[HN Gopher] Samsung asks for planning permission for 11 fabs in ... ___________________________________________________________________ Samsung asks for planning permission for 11 fabs in Texas Author : WaitWaitWha Score : 152 points Date : 2022-07-24 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.electronicsweekly.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.electronicsweekly.com) | CoastalCoder wrote: | Here's something that confuses me about building fabs in Texas. | IIUC: | | 1) Power disruptions in fabs are very expensive. | | 2) Texas's power grid has gained a reputation lately for being | unreliable. | | If those things are true, how do they plan to deal with that? | Heavy investment in onsite power generation? | wnevets wrote: | As long as it doesn't get chilly, a little too warm or too many | people set their AC to below 78 the texas power grid works | great! | newaccount2021 wrote: | gwern wrote: | Apparently they just... shut down: | https://www.kvue.com/article/money/economy/boomtown-2040/sam... | | I've read about chip fabs colocating with power plants, but | apparently they just plan to sign agreements with the local | utility for guarantees: | https://www.bizjournals.com/austin/news/2021/09/24/samsung-u... | extheat wrote: | > just shut down | | Yes, a year ago. | mshumi wrote: | Buffer of batteries and generator backup | KennyBlanken wrote: | Fabs have all sorts of power systems because even the slightest | blip or glitch in power could mean millions in losses | | I know a decade or two ago IBM was using superconducting | magnets for power smoothing to handle sub-millisecond events. | Then you have battery and flywheel systems for bigger drops | that are designed to carry load until generators can start and | accept load (usually a very short period of time if the | generator's oil and coolant are on heaters.) | rossdavidh wrote: | Austin resident here, who used to work in fabs. | | Basically, there was a time (1980's) when fabs in Austin had | their own power generation. AMD, which used to have its own | fabs, had its own power for them. Then, they (not just AMD but | everybody with fabs in Texas) eventually decided it wasn't | worth the cost, and started using the regular power grid, | because Austin's power had become more reliable. Obviously, as | the percentage of solar, wind, and natgas has increased, and | the percentage of coal has decreased, this reliability has been | thrown into question. Also, the rapid population increase has | also just meant a general problem of building new capacity fast | enough. | | My guess is that they have an eye on it, and it is also | possible they will build their own power generation, but more | likely they are just getting guarantees of some sort that | enough power capacity will be built. | mortenlarsen wrote: | The recent issues did not have renewable energy as the main | cause. Fox News is entertainment, not news (by their own | claim). | makomk wrote: | Renweable energy was not the "main cause" because it | reliably fails to generate adequate amounts of power at | that time of year and so the grid was entirely reliant on | other generation (mostly natural gas) to fill in the gap. | Basically, it wasn't the fault of renewable energy because | everyone knew it was useless anyway. | pclmulqdq wrote: | I would like to point out that the New York Times has made | the same claim very recently too (in the same context, a | defamation trial). | | Events like the Texas blackouts rarely have one sole cause. | Reliance on renewables was clearly one factor out of many. | michaelmrose wrote: | It's actually not a meaningful factor AT ALL. Where | renewables failed it wasn't because the nature of the | technology but because of failure to winterize. | hadleybelter wrote: | It was, and is, a hugely meaningful factor. Sticking your | head in the sand and pretending that it's a republican | smear campaign doesn't help. | | Texas has more wind power generation than any other state | in the US _by far_. Texas is all aboard the wind train. | It 's a huge part of the economy. Texas wants wind to | win. But that doesn't change reality. | | In the last month, Texas has gotten close to electricity | demand exceeding supply. A significant factor behind this | is that Texas gets nearly 20% of its electricity from | wind generation. On your average summer day, wind | generates between 15 and 25 GW. However, during the | recent heat wave, wind speeds dropped in west Texas | (where the bulk of the wind farms are) and wind was only | generating less than 2 GW during the hottest part of the | day. | | Similarly, Texas usually gets about 10 GW of power from | solar. However, solar drops off to 0 GW very rapidly | around 7 or 8 PM. However, in the summer in Texas, the | temperature is still at its peak around 7 PM, so there is | still significant demand while solar generation is | dropping. | | Wind and solar are unlike thermal generation in that we | (humans) can _choose_ to burn more oil and create thermal | generation when needed. But with solar and wind, we | cannot choose to suddenly create more wind or sun. We are | at the whims of nature, and until we figure out better | solutions for these problems (battery storage, maybe), | wind and solar have their disadvantages compared to | thermal. Pretending otherwise is not helpful. | michaelmrose wrote: | There is nothing but incompetence and greed keeping Texas | from having as good a grid as the rest of the US. | hadleybelter wrote: | You mean the rest of the US that has been facing | widespread threats of blackouts this summer? | | https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypnja/majority-of-us- | power-... | | https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/31/us/power-outages-electric- | gri... | | https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa- | rene... | | https://www.eenews.net/articles/grid-monitor-warns-of-u- | s-bl... | | https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/blacko | ut-... | | I'll agree with you that there's greed and incompetence | all over Texas's politicians and state management. But it | isn't unique to Texas. We have a widespread societal | problem with our electrical grid that transcends state | lines. | rayiner wrote: | It goes without saying that, just because Fox News is | saying it doesn't mean it's right. Partisan bickering in | either direction isn't a good way to educate yourself on | the issues. | | Renewable power throws a wrench in how Texas does grid | planning. In every other ISO, there is both a capacity | market, which pays providers to commit to making certain | generating capacity available, and a generation market, | which pays for actual electrical production: | https://cpowerenergymanagement.com/why-doesnt-texas-have- | a-c.... In Texas, there is just a generation market. | | Ordinarily that isn't a big deal. Generators build adequate | capacity so they can be in a position to receive payments | for generation at times of peak demand. | | Renewables break this down. They undercut traditional | generation sources in the summer, but can't be counted on | to be there at times of peak winter demand. So last winter | renewables didn't fail in the sense that _nobody was | expecting them to generate much power begin with._ But the | natural gas plants that are irreplaceable for dealing with | winter demand are dealing with reduced revenue because | renewable sources are underbidding them in peak summer | months. | [deleted] | konschubert wrote: | Looks like the free market for power has decided that a | few days of outages is not worth running extra power | capacity. | | Which might be right! But are the externalities all | correctly priced in here? | JamesBarney wrote: | I don't think they can charge whatever they like. There | are some regulations on the max price a generator charge | for electricity, which we hit during the last freeze. | kurthr wrote: | I heard about people paying over $10/kWH and having $15k | bills for about 5 days of power. I know people who paid | well over $1000 for the month and their power was out for | much of the cold spell (~50%). I hear they're going to | try and lower billing to less than $9000/MWh, but that's | not going to encourage building proper infrastructure, | and making gouging profitable doesn't encourage any of | them to improve reliability. Why bother weatherproofing? | | I'm reminded of Enron's "grandma Millie" comments. | | https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/deep- | freeze-s... | | https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/13/weekinreview/word-for- | wor... | rayiner wrote: | There's no "free market" for electricity anywhere in the | developed world, including Texas. In the US, the grid is | centrally planned by several regional transmission | organizations. In Texas that's ERCOT. An artificial | market, a bid-auction system, is used to decide the | actual price of electricity at any given moment. But in | the case of ERCOT they concluded that, because outages | prevent generators from making money during periods of | peak demand, generators had adequate incentives to invest | in reliability without a separate capacity market. And | that worked fine for decades! | | It's not a choice of "free market versus regulation." | It's a heavily regulated market. The question is only | about the design of the regulatory scheme. | vel0city wrote: | On top of that, when attempting to do rolling blackouts | critical gas infrastructure froze and so gas supply | plummeted. The gas plants weren't able to generate their | capacity because there wasn't enough gas to burn. | michaelmrose wrote: | The things is there really isn't partisan bickering on | both sides of this issue in the first place. There is | non-partisan reality where poor planning by non-partisan | entity predictable led to service disruption. Even the | failure of legislators is itself a non-partisan failure. | Ordinary incompetence. | | The only partisan bickering is the attempt to incorrectly | blame renewables for the lack of capacity when in fact | planned downtime, ordinary logistical failures, and | failure to winterize are in fact to blame. | | Everybody ought to have expected them to need that much | power. Not every day and not every winter but everyone | ought to have expected another bad winter to come round | because they had bad winters in 1957 1960 1973 1985 2015 | 2017 2021. This includes 3 years out of the last 6. | | They weren't prepared because they were short sighted, | greedy, and stupid not because solar took so much of the | profits and not because insufficient capacity had been | built out for lack of such profits. Capacity existed and | it sat unused or broke when it was most needed. | mortenlarsen wrote: | It sounds like a free market working as expected. Maybe | something important like this needs regulation to prevent | optimization based on only one parameter ($). | rossdavidh wrote: | So, I wouldn't know, because I haven't watched Fox News in | many years. The best low-emotion, technically informed | analysis of "Snowpocalypse" is probably this one from | "Practical Engineering", made by a San Antonio-based | engineer: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08mwXICY4JM | | The outages were not from any one "main cause", except | perhaps "Texas doesn't get cold that often and wasn't | ready". But, wind icing up was certainly one of several | major causes, along with natural gas pressure dropping so | that natgas-powered electrical plants could not keep | operating. | hadleybelter wrote: | The most recent issues for which the Texas electrical grid | was in the news for, the near-blackouts earlier this month, | were specifically because of unpredictably low wind speeds | in west Texas which reduced Texas's expected wind | generation from ~20 GW to under 2 GW during the periods of | peak demand. For context, peak demand in Texas is around 80 | GW. Taking 18+ GW off the table is a _huge_ blow. 18 GW is | more than the entire electrical demand of most US states. | | Fox news has nothing to do with it. Generation capacity | being reduced by nearly 25% due to unpredictably low wind | speeds is physics. It's a huge problem being faced, and | sticking your head in the sand and crying "fake news" isn't | helpful. | Fargoan wrote: | Probably. I would think that would be common in that industry | no matter the location | CoastalCoder wrote: | > Probably. I would think that would be common in that | industry no matter the location | | In particular, I was thinking about the power disruptions in | Taiwan earlier this year [0]. | | IIRC, there was concern that a power drop could ruin some/all | chips currently in the fab pipeline, and might also require | several days to re-initialize the pipeline's equipment. | | [0] https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/03/power-outage-in-taiwan- | affect... | Victerius wrote: | 3) Foundries are water guzzlers and Texas is mostly arid. | | The Northeast or the Great Lakes would make more sense. | silisili wrote: | That area of TX gets about 40 inches of rain a year, about as | much as Seattle. | | It's not as 'wet' as some areas, but far from the dusty | tumbleweeds people often associate with central and west TX. | vel0city wrote: | Parts of Texas are literally considered rain forests. | randrews wrote: | Parts are, but other parts, like the gulf coast, have plenty | of water. Texas is not the giant desert you see in cowboy | movies. | bushbaba wrote: | Didn't intel's fab recycle the bulk of their water? | | https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/water-. | .. | newaccount2021 wrote: | thaumasiotes wrote: | > Here's something that confuses me about building fabs in | Texas. | | > Texas's power grid has gained a reputation lately for being | unreliable. | | As stated, there's nothing to be confused about. You'd want to | build new fabs in Texas for the same reason you want to buy | stocks while they're down rather than while they're up. | | The reputation only matters if you're trying to sell your new | fab to someone else. If you want to use it yourself, what | matters is the reality. | CoastalCoder wrote: | > The reputation only matters if you're trying to sell your | new fab to someone else. If you want to use it yourself, what | matters is the reality. | | Certainly. My point was that (perhaps) the grid _in | actuality_ has reliability issues, and the reason I thought | that might be true is because of its current reputation. | TaylorAlexander wrote: | Also odd since their state government leaders are highly | politically motivated and want to make political waves even if | their actions are irrational (like on power production, blaming | wind turbines instead of recognizing their failure to winterize | wind and coal power systems). | jrockway wrote: | I think it's a favorable tax environment. Just remember that | these companies claim to be progressive, but if they can save | $20 on their taxes, that all goes out the window. | edmundsauto wrote: | I think the tax environment for companies is favorable, | also fewer environmental regulations (and making chips uses | some nasty chemicals) | | Just wanted to say that taxes in Texas are less favorable | than eg California when it comes to middle class citizens - | no income tax, but very high property taxes. | bbarnett wrote: | I've driven through Texas, and there is this 300 mile+ | stretch, in the North, that is hell on earth. Pure putrid | smog, the skies darkened, the air thick, dank, cloying | from refineries or something. | | So yeah, great place to build something, and save cash on | tech to cleanup your waste. Yay Texas! | | I swear people must die 10 years sooner in that stretch. | jefftk wrote: | _> people must die 10 years sooner in that stretch_ | | No Texas county breaks the top 10 for counties with the | shortest life expectancy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L | ist_of_U.S._counties_with_sho... | | 10 years less than the national average would get you to | 69, and be #5 on the list. For comparison, #50 is only 6y | below the national average. | stevenwoo wrote: | There are worse places just in Texas - there's a chemical | refinery locus to the east side of Houston near the port | and bigger one near the border with Louisiana with so | many flares at night it reminds one of Mad Max a bit, | though there are various plants scattered along the gulf | coast as well, were a half dozen that I knew of in the | mostly rural county I grew up in to the south of Houston. | ceeplusplus wrote: | > very high property taxes | | CA property taxes are highly regressive. Old boomers get | to pay sub 0.1% tax rates because of Prop 13 while new, | young, and poorer buyers get to pay tax on inflated | property valuations. | | When it comes to increasing class mobility high property | tax >>> high income tax. | anfilt wrote: | I don't live in CA, but forcing low or fixed income | people out their homes just because their property | increased in value which is often outside their control | is not good. | | From my understanding part of the problem also is the | even landlords benefit from prop 13 and same with people | that own multiple properties. Honestly, I think something | like Idaho's Homeowners Exemption is better. The owner | has to live in it to qualify. | https://tax.idaho.gov/i-1051.cfm | notatoad wrote: | that's a fair criticism a lot of the time, but I don't | think Samsung ever makes any real claims of being | progressive. not too many woke companiese have a division | that builds tanks. | JaimeThompson wrote: | How are you defining woke as you use it here? | jackmott wrote: | rossdavidh wrote: | There is plenty of politics in Texas, for sure, but it wasn't | coal power systems that failed in the winter, it was wind, | natgas, and one nuclear power plant. | vel0city wrote: | Actually some coal plants did fail in the freeze as well. | TaylorAlexander wrote: | My understanding is that this is incorrect, and it was coal | power plants that weren't properly winterized that failed. | Of course you had a lot of people claiming the opposite, | without evidence. | | EDIT: Okay there was some loss in capacity in wind power, | but the greatest loss in capacity was natural gas plants, | which lost 15GW of capacity. I confused natural gas with | coal as I don't consider either to be climate friendly. | Wind lost about 3GW of capacity. | | See at 7:50 here: https://youtu.be/08mwXICY4JM | Aloha wrote: | Natural Gas may not be climate friendly, but there is | lots of it in Texas, and it's more environmentally | friendly than coal. | | The Natural Gas distribution system just fell apart two | years ago. | rossdavidh wrote: | Excellent video channel, I follow it as well. | | By the way, natgas is actually much friendlier (well, | less hostile) to the environment than coal, if you're | looking at carbon/kWh or all of the other things released | into the atmosphere when you burn coal. | | However, you can much more easily make a giant mound of | coal next to your power plant, than store up enough | natgas (LNG is much more expensive to store). So, the | power plants required natgas to show up in the pipeline, | and when the temperature dropped and everybody cranked up | the heat, not only in Texas, the natgas pressure in the | pipelines dropped. Oil (liquid) and coal (solid) are just | fundamentally easier to stockpile than natgas or wind | (gas) or solar (light). | | A big freakin' battery would help with this, but that | isn't a cost-effective option (yet?). | abathur wrote: | Iirc wind performed more or less as forecast (admittedly | not great, but as expected) during Feb 2021 and nearly all | of the shortfall came down to natural gas plants and infra | failing. | rossdavidh wrote: | I'm all in favor of wind power in Texas, and want more of | it, but it did do worse than expected in Feb 2021. It's | just a problem to be fixed, not a reason to drop wind | power (west Texas has a lot of wind), but it did actually | happen. | seydor wrote: | Mexican labor | [deleted] | bob1029 wrote: | There is no way in hell you can run a modern fab using on-site | power anymore. Maybe in the 80s/90s, but now you got things | like EUV light sources that require megawatt-class power | delivery all on their own. Just stepping back 1 generation to | DUV and you are "only" talking ~100kW per machine, which is | still insane. | | What would probably happen is a special grid arrangement. If | you are going to build _eleven_ of these things, entire power | plants, switchyards and transmission lines will need to be | constructed ahead of time. They will likely need to run | isolated from the broader grid in some manner. I cannot imagine | Samsung executive management agreeing to this many factories | (even with subsidies) unless some guarantee could be made WRT | power delivery. | lkbm wrote: | Proposed starts of operations are 2034-2042. I'd expect a fair | bit of on-site generation/storage, but I also would hope ERCOT | gets its act together by then (or is replaced with a multi- | state system). | tekno45 wrote: | Private solar farm makes sense in certain parts of texas. | | But then water is probably the harder issue. | galangalalgol wrote: | Texas is very good at water planning. Solar does make sense | if you have lots of land. How much skilled labor actually | works _at_ a fab? Attracting skilled labor to work far enough | out, that that amount of land is affordable could be a | problem. If the weather, and power situation remain. It might | be hard in any case. | thehappypm wrote: | Depends where in Texas. Houston area is more similar to the | Deep South in weather, no shortages of water, in fact dealing | with floods is a huge part of their urban planning challenge. | ars wrote: | > 2) Texas's power grid has gained a reputation lately for | being unreliable. | | Having the appearance of something is not the same as actually | being that thing. They had one outage during a cold snap, and | then warned about high usage, but there has not actually been | another outage. | | California is also warning about an outage. | | https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20... | the graph on page 6 (labeled as page 5) should be more | instructive. | [deleted] | Aloha wrote: | As a Texan, I can concur. | | That said, the failure and piss-poor government response to | it makes me almost viscerally angry. Texas has promoted | itself as an energy leader, from traditional oil and gas | production, to large (and growing) production of renewables, | we shouldn't be having these failures. | | The issue for me isn't the failure of the power grid, | extraordinary events happen - its that: | | One - it's happened before (twice before). | | Two - we should have had a governmental response to | adequately winterize the grid. | | Three - the deregulated power system in Texas creates | perverse incentives to building more capacity in - and power | usage in Texas is growing faster than either base load or | peaking capacity is. | | These are all governmental and regulatory failures, and ones | that were both foreseeable and preventable. | galangalalgol wrote: | They are in fact doing rolling "brownouts" as of a few days | ago. I put it in quotes because the friend who told us about | it had been without for a couple hours at that point. | trashcan wrote: | This is not being done by ERCOT that manages power | distribution in Texas. Your friend had a local power | failure, probably caused by a downed power line. | | Rolling blackouts would be documented here if they were | happening: | https://www.ercot.com/services/comm/mkt_notices/opsmessages | | More info: https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/do-you-know-the- | difference-b... | marcinzm wrote: | Given this is just an initial permission with no concrete plan | to build they may also be trying to induce a bidding war with | another location that is more favorable (but more expensive). | trentnix wrote: | Samsung asks permission (but makes no actual commitments) right | before Washington votes on whether to subsidize chip | manufacturing. Maybe I'm just old and jaded and maybe asking | permission has nothing to do with posturing for DC money, but | experience tells me this might not be as genuine as the headline | suggests. | mike_n wrote: | Wouldn't it be prudent for them to ask for 11 fabs in 11 | states, and get 11x more politicians lobbying for them? | anfilt wrote: | Maybe they like the laws in Texas more, alot companies have | been moving to Texas for that reason. Although that is | conjecture. Also having them geographically close has perks | for logistics. | brewdad wrote: | I hope they are bringing their own power grid along with | those fab plans. Power bumps and brownouts are terrible for | fabs. | PragmaticPulp wrote: | I don't see the problem. If the US government shows a potential | interest in subsidizing fabs, the expected outcome is that chip | makers would explore their options for building fans here. | | That's the entire purpose of the subsidies. | bbarnett wrote: | Wouldn't the goal be to _not_ apply, before the law passes? | | The touted concept is, no one will build without subsidies. | Yet without them, Samsung is planning to build! The proof? | Well, they spent cash to plan, pay for application prep, and | apply. | | So yes it seems weird. If anything, it could kill the bill. | foota wrote: | It could be to incentivize local politicians to vote for | it. | DannyBee wrote: | Samsung might want the bill dead because it is in | relatively better shape. | | In this case, however, samsung has specifically said they | don't have plans to build at this time, and only one fab | they applied for has a _start build_ date prior to 2029 | (and online dates are in the 203x timeframe). | syrrim wrote: | Planning is not doing. Subsidies are only useful if fabs | are on the verge of being built, but are being held back. | If no one would ever build a fab in the US, then any | subsidies handed out will be wasted. If fabs are being | built anyways, then there isn't much benefit. Samsung is | saying they might build a fab, and thus could be enticed by | subsidies. | bbarnett wrote: | Their actions say otherwise, because to plan means you | think it worthwhile. | PretzelPirate wrote: | Unless their plan is "let's get permissions so that if | the subsidy is put in place, we're ready to build." | | That doesn't suggest that they'd build without the | subsidy, but that they want to be able to take advantage | of the subsidy right away, if it gets put in place. | bbarnett wrote: | Right. So spend time designing plants specific to local | build codes, environment and terrain, paying architechs, | examining land conditions, paying legal and lawyers, all | to get permits to build, when you can wait until after, | and do the same?! | | Sure, companies love to spend hundreds of thousands on | unknowns, for no real reason. | dgfitz wrote: | As a sibling comment points out, I don't think it's | disingenuous at all, and I agree with your point in all but | that remark. Almost seems like the brass at Samsung are on top | of things, and it doesn't seem like they're trying to "pull a | fast one" at all. Disclaimer: I buy Samsung things but have no | affiliation. | stjohnswarts wrote: | Well I personally know several Samsung people in the area. | Samsung is very serious about expanding into Texas in a big | way. I'm not sure if recent attempts by Texas government to | promote Christian Nationalist/Qanon ideas has dissuaded them, | although I consider that the biggest detriment for businesses | going forward in Texas (attracting young people to a state | where half the population and their rights is considered less | valuable than the other half) | terrorOf wrote: | bilsbie wrote: | Better to ask forgiveness than permission. | terrorOf wrote: | neilv wrote: | Would they have hiring difficulty, considering recent Texas | politician positions and maneuvers on some societal issues that | are important to a lot of educated people (e.g., abortion rights, | birth control rights, gun regulation, civil rights). | | (To avoid "politics" discussion on HN, I'm _not_ asking about | what values and rights individuals should have. I 'm asking | whether, given the values many skilled workers seem to have, and | that it's suddenly looking a lot harder to coexist in Texas | (regardless of pockets like Austin), how will that affect hiring | of high-tech workers who'd need to reside in Texas.) | smegger001 wrote: | there are plenty of people for whom this is either not a deal | breaker, is a non issue, or support it. secondly i think this | may be a point that breakes the red hold on the state it has | been purple for a long time already and this will probably | result in quiet the backlash against the right. | vel0city wrote: | I personally know a lot of right leaning, church going, gun | toting, EE/material science/physics/fab-related-field people in | Texas. There's plenty of people working highly skilled jobs who | don't have that much of a problem with the recent reversal of | Roe. | | You can technically be highly educated and still be pro gun, | anti gay marriage, and pro-life. It's not like learning how | silicon crystals form or how electrons move suddenly makes you | pro choice. | ceeplusplus wrote: | I don't foresee a large exodus from Texas. There's been a large | inflow during COVID and I don't see people leaving their big | houses and cheap CoL. The Twitter crowd screams a lot about | these things but if you look at sites like 538 for example, | there's been only a minor shift towards Democrats in the polls | due to Roe v Wade being overturned. The economy matters a lot | more to people than social issues. | 88840-8855 wrote: | WHY cannot we have such stuff here in Germany? WHY is everything | here so much Kleinklein? I am very mad! | | Good for Texas! It is the place to be. | throwaway4good wrote: | EU has chips act (actually passed) and is already paying Intel | billions to create a new fab in Germany. | Y-bar wrote: | What? | | > Intel picks Magdeburg in Germany for new European chip | factory | | https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel-picks-magdeburg-ger... | rossdavidh wrote: | Hi! I used to work in fabs in Texas, and then our company's new | fab got made in Germany (way back in 2000 or so). I actually | worked in Dresden for six months, as one of a few Americans | helping to get things going. These things have a way of going | in cycles. I expect Germany will get some more fab building | going soon. | pjc50 wrote: | https://www.techzine.eu/news/infrastructure/83384/bosch-buil... | | (it's just a massive US news availability bias) ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-07-24 23:00 UTC)