[HN Gopher] Outside the safe operating space of a new planetary ...
___________________________________________________________________
Outside the safe operating space of a new planetary boundary for
PFAS
Author : rntn
Score : 72 points
Date : 2022-08-02 18:29 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pubs.acs.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (pubs.acs.org)
| downvotetruth wrote:
| Minimum of another 3 years before any (EU) expected regulatory
| progress https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/efforts-underway-in-
| euro... while everyone else continues to be guinea pigs.
| javert wrote:
| Does this mean it isn't safe to live right next to the ocean?
|
| I'm referring to the following sentence in the abstract:
|
| > Levels of PFAAs in atmospheric deposition are especially poorly
| reversible because of the high persistence of PFAAs and their
| ability to continuously cycle in the hydrosphere, including on
| sea spray aerosols emitted from the oceans.
| Phlarp wrote:
| https://www.semi.org/en/blogs/semi-news/fluorinated-chemical...
|
| Big tech has a big PFA problem
| ars wrote:
| Those at least can be contained, and hopefully reused, but at
| least disposed of properly.
|
| Ski Wax PFA is much worse.
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004565352...
| those are just left to be shed in the snow, and they don't
| vanish once they are in the snow.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Also a lot of lubricants in bicycle gear and some rainproof
| gear uses PFAS, which is again slowly rubbing off onto your
| skin or going airbone.
| orangepurple wrote:
| It's sad because PTFE is the best dry lubricant but you can
| get close with Tungsten Disulfide nanoparticles. Hexagonal
| boron nitride is a good bicycle lubricant additive too and
| it can actually photocatalytically degrade environmental
| PFAS!
|
| https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/ceramic-
| video/video-...
| staindk wrote:
| GORE-TEX materials had a PFAS problem but have been PFAS-
| free since 2012 or 2014 or so, if I recall correctly.
| jabl wrote:
| The Gore-Tex membrane itself is apparently(?) PFAS-free
| since some years, however Gore-Tex materials usually have
| a second waterproofing treatment (a surface coating
| called DWR, durable water repellent) which, drumroll,
| contains PFAS. Cheeky buggers, convincing people they had
| solved the problem years ago. ;)
|
| Apparently they have some improvement in the pipeline
| that will bring about really PFAS-free product in the
| next few years or so.
| https://saferchemicals.org/2021/09/30/gore-tex-
| manufacturer-...
| staindk wrote:
| Ah shit. Thanks for the link - good to know.
|
| Cheeky buggers indeed haha
| brnt wrote:
| PFAS-free usually means PFAS-lookalike AFAIK.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Same as the plastics marketing with the "BPA free" claim,
| they will just use some other Bisphenol and call it a
| day.
| mperham wrote:
| Can someone explain "planetary boundary" in this context? What
| does the first sentence mean?
| majormunky wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries
|
| "Planetary boundaries is a concept highlighting human-caused
| perturbations of Earth systems making them relevant in a way
| not accommodated by the environmental boundaries separating the
| three ages within the Holocene epoch."
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| "Planetary boundaries is a concept highlighting human-caused
| perturbations of Earth systems [...] The framework is based on
| scientific evidence that human actions, especially those of
| industrialized societies since the Industrial Revolution, have
| become the main driver of global environmental change.
| According to the framework, "transgressing one or more
| planetary boundaries may be deleterious or even catastrophic
| due to the risk of crossing thresholds that will trigger non-
| linear, abrupt environmental change within continental-scale to
| planetary-scale systems."[2]"
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries
|
| The first sentence suggests that the study's authors are
| concerned that PFAS and its similar cousins represent a non-
| linear, large-scale environmental threat.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Ah, so a boundary is between continuous "regimes" governed by
| a single behavior; crossing the boundary means moving into a
| different, as-yet unexplored regime.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| Indeed -- in this case, a large-scale diffusion of a very
| stable family of waterproofing chemicals into the, uh,
| global water cycle. The idea is that it's possible for
| human activity to fundamentally change the nature of some
| system whose behaviour we think of as stable and
| inviolable. Considering how goddamn important water is to
| basically everything in the biosphere, I think of it as
| more an eaten-by-a-grue "unexplored", rather than enticing-
| terra-nova, style of thing.
| erk__ wrote:
| In Denmark the talk have mostly been about PFAS contaminated
| meat. One of the first places a severe contamination was found
| was on a building used by the fire brigade for testing and cows
| were grassing there as well. Since then a lot of other places ha
| e been tested and many more have been declared as potential
| places.
|
| I think yesterday the news were about if it was safe to
| breastfeed while you may have heightened levels of it. The new
| guidelines was retracted because most of the scientists behind it
| disagreed with the conclusion based upon newer evidence. So it
| getting a reevaluation
| kurupt213 wrote:
| This is not good. Even if production completely stopped today,
| levels would continue to rise for years in the environment as the
| materials are washed away from our modern lives and
| infrastructure.
| ephbit wrote:
| > It is hypothesized that environmental contamination by per- and
| polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) defines a separate planetary
| boundary and that this boundary has been exceeded.
| zaroth wrote:
| The most "amusing" example of PFA use I've heard of is in
| waterproofing the compostable paper single-use food containers,
| and most ridiculous of all, paper straws.
|
| Talk about cutting off one's own nose.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33770693/
| rthomas6 wrote:
| Even worse: Dental floss. Oral-B Glide is made with it.
| zaroth wrote:
| Please say this isn't true...
|
| What's the point of an EPA guideline if we're literally
| flossing with it?
|
| This seems to be the study that first found an association
| between Oral-B flossing and higher levels of PFAS in the
| body;
|
| https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/636598
| Zamicol wrote:
| Just looked it up because of your comment. Plackers contain
| PFAS in the form of PTFE (Teflon). I play with those in my
| mouth all the time. Holy cow.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| > While the plastic straws had no measurable PFAS, 21 PFAS were
| detected in the paper and other plant-based straws
|
| Wow. That's evil.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| well, otherwise they disintegrate immediately. Of course some
| people pointed this out up front when banning straws was
| first proposed.
| i_am_proteus wrote:
| If only there were some natural plant-based material that
| could be used as a straw... perhaps a byproduct of cereal
| cultivation.
| sillystuff wrote:
| Sibling comment mentions using the stems of grain crops as
| natural drinking straws. This was done, in the past, and is
| the origin of the word "straws" for the modern plastic
| variety.
|
| Historically, straws were also made from waxed paper.
|
| The issue isn't that plastic straws were banned, it is that
| plastic straws were banned and no additional guidance was
| provided e.g., mandating paper straws with natural wax
| coatings. This combined with corporate greed led to
| companies putting out the most profitable product within
| constraints of the law-- health and environmental safety be
| damned.
|
| The first paragraph of the following article describes both
| types of historical drinking straws:
|
| https://www.encyclopedia.com/manufacturing/news-wires-
| white-...
|
| edit: clarity
| ch4s3 wrote:
| Waxed straws used paraffin which is made from petroleum
| anyway, and they still get soaked through and collapse
| like the shitty PFAS coated straws. I know because
| they're still made and I've used one, and the attic you
| posted mentions that draw back.
|
| Straws made from plant stalks simply aren't suited to
| mass distribution. They aren't uniform, can't easily be
| sanitized before packaging, they're fragile, and still
| leak and get soaked.
|
| The problem isn't "corporate greed" it's that there
| aren't good alternatives to plastic for disposable
| straws.
| [deleted]
| ars wrote:
| Yup, I've heard the same. I refuse to use paper straws as a
| result.
| mturmon wrote:
| Another disastrous externality. Cheap to produce, hard to contain
| after it's out there.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| We alway like to reference the EU as regulatory example. But in
| this case despite the :
|
| - Ample evidence of health hazard (with seeping of PFAS into
| ground water) - Temporary shutdowns - Environmental fines
|
| both 3M factories are still very much in operation:
|
| Zwijndrecht, Belgium Dordrecht, Netherlands
| yrgulation wrote:
| EU regulation is mainly a means to protect the eu's internal
| market. For instance you cant buy vehicles made in america due
| to prohibitive duties because they dont meet euro requirements.
| But you can buy highly polluting german vehicles, no problem.
| Easiest way to restrict goods without explicitly doing so.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-08-02 23:00 UTC)