[HN Gopher] "Code" 2nd Edition Now Available
___________________________________________________________________
"Code" 2nd Edition Now Available
Author : ingve
Score : 371 points
Date : 2022-08-07 16:36 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.charlespetzold.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.charlespetzold.com)
| tux1968 wrote:
| There is a companion website for the book, that is still a work
| in progress:
|
| https://codehiddenlanguage.com/
| sheikheddy wrote:
| Those animated interactive explanations remind me of
| http://explorabl.es/.
|
| I'm really interested in creating some on my own, where can I
| find source code for guides like
| https://github.com/ncase/trust?
| csours wrote:
| Just got my physical copy delivered! Ask me anything. I haven't
| read it, and I only skimmed the first edition.
| password4321 wrote:
| Technically a dupe of this discussion:
|
| "Code" 2nd Edition
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31696901 (June, with over 1k
| points and 170 comments)
|
| per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23071428:
|
| > _What decides whether a follow-up counts as same-ish? Whether
| or not it contains significant new information (SNI), meaning
| whether or not there is enough new information to support an
| interestingly different discussion._
| jgwil2 wrote:
| It's not a dupe: the release date was originally August 19, it
| has been changed to today.
| blowski wrote:
| The new post says it's now on general release, which seems
| pretty significant to me for such a good book.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Prior post was the announcement of the upcoming release, this
| is the announcement of the release. So not quite a dupe, and
| probably worth noting now that it is actually available (and
| available earlier than anticipated).
| password4321 wrote:
| I mean this is pretty specifically what dang explained is
| counted a dupe.
|
| > _Because those things don 't change as a particular release
| goes through its life-cycle of status updates, status updates
| don't count as SNI._
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Well, a major difference here is that 2 months ago this
| edition was not available. Today it is and people can go
| online and purchase it and read it (I'm already through
| chapter 3 of it). Without this post, I, for one, would not
| have known that I could go online _now_ to read it and
| would have been waiting for my preorder. And since it 's a
| rainy Sunday this is a great time for me to get some
| reading in since yard work is out.
| pvg wrote:
| _a major difference here is that 2 months ago this
| edition was not available._
|
| That doesn't change the kind of discussion that takes
| place which is why it's usually the pre-announcements
| that get downweighted.
|
| _Without this post, I, for one, would not have known
| that I could go online now to read it_
|
| Sure but that is at best, a tertiary purpose of HN.
| Something is always new to someone, relevant to someone,
| etc. The dupiness or most other on-topic-ness criteria
| can't really work on that basis.
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Does anyone know what's new in this edition?
|
| I'm much less of a read than I wanted to, but this was a book I
| read from cover to cover almost nonstop on a xmas/new year
| holiday. Remarkably accessible and dense.
| goodcanadian wrote:
| There's not much detail, here, but it gives the gist:
|
| https://www.charlespetzold.com/blog/2022/06/Announcing-Code-...
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Thanks:
|
| "I'll discuss the differences between the two editions in
| detail in a future blog entry. The short explanation is that
| I go much deeper into the workings of a CPU using the Intel
| 8080 as a simple example"
|
| I'll buy for the 70 pages or so on the 8080, for sure.
| aldto wrote:
| If someone buys the Kindle version, can you let us know how the
| formatting looks with all of its diagrams and code?
|
| To get the PDF version I tried buying the e-book collection from
| InformIT, but Pearson (that runs the InformIT and Microsoft
| stores) no longer takes orders from people using a
| "@fastmail.com" e-mail.
| kryptiskt wrote:
| I bought the Kindle version, it looks good to me, the diagrams
| and tables are big and clear.
| cfeduke wrote:
| One of my favorite computer books of all time, along with
| Stephenson's "In the Beginning... Was the Command Line." Happy to
| see a second edition, bought a copy for my kids to read and also
| to support Petzold.
| userbinator wrote:
| I already have the first. Are there any significant differences
| between the two?
| Jtsummers wrote:
| From the preface:
|
| > Those problems would probably have been easy to fix, but
| there existed another aspect of the first edition that
| continued to bother me. I wanted to show the workings of an
| actual CPU--the central processing unit that forms the brain,
| heart, and soul of a computer--but the first edition didn't
| quite make it. I felt that I had gotten close to this crucial
| breakthrough but then I had given up. Readers didn't seem to
| complain, but to me it was a glaring flaw.
|
| > That deficiency has been corrected in this second edition.
| That's why it's some 70 pages longer. Yes, it's a longer
| journey, but if you come along with me through the pages of
| this second edition, we shall dive much deeper into the
| internals of the CPU. Whether this will be a more pleasurable
| experience for you or not, I do not know. If you feel like
| you're going to drown, please come up for air. But if you make
| it through Chapter 24, you should feel quite proud, and you'll
| be pleased to know that the remainder of the book is a breeze.
|
| So yes, some significant difference there, but maybe not worth
| a repurchase unless you just want it for your library or
| specifically want to read his take on that material.
| Julesman wrote:
| Bought. HN for the win.
| jordanmorgan10 wrote:
| The first book was incredible. I've been a programmer for a long
| time - and early in my career is hit me: I have no idea how this
| really works!
|
| How does what I type and program make a computer do a thing? It
| was an incredible read and I can't wait for this one.
| NSMutableSet wrote:
| What is going on with Amazon's listing for the preorder? Seems
| like it's been hijacked by a vendor with terrible ratings
| offering the unreleased book at a high markup, with no way to
| preorder from Amazon at the correct price.
| localhost wrote:
| I preordered directly from the publisher a couple of months ago
| and it arrived this week. Looks like you still can order from
| them today:
|
| https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/store/code-the-hidden-la...
| blinkingled wrote:
| I pre-ordered using MS Press as well - you get the ebooks/PDF
| for free (instant download while you wait for the dead tree
| version to arrive) when you order the hard copy and ebook
| bundle.
| dom96 wrote:
| Just did the same, seems they offer international shipping
| too. It does cost $9 though (but hey, at least I won't have
| to wait until Nov 24th).
| bena wrote:
| Same. Although I nearly thought I was scammed when I saw the
| charge on my credit card because I had completely forgotten
| about it. That and the charge comes from AWL*PEARSON. But
| then I got an email telling me it shipped, I put 2 and 2
| together, then the book arrived a whole day earlier than
| estimated.
| fabiensanglard wrote:
| Same issue with my preorder on Amazon. Placed on July 2 but now
| it states that the item has been delayed. I am being asked to
| approve of it?!
| wiihack wrote:
| I just pre-ordered a copy. The first edition was on my reading
| list for some time now, but there was always something else to
| read. Now seems like a good opportunity to change that :)
| philliphaydon wrote:
| Yay. Hope I get my copy soon. Assuming China doesn't block it.
| _hao wrote:
| In my opinion this book is absolutely essential for anyone even
| remotely interested in computers! Charles Petzold is a true
| master!
| amself wrote:
| and it's already on libgen ;)
| dchuk wrote:
| I woke up this morning to an email from Amazon asking me to
| confirm if I still wanted this book because it's been delayed in
| shipping. Weird I got this the day it was officially released
| considering I preordered it beginning of June...
| tsuujin wrote:
| Fair warning to all: the watermark on the epub purchased from the
| publisher is pretty obnoxious. On Apple Books it floats over
| every page and in some cases covers actual text.
| [deleted]
| greymalik wrote:
| Could you post a screenshot? I'm deciding between the physical
| and digital versions and have never seen a watermark in an
| e-book before.
| tsuujin wrote:
| Sure thing: https://imgur.com/a/4CTsLSD
|
| I'm sure this is software related, and I'm on the iPadOS 16
| beta, so it may be less of an issue for others. On my phone
| it folds into the header and truncates, but on the iPad it is
| super obnoxious.
| greymalik wrote:
| Man, is that obnoxious. Yet another example of a DRM effort
| that will probably inspire more piracy.
| shpx wrote:
| I'll buy an ebook but read a copy from LibGen because
| that version doesn't have my email address as the first
| sentence of every page. It's hard to read books instead
| of doing something more entertaining, this minor
| annoyance doesn't help.
| tsuujin wrote:
| I would honestly just rather have the drm than that
| watermark. Dark pattern success?
| localhost wrote:
| I'm going to be interviewing Charles next week for my podcast.
| Are there questions that you'd like me to ask him?
| enb wrote:
| Can you ask him when his interest in computers/software
| started?
| localhost wrote:
| Absolutely. My goal in the podcast is to learn the stories
| about how (and why) people became the person they are today.
| archielc wrote:
| Sounds amazing. Big fan of his writing style, have two of his
| books: "Code" and "The Annotated Turing".
|
| I'd be curious to learn about his work habits - have they
| changed over the years? Has he experienced any procrastination
| during his career and how he dealt with it? Any advice to those
| who got bored by the challenges of the modern software
| industry?
|
| Only now I found that he has a blog, so it looks like I've got
| some new reading material:
| https://www.charlespetzold.com/blog/toc.html
| localhost wrote:
| I'm really interested about his work habits as well - added
| your questions to my list. Right now I'm procrastinating
| editing my podcast by reading HN :)
|
| Do you have any questions about The Annotated Turing? For me,
| I'm really interested in the story behind why he wrote it. As
| he writes in the introduction:
|
| "Turing's original motivation in writing this paper was to
| solve a problem formulated by German mathematician David
| Hilbert ..."
|
| I want to know Petzold's motivation for writing this. I know
| there's a story behind there somewhere especially given how
| long it took him to write the book :)
| frognumber wrote:
| To a large extent, I'd be interested in his thoughts about
| being open with Code. I'm an immigrant, and I'd love to do it
| with my kid. I'd need to have access to text, and run it
| through a translator to do that. I'm glad to pay the purchase
| fee, but a DRM'ed book is less than helpful.
|
| There are a lot of tools like nandgame which would integrate
| well....
|
| Same thing for adaptations for school curricula, afterschool
| clubs, etc....
|
| I'm not sure the right solution here, but it'd be awesome if
| there were some way to build from his work for specific
| contexts.
| JonathonW wrote:
| I don't know about other stores (like the Microsoft Press
| store), but Code is DRM-free on InformIT, in Epub, PDF, and
| MOBI-- I actually don't think they sell any DRMed eBooks
| (they personalize and watermark each copy to discourage
| sharing, but are otherwise unprotected).
| frognumber wrote:
| Thank you! Looks like I'll be buying a second copy :)
| paledot wrote:
| The PDF I got from the Microsoft Press Store was
| watermarked but DRM free.
| localhost wrote:
| This is a really interesting area to explore - thanks for
| suggesting it! I think that there are quite a few authors who
| have shown that there is a market for the book as well as for
| an open source "edition" of the book. My favorite from the
| past was Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing [1] and
| perhaps more recent is the very complimentary NAND To Tetris
| [2]
|
| I would imagine that the hard part is dealing with the
| publisher and getting them on board with it as well. Added to
| my list!
|
| [1] https://philip.greenspun.com/panda/
|
| [2] https://www.nand2tetris.org/
| frognumber wrote:
| My favorite is SICP.
|
| https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/sicp/full-
| text/... https://web.mit.edu/6.001/6.037/sicp.pdf
|
| It's worth noting the book comes up on most top-10 CS books
| and sells exceptionally well. It's been translated into
| countless languages.
|
| Convincing MIT Press was apparently hard the first time,
| but after the book sold like hotcakes, future books were
| easy.
|
| https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/content
| /...
| localhost wrote:
| Thanks for that example. I had no idea that SICP was now
| available for free on the web! Do you remember where you
| heard the story about convincing MIT Press and the
| outcome? I took a look but couldn't find it.
|
| That might come in handy if this winds up going
| somewhere.
| frognumber wrote:
| It's been available for a long time. You can contact the
| author for the full story. The phone number and office
| are listed here:
|
| https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/
|
| Not everything is web-based. :)
|
| I can guarantee the author will not be offended with
| either a phone call or by someone dropping by. On the
| other hand, he's less often in the office post-COVID, so
| it might take a few tries.
|
| Hal probably knows the story better, but he's a bit less
| drop-in-able. Jerry is super-friendly. (Hal is friendly
| too, but more random contacts go to /dev/null)
| localhost wrote:
| Thanks!
|
| Dropping by would be harder to do, but a dream interview
| would be to put him in a room with Guido van Rossum to
| talk about Python and SICP.
|
| I now need to get over my irrational fear of cold calling
| someone I don't know already (heck, I don't even do that
| with people that I do know - it's always "what's a good
| time to call"?)
| empeyot wrote:
| For us bibliphiles: why has the second edition no hardcover
| version or is it planned?
| RheingoldRiver wrote:
| Similarly: is an audiobook planned? Frequently on reddit
| people ask for recommendations of audiobooks to listen to
| while commuting, and I realize this one is rather image-
| heavy, but I do believe a lot of it could be conveyed in an
| audio format, and it would make for fantastic listening.
| spenrose wrote:
| The Annotated Turing: how has it been received, how does he
| feel about it?
| agumonkey wrote:
| Has he tried to push his book into schools ? It's so simple in
| it's approach yet so pragmatic and large. I wish more topics
| were dealt this way.
| najmlion wrote:
| My lecturer taught us this book in college. It was a really
| nice course : )
| localhost wrote:
| That's cool! Do you mind sharing the course/school? It
| would be a nice thing to share with Charles to show the
| impact that his work has on the world (even though I'm
| pretty sure he knows - it's always nice to be reminded of
| it!)
| wildmanx wrote:
| Where do we find your podcast? http://localhost/ shows really
| weird contents, I probably have the wrong URL.
| kesava wrote:
| It seems to work for me. I see "It works!".
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| According to their profile it's
| https://podcast.pivotalmoments.cc/
| folli wrote:
| Damn, you should go to jail for such content.
| valbaca wrote:
| haha good one. The url is in user's bio
| tambourine_man wrote:
| I wasn't aware of your podcast, subscribed :)
|
| I'd like to know how did he get such deep knowledge of the
| foundations of computing and how he developed the talent for
| explaining complex topics in a simple way.
| localhost wrote:
| Thanks!
|
| This will be a core part of what we'll be talking about. I
| continue to be amazed by people who can explain complex
| topics simply and Charles is near the top of my list of
| people who can do this well. Feynmann and Dave Cutler (if you
| can, find a copy of his NT kernel spec doc) are on that list
| too.
| ripley12 wrote:
| It's not especially related to Code, but Charles is one of the
| all-time greats in Windows programming.
|
| I'd love to hear his thoughts on the current state of Windows:
| what's going well, what should be done differently.
| localhost wrote:
| Sadly, that's an area that he doesn't want to talk about. Not
| really sure why, but it makes me wonder what the story behind
| that stance is, and if I can get him to talk about it.
| ripley12 wrote:
| Ah, that's unfortunate. My (wild, speculative) guess is
| that he's left that part of his career behind, after he was
| burned by the Windows team dropping the ball on native
| development multiple times.
| muststopmyths wrote:
| After the winrt shitshow, he had given up windows and
| started on xamarin IIRC. Don't know if wrote or is
| writing any books for that though.
| codebolt wrote:
| Yes, his book Programming Windows was what took me from
| hopeless newbie to half decent self taught dev while I was
| still in my teens. Taught me loads that I still find use for
| to this day in my career (which involves a lot of Windows
| development).
|
| I wonder if he gets nostalgic for that era of programming,
| and what stack he would choose if he was writing a Windows
| app today.
| javajosh wrote:
| Sure. I'd like to hear about his take on AI, maybe even through
| the lens of policy, and perhaps prompted by this twitter
| thread:
| https://twitter.com/jackclarkSF/status/1555980412333133824.
|
| Also, for anyone needing more context on a book called "Code",
| MS Press has two free chapters, and the TOC, available:
| https://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780137909100/samplep...
| localhost wrote:
| That's an interesting thread. Thanks for sharing.
|
| Not sure if asking about his take on AI will lead anywhere
| though as that's not really his thing. But I'll explore the
| area when we talk about Turing (his other book is the
| Annotated Turing) a bit to see if there's something on the
| other side that I didn't know about.
| hcs wrote:
| I see there's a website for Code with interactive examples (in
| another thread), I wonder if he has a perspective on using
| interactive games for teaching this kind of "build a computer
| from logic gates" material. Examples are the recent "Turing
| Complete", goes back at least to Rocky's Boots on the Apple II.
|
| Has he seen any of these he thought were effective, does he
| think it's a useful approach?
| pjmlp wrote:
| How he sees the current dictomy of Windows development, where
| we kind of have two worlds (.NET and C++), where not every
| business unit seems to drive into the same direction, many of
| which even competing on the same space with different stacks.
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| Any recommendations for a book like "Code" but for computer
| networking? I want a broad introduction to how networking works.
| TedShiller wrote:
| The classic one would be: Unix Network Programming by W.
| Richard Stevens
| fanf2 wrote:
| And TCP/IP Illustrated by the same author.
| resist_futility wrote:
| Computer Networking 1292405465
| matsemann wrote:
| This one is great ("A top down approach"). It takes all
| levels of the network, packages/bytes, signals etc. Very
| interesting read.
| jonsen wrote:
| https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networking-Global-James-
| Kuro...
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| I just purchased this and downloaded the accompanying
| Wireshark labs. Looking forward to diving in although I'll
| probably want to read Code first. Maybe I can do them side by
| side?
| YZF wrote:
| I've always wanted to write a book and this would be an
| interesting idea ;) There's definitely a lot of cool history to
| cover (donno if Code covers a lot of history, haven't read it)
|
| In the mean time I've heard this is good:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/All-New-Switch-Book-Switching-Technol...
|
| And then there's your computer network textbooks like:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Networks-Andrew-S-Tanenbaum/...
|
| I have the second edition sitting on a shelf and couldn't get
| anyone to buy it on ebay ;)
| sarchertech wrote:
| I'm working on one.
|
| https://www.networksfromscratch.com/
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| This is really awesome, especially as I'm a visual learner
| this is really my style. I'm going to read the available
| chapters before opening up Computer Networking a Top Down
| Approach. I'd love to follow along for updates so I'll be
| putting my email in. I will gladly buy a print copy when
| that's available.
| clumsysmurf wrote:
| I liked
|
| The Illustrated Network: How TCP/IP Works in a Modern Network
| https://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Network-How-Works-Modern/...
| ape4 wrote:
| If it exists it would be called "Node"
| soneil wrote:
| Well that's the hard part sorted, now someone just needs to
| write it!
| netr0ute wrote:
| It's hard for me to afford big books like these. Is there an
| alternative option?
| silisili wrote:
| If you drop me your email, i'll contact you to mail you my
| first edition when the new edition arrives. I don't need both,
| and don't want you to miss out. Easily my favorite CompSci
| related book.
| goldtownjac wrote:
| b-ok.cc has the .epub available for free (but of course if you
| have the money you should support Petzold)
| pid-1 wrote:
| As a student/young professional, I pirated my way to success.
|
| Fun fact: I actually pre-ordered this book, as it's a known
| classic. But I only can do that today thanks to piracy.
| hgdfgdfghjhgf wrote:
| Can anyone share a pdf version of the 2nd edition of the book
| with me? I've already read the 1st edition, it's amazing.
| Jach wrote:
| Wait for someone to give it to you for some holiday?
|
| If you're fine with a digital option, Archive.org often has
| scans of books you can either download locally or temporarily
| "check out" to read on their site like a library (they back it
| with a physical copy). Seems like they have a scanned version
| of the first edition.
|
| I also think everyone should know about Sci-Hub/LibGen/MagzDB
| whether they use those sites or not; most everyone on the
| internet is seconds away from a resurrected Library of
| Alexandria and can access tons of scientific papers, books (and
| textbooks), and magazines, and this is a great thing. They
| don't have everything, but still there's tons. Looks like the
| epub for this version is already up.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| If your employer or school offers the O'Reilly Library (or is
| willing to pay for it as part of your training budget), it's
| located there. Which is where I've started reading it while I
| wait for my preorder to arrive.
| netr0ute wrote:
| > school offers the O'Reilly Library
|
| Unfortunately not :(I checked)
| john1633 wrote:
| There is a quite helpful discount code available here:
| https://www.microsoftpressstore.com/promotions/microsoft-par...
| havblue wrote:
| That discount code works and seems to be the ideal way to
| order this book at a low cost.
| giaour wrote:
| You can request that your local library purchase a copy, then
| check it out.
| jjice wrote:
| Looks like you can get the first edition for ~$20 on Ebay and
| ThriftBooks. Not sure if that's still out of your price range,
| but it's an option if it is. Books are a lot like cars in terms
| of deprecation in my experience. Not always, but you can
| usually get a nice big discount buying used. Not as much with
| software books, but still a decent discount.
| guzik wrote:
| One of my favorite books of all time. It taught me how computers
| work from the ground up. Somewhat similar to nand2tetris:
| https://www.nand2tetris.org/book
| AndrewDucker wrote:
| I'd recommend that pair of books to anyone wanting to really
| understand computers.
| xmonkee wrote:
| I've already "completed" (and loved) nand2tetris. Would Code
| still be good to read?
| AndrewDucker wrote:
| It's very different, and useful more from a general
| approach to what computing is. The two complement each
| other.
| FearlessNebula wrote:
| Which order would you read them in? I assume NAND to Tetris
| is more interactive exercises?
| AndrewDucker wrote:
| It is. I'd tend to start with Code, but it would work
| either way
| cebert wrote:
| I am hoping someone here can recall the name of the book that
| got me interested in computers and Computer Science. It was a
| Microsoft Press book that taught fundamentals of computing. The
| book started with discussing relay switches, and progressed to
| how one could build computational units using them. This book
| was available at my local public library in the mid 90's.
| milkey_mouse wrote:
| That's almost certainly (the first edition of) the book in
| this post.
| [deleted]
| comprev wrote:
| Did it involve a story about kids communicating at night with
| flashlights? Yup, that's the first edition.
| cebert wrote:
| Yes, ok thanks that's the one. I'll have to buy the first
| edition. It was very impactful to me.
| martyvis wrote:
| I'm sure this new edition will have the same early
| chapters, just extend further. This is not a 2nd volume
| but a 2nd edition
| kryptiskt wrote:
| Yes, I'm reading the second edition now, it contains
| those chapters.
| abnry wrote:
| I had a very similar experience. I read the book from the
| library as a kid. I originally thought it was to do with
| ciphers, as I was into codes then. It introduced me to the
| programming section of the library, and I expanded to the
| math section from there. A couple of STEM degrees later and
| here I am.
| jackosio wrote:
| I did the nand2tetris on Coursea, it's what started my passion
| for software, I was just tinkering and hacking before that, did
| that course and knew without a doubt it's what I want I want to
| dedicate myself to.
| wildmanx wrote:
| Sometimes I'm wondering whether this is the future, or
| whether we (as an industry teaching the next generation) are
| taking shortcuts that will hurt us in the long run.
|
| Honest question. I don't have the answer or am insinuating
| anything.
|
| What do I mean? Well, I also acquired all that knowledge, but
| through a formal university CS degree. Before starting my
| degree, I was also "just" tinkering and hacking. I had been
| "programming" for like a decade before that, different
| languages, solving some problems that I found interesting or
| practically useful. During my degree though, I got all the
| details. I had full courses on hardware (transistors and
| upwards, all the way to CPU architecture), on mathematical
| logic, on compilers, on programming language paradigms, on
| algorithms, on complexity theory, on formal methods, in-depth
| on C++, Java, Prolog, computer networks, databases,
| cryptography, real-time systems, statistics, and a few more.
| This also allows me to in-depth describe a "nand to tetris"
| process, but obviously my education has been much broader
| than that.
|
| Was it necessary to take that 6-year degree? Would that have
| been equally well covered by a bunch of Coursera online
| classes and then a few years of work experience? I really
| don't know.
|
| I have a small sample set of colleagues who are self-taught
| and though ambitious are sometimes lacking broader
| perspective and in-depth understanding of CS foundations
| (that includes my boss), and of colleagues who went through a
| similar degree and do have a similar perspective as me, some
| of them not really remembering what was taught (or not
| caring), so those samples go both ways. I don't really know
| anybody without a formal degree who has the full fundamentals
| groked though. That would let me to conclude that the degree
| is a good thing, but frankly my sample is too small to tell.
| epolanski wrote:
| If you want to say that on average a degree will give you
| stronger fundamentals, well, you are saying something
| obvious and clear as water.
|
| But I don't think that having a degree implies that much
| either, that really depends on how one studies (to
| understand vs passing an exam). I've seen way too many
| software engineers who were absolutely clueless about
| software and engineering and even more computer science. In
| fact all of the worse devs I know have a degree, I came to
| the conclusion they signed up for whatever would give them
| the easiest good paying job.
|
| Conversely the world has a lot of brilliant computer
| scientists and brilliant engineers who never entered
| university. Some are famous like Carmack, most you never
| heard about.
| personalidea wrote:
| As a self taught dev, I can confirm that observation. I did
| not spend six years of my life studying all those details
| that, though not crucial to my day job building a JS
| Frontend, might sometimes help with the big picture
| decisions. And I am fully aware of all the things I don't
| know.
|
| Would I like to study those details? You bet. But I came to
| that realization in my late thirties, after having changed
| careers twice, kids, marriage, the whole nine yards. I have
| responsibilities and am lacking the time and free headspace
| to sit down and study.
|
| So a course on coursera or Udemy or whatever it is. And
| little by little I am patching my CS knowledge. Will it
| ever be as complete as that of someone who started
| programming in their teens and went straight for the
| degree? Definitely not. So I agree, if you have the luck
| and the opportunity to be in the situation to have a chance
| for a degree and take it, it's a good thing.
|
| At the same time, I think that it is a good thing that
| software development/ working with computers in some shape
| or form is open to people from many backgrounds, similar to
| the creative fields, because kn the end it is important
| that you can do your job, not necessarily how you acquired
| those skills.
|
| Because it enriches the industry. Bringing all kinds of
| life experiences to the table is a good thing. It is a team
| sport after all. And T-shaped isn't limited to software
| skills.
|
| E.g. I might not have studied CS, but having taught adults
| in foreign languages for years gives me presentational and
| pedagogical skills that help me explain the things I do
| know to our junior devs, because I know how learning
| processes work.
|
| So I would encourage a more optimistic view on the
| situation. Not asking what are your colleagues lacking, but
| asking what else do they know? What did they do, while you
| were studying CS.
| fossuser wrote:
| I preordered this when it first came up months ago and it arrived
| a couple of days ago - fun to know I got a copy before Charles
| did :).
|
| The first edition was really great. Excited to see the updates.
| friedman23 wrote:
| The first edition of this book has given me such a leg up in my
| computer science education and software engineering career.
| hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
| I enrolled in a computer graphics sequence in my last year of
| college. It was a graduate level course and didn't meet the
| minimum requirements. I talked to the professor and he said I
| could try the course and gave me some topics to brush up on.
|
| One topic was Windows programming. I got Petzold's Programing
| Windows book and nearly read it cover to cover on my break, going
| page by page and running and reviewing the sample programs
| provided. I learned a lot about Windows programming and really
| enjoyed the read.
|
| Topics like this can be written in a dull way, but Petzold
| managed to present it in a way that was enjoyable to read and
| easy to understand. I think that says a lot about the quality of
| the writing because some Windows programming details are pretty
| arcane!
| hgdfgdfghjhgf wrote:
| Are there any forums entirely dedicated to this book or at least
| 1st ed of this book? Where users could answer each other's
| technical questions, ask them, get help from other users or smth?
| If there are none, it would be cool to create something like it.
| I believe that the information contained in this book is almost
| unparalleled, the author has done a tremendous job.
| llaolleh wrote:
| +1. There should be a forum for this book.
| Scarbutt wrote:
| I recommended someone " Computer Systems: A Programmer's
| Perspective" because that's what I read and found very good, how
| does Code compares?
| Jtsummers wrote:
| _Code_ is more of a pop-sci book. It 's in-depth, but suitable
| for a motivated layperson. It covers a bit of information
| theoretic content on code (encoding) and the physical layer of
| digital logic, in particular. _CS:APP_ is a programming
| textbook complete with programming exercises. They aren 't
| directly comparable.
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