[HN Gopher] Put down devices, let your mind wander, study suggests
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Put down devices, let your mind wander, study suggests
Author : chazeon
Score : 74 points
Date : 2022-07-31 15:37 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.apa.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.apa.org)
| ilaksh wrote:
| Don't most people think about stuff before they fall asleep? I
| know I do. Often it takes quite awhile to fall asleep for me and
| have plenty of time to do it.
| hammock wrote:
| Not if you fall asleep to YouTube or TikTok
| theshrike79 wrote:
| I specifically need to zone out and calm my mind TO fall
| asleep. Took me years to teach my brain that "lying down in
| bed" == "brain turns off".
|
| Otherwise I'd spiral into a web of incomplete thoughts that
| would never get anywhere and I'd just get really stressed - and
| then fall to a restless sleep, anxious.
|
| Now if I'm a bit wound up, I put on some wireless headphones
| and listen to some really boring or non-consequential podcast
| with a sleep timer on Overcast. Unless I'm really stressed, I
| never get to the end of a 10 minute episode.
| david_allison wrote:
| I fall asleep pretty much instantly. Isn't thinking about
| things distracting you from sleep?
| jerlam wrote:
| There's also the long-standing idea that people come up with
| great/interesting ideas while in the shower (so much that it's an
| internet meme), and that's attributed to the shower being one of
| the few places where you don't have media or electronics trying
| to capture your attention.
| kevinventullo wrote:
| Not just media and electronics; nearly all sensory input is
| minimized in the shower.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| I've said this a thousand times and will repeat it until I die:
|
| The #1 job for a parent is to make sure their children are bored
| out of their minds regularly. Take away the sources of easy
| serotonin (usually the smartphone), either by taking the kid
| outside without it or whatever works for you.
|
| For example if you're on a 20 minute car ride as a family, the
| kids don't need to be on their smart device every second of the
| way - preferably at all. It's OK to be bored and just have your
| own thoughts to keep you entertained.
| [deleted]
| dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote:
| 100%. A book, a backyard and a stick is all kids need. For each
| birthday they get an additional book and stick.
| dbtc wrote:
| To pair with a book: blank paper and something to mark it
| with
|
| To pair with a stick, when old enough: a knife.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| This is a good guide to follow with kids:
| https://www.fiftydangerousthings.com
|
| Our kid started with a knife when they were around 2 or 3.
| A dull-ish slightly serrated one first and graduated to an
| actual kitchen knife at 4. Got their first actual outdoor
| knife for their 5th birthday.
| nerdbaggy wrote:
| I did a one hour float tank session before. It's very interesting
| and kinda hard experience being with only yourself floating in
| water for a full hour.
| anvandare wrote:
| "Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de
| ne savoir pas demeurer en repos dans une chambre."
|
| "All the unhappiness of men arises from a single fact, which is
| from not knowing how to stay at rest in a room."
|
| (Blaise Pascal, Pensees, 139)
|
| It is no coincidence that the word 'idle' means both 'doing
| nothing' and 'being worthless'. I could write out a longer
| comment with some more thoughts on the health of a society that
| is obsessed with productivity and 'staying busy', but I'd rather
| spend those minutes doing nothing instead.
| liberia wrote:
| All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit
| quietly in a room alone.
|
| Blaise Pascal
|
| For another spin on it.
|
| That quote is brilliant and profound. Sad that thinking is
| regarded as an afflicting disease and our devices are the cure.
|
| I purposefully dedicate an hour to just do jack shit and be
| alone with my thoughts.
|
| 'Oh you saw something in your mind? Relax it's called an idea.
| Get used to them'
| lampshades wrote:
| Sometimes I wonder if our preoccupation with information
| consumption is a catalyst for our inability to have epiphanic
| thought.
|
| We'd probably have more Einstein-like breakthroughs in science if
| we weren't constantly reading to find the answer and instead let
| our minds connect into the collective consciousness that already
| knows all.
| pxue wrote:
| I actually think it's the opposite. We put TOO much emphasis on
| epiphanic breakthroughs and often incorrectly attribute major
| discoveries to seemingly moments of epiphany. Einstein's
| biggest discovery took him decades to formalize, and definitely
| was not a eureka moment.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| We stand on the shoulders of giants.
|
| ...but the giants are getting bigger for every generation and
| it takes longer and longer to climb to the shoulders.
|
| Some people make it, some quit half way and some don't even try
| when they see the monumental effort needed.
|
| It takes huge effort and tons of time just to stay current on
| world events, never mind popular culture and hobbies and other
| interests. Combine that with 8-10 hours of work every day
| (including commutes) + family time + sleep and there really
| isn't time for epiphanic thought.
|
| A bit over a hundred years ago we had people like Sabine
| Baring-Gould[0], who wrote over a hundred books and published
| over a thousand papers. He was born to a rich family, though,
| which did give him the time and resources. But at the time it
| was possible for him to learn much of the existing knowledge
| and expand it radically during his lifetime.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabine_Baring-Gould
| xcambar wrote:
| As I grew older, there are certain things I have learned to enjoy
| more, such as slowness, inaction, loneliness, boredom.
|
| Boredom is typically the most controversial, so the reason here
| is that boredom first allows for moments you want out of, but
| also there's more: It expands the range of comfort zone of
| emotions and sets the ground floor of your emotions low enough
| that you can actually welcome more experiences as rather good.
| That limits the number of "meh" moments drastically. Beware
| though that setting the ground floor of your emotions lower
| doesn't mean it lowers down the average "feeling of happiness" in
| your life.
|
| The thing I reject the most today is the constant pressure for
| action, movement and performance. I used to love them though but
| now, nearing 40, I see them a way to escape rather than embrace
| what life has to offer.
| liberia wrote:
| Well as a hacker, boredom is the enemy and we're always at war
| with boredom. For a hacker, boredom is a form of death.
| ta988 wrote:
| Not my experience. I'm happy to hack things so I have more
| alone space and time too. I don't see the two opposed at all.
| dexwiz wrote:
| I wonder how much of the current anxiety wave that seems to have
| stricken Millennials and Gen Z is because they have no idea how
| to be alone with their thoughts. Anecdotally, I have heard a
| great many jokes about needing a distraction due to negative
| internal discourse. Like if they are left alone for more than 5
| minutes by themselves, they will inevitably spiral into
| depression. I have people in my life that need a constant supply
| of internet, podcasts, music, tv, etc, or they start to get
| anxious.
|
| As an anxious person, I see why. Like any skill, guiding your
| thoughts away from negativity without repression, is something
| that needs practice. If you are constantly distracted, you never
| get to practice this trait. I see the rise of "wellness" and pop-
| meditation as a reaction.
| [deleted]
| the_gipsy wrote:
| Terror management, or how to evade thinking about our own
| death.
| chadlavi wrote:
| Well, that and the world is a pretty terrible place. Think
| about it for too long and you'll get pretty depressed.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| The trick is not to think about it.
|
| I stopped following the 24 hour news cycle a some time last
| decade and my quality of life improved radically.
|
| I curate what I read myself, with RSS feeds, Reddit
| subscriptions and whatever happens to get to the front page
| of Hacker News =)
|
| I don't need to know up to the minute death tolls from COVID
| the war in Ukraine or the latest natural disaster. I don't
| need to know which politician lied this time and what their
| opponent said to that. Knowing that doesn't bring anything
| positive to my life.
|
| (I also find it fascinating that Gen X is completely
| forgotten in this discourse, like the OP did. It's just
| "Millennials and GenZ" for every debate)
| formerly_proven wrote:
| "The world is awful. The world is much better. The world can
| be much better."
| vorpalhex wrote:
| The world is generally a better place than it has ever been.
| That trend seems to continue.
| pomian wrote:
| The world, is full of goodness, hope, progress and humour.
| But, you need to accept that in between all the media (news)
| that focuses on the negative, and bad noise. Look at a parent
| playing with a kid, look at a kitten, look at a doctor, look
| at a teacher. Saving, creating, improving lives, in spite of
| the negativity of the 'press'.
| thatswrong0 wrote:
| Depends on your perspective.
|
| I know the more I'm on my phone, and the more social media I
| consume, the more I feel that way. But when I actually get
| out into the world and meet people and do stuff.. it's not
| nearly so bad.
|
| And it's cheesy but: "grant me the serenity to accept the
| things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can,
| and wisdom to know the difference."
| civilized wrote:
| > It is important to note that participants did not rate thinking
| as an extremely enjoyable task, but simply as more enjoyable than
| they thought it would be, according to Murayama. On average,
| participants' enjoyment level was around 3 to 4 on a 7-point
| scale
|
| Subtitle: you'll have a mediocre time doing it, but it'll be
| better than you expected!
| [deleted]
| lumb63 wrote:
| As if that were not bad enough, the news-checking group seemed
| to enjoy their time more than the thinking group.
|
| The article seems to be pitching the study as showing that
| thinking is preferable to other activities, but the data shows
| that simply isn't the case.
| osamagirl69 wrote:
| To be honest, I feel like the APA article actually did a very
| good job explaining the researchers results "we consistently
| found that participants' predicted enjoyment and engagement
| for the waiting task were significantly less than what they
| actually experienced"
|
| and their conclusion
|
| "These results suggest an inherent difficulty in accurately
| appreciating how engaging just thinking can be, and could
| explain why people prefer keeping themselves busy, rather
| than taking a moment for reflection and imagination in our
| daily life."
|
| As you pointed out, it is easy to draw the conclusion
| 'thinking is preferable to other activities', but that is
| clearly false--it isn't, and to make matters worse, we
| perceive it will be even worse than it is!.
| jrs235 wrote:
| Hmmm. Just got home. While driving I noticed several bad drivers.
| I immediately assumed they were holding their cell phone in one
| hand and looking at it. I was right. Then I thought of making
| bumper stickers: "Do you hold your spouse's hand as much as you
| hold your phone while driving?!?" Then I reached over and held my
| wife's hand.
| xcambar wrote:
| Many pediatricians in Berlin (presumably all around Germany as
| well) have a poster showing parents doom-scrolling with the
| mention "how much did you talk to your kids today?".
|
| Brutal and relevant. I think of it every time I have a "I am in
| this picture and I don't like it" moment.
| luqtas wrote:
| hahaha!
|
| that was so cute
|
| edit: ops i forgot there is a thumbs up button... so how about
| vehicles having a simple lock checking if driver phone is being
| used? that would save so much accidents
| osamagirl69 wrote:
| There is some interesting discussion in the analysis portion of
| the paper that resonated deeply with me.
|
| >However, the fact that participants underestimated the potential
| task motivation during the thinking period may indicate that
| people avoid thinking not because it is aversive but because it
| is expected to be aversive.
|
| >Such an inaccurate expectation may lead people to unnecessarily
| avoid spending time thinking in their daily life.
|
| >For example, the current widespread availability of the Internet
| and mobile phones makes it extremely easy for people to kill time
| when they have nothing to do, and our results suggest that
| people's continual engagement in electronic devices may in part
| reflect inaccurate metacognitive beliefs about the value of not
| doing anything
|
| I found that hiking helps me break the addiction (or dopamine
| hits or whatever you prefer to call it) to the internet. I
| observe a similar effect to that described in the paper (not
| because it is aversive but because it is expected to be aversive)
| -- the act of filling my water bottle an getting in the car
| sometimes takes every ounce of my will, but after I am over that
| I absolutely enjoy the exercise and sense of clarity it brings to
| let my mind wonder for a few hours.
|
| As an experiment I just changed my HN bookmark to point to this
| story, to remind me that I shouldn't be refreshing HN for the
| 12th time today, and then add one more click to get to the
| homepage.
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(page generated 2022-07-31 23:00 UTC)