mineral depletion.
|
| [0] https://jobsinjapan.com/working-in-japan/japans-famous-
| anti-...
| samatman wrote:
| I'm a believer. I don't care if it's superstition, I'll
| take a gram of C at the drop of a hat. I love the Japanese
| hangover drinks, E-Mergen-C is not quite as tasty but 30 of
| them take up the volume of 3 bottled C drinks, for the
| small kind.
|
| Works better before, but will improve disposition the
| morning of as well.
| xxpor wrote:
| I wonder if they work because they make it easier to
| consume a lot of water, just due to the taste
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| Also: salty/"consistent" food. Think burger/ramen. Prevents
| hangover 100% of the time.
| bendbro wrote:
| I've noticed this as well. I feel like staying awake very
| late, eating and drinking as I sober a little before going to
| sleep drunk helps too
| sparker72678 wrote:
| Same. Though, the article says he took, "a handful" which is a
| bit more than I'm willing throw down at once.
| matwood wrote:
| IDK what a handful means in this case, but 800mg will knock
| out any headache I have. Obviously I don't take it very
| often.
| jermaustin1 wrote:
| 800mg is prescription strength, granted I usually just take
| 2 500mg and a cup of coffee any time I have a headache. IDK
| if it is the caffeine or the ibuprofen, but any headache
| will usually be gone within 30 minutes.
| matwood wrote:
| > 800mg is prescription strength
|
| Makes sense that my dr/nurse friends are the ones that
| told me to do 800mg when I use it (and it worked much
| better). I typically don't take painkillers, and
| ibuprofen isn't something to be taken everyday anyway.
| josefresco wrote:
| My wife's doctor said the optimal does for an average
| adult is 600 mg (typically 3 pills) - he warned that
| going below that won't product the same results. When
| it's been prescribed, it's always 800 mg.
| adamauckland wrote:
| Ibuprofen has a really high LD50, at higher dosages it
| becomes anti-inflammatory.
| smileysteve wrote:
| Yes, nsaids thin your blood and vadodilate dehydrated blood
| vessels in your head, this may also help reduce acetate toxins.
|
| Caffeine as a mild stimulant then increases blood pressure and
| gives some adrenal pain relief (and was combined in Excedrin)
|
| Alcohol (hair of the dog) also vasodilates and provides some
| pain relief.
|
| Hydration is ultimately important.
|
| Acetaminophen (Tylenol) should not be taken as it increases
| your liver load.
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
| muststopmyths wrote:
| I've found it pretty effective. Usually I'll wake up with a
| headache and pop 400mg advil with a lot of water and that's
| good enough.
|
| Other times when the headache starts in the gap between
| drinking and sleeping I find that the same dosage works there
| too.
|
| I'm only talking 2-3 drinks here. I don't drink often and am a
| lightweight:)
| jmrm wrote:
| An acquaintance who likes to party a lot, and have a job
| related to medicine, have small bottles of some B vitamins to
| inject themselves when they are pretty bad. AFAIK those are the
| medicine ER gives you when you have a really bad alcohol
| intoxication, so I believe this works.
| banannaise wrote:
| Yes. In my experience, they don't _fix_ the headaches, but they
| certainly take the edge off in a way other painkillers don 't.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > I've found the only things that can cure a hangover are time
| or more alcohol.
|
| Hangovers are due to the aldehydes accumulated IIRC when your
| body clearance process for alcohol is overrun.
|
| NAC before alcohol or even better, Emoxypine prevents that.
| Other things might work (vitamin C, glycine) but are less
| efficient.
|
| Emoxypine is really a miracle cure!
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I've never heard of NAC or Emoxypine - but here's what
| Wikipedia says about the latter:
|
| "In Russia, emoxypine has a wide range of applications in
| medical practice. It purportedly exercises anxiolytic,[4][5]
| anti-stress, anti-alcohol, anticonvulsant, nootropic,
| neuroprotective and anti-inflammatory action.[citation
| needed] Emoxypine presumably improves cerebral blood
| circulation, inhibits thrombocyte aggregation, lowers
| cholesterol levels, has cardioprotective and
| antiatherosclerotic action."
| aulin wrote:
| Lots of water to rehydrate and fresh ginger for the nausea.
| Ibuprofen only works for the headache, you still need to fix
| the rest.
| havblue wrote:
| It definitely helps with the associated upper back pain that
| gets amplified when I indulge too much...
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > I've found the only things that can cure a hangover are time
| or more alcohol.
|
| It's called the hair of the dog (that bit you):
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair_of_the_dog
| rejectfinite wrote:
| Combined paracetamol and ibuprofen is king Ive found and they
| both work well together and dont seem dangerous. If you follow
| the dosage. Combine with Caffeine too.
|
| >It's safe to take ibuprofen with paracetamol or codeine.
|
| https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/ibuprofen-for-adults/taking-ibu...
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| For those who don't know, paracetamol is also known as
| acetaminophen.
|
| Goody's is my go-to for headaches and minor aches and pains.
| It's sold in powder packs here in the US with some optional
| flavoring added and contains acetaminophen, aspirin, and
| caffeine.
| oynqr wrote:
| Paracetamol is also a leader in deadly prescription drug
| overdoses.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > Paracetamol poisoning is the foremost cause of acute
| liver failure in the Western world, and accounts for most
| drug overdoses in the United States, the United Kingdom,
| Australia, and New Zealand.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol
|
| > Analysis of national mortality files shows about 450
| deaths occur each year from acetaminophen-associated
| overdoses; 100 of these are unintentional.
|
| https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/09/11/tylenol-far-most-
| danger...
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Because it affects the liver thus large quantities are
| dangerous and having it with alcohol is dangerous.
|
| This is why ibuprofen is so miraculous; you can take it
| with alcohol lol.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| This is because of Percocet and Tramadol that combine
| opiates and paracetamol.
|
| Paracetamol is easy to overdose on because the opiate is
| lower in those.
|
| paracetamol is perscription free.
| Galaxity wrote:
| Tramadol is the opiate itself, it does not have
| paracetamol. There are other brand pills that contain
| both.
|
| Paracetamol does not contain an opiate. It is a different
| substance from opiates. It is, however, dangerous to the
| liver in large amounts.
| xxpor wrote:
| I believe that's what Excedrin is as well (as a tablet of
| course)
| opan wrote:
| Almost sounds like a knockoff ECA stack.
| BuildTheRobots wrote:
| Paracetamol and Ibuprofen is a magic mix - and it's safe to
| throw Codeine on top as well.
|
| From personal experience I've never been wowed by Paracetamol
| in tablet form, however after experiencing it in liquid form
| via IV - wow; it's a surprisingly capable analgesic.
|
| I'd also point out that whilst Ibuprofen and other NAISDs can
| be great for short term inflammation, it can lead to worst
| long-term healing/outcomes. Depending on how you've damaged
| yourself (I shattered both my heels) it might actually be more
| beneficial long term _not_ to use it.
| worker_person wrote:
| Fun fact, if you're having a lot of headaches and take pain
| killers daily you can start suffering rebound headaches.
|
| Basically a highly painful headache caused by the pain killers.
| This creates a nasty feedback loop.
|
| If your suffering head pain try and rotate pain killers and
| have days of no pain killers.
|
| Of course you should be trying to find out the reasons for the
| pain so you can stop taking them.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| I never would take painkillers daily unless prescribed! That
| is dangerous and I know it. Why would you think/do this?
| BoorishBears wrote:
| > Combined paracetamol and ibuprofen is king Ive found and
| they both work well together and dont seem dangerous. If
| you follow the dosage. Combine with Caffeine too.
|
| The way this was worded didn't make it unreasonable to
| assume you often take painkillers...
| rejectfinite wrote:
| Well, I don't think so and I don't? _So...
| swores wrote:
| You're being very defensive as if the person who started
| their comment with "fun fact" had instead started it with
| "you're an idiot doing wrong things" - nobody was
| criticising you, nor claiming they knew your frequency of
| use. They were sharing useful information on a public
| forum that, if not useful to you, would still be useful
| to other people who read your first comment.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| It's fine that you don't think so, but that's how it was
| worded.
|
| "Casual" painkiller users tend to take what's on hand and
| aren't trying to build three medication stacks with
| caffeine.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| When I am in pain I want it to go away. This is what I
| found works best over the years. Last time I used it
| getting Covid vaccine after effects fever. So awhile ago.
| filoleg wrote:
| Because, i believe, the parent comment included ibuprofen
| into their definition of painkillers. And there are tons of
| people who take ibuprofen daily.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| >And there are tons of people who take ibuprofen daily.
|
| Not me.
| filoleg wrote:
| Just because you yourself might be physically fit, that
| doesn't mean we don't have an obesity epidemic in NA.
| Apply this same principle to my earlier statement about
| ibuprofen.
| ehPReth wrote:
| Then the comment is for others, not you.
| adamauckland wrote:
| How dangerous though? As someone who has persistent back
| pain, Ibuprofen seems a lot safer than Codamol
| BuildTheRobots wrote:
| Paracetamol and Ibuprofen is a magic mix - and it's safe to
| throw Codeine on top as well if the pain warrants it.
|
| From personal experience I've never been wowed by Paracetamol
| in tablet form, however after experiencing it in liquid form
| via IV - wow; it's a surprisingly capable analgesic.
|
| I'd also point out that whilst Ibuprofen and other NAISDs can
| be great for short term inflammation, it can lead to worst
| long-term healing/outcomes. Depending on how you've damaged
| yourself (I shattered both my heels) it might actually be more
| beneficial long term _not_ to use it. Worth researching if you
| manage to do something serious (though I'd suggest avoiding the
| damage in the first place).
|
| edit: spelling
| samtho wrote:
| > From personal experience I've never been wowed by
| Paracetamol in tablet form, however after experiencing it in
| liquid form via IV - wow; it's a surprisingly capable
| analgesic.
|
| Part of this is because the oral route is very damaging to
| some types of substances, I.e. molocules are getting digested
| before they even reach the liver - where
| paracetamol/acetaminophen is metabolized and becomes
| bioavailable.
|
| If I recall correctly, the maximum dosage on the bottle is
| typically the maximum under the assumption that all of the
| medicine hits the liver. Because everyone's gut biomes and
| digestive enzymes are slightly different, everyone has a
| different amount that actually reaches the liver. Taking it
| IV skips the harsh environment of the stomach and doctors can
| give you the maximum safe dose which ends up being way more
| than you can get via the oral route at the same level.
|
| > I'd also point out that whilst Ibuprofen and other NAISDs
| can be great for short term inflammation, it can lead to
| worst long-term healing/outcomes
|
| I wish this was more studied because, while this is true,
| there is way more nuance that they've been able to capture.
| My partner is allergic to paracetamol/acetaminophen and
| stronger pain relievers get compounded with that so she has
| to get it compounded with ibuprofen. After a surgery she had
| however, there were few options because her surgeon did not
| want her to take any kind of blood thinners. Luckily, she is
| sensitive to the numbing effects of ibuprofen so she takes a
| low dose (200-400mg vs 800-1200mg) and he gave her the clear
| to have up to 400mg every 6 hours.
|
| There is also the danger of ulcers developing because it
| affects the stomach pH drastically, but can be mitigated with
| large quantities of water or food to help buffer it.
| wwalexander wrote:
| I get migraines (not as frequently as when I was young, but
| still quite often) and caffeine is key--my pediatrician told my
| mom to get me a Coke if I was coming on with a migraine, which
| I was of course thrilled about as a kid.
|
| I also find that combined ibuprofen and acetaminophen has the
| best results, though if I had to choose one for a desert island
| I'd take Advil Liqui-Gels since they don't hurt my stomach if I
| haven't eaten/am unable to eat.
| nick_ wrote:
| Yep, that's the NSAID-acetaminophen-caffeine trifecta that
| Excedrin uses (and it's generic counterparts, of course).
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Last time I had COVID the doctor literally recommended
| ibuprofen+ paracetamol and caffeine together lol. Not gonna
| lie, definitely a good cocktail.
| beefman wrote:
| Ibuprofen is a true miracle drug. The team that discovered it
| routinely tested candidates on themselves. This wasn't uncommon
| in medicinal chemistry. My dad and his colleagues did it at Merck
| in the '70s. In one case, he and his lab partner took a candidate
| appetite suppressant (serotonergic) and went out for Chinese.
| They ate like kings and concluded it didn't work.
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| I wonder if the decline of this style of testing is one reason
| the rate of progress is lower today.
| beefman wrote:
| Lots of great stuff in the pipeline right now, including for
| obesity.
|
| The difficulty of progress depends on what you try to treat.
| Otherwise healthy people get pain and swelling. Otherwise
| healthy people get HIV (my dad is on the patent for one of
| the world's best-selling HIV drugs). If you concentrate
| research on afflictions of the dying, progress is harder.
| edmundsauto wrote:
| Possibly, also possible this type of testing worked great
| when the low hanging fruit was available. When there was
| easier discovery of miracle molecules.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| You have nothing to support your claim of "rate of progress"
| and drug safety is significantly improved from fifty years
| ago when drugs would turn out to have mutagenic effects on
| unborn kids and such.
| FooHentai wrote:
| It's almost certainly a factor, in the same way that
| improvements in safety standards and stronger adherence to
| them have slowed progress and increased cost in construction
| (and many other fields).
|
| I don't think it's controversial to state that. Where it gets
| controversial is in what value judgements you place on it,
| because to a large extent it boils down to 'how much human
| life are you willing to risk for how much progress?'.
|
| Less of an issue if it's an individual choosing freely to
| risk their own neck, but hard to distance even that from
| whatever safety culture and norms surround them. Perhaps less
| people take these risks today because it's no longer the norm
| in their field.
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| Of course if it goes really bad(fatal or stroke or
| something), you just lost years of expensive science
| education just to test a drug that's not gonna work. Sure
| it's faster if you get it right, but the if you do the math
| on doing this as the standard method it would quickly be
| fae too costly to society.
|
| At least that's my take on why this is perhaps not the most
| ideal methodology in terms of opportunity cost.
| HPsquared wrote:
| Definitely shouldn't be considered "standard", the value
| judgement would be left to the inventor who decides
| whether or not to take it.
| mmsimanga wrote:
| This. I live in Africa where I estimate we have at a
| minimum a few decades to go to catch up with the world when
| it comes to everyone having a decent house to live in.
| Trouble is in the towns some of the modern construction
| rules have slowed things down considerably. No I am not
| advocating for having no rules but I contend that when the
| more advanced countries started building hundreds of years
| ago they didn't have to contend with modern building laws
| we are having to contend with.
|
| What is interesting is that there are no building codes to
| conform to in the village. So you can build as you please.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| New construction slowing down isn't too much of a problem
| if the construction lasts longer and costs less to
| maintain.
| mmsimanga wrote:
| When you a few hundred years behind most of the world it
| is a problem. I don't know of any building in sub Saharan
| Africa that predates the colonialists. I know Egypt and
| North Africa do have old buildings but not where I am
| from.
|
| Result is overcrowding and people living in shacks.
| Bilal_io wrote:
| That's one way to get a free lunch paid by the company.
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