[HN Gopher] Class Action Targets Experian over Account Security
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       Class Action Targets Experian over Account Security
        
       Author : feross
       Score  : 117 points
       Date   : 2022-08-07 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | Nice, I cannot wait until I get my 2.15 USD check :)
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | I think I got something like $5 from a T-Mobile class action
         | suit.
         | 
         | But I did get ~$400 out of one of a Facebook class action, so
         | sometimes it's worth joining.
        
         | thatguy0900 wrote:
         | Or maybe even one year of credit monitoring!
        
           | Justin_K wrote:
           | Right! Just fill out this form with your ssn, current name,
           | address, phone and email and we'll start your free credit
           | monitoring. (Thanks for the free updates to our db, which we
           | may license or sell to our partners)
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | And by the way, the credit monitoring is on a different
             | totallynotaphishingdomain.com.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | It's a small price to pay for the high quality credit
             | rating service.
        
       | salawat wrote:
       | There needs to be corporate death penalty at some point. I
       | nominate Experian.
        
         | markovbot wrote:
         | What would that entail? Do you think their investors, who have
         | profited off the harm they've done, should face any
         | repercussions?
        
           | tomxor wrote:
           | They should never be allowed to own or invest any business
           | again, in part of full, for the rest of their lives
           | (including as an indirect beneficiary via family or friends).
           | On top of a hefty personal monetary penalty... bring them
           | back down to the level of us filthy peasants so they can reap
           | what they sow.
           | 
           | This would help dissuade people from using companies as
           | proxies to do evil things for profit without consequence.
           | Since it puts you at high personal risk of burning your one
           | lifetime chance at entrepreneurship.
           | 
           | Or maybe fix capitalism somehow i duno (yes this is hard).
        
           | vondur wrote:
           | If the company is shut down, then they lose any investment
           | that they've made in the company. Most investors have little
           | knowledge of the day to day operations of a company.
        
             | tomxor wrote:
             | > Most investors have little knowledge of the day to day
             | operations of a company.
             | 
             | That's part of the problem.
        
               | markovbot wrote:
               | I bet it would change if we started locking them up :)
        
           | throwawaymaths wrote:
           | No need to do that. Just liquidate the company, and give
           | nothing to the investors. The threat of corporate death
           | penalty and a 0% yield on your investment (not a good track
           | record) will help CEOs think twice before they do something
           | stupid on behalf of their investors.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | Roll back the game. Identify when the crime took place. Every
           | transaction after that point is invalid. All profits made
           | must be paid back. The corporation may resume its operations
           | under new leadership after the rollback is complete.
           | 
           | If that's too hard then just wipe out the company. They're
           | not humans, they don't have rights, they don't feel pain.
        
             | markovbot wrote:
             | So the people who funded the crime should just go free?
        
         | throwawaymaths wrote:
         | Boeing should probably be subjected to termination too.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | If we're going down this rabbit hole, Exxon or Philip Morris
           | or DuPont or Chiquita is probably way higher up the list than
           | Boeing, as Boeing has only killed a thousand or so people via
           | mismanagement (this is not counting their warplanes which
           | kill deliberately).
           | 
           | Exxon knew definitively in 1977, in writing, that we were
           | going to incinerate the planet.
        
       | sephamorr wrote:
       | "Identity theft" as a term has always struck me as a terrible
       | description of what is happening. A bank falsely reporting to a
       | credit agency that I am a debtor (when a criminal hands over some
       | exclusively public information about me to get credit) seems like
       | a slam-dunk definition of defamation. It meets the 4-part
       | definition I'm aware of with (1) statement of fact (2) made to a
       | 3rd party that (3) harms the reputation of the plaintiff while
       | (4) acting negligently. (4) is of course the hardest to prove,
       | but surely if all the information a bank asks to verify identity
       | is in the public domain, that seems pretty clear to me.
        
         | staticautomatic wrote:
         | Typically the defendant must know the statement is false.
        
         | mhb wrote:
         | 'Identity theft'? It's daylight robbery by the banks
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/25/identi...
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | Branding it as "identity theft" is a strategic move by the
         | industry to attempt to move liability from themselves onto
         | their customers, labelling _them_ as the victim. The reality is
         | in most cases it should be considered fraud against the
         | business /bank/lender _not_ the customer - they are the entity
         | that has seen defrauded.
        
           | noja wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E
        
           | indymike wrote:
           | Identity theft is fraud that the lender failed to prevent.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Identity theft allows them to shift the responsibility for
         | their own fraudulent debts to us. Now we're the ones who have
         | to seek redress. It's great for them.
        
         | jliptzin wrote:
         | I had not thought about it that way, but that is incredibly
         | astute.
        
       | salawat wrote:
       | I'm less worried about the investors than the management. I'm
       | fairly certain that due to the hands off nature of most
       | American's investment choices, there's likely a bit of Experian
       | in every portfolio out there. The main concern is to clearly,
       | unambiguously demonstrate that the operation of a business that
       | creates a data liability for the public, and failing to secure
       | the data or ensure it's accuracy, will not be tolerated.
       | 
       | Any management should be barred from management roles in similar
       | ventures/verticals. The company assets should be liquidated,
       | except for the data. _That should be wiped._ Their charter and
       | documents of incorporation should be revoked.
       | 
       | Whether investors end up getting paid back out of liquidation is
       | moot. I'm fairly sure the alleged value of the company was
       | entirely tied up in it's data, which if wiped, just leaves their
       | in house software/operational structure, which as previoudly
       | established, should be considered toxic in and of itself due to
       | not being fit for operating in a manner concommitant with the
       | task at hand.
       | 
       | I feel for the employees, but there is a point where even you as
       | an employee should be calling out management for not doing their
       | job, and telling you to do yours poorly.
       | 
       | My patience with corporate actors has grown increasingly short at
       | an astonishing rate.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | This is one company that should be sued until it's out of
       | business. I hope this is a step in that direction.
       | 
       | The fact that after a major leak, there's little protection in
       | place to protect people from using this information to hijack
       | accounts is extreme negligence.
        
         | thayne wrote:
         | And then what? We're left with two other credit bureaus that
         | aren't much better? Another company takes its place that isn't
         | any better, or maybe is even worse?
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | It sounds great, but the article would be better if it explained
       | how the Fair Credit Reporting Act results in standing for a
       | consumer to sue Experian. Maybe this is similar to libel?
       | 
       | In a more reasonable world, the banks that rely on Experian would
       | be suing Experian for facilitating fraud upon the bank.
        
       | enterthematrix wrote:
       | We had a class action lawsuit before and what did it get:
       | 
       | 1) hundreds of millions for corporate lawyers 2) almost nothing
       | for everyone else
       | 
       | Without functional market dynamics (ie actual competition), the
       | class actual lawsuit doesn't actually influence Experience etc to
       | do anything because they will always own the market, so they can
       | continue to fuck people forever.
        
       | junon wrote:
       | About time. Their security has been abysmal for ages it seems.
        
         | thayne wrote:
         | It's pretty unlikely this will do anything to improve that
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | I'm surprised these credit agencies haven't found a way to
       | require forced arbitration as a terms of service of possessing
       | any of your data or giving it to a lender
        
         | cptskippy wrote:
         | That would require you consenting to their spying.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | It's possible to consent by proxy.
           | 
           | For example, if your employer uses ADP for payroll
           | processing, you consent to ADP selling your wage and income
           | history simply by working for that company.
           | 
           | I can't imagine a job interview that would include, "Oh, by
           | the way, if you take this job, we're going to let a multi-
           | national megacorp know every penny you make, every two weeks,
           | and sell that information for tracking, profiling, and
           | advertising. Also, there's free coffee next to the men's
           | room."
        
         | thayne wrote:
         | Because you don't ever sign an agreement with them. They just
         | collect your data from all the other entities you do business
         | with. Your bank, your landlord, your employer, your credit card
         | company, etc.
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | The Equifax breach was worse.
        
         | MobileVet wrote:
         | This. Equitable exposed 147 million identities. They should not
         | exist today, but somehow that resulted in 'free services' for
         | us instead.
         | 
         | As was pointed out earlier, that just updated their database.
         | 
         | Not only are we the product, but we can't opt out. This
         | industry is gross
         | 
         | https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/refunds/equifax-data-breach-...
        
       | TruthWillHurt wrote:
       | If you ever tried integrating with their API(s), you'd want that
       | company to be gone.
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-07 23:00 UTC)