[HN Gopher] Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom to introduce persisten...
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       Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom to introduce persistent user tracking
        
       Author : mmazzarolo
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2022-07-23 21:07 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.simpleanalytics.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.simpleanalytics.com)
        
       | account-5 wrote:
       | Can someone ELI5 how these operaters can track my websites if I'm
       | using HTTPS and DoH? Sure they might see handshakes etc but what
       | else can they see?
        
         | aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
         | They can't.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | Not really. Based on the picture on the site[1], I can think
           | of multiple ways of how that would work:
           | 
           | 1. The site that wants visitor information makes a CORS/third
           | party request to
           | https://vodafone.example/api/GetSubscriberInfo, which then
           | fetches the associated account information and returns it to
           | the site
           | 
           | 2. The site notes the IP + port + timestamp that was used for
           | the HTTP connection, and then asks vodafone for the
           | information.
           | 
           | [1] https://assets.simpleanalytics.com/blog/2022-Trustpid/vod
           | afo...
        
         | fulafel wrote:
         | Traffic analysis + IP addresses would be one way.
         | 
         | (But if the visited site is colluding with VF, your traffic is
         | no longer protected from VF observation anyway)
        
         | tsimionescu wrote:
         | The site operator asks Vodafone "what is the unique account ID
         | for the machine accessing my site right now from
         | 17.56.2.43:3452?", and Vodafone gives them an account ID. They
         | can then use that account ID to correlate to previous
         | interactions you had with their site, even if they were coming
         | from different IPs.
         | 
         | Https and DoH don't protect you in any way from the site
         | operator wanting to serve you ads, and Vodafone will always
         | know what IP:port they assigned you personally (well, your
         | phone).
         | 
         | Tor, VPN and proxy services can protect from this, since they
         | decouple your original request from what the server receives.
         | Of course, the latter two can also sell your information
         | instead of Vodafone.
        
       | politician wrote:
       | How is this compliant with the GDPR? Is the GDPR a complete joke?
        
         | formerkrogemp wrote:
         | These companies operate in multiple countries. So, at a guess,
         | they can implement this in areas where GDPR isn't a concern.
        
         | mildmotive wrote:
         | I think once you sign a contract with one of these providers
         | you're basically signing away the rights to your personal
         | information. GDPR wont protect you from state actors trying to
         | spy on the people, but it will allow you to ask a company to
         | delete all personal information about you. The problem is that
         | doing so will effectively end the service for you. If all
         | mobile carriers start enforcing predatory contracts then I
         | don't know if GDPR will be very effective here.
         | 
         | Something additional will be required to stop this tracking. As
         | it stands right now some European countries have started
         | forcing ISPs to save logs, that's actually worse. We must make
         | sure that it's well understood that the public does not want
         | these policies. The public must also deny any party their vote
         | if fixing this is not in their agenda. Politicians are getting
         | away with slowly eroding our freedoms without many people
         | noticing or speaking about it, that has to change. We need to
         | let them know that they have zero support from us if they
         | decide to continue in this trajectory.
        
       | dane-pgp wrote:
       | I wonder if Deutsche Telekom will integrate these persistent user
       | IDs with the "global COVID vaccine verification app" they are
       | building for the WHO:
       | 
       | https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | Ah yes, the good old "antivaxer conspiracy theory confirmed as
         | upcomming future" kind of twist.
         | 
         | I wonder what they'll make up next after monkeypox.
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | From the continent that brought you the last one million privacy
       | cookie popups: ISP-level tracking
        
       | unnecessaryuser wrote:
        
         | unnecessaryuser wrote:
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | This 100% means I'm going to be running a persistent VPN on my
       | phone at all times. Great.
        
       | moehm wrote:
       | The article mentions they are injecting a http header, so
       | shouldn't https be enough to prevent tampering?
        
         | turtleman1338 wrote:
         | Yes, you can not just inject a http header when using SSL
         | without breaking it.
        
         | tsimionescu wrote:
         | That's only about how Verizon did it back in the day. They
         | don't explain how Vodafone and DT are planning to technically
         | achieve it, but it could simply be related to IP or similar
         | lower level protocol addresses from 4/5G. As network operators,
         | they have access to the Account:IP mapping, they don't
         | necessarily need to inject anything special in the packets.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >The article mentions they are injecting a http header
         | 
         | It does, but if you read carefully you'll see there's no source
         | saying that's how that's being implemented. It's all
         | speculation on the author's part. In fact, one of the sources
         | linked (wired.com) says the opposite, claiming that it's "based
         | on a user's IP address", which wouldn't require any HTTP header
         | injection.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-23 23:01 UTC)