[HN Gopher] Asus Zenbook 17 Fold OLED
___________________________________________________________________
Asus Zenbook 17 Fold OLED
Author : lnyan
Score : 479 points
Date : 2022-08-05 10:17 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.asus.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.asus.com)
| resoluteteeth wrote:
| Using a touch screen as a keyboard when it's folded in laptop
| mode just looks painful.
|
| If the technical issues could be ironed out, folding phones would
| seem to make a lot of sense theoretically since it would be great
| a device that's small in your pocket but has more screen real
| estate when you're using, but this device doesn't seem like it
| would be that pleasant to use even if it worked perfectly.
| RektBoy wrote:
| Who TF needs this? And how much is the repair?
| noobermin wrote:
| I think the only thing about foldable screens is eventually the
| crease does not iron out and is part of the screen permanently,
| meaning likely you'll have to live with the crease eventually.
|
| I've seen many Samsung foldable screens that are display units at
| the store, that crease is pretty worn out after a few months to a
| year.
| falcor84 wrote:
| I'd be interested in official mean-time-to-crease stats. If
| it's indeed a year, I think it's still very worthwhile.
|
| Also, would it be economic to replace the panel after it
| creases?
| viraptor wrote:
| Another interesting point is - does the smartphone experience
| translate to the laptops. We usually open the phone tens of
| times a day. The laptop screen will get much less movement.
| galogon wrote:
| Apple Silicon killed Windows laptops. Why go back to loud fans
| and so much worse battery life?
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Loud fans? Not heard one of those for years on a Windows
| laptop.
| quickaskq wrote:
| This reminds me... what ever happened to Microsoft's Surface Neo?
| This is a very similar idea, especially with the external
| keyboard
| Lio wrote:
| I'd be really excited if they offer this as part of their
| ZenScreen portable monitor range.
|
| They seem to be currently mostly 1080p but a folding 17" or
| larger HiDPI screen for an existing laptop would be brilliant.
|
| I generally like smaller laptops like the MacBook Air or XPS 13.
| I could see me using a tri-fold ZenScreen in hotel room and then
| just the laptop on a plane/train tray table.
|
| https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ZenScreen/
| Terretta wrote:
| > _smaller laptops like the Macbook Air_
|
| iPad Pro 12.9" as external second hidpi/retina monitor for
| Macbook is remarkable in three modes
|
| - USB-C to USB-C for all day powered zero latency extended
| desktop
|
| - WiFi for cable free extended desktop
|
| - keyboard mouse sharing (by pushing your Macbook cursor
| against the side of your laptop screen by the iPad, till it
| "pops" onto the iPad) for seamlessly running Macbook apps and
| iPad apps side by side using your main keyboard/mouse, able to
| not just cut and paste but drag and drop (!!!) between the two
| devices and OSes.
|
| And then just the iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard (and its
| trackpad) on the plane/train tray table (hinge design sets the
| screen in from the hinge, allowing use in shallower depths like
| the tray tables).
| breakfastduck wrote:
| Also considerably more expensive than a monitor.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| And considerably worse in every way, especially compared to
| modern OLEDs and high refresh rate LCDs.
| ddalex wrote:
| I've been pitching for a while hinged screens, like double
| laptop screen that unfolds a second same-size screen above the
| first. The fold seems like a nice touch, if this would come as
| a separate portable monitor I'd buy it in a pinch.
| mandeepj wrote:
| Great idea! A lot of people still WFH, I guess its adoption would
| take some time to take off, if that was not case. Of course, it
| all depends if the product itself takes on the positive
| trajectory.
| fleddr wrote:
| Admittedly, An interesting idea for the very mobile user.
|
| As for mainstream usage, horrible in my view. A 12.5" laptop, who
| works on this? Ants? Even the "full fledged" desktop experience
| is 17". A size I considered too tiny for ergonomic work 2 decades
| ago. Windows in touch mode...meh.
|
| Given that it's main value is in ultra mobile use, it's weird to
| flex all kinds of gimmicky features like audio. As if it's some
| kind of "creator" laptop, which it isn't.
|
| It's typical of Asus, a showcase laptop throwing lots of stuff at
| the wall.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| No pricing yet. Guesses out there from $1599 to PS2000 to $3999.
| pnut wrote:
| I find this potentially intriguing for my use case, which is 95%
| working from home in a fixed office arrangement.
|
| Under those circumstances, if this can drive two external
| monitors, I could have the best of both worlds- a big third
| monitor for my primary work situation, but then it's the same
| device but mobile when I need to go into the office etc.
| nordsieck wrote:
| IMO, this isn't great.
|
| It's competing with laptop + USB monitors that are optimized for
| portability. That setup is a little less elegant, but it's less
| expensive and it's composed of reliable components. And, you can
| easily use the stand-alone laptop in cramped quarters like on a
| bus/airplane.
|
| The only real downside is, it's a little less compact compared to
| the Asus design.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| This could be such an enormous game changing format. What an
| exciting time this is.
|
| For me, the idea of being able to lift up the keyboard and reveal
| a second screen is just crazy exciting. Fluidity in format feels
| like the next great leap in mobile computing.
|
| To that end, I wonder we haven't yet seen devices without
| multiple detachable wireless screens? I would love to detach a
| screen off the back of my MacBook -- when I had space to -- and
| have an impromptu second display.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Folding tech for phones wasn't quite as interesting, just a small
| cherry on top of something we already accommodate. Fine.
|
| But folding tech for 17" screens is amazing because of how
| massive those screens are. They are completely unwieldy in the
| normal unfolding form factor, unlikely to fit in your backpack.
| arthurcolle wrote:
| How many truckloads of money is this?
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| j3th9n wrote:
| <insert but why meme>
| can16358p wrote:
| But what is the software support for the folding screen? The
| hardware is cool and assuming it doesn't break in a few months, I
| see the lack of much software support as the biggesr adoption
| roadblocker.
|
| I don't think just treating it as one big screen or two/three
| separate screens without any more context would be enough.
| tootie wrote:
| I don't see why not. I don't think it folds to arbitrary
| configurations. It will just toggle between two different
| rectangles. Modern PCs handle plugging and unplugging external
| monitors no problem
| can16358p wrote:
| It's about the context.
|
| Modern PCs have an external monitor in addition to the main
| one just to extend the area. This one, because of its
| placement especially in the semi-folded form, would unlikely
| to be used just like a normal display, because of their
| position and rotation relative to the user, that one sees in
| front of their eyes, so additional software measures would be
| needed to make use of that space efficiently to, say (making
| it up), keep app windows on the main area but move shortcuts,
| desktop items, widgets to the bottom area etc.
| bradgranath wrote:
| Why do people want foldy screens so bad? I get that they fit in
| your pocket better, but reading or viewing images through the
| crease looks awful.
| galaxyLogic wrote:
| Can I have two of these displays connected to a single "laptop" ?
| mmanfrin wrote:
| Cool design, but absolutely never buying an Asus product again.
| _Every single_ product I 've bought from them (router,
| motherboard, monitor, etc) has broken, and their support system
| is an absolute nightmare.
| WilTimSon wrote:
| > Every single product I've bought from them (router,
| motherboard, monitor, etc) has broken
|
| Has broken in what time frame? Because if it breaks within the
| first year or so, I'd understand it, but tech
| breaking/malfunctioning after the standard warranty time
| expires is pretty common in my experience. I've only ever
| bought one laptop from Asus but it served me well enough for 4
| years, until the battery went haywire and ballooned to thrice
| its size.
| lizardactivist wrote:
| That seems very strange, in particular since you appear to
| suggest you bought so many of them. I mean, what are the odds?
|
| I think you're simply using them wrong or handling them
| carelessly.
| franga2000 wrote:
| In what situation would you need the manufacturer's support?
| Asus doesn't sell direct to consumer, so issues while still
| under warranty are handled by the store you bought it from.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| the store is not an expert in the electronics inside the
| device, or the firmware that runs on it, so they're incapable
| of providing any meaningful support
| fezfight wrote:
| I love how these companies advertise Windows 11 Pro as a feature.
| As if anyone would be surprised or excited for what is
| effectively the status quo. It'd be like being surprised or
| excited that it was black.
|
| Its just kinda funny. Now if it was certified to run OSX, Linux,
| Beos, or Temple OS, or something, now THAT would be a selling
| point.
| Multicomp wrote:
| I've been wanting a Microsoft Courier since they first did that
| concept video - I'm getting one of these Asus ones even if it is
| very early days. This Asus has a better setup than the X1 fold,
| I've saved up the cash, I want one.
|
| The current ultimate OneNote device!
| suction wrote:
| As with most Asia-led "novelty" features on electronic devices,
| this looks like a "because we can" feature rather than a "because
| it's useful" feature.
| jmartrican wrote:
| I'm a programmer that spends a lot of time programming on my
| laptop without an extra screen. I use 15" laptops exclusively
| because it has a decent balance between screen size and
| portability. But when coding (and a lot of coding is done over
| Zoom where folks with bigger screens are sharing their desktops)
| every little bit of real-estate counts. So the idea of having a
| 17" in a more portable form factor, and weight is very
| intriguing. Like its crazy to think a 17" laptop can be under 4
| lbs (3.3 lbs to be exact).
| Ayesh wrote:
| If it's pair programming or collaborative programming you are
| after, I'd suggest Code With Me on latest Jetbrains IDEs. The
| code is E2E encrypted over Jetbrains servers, or you can even
| self-host. Makes presentations, lessons a breeze too.
| samstave wrote:
| I HIGHLY recommend you grab a couple of these: AOC USB Screens
| [0]. They are cheap, LIGHT, and great. I have two of them with
| my also 15" Omen laptop.[1] So I have a full size
| gaming/workstation machine, and TWO external screens, at 1920
| while the machine is 2500 resolution... and ALL of this fits in
| my backpack. and is super light.
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/AOC-I1659FWUX-USB-Powered-
| Portable-19...
|
| [1] https://i.imgur.com/MJNWvif.jpg
|
| (Also, I am designing a bracket using the VESA mount screws on
| the back of the screens to attach them to the small camera
| tripods I have which are also very light and fit in backpack -
| this way, I can mount one screen behind the laptop, and have
| that screen directly above my laptop screen, and then another
| to the side.)
| pantulis wrote:
| This should be great for reading sheet music!!
| winrid wrote:
| Finally, I can feel like I'm in Westworld.
| Havoc wrote:
| Looks neat. I'm curious why its trending so high on hn though?
|
| Out of the first 20ish comments a single one expresses a desire
| to get one
| upupandup wrote:
| I guess the same reason I haven't bought anything from Amazon
| in the past 4 month. Fatigue and what I have serves a purpose.
|
| I can't be the only one who cut back on spending.
| ge96 wrote:
| This is something I'd always thought about eg. "why not have both
| halves be screens". Now here it is. Will be interesting how it's
| like typing on a piece of glass, we do it on a phone. I'll try it
| one day but that'll be when they're not $2K each or whatever
| price. Which I don't buy brand new laptops or $1K phones to begin
| with so nothing against this in particular.
|
| Although I imagine buying something like this used is probably
| not a good idea. (wear tear)
| rowanG077 wrote:
| Honestly I don't get the hate. I would love this form factor. I
| used a Surface Pro for years and loved it. This looks to be
| superiour in every way.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Where do I buy it?
| some_bool wrote:
| My username says it all about this product
| [deleted]
| iasay wrote:
| Expensive luxury land fill like all foldable displays currently
| are. This takes it to the extreme. I am not impressed. We should
| be building for sustainability at this stage of our existence and
| this is exactly the opposite of it.
|
| Plus it runs the worst touch based operating system on the
| market.
| blocked_again wrote:
| Sustainability issues will never be fixed by companies building
| for sustainability.
|
| Vast majority of the world population don't give a shit about
| sustainability.
|
| Consumers always want to improve their life by spending as
| little money as possible.
|
| This means companies are being pushed to build more efficient
| things.
|
| For example Electric cars can travel much longer than
| traditional cars for the same cost of fuel.
|
| More efficient means, less pollution.
|
| Humans will fix sustainability issues automatically.
|
| But it would never be by building products whose core service
| offering is sustainability.
| piva00 wrote:
| > This means companies are being pushed to build more
| efficient things.
|
| No, this means companies are being pushed to build the least
| expensive things, efficiency is just coincidental in some
| cases.
|
| > Humans will fix sustainability issues automatically.
|
| That depends, if you mean "eventually" I can somewhat agree
| with the argument but that's just a wishful thinking thought
| exercise. Eventually sustainability issues will be fixed
| because if not everyone will eventually die from the lack of
| resources, doesn't mean that the fixes are timely or with the
| least suffering that we as a species could be capable of.
| blocked_again wrote:
| > No, this means companies are being pushed to build the
| least expensive things
|
| Least expensive literally translate to more efficeny. To
| build cheaper things you need to spend less on electricity
| for manufacturing, less on transport (fuel), less on labor
| etc. Which means more efficeny.
|
| > Eventually sustainability issues will be fixed because if
| not everyone will eventually die from the lack of
| resources, doesn't mean that the fixes are timely or with
| the least suffering that we as a species could be capable
|
| Sure. But this also assumes we are on the verge of
| collapsing because of sustainability issues. We don't know
| that. This also assumes somehow if we start pushing on
| sustainability now we are going to overcome that. We don't
| know that.
| piva00 wrote:
| > Least expensive literally translate to more efficeny.
| To build cheaper things you need to spend less on
| electricity for manufacturing, less on transport (fuel),
| less on labor etc. Which means more efficeny.
|
| You are just considering the production aspect of
| efficiency. Cheaper is not higher quality, cheaper goods
| have a higher rate of failure, higher rate of failure
| means increased consumption which pushes production up.
| More efficient and cheaper production with better quality
| definitely falls into your argument, anything else
| becomes highly variable if it will translate, ultimately,
| to better efficiency of resource usage overall.
|
| > Sure. But this also assumes we are on the verge of
| collapsing because of sustainability issues. We don't
| know that. This also assumes somehow if we start pushing
| on sustainability now we are going to overcome that. We
| don't know that.
|
| Why on the verge? I'm using the same time-scale as you
| did: eventually, which in mathematical terms would mean a
| function with its time component using a limit
| approaching infinity. Eventually automatically solving
| sustainability because "market forces" push towards
| efficiency doesn't mean that we should just accept that
| as a rule and that it's the best course of action given
| that we can actively model and predict if we should and
| could be more efficient and sustainable.
|
| What's the argument against focusing on sustainability
| first? Hampering innovation and some warped sense of
| progress?
| blocked_again wrote:
| Because sustainability is an unquantifiable word that
| doesn't mean anything. Please explain sustainability
|
| Also cheaper doesn't mean it have to be low quality.
|
| Computers used to be unaffordable to vast majority of
| people and companies 50 years back. Now everyone has one
| in their pocket.
| [deleted]
| ekianjo wrote:
| it comes with a keyboard.
| iasay wrote:
| I bought a keyboard for my iPad too. I'm not sure what your
| point is?
| eklavya wrote:
| The point is that the iPadOS is not designed to be used
| with a keyboard but windows is. Having a touchscreen on
| this laptop is a useful/useless add on and not the primary
| feature.
| suction wrote:
| You should catch up with the developments of iPad OS. It
| works very well with keyboards nowadays. Since a few
| years, actually.
| ansgri wrote:
| It, uhm, works with a keyboard. While touch-based UX is
| nearly flawless, there are some weird delays, e.g. when
| switching keyboard layout (you may not know of this
| problem if your language uses Latin script) -- very
| annoying since it tends to swallow characters.
| suction wrote:
| Uhm, I have the iPad Pro 12" and that "magic" Apple
| keyboard cover (that crazy expensive one) and use
| Japanese, English, German as my input languages,
| switching often. Zero lag whatsoever.
| ansgri wrote:
| Good, maybe it was related to the Logitech keyboard. How
| do you switch layouts, cmd+space? It opened a small
| window that blocked all input until it auto-closed half a
| second later.
| iasay wrote:
| Actually iPadOS is very much designed to use a keyboard.
| A mouse too. Not a lot of people seem to realise that...
| jxi wrote:
| sz4kerto wrote:
| (I own iOS devices and a M1 MBP.)
|
| Windows 11's window management is brilliant, nothing
| comes close out of the box (of course i3/sway/etc. can be
| customized to match it). Windows tablets as laptops are
| generally more usable than iPads as laptops due to stuff
| like multi-user support, filesystem access and much
| better window management. As tablets (media consumption +
| creative work like drawing) iPads are better.
|
| This foldable device can be a nice primary machine while
| an iPad can't replace a laptop for most users. Macbooks
| are of course fine devices, but I think folding can
| become a nice feature when it matures.
| tigrezno wrote:
| I suspect that if Apple released this, this site would be
| cheering for it.
| suction wrote:
| Only because Apple's track record so far is a lot better than
| Asus' or other OEMs in terms of not adding novelty or
| gadget-y features to their pro products.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| No, but they did take away lots of important features from
| their pro products purely for novelty. Things like ports,
| for instance.
| suction wrote:
| Yep, and they added them back in and the current M1
| MacBook Pros are their best yet.
| xgbi wrote:
| Did you forget the touchbar or the "low travel keys" that
| break after a few months?
|
| I feel apple lost the edge on innovation on the desktop
| space a long time ago.
| rowanG077 wrote:
| What novelty features did Asus do? Apple did touchbar, the
| thinnest keyboard on earth, a super underpowered 12 inch
| MacBook, a screen with an iphone build in. And that is only
| the last few years.
| suction wrote:
| In Asia I saw Asus laptops with "tribal tattoos"
| decoration on the shell. That sort of "novelty".
| rowanG077 wrote:
| I mean there also (or used to be) a golden iphone.
| theturtletalks wrote:
| Apple has mastered the second mover advantage. They let all
| the other companies blow money on R&D and educating users
| while they simply observe the pain points. Then, they swoop
| in a few years later and reap the benefits.
| _ph_ wrote:
| To be fair, they don't just "reap the benefits". They are
| working hard at improving new technology until it is
| really a product. They have many prototypes long before
| the first product, but don't end up selling those
| prototypes.
| iasay wrote:
| That's a terrible straw man. There is universal dislike for
| bad engineering. Butterfly keyboards and touch bar for
| example...
| nottorp wrote:
| Yep. Fuck the butterfly keyboard and touch bar. But I'll
| still get an Apple laptop next time I get a new device
| because it's the least annoying when they don't let Ive run
| amok.
| monkey_monkey wrote:
| I suspect that says more about your own innate biases than it
| says about the users of this site.
| snarfy wrote:
| It might be a small minority but there are still quite a
| few Apple apologists on this site. That's fandom for you.
| Tech is notorious for it.
| suction wrote:
| I bet you've heard the saying "in the land of the blind,
| the one-eyed man is king" . That's what Apple is. You can
| be a "fan" of the one-eyed man without believing
| everything he makes or says is awesome.
| monkey_monkey wrote:
| I think most people are aware of fandoms and that some
| people will blindly support something, but that's very
| different from saying "this site would be cheering for
| it".
| thedrbrian wrote:
| Apple wouldn't release it though. They'd take one look at the
| massive crease in the middle of the screen and say "no".
| varispeed wrote:
| At least it would be more energy efficient...
| cr3ative wrote:
| I can't help but see folding screens as a limited-life product.
| Sure, laptops only last, usefully, about 6 years anyway, but it's
| such an obvious wear spot which would cripple the entire device.
|
| Thanks, but no thanks.
| sz4kerto wrote:
| Early adopters (both on the user and the production side) are
| very much required to get to something usable eventually.
| scrollaway wrote:
| Isn't the fold on current laptops a weak spot now? I've had
| laptops die to that.
|
| I get it's tempting to say this will be worse but, will it? I
| don't think it's fair to say this immediately...
| iasay wrote:
| Only if you buy bottom end crap and beat it around. Lenovo /
| Apple hinges are pretty good.
|
| Foldable displays have several million times more parts being
| folded...
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| I just spent a pleasant hour fixing a friend's Lenovo
| hinge. Disassemble, cyanoacrylate adhesive, reduce hinge
| tension, wait/beer, reassemble.
|
| Unimaginably poor design detail and QA on the tension
| setting. Many of this and other Yoga models junked on
| account of it. Easy enough repair though.
| iasay wrote:
| The Yogas are ass end landfill built to a price point.
| You get what you pay for.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Looked like it. PEM studs into plastic and an over-
| tensioned hinge. What did they think was going to happen?
| It sure was no X220.
| Foobar8568 wrote:
| I have a Lenovo x1c6 with one of the shittier fan design
| you can make and Lenovo support did shit. My next laptop
| will be an Apple one, no doubt.
| Tepix wrote:
| It's advertised as being stress tested with 30,000 folds. That
| should last quite a bit longer than 6 years for most people.
| iasay wrote:
| That figure doesn't make sense other than from a marketing
| perspective. It is missing all the important engineering
| questions...
|
| How many did they test?
|
| What's the standard deviation?
|
| What does the bell curve look like?
|
| What are the test conditions?
|
| What happens when you put this in the hands of an average
| user who does not conform to the test conditions?
| ddalex wrote:
| Please show me this data from any other manufacturer...
| take Apple, do they put out how many drops they test their
| latest iPhone, the one that they advertise doesn't need a
| cover? The standard deviation, Bell curve?
|
| Nobody cares about this - what people care about is: What
| happens when this breaks ? If Asus offers good warranty on
| it, why does it matter when it breaks??
| iasay wrote:
| If it breaks every month and takes them two months to
| repair it each time then it's a problem.
| ddalex wrote:
| But there is no indication that it breaks every month,
| and there is a strong indication that it breaks less ten
| once every 6 years. Also there is literally no indication
| that it takes 2 months to repair.
|
| What I am seeing from you is just negative comments about
| this technology, literally based on assumption and made-
| up standards that are not common in the industry.
| iasay wrote:
| Have you dealt with an Asus RMA before? I have. I was
| being kind with the 2 months...
| ddalex wrote:
| Ah, just say that you have a personal issue with Asus,
| not that a product idea is shit and should not be done.
| iasay wrote:
| The product would be shit if apple did it too.
|
| I have a professional issue with Asus support having
| dealt with them from a large corp.
|
| I can isolate the two factors but understand the risks
| are combined.
|
| That's just logic.
| sz4kerto wrote:
| Samsung's recent foldable phones (e.g. Galaxy Z Fold 3) are
| proving to be quite reliable, the crease is still visible
| to some extent but they don't tend to break.
| iasay wrote:
| Call me when they're as durable as a decent modern
| iPhone...
| bizzleDawg wrote:
| When I read about the 30,000 cycles, I can't help but picture
| a mechanism which performs a "perfect" opening/closing cycle
| with equal force distribution.
|
| How many cycles would that translate to when being
| opened/closed on the go by pulling on a corner? Or being used
| by a toddler?
| adrianN wrote:
| I've had a couple of laptops where the mechanical hinges
| became wonky after a couple of years. Intuitively they should
| be a lot sturdier than a folding screen, but perhaps
| intuition is misleading.
| chrismorgan wrote:
| Micro-USB plugs are supposed to be designed for a minimum
| rated lifetime of 10,000 cycles of insertion and removal. My
| experience has not had one last even 2,000 cycles before
| becoming unreliable, even for cables that have _always_ been
| used in ideal circumstances (gently plugged in, resting on a
| table). As for ones where the device gets used while plugged
| in, moved around, occasional lateral forces on the plug,
| well, they're generally just about completely useless before
| 2,000 cycles.
|
| USB-C plugs are supposed to be 10,000 cycles too. The A-to-C
| cable that came with my PinePhone was dead at the C plug end
| within four months of daily usage with occasional somewhat-
| stronger-than-ideal-but-not-all-that-excessive forces being
| applied. A couple of other cables haven't had issues so far.
|
| When they say 30,000 here, I'd be surprised to get 3,000
| before significant problems are apparent, and wouldn't be
| surprised if I failed to get _300_. I like the idea and want
| it to work, but don't expect it to just yet. I wish they'd
| focus their effort on having two separate screens with a
| small gap between them rather than trying to straddle the
| hinge, because that would be somewhere between almost as good
| and slightly better, and _much_ more likely to be reliable.
|
| This is still early tech. Early generations of mechanically-
| difficult things are generally _terrible_. I can speak to the
| unreliability of the Surface Book hinge: I had four units (19
| months with moderate issues by the end (mild battery
| pillowage, screen yellowing, several split keycaps) that led
| to warranty replacement; 8 months then battery 2
| spontaneously died; roughly DOA; two years before battery 1
| died and it was out of warranty and after only a little more
| use it's now pretty much a brick, can't even stay powered on
| and significant pillowage on both batteries), and their base
| /clipboard, base/power and clipboard/power connections (which
| were basically the same interface) always became not
| _completely_ reliable well within a year, though they weren't
| _particularly_ troublesome until maybe fifteen or eighteen
| months. I do acknowledge that I used this hardware fairly
| hard, but it was consistently _well_ under a thousand cycles
| before at least minor issues in the connection were apparent,
| and these OLED hinges are probably even more demanding.
| honkycat wrote:
| I actually kinda love this form factor. my laptop is a glorified
| desktop/monitor and removing the keyboard is a good idea.
| michaelsalim wrote:
| This is really exciting. Being able to fold will make it so much
| easier to carry around. My dream is to have a 24 or even a 27
| inch monitor that you can fit in an every day backpack.
|
| I don't really care that it's also a laptop. Heck, I don't get
| why you would ever want a foldable phone. But foldable monitor at
| this size makes a lot of difference in packing.
|
| At 17 inch, it's not the biggest difference since you can still
| fit that in a backpack. 24 inch? Good luck. But I'd imagine the
| size to increase over time. Surprised nobody is talking more
| about this.
| drcode wrote:
| > I don't get why you would ever want a foldable phone.
|
| I like having what is essentially an iPad in my pocket at all
| times (insofar as an Android tablet is an iPad)
| risho wrote:
| does this double as a monitor? i might have missed it but it
| didn't say anything about that.
| dheera wrote:
| I wonder if it would have a crease in the middle over a long
| time. I've seen people with folding phones, they look cool at
| first but after 6 months they look like shit.
| shimonabi wrote:
| Form over functionality.
| eterps wrote:
| AFAIK there is absolutely no innovation with software defined
| keyboards, they statically mimic a physical keyboard. I would
| expect well defined open APIs so that applications tailor the
| keyboard for optimal contextualized use for that app. The only
| thing that came close is Apple's touchbar but even that one is
| quite static and not very liberating in practice. Of course the
| downside of adaptive software keyboards is that you have a
| slightly different keyboard layout per application, so mostly a
| feature for experienced and professional users.
| WithinReason wrote:
| This seems like it would be such a basic idea, e.g. holding
| down crtl would show you button combinations on each key that
| use ctrl.
| ilaksh wrote:
| I think eventually (5-10 years?) most "laptops" may be using
| on-screen keyboards. Especially if there is somewhat decent
| haptic feedback.
|
| It just makes so much more sense from a manufacturing
| standpoint for one thing. Makes it much simpler and you don't
| need to create separate keyboard layouts for different
| languages.
|
| Also, younger generations are quite comfortable using on-screen
| keyboards on their phones.
|
| But what will really make it take off is contextual and
| customizable user interfaces that sit next to the virtual
| letter and symbol keys. Which of course there could be many
| more symbols or emojis available in subkeyboards or for
| different contexts.
| clintonwoo wrote:
| I have some doubts about this, since I feel like using a
| screen as a keyboard is more prone to joint based injury or
| wear and tear like posture or RSI related problems. So at
| least I don't think it would be the main keyboard type.
| jmiskovic wrote:
| Adaptive keyboards are actually more oriented towards beginners
| than advanced users. They optimize for feature discoverability
| (and coolness factor).
|
| Physical keyboard is current optimum for text entry precisely
| because it is not adaptable, and that enables you to adapt to
| it. Without muscle memory you are much, much slower. When an
| advanced user wants to refresh page, they can instantly recall
| Ctrl+R combo and just press it, without glancing down and
| coordinating between hand and eye to tap the icon, and then
| verifying the tap was registered. With adaptable keyboards the
| advanced users lose all their edge.
|
| That said, swiping is really nice way to enter English text on
| touchscreens. I still hate switching to numbers and special
| characters, or entering non-dictionary words, but it works
| unexpectedly good. I agree with you that more innovation is
| needed.
| eterps wrote:
| > they can instantly recall Ctrl+R combo and just press it,
| without glancing down and coordinating between hand and eye
| to tap the icon
|
| Interesting example, I can imagine something like an Ctrl+R
| combo to be a bit cumbersome on a software keyboard, would
| need to test it to be sure though.
| xSxY3fj5gVCmvWE wrote:
| Touch keyboards don't sound very liberating. I think
| experienced/professional users will be an especially bad fit
| for this. Imagine having to constantly look down at the
| keyboard to see what contextual options are available. It's
| like getting a new keyboard and having to get used to a
| different layout, _except it 's forever_. Say goodbye to your
| flow state, hope you haven't gotten used to it.
|
| That said, this laptop seems to include a physical keyboard, so
| maybe it's not that bad. I hope manufacturers keep
| experimenting with computer form factors, but preferably sane,
| human-centric ones.
| eterps wrote:
| > Say goodbye to your flow state
|
| I see what you mean here, but am not so sure about that to be
| honest. We just haven't seen much innovation here IMO. It
| could specifically optimize for flow, somewhat reminiscent of
| Github Copilot and the suggestions in phone keyboards.
|
| For example I am wondering how a keyboard could adapt in a
| spreadsheet application if you focus on a non-empty cell.
| Depending on what's already there, there might be a
| predictable set of options on what is likely to be done next.
| (without limiting free form either).
|
| I don't have good examples, because I simply don't know what
| could be done. But I am convinced that something that
| statically mimics a physical keyboard can be improved upon.
| notacoward wrote:
| I would love something like this if it used a real hinge or a
| slide instead of a folding screen. Best of all IMO would be a
| three part screen (two hinges/slides) with a 1:2:1 ratio so that
| the line - which can be small with modern bezel-less design but
| still present - won't be in the middle. That makes it usable for
| games etc. as well as many tiled terminal/editor windows.
| Innovation is great and all, kudos to them for trying this, but
| validating the UX aspects separately from the base display
| technology seems worthwhile.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I want to see high-res pictures of that device after 2, 5 and 10
| simulated years of use.
| nreilly wrote:
| I expect days/weeks is probably enough to see the wear you're
| looking for.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| How does the 17 inch screen stand up? There are no pictures of it
| standing from the back. Maybe I overlooked it?
| shimonabi wrote:
| It has a small picture-frame-like stand. You can see it here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us7rKu5SgUI
| Tepix wrote:
| At 1:51 there seems to be "visual residue" from the
| unfolding. I wonder how long it takes to disappear.
| bluelightning2k wrote:
| This looks really cool. Imagine if Apple had released this.
|
| Even the software stuff is genuinely very interesting: use a
| tablet and phone as external screens when I'm travelling? Smart
| background noise reduction? Yes please!
| Darmody wrote:
| I love the innovation but I don't see me buying something like
| this. I'd use it like a standard laptop and I think most people
| would do the same.
|
| And then you have all the possible screen problems. We've seen it
| happening with phones and I wouldn't like paying a considerable
| sum of money for something that will break easily if I look at it
| the wrong way.
|
| Gives us connectivity, good screen, power and autonomy. Leave the
| weird designs, they remind me of the mobile phone era before the
| iPhone.
| preisschild wrote:
| I'd just wish for an arm64 laptop that isn't made by Apple.
|
| Software development is getting more and more relevant on arm,
| and using native tools is way better than cross-compiling.
|
| OLED is pretty cool though.
| vips7L wrote:
| Lenovo just launched the Thinkpad X13s with an ARM CPU. My only
| issue with it is that it's fanless:
| https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th...
| jeroenhd wrote:
| Sadly, Qualcom's performance is still laughable compared to
| Apple's M1. You can get a Macbook air for around the same
| price that runs twice as fast (and probably has better
| speakers). If you intend to run Windows, you'll also run into
| slower x64 applications more often than with a Mac.
|
| I'm really not sure what the advantage would be for picking a
| Qualcom processor over getting an i3 or lower end AMD APU.
|
| Someone really needs to step up ARM processor design because
| no matter how much I detest Apple's business practices, I
| can't deny that their ARM chip is far superior to the rest of
| the market.
| bogwog wrote:
| > Someone really needs to step up ARM processor design
| because no matter how much I detest Apple's business
| practices, I can't deny that their ARM chip is far superior
| to the rest of the market
|
| Never going to happen unless regulators do something about
| Qualcomm's monopoly. Apple is pretty much the only company
| with the resources to fight them, yet they still can't get
| away from Qualcomm parts even in their latest iPhones.
|
| If it wasn't for Qualcomm, I think powerful ARM
| workstations would've arrived much, much sooner (among
| other innovations). But of course, monopolies are an enemy
| of innovation.
|
| EDIT: Okay, "never" may be an exaggeration, but if it's
| going to happen, it's going to happen on Qualcomm's
| schedule, not the free market's.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| > Never going to happen unless regulators do something
| about Qualcomm's monopoly. Apple is pretty much the only
| company with the resources to fight them, yet they still
| can't get away from Qualcomm parts even in their latest
| iPhones.
|
| The regulators would be hard-pressed as they have nothing
| to regulate. Qualcomm doesn't have a monopoly on the ARM
| ISA. Samsung, Mediatek, Fujitsu, Intel, Nvidia, AMD, etc.
| all have licenses. Even Microsoft and Google have
| designed their own ARM processors.
|
| Qualcomm has nothing to do with ARM aside from being a
| licensee itself. Apple's contentions with Qualcomm center
| on, inter alia Qualcomm's already awarded patents on
| cellular modems and the licensing fees it charges Apple.
|
| > If it wasn't for Qualcomm, I think powerful ARM
| workstations would've arrived much, much sooner (among
| other innovations). But of course, monopolies are an
| enemy of innovation.
|
| Intel already tried with StrongARM/XScale to little
| noteworthy success. Nvidia has achieved limited success
| with Tegra, but mainly in automotive dashboards and their
| Shield boxes. All of this is the free market at work.
| Qualcomm isn't necessary for ARM laptops to fail and his
| historically had little to do with it.
| vips7L wrote:
| IIRC while it does under perform apples CPU's it performed
| as well as intel's mobile i5's
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Pinebook Pro meets your criteria but I think you'd find it too
| slow. So you want an arm64 laptop that's also fast and with a
| decent amount of memory.
|
| I wonder if we're at the point yet where I can use my phone
| with a foldable screen and keyboard as a workstation.
| piaste wrote:
| Didn't Samsung use to sell a docking station for phones?
| Whatever happened to it?
|
| With so much applications moving to the web (eg. gitpod),
| even an Android phone would make for a suitable desktop.
| weberer wrote:
| Like half the Chromebooks out there have ARM processors.
| hyperpallium2 wrote:
| Folding, glasses or projection seem the only ways to smaller yet
| bigger.
|
| On a folding phone, I found the hinge is noticable on a blank
| screen - but not when watching a video. Not sure how it will go
| with a terminal, but if a window doesn't cross the hinge, would
| it matter?
| chadlavi wrote:
| Can't wait til everyone gets this foldable screen nonsense out of
| their system. It's all destined for a tech oddities display in a
| museum.
| viraptor wrote:
| I think there's a good user story for it. I'm normally working
| at home (folded, docked), in the car/train (small laptop), or
| in a room away from home (full size). I don't have experience
| with large foldables, but I'm theory this is a perfect form for
| me - and I love large screens (already carrying a 15.5) I'm
| also likely to keep it folded at home for weeks, so the hinge
| durability would be less of an issue.
| Sholmesy wrote:
| Review from Dave2D 4 months ago, addresses the crease & hinge on
| a pre-production unit
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFGhvYLbBRE
|
| I think it seems like a cool idea, 17" at 4:3 ratio is _alot_ of
| screen real estate, at a 12.5 " 16:9 footprint.
|
| Lot of negativity in this comment section, personally not
| something I'm that interested in, but I _am_ interested in people
| experimenting with the form factor.
| layer8 wrote:
| Just for comparison, this 17.3" 4:3 is the same height as 21.1"
| 16:9, and it has 185 DPI. If it was a bit larger and slightly
| higher DPI, I'd consider it as a main monitor for a desktop
| build. I'm still waiting for an OLED monitor in the 24-27"
| range with 200+ DPI.
| sneak wrote:
| It's only 2560 by 1920.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| Raw resolution matters a lot less than PPI and contrast/color
| quality, IMO
| solarkraft wrote:
| On a phone yes, on a "desktop" OS losing resolution often
| also means being able to display less stuff.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| In 2022 scaling mostly works.
| andai wrote:
| I have a 4K screen with Windows 10. Some apps look great,
| some have really blurry text, some have really tiny UIs
| (or a comical mix of tiny and normal sized). This last
| category includes much of Windows' own UI...
| me551ah wrote:
| Scaling settings matter a lot more than just resolution
| elxr wrote:
| That's completely fine.
| sovnade wrote:
| is that not enough for a 17"?
|
| I don't have that many on my 27" desktop monitors and it's
| totally fine.
| Sholmesy wrote:
| Sorry, I should have clarified what I meant.
|
| I meant that 4:3 17" is substantially more than a 16:9 17"
| monitor.
|
| 4:3 vs 16:9 for the same diagonal (17") results in 12% more
| area. a 16" MBP is already large, and is only 16:10, so 17"
| 4:3 is comparable to like 18/19" of work space in 16:9/10
| world.
| wakeupcall wrote:
| I think the design is brilliant.
|
| Nice 4:3 ratio. This essentially doubles as a full screen you
| can put anywhere with a keyboard always at hand. That's how I
| use my laptop 99.9% of the time.
|
| The microsoft book is already better than a regular clamshell
| in my eyes for versatility, but If you ignore the price for a
| moment (which brings the book to ridicolous costs), IMHO this
| design beats a clamshell design in versatility a 1000 times
| over, and the detachable screen design as well.
| csdvrx wrote:
| I have a X1 Fold Tablet, and it's the best device I've ever
| owned
|
| I like it so much that I spent time to make it work great
| under Windows 11: check https://csdvrx.github.io/
| solarkraft wrote:
| ... you need to manually fix it for Windows? Does it ship
| with Linux or something?
|
| Edit: Great read - and your your enthusiasm for the device
| is getting me interested in it, but what an incredible
| software shit show. Imagine spending millions on hardware
| R&D only to release a product that's unusable due to
| terrible software. Why do manufacturers keep doing this?
| csdvrx wrote:
| > Edit: Great read - and your your enthusiasm for the
| device is getting me interested in it
|
| Just get one - it's hard to live without it now!!
|
| > but what an incredible software shit show.
|
| Microsoft didn't deliver the OS they were supposed to
| (bad) but Windows 11 is everything and more (good)
|
| Intel... well, it's Intel. If you go into plane mode
| before suspend and play with the device manager to
| restart the device when the driver crashes or use one of
| my approaches or scripts, it works great!
| [deleted]
| ge96 wrote:
| Do you have any thoughts with the ASUS vs. what you have?
|
| Dang that's an info heavy page that you wrote haha.
| csdvrx wrote:
| Lenovo I trust. Asus, uh... not much on a 1st gen device
|
| In any case, the design is essentially the same, and I
| care about the form factor. Anything else I can find a
| way to make it work (or make a way)
| dm319 wrote:
| Might be nice to use at 17" with a 60% mechanical keyboard.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| I run a subreddit on ergonomic mobile computers (
| https://reddit.com/r/ergomobilecomputers ) and find this
| intriguing.
|
| Aside from concerns about the folding display, the keyboard is
| wireless and detachable unlike a Microsoft surface, so you can
| actually put the display on a stand and not worry about craning
| your neck down - all with the stock keyboard. In my setup I
| actually have the screen close up such that I no longer need to
| wear eyeglasses when at the computer anymore.
| samstave wrote:
| Ive used the foldable oled samsung phone a few times, and I
| REALLY like foldable OLEDs -- No idea how long they will hold
| up (how many folds between noticing the wear on the screen in
| that area, pixel failures (do OLEDs have pixels/failure of
| pixels?)
|
| But what will be dope is seeing these in kiosk like control
| panels in series, like this https://i.imgur.com/4n0Rld8.jpg
|
| I like these... I wonder if we can have an "Environmental
| Impact" Rating on consumer electronics these days.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Intriguing. Also their marketing is good, and I say that as
| someone who hates advertising.
| TekMol wrote:
| Fold or not, what I want for a laptop is:
|
| A tablet with a matte screen.
|
| That can run Linux.
|
| So I can put it on a stand and a keyboard in front of it.
|
| That would be the ultimate travel setup! Working in cafes without
| having to look down all the time.
|
| Does something like this exist?
| pjmlp wrote:
| Most likely only if packaged in ChromeOS or Android workloads,
| which isn't what you're asking for, but is what OEMs care about
| after the netbooks market vanished.
| emehrkay wrote:
| https://en.jingos.com/jingpad-a1/ maybe. I doubt the screen is
| matte
| leephillips wrote:
| I use the Microsoft Surface Pro 3 this way (other models run
| Linux well, also). However, the screen is not matte.
| nvr219 wrote:
| Dell XPS with Linux is great
| driverdan wrote:
| I have a Surface Pro 7 and it's great for this. It doesn't have
| a matte screen but does the rest of it well. I'm running PopOS
| on it and switch between the included keyboard and an external
| keyboard with it on a tablet arm.
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| Just get a Thinkpad. They have all the features you want.
| They're not going to be as thing and light, but their keyboards
| are better than anything out there. The touchpad is iffy, but
| if you're using Linux (I use it too), your touchpad experience
| is going to be subpar anyway.
| bogwog wrote:
| I used to love Thinkpads until I started using laptops with
| displays that aren't dog shit.
|
| I can adapt to a bad keyboard, lack of trackpoint and bad
| touchpad, but a bad screen will always bother me.
| smoldesu wrote:
| This is especially a problem on the older models. Some
| Thinkpads are really excellent machines besides their
| unfortunate 720p, TN panels.
|
| Admittedly though, Lenovo seemed to get their act together
| on later laptops. My T460s has a matte 1080p display with
| 90%+ DCI P3 coverage, which is pretty good for a $300 used
| laptop.
| TekMol wrote:
| This is a misunderstaning. A Thinkpad does not let me take
| off the keyboard.
|
| That's why I want a tablet and a keyboard.
|
| So I can put the tablet on a stand and the keyboard in front
| of it.
| humanistbot wrote:
| Lenovo Thinkpad X12 detachable
| TekMol wrote:
| 12 Inch is a bit small. 13 would be great.
|
| Maybe the Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Tablet would work.
|
| Does anybody know if the keyboard works while
| disconnected? So one can put the tablet on a stand and
| still use the keyboard?
| saratogacx wrote:
| I have an X1 Yoga which is capable of all of these things.
| It is a laptop with a good keyboard setup that can hold up
| it's own screen w/out a kickstand. When I don't want the
| keyboard I just fold it up and the keyboard changes to lift
| and lock so the back of it is solid making it easier to put
| on a stand (or A frame it and use a couple of books in a
| pinch. They sell one with linux preinstalled too.
|
| I got mine in 2016 and it's been rock solid.
| falcor84 wrote:
| My 2 cents: get a model with a touchpoint - once you get used
| to it, it's amazing how efficient it is to quickly switch
| between mouse and keyboard.
| nailer wrote:
| Yes same here!
|
| *Everyone is making this manually*. I carry around a music
| stand, a keyboard and mouse. My laptop has a keyboard I never
| use.
|
| GIVE US A PORTABLE SCREEN PC THAT RAISES TO EYE LEVEL AND TAKE
| OUR MONEY.
| nivenkos wrote:
| How would you use Linux when using it as a tablet though?
| weberer wrote:
| The PineTab, but its been sold out for quite a while.
| bluGill wrote:
| Should be back in stock "soon"... Though I'm keeping an eye
| on the pipenote instead now - more powerful CPU. Instead of
| LCD it is epaper which as pros and cons for this use.
| nixcraft wrote:
| Older Asus fold had many issues with Linux. In most cases, you
| can get headless mode working but forget about GUI. A better
| solution would be trying out System76, HPDevOne or Dell XPS dev
| edition for Linux desktop.
| sjamaan wrote:
| The Purism Librem 14 isn't half bad either. Currently using
| it. Love the build quality of the case, matte screen and kill
| switches. Quality of the built-in speakers is not that great.
| Keyboard is acceptable. The trackpad is nice and big.
| Dave3of5 wrote:
| If you don't mind selling your soul to the devil, dell have a
| range that support linux.
|
| A newer brand that will run linux is the framework laptop
| that's my personal recommendation.
|
| As for the matte screen you can buy films for both of those
| that will make the screen matte. Here is the ones for the
| framework:
|
| https://viascreens.com/screen-protectors/framework/
|
| You should note that mat screens generally sacrifice contrast
| and colour saturation.
|
| I suspect you won't be happy with any of this though as most hn
| commenters are extremely picky about these sorts of things.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Actually seems pretty interesting one. Still, I guess the price
| is outside reasonable range like other foldable products at this
| point.
| fstephany wrote:
| It's listed at 3700EUR on Coolblue (online shop in The
| Netherlands).
|
| https://www.coolblue.nl/en/product/905010/asus-zenbook-17-fo...
| asdfags wrote:
| meme tech
| silon42 wrote:
| Give me a proper mechanical full-size-keys keyboard laptop
| instead (TKL please).
| rgoulter wrote:
| My solution when traveling was to rest the keyboard on a bit of
| acrylic over the keyboard.
| https://www.instagram.com/p/CZRltWhpA6x/ (I didn't like the
| idea of resting an external keyboard on the laptop's keyboard
| directly).
| nsonha wrote:
| the hardware is pointless when it runs on windows, a crap OS, I'm
| still waiting patiently for linux on mobile, let alone foldable
| linux
| tdiff wrote:
| The next greatest innovation would be a self-cleaning display.
| ccbccccbbcccbb wrote:
| Planned obsolescence presented as a feature.
| ccbccccbbcccbb wrote:
| Downvoters must have some skin in the game)
|
| Dislike it or not, no material will endure getting bent 180deg
| at a radius this small many times a day without developing some
| sort of visible artifacts, let alone with the layer of light-
| emitting components embedded in it.
| k__ wrote:
| That's the first time I see foldable displays put to good use.
|
| Nice!
| april_22 wrote:
| Lenovo also had a similar laptop released a year ago. This one
| is still really cool though!
| londons_explore wrote:
| I don't feel like I can really comment on this till I've tried
| it. It's too different from other devices.
| jacquesm wrote:
| The responses to this are more interesting than the device
| itself. It's innovative, it's done by a brand that has a
| reasonable reputation for reliability and for standing behind
| their products and it may well fit a niche.
|
| Innovation is _always_ going to be risky, and Asus stands to lose
| some of their credibility if the device does not hold up over
| time. So I 'll be more than happy to let them do their thing.
|
| As for sustainability: all electronics that contain rechargeable
| batteries are in principle not sustainable and we all have one or
| more of those devices. Let the person who has never used a
| portable battery powered device cast the phirst phone.
| vxNsr wrote:
| > _it 's done by a brand that has a reasonable reputation for
| reliability and for standing behind their products_
|
| This is simply not true. Asus like acer is a brand I tell
| people to avoid when shopping for a new laptop. They have a
| horrible reputation on QA and as others have mentioned their
| support is dead last in actually getting things done.
| bedast wrote:
| Can you show a metric that shows their support is dead last?
| Or are you going off of emotional experiences and anecdotes
| of others?
|
| I've owned multiple Zenbooks over the years and they've been
| fine. I've helped friends choose Zenbooks as well and they
| were happy with them. The one time I went with a non-Zenbook
| for an upgrade (Lenovo Yoga) I regretted it.
|
| Been using Asus products for over a decade. Only ever had 1
| failure and they handled it fine. I have a 24" LCD monitor
| from 2009 that's been relegated to being a small dumb TV with
| a smart box on it to provide TV functions, so longevity seems
| fine.
|
| I'd place Corsair far below Asus, to be honest.
| wink wrote:
| There are several failure modes for innovation.
|
| New ARM-based chipset on a laptop? There are benchmarks and
| apparently we trust that they don't just melt after 1000h of
| use. (and sometime you can replace a laptop cpu)
|
| Smartwatch? Cool new thing, doesn't really cost an arm and a
| leg, might try that - maybe the battery can be replaced.
|
| A screen - the one thing that you had to carry very careful
| (crt), be careful not to scratch while wiping off dust, or not
| letting your waterbottle press against too heavily in your
| bag... and now you're folding it?
|
| This is one of the few times you can call me a pure Luddite, I
| am terrified of this and the idea that it could break like 2
| months after warranty ends. Or inside warranty and they just
| tell me to gtfo because I handled it wrong. Yes, maybe I am
| overly careful here, but my personal laptops are from 2016 and
| 2013 and both got some amount of abuse... I like long-lasting
| hardware...
| jacquesm wrote:
| Well, wait and see. Early adopters get to claim the cool
| factor and the rest of us can pick it up if and when it
| survives. But it's an interesting development and I do hope
| that it works out for them once they start fielding them in
| larger numbers, a recall of these devices in quantity would
| not come cheap.
| wink wrote:
| Yeah, I mean waiting and seeing is the best idea if you
| don't want to spend/waste money.
|
| Maybe we've assumed a different "majority of comments" and
| I saw more "I'm not buying this" and you meant the "this is
| a terrible idea" ones :P
| geraldwhen wrote:
| God help your soul if you need to deal with an ASUS hardware
| RMA. They are easily the worst PC hardware manufacturer of all,
| and they sell clearly damaged and broken parts as "refurb."
|
| They are terrible.
| Algent wrote:
| Also had terrible experience with that last year, brand new
| X570 constantly crashing after a year, found a capacitor
| leaking they kept the card for two week and sent it back
| without any change and with the shipping sticker directly on
| the box.
|
| Had to throw the card away (out of spite, I had my own
| machine constantly crash for months before finding the cause)
| and buy a new one and X570 is not cheap at all. I'll do
| everything I can to never buy an Asus again for a long time,
| this include work where I can weight on this.
|
| Since then two friends with a Asus MB (one same as me the
| other an intel one from 3y ago) went dead too due massive
| amount of capacitors leak, made me think they have a big
| problem that isn't talked about very much.
| sleepymoose wrote:
| I hear more RMA horror stories about ASUS motherboards than
| any of their other products. That could just be due to a
| higher amount of MB failures though.
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| I am too old. In 1980s if you buy motherboard you have to
| buy asus. Ever if it is built, asus.
|
| Not sure these days as more a mac person ... except my pc
| is running i9 still asus. Never have motherboard issues.
| Just sample of one but so far so good.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| My $800 Asus monitor developed a faulty power supply, so I
| RMA'd it in original packaging. They refused the repair on
| the basis that the screen was cracked and sent me back a
| cracked screen. Unfortunately, my proof pictures weren't
| illuminated and in focus on the corner where Asus RMA
| cracked it, so I couldn't prove anything and was SOL. Ah
| well.
| cptskippy wrote:
| This is why I take a dozen or more photos of anything I
| ship, regardless of whether it's eBay, RMA, or a return.
| Photos are free.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Yep. My story was an $800 reminder that my photo game
| wasn't on point. Wise readers will let _my_ $800 be
| _their_ reminder.
| rozap wrote:
| That wasn't my experience. In college a roommate spilled a
| pint of beer on my ZenBook. They replaced the keyboard for me
| even though I was clear that it was an accident and not a
| product failure.
|
| I've bought zenbooks ever since then, and they've been great.
| bedast wrote:
| Late last year going into early this year I had to deal with
| ASUS RMA with my ROG Flow X13 and the dock. The dock started
| failing. They wanted both the laptop and the dock sent in, so
| I sent both in. It took a while, but they got it taken care
| of.
|
| The only problem I ran into is apparently FedEx treated the
| return as a soccer ball. The sturdy packaging was very
| damaged, and I'm surprised the damage to the laptop and dock
| weren't worse than a cracked frame, bent hinge, and cracked
| dock frame.
|
| ASUS handled redoing the RMA without charging me anything. My
| assumption is they used the FedEx insurance.
|
| They always re-image the device. When I got it back the
| second time, they forgot to remove their repair image and I
| had to re-image it myself. No biggie, I'm fine with that.
|
| Perhaps what helped me is I've worked with technology for a
| couple of decades, including doing technical support and
| front line support for several years at the start of my
| career. I used my troubleshooting skills before even
| contacting ASUS and gave them all of my findings. The person
| I was talking to didn't bother with trying any further
| troubleshooting and just requested the RMA.
|
| So, while I get that talking to any system builder's tech
| support and RMA can be a pain, I had a positive experience
| with ASUS RMA.
|
| I have a friend with a recent Alienware laptop that had
| issues on day 1. Dell technician did a house call, basically
| destroyed his laptop, and left. Another friend has sworn off
| Dell because after several RMAs of his laptop, the warranty
| eventually expired and it still failed again. I don't know
| many people who have had to go through RMAs of other
| companies. But I get the impression that, outside of business
| support, all of them are garbage. However, ASUS did me right.
| djmips wrote:
| Interesting how you can take a horror story and come out
| feeling good. Lowered expectations...
| bedast wrote:
| Failures happen. I've had to deal with Asus RMA only once
| in over a decade (I still have a monitor from 2009 that
| works and is in use). The only "horror" that happened was
| caused by FedEx, not Asus. I'm definitely upset that I
| had to send it back to Asus for a second time, but I
| don't blame Asus for FedEx damaging my device in transit.
|
| I've had more "horror" from Corsair products. And not
| just one product line from them.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| I bought about 16 refurbished asus gpus last year and 9
| were DOA. Some had extreme damage but no packaging damage,
| making me think they were sent damaged.
|
| Requiring a laptop for a dock issue is insane. That is not
| good service.
| varispeed wrote:
| Watch NorthridgeFix channel. Asus laptops are very much
| regulars -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjGvLOW6Qec
| caycep wrote:
| If not Asus, then who?
|
| Asrock - have not had a motherboard go bad...but looking at
| their website, I'd be wary of trying to get an RMA
|
| Gigabyte/MSI all have their own share of complaints....
|
| eVGA? they have stateside support but sometimes the specs
| aren't as good as Asrock's.
|
| PNY?
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Have heard almost exclusively good things about EVGA's RMA
| process. Haven't needed that service myself but from what
| I've seen/heard they'll replace defective hardware without
| fighting you about it and the replacement is shipped
| quickly.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| EVGA makes you pay return shipping, and turnaround time
| is 10-15 days in my experience, depending on how much
| money you want to spend on shipping.
|
| I've exclusively used UPS ground for my evga returns, of
| which I did 5-10 over the past couple years.
| iasay wrote:
| LOL I read the first comment about Asus and quality and
| expected to read this. Can confirm. Absolutely the worst
| company on the planet.
| WillAdams wrote:
| And the underlying engineering is unreliable for some models
| --- which is a shame --- I'm still sad that my Asus Note 8 w/
| Wacom stylus quit working (just after I'd kitted it out w/
| every accessory I needed), and I regret not picking up their
| b/w LCD unit.
| citizenpaul wrote:
| IDK if ASUS has been doing it longer than others. However I
| find that this is common practice now days for most
| companies. I exchanged some sony headphones the other week
| and the ones I got back literally had dirt smeared in them,
| like some construction worker or mechanic had them and
| returned them.
|
| I had some issues with a corsair power supply a couple years
| ago I had to do 5 returns before they finally sent me one in
| a box that was not already opened.
|
| Apple does this as matter of practice. You go in they will
| give you an "new" phone that is in some weird box that is not
| the retail box. Those are returned phones.
| elxr wrote:
| > I had to do 5 returns before they finally sent me one in
| a box that was not already opened.
|
| Before this year, I've never had a defective electronic
| device (laptop, phone, monitor, camera, etc.) or
| encountered any issue that made me return a device. But a
| few months back, I had a similarly terrible experience with
| returns.
|
| I bought a new lenovo yoga, it came with a defective
| spacebar. Got a replacement, it came with another defective
| spacebar! And this was a new laptop, still sealed. Decided
| to just replace the keyboard & upper case under warranty
| (which was the recommended procedure), and now the spacebar
| issue is finally fixed. But now I notice the new upper case
| had a raised crease above the "Esc" key. This time, I'm not
| bothering with another return or replacement, at least the
| crease isn't affecting any functionality.
|
| I've never experienced QC this poor before on a brand new,
| >$1000 electronic device. The whole thing turned me off
| from lenovo laptops.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| Doesn't surprise me at all. Dealing with any company that
| isn't apple is a nightmare.
|
| I had a razer laptop with display issues. I paid to ship
| it to California, and 2 months later they shipped me back
| a laptop with display issues.
|
| And the tech was anything but fluent in English. He had a
| very rudimentary command of the language so I question
| whether he even understood the problem.
| simonh wrote:
| The Apple ones are refurbs. They replace the screen and
| battery.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Apple does this as matter of practice. You go in they
| will give you an "new" phone that is in some weird box
| that is not the retail box. Those are returned phones._
|
| That sounds like a replacement refurb. They won't tell you
| that it's "new." Apple does that, when they can't fix the
| problem. I've gotten a couple of those, over the years, and
| never had a problem.
|
| I get AppleCare, by habit. I seldom need it, but when I do,
| I'm sure glad I did.
|
| I remember, once, I had a laptop that developed a fatigued
| hinge, as well as issues with the USB-C/TB ports. Apple
| basically replaced the entire unit. Another time, they gave
| me a refurb replacement that worked great.
|
| I used to travel a lot, and my laptops saw a lot of action.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| I replaced a broken display on a friend's ASUS laptop several
| years ago (which she had bought a few years before that at my
| recommendation) and found that one of the display hinge
| screws went right through the wifi antenna cable. "Oh yeah,"
| she said when I pointed it out. "The wifi reception's never
| been very good." I put in a replacement antenna and cable
| from a parts laptop I had around and it worked much better.
|
| That was the moment I realized that most consumer hardware is
| crap (even well-respected brands), and it can be difficult
| and expensive to try to find something that's not. I no
| longer recommend any specific brands to people.
| londons_explore wrote:
| I really wish they'd design the case of the product to be
| fully removable easily (ie. 30 seconds with the right tool).
| Then a 'refurb' can consist of switching your case onto new
| innards.
|
| Since this form of 'refurb' would be so cheap to operate, all
| warranty claims could be handled this way no questions asked.
|
| Send the old innards back to the factory to run the full
| factory test suite, and if they pass then great, and if they
| fail have them stripped for parts.
| mox1 wrote:
| You are describing the framework laptop. Maybe not 30
| seconds, but all you need is a screwdriver
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| Dell warranties have covered this (and more) for me
| pkage wrote:
| This is pretty much the Apple model.
| andrewmunsell wrote:
| Unfortunately, I have to agree.
|
| I went from having ASUS graphics cards and motherboards, to
| swearing off from buying ASUS products ever again. For me,
| they refused to repair or replace a brand new motherboard
| with a defective PCI-e slot because of some tiny cosmetic
| scratch somewhere else on the motherboard, claiming the
| "damage" voided the warranty. Magnuson-Moss anyone?
|
| ASUS has even been warned by the FTC for violating the
| Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, so really I should not be
| surprised: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/foia_re
| quests/War...
| fuckmeyes wrote:
| They are shit in RMA but as is every other company, most
| service centres are outsourced. I remember I just need a
| droid to remove the cmos battery from my zenbook to fix some
| weird power on race condition that prevented the whole thing
| from switching on - I didn't have the silly screwdrivers -
| yet they wanted to rma it for two weeks - had to literally
| scream down the shop unrefined - losing face - until they
| relented albeit with sir it won't work but calm down you
| idiot we'll try, of course it worked and I was back in a taxi
| 20mins later with working zenbook and my data. Still better
| than Acer but still shit. This was bangkok
| eldaisfish wrote:
| Not every other company. Apple - to name one - are often
| simply excellent at this because they understand the power
| of customer satisfaction. There are numerous stories of
| apple replacing failed hardware with equivalent, newer
| models - phones and laptops alike.
|
| There are plenty of legitimate criticisms one can make of
| Apple but customer satisfaction under warranty is not one
| of them.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Agree. I had a nearly-new MacBook Air that had some weird
| power-on behavior. Took it to an Apple store; they ran
| diagnostics, found something amiss and I walked out with
| a brand new replacement in under an hour. (No "we have to
| escalate to corporate", just "You have a good TimeMachine
| backup? OK, here ya go...")
|
| In summary, I got sold a defective product from a company
| and left with a much higher overall impression of the
| company.
| [deleted]
| seanw444 wrote:
| I personally don't care for their devices, or their
| locked-down software. But seeing how they treat my
| parents, they certainly have great customer satisfaction.
| nyadesu wrote:
| > or their locked-down software
|
| Not anymore, check out Asahi Linux.
| seanw444 wrote:
| Asahi isn't their software. Thankfully Macbooks can boot
| other OSs. I was mostly referring to their iDevices.
| aqwsde wrote:
| Ever heard of Louis Rossmann?
| jjoonathan wrote:
| He works exclusively on dead Apple products all day,
| every day. How does this not result in base rate neglect?
| sdflhasjd wrote:
| He does have stories about customers who get scammed by
| Apple's repair service.
| jjoonathan wrote:
| Again, he only sees the bad stories.
|
| I consider myself a fan of Louis Rossman. He's fighting
| the good fight and nearly every individual bad thing he
| says about Apple is correct. My point is that Apple is
| colossal and even if they were saints anointed by God --
| which they aren't -- I would expect them to have enough
| design mistakes and negative experiences to fill ten
| Rossman channels. To some degree these reflect their
| size, and to some degree they reflect Apple's quality,
| and you can't tell which without making some effort to
| correct for base rate. Louis makes absolutely no effort
| to correct for base rate. That's fine for repair purposes
| and even for engineering feedback, but it makes his
| criticism completely useless for analyzing the overall
| quality situation.
|
| I have a desktop PC for gaming and most of my work
| laptops have been PC, so an estimate from my own
| experiences has waaaaay less base rate bias at the cost
| of admittedly tiny N and much more variance. I've
| probably seen a dozen big issues (bezels that delaminate
| on flex, charger DRM broken in update, wifi cables that
| pull out when you tilt the screen back, ...) on the PCs
| that would have been twitter scandals and would have
| filled Rossman Repair's shelves if they had happened in
| the Mac world, but because of the low expectations in the
| PC world they just sort of float under the radar. "Dude,
| that's what you get for buying a Dell/Lenovo/HP/Acer, buy
| Lenovo/HP/Acer/Dell instead."
|
| So yeah, if I count by twitter complaints, macs suck. If
| I count by how many broken computers show up at Rossman
| Repair, macs suck. If I count by average problems that
| I've personally witnessed per device, macs rule.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| mentos wrote:
| Currently I have 2 PCs under my desk and 2 monitors that I use
| for work. I've fantasized about trying to travel and work but
| lugging a laptop and a portable monitor around seem too
| cumbersome. I'd love to experiment with two of these that could
| fold inside of each other (like 2 hands clasping) and set them
| up on a desk in an airbnb and remote desktop into my 2 home PCs
| from each.
|
| But most likely the idea of trying to travel/vacation and work
| at the same time is a bad one. Should probably just take
| advantage of economies of scale and do all my working at once
| and then all my traveling at once.
| nekoashide wrote:
| I take exception to you casting them as having a reasonable
| reputation for reliability. In my experience it's a gamble for
| reliability, if you lose expect poor support, long repair
| times, and if it's out of warranty the repairs are always more
| than the cost of the device.
| bedast wrote:
| You gamble when buying any product. No one has a 100% success
| rate. In my personal experience over a decade of using Asus
| products, I've not seen a 100% success rate, but my only one
| failure was recently and they took care of me.
|
| Dell might send a technician to you, but that doesn't mean
| the quality is any better. Friend of mine fairly recently had
| his Alienware laptop "repaired" which ended with Dell
| completely replacing it because the technician effectively
| destroyed his new laptop. Ordered, received it months later,
| was defective out of the box, technician destroyed it, had to
| wait even more months for a replacement, tried to send him an
| inferior replacement in the process.
|
| None of them are without faults. But I've had a lot of
| success with Asus.
| nrki wrote:
| My Asus Android tablet, abandoned without a single Android OS
| update, begs to differ.
| baybal2 wrote:
| croes wrote:
| Is it really an innovation? If I look at foldable S smartphones
| then this is like a bigger version with an external keyboard.
| luismedel wrote:
| Why not? Was the iPad an innovation or a bigger iPhone/iPod
| touch?
| croes wrote:
| I don't count an iPad as an innovation. It is just a bigger
| iPhone.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Is there a similar device on the market right now?
|
| A 'bigger version' by two orders of magnitude surface wise
| certainly seems innovative to me, I'm not aware of another
| company risking their reputation on something like this at
| present but I'll be happy to be corrected.
|
| There was an intel proof-of-concept but I'm not aware of
| anything that was actually available to the public.
|
| Keep in mind that what looks trivial to you ('just a bigger
| version') may require an enormous amount of engineering to
| make it reliable enough for mass consumption.
| croes wrote:
| The problem of foldable screens is the fold not surface
| are. So the fold is longer now.
|
| These isn't a real innovation to me.
|
| Is a smartphone with double the screen size innovative?
| anthonypasq wrote:
| its 100 times bigger?
| croes wrote:
| That would be an innovation, have never seen a screen
| that big.
| malfist wrote:
| Just so GP knows how much bigger "2 orders of magnitude"
| from the Galaxy Fold would be, it's >16 square meters of
| screen space. That would mean a screen north of 160" on
| it's diagonal. Somehow, I don't think 17" cuts it.
| thereddaikon wrote:
| Lenovo X1 fold. It was announced last year.
| tromp wrote:
| But priced itself out of the market at EUR 4900...
| april_22 wrote:
| Exactly. It's basically the same device executed a bit
| better..
| sebzim4500 wrote:
| > 'bigger version' by two orders of magnitude surface wise
| certainly seems innovative to me
|
| Is it even one order of magnitude?
| shawabawa3 wrote:
| It's actually 16 orders of magnitude bigger than a 5"
| smart phone... if you use a base of 1.08
|
| There's no defined base for order of magnitude so
| technically you can use anything!
| lwhi wrote:
| Was a tablet innovative?
|
| Just a bigger smartphone ..?
| Pxtl wrote:
| I used to be a fan of Asus devices but their quality has gone
| down over time, and it wasn't that high to begin with. At this
| point the only product of theirs I stand behind is their
| routers, and that's only because the quality standard of the
| router industry is even worse.
| lxe wrote:
| Why isn't resolution front and center? Oh it's because it's "Up
| to 2.5K (2560 by 1920)", so still stuck in 2007.
| risho wrote:
| dude thinkpads were being sold with LESS THAN 1080p screens all
| the way up through the mid 2010's. to this very day 1080p
| displays make up MORE THAN 50 percent of the steam hardware
| survey. resolutions that are higher than 1440p on that survey
| make up less than 10 percent. you are so wrong that it isn't
| even funny.
| sovnade wrote:
| 2560x1920 for a 17" screen is perfectly fine. It's about on par
| with modern macbooks.
| bluescrn wrote:
| How many folds before it's e-waste?
|
| I'm guessing that even the battery will outlive early-generation
| folding screens.
| Tepix wrote:
| >30,000 alledgedly
| bluescrn wrote:
| 30k folds with forces applied optimally by a test rig, no
| clumsy humans involved?
| jsheard wrote:
| The official numbers will be from an optimal test rig, but
| someone did do a more "realistic" folding screen test
| recently by flipping a Flip3 manually until it died.
|
| Samsung rates it for 200,000 folds, and it lasted 418,500
| folds before the hinge failed, with the screen actually
| still working.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k86vsQEDKlg
| jfoster wrote:
| Looks fancy. Is this what the market wants?
|
| I don't particularly like Apple, but I use a Macbook Pro. I've
| been keeping an eye out for a non-Apple alternative to a Macbook,
| but nothing seems to come close in terms of hardware. I don't
| mean technical specs. I mean a beautiful screen, reasonable
| dimensions & weight, a really good touchpad, great battery life,
| etc.
|
| A big foldable screen looks cool, but doesn't feel at all
| pragmatic. Could someone please compete with Apple?
| pelagicAustral wrote:
| Looks very niche to me as well. But I can already see it might
| well be the most ideal laptop for presentations, given you
| could preview slides on one half and keep keynotes on the
| 'keyboard' half.... I can see myself enjoying using something
| like this for such purpose.
| madoublet wrote:
| I think most people (not devs/designers) view a laptop as
| something that costs around $750. That is why Windows still has
| a huge marketshare. Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, Microsoft all have
| laptops that have solid build quality, OLED screens,
| touchscreens, etc. at $1,500-2,200 price range but no one buys
| those. If you are in that price range, you are probably in one
| of those niche industries (design, development, graphics) and
| you are probably buying an Apple.
| hackerfromthefu wrote:
| That view is so myopic - loads of people buy high end non-
| apple laptops. I would anecdotally guess many many more than
| apple overall. Just seems you're lacking in awareness of it.
| Probably a particular social bubble you are in, combined with
| myopia to the rest of the world.
| april_22 wrote:
| Also I think MacOS is still much better than Windows in terms
| of design and usability
| cowtools wrote:
| I think Linux is still much better than MacOS in terms of
| design and usability, but that doesn't really mean much
| when operating systems compete on compatibility with
| programs (which themselves compete on compatibility with
| operating systems). It is a vicious cycle.
|
| If your job requires you to run AutoCAD or VSC++ or
| something, you're just going to use windows. The average
| user isn't going to figure out how to use KVM or Wine or
| something. If your job requires some linux/unix tool, is
| the average user going to fidget with it until it works in
| MacOS or just use Ubuntu or something? MacOS is the worst
| of both worlds: it is both closed-source AND a minority OS.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I used a rolling release distro for a while on desktop
| and a NUC, it was really nice and convenient. But I
| switched over to Ubuntu for a laptop ("they'll sort out
| the touchscreen drivers and onscreen keyboard situation"
| I told myself), now and I kinda regret telling people to
| "just use Ubuntu or something" in the past.
|
| It worked when I first installed it, until quite
| recently, when a new version hit. Upgrading every package
| at the same time is obviously destabilizing, something
| has changed in the plumbing and under certain
| circumstances some gtk programs require a 30 second
| timeout to occur before they start, and there's the whole
| snap firefox debacle. Longing for the stability of
| rolling release, oddly enough.
|
| Anyway, I haven't used MacOS, but I've generally been
| surprised to find that my current system is hovering
| around near-Windows level usability, other than the
| familiar terminal which is nice. Probably time to try out
| tumbleweed...
| varispeed wrote:
| I disagree. Buying Dell and Samsung laptop in that price
| range I'd say it is an overpriced rubbish if you compare to
| current Apple produce. There is really no comparison when it
| comes to build quality and performance.
| eertami wrote:
| I have an XPS and I personally find it better than the M1
| MBP in almost everything except power efficiency, so I have
| much difference experiences compared to your other review
| in this thread.
|
| The XPS doesn't make much noise and I notice no difference
| in speed while developing. Some tasks are even faster,
| because native Docker instead of running via Docker for
| Mac. The battery doesn't last as long I guess, but it will
| still last for 8 hours, which is far longer than I need.
| varispeed wrote:
| This is not my experience with XPS 15 (2019). It is
| substantially slower, it is loud and battery used to last
| less than an hour. Then constantly dying chargers, I had
| a box of Dell chargers that worked for a month and then
| laptop stopped recognising them. For the tasks I do (I
| use Docker heavily) M1 is more than twice as fast in low
| power mode and never heard fans going off or felt any
| slowdowns. On XPS if I opened a heavier webpage, it was
| possible for the entire laptop to slow down and not even
| refreshing the screen timely, so you witnessed a
| slideshow and usually only way out was to perform a hard
| reset. Also random power off or if it goes to sleep it
| won't wake up. I have to then leave it for an hour and
| then maybe it will power on (sometimes I have to try a
| couple of times). This is actually the same experience I
| had with earlier XPS 13. Google XPS won't power on -
| plenty of people have this problem.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| > $1,500-2,200 price range but no one buys those.
|
| Individuals may not but companies buy (or lease) truckloads
| of them.
| [deleted]
| therealunreal wrote:
| The Surface Book has a great screen, at 13.5" it's perfect and
| not too heavy, good touchpad and great battery life.
|
| Now, I'm not sure I'd recommend it for other reasons and I
| haven't tried the latest gen, but it sure fits your
| requirements.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| There are plenty of non-Apple alternatives to the MBP. Plenty
| of laptops with a 6800U or 6800H. None of them have better
| trackpads, but plenty have nice ones and significantly better
| keyboards. And some have OLED or 240Hz screens which I'd say
| are better than the ones in the MacBook Pro. Any laptop with
| that processor and a reasonable 65Wh+ battery is going to have
| great battery life.
|
| Some even have great graphics cards, or touchscreens with pen
| support, or mechanical keyboards, etc... ASUS even makes a few
| laptops in this category (some of them are branded as gaming
| laptops but really do everything you want).
|
| The issue with PC laptops isn't that there is no competition
| for the MBP. It's just that it's very confusing and that there
| are literally hundreds of options and only 5-6 models that will
| do what you want.
|
| There are a lot of
| mnahkies wrote:
| I've been very happy with my Dell XPS 15 - 5 years old and
| still going strong albeit with reduced battery performance.
| Great Linux support and a nice screen.
|
| Will probably upgrade in the next year or two primarily because
| replacing the battery and increasing the ram is pricey enough
| that I may as well buy a new machine.
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| +1 for the XPS line! I have one that is probably ~5 years
| old. Just replaced the battery on it with no hassle (got a
| reasonably priced OEM replacement from NewEgg). The build
| quality on these things is excellent, and the specs are not
| bad either!
| weberer wrote:
| The New XPS line doesn't support real sleep mode. It is a
| huge pain starting work after the weekend and most of your
| battery is already gone. I'd avoid them until they get this
| fixed.
|
| https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9510-fails-to-
| slee...
| jfoster wrote:
| Looks pretty good actually. Especially considering the Linux
| support. Might be my next one.
| nottorp wrote:
| > I mean a beautiful screen, reasonable dimensions & weight, a
| really good touchpad, great battery life, etc.
|
| The competition on the other side is on specs. It's hard to
| stick hardware with bigger numbers in a thin case. Look at
| Intel's NUCs vs the Mac Mini... they come with a power brick
| larger than the computer to win in specs, while Apple has an
| elegant built in PSU.
|
| And... a working touchpad that can actually replace a mouse for
| 95% of use cases? How are you going to market that?
|
| You want the largest numbers, you have to go with the others.
| If you can stomach windows. You want a less annoying
| experience, Apple unfortunately has about zero competition
| there. Which is bad even for Apple users because then you get
| masterpieces like the butterfly keyboard...
| suction wrote:
| In East Asia, novelty or "cuteness" of a product, i.e. the look
| of things, is mostly what counts. That's how East Asian makers
| try to stay ahead of the competition, because actual innovation
| that goes beyond the surface (no pun intended) is hard and not
| actually encouraged in societies with a confucian view of the
| workplace.
| user_named wrote:
| Source?
| suction wrote:
| Living many years in Japan and China and really
| understanding the culture?
| nemothekid wrote:
| > _In East Asia, novelty or "cuteness" of a product, i.e. the
| look of things, is mostly what counts._
|
| I find it hard to believe that this is an exclusively an east
| asian thing. Apple spent a decade chasing thinness over all
| else.
| suction wrote:
| Guess why - because the East Asian customers want thinness
| and lightness over power. I know because in Japan, when
| people saw my Mac (a 2013 MBP), first they were like "oh a
| Mac, can I try it?", but as soon as they held it, they were
| extremely surprised by its weight (compared to some 11"
| Toshiba notebook they preferred). It's understandable
| because in Japanese and Chinese cities, city people rarely
| drive but lug around their computers in bags, up and down
| stairs, standing for 1-2 hours in the crowded subway, etc.
| MontyCarloHall wrote:
| >actual innovation ... is not actually encouraged in
| societies with a confucian view of the workplace.
|
| How does this follow? If the implication is that collectivist
| societies frown upon excelling relative to one's peers (which
| is not true, BTW), then wouldn't the exact same logic apply
| to novelty or cuteness?
|
| No, this is the result of corporate bean counters thinking
| they should maximize short term profit with a splashy
| product, rather than maximize long term profit with high
| quality and reliability, which take more time for the market
| to recognize.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I think this is too shallow a dismissal of innovation in an
| area so large that it spans 35% of the globe, and there are
| quite literally numerous existence proofs that it isn't
| correct.
|
| The idea that all innovation happens in the United States and
| Europe is fairly ridiculous, innovation happens on all levels
| of product development, both deep in the guts of products as
| well further up as well as sometimes entirely new classes of
| products.
| nottorp wrote:
| I have anecdata. I worked for an European guy who was
| designing new (and at least in his mind) innovative
| hardware from scratch in the US. And getting it
| manufactured in China. The Chinese looked at him like he
| was insane because he was designing everything from scratch
| instead of cloning something.
| suction wrote:
| East Asian societies which have not yet let go of
| Confucianist mindsets are not 35% of the globe.
| trebbble wrote:
| > great battery life, etc.
|
| The "great battery life" is part hardware, but largely
| software. See also: iOS devices with "worse" specs and smaller
| batteries that perform _way_ better than "better" Android
| counterparts, while also having longer battery life. Some of
| it's hardware voodoo, but a lot of it's iOS and MacOS and
| various pieces of Apple software (notably Safari and Mobile
| Safari) being very respectful of system resources and
| protective of the battery.
|
| It's a bit like how you used to be able to put BeOS on a
| Windows or Linux desktop and it'd _feel_ like all the hardware
| was 4x higher clock / bigger memory size than it had been.
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| iasay wrote:
| The reason that there is no non-Apple alternatives to the
| MacBook Pro is because everyone is too focused on blue sky
| innovation rather than actually doing the best job of stuff
| that already exists.
|
| _Quality_ is the feature that apple sell. I don 't think
| anyone else gets near them.
| sovnade wrote:
| There's plenty of good laptops out there not made by apple.
| Dell XPS 13 is excellent, asus has several zenbook models
| that are on par, etc. They don't get much media coverage
| because the standards we expect from laptops are so high now
| that we take it for granted (0.75" thick or less, all day
| battery, insanely high pixel density (enough to require
| scaling), fast enough cpu/memory for any day to day task,
| great screen brightness, 512gb-2tb+ nvme ssds, generic
| charger ports (usb-c), etc. You can get all of that for under
| $1k from several makers now.
| xeromal wrote:
| Shout out to the XPS line. I have one as my development
| machine and it's wonderful.
| rsynnott wrote:
| > because everyone is too focused on blue sky innovation
| rather than actually doing the best job of stuff that already
| exists.
|
| Including, for a while, Apple. How quickly people have
| forgotten the touchbar!
| iasay wrote:
| We haven't forgotten or forgiven. We will eternally sleep
| with one eye open.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Selective quality. There were most-expensive-on-the-market-
| yet-worst-quality fraying cables that my 1$ usb cables from
| aliexpress could run circles around long after those were
| discarded (or not, my mother-in-law still carries one around,
| I guess to remind everyone how crappy engineering looks
| like). Bending phones (was it 6?). Also some nefarious moves
| like slowing down older phones.
|
| Every manufacturer has these blops. Yet very few (more like
| none) have such fanatical crowd of followers who uncritically
| accept everything and keep peddling the same 'apple is
| quality, above others, better than google on privacy' and
| similar wishful thinking/lies. They just have better PR
| department is all I see, the rest is just another HW/SW
| company who charge premium.
|
| Its nothing new, other businesses figured this long ago. You
| can have a normal decent handbag, or have louis vuitton /
| hermes one. It will cost you 10x (or 100x) more. Its often
| hand-made quality. Many women love them. Most guys are
| looking on this in same way we would look on... mentally
| underdeveloped. Yet the market exists and its booming. And
| nobody is arguing Hermes doesn't bring higher quality than
| regular brand.
|
| Coming back to your claims, apple rarely truly innovates
| these days and technologically its behind most manufacturers
| (low res cameras producing pleasing but over-processed pics
| that have colors far from reality, battery charging on level
| of basic 2016 phones, screen is OK but definitely not top of
| the market, bluetooth implementation is beyond pathetic for
| such a manufacturer, literally everybody on the market has it
| better). They take over others ideas that work and improve
| them. Which is fine but not the stellar behavior I would
| expect from 3TN company having 1 centerpiece product.
| Ensorceled wrote:
| jacquesm wrote:
| You may want to read the
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| >There were most-expensive-on-the-market-yet-worst-quality
| fraying cables that my 1$ usb cables
|
| Apple is incredibly inconsistent. The iphone cable quality
| was complete dogshit: https://i.imgur.com/t7Oajul.jpeg
|
| On the other hand, the new macbook pro magsafe cable is
| probably the best quality cable I've ever owned.
| trebbble wrote:
| I never understood WTF people were talking about with the
| cables. I'd go 5+ years with various Apple cables without
| a single sign of fraying. Not even careful with them,
| would just wad them up in bags when moving around, that
| kind of thing.
|
| ... then my kids got older, and my wife move to Apple and
| started borrowing my cables. They all kill Apple cables
| in like 6 months flat. It's incredible.
|
| [EDIT] As for _how_ they do that, I 'm not sure, but they
| _constantly_ use them stretched too far from the outlet,
| so there 's a ton of tension on the cable, and frequently
| arrange them such that they're bent a sharp 90+ degrees
| right next to the connector, often while _also_ under
| tension. I never do either of those things. I assume
| those are the things that cause it.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| This cable can do all of those things easily without
| breaking:
| https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYV3AM/A/usb-c-to-
| magsaf...
|
| It's really good.
|
| The old cables were made of weird extremely low quality
| rubber? I don't think I've seen worse quality of rubber
| on any other cable.
| asdajksah2123 wrote:
| Apple's built up an incredible lead right now (in quality and
| specs), but as the son of a of a macbook from a few years
| ago, the idea that Apple sells "quality" is mistaken, with
| the most obvious example being the butterfly keyboard, which
| would make your device unusable if you happened to say the
| wrong combination of words at the wrong time.
|
| But generally Apple has a history of laptops that have design
| defects, which Apple does not acknowledge either for years
| after they stop selling the laptop, and/or are forced to by a
| lawsuit (which will usually complete years after they stop
| selling the laptop), at which point most people won't even be
| aware that Apple has instituted a replacement program and/or
| discarded their brick for parts on eBay.
| iasay wrote:
| Please note that my point is that they sell _better_
| quality laptops than the competitors, not the _best_
| quality they could be.
|
| Although I have precisely zero complaints with my 14" MBP.
| [deleted]
| joshspankit wrote:
| Actual defects aside, a lot of people buy Apple for the
| quality.
|
| Whether those people are right or not, Apple is extremely
| good at positioning itself as the quality option.
| achow wrote:
| 100%. I take this opportunity to make people NOT forget
| 'Staingate' [1]. My colleague had horrible time getting his
| daughter's Macbook fixed by Apple, as officially they did
| not acknowledge that the problem exists for months (maybe
| close to year+).
|
| [1] https://www.makeuseof.com/macbook-staingate-fixes/
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| Which is funny because while current 14' and 16' MBPs are
| very ahead of competition, previous generation was dogshit in
| terms of quality, and had a lot of this "blue sky innovation"
| that decreased usability - like the touch bar.
| sovnade wrote:
| The M1 and M2 (and the benefits from them, like ridiculous
| battery life, low heat (enough so that you can run it
| totally fanless unless you're outside in the direct sun or
| something), and more importantly desktop-comparable speed
| for even heavy tasks like photo/video editing are really,
| really good. Honestly unless you're required to run
| windows, it makes a macbook kind of a no brainer right now,
| especially if you have other ios devices.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > importantly desktop-comparable speed for even heavy
| tasks like photo/video editing are really, really good
|
| Because it has dedicated hardware to make photo & video
| editing good. Which is great, if that's your jam. It's
| dead silicon if it isn't, though. M1/M2 strike a great
| balance for performance & battery life, absolutely. But
| it's very narrow in what it can achieve desktop-
| comparable speeds on when it comes to heavy workloads,
| and other laptops are _drastically_ faster at rather
| large areas of consumer computing like gaming.
|
| > Honestly unless you're required to run windows, it
| makes a macbook kind of a no brainer right now
|
| Or if you're just a casual / lite user but want something
| other than 13.3", which is the only size Apple offers an
| economical model. Or if you really like having a touch
| screen, which Apple refuses to do for some reason. That
| second point is basically the entire reason my SO is
| hunting for alternatives to the Air.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| >But it's very narrow in what it can achieve desktop-
| comparable speeds on when it comes to heavy workloads
|
| Very generally, Java is one of those things. CPU
| performance is really, really good for non-rosetta
| workloads.
|
| I agree though that despite Apple's wild claims the
| general GPU performance isn't that good - not that it's
| bad for very quiet laptop.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| > Very generally, Java is one of those things. CPU
| performance is really, really good for non-rosetta
| workloads.
|
| Single-threaded (or "lightly threaded") absolutely. But
| if we're saying "desktop-comparable" and "heavy
| workloads" I'm gonna assume a multi-core workload and go
| throw things like the 5950X or 12900K into the ring at a
| minimum, and the 5995WX at the extreme. M1 ultra starts
| at $4k after all, it's absolutely fair to include Xeon-W
| & Threadripper Pros against that. M1's big cores punch
| above their weight, but they still can't make up _that_
| much of a core count deficit.
| sovnade wrote:
| You're right..the lack of a touch screen is weird.
|
| I do use mine for dev work/etc though (M1) and it's
| completely fine, even with only 8gb. I've never had any
| slowdowns or felt like it was holding me back.
| eertami wrote:
| > Honestly unless you're required to run windows
|
| Or Linux, at this stage. Apple silicon support is not
| good enough yet to be a pleasant experience. Sure, an x86
| laptop doesn't compete with power efficiency of the M1/M2
| - might be useful if you regularly need to go multiple
| days without power, but my x86 laptop already gets more
| than 8 hours battery which is "good enough", and is just
| as fast for development usage (I have an M1 MBP too, I
| have tested this side by side).
|
| As a bonus I have full control of the hardware and the
| software that I want to run on it. I almost never reach
| for the Macbook unless I need to test something OSX
| specific.
| sovnade wrote:
| I made a similar comment down below..there are many good
| laptops out there and it's insane what we take for
| granted now. High PPI super-bright screens, 8+ hour
| battery life, < 1" thick, < 2lbs, 2tb+ nvme ssd, etc.
|
| I work in the microsoft stack but I use parallels on a
| MBP.
| pookha wrote:
| I took my quality Macbook to a dogbark. My quality macbooks'
| fancy screen broke because of a thin layer of dust at said
| dogpark. Opening up my quality macbook was like difussing a
| bomb. I learned from that experience and won't ever buy
| another Macbook again for as long as I live. the Macbook
| replacement has made several trips to a dogpark. I did have a
| good experience at the mac store though. Dude was honest
| about the situation and could relate to my pain and rage.
| Terretta wrote:
| Interesting! In our experience, travel and residence in
| central African dust the likes of which doesn't exist in EU
| or NA didn't do anything to Macbook Air or Macbook Pro.
| What kind of dust was the dog park? How did it affect the
| screen in particular?
|
| This tan cloud is dust rolling in:
|
| https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nPCnELCVMsvn5W0lOHlPxC2Yc
| q...
|
| Another dust squall:
|
| https://www-
| cdn.eumetsat.int/files/2020-04/img_il_10_07_05_b...
| bee_rider wrote:
| Ah, I got one of their Flips around the beginning of the year,
| wish I'd waited as this looks really cool.
|
| Wonder how the Linux support will be. The Flip has decent Linux
| hardware, as far as I can think of, every feature is working
| other than their useless numpad-on-trackpad thing (which I didn't
| even bother looking into).
| remram wrote:
| I would buy a laptop with two separate screens that unfold. I
| need the extra space to show more windows, not bigger windows, so
| I wouldn't mind them being separate panels. With different sizes
| even.
|
| edit: Maybe I should just buy a portable monitor.
| byteflip wrote:
| I'm unlikely to buy a foldable laptop, but a foldable monitor
| while traveling sounds kinda nice. I'm working from a hotel right
| now, so I can easily imagine it. Folding flat would offer
| protection from scratches in a bag/backpack and take less space.
| Would be hard pressed to fit a 17" portable monitor in my bag,
| but if it folds in half that's more tenable!
| darkteflon wrote:
| Slightly incidental, but after years of working out of hotel
| rooms, I've found that a 15.6" 4K portable display placed on a
| small tripod (Arca-Swiss mount) sitting directly above the main
| display of my 14" Macbook has been the perfect travel setup.
| It's a dual-display setup, portable (similar area to the
| computer itself), similar desktop area and font resolution to
| the native panel, and prevents you from craning your neck.
| alexitosrv wrote:
| I agree. This has been my setup as of lately
| https://imgur.com/a/1CjpS8G
|
| . Portable 4k screen (the glare in the photo is not really
| visible in front).
|
| . Custom mount for the laptop and a
|
| . Wireless thinkpad keyboard with a trackpoint (which I
| love).
|
| The cabling management has improved now, but this setup gives
| plenty of screen real estate, both displays are touch, and in
| comparison with a tablet where the applications context is
| lost the majority of time, here I can be more productive and
| is a joy to work with it.
| mncharity wrote:
| > Custom mount for the laptop [...]
|
| I've done a similar setup, but for a minimalist mount, used
| two 12in rulers, and gaff tape to make a hinge, a strap
| connecting the other ends, and a stop on one of them. So a
| heavy thinkpad sits on the desk ruler, leaning back against
| the other and the strap, with the bottom keyboard edge
| sitting between strap and stop. It's fragile, and I fear
| someday there will be a bump, crash, and sadness, but it's
| light, compact, and easily recreated.
| roflyear wrote:
| what do you do for work?
| rattray wrote:
| How do you attach an arca-swiss mount to a monitor?
| darkteflon wrote:
| I use [this](https://amzn.asia/d/a74Tepm)
| rattray wrote:
| Ah thank you! Clever.
|
| A US-friendly link to a similar product is
| https://amzn.com/dp/B09H6QV53R (I searched "arca-swiss
| tablet mount 300mm" to find it; there are others that
| only go to 230mm width for folks interested in this with
| smaller portable monitors).
|
| Personally I am currently experimenting with a Lenovo
| ThinkVision M14[0] perched (a little precariously) atop a
| Roost V3 Laptop Stand[1], which is a lower-quality but
| lighter, more minimal setup than what you describe.
|
| When I'm on Zoom call, which is often, I can move the
| laptop onto the stand for a better camera angle and put
| the external monitor beneath.
|
| I'm not doing graphics work and I find the 60Hz,
| 1920x1080, usbc-on-both-sides monitor sufficient for my
| purposes (much, much better than an old asus one which
| was 30Hz or less, and laggy).
|
| [0] https://amzn.com/dp/B07YX5NKK2 [1]
| https://amzn.com/dp/B01C9KG8IG
| tokamak-teapot wrote:
| Mind sharing which one you have please? I'd like to drop one
| in my laptop bag sometimes.
| sgerenser wrote:
| I'm using a very similar setup for when I want to work away
| from my 27" 4K display but still need a second screen to be
| productive (e.g. doing almost anything coding-related).
| Like the previous poster, I set it up with the external
| screen directly above my laptop screen which for me is much
| more comfortable than trying to put it beside the laptop,
| and ends up at a perfect eye level.
|
| Bought this LG Gram 16" Portable display (2560x1440):
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TS43YMT
|
| This portable tripod: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LGGXH1J
|
| And this "tablet" mount that gets large enough to fit the
| 16" display: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Z7Z7QZ3
|
| Tripod/tablet mount also double as an iPad stand for video
| calling, etc.
|
| Everything fits easily in my fairly compact backpack along
| with cables, dongles, mouse, etc.
| Bayart wrote:
| Uperfect makes 4K ones. AFAIK Asus only goes to 1080p.
| darkteflon wrote:
| Sure, I have an Innocn PU15-PRE. Just to reiterate that a
| 15.6" 4K is definitely the way to go. I also tried 14" 4K
| and 1440p panels but - on account of the way scaling and
| font rendering works in MacOS - they're a big step down.
| Even moreso if you're doing anything graphically intensive
| - you'll want to use non-native scaling on a 14" 4K which
| is expensive for the GPU. The 15.6" panel doesn't have this
| problem because the "effective 1080p resolution" divides
| cleanly into the native 4K panel resolution.
|
| I spent ages working through this.
| vosper wrote:
| > I also tried 14" 4K and 1440p panels but - on account
| of the way scaling and font rendering works in MacOS -
| they're a big step down
|
| You can probably fix this with BetterDisplay (formerly
| known as BetterDummy?). I used it with my 3440x1440
| monitor. https://github.com/waydabber/BetterDisplay
| localhost wrote:
| How do you mount it to a tripod? Also do you know if you
| can horizontally flip the image so it could be used with
| a teleprompter?
| localhost wrote:
| Thanks! From the manual, it looks like it only has
| support for rotation and not the flipping.
| darkteflon wrote:
| I use [this](https://amzn.asia/d/a74Tepm). Not sure about
| flipping the image but I've put the model number here in
| the thread.
| falcolas wrote:
| You could also move the camera to film the reflection
| from the 45 degree glass, if you're looking for a home
| office teleprompter solution and not a live presentation
| version.
| localhost wrote:
| Yeah, it's not actually for a teleprompter - I'm using it
| as my zero-parallax video conferencing solution with a
| Canon R5 as my webcam. I'm currently using an 11" iPad
| Pro using the excellent Duet Display software which does
| the horizontal flip [1] and it works great for that. I'd
| like the display to be larger though, but that requires
| upgrading the teleprompter too and I've been toying with
| that hence my question about monitors that can do the
| horizontal flip. But I think I'm just going to mirror a
| 24" monitor underneath my videoconferencing setup so that
| I can better see presentations during meetings.
|
| [1] https://www.duetdisplay.com/
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| ...you're using a _four thousand dollar_ (not including
| lens) mirrorless camera as your webcam for
| videoconferencing services that are typically barely a
| few megabits per second?
| localhost wrote:
| Yep. But I also use it as a stills camera and a video
| camera. And you should see the lens that I have mounted
| to it :) But that's not what I do for a living. Because
| of that, the camera would otherwise sit on a shelf,
| unused. I use it for many hours each day and it makes me
| happy to use it. The only gear that I bought that I
| wouldn't otherwise have owned is a $250 teleprompter, oh
| and the Camlink 4K for the HDMI->USB and probably a few
| other things, but you get the idea. Most of these
| mirrorless cameras sit around unused all day long. Kind
| of like your car when you're parked at work.
| liminal wrote:
| That must be the problem I had. I gave up using an
| external monitor because it turned my macbook into a
| toaster
| lostlogin wrote:
| Was that an Intel toaster or an Apple one? I think the
| Apple ones don't get so hot.
| liminal wrote:
| That one is/was Intel. Getting a bit long in the tooth,
| but still my daily driver.
| tmikaeld wrote:
| I was looking for a stand, but couldn't find one that's
| portable, what are you using?
| darkteflon wrote:
| I use a small [Neewer
| tripod](https://amzn.asia/d/dhkt0hd) connected to an
| Swfoto Arca-Swiss tablet holder (link below in this
| thread).
| dwighttk wrote:
| Aw man, not your fault, but the Amazon app does not
| handle the switch from US to Japan store smoothly _at
| all_
| opan wrote:
| https://www.amazon.com/Neewer-Portable-Desktop-Mini-
| Tripod/d...
|
| amazon.com link to what I believe is the same product.
| nailer wrote:
| Same here - a photo would be great! I want a portal
| monitor but it has to be at eyeheight. Otherwise I will
| use a crappy laptop raiser thing.
| darkteflon wrote:
| Yep, this is at eye height. For me this solution is
| better than using a laptop raiser because: you get two
| displays instead of one, and in a setup no wider than a
| laptop, and you don't need to pack an external keyboard,
| mouse and/or trackpad. Plus a tripod and portable display
| packs way better than most laptop raisers I've seen.
|
| The upper display becomes your main display, the lower
| one your secondary. You still have to look down sometimes
| at the secondary but that is vastly better than craning
| your neck the whole time.
|
| Edit: [Pic](https://imgur.com/a/sdLmYJG). Bad photo but
| you get the idea. In reality, both those panels are
| perfectly angled for viewing when I'm sitting down in
| front of them, with no overlap.
|
| That's great that you guys are into this. I feel like I
| cracked the code with this one. I told my irl friends and
| they just shrugged.
| tmikaeld wrote:
| This is EXCELLENT, I've been looking for this the last
| +10 years
|
| Thanks for sharing!
| darkteflon wrote:
| Sibling, stoked to hear that! Enjoy glorious pain-free
| travel productivity.
|
| I often use it at home, too - just to get out of the home
| office from time to time. Can work from the kitchen table
| without compromise. Takes less than a minute to set up.
| Lio wrote:
| I'm not the person you're asking but as Asus already make a
| range of portable monitors you could try one them:
|
| https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ZenScreen/
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| I have two Asus ZenScreen Go MB16AHP. Comes with built in
| battery and a bunch of other great features.
|
| For me, both of them stopped charging and refused to work
| right after warranty ran out. Now they are sitting on my
| shelf waiting to be cannibalized.
|
| I very much enjoyed these screens. They were response,
| relatively light, fit into the bag, and with their own
| battery, I could chug along for hours without issue. Oh
| the joys of getting ready for meetings in airport
| lounges!
|
| So, Asus portable monitors for me were great design, not
| so good implementation.
| CivBase wrote:
| Even with smaller portable monitors, I'd feel a lot more
| comfortable having one in my backpack if the screen wasn't
| exposed.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| FWIW, when I used the Asus portable monitors they came with a
| folio case that covered the screen when it was in a big and
| was used to stand the display up at different angles
| nomel wrote:
| I think XR will end up being a viable, portable, alternative
| before folding screens become widely available.
| bpye wrote:
| Agreed, that's what makes this kind of interesting personally.
| I tend to prefer smaller devices for travel, being able to get
| both that and more screen real estate would be pretty cool.
| alistairSH wrote:
| Not nearly 17", but I've found my iPad Pro makes a reasonable
| second monitor when traveling. It isn't really large enough to
| want to do work on it - I keep those windows on the main laptop
| monitor - but it works as a place to drop email/Slack/misc
| other things.
| Terretta wrote:
| I advocate this as well. It's superior in almost all ways to
| the portable screens of which I've tried many, and you also
| have an iPad, ideally with cellular chip. :-) On many short
| trips you can leave the actual laptop at home.
| Jcowell wrote:
| The caveat is that to can't be used without an Apple ID ,
| making it unusable for work devices. (Amazing for personal
| devices though)
| 65 wrote:
| Needless complexity, similar to folding phones no one found a use
| for. It makes for really great YouTube tech content but is mostly
| just a direct downgrade in everyday usability.
| taf2 wrote:
| at least according to all the Asus laptop fixes from
| https://northridgefix.com/ - these are probably pretty unreliable
| laptops... like probably a capacitor will fail causing a short
| that prevents the laptop from charging after less than a year...
| taf2 wrote:
| here's a good example of an Asus laptop charging issue:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4_SzzorYn4
| crakhamster01 wrote:
| Pretty cool tech, but from the Dave2D video, the crease +
| bulkiness is still bad enough to be a dealbreaker for me (and I
| imagine many others as well).
|
| I find it interesting that companies like Asus, Samsung, etc.
| frequently put out these devices that feature emerging tech, but
| clearly aren't ready for primetime. You would never catch Apple
| releasing something like this since they have brand value to
| protect, but Asus seems to be fine risking that in order to claim
| the title of "first to market".
|
| One day this tech will be ready for the masses, and I imagine
| that's when Apple will release something. Why are companies like
| Asus spending money on marketing that "warms up" the general
| audience to this tech, only to have Apple come eat their lunch a
| few years later?
| colinmhayes wrote:
| Apple released that butterfly keyboard. The MacBook line was
| absolutely suffering for years until the redesign that came
| with m1
| laumars wrote:
| Rise tinted glasses much? Apple have had more than their fair
| share of bad tech. Such as fanless computers overheating,
| keyboards that break, monitor hinges that tear the monitor
| cable, and the first iPhone had fewer features than many of the
| "dumb" feature phones released years prior.
|
| I say this as someone who owns a lot of Apple hardware too. So
| this isn't some anti Apple bias
|
| Moreover it's pretty absurd to say that hugely popular products
| aren't ready for the prime time. The fact they're popular and
| sell well means they precisely were.
| crakhamster01 wrote:
| Haha yea maybe my glasses are a little tinted, but I think
| you're conflating two different points. Apple has released
| flawed products in the past, but they rarely (never?) include
| emerging tech that isn't polished enough for mainstream
| consumption. I say this as a former Android user who loved
| touting that "Android had that feature first", but it's hard
| to deny that features like mobile payments have just been
| executed better by Apple.
|
| Also, since when are foldable OLEDs hugely popular?
| laumars wrote:
| I've seen plenty of people round my way sporting those
| phones.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| The Galaxy Z Flip 3 has been a massive hit, and the much
| more expensive Fold 3 has likewise seen unexpectedly high
| sales: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-sold-more-
| foldables...
| crakhamster01 wrote:
| How do you define "massive hit"? That article cited an
| estimate of 9M foldable smartphones being sold in 2021 -
| compared to 1.4B total smartphone sales last year (~1.12B
| just looking at Android).
|
| That's less than 1%, no?
| sudosysgen wrote:
| You should compare them to the ultra premium category.
| These devices aren't competing with the massive majority
| of cheap androids.
|
| Given that Samsung sold around 20-25 million S21s, it is
| absolutely a massive hit.
| saghm wrote:
| > Apple has released flawed products in the past, but they
| rarely (never?) include emerging tech that isn't polished
| enough for mainstream consumption.
|
| I'm not sure "they screw up well-established and fully-
| functional tech rather than new, innovative, and risky
| tech" is really that good a compliment.
| bhupy wrote:
| Eh, I'm not sure it's fair to suggest that they screw up
| well-established tech -- at least in a significant way.
| They've certainly had a few misses, but they've had a
| _ton_ of at-bats.
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| sure, but the original topic was whether or not the
| misses exceed zero, not the batting average
| solarkraft wrote:
| They also keep questioning the status quo with what's
| already established, which is something I really like.
| Most are stuck with local maxima because they're afraid
| to change things that "work" (badly) while Apple dares to
| change things for (in their opinion) the better.
|
| It's usually small things, but they add up over time and
| now they have a massive edge.
|
| ... oh, in the last few generations they also managed to
| integrate "normal" stuff like double tap to wake to
| iPhones as well, I was pretty pleased to find that that
| just worked.
| solarkraft wrote:
| > I say this as a former Android user who loved touting
| that "Android had that feature first", but it's hard to
| deny that features like mobile payments have just been
| executed better by Apple.
|
| This, but like 10x. It's like most non-Apple manufacturers
| just bash shit together without ever looking whether it
| even works and then lose interest in 1 or 2 generations.
|
| Apple eventually comes along and uses the technology to
| _provide actual value_ and people on HN are surprised that
| this time people actually like it.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| Apple have rarely been the first to do stuff in the past
| 10/20 years. They have, however, been frequently the
| first to do something _really well_.
| woojoo666 wrote:
| Apple is still far behind on pro tablet game. I had an
| iPad Pro and it was extremely clunky to use. Multitasking
| is a mess with three different systems to learn [1],
| people resort to bizarre hacks to get the keyboard to
| work at different angles [2], the app ecosystem is still
| lacking, etc. Sure it fits some people's use cases, but
| you could say that about the Asus and Samsung folding
| screen products too. The idea that Apple always gets
| things right and "provides value" to the masses is
| absurd.
|
| Oh, and let's not forget about 3D touch, or the macbook
| touch bar. How did those do after 1-2 years?
|
| [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFgYGBtJLnI
|
| [2]: https://twitter.com/mattgemmell/status/1252612743942
| 885376
| sascha_sl wrote:
| AirPower is the example you're looking for. They decided to
| cancel it instead of shipping a product that'd not be up to
| their standards.
| upupandup wrote:
| It's ridiculous how much of a premium people pay towards
| Apple.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| Value is relative. Take the iPod. I would rather pay the
| premium for it even though it does much the same as
| competitors. Because it does it _just that little bit
| better_ , that's still worth a lot more.
| samstave wrote:
| > _" You would never catch Apple releasing something like this
| since they have brand value to protect_"
|
| -
|
| Do you recall the original iphone lacked a bunch of really
| "duh" features at first. The main one being no copy+paste?
|
| Sure, Apple has made mistakes...
|
| No way to iron out the wrinkles in your foldable OLED screens
| until you get enough people to try them on first.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| You're being way too defensive here.
|
| The iPhone was revolutionary, lacking some software features
| at launch was nothing that couldn't be fixed.
|
| What the post above clearly means is releasing hardware
| that's still a few iterations from being "mainstream
| appealing"
|
| If you actually follow the story of the iPhone, Apple could
| have released a bulkier more primitive version, but Steve
| Jobs refused because it wouldn't have mainstream appeal.
|
| And Apple just seems to be more conservative in the feature
| wars in general. They held out the longest on OLEDs, they
| held out the longest on 120hz, etc. all until it was
| practically "boring" tech.
| samstave wrote:
| My only point was, that sure the FOLED is new, but heck, I
| had the first gen iPhone on day one, and every single
| version up to X
|
| So, Sure, its novel - but give it a try.
|
| I am not being overly defensive of apple, I am saying, this
| is the HN croud, I have always been an early adopter, ever
| since the 80s...
|
| So I dont poo-poo on this thing. I love it.
|
| The only feature I _really_ want this machine to have is
| IP68 waterproofing or better.
|
| Imagine a smaller size of this device that attached to a
| divers arm, but can be 'curved' to the shape of the SCU-
| Bracer-9000.
| laumars wrote:
| The stuff you're critiquing does have mainstream appeal
| though. If it didn't they wouldn't sell well. Yet they do.
|
| Honestly, the views here smack more of elitism than any
| deep understanding of what the mainstream like.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| You're completely misunderstanding what I don't think is
| a difficult point.
|
| Don't look at sales of the folding phones for example...
| look at sales at the very first folding phone (low
| production Samsung model)
|
| Look at sales of not 120hz screens, but the _first_ 120hz
| (spoiler: It was a low production Razer gaming phone)
|
| Look at the laptop linked here... clearly it is not meant
| to sell in mainstream numbers like a Macbook
|
| -
|
| Other companies seem to be ok with releasing what are
| essentially prototypes with production bodies. There's
| bound to be teething issues, but they're ok with that.
|
| And the _feature_ might have mainstream appeal, but the
| entire _device_ they release it on does not... at least
| not in the current iteration.
|
| Apple on the other hand seems to only want to release
| once they can release in full force and maximum
| widespread appeal.
| laumars wrote:
| I understand your point perfectly fine. What you're doing
| is cherry picking examples to suit a personal bias and
| ignoring the fact that some of your examples of "unready
| technology" not only sell well but are hugely loved by
| those who own it.
|
| Take the Samsung phone you're citing. One of my non-
| technical friends has one and absolutely loves it.
|
| Plenty of companies have successful products with
| hardware that you consider beneath you. And Apple have
| released plenty of hardware that has absolutely been
| unfit for mass market. The destination you're making here
| is purely your own bias.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Again, being way way _way_ too defensive, and completely
| missing the point because you 're so focused on being as
| combative as possible.
|
| Things like the Galaxy Fold are successful products
| _aimed at non-mainstream scale_.
|
| No one is calling those features useless, or unappealing,
| it's the _entire package_ that is _intentionally_ not
| marketed for the mainstream.
|
| -
|
| It's ironic because you seem to be getting increasingly
| upset thinking that this is all pro-Apple propaganda,
| when the reality is I'm saying Apple is afraid of taking
| risk and iterates internally instead of externally which
| isn't necessarily a good thing... we've seen that with
| AirPower for example.
|
| Odd how some people get about these companies, this
| really shouldn't be such an emotional topic, it's pretty
| much non-debatable that Apple doesn't really do the kind
| of device in this post, while other manufacturers do.
| laumars wrote:
| I'm not getting emotional. I'm simply tell you that
| you're wrong.
|
| If you feel there is an emotional component to this
| discussion then that is something you are injecting
| yourself.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| > Plenty of companies have successful products with
| hardware that you consider beneath you.
|
| That's a crazy emotional statement and a completely wrong
| interpretation of what was written!
|
| I'm saying these are features that are _so cutting edge
| they can 't even be packaged in mainstream hardware_...
| and you transformed that into me calling them "beneath
| me" because you're rationally interpreting what I write?
| Or emotionally responding without comprehending. The
| latter no?
| laumars wrote:
| I'm not being emotional. That phrase was chosen because,
| as I've posted already, my opinion of your comments is
| that the differentiator here is nott technology but
| rather your preferences in technology. You then go on to
| argue your preferences as being better than other peoples
| (by proxy due to dismissing other peoples preferences as
| "not ready"). Hence why I considered your opinion to be
| one of elitism rather than a pragmatic evaluation.
|
| But since you've degraded this conversation into a
| pointless meta-debate about whether I'm getting emotional
| or not (I'm clearly not but would it really matter if I
| were?), shall we just agree to disagree and get on with
| our lives? It's pretty obvious no constructive discussion
| is going to come from our discourse.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| > You then go on to argue your preferences as being
| better than other peoples
|
| Show one example of this. A single place where I say or
| remotely imply anything about either strategy is better
| than anything.
|
| In fact, show one place where I show a preference. You're
| literally _imagining my preferences_. After all, I 've
| owned some of these devices... I've owned the first 4k
| phone (an Xperia), I've owned interesting low volume
| hardware like lightfield tablets and cameras.
|
| -
|
| I am saying that brand new tech _that literally cannot be
| scaled_ , like can't even be manufactured in mainstream
| numbers, is released by some manufacturers, but not by
| others.
|
| Like it's not even an opinion, it's a statement of fact
| which is why it's mind-blowing that it's gone this far in
| back and forth, and again, makes me look for meta reasons
| why this is even an argument...
|
| -
|
| > I'm clearly not but would it really matter if I were?
|
| I guess I was being charitable in assuming the reason why
| you:
|
| - missed so many plainly stated points
|
| - keep using really combative retorts like "you think
| your preferences are better than others'"
|
| - keep putting words I never said or implied in my mouth
|
| Was emotion... but it might just be malice? So yes, I
| enthusiastically agree to disagree.
| codethief wrote:
| Not sure I'd want to iron my foldable OLED screen just to get
| it straight again.
| a-saleh wrote:
| This looks very simmilar to the thinkpad one. And I can't seem to
| find the price?
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| Great idea. Not cheap I assume.
|
| Like msft the desktop display model. If it also helped in mac ...
| then cost not an issue.
| Hippocrates wrote:
| It blows my mind that companies have the resources to sink into
| "innovations" like this that are just so far out that they are
| sure to fail. The mere sight of this stresses me out with how
| fragile it looks, and how clumsy it would be to use
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| How did that foldable phone craze a few years ago go? Are they
| still around?
| rowanG077 wrote:
| Ya they are still around. Getting steadily less expensive.
| asdajksah2123 wrote:
| Not just around, but growing rapidly.
|
| https://omdia.tech.informa.com/pr/2022-mar/omdia-foldable-
| sm...
| user_named wrote:
| It's still going. I remember I t ied one in person, felt like
| a layer of tape on top of two displays.
| flatiron wrote:
| IIRC the first thing people did with those phones is rip
| the "tape" off just to realize their phone was now broken.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| That was just the first Galaxy fold. On the later ones
| you can safely remove the screenprotector
| muro wrote:
| They are around and actually very good. I got a flip 3 for my
| wife and I wish I got one myself, too. While not bad, the
| camera could be better - I like the pixel camera more.
| asdajksah2123 wrote:
| Why does it look any more fragile than an iPad, for example?
| o_m wrote:
| An iPad have no moving mechanical parts, and are in an
| aluminum body that doesn't flex.
| rasz wrote:
| Iphone 6 says hi
| https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/270055-documents-
| reveal-a...
|
| apple decided to use a paper sticker in place of metal
| shield, turns out whoever designed the phone in the first
| place used that metal shield as a structural element. No
| shield = bendy phone = Touch IC just so happen to be
| located at the bend and its balls pop off. You end up with
|
| https://www.lifewire.com/iphone-touch-disease-4120914
| jsheard wrote:
| We haven't solved the "bendable glass" problem yet, so
| foldable displays are made of soft plastic which is
| _extremely_ easy to damage compared to the toughened glass
| you 're accustomed to. You can put a permanent dent in them
| with your fingernail if you're not careful.
| anony999 wrote:
| The innovations in this area are incremental so you won't get
| the best out of it now. Investment into bending oled already
| went into smartphones so migrating it to laptops doest require
| signifiant capital. I would take this over a new set of "emoji
| innovation" and new OS skin/theme anytime.
|
| I must confess that I like bending/folding screens and "rolling
| screens" even more (i.e. for TVs). I would fold my iphone if I
| could(assuming that the screen would not get worse) and I would
| love to double the screensize of my macbook air or shink it
| into an ipad.
| deltathreetwo wrote:
| The iphone was at one point in time the same innovation as this
| and at that time there were plenty of people like you calling
| it an "obvious" failure.
|
| At the time people were talking about how hard and clumsy it
| was to type on and getting your finger grease all over the
| screen of the phone.
| nottorp wrote:
| No. If companies didn't sink resources into "innovations" like
| this you'd still travel around on faster horses.
|
| Let them burn some budget on crazy ideas, some will stick.
| skilled wrote:
| Now I am genuinely curious why I have the psychological impulse
| to immediately think to myself "disaster" whenever I see one of
| these folding screens. I guess I have Samsung to thank for that.
| And I doubt I am alone in this sentiment.
|
| Good on Asus for making bold moves. I've got one of their laptops
| as my primary machine for the last couple of years and it has
| been as reliable as the best of them.
| bbertelsen wrote:
| For me personally, this is exactly what I want. On days where I
| have meetings. It's a tablet for note taking. On days where I'm
| studying, it's a PDF reader either in 12.5" mode or 17" mode
| depending on the symbols. On days where I'm coding I would
| probably pair this with a g915 tlk and a second 15" portable
| monitor. That's a very reasonable workstation in a bag and
| wouldn't be heavy at all. The flexibility to be different types
| of devices in just one laptop is excellent. Where do I buy it?
| martijn_himself wrote:
| I don't really get the appeal of folding screens, but then I
| didn't get the appeal of iPads when it was announced.
|
| One thing I would love is an iPhone / iPad that docks and dual
| boots into macOS powering a monitor- surely that should be
| technically possible by now.
| alberth wrote:
| Anyone who works on a job site will love this (e.g. architects,
| electricians, plumbers, etc).
|
| Much like on the other extremely, pilots absolutely love the
| tiny iPad Mini because it can easily fit in the cockpit (and
| even be mounted to the windshield).
| pmontra wrote:
| For a laptop, it's a small machine with a large screen. For a
| desktop, don't know.
|
| This is probably going to cost a lot and installing Linux would
| probably mean to forfeit all the screen modes except one (I
| don't expect much driver support - but maybe xrandr?) anyway I
| can see me buying something like that.
|
| Too bad for the missing touchpad buttons (three of them, this
| is almost a deal breaker), wonderful not having a number pad, I
| didn't check if it can be upgraded (RAM, SSD) and which ports
| it has. My wishes: video, ethernet, 3.5 audio jack, at least
| two USB A 3.0, USB C would be ok, I bet there are adapters for
| old hardware.
| sumedh wrote:
| > but then I didn't get the appeal of iPads when announced.
|
| Let me guess you dont have kids.
| martijn_himself wrote:
| I do see the appeal now, just not when it was announced in
| 2010 (I think a lot of people didn't at the time).
| ndiddy wrote:
| In early childhood, children's brains will rapidly adapt to
| their environment (https://academic.oup.com/pch/article/11/9/
| 571/2648303?login=...), for example Aboriginal Australian
| children develop strong spatial cognition to survive in an
| environment with few landmarks (https://www.sciencedirect.com
| /science/article/abs/pii/001002...). It'll be interesting to
| see what happens when the generation of children whose brains
| have adapted to oversaturated, constantly changing,
| narrative-free stimuli by being raised on YouTube Kids
| reaches adulthood.
| sumedh wrote:
| You can make the same arguments in the past about kids
| watching TV and then kids using a PC.
|
| In 10 years, parents will be complaining about AR/VR
| rpmisms wrote:
| > You can make the same arguments in the past about kids
| watching TV and then kids using a PC.
|
| Yes. This is true, and they're still valid complaints. I
| grew up (currently in my 20s) without a TV or PC with a
| GUI.
|
| > In 10 years, parents will be complaining about AR/VR
|
| Same potential for completely ruining kids, if not worse.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > It'll be interesting to see what happens when the
| generation of children whose brains have adapted to
| oversaturated, constantly changing, narrative-free stimuli
| by being raised on YouTube Kids reaches adulthood.
|
| This sounds word for word like worries about the first
| generation of children raised with ready access to TVs.
| cowtools wrote:
| It could be a difference in kind, not merely a difference
| in degree. Besides, who is to say that TV did not have
| negative effects?
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Not parent and I don't have kids but if I did, there's no way
| I'm giving them an ipad.
|
| They can have coloring books, crayons, Legos and building
| blocks, doll houses, physical plastic, wooden and plush toys,
| restricted access to PCs/consoles, but no portable smart
| devices with screens, online connection and spyware apps.
|
| By kids I'm talking about pre-teens. They can get smart
| devices when they're teenagers.
| eddieroger wrote:
| Unless your kids are network engineers who can join wifi
| networks or get around firewalls, or hackers who can defeat
| parental controls, you should be able to control what they
| do on an iPad pretty easily, including making it an offline
| device. You can even lock them in to a single app if you
| really wanted to.
| can16358p wrote:
| So... the kids will probably not have much friends as all
| the other kids will be socializing online even if that's
| inferior to physical friendship.
|
| Good or bad, that is the norm now and if you don't let your
| kid access to a tablet while all the other kids do, that
| child will be lacking a lot of confidence and practical
| tech skills.
|
| A balance with both iPad time and physical activity time
| would be a better tradeoff IMO.
| ccbccccbbcccbb wrote:
| The society where children "will probably" have less
| friends for not having a key to access this privilege, in
| this case a gadget, is totally FUBAR.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| In Europe kids meet and play outside IRL, no need for
| ipads to socialize.
| iasay wrote:
| My kids, even the 9 year old, organise with their friends
| via iMessage, so YMMV on that...
|
| Teach them it's a tool and guide them on how to use it
| responsibly.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> My kids, even the 9 year old, organise with their
| friends via iMessage_
|
| That's mostly an American thing.
|
| _> Teach them it's a tool and guide them on how to use
| it responsibly._
|
| Don't know about your kids or your childhood, but I
| always did what was cool and not what my parents told me
| is responsible.
| iasay wrote:
| I'm in Europe...
|
| My childhood was irrelevant as was yours. Time changes.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> I'm in Europe..._
|
| Then how do your kids communicate with those who only
| have android devices? That's a big social issue among
| teens in the US.
|
| iMessage is never popular in Europe, as everyone here
| uses cross platform apps like Whatsapp, Telegram,
| Snapchat, etc. due to the lower market share of IOS vs
| Andorid.
|
| Your case seems like an outlier.
| iasay wrote:
| I have WhatsApp as well. None of our kids have Android
| devices as you can't control them adequately.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> Android devices as you can't control them adequately_
|
| What's missing on Android that Apple has for control?
| iasay wrote:
| one browser engine across the whole platform and white
| listed content filters.
| cowtools wrote:
| What prevents you from just using your own browser with
| your own parental safety controls, and then sand-boxing
| the user from installing other apps?
| iasay wrote:
| Some of the auto updated apps have a history of adding
| circumventable embedded browsers in about boxes and
| things on Android which can be used to browse the
| internet. This happens on iOS too but the browser engine
| is safari and is subject to the same white lists as
| normal Safari.
|
| This is a fairly large security concern if I'm honest
| generally.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > Good or bad, that is the norm now and if you don't let
| your kid access to a tablet while all the other kids do,
| that child will be lacking a lot of confidence and
| practical tech skills.
|
| I'm pretty sure most of us on HN grew up without access
| to iPads, but still somehow developed practical tech
| skills, including the ability to learn to use iPads.
| can16358p wrote:
| We've grown up to something technically harder-to-use
| than an iPad, and I'm comparing today's equivalent.
|
| If we normalize this to current HN audience's childhood
| (roughly), it's more like not touching a computer and not
| seeing a modem until 20s, while all the kids know at
| least how to turn a computer, use Windows Explorer/Mac
| Finder, developed motor skills to use a keyboard
| efficiently, know how to modify Word docs etc. and the
| social norm is knowing all these things (as opposed to
| our chilhood).
|
| Sure, a legendary hacker might arise after touching a
| computer first time after 20s, but much less likely.
| JadeNB wrote:
| Certainly, but all the technology with which we grew up
| is still out there. A kid who hasn't had an iPad is not
| automatically a kid who hasn't had any hands-on
| experience with technology, and, while I can imagine
| there's some debate here about whether or not it's
| feasible to raise a child in today's world without an
| iPad or equivalent device--I'm not a parent, and so
| wouldn't presume to participate--I can't imagine anyone
| here advancing the position that "I'll raise my kid
| without any kind of 'hacking' experience."
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| It's not like iPads are some complex niche tech that
| needs to be learned from an early age otherwise you fall
| behind and miss out.
| ccbccccbbcccbb wrote:
| Haha, man, gotta love how you get downvoted for wanting to
| be a proper loving father and not someone who outsources
| the upbringing of their children to youtube and roblox!
| lwhi wrote:
| From knowing parents, I'd be willing to bet you'd
| eventually change your mind ..
| sumedh wrote:
| There are some things which you should not answer unless
| you have experienced it yourself. Having kids is one of
| them.
|
| All your activity sounds good on paper but real life does
| not work like that. Kids are smart, they can see you are on
| your smart device, they can see others are on their
| phones/ipads when they go outside. You dont want your kid
| to be a social outcast.
|
| Sometimes when you want to do your chores or want some
| quiet time for yourself the best solution is to give your
| kids an ipad so that they remain busy.
| cowtools wrote:
| I don't think that's a responsible attitude to have. "You
| dont want your kid to be a social outcast", sure, but
| sometimes you have to lay down the law. That starts with
| setting an example yourself.
|
| If you're always on your phone, you're sending your
| children the social signal that that's OK.
| dest wrote:
| Parent of three, eldest is 8. For quiet time, she reads a
| book. No screens, no smart devices.
| martijn_himself wrote:
| I agree this is a good attitude and start off point for
| parents-to-be but I have to agree with other commenters
| that it is impractical and goes out the window pretty
| quickly unless you have nerves of steel :). Imagine for
| example being on a flight with a toddler throwing a
| tantrum, for the sake of everyone's sanity an iPad is a
| wonderful device.
|
| Having said that it is all about balance, and limiting
| screen time is a good way to go about it.
| prmoustache wrote:
| > agree this is a good attitude and start off point for
| parents-to-be but I have to agree with other commenters
| that it is impractical and goes out the window pretty
| quickly unless you have nerves of steel :). Imagine for
| example being on a flight with a toddler throwing a
| tantrum, for the sake of everyone's sanity an iPad is a
| wonderful device.
|
| It doesn't have to be the kid's iPad though.
|
| We have a "family" nintendo switch. I sure don't mind if
| they play with it on the plane, but at home they only
| have access to it on request and within a limited time.
| Same as for a laptop if they want to watch something or
| my eldest daughter's phone. There is no way these devices
| stay in their room either. I give them an allotted time,
| and all these devices need to get back to my office where
| the charging cables are once time is over. And if for
| some reason they try to cheat and use the fact I am busy
| with something to not take notice they are still using
| it, they get punished for a week without access to said
| device.
|
| In the end I am glad my daughters are so creative and
| spend so much time drawing, building things with
| cardboard, glue and tape, or play outside. Usually screen
| time is limited to when I am cooking for dinner, after
| they took a shower. They still aren't stranger to tech
| but don't need to be hooked on social medias. My
| daughter's phone is mostly used to play music and for
| whatsapp, as well as camera when we go out. But since her
| time on it is limited, every comm is asynchronous and
| doesn't end with her having to answer to every single
| notification right away.
| iasay wrote:
| Some parenting advice: if your toddler loses their
| marbles, do not pacify them with a reward. That's a
| seriously bad idea.
|
| I found the best low stress and low effort solution was
| to be a larger drama than they are. This culminated in
| myself lying on the floor in the Lakeside shopping centre
| in the UK screaming my head off. Oh yes I can do it too.
| And it makes you look like a dick when I do it. Make sure
| you talk to them at the same level afterwards. You are
| now equals :)
|
| She never did it again after that and has been a joy.
| Advice has worked for other people.
| iasay wrote:
| It's a tool. Another creative outlet. I bought my kids
| ipads and apple pencils and they love them. My eldest, now
| at university bought a new iPad Pro recently and uses that
| exclusively as her work computer.
|
| What you're doing is enforcing a semi-luddite position on
| your own kids because you can only leave them unattended
| with old things. Just be a parent ffs.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> I bought my kids ipads and apple pencils and they love
| them_
|
| Sure, but kids also love eating only sweets, watching
| cartoons and playing videogames all day, that doesn't
| mean it's always good for them.
|
| Don't physical pencils and paper work the same without
| the downsides for kids, like staring into a bright
| screen?
|
| And by kids I meant 3-12 year olds, not Teenagers and
| college age kids who need an ipad for study and
| productivity.
| iasay wrote:
| Correct. That's what parenting is for, not prohibition
| ludditism.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| But parenting means also setting boundaries and not
| always indulging kids with the latest internet connected
| shiny toys.
|
| That's not ludditism IMHO.
| sbuk wrote:
| > But parenting means also setting boundaries and not
| always indulging kids with the latest internet connected
| shiny toys.
|
| You could just leave off the "...with the latest internet
| connected shiny toys."
| iasay wrote:
| Correct. That's not exclusive to my points.
| sbuk wrote:
| My child is 4. They prefer fruit and vegetables over
| sweets. Milk or water over soft drinks. They come home
| from nursery and, in the warmer months, play outside with
| their friends until 7pm. They also draw and do "craft",
| and we do "science" together (make slime etc). They also
| have a base model iPad.
|
| It's locked down using a combination of Apple's parental
| controls, controls on the router and NextDNS. The level
| of pedagogic software available on the platform is
| excellent, especially for preschool. There are also other
| 'games', like Crayola's Create and Play[0] app (available
| for Android too) which are fun, engaging, creative and
| educational.
|
| Like it or not, this is the world they are going to grow
| up in. It's the parents job to teach them to be
| responsible with everything, from sweets to using
| technology. Kids aged 3-12 can get as much out of a
| device like an iPad as any teenager.
|
| Just don't install Youtube/Youtube Kids...
| parski wrote:
| Oh my god. A 4:3 OLED panel? My dreams coming true!
| CivBase wrote:
| As a replacement for my laptop, I hate this. But as an auxiliary
| tablet, this is much more interesting. If I had a good use case
| for a tablet, a folding one that runs Windows sounds much more
| appealing than a flat tablet running Android or iPadOS.
|
| My biggest complaint is that I see no indication that this could
| accept a video input and double as a portable display. If it did
| that, I would start to consider something like this for myself
| even without an obvious use case for a tablet.
| canbus wrote:
| What problem do folding screens actually solve?
| alt227 wrote:
| Wanting a bigger screen but not having enough space to
| transport or store it.
| ccbccccbbcccbb wrote:
| The problem of service life being too long, which brings
| profits down.
| varispeed wrote:
| I really didn't want to do this, but I bit the bullet and bought
| M1 MacBook Pro. Oh, having previously worked on XPS 15, this
| laptop is like next level in terms of pretty much everything. I
| feel like manufacturers putting Intel or (to an extent) AMD
| processor in any laptop just waste their time. Sure there will be
| people who will buy it (who don't know about M1/M2), but it's
| like buying a legacy technology for premium price. So while the
| folding screen looks impressive, I can't help but think it is
| just an expensive gimmick. Rather than churning very much the
| same laptops year on year I wish manufacturers spent some time on
| designing a new CPU if Intel and AMD can't keep up or trying to
| license the CPU tech from Apple.
| hu3 wrote:
| Problem with Apple computers is their software. Hardware is
| great though.
|
| Until it can run Linux smoothly it will be undesirable for me.
| viraptor wrote:
| You're comparing an (I'm guessing) few years old xps that
| needed replacing, to a last year's premium quality/pricing
| laptop. I know Intel is still behind on efficiency, but you
| should try a 12th gen with p/e cores before you write the whole
| thing off as legacy.
|
| Also I'm not sure apple wants to license anything - they're
| doing quite well keeping the design to themselves.
| varispeed wrote:
| I had a couple of generations of XPS and I am not convinced
| it will be much different. I watched a few comparison videos
| on YT and there was no contest. Laptop would have to be
| constantly plugged to achieve similar performance to M1 and
| the fans... the fans is a deal breaker for me. Intel is far
| far behind now, even with the 12th gen.
| chmod775 wrote:
| I found this sentence to be hilarious:
|
| > The color-accurate 2.5K slim-bezel NanoEdge Dolby Vision screen
| is also PANTONE(r) Validated with TUV Rheinland-certified low
| blue-light levels.
|
| It's the second sentence on the page, prominently at the top. Do
| they expect the average consumer knows what any of that means?
|
| There's more made up marketing BS there than English.
| ballenf wrote:
| They're counting on their target market to feel superior to
| others by knowing (or pretending to know) and thus being more
| likely purchase.
|
| These statements also give purchasers psychological cover for
| spending an exorbitant amount. This is not some overpriced
| pedestrian device.
| ansgri wrote:
| Unfortunately this proprietary marketing-speak BS makes it easy
| to sell to creative professionals and those who care about
| color, and does signal somewhat well-defined properties.
|
| DolbyVision works well if you have the proprietary stack (it's
| the format newer iPhones shoot HDR videos in -- and even
| DaVinci Resolve didn't support it last I checked), and PANTONE
| does reasonably solve the important problem of color matching.
| belter wrote:
| I though OLED burn-in was still a real issue?
|
| "How real is risk of OLED burn in?":
| https://www.reddit.com/r/4kTV/comments/r0l7cj/how_real_is_ri...
|
| "Being an Early Adopter SUCKS - Trying to Fix Burn-in on my LG
| CX": https://youtu.be/hWrFEU_605g
| ornornor wrote:
| I've had an OLED tv from Panasonic that I used quite
| extensively for the last 3 years and there is absolutely no
| burn in whatsoever on it.
|
| I was worried about it when I got it but loved how black the
| backs are so I bought it anyway.
|
| No regrets. I remember a renowned panels review site doing
| extensive tests on each and it basically took them two years of
| full brightness always on torture to have burnin on the tv
| stations markee and around the presenters face. They really
| overdid it and so I decided it's not a realistic risk for my
| usage.
| april_22 wrote:
| Yes they have improved the panels so much the past couple of
| years. The blacks are just so amazing on OLEDs!
| belter wrote:
| Do you use it with a computer?
| nottorp wrote:
| How about a console? There's the menu screen with no moving
| pictures, and I have the habit of leaving games paused for
| extended periods while i get on with life. That worries me
| should i get an OLED.
| belter wrote:
| "OLED burn-in: should you be worried about it? And how
| can you prevent it?" (2021):
| https://www.whathifi.com/advice/oled-burn-in-should-you-
| be-w...
|
| "...while technological improvements mean OLED burn in
| (often called image retention by manufacturers because
| that sounds less scary) is less likely to hit an OLED TV
| than it used to be, the actions of the manufacturers
| themselves prove that the issue hasn't completely gone
| away..."
|
| "...It's pretty obvious from both the messaging of OLED
| TV manufacturers about screen burn and the extreme
| lengths they go to to combat it that nobody who buys an
| OLED TV can yet afford to completely ignore the issue.
| That said, all the latest evidence suggests that - for
| most 'regular' TV users, at least - the issue is now much
| less likely to appear than it used to be..."
| nottorp wrote:
| I'd prefer some anecdata from people actually owning oled
| TVs ;)
|
| Like "I always forget to shut down my PS5 when i stop
| playing and I have/don't have burn in on my oled tv".
| belter wrote:
| Agree.
|
| Quite visible at least here:
| https://youtu.be/hWrFEU_605g?t=105
| wslh wrote:
| Nice system but it is ironic that nowadays many people are moving
| to Apple Silicon just for the battery. Beyond the better specs
| like touch screens, cameras resolution, etc.
|
| Going back in time I just now recognize and remember that one key
| aspect of the Palm original devices was battery duration
| comparing to previous experience (e.g. Newton) in innovations.
| varispeed wrote:
| For me the battery was the least of concern - I am used to
| having my laptop plugged at all times. Any laptop I had
| wouldn't last more than an hour on battery after few months of
| use.
|
| The selling point for me was silent operation and performance.
| For instance, my XPS 15 will wake up fans even after entering
| the BIOS and just opening a browser tab with a heavier website
| would make them fans spin like airplane blades. It's so
| annoying that I dread everytime I have to work on it. Yes, I
| would clean the fans regularly etc.
|
| Working on a Mac M1 is a pure bliss. It feels next level in
| every aspect and the battery life is outstanding. The fact that
| I can run the laptop in low power mode and it is still much
| more performant than my XPS is mindblowing.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-08-05 23:00 UTC)