[HN Gopher] To speak meaningfully about art ___________________________________________________________________ To speak meaningfully about art Author : brudgers Score : 23 points Date : 2022-08-08 22:45 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (medium.com) (TXT) w3m dump (medium.com) | labrador wrote: | I've recently become fascinated with Man Ray and Robert | Rauschenberg and I don't know why. I have no intention of | becoming an expert on art so I am not bothering to look up the | theory behind their mixed media creations. Even if they had one, | I'm not sure it would interest me. I'm more interested in what my | reaction to art says about me. Art for me is a tool for self- | discovery. What the artist or art critic says about the work | might be interesting, but mostly irrelevant to me. | xcambar wrote: | A perfectly sane reaction to art. | | Most people are not aware there can be a difference between | "art I love" and "masterpieces of Art History". | | You do not have to appreciate La Joconda or the Last | Supper,just as you might like the art from your neighbor. Both | are fine. | Animats wrote: | A job soon to be taken over by successors to GPT-3. | | Soon, the chattering classes will be automated out of jobs. | whateveracct wrote: | This is a very HN/SV take right here. Most technologists are | philistines (hence the obsession with art automation). | Animats wrote: | > Most technologies are philistines | | Did you mean "Most technologists are Philistines"? | whateveracct wrote: | Apparently technology (my phone) is too. Thanks :) | jrm4 wrote: | Coincidentally, it definitely feels like something GPT-ish | wrote this piece. | Animats wrote: | GPT-3 has a style. It's coherent blithering somewhat | unconnected to the real world. This, not coincidentally, is | the same style popular with bloggers, pundits, and people who | have the need to create text without having much to say. | GPT-3, unanchored to any underlying world model, shows this | style in its purest form. | | After you've read enough GPT-3 output, unanchored blithering | becomes painfully obvious. The parent article does look like | that. | | This is a repost, by the way. The same article was posted on | HN two weeks ago.[1] | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32235100 | oldstrangers wrote: | To speak meaningfully about art you only need to expand your | understanding of what constitutes art. "Thoughtful" conversations | on art have nothing to do with brush strokes or color palettes or | even taste. Qualifying art as "good" or "bad" is a subjective | measure you probably should've left in middle school. And | realistically, you'll never really know what is "good" or "bad" | art without years of exposure to the ideas and thoughts that go | into the work. | abrokenpipe wrote: | I don't agree, and I suppose this is just my opinion but I just | tend to dislike the idea that art is in the eye of the | beholder. | | I think we've extended the use of the word art too far. In my | opinion art is really just paintings and sculptures. Good art | involves a lot of skill, eg: years of practice, attention to | detail, sophisticated processes, careful choice of mediums, | tasteful composition, and choice of subject matter. While a lot | of this stuff is opinionated there are definitely rules to a | lot of these things. There are essentially guidelines that have | log existed for measuring an artists ability to capture color, | shapes, light, and movement. Even with more modern styles like | van Gogh and Monet these rules applied. | | At some point we threw this out the window with the post modern | movement and said art can be anything, becoming more focused on | the cleverness and profound underlying message that this new | "art" contained rather than the skill, dedication, and | aesthetics that went into it. | austinjp wrote: | Let's say you see tens or hundreds of works by artists who | qualify ("years of practice, attention to detail, | sophisticated processes, careful choice of mediums, tasteful | composition, and choice of subject matter"). Do you think | you'd describe all the works as "good"? | | Seems doubtful. | | Or maybe you would say they are indeed all "good", but not | _equally_ good. Or maybe each night be "good and...." some | other quality, varying between the works. | | So what are those qualities that might distinguish between | all those "good" works? And might you see if they apply to | other forms of visual art? Perhaps those qualities might find | a fuller or more varied expression in other media? | | > At some point we threw this out the window with the post | modern movement and said art can be anything | | Check out Marcel Duchamp. | the_only_law wrote: | > In my opinion art is really just paintings and sculptures | | Can't agree with this one, two people I know that are the | epitome of an "artist" are musicians. | User23 wrote: | I remember the first time I walked into a gallery and saw | that someone had stenciled "FUCK" on the wall and the docent | was smugly explaining about how artistically creative it was. | Nah, sometimes a "FUCK" is just a "FUCK." | | So-called modern art is, at best, a money laundering scheme, | and other applications go downhill from there. | | That's not to say there aren't tons of gifted and talented | artists making art today, they just aren't who you're going | to see in the galleries. | tayo42 wrote: | Modern art includes a bunch of amazing artists like Picasso | abrokenpipe wrote: | I think he's referring to the more "out there" postmodern | stuff | the_only_law wrote: | You should have seen the HN thread in some Picasso some | months back. Turns out many were displeased with his | works and styles. | myownpetard wrote: | > In my opinion art is really just paintings and sculptures. | | You don't count film or photography? What about art that | targets other senses besides vision like music or culinary | arts? | causality0 wrote: | _And realistically, you 'll never really know what is "good" or | "bad" art without years of exposure to the ideas and thoughts | that go into the work._ | | Good art makes the world a better place by existing and bad art | makes it a worse place. True, that does mean it's contextual | and can change over time. | trgn wrote: | > Qualifying art as "good" or "bad" is a subjective measure you | probably should've left in middle school | | Judging good from bad requires hubris, and a strong | internalized belief in some kind of inalienable order. The | inability to distinguish good from bad is an inability to | distinguish between virtue and vice, wholesome and depraved, | worthwhile and worthless. In other words, someone who | distinguishes between good and bad takes on the role of judge | and all the responsibilities that entails. The one who doesn't, | abdicates this responsibility, and thus frees themselves from | accountability. Which is cool. But lame. | | Judging art is harmless. So dare be a judge in the presence of | art. It is strangely liberating. | | > And realistically, you'll never really know what is "good" or | "bad" art without years of exposure to the ideas and thoughts | that go into the work. | | That's a premise, which is relatively modern. With art, you can | just known in your bones when something is good, and when | something is bad. When in the presence of "good" art, there's a | gravity you can physically not escape. That feeling can be | intellectualized, of course, it makes for fun dinner | conversations. Nonetheless, it is absolute. | | All that said, the article is actually pretty good (although it | is not to my taste). | austinjp wrote: | > someone who distinguishes between good and bad takes on the | role of judge and all the responsibilities that entails. The | one who doesn't, abdicates this responsibility, and thus | frees themselves from accountability. | | Nah :) | | Someone can judge a work as "good" or "bad" then shrug off | any "responsibility" e.g. by dismissing further discussion. | | Equally someone might judge a work to be neither good not bad | but something else -- disruptive, satirical, insightful, | humble, obsequious -- and willingly take "responsibility" for | their judgement, i.e. defend, debate, discuss, modify it. | | > Judging art is harmless. | | This is strongly dependent on context. To someone's face? As | a politician? | | > So dare be a judge in the presence of art. It is strangely | liberating. | | Fully agree :) ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-08-09 23:00 UTC)