[HN Gopher] Citroen 2cv pages
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       Citroen 2cv pages
        
       Author : dayve
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2022-07-31 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.citrobe.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.citrobe.org)
        
       | Normille wrote:
       | Ah. Memories. I actually learned to drive in a 2CV. Brilliant wee
       | motors. I'd love to have one again. Just to play around in.
        
       | Gordonjcp wrote:
       | I once beat a colleague of mine driving is Porsche 911 Turbo in
       | an impromptu street race in a deserted semi-demolished housing
       | scheme somewhere in central Scotland, in an elderly Citroen
       | Dyane.
       | 
       | Yup. With its 602cc engine, it absolutely wiped the floor with
       | the 911. Totally unfair fight, fully 30 seconds faster per mile.
       | 
       | I probably shouldn't have goaded him into the bits that still had
       | speed bumps, eh?
        
       | nwatson wrote:
       | Those 2CV are very light. My family were passengers in a drive
       | from Santiago to Valparaiso (Chile) in someone's American
       | station-wagon when a 2CV tried to cross in front of us. We hit
       | them and a passenger from that other vehicle got pinned under the
       | top-of-door frame when the 2CV toppled over. My one-armed dad
       | managed to tilt the vehicle off them so they could be pulled out.
       | She didn't seem extremely hurt.
        
       | bufordtwain wrote:
       | The 2CV is an interesting car to drive. It has very little power
       | and the gear stick pokes out of the dashboard. It's a comfortable
       | ride and you can peel back the cloth roof cover on a sunny day.
       | Unfortunately it's not great at protecting the occupants in the
       | event of a crash. Its doors are really thin and there are no air
       | bags. Its design is very simple. Here is a video of a 2CV being
       | dismantled and reassembled in 5 minutes by a few people:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo1Z5072xr4
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | That's a funny video, but I suspect a lot of the parts were
         | already disconnected, I've rebuilt the gearbox on one and
         | getting the engine out took a lot longer than that!
        
       | wafriedemann wrote:
       | Very cool. Would be even better if they included pricing.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | 2CV: 4500 dutch guilders, Dyane 4800, AMI 6250, GS 8000,
         | D-Special 12000, DS 17000.
         | 
         | For French Francs multiply by three or so, German Marks divide
         | by 1.10.
         | 
         | I was in a crash in a 2CV, it was my first car and after that
         | never got into another one. The damage was incredible given the
         | kind of accident it was.
        
           | Svip wrote:
           | I've been a big fan of Citroens for a long time, but I cannot
           | quite get the 2CV. I get it's cute, but I think the Dyane is
           | actually cuter. I can see how it lives up to Andre Citroen's
           | 1930s vision, but what has always truly captured me is the
           | engineering in the hydropneumatic suspension.
           | 
           | Fortunately, my first car was (and is) a Citroen DS 23. I
           | have not tried Citroen's new suspension (seems to be limited
           | so far to the kind of car, I don't particularly care for),
           | partly because I've grown disgruntled with Citroen since
           | about the time PSA (or whatever they are called now) started
           | the DS brand, but I really ought to.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | The 2CV makes perfect sense if you look at why it was
             | designed: 'an umbrella with wheels'.
             | 
             | The Dyane is much better as a car but it was also a bit
             | more expensive and people really loved the 2CV for its
             | lines and thought the Dyane to be too blockish.
             | 
             | My second car was a DS (a DS 21 to be precise), I loved it
             | and ended up touring the former east bloc with it (and
             | ended up living in Poland because of it).
        
               | Svip wrote:
               | Was your DS 21 pre- or post-1968? Basically, did it have
               | the red or the green fluid? I once drove mine from
               | Denmark to Provence and back again, it was an experience,
               | and not without problems (it started to leak around
               | Paris). I am not sure I would make that big of a trip in
               | it again (although, some part of me hopes I will). Since
               | those days, I've mostly made the big trips in my '98
               | Xantia.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Green. It was one of the latest made (1974).
               | 
               | I've done plenty of really long trips with it (many
               | thousands of km), but I did replace all of the accessible
               | high pressure LHM tubing at some point to get rid of the
               | periodical 'Arret!' light on the dash because the system
               | lost pressure. I can also tell you from experience that
               | trying to drive a DS without pressure is both an art and
               | a body building exercise at once.
               | 
               | Xantia is a great compromise between 'modern' and 'old
               | fashioned', a bit plasticy but the one I had I drove into
               | the ground over many 100's of thousands of km. The final
               | nail in that particular coffin was to lose the headgasket
               | somewhere between Munich and NL and just continuing the
               | trip, it even got decent fuel economy but it wouldn't
               | start up after being shut down and once we looked into
               | the engine it was declared a miracle that it made it all
               | the way back. Great car, all around and given the
               | distances covered ultra reliable.
               | 
               | The real problem in the DS model is the semi-automatic
               | gearbox which is super finicky regarding hydraulics
               | levels (you'll notice a ticking sound when it is trying
               | to engage and can't quite make it due to a lack of fluid,
               | you can temporarily fix that under the hood by forcibly
               | actuating it but driving it like that is really not
               | recommended. Nor is driving it when one of your drive
               | shafts breaks and you block up that side of the drive
               | train. Nice low engine revs though, we jokingly called it
               | 'economy mode'.
               | 
               | I also had an ID-19, a simpler but altogether far more
               | robust car.
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | The 2CV always seemed like a death trap to me. It could not
           | get approved in the USA for import; I'm guessing because of
           | safety regulations...although no Citroen cars were available
           | in the US at all.
        
             | Svip wrote:
             | Citroen sold cars in the US till around 1975, when the US
             | introduced regulations that essentially prohibited the
             | hydropneumatic suspension. Citroen even had US spec
             | versions of the DS and the SM for the US market.
             | 
             | I am not sure whether the 2CV was ever sold in the USA, but
             | it has definitely been imported. I think in the US, the
             | limit is 25 years before you can import a foreign car. I've
             | encountered plenty of 2CVs and Meharis in North America.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | I've seen a DS in Canada, but only once. (Toronto)
        
               | Svip wrote:
               | Speaking of Toronto, I once had the pleasure of being
               | driven around the city in a Mehari.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | I hope it was in summer :)
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | In US traffic an accident between your average 60's US
             | built car and a 2CV would amount to a death sentence for
             | the occupants of the 2CV.
        
             | masklinn wrote:
             | Afaik it could be sold in the US just fine (this is a car
             | created in 1948, safety regulations were not really a
             | thing).
             | 
             | The issue is that it could not be _sold_ : it was
             | particularly low-powered even for french cars of the time,
             | the original model barely reached 40 mph (out of a 9 hp
             | engine), and the later fastest models topped out around 70.
             | 
             | The 2CV had literally been designed to cross freshly
             | ploughed fields and drive on unpaved roads, it just was not
             | suitable for the interstate-expanding American market.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | I had one of the faster models but even those could not
               | reliably overtake a truck, chances are that when you
               | tried to come out ahead of the lee of the truck you'd be
               | blown back. More than once I had to sheepishly fall back
               | all 60 feet to go back behind and let others pass.
        
       | adhesive_wombat wrote:
       | Not car-specific but I do miss the days of huge paper catalogues.
       | The multi-volume RS ones were great, but the real joy was
       | something arcane like an optics, RF or connector company.
       | 
       | I was convinced to throw away my relatively small and likely
       | valueless but prized collection to well-intentioned
       | "decluttering" when I moved to my own house. The thing is, they
       | actually did spark joy, as Marie Kondo would say.
       | 
       | Also data books. Sure, electronic formats are objectively better
       | in nearly every sense from weight, dead tree count and Ctrl-F-
       | ability, but nothing says you know what you're about better than
       | a well-thumbed Philips data book.
        
         | Gordonjcp wrote:
         | I have a couple of volumes of RS data sheets sitting on the
         | shelf in my shed, that I cannot bear to throw out. Yours if you
         | want 'em.
        
       | jansan wrote:
       | Did the 2CV have a nickname in other countries? Here in Germany
       | it was called "the duck" ("die Ente"). Oooh, that suspension,
       | great memories :)
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Same here in NL 'de eend'. There's a whole raft of wordplay
         | jokes on that name.
         | 
         | As for the suspension, it's the only car that you can scrape
         | the mirrors with while it's still on all four wheels ;)
        
         | m2fkxy wrote:
         | in French, "la Deudeuche" [de-duhsh], for a very roughly
         | approximated anglicised pronunciation ([do.doS] is the proper
         | IPA, but I feel like it wouldn't resonate with everyone... at
         | least I would have no idea).
         | 
         | short for "deux chevaux", i.e. ... 2CV.
        
         | forinti wrote:
         | I heard a joke in Uruguay that they were called "pedo" (fart)
         | because only the owner could like it.
        
         | throwaway744678 wrote:
         | In french, it is pronounced "2 chevaux", as in "2 horses"
         | (horsepower), abbreviated "deuche", or "dodoche"
        
         | shrx wrote:
         | In Slovenia it's called "spacek" - a diminutive masculine form
         | of "spaka", i.e. "monstrosity".
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | The GSA had a beautiful dashboard
       | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL0xd9wXMAAdIm8.jpg
        
         | rz2k wrote:
         | That instrument control looks inspired by a Curta[1] mechanical
         | calculator.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curta
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | Definitely has the "futuristic 80s" look. I think that style
         | lasted into the mid 90s and then started becoming more subdued.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Yes, it pre-saged the dashboard of the later CX (the DS
         | replacement).
        
         | drewzero1 wrote:
         | That's glorious! The 70s and 80s were a wonderful and weird
         | time for automotive design. I see echoes of it in the interior
         | of my early 90s Saturn.
         | https://img.hmn.com/900x0/stories/2016/11/1991-Saturn-SL2-In...
        
         | ur-whale wrote:
         | Oooh, so star-trek-y. Very nice.
        
       | woobar wrote:
       | Ford catalogues from the same time -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32298524
        
       | YVoyiatzis wrote:
       | Ten or so years ago, being a Citroen enthusiast since I was a
       | kid, but never got around to owning one, I came across a Citroen
       | farm in New Hampshire--about a hundred miles from where I was at
       | the time, in Massachusetts.
       | 
       | He ended up convincing me to refrain from purchasing the D50 I
       | had my eye on--it was selling for less than three grand at the
       | time, not in mint condition, but with a weathered patina that
       | suited its faded buttery canary yellow just right. The Northeast,
       | he said, given its often extreme weather conditions in winter,
       | uses too much salt to weather driving conditions. I had to be
       | prepared to replacing its chassis in just a couple of years
       | thenceforth, were I to expose it to Boston's driving conditions.
       | 
       | I wanted that little car to be my every-day commuter here in
       | Boston, it would not have proven feasible to garage it over the
       | winter, so I had to let it go.
       | 
       | In retrospect, having driven in Boston all these years after the
       | fact, not ending up that little car proved a prudentchoice. Cudos
       | to the gentleman Citroen farmer for his sage advice.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | What is a D50? I know quite a few Citroen models but not that
         | one and google isn't helping.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | They should really make a modern retro version of the 2CV, like
       | they did with the MINI and VW Beatle. It's such an iconic car.
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | Wonder if they could make an electric version of the wagon? It
         | could be great as a short-haul utility/delivery vehicle...
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | Totally, it was so clever and revolutionary in many ways. I put
         | it on the same pedestal as you say with the Mini and Beetle.
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | The Mehari [1] (red car on front page) was an amazing car (4
       | wheel drive), that was used by the French military for a while
       | and later became very emblematic of the St-Tropez area of France
       | in the 60's and vacationing there.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_M%C3%A9hari
        
         | jonasdegendt wrote:
         | I just saw a yellow one today! The way they're cambered makes
         | them look so cool.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | They're still very much wanted and go for a large multiple of
         | their original new price. They are also probably one of the
         | lightest and most dangerous four wheeled production cars ever
         | manufactured.
        
           | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
           | It reminds me of Volkswagen "Thing".
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Compared to the beetle it's a tent on wheels. The beetle is
             | quite strong for a car designed in those days.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | Compared to a 2CV, I agree; but it was definitely less
               | substantial than the average American sedan back then.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Yes, that's true whatever came out of Detroit in those
               | days would classify as an armored vehicle now. The steel
               | on those things was a time and a half as thick as your
               | typical EU economy car. That showed up in the kerb weight
               | as well.
        
               | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
               | The Thing is not the Beetle. Different cars.
        
       | forinti wrote:
       | The Pallas DS was such a beautiful car, they should resurrect it
       | as an eletric car.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | There is a group in the UK converting them (sacrilege!):
         | 
         | https://www.electrogenic.co.uk/cars/electric-citroen-ds
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | The 2CV was the first and last car my mother owned that had a had
       | a hand crank start. I think we only bought it because of the
       | Tintin related marketing material. The carburettor controls were
       | front and centre, presumably for live adjusting the fuel richness
       | as you ascended a Pyrenean cirque. I saw the famous twin engined
       | version in Berlin a few years ago for a mere six figure euro
       | price tag.
        
       | janlukacs wrote:
       | How I miss the "old" internet. These fan made websites used to
       | show up in google serps ages ago. I've never ran into these
       | personal websites in the past 3+ years, no matter how deep I
       | search.
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | My Francophile artist dad, who was a terrible driver, had a sky
       | blue deux chevaux. He used to drop me off at school sometimes in
       | the morning (UK midlands).
       | 
       | For urban driving he typically drove in 2nd or 3rd gear at around
       | 23 mph which was very slow in a straight line and terrifying
       | around corners and roundabouts. I used to see ashen faced drivers
       | out of the passenger window trying to understand why his engine
       | was screaming and the car was lurching at such an extreme angle
       | around the roundabout lanes. He would typically have a car full
       | of stuff which would be rolling around on the floor and it wasn't
       | unusual be hit on the head with an easel or painting under
       | extreme braking evasions. Great cars, spent a lot of time in 2CVs
       | in France too, such character...
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | This has just reminded me that as a kid I used to nag my parents
       | to visit car dealerships and collect car brochures. My parents
       | were too risk averse to buy anything like a Citroen, but they
       | were clearly the most forward thinking company. I remember the
       | Citroen XM being the most futuristic car I'd ever read about, but
       | now the cheapest hatchback has far more advanced technology!
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | The cheapest hatchback still doesn't have that suspension
         | though.
        
           | Svip wrote:
           | Even in the 1990s, a Xantia would be a cheap way to buy a
           | luxury suspension. Still amazes me that my '74 DS and my '98
           | Xantia can use the same hydraulic fluid. Even the pressure
           | spheres are interchangeable, although not advisable.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | The Xantia probably has the best of the hydraulic
             | suspension systems that were ever on the market (including
             | MB, which is a ridiculously fragile system). The XM is more
             | comfy but the Xantia is far more reliable mostly because it
             | is a somewhat simpler system (cheaper car, so less
             | complexity = more profit but incidentally also more
             | reliability).
             | 
             | The very worst was the SM, which overcomplicated just about
             | everything. If you open the hood on one you'll have at
             | least six "WHY?"'s going through your head at once, the
             | kicker being the rotating shaft over the top of the engine
             | to drive a pump on the other side of the block.
        
       | classified wrote:
       | The presentation style of those catalogs is just wonderful. And
       | hose hippie colors! Today's presentation styles are mind-
       | numbingly dull in comparison.
        
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