[HN Gopher] Show HN: I built an email marketing tool made for in...
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       Show HN: I built an email marketing tool made for indie hackers and
       solopreneurs
        
       Author : driaug
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2022-07-25 18:58 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.useplunk.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.useplunk.com)
        
       | boberoni wrote:
       | Congrats on launching to HackerNews! First step on a journey of
       | many.
       | 
       | Some Feedback:
       | 
       | - The biggest words on the landing page are "Behavioural Email
       | Tool" but I don't know what this means. Maybe I'm not in your
       | market.
       | 
       | - As I read through what Plunk does, it sounds more like "email
       | automation". However, Plunk is not like other email automation
       | because... (insert your wildest dreams)
       | 
       | - Your pricing is too low. In the wise words of patio11, "Charge
       | more!" For a detailed guide to pricing SaaS and how to _think_
       | about your pricing, check out patio11 's writing on the Stripe
       | blog[1]
       | 
       | - There's a typo in your free plan: it should be "1 seat", not "1
       | seats".
       | 
       | - Don't offer "Amazing Support" on your free plan. Reason (1) is
       | that users on the free plan tend to squeeze the most support out
       | of you, and they're not even paying you. You can reach out to
       | help them if you want, but don't _promise support_ to free users.
       | Reason (2) is that adding support is a good incentive for a
       | serious business to upgrade to the pro plan. If I 'm a business
       | who's success/revenue relies on Plunk for my success, I surely
       | would upgrade from a plan without support to one with support.
       | 
       | [1] https://stripe.com/atlas/guides/saas-pricing
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | Thank you very much for this incredible feedback, very kind of
         | you!
         | 
         | I have already made some minor changes (fixed the typo and
         | moved dedicated support).
         | 
         | Tomorrow I will be looking into altering the copy because I do
         | understand what you are saying and have heard the same feedback
         | about the term "behavioural email tool"from a couple of people!
         | 
         | Thank you very much for linking Stripe Atlas' guide, seems
         | really helpful and in-depth!
        
       | Cyberdog wrote:
       | What a very websitey web site. My first thought when I saw that
       | home page was "boy, I bet if I keep scrolling, there's going to
       | be empty areas on the page where things obnoxiously animate into
       | place" and BOY HOWDY.
       | 
       | For your free tier which claims to offer unlimited emails, how
       | are you stopping people from signing up and using it to blast out
       | spam until you find it and kill their account (after which they
       | will just sign up for another free account)? Services like these
       | need to be very careful they're not sending out spam lest spam
       | daemons start dropping all messages from their servers, causing
       | emails from legitimate users to never hit their destination. If
       | you don't have some extreme limits on this (like maybe one
       | outgoing message per five minutes) I would suggest you do away
       | with the free tier. Given the enormity of the problem of email
       | spam and the disastrous effects being seen as a spam collaborator
       | will have on your legit users, there's really no shame in getting
       | a card on file and maybe even doing other identity validation
       | before letting users send email with a tool like this.
        
       | jppope wrote:
       | looks cool. unfortunately I don't have a ton of use for it at the
       | moment... but I'll be saving the link :)
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | No worries! Thank you for the kind words.
        
       | altdataseller wrote:
       | "Completely free, no strings attached"
       | 
       | * Sees that I can't email from my own domain unless I pay. (I'm
       | all for paying, but don't say completely free, no strings
       | attached)
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | I get what you mean by this! Let me clarify what my way of
         | thought is behind the "completely free, no strings attached". I
         | do not ask for your credit card info, I don't put you on a
         | trial that magically renews at the end of the month, I don't
         | offer you a sketchy sign-on deal with an unexpected bill at the
         | end of the month. I try to make it as ethical as possible,
         | unlike some other marketing/emailing tools.
         | 
         | That is my meaning behind no strings attached. Of course I put
         | some features behind a subscription because they demand
         | significant work from my side (managing the domains is one of
         | those).
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I was confused by this. How is the email sent for free
           | customers? From your domain? If so, that seems like a totally
           | different (and worse, generally) thing than the competitors
           | you list. It's fine to have a free tier, but then you can't
           | really compare it to those competitors.
        
           | cercatrova wrote:
           | Write all that as bullet points on the website itself
        
       | buf wrote:
       | I'm an indie hacker and I send 2M emails per month on Sendgrid.
       | It costs around $1k per month.
       | 
       | I use sendgrid because it just works, but I'm always curious when
       | a new thing comes around and I'd love to save some money.
       | 
       | How does this work at scale?
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | At scale this should work fine. Some parts of the dashboard are
         | not yet prepared for that amount of data to flow in though, may
         | be hard to navigate and monitor.
         | 
         | I am also looking at the pricing for that because right now I
         | offer unlimited emails but I need a good way to compensate for
         | power users like yourself without going completely overboard.
        
       | babyshake wrote:
       | I think one of the big value-adds of email tools is they help
       | emails not end up in spam. It would be good if the website
       | mentioned this if it is something that Plunk helps with compared
       | to sending your own emails.
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | It is very hard to make statements about this. It very much
         | depends on the reputation of your own domain (if you are not
         | using our domain to send your emails) and the content of your
         | emails if they will end up in spam. I have yet to see one of my
         | own emails origination from @useplunk.com end up in somebody's
         | spam folder! I believe that is a great start and further down
         | the line (with more data) I may be able to make specific claims
         | about it!
        
           | rglover wrote:
           | Guessing you've already done it, but I worked on something
           | loosely related to this a couple years back and best things
           | you can do to avoid it are:
           | 
           | 1. Make sure you've done DKIM and SPF verification via your
           | SMTP provider.
           | 
           | 2. Use an SMTP provider with a solid sender reputation (e.g.,
           | Postmark).
           | 
           | 3. Help users keep lists clean. Aggressively handle bounces
           | and make sure unsubscribe is easy to avoid spam complaints.
           | 
           | P.S. Dig the design/feel of everything. No immediate use but
           | I've bookmarked to come back and give it a try when I do.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | eappleby wrote:
           | It sounds like the free version sends emails from the
           | useplunk.com domain. If that is the case and some of those
           | emails get marked as spam, won't all emails from the
           | useplunk.com domain be more likely to be identified as spam?
        
             | driaug wrote:
             | I have built-in an automatic catch, if x% (still looking at
             | what a good value for x is) of your emails bounce then your
             | account gets quarantined and we see what we can do about
             | that. That way we can prevent damage before other users get
             | affected.
             | 
             | Does that make sense?
        
               | djbusby wrote:
               | Bounce is different than spam. Are you DMARC monitoring?
        
               | driaug wrote:
               | Sorry about the confusing wording, with bounce I mean
               | both hard bounces, rejects and complaints (they are all
               | monitored appropriately). They are all taken into account
               | when calculating the % because they all have impact on
               | the domain reputation.
        
       | jdthedisciple wrote:
       | Looks great! Plans to turn it into a SaaS?
        
         | alexchamberlain wrote:
         | Is it not a SaaS already?
        
           | jdthedisciple wrote:
           | mobile makes me blind sometimes ... my bad
        
       | letterlib wrote:
       | I wish there was more copy on this site about what the tool is
       | and why it's useful. It looks interesting, but there's not enough
       | information there for me to figure out if it's worth investing
       | more.
       | 
       | I could do the free version to find out, but it'd be nice to have
       | a 2-3 min video or page that goes more in depth on the features
       | that are there.
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | Valuable feedback, thank you for this! How would you feel about
         | a demo video where I show you how to set it up and go through
         | the features at the same time?
        
           | djbusby wrote:
           | Don't waste my attention on the one-time setup BS. Show why
           | it kicks ass in less than 30s.
        
           | LanceJones wrote:
           | Features, sure. Common use cases solved by the features, even
           | better.
        
           | eappleby wrote:
           | I agree that it would be helpful to show a simple use case on
           | the home page. Maybe I'm not the target customer (although I
           | am a soloproneur), but your user flow of (1) user clicking a
           | button, (2) plunk receiving an event, (3) plunk sends an
           | email, isn't really a problem that I have, since sending an
           | email after an action is taken is pretty easy to manage. Are
           | you are focusing on categorizing users into groups and
           | sending them progressive emails?
        
             | driaug wrote:
             | A very big part of what Plunk does is giving you the
             | opportunity to link multiple events together and delay
             | emails. You can extend it to users that have clicked button
             | A and B but not button C and send those an email after 5
             | days. Significantly harder to implement and a lot of code
             | that isn't really used elsewhere!
        
               | eappleby wrote:
               | Yeah, makes sense
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Replace all the text "above the fold" (readable without
       | scrolling) with _benefit_ not _features_. In other words, _why_ I
       | should keep reading, not _how_ you do it.
       | 
       | That first text has one job: convince the person who clicked on
       | the link to learn more (or, if they aren't a prospect, send them
       | away so they don't waste your, and their, time). It's an elevator
       | pitch, though not to an investor but to a customer.
       | So: Make it easy to send mail from inside your app.       Or:
       | Mail should be an easy part of your marketing.  Plunk makes it
       | easy.
       | 
       | I'm not even sure what behavioural email is so either I'm not
       | part of your target market or you're accidentally sending me
       | away.
       | 
       | Also, I like the indy hacker solopreneur part, even though my
       | currrent startup is neither. That's why I clicked. But are you
       | using those terms to pull in people who are discouraged by how
       | clumsy the incumbents are (that would be me)? Or are you
       | accidentally excluding people who could use this too (when apple
       | launched the "airport" wifi access point around 2000 it was
       | designed as a consumer product, but lots of people bought them
       | and stuck them in the drop ceiling to get work done by getting
       | around IT). There's no good answer to this, and perhaps the right
       | thing is to start where you are and expand (like, say, Dropbox
       | did). The reason other mail sending things are so hard to use is
       | because big companies want lots of knobs to twiddle, and one of
       | your benefits is not having those knobs. You don't want customers
       | who want extra control knobs.
       | 
       | Is this for the back end or for mobile?
        
       | mousetree wrote:
       | We use Segment->Vero as our main automated email marketing flow
       | (~5M emails per month so not huge, we use Sendgrid via Vero to
       | actually send the emails). We're looking to change to something
       | more established like Iterable/Customer.io as Vero is very slow
       | (UI and latency to send emails). More than happy to provide
       | feedback as to what works/doesn't in your competitors.
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | That would be very valuable to my development! You can always
         | reach out to me at dries@useplunk.com
        
       | mattl wrote:
       | Name is similar to splunk.com -- I wonder if that'll be an issue?
        
         | driaug wrote:
         | Splunk is in a very different part of the landscape than Plunk
         | so legally there isn't that much of an issue. Verbally it may
         | be more confusing but it'll be fine!
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-25 23:00 UTC)