[HN Gopher] House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock tra... ___________________________________________________________________ House Democrats to propose ban on lawmaker stock trading - report Author : thesecretceo Score : 113 points Date : 2022-07-28 14:54 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (seekingalpha.com) (TXT) w3m dump (seekingalpha.com) | yieldcrv wrote: | Make sure it includes their spouses or the marital unit. | booleanbetrayal wrote: | It's all for naught if this is overlooked. | andrewjf wrote: | "overlooked" | | Unfortunately I'm too cynical to think that something that | obvious would be merely overlooked (rather than intentionally | left out). If it's an incremental step forward, I'll take it | anyway. | frankbreetz wrote: | First line of the article | | >>Democrats in the House of Representatives will propose a ban | on lawmakers, their spouses and senior staff from trading | stocks, | cronix wrote: | It's literally the first text and bullet point in the article: | | > Democrats in the House of Representatives will propose a ban | on lawmakers, their spouses and senior staff from trading | stocks, Punchbowl News reported Thursday. | yieldcrv wrote: | the point is that I didn't read it, good thing I follow | cronix who reads the articles so I don't have to | livinglist wrote: | I don't know why this hasn't been proposed sooner? Or was there | any attempt before this? | rodneyhayes wrote: | STOCK act 2012. I believe it was quietly repealed. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _STOCK act 2012. I believe it was quietly repealed._ | | No, it wasn't. | | It was scoped back, uncontroversially, to not apply to _e.g._ | Congressional staffers. It still applies to "the President, | Vice President, Congress, or anyone running for Congress" | [1]. It also, more controversially, "eliminated the | requirement for the creation of searchable, sortable database | of information in reports, and the requirement that reports | be done in electronic format, rather than on paper." | | The law and its penalties still apply to members of Congress. | It just permitted them to file on paper. That leads to crap | like this [2]. Still, a long shot from repeal. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOCK_Act#Amendment | | [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/stocks-congress-trading- | disc... | encryptluks2 wrote: | Nancy Pelosi wanted to try to profit from the CHIP act first. | Apparently her husband sold his NVIDIA shares shortly before it | was announced that the GOP was going to vote against it due to | the Machin deal | colinmhayes wrote: | Nvidia isn't benefiting form the chips act, so this makes no | sense. | encryptluks2 wrote: | I think it is silly to say they don't benefit from it just | because they aren't directly getting handouts. Many | suppliers would benefit even if they were not handed the | money directly. | ckardat123 wrote: | Pelosi's Nvidia sale was timed poorly. $NVDA is up about 8% | in the two days since they sold. | encryptluks2 wrote: | Here is the story: | | https://www.marketwatch.com/story/house-to-vote-thursday- | on-... | | When you see the CHIPS socialism for the rich act stall, | and ultimately NVIDIA will be affected and NVDA goes down | below that.. what is a couple days ultimately, if you get | out ahead of a much larger drop? | ckardat123 wrote: | I'm operating on the assumption that the market has | already priced the possibility of the CHIPS Act failing | into the current price of $NVDA. | | It's possible that new information will come out that | will lead to the price of $NVDA dropping, but I think | that your initial comment was pretty misleading as the | new announcement has not lead to Pelosi's sale being | profitable. | _fizz_buzz_ wrote: | This needs a big [citiation needed]! Why would you throw such | serious accusations around without a source? | tenpies wrote: | Is this not common knowledge? | | Pelosi is a fantastic fund manager. If she weren't a | politician she would crush almost every fund manager out | there. | | You really have to be a die-hard Democrat to even pretend | that it's a coincidence. | | See: https://unusualwhales.com/i_am_the_senate/pelosi | ckardat123 wrote: | The comment above is plainly false though. | | Pelosi's sale of Nvidia was timed incredibly poorly, if | the goal was to avoid short-term price movement around | the CHIPS Act news. $NVDA is up about 8% in the two days | since the sale. | encryptluks2 wrote: | Up 8% now, down 15-20+% in the near future. Hm... would | you rather sale now if you have a heads up that the CHIPS | act is going to stall and affect the price, which is | correlated to others in the industry, or wait until is | down more? | sschueller wrote: | Is this headline missing a comma or is it me? It sounds like they | would ban lawmakers from trading stock only in August?! | heavymark wrote: | Confused as well. I read it as ban only applies to August and | was wondering what was special about August. Think it's missing | at least an "a" before ban but ideally a comma before that too. | [deleted] | d23 wrote: | Looks fine to me. If the modifier were placed at the end of the | title it would be misplaced and would imply what you've said. | billfruit wrote: | Yes, it does look odd. | | Perhaps it should have been: In August, House Democrats to | propose ban on lawmaker stock trading. | corrral wrote: | Yep. Currently reads like they're going to propose... something | (marriage?) "in August ban on lawmaker stock trading". Problem | is that phrases like "August ban" are common in headlines, but | that's not what's intended here--it's not saying "the ban that | happened/will-happen in August", as in "alleged mob boss nabbed | in August sting operation", but describing _when they 'll | propose_ a ban. | | A fix could indeed involve commas: | | House Democrats to propose, in August, ban on lawmaker stock | trading | kyleblarson wrote: | I would hope that lawmakers' spouses would also be disallowed. | Paging Nancy and Paul Pelosi. | ckardat123 wrote: | The proposed legislation extends to spouses and senior staff | goodpoint wrote: | Isn't this seriously illegal in most countries? | arcticbull wrote: | It's illegal in these here United States too unless you're a | lawmaker. | nostromo wrote: | Hear me out... few people want to run for federal office already. | The pay isn't great and it's hard work. | | If the US was a company, there'd be no question that we'd need to | pay our leadership much better to attract top talent. We pay | senators $170k a year to manage our country with a $20 trillion | economy. | | So what we end up with is activists who crave power and elites | from rich families for whom $170k a year is a rounding error. | Those families then use the power from being in office to enrich | their families even more. | | One solution could be to double or triple pay for US | representatives along with banning stock trading and things like | "speaking fees." | jc_811 wrote: | I think one issue with this line of thinking is that the USA is | completely and fundamentally _not_ a company, and shouldn 't be | run as such. A company's goal is to maximize profits. A | country's goal is to maximize the well-being of their citizens. | A company's employees are expendable. A country's citizens need | to have their needs looked after 24/7 and are indispensable. | oneoff786 wrote: | Stock trading bans are huge detriments to rich people and minor | detriments to poor people. 170k is frankly a lot of money. | Sure, it could be more. I don't think it's all that necessary | though. | | Something that makes it hard for rich people to represent poor | people without losing some wealth seems great to me. | devmunchies wrote: | I could get behind something like this. If you are re-elected, | it would raise your salary. | | At the very least, I don't see a problem with blind trusts or | only investing in broad index funds and in a specific trading | window. Politicians should be able to invest for retirement | like everyone else. | Sevii wrote: | Let's do a trade. Congress people get paid 1mil/year adjusted | for inflation plus pension, but in return they don't get to own | stocks or real estate while they are in office. | AlgorithmicTime wrote: | brianwawok wrote: | Lawmaker pay is a rounding error. | | Clearly we can't pay lawmakers $0 and expert high effort + no | corruption. | | is there any proof of any way that saying pay from 170k a year | to ??? 1 million USD? a year would have any impact on the | problems? | | Do countries with less corrupt lawmakers pay more than the US? | I doubt that... | AlgorithmicTime wrote: | ckardat123 wrote: | I've been collecting and sharing (@QuiverCongress on Twitter) | data on stock trading by U.S. congressmen for the past couple | years. | | While there is currently legislation that requires congressmen to | disclose their financial dealings, enforcement around it is | incredibly weak. | | Congressmen are supposed to disclose stock transactions within 45 | days of when they are made, but in practice there are dozens of | violations of this rule which result in hardly a slap on the | wrist. I've seen a couple cases of politicians conveniently | waiting till after election cycles to disclose controversial | trades. | | While I'm generally pessimistic about the odds of congress voting | to regulate itself, I'm still hopeful that something comes from | this push. There's certainly a lot of room for improvement. | SoftTalker wrote: | I'm not sure a complete ban is necessasry, but their | investments should be moved to a blind trust while they are in | office, and perhaps for some time afterwards. | [deleted] | melony wrote: | Somebody please ban this person. You have been spamming Reddit | with your fintech startup's content marketing disguised as | activism for months. Please don't do here on HN. | munk-a wrote: | If it becomes a big enough liability that prominent | representatives are concerned about their reelection due to it | then it will happen. | | Yes, Congress is reluctant to specifically legislate against | itself, so to make it happens a stink must be raised. | ckardat123 wrote: | Yeah, I definitely don't want to write it off entirely. | | The STOCK act passed 96-3, so while congress might not tend | to be keen on regulating themselves, it's not completely | allergic. | | Interestingly, one of the 3 'no' votes on the STOCK act was | later engaged in some of the fishiest trading I've seen | around the start of COVID. Here's a visual I made on it: | | https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/gwocvt/sen. | .. | yndoendo wrote: | Binding resolution allows for We the People to force the | legislative body to enact legislation that they oppose. This | is now cannibals become legal in Colorado. Unfortunately not | all states have binding resolution nor are legislative body | willing to empower the people. Binding resolution also needs | to be bound at a Federal level, which it is not, to bring in | true balance of power and laws that have true accountability. | Such as all money gained through insider trading is forfeited | along with possible jail time and possible loss ability to be | a constitute representative. | | If binding resolution was an available tool for We the | People, legislative body would work move together than | separately. | [deleted] | matt3210 wrote: | Lol this win never happen. Politicians will never vote to | bankrupt themselves | thesecretceo wrote: | they gotta do something to save face... i agree with you tho, | this is just posturing | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _this is just posturing_ | | Eh, I don't think it is. Most members of Congress aren't | minting money trading stock. The revolving door is far more | insidious. Pointing at this lets pass make minor reforms, | chuck a surprise at the eternally cynical and keep the goose | that lays the golden eggs. | | The partisanship of the accusations also helps galvanize | support. Republicans can claim to be sticking it to Pelosi. | Democrats can better cover their flank. The base will eat it | up. Nobody in finance cares. And like two members of Congress | will be slightly diminished millionaires. Broadly, a win-win. | (Even if more marginally than presented.) | chabes wrote: | How would that lead to bankruptcy? | tootallgavin wrote: | So should all politicians receive money exclusively from | lobbyists/donors? Or I guess they should go get paycheck jobs | somewhere? | | Where does a politicians money come from? If they exclusively | received their money from stock trading as opposed to | lobbyists/donors, how do you think the policy decisions would | change? | ch4s3 wrote: | Senators make $174,000/yr and most are already wealthy | before running for election.No one is asking them to give | up all income streams outside of their jobs, just to stop | trading individual stocks. Senators have a LOT of knowledge | about things that will effect stock prices that is outside | of the public realm. Trading on that knowledge is a clear | violation of public trust. | tootallgavin wrote: | > just to stop trading individual stocks | | Why? | | Is buying a particular car not an investment? what about | a house? Buying and selling assets should not be | criminalized. Having privileged knowledge is part of the | game. Someone who cannot read and write is going to have | a tough time in life. | | Insider trading is already illegal. | | Also, investing in a publicly traded company is a weird | way of violating public trust. Its as if the public does | not know it too can invest where their politicians have | invested. | danaris wrote: | ....They get a salary? | | It's not huge, by rich-people standards (which is a | legitimate concern, as it does lead to very rich people | being more able to take politician jobs than regular | people), but, what, you thought they _relied_ on graft to | buy their dinners?? | tootallgavin wrote: | > but, what, you thought they relied on graft to buy | their dinners | | They will if this ban is instituted | willcipriano wrote: | It is huge by the people they are supposed to govern | standards though. It would be a raise to virtually | everyone except the top 1% of people in terms of | household income. They also receive top of line medical | care and retirement benefits in addition to the salary. | The salary isn't preventing poor people from becoming | elected officials. | tootallgavin wrote: | > The salary isn't preventing poor people from becoming | elected officials. | | I agree, and trading stocks is not keeping poor people | from becoming elected officials either | ziddoap wrote: | > _So should all politicians receive money exclusively from | lobbyists /donors? Or I guess they should go get paycheck | jobs somewhere?_ | | Am I mistaken? I thought most political position are paid | positions. Currently north of $150,000 USD for members of | congress, I think? | tootallgavin wrote: | And so how do these members of congress pay for staffing, | research, etc? with just 150K per year? | ziddoap wrote: | Through your taxpaying dollars, just like every other | government worker? | | > _pay for [...] research_ | | Thanks for the laugh. | | They might read research, but they aren't _personally_ | funding it. | | You may wish to read up on the subject of government | work, salaries, etc. before you go debating about it on | the net. Most of this stuff is covered in early Civics | classes, and as someone who presumably pays taxes, you | might be interested in finding out where and how those | dollars get distributed! | paulcole wrote: | It's called the Members' Representational Allowance and | is north of $1,000,000 per year. | | https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL30064.pdf | wbsss4412 wrote: | Politicians don't receive money directly from lobbyists and | donors. Doing so would be a violation of rules against | taking bribes. | | Lobbyists and donors give money to campaigns, which require | untold sums of money these days, and a congresspersons | power within the party is directly correlated to their | ability to fundraise for the party. | | As to their actual personal means of a congresspersons | wealth, they're paid fairly high salaries (close to 200k | per year, which, despite the expectations of this forum is | quite a bit for the US) and yes, they have the ability to | engage in their own investments and business dealings on | the side. Not to mention their incredibly generous | pensions. | tootallgavin wrote: | > Politicians don't receive money directly from lobbyists | and donors. Doing so would be a violation of rules | against taking bribes. | | > a congresspersons power within the party is directly | correlated to their ability to fundraise for the party | | I agree, trading stocks is an easy, relatively passive | way of doing this. | epgui wrote: | > Where does a politicians money come from? | | They have an annual salary. | tootallgavin wrote: | What about the salaries of the staff? What about the | tools needed to perform the job? | jandrese wrote: | This is dead on arrival. They aren't even going to get a solid | majority of Democrats on board and there's going to be absolutely | zero Republican support. I would honestly be amazed if it even | made it to the house floor. | morninglight wrote: | Let's get real... | | *** TERM LIMITS *** | | . | jdlshore wrote: | Term limits increase the power of lobbyist, according to what | I've read. They're not a panacea. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _Let 's get real...term limits_ | | This is a proven strategy for tanking legislation. | | Ten lawmakers on a linear political spectrum. Compromise is at | 5. 1, 2, 9 and 10 said no; 3 and 8 grudgingly accepted. The | measure looks poised to pass with six votes. | | What can you do to tank it? Propose a sizzling 31/2. 3 can't | help but demand it at all costs. It's so juicy! And so close to | the _real_ intent behind 5! 8, meanwhile, horrified and | betrayed, tells everyone to kindly fuck off. The centre holds. | But the fringes have frayed enough to compromise passage. | | We're in a rare state of inching bipartisanship. That mitigates | the last decades' go-to strategy of lobbing landmines from the | extremes, aiming to tear apart that delicate ground of | negotiating space from the poles; to make moderation tantamount | to treason. I suspect we'll now see more baiting of edges to | chew away at the most-extreme moderates instead, an escalating | game of No True Scotsman at the fringes. | arcticbull wrote: | I don't really get the appeal. We don't term limit anyone in | any other job, generally we believe tenure and experience | corresponds with competency. Would you accept a term limit for | a software engineer? Of course not. Your value to an | organization, your ability to be effective, to do good work, | increases the longer you stay. You're good, you stay. | | Term limits feel tantamount to demanding a lawmaking body | comprised entirely of amateurs - instead of professional public | servants. | | The problem is incentives. It should be illegal for lawmakers | to receive any money or other in-kind support for their re- | election campaign from anyone other than the Federal Election | Commission. Everyone who gets more than a few thousand | signatures gets the exact same budget. | | This way, everyone has the same war-chest, and has to run on | their own merits - not on raising capital - and they're | measured on their ability to succeed. It also instantly nerfs | the allure of lobbying. | paulgb wrote: | > We don't term limit anyone in any other job | | Moreover, lawmaker is the only job you have to re-interview | for every 2-6 years. | | I personally wish there was more turnover of a few long- | standing incumbents who have managed to cling to power for | decades, but the voters apparently don't, and adding term | limits won't magically make the voters pick the people I'd | rather see in those positions. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-07-28 17:00 UTC)