[HN Gopher] North Korean Tactics (2020) [pdf]
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       North Korean Tactics (2020) [pdf]
        
       Author : openasocket
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2022-08-02 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (irp.fas.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (irp.fas.org)
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | page 1-12 is...generous.
       | 
       | "Due to the United States' ability to overwhelm almost any
       | opponent with technology and firepower..."
       | 
       | with the exception of Iraq, afghanistan, korea, cuba, and vietnam
       | at no real point in these battles was our technological
       | sophistication or "firepower" a decisive capability that led to a
       | victory. in fact in afghanistan during the last six days of
       | conflict our exodus led to perhaps the largest single _transfer_
       | of sixth generation advanced western warfighting technologies to
       | an enemy in the history of armed conflict. the Taliban had a
       | blackhawk helicopter over the city as a command presence in _less
       | than a day._
       | 
       | the entire book also neglects to highlight a real point of
       | contention: the US never formally declared any end of hostility
       | to North Korea.
       | 
       | again in 1-16
       | 
       | "To deter any foe from attacking, the country has threatened the
       | use of nuclear weapons against South Korea, Japan, or any
       | reachable U.S. military facility in Asia"
       | 
       | the 2020 document neglects to mention North Koreas ICBM system
       | can now successfully reach most targets in the United States, so
       | any real effort toward regime change is completely off the table.
       | https://www.popsci.com/north-koreas-new-icbms-can-reach-most...
        
         | simonh wrote:
         | > the US never formally declared any end of hostility to North
         | Korea.
         | 
         | There's no reason they should. The US never declared any
         | hostilities with North Korea, and North Korea never declared
         | any hostilities formally with anyone either. US forces were the
         | major participant in a United Nations mandated intervention, in
         | response to North Korean forces crossing the border, so the US
         | as a nation was technically never directly a participant in the
         | conflict.
         | 
         | If anyone was going to declare anything in that regard, it
         | would be the United Nations. The armistice agreement was signed
         | by two US generals, true, but they did so on behalf of the
         | United Nations Command, not the United States.
        
         | legalcorrection wrote:
         | The US had the military might to extract total submission from
         | the populations of those countries. Anytime someone attacks
         | your troops, kill them and their family and raze their
         | neighborhood/town. But that would obviously be at odds with
         | long term and broader goals.
        
           | openasocket wrote:
           | The method of harsh reprisals and collective punishment,
           | besides being morally bankrupt, actually has a pretty bad
           | track record. The Nazi's in occupied Yugoslavia, among other
           | places, had a policy of executing 100 random civilians for
           | every German soldier killed. But this had the exact opposite
           | impact on the resistance movement, actually increasing
           | resistance sentiment.
        
             | bostonsre wrote:
             | Would be interesting to compare the nazi methodology with
             | the Russian way of war in chechnya. Russia seemed to get
             | submission through not very nice means.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | They both tended to use locals to do their dirty work.
               | For example in Chechnya they didn't use many "Slavic"
               | Russians but mostly Allies from Chechnya or ex-republics
               | of the CCCP. The red nazis also recruited locals.
        
         | pdabbadabba wrote:
         | > page 1-12 is...generous.
         | 
         | The sentence you are criticizing is, itself, a direct
         | acknowledgement of the fact that simply "overwhelming" an
         | adversary with technology and firepower is not sufficient for
         | victory. The full sentence reads "Due to the United States'
         | ability to overwhelm almost any opponent with technology and
         | firepower, the KPA emphasizes asymmetric warfare in conjunction
         | with large numbers of SOF units"--much like the tactics
         | employed by the U.S.'s adversaries in Iraq, Afghanistan, and
         | Vietnam
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > with the exception of Iraq, afghanistan, korea, cuba, and
         | vietnam at no real point in these battles was our technological
         | sophistication or "firepower" a decisive capability that led to
         | a victory.
         | 
         | So? In Iraq, at least, it led to the rapid collapse of the
         | Iraqi government and military and execution of its leaders.
         | North Korea _doesn 't care_ if the US ultimately succeeds in
         | meeting its goals, it cares if the North Korean state is
         | defeated.
         | 
         | > the Taliban had a blackhawk helicopter over the city as a
         | command presence in _less than a day_.
         | 
         | So? The real question is: is it still flying?
         | 
         | IIRC, the US backed government of Afghanistan had trouble
         | keeping its own aircraft flying without support from Western
         | maintenance contractors. I highly doubt the Taliban will do
         | better, especially since it's cut off from a supply of spare
         | parts.
        
         | dudyr5fjo wrote:
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | You skipped the end of that first sentence:
         | 
         | > Due to the United States' ability to overwhelm almost any
         | opponent with technology and firepower, _the KPA emphasizes
         | asymmetric warfare in conjunction with large numbers of SOF
         | units._ [emphasis mine]
         | 
         | Which seems to imply that NK is, indeed, preparing for
         | something more like Vietnam, Afghanistan, or the second Iraq
         | war, or at least whoever prepared this believes they are.
        
         | mechanical_bear wrote:
         | Ability and Political Will are two different things.
        
         | PostOnce wrote:
         | There seem to be a few misconceptions or oversights here:
         | 
         | The US military can essentially break almost any government
         | instantly, insurgency is a different beast. That's no mystery.
         | 
         | North Korean ICBMs can theoretically reach America in the same
         | way that I can theoretically walk into the Kremlin and choke
         | Putin to death with my bare hands.
         | 
         | In practice, it's unlikely. There are preventive measures in
         | place.
         | 
         | As for the Taliban getting ahold of an ancient helicopter, I
         | don't think it's a major concern. You may have seen that
         | anything of real value was first destroyed, as is standard
         | practice.
         | 
         | The US is not going to declare an end to hostility with North
         | Korea and has no reason to and many reasons not to.
        
       | ARandomerDude wrote:
       | > Songbun is a three-tier class system divided into 51 categories
       | that was created by the Kim regime to isolate and control
       | perceived internal political threats. It is very difficult to
       | move up even from one category to the next-higher category, but
       | it is very easy to move downward. Even an elite person living in
       | Pyongyang can commit an infraction and be exiled to the country
       | with a much lower songbun. Every person above the age of 17 in
       | North Korea has a file maintained by the government that contains
       | the individual's songbun.
       | 
       | Sad: This type of social credit score system seems pervasive and
       | will no doubt be here soon.
       | 
       | Doubly sad: many of the FAANGers here on HN will bring it about.
        
         | Mizza wrote:
         | Songbun is actually a good word we can use for it as it creeps
         | into western society.
        
       | Mizza wrote:
       | Section 1-21 is interesting to me right now as I'm currently
       | listening to season 3 of the Blowback podcast and this season is
       | all about the Korean War. Their history of events is very
       | different than how it is presented here.
        
       | horns4lyfe wrote:
       | Cool, another army manual that no Soldier will read. In all
       | seriousness, though, sounds really interesting
        
         | omginternets wrote:
         | Enlistees? No. Officers? Yeah, absolutely.
        
         | UberFly wrote:
         | Sure they do depending on their job/rank. This is a case where
         | RTFM might actually severely matter to those you work with.
        
         | orangepurple wrote:
         | Officers, warrant officers, and noncommissioned officers (NCO)
         | study these in depth on the job depending on their U.S. Army
         | Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) and rank.
        
       | openasocket wrote:
       | Note for those reading this: I'm pretty sure the diagrams in the
       | first part of Chapter 6 are all mislabeled. The diagram labeled
       | as an encirclement maneuver is really a penetration maneuver, the
       | penetration maneuver diagram is really of a thrust maneuver, etc.
        
       | jgbmlg wrote:
       | The Songbun caste system is the weakness that renders the North
       | Korean society inherently unstable. The most able members of the
       | society are discriminated against the most. And the more powerful
       | and resource consuming "Core" members are not selected on the
       | basis of merit. I think that there is historical precedent for
       | the political principle that Aristocracy will eventually be
       | replaced by meritocracy, but there may be revolutionary
       | instability first.
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-02 23:00 UTC)