[HN Gopher] Review of /e/ - Android-based alternative for mobile...
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Review of /e/ - Android-based alternative for mobile phones
Author : ivanvas
Score : 172 points
Date : 2022-08-10 16:01 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thenewleafjournal.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (thenewleafjournal.com)
| colordrops wrote:
| Eventually it would be nice if they could contribute to Osmand
| and get it up to snuff for daily use and replace Magic Earth.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| In my experience, where the open source apps often come up
| short is not really _mapping_ but rather turn by turn
| _navigation_. The first, most obvious indictor being the voice
| prompts. If they sound like a bad video game from the 90 's,
| you can bet the directions are equally flawed/bad.
| commoner wrote:
| Organic Maps has a simple user interface that makes it a more
| similar FOSS replacement for Magic Earth.
|
| - Organic Maps: https://organicmaps.app
|
| OsmAnd is a heavyweight with more features, including an
| advanced OSM editor, trip recording, Mapillary street view, and
| other plugins, for those that need them.
|
| - OsmAnd: https://osmand.net
| colordrops wrote:
| Organic Maps is nice, thanks for the pointer.
|
| Maps.me looks very similar - are they related somehow?
| commoner wrote:
| Yes, Organic Maps is a fork of Maps.me. The original
| Maps.me was acquired by Daegu Limited, a subsidiary of the
| financial services company Parity.com, and they stopped
| publishing source code afterward.
|
| - Press release: https://www.londonstockexchange.com/news-
| article/MAIL/mail-r...
|
| - OSM removed from Maps.me, then re-added:
| https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/14076
|
| - No more source code releases from Maps.me:
| https://github.com/mapsme/omim/issues/14157
| 369548684892826 wrote:
| Organic Maps was forked from Maps.me when they started
| adding ads and trackers.
| fezfight wrote:
| I can vouch that organic maps is really quite nice, straight
| forward and familiar.
|
| OSMAnd is more fun, in my opinion, because of all the
| features but if you're looking for familiar, organic maps is
| the way to go.
| fsflover wrote:
| In my humble opinion, relying on custom ROMs running mandatory
| non-free drivers is a road to nowhere, _long term_ , due to their
| unavoidable planned obsolescence. And it always has been.
| Supporting GNU/Linux phones is the way to improve future privacy
| and security (despite they may not be as secure as some Android
| custom ROMs are yet).
| alexb_ wrote:
| Unfortunately for that idea, I would like my phone to actually
| just function normally, and have support for programs that
| Android uses. You are making perfect the enemy of good here.
| pessimizer wrote:
| If you're using "function normally" as a euphemism for "be
| android," then you're misusing "perfect as the enemy of
| good," because if you wouldn't be satisfied with a non-
| Android phone, you certainly don't consider it perfect.
| fsflover wrote:
| I'm using Pinephone as a daily driver (and waiting for Librem
| 5 to replace it) and avoid all proprietary Android apps. But
| you in principle can install them with Waydroid or Anbox.
|
| See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32396685.
| mixedCase wrote:
| > I'm using Pinephone as a daily driver
|
| Just in case you're not aware, because you seemingly are
| trying to convince other people: That fact alone indicates
| that what you're willing to trade off exceeds by an order
| of magnitude what the average user _requires_ their main
| phone to do. And that even extends to the average tech-
| oriented user.
| fsflover wrote:
| I am speaking to the HN audience here and expect that
| most people have more technical knowledge than ordinary
| people. Also, I acknowledged that today AOS might be
| superior, but it's important to support alternatives,
| because it will have problems long term, because it's
| controlled bu Google and heavily relies on proprietary
| code.
| memling wrote:
| > I'm using Pinephone as a daily driver
|
| What OS? Does MMS work out of the box for you?
| fsflover wrote:
| Mobian. I'm not using MMS; according to [0], it's in beta
| state.
|
| [0] https://wiki.mobian-project.org/doku.php?id=pinephone
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Can you share the current state with regards to basic
| functions (phone calls, SMS, mobile data)? Does it work
| reliably?
| fsflover wrote:
| Phone calls and SMS work fine (but I don't use them
| much), mobile data also (and I do use it a lot). Rarely,
| typically during the use of mobile data, the modem
| disappears. Reboot always helps. Telegram and Firefox are
| somewhat slow but generally work reliably. Even calls on
| Telegram work (with the sound coming from the speaker).
| Noscript helps _a lot_. Calendar is not very usable.
| Heavy usage with high brightness can drain full battery
| in a couple of hours, but suspend lasts more than 24
| hours.
| commoner wrote:
| WayDroid is more usable than a lot of people would expect.
| Here's a demo from 10 months ago:
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyOgI8PRt9w
| thomaszander wrote:
| You can wait for the Librem 5 for a very long time, they
| haven't shipped any significant software update for a long
| time for mine and its in the state that if you turn on
| auto-suspend (i.e. don't always go at full 100% CPU) it
| freezes and needs a hard reboot.
|
| Linux on phone is still very much in the enthusiasts-only
| phase. Not for me, not for most. And I'm saying that as
| someone that is a KDE/Linux geek!
|
| Maybe that will change, but for now the e.foundation OS has
| most definitely a large potential audience that those
| phones are not going to be able to fill just yet.
| fsflover wrote:
| I am well aware of the state of Librem 5 shipping. Every
| time they get the CPUs, they ship another banch of the
| phones: https://forums.puri.sm/t/estimate-your-
| librem-5-shipping/112....
|
| Last I checked the forums, Librem 5 works for 10-12 hours
| on one charge, without suspend. This is mostly fine with
| me: it should survive a working day and one can buy a
| spare battery for emergencies. The work on suspend did
| not stop. Yes, I am undoubtedly an enthusiast.
| EastSmith wrote:
| So I went and check the instructions how to manually install /e/
| on a device here [0]
|
| I was welcomed with 5 types of warnings why not to do it. And I
| decided not to do it.
|
| But here what the instructions should have been:
|
| 1. Adb - make sure you have a adb connection. More information
| here.
|
| 2. Run this script from you computer.
|
| 3. At the beginning of the script check a checkbox acknowledging
| that the data will be lost, and there is a small chance your
| device gets bricked.
|
| https://support.e.foundation/devices/beyondx/install
| attah_ wrote:
| Calling it an alternative is an insult against actual
| alternatives. It's still Android, just less googly.
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Cool, except... What alternatives are there? With the caveat
| that phone calls (roaming too), SMS and mobile data must work
| reliably. Is there an alternative that provides this? Librem 5
| maybe? Last I checked neither PinePhone nor Purism were there
| yet.
| josefx wrote:
| The problem with Android based "alternatives" is Googles
| licensing. The licensing agreements for Googles apps require
| that Google gets to decide which android forks device
| manufacturers are allowed to sell if they don't want to be
| completely cut of from Googles ecosystem. So if you actually
| plan to use it for anything bigger you wont even be able to
| find a manufacturer willing to touch it, even Amazon had
| problems getting the Kindle produced. Any attempt to de
| google Android will be stuck as a niche product for
| enthusiasts.
| smetsjp wrote:
| I have been using for years. It is quite usable, improves every
| day and even replaces things like Google of Office365 clouds (in
| a self-hostable way). I recently installed on a Galaxy Tab S6
| Lite (first version) and I now use it as a laptop whenever I need
| a very long battery life or something smaller than my full sized
| Linux laptop. And, it is a real product, one that is thought to
| be used.
| Bud wrote:
| Really embarrassing level of blatant copying of iOS icons and
| design language, here.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| I welcome you to defend why it's embarrassing.
| commoner wrote:
| "Picasso had a saying. He said, 'Good artists copy; great
| artists steal', and we have, you know, always been shameless
| about stealing great ideas."
|
| -- Steve Jobs, in Triumph of the Nerds (1996 documentary)
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6jeZ7m0ycw
| ReadTheLicense wrote:
| What's the difference from AOSP as it is - can't find that in the
| article? AFAIK (I have it on my phone) there's nothing Google in
| there already, no changes needed. Google services and apps have
| to be installed and I simply didn't do that.
| [deleted]
| colordrops wrote:
| I think AOSP still does things like using google for DNS,
| connectivity checks, time sync, etc even without google play
| services installed.
| mrsteveman1 wrote:
| As I understand it:
|
| The Google related things that are excluded from AOSP are
| things that _Google_ doesn 't want them to be there, for
| whatever reason.
|
| The Google related things that are excluded from this project
| are things that _users_ don 't want them to be there at all,
| i.e. everything Google related.
| ReadTheLicense wrote:
| My point is, there's practically nothing Google related in my
| phone already. I am going through the settings and apps and
| can't find anything. Is LineageOS special in this regard? I
| thought this is the common AOSP experience, I had it the same
| with other ROMs.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| AOSP by itself still contacts Google --- without any
| additional apps or services installed. /e/OS has described
| were/how this occurs.
| commoner wrote:
| In case anyone missed it in TFA, here is /e/'s whitepaper
| on how they substitute and proxy Google services:
|
| https://e.foundation/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/e-state-
| of-d... (PDF)
|
| There's also an updated description of /e/ here:
| https://doc.e.foundation/what-s-e
| bornfreddy wrote:
| Are you sure about that? Running NetGuard reveals a lot of
| connections to G where one would not expect them (looking
| at you, Firefox, too). Also make sure you don't use 8.8.8.8
| as DNS.
|
| That said, /e/ is practically LineageOS, except you can buy
| it preinstalled on new phones.
| squarefoot wrote:
| From the /e/ Foundation website:
|
| "The easy-installer beta version supports 15 devices"
|
| This is the #1 problem, but it's not /e/ developers fault, as
| supporting devices is a time consuming and costly activity, and
| the risk of bricking an expensive device is just too high for
| normal users to want to try. Manufacturers are to blame. It's not
| a technical problem but rather a political one; manufacturers
| should be forced by law to unlock boot loaders and publish at
| least the bare minimum documentation enough for porting software
| to devices that became obsolete either by the introduction of a
| newer version, or after support has ceased. Until that happens,
| I'm afraid we'll see more and more projects supporting only a
| very small part of the available devices.
| notyourday wrote:
| It suffers from the same problem as all other Android forks: no
| updates to binary blobs that actually make phone a phone.
| commoner wrote:
| I'd expect the installer to support more devices over time,
| since /e/ officially supports 269 devices:
|
| https://support.e.foundation/devices
|
| It's promising that more and more alternative Android
| distributions are offering installers to make them more
| accessible to average phone users. On the Linux phone side,
| even Ubuntu Touch has an installer that supports 81 devices:
| https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/installer/
|
| But, device manufacturers need to make bootloaders unlockable
| for these installers to work, and I agree that regulation is a
| practical way to make this happen. I can see Europe taking the
| lead on this with the goal of reducing e-waste by encouraging
| the reuse of old devices.
| opan wrote:
| I'll never use a custom ROM that includes microg by default.
| LineageOS with no gapps of any kind is my preference. I can get
| apps from f-droid or even aurora store, and everything I need
| works. I don't want any google stuff on there, not even a
| slightly less sketchy version.
| imiric wrote:
| Sure, but, unfortunately, a lot of apps require Google Play
| Services to work at all, so microG is the only sane
| alternative. The fact /e/OS includes it pre-configured OOB is a
| positive for my use case.
|
| My primary device runs GrapheneOS, but a secondary device with
| /e/OS is the next best thing for apps that refuse to work
| without Google Play Services. Or those that I just want to keep
| off my main device.
| PufPufPuf wrote:
| When the title said "Android alternative", I was actually
| expecting an alternative OS (like Sailfish or Ubuntu Touch), not
| a mere LineageOS fork. That's like calling Ubuntu a "Linux
| alternative".
| dang wrote:
| Ok, we've Android-based it in the title above.
| yarg wrote:
| It's closer to calling Rocky Linux an alternative to RHEL.
| zzo38computer wrote:
| I think that they should reduce as much as possible, the
| background services, telemetry, animations, etc to try to allow
| battery power to last longer, reduce service fees for internet,
| etc. Privacy is one issue but it is not the only one.
| (Furthermore, some manufacturers will include hardware kill
| switches, which might be able to further reduce power
| requirements and improve privacy and security.) Functions can
| still be working if the user specifically activates and controls
| them, though. App permissions could be done by a proxy
| implementation; this allows better user controls, for example you
| can create two separate files with the same app and the files
| don't know each other (and later move them using file manager if
| wanted), or to make it access a empty contacts list or one filled
| in with random data instead of the actual data.
| Arrgh wrote:
| It's not an "alternative", it's still Android, just a fork of a
| fork.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| This is unrelated from the rest of the project, but why do open
| source projects in general have such inexplicably bad marketing?
| To the degree where you can't believe that somebody actually
| thought this would work? To the degree you can't believe someone
| with no marketing experience could be this inept?
|
| What is /e/? How is it pronounced? What does it mean? How do I
| tell people about it? Does it stick out in a Google search (which
| it does not)?
|
| But on that line, why do we have GIMP, GNOME, Everything starting
| with the letter K on KDE, KDE itself, Hector Martin's "Asahi
| Lina" nonsense, and on and on...
| gidorah wrote:
| GIMP really bothers me. It makes it really hard to recommend.
| rglullis wrote:
| Do you need good marketing to guide your decisions? Do you need
| someone else validating your choices? Why do you care about
| "good marketing"?
|
| > How do I tell people about it?
|
| "hey, the website is https://e.foundation, here is the link"
|
| That was not so hard, was it?
| evilos wrote:
| Why would you put work into something meant for others to
| use, and then make it hard for people to find it?
| throwaway1777 wrote:
| I think it's pretty clear now. The answer is that some
| people like the person you replied to think it doesn't
| matter. The truth is it actually matters a lot.
| evilos wrote:
| They appear to enjoy being angry.
| rglullis wrote:
| What does it matter for, exactly?
|
| It matters if you equate success with total domination,
| or think that something is only worth doing if it can
| create a huge gathering of people blindly supporting it.
|
| What if we simply don't care about that? Here we have a
| system that works well, that can do all the things that I
| need and that respects my freedoms. I've mentioned it to
| other people already, all of them simply said "ok, cool"
| and went on with their lives.
|
| Do you think that the _name_ was the reason that it
| stopped them from changing it, or do you think that the
| main thing was "wait, but I _want_ to continue using
| Google /Apple"? Do you think that their indifference made
| the product any less useful to me and the other thousands
| of people who use it? Do you think that my identity is
| tied to the OS of my phone?
|
| Honestly, can you make a solid effort of explaining what
| matters so much about marketing, and why?
| commoner wrote:
| From /e/'s website:
|
| > Our mission: make technology that respects user privacy
| accessible to everyone.
|
| https://e.foundation/about-e/
|
| I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that /e/
| should rebrand itself, if the new name makes /e/ more
| accessible to potential users who are searching for it.
| Good marketing doesn't necessarily mean "total
| domination", but it can help /e/ fulfill its mission by
| extending its reach.
| rglullis wrote:
| Being accessible has nothing to do with being popular.
|
| > I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that /e/
| should rebrand itself
|
| Unreasonable, it is not. It is just vapid bike shedding.
| It is the kind of discussion topic that I would expect
| from corporate MBA types and useless hacks who never
| built anything in their lives, not something worthy of so
| many comments here.
| rglullis wrote:
| Who said that is hard to find it? Is it hard _compared to
| what_? How much does it cost (in times and resources) to
| make it "easier" to find it? The people working on it are
| doing it for free (as in, it cost me _literally nothing_ to
| download and install /e/OS on my phone) and you think you
| still feel entitled to get "good marketing" on top of it?
|
| If you think that the product is lacking in some part, how
| about you CONTRIBUTE to make it better instead of just
| diminishing the work of others?
|
| What a fucking lame attitude.
| evilos wrote:
| It's like if your buddy created an awesome website that
| provided a great free service and then called it
| jflasdjfjasdfjkereifsd.yzy
|
| You'd wonder they shot themselves in the foot like that.
| It would've been easy to give it a good name but instead
| they severely limited the potential of their hard work
| for seemingly no reason.
|
| It's not entitlement, it is confusion.
|
| Also why are you so confrontational?
| rglullis wrote:
| I don't need to type the address to use it. If the site
| is "awesome", I will use it regardless of the name. _I DO
| NOT CARE ABOUT THE NAME_ , I care about what it does and
| what are the guiding principles.
|
| I am confrontational because your "confusion" is just
| stupid concern trolling. Do you think that it is
| important to get more people to be less dependent on Big
| Tech? Then here is an operating system that works pretty
| well. _This is what you need to be telling people_ , not
| how you think that the name is bad. Stop worrying about
| the "marketing", and just use and promote better
| alternatives. By being and acting self-conscious about
| something that _does not matter_ , you are not
| collaborating at all.
| evilos wrote:
| > I will use it regardless of the name.I DO NOT CARE
| ABOUT THE NAME
|
| Your preferences are not consequential. We are concerned
| with how the public behaves. And names matter a lot for
| discoverability.
|
| If you really cared about more people using /e/, you
| should be concerned that the name is needlessly reducing
| its reach. I plan on trying /e/, but you are not doing
| the project any favors with your attitude.
| rglullis wrote:
| > We are concerned with how the public behaves.
|
| Speak for yourself. I am not "concerned" about anything
| so abstract as "public behavior". All I am "concerned"
| about is my personal ability to keep my freedom and my
| choices, and by extension I am concerned about others
| having the same freedoms. Being concerned about
| "behavior" is the last of my worries.
|
| > And names matter a lot for discoverability.
|
| It didn't stop you from finding out about it, did it?
|
| > you are not doing the project any favors with your
| attitude.
|
| Why? Are you worried that if people see you using a phone
| with /e/OS you will be associated with grumpy rude
| graybeards?
| smoldesu wrote:
| > why do open source projects in general have such inexplicably
| bad marketing?
|
| Because they don't pay a marketing team to work 9-5 alongside
| them? That's probably the reason why all the art is ugly too,
| their website kinda sucks, et al. But that's not really the
| main appeal of this project, and I think it's honorable that
| they're focusing all their effort on the product rather than
| the vanity. If they did spend time writing marketing double-
| speak, the HN refutation du-jour would be that they're not
| focusing on privacy enough.
|
| > But on that line, why do we have GIMP, GNOME, Everything
| starting with the letter K on KDE, KDE itself, Hector Martin's
| "Asahi Lina" nonsense, and on and on...
|
| Why was one of the first NES emulators called Nesticle? Who
| knows, and who cares? The quality of the software spoke for
| itself, and it opened the doors to decades of unsuccessful
| litigation from Sony and Nintendo. The same thing happened for
| Linux, Nginx, Kubernetes, BSD... you name it. The utility of
| these projects far outweighs their respective sex appeal, so
| why even bother making a pretty landing page?
|
| While we're on the topic, why does Apple have such a bad
| history of choosing names for their stuff too? "Xcode" doesn't
| confer anything to me as a user, at least "Visual Studio" tells
| me I'm about to be using an IDE. Also makes it sound like an
| x11/Xorg tool, which it certainly isn't. Similarly, "Logic
| Pro", "Final Cut" and even "iTunes" are dorky titles. Even
| Microsoft, the patron saint of bad UX design, has the balls to
| just call their app "Music" and "Photos".
| toxican wrote:
| I'm a little hung up on the fact that you think between
| "Xcode" and "visual studio" that the latter is the one that
| more suggests you're about to be writing code in an IDE.
| smoldesu wrote:
| On every Unix box I've ever used, any tool prefixed with
| 'X' usually relates to the display server technology. MacOS
| is the only outlier here, and the 'X' doesn't really mean
| anything to me as a user. The word 'code' hints that it's a
| tool for development, but altogether it could mean anything
| from a compiler to a Xorg IDE. At least Visual Studio
| conveys the idea that you're going to be using a GUI
| application with designer/compositional tools, and adding
| 'Code' to it clarifies that it's a visual tool for
| manipulating code.
|
| It's a bit of a reach, but if you think the average iPad
| user could tell you what "Logic" does, I'd be inclined to
| disagree.
| soufron wrote:
| I have used /e/ as my main phone for 1 year - and I am a heavy
| user. It's a bliss! I also got a phone with /e/ installed on it
| for my 73 years old mother. She loved it. It's really surprising
| to see how the bigtech monopoly has nothing to do with the
| quality of their services, but everything with their unfair
| practices - Microsoft yesterday, Google today.
| em-bee wrote:
| pretty much the same story for me. started 3 years ago, and got
| a phone for my 70 year old mother almost two years ago. she
| gets help to install new apps, but otherwise it works just fine
| for her.
| soufron wrote:
| And it's << stable >>. I mean it works and will keep on
| working for years.
| 2-718-281-828 wrote:
| I have been using LOS since 17.1 on OP3T and OP6. How would my
| experience with /e/ differ?
| commoner wrote:
| How are you using Google services on LineageOS now? Do you have
| microG preinstalled (LineageOS for microG)[1], did you install
| GApps, or are you not using Google services at all?
|
| /e/ has microG installed, just like LineageOS for microG.
| Compared to the proprietary Google Play Services in GApps,
| microG is a FOSS library that allows apps to access Google
| services. microG lets you selectively enable/disable push
| notification access for individual apps that depend on Google's
| Firebase Cloud Messaging, and also lets you choose a location
| provider other than Google. On the other hand, microG is not
| compatible with all apps that depend on Google Play Services.
| For example, Android Auto and Google Pay are not supported.
|
| Also, /e/ and LineageOS support different versions for
| different devices. Since LineageOS supports Android 12 on
| OnePlus 6T,[2] while /e/ has that device on Android 11 (R),[3]
| LineageOS for microG may be a better choice on that device.
| Both /e/ and LineageOS support Android 11 on the OnePlus
| 3T.[4][5]
|
| [1] https://lineage.microg.org
|
| [2] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/enchilada/
|
| [3] https://doc.e.foundation/devices/enchilada
|
| [4] https://doc.e.foundation/devices/oneplus3
|
| [5] https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/oneplus3/
| COGlory wrote:
| I use /e/ daily as does a co-worker (we aren't working in tech).
| It's the one piece of alternative software that I'm comfortable
| recommending to anyone. It "just works" just as much as Android
| "just works".
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| IMHO, this is the real value of /e/! I had a non-technical
| friend ask me how they could get an Android phone that would
| not spy on them. I could have suggested GrapheneOS (what I use)
| or LOS+microg, but instead I sent her /e/ because it hits that
| perfect balance of privacy and usability for a normal person!
| [deleted]
| martinald wrote:
| But do apps like Uber, WhatsApp etc work ok on it?
| commoner wrote:
| Uber and WhatsApp work well on /e/ and other Android
| distributions with microG.
|
| For microG compatibility, Plexus rates Uber 3 out of 4
| (good), and WhatsApp 4 out of 4 (perfect).
|
| - Plexus: https://plexus.techlore.tech/
|
| I can confirm that the map in Uber can be janky at times, but
| the app is otherwise fully functional. Both the Uber web app
| and the Lyft app (4 out of 4 on Plexus) work flawlessly.
| imiric wrote:
| I specifically use /e/ because of its seamless microG
| integration. Even banking apps work great on it.
| [deleted]
| alestainer wrote:
| /e/ docs say it uses Android keyboard, wouldn't that be a source
| of a data leak?
| commoner wrote:
| The "Android Keyboard (AOSP)"[1] in /e/ is a fork of the
| LineageOS keyboard.[2] Neither of these keyboards have network
| access.
|
| This is different from the keyboards that are preloaded on some
| Android phones, such as Gboard and Samsung Keyboard, which do
| connect to the internet.
|
| [1]
| https://gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/android_packages_inputmetho...
|
| [2]
| https://github.com/LineageOS/android_packages_inputmethods_L...
| chomp wrote:
| From /e/'s site, de-googling (because the review didn't go in
| depth on this): - To remove or disable any
| feature or code that is sending data to Google servers, or at
| least to anonymize those accesses - To offer non-
| Google default online services, including for search.
| - the Google default search engine is removed and replaced by
| other services - Google Services are replaced by
| microG and alternative services - All Google apps
| are removed and replaced by equivalent Open Source applications.
| The one exception is the Maps Application (Looks like it also
| uses Google's browser Chromium, though with privacy patches)
| - No use of Google servers to check connectivity -
| NTP servers are not Google NTP servers anymore - DNS
| default servers are not Google anymore, and their settings can be
| enforced by the user to a specific server -
| Geolocation is using Mozilla Location Services in addition to GPS
| - CalDAV/CardDAV management and synchronization application
| (DAVDroid) is fully integrated with the user account and
| calendar/contact application
| butterNaN wrote:
| I wonder why these FOSS-y projects don't bundle Firefox for
| Mobile with them. It is a far superior experience with Add-Ons.
|
| In fact, I don't even use most apps anymore, most websites' web
| versions are more than adequate nowadays. In fact at least in
| one instance viz. Duolingo, the web experience is far superior
| than the app.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| solotronics wrote:
| Is there any Android alternative that works with Android Auto?
| One of the primary uses of my phone is plugging into my car to
| play music and navigate.
| sfRattan wrote:
| I've been searching for an alternative to Android Auto itself.
| After an update some months ago, launching the app takes me to
| a settings panel declaring that Android Auto is no longer
| supported for phone screens (i.e. it is now only designed to
| run while linked to a car with a compatible display), and the
| app itself refuses to run as it used to on just the phone.
|
| Add that functionality to the Google graveyard, I guess...
| commoner wrote:
| I don't think Android Auto works without Google Play Services
| at this time. Here's the feature request for Android Auto
| support on microG:
|
| https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/issues/897
| yoavm wrote:
| Lineage works perfectly fine for me with Android Auto
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| _" We are making a mobile phone ecosystem that lets users escape
| the permanent and industrial harvesting of their personal data."_
|
| I have never heard any normal person ever talk about data
| privacy. It feels like there's this giant bubble that the tech
| world lives in, and they are the only people who care about this
| issue.
| renewiltord wrote:
| All the Apple billboards in SF on 280/101 tout their Privacy
| right now.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| A Ford billboard might have a picture of a fancy cupholder to
| advertise their car has more cupholders; doesn't mean
| everyone's walking around talking about cupholders. (Though
| they will if they see that billboard)
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| Honestly I am starting to hear it more and more from
| nontechnical folks. People are starting to realize that tech
| companies are profiting off their "private" data (just see the
| mainstream responses to Amazon acquiring Roomba). I now hear a
| lot of people saying they don't want Google/Amazon/etc to have
| all their data, but these folks are not sure how to avoid it.
| jrockway wrote:
| Yesterday I was reading that Facebook shares DMs with the
| police to find people that are thinking of leaving the state to
| get a medical procedure that is illegal in that state. Data
| privacy is now deeply relevant to 50% of the population that
| have reduced rights relative to the other 50%, they just might
| not know it yet.
| acka wrote:
| 0xbadcafebee:
|
| > I have never heard any normal person ever talk about data
| privacy. It feels like there's this giant bubble that the tech
| world lives in, and they are the only people who care about
| this issue.
|
| Honestly, I don't know if I've just missed your irony here, or
| if you don't realize there are lots of 'normal' people out
| there who have been thinking about this since like... the 50s
| of last century or something? Most certainly, they were talking
| about it (freely that is) since at least the 90s of the same
| century. Like, people who grew up under a totalitarian regime
| which could assign spies to eavesdrop and collect data on
| anyone, anywhere for any reason at all. Like the GDR for
| instance[1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi
| fezfight wrote:
| Good it happens at all. These people are the last bastions of
| hope.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > I have never heard any normal person ever talk about data
| privacy.
|
| I hear normal people talk about it all the time. The only place
| where I hear that only people on HN care about privacy is on
| HN, constantly.
|
| edit: I suspect that tech people who work on privacy-invading
| technologies live in a rationalization bubble that tells them
| that the complaints that they constantly hear are from a
| vanishingly small nerd contingent that they themselves just
| happen to immersed in. They don't believe their lying ears.
| amatecha wrote:
| I know a couple in their 70s who literally just switched away
| from using their ISP email because the ISP is adopting Gmail
| for the email service. People typically care about their
| privacy regardless of age or technical ability. Sometimes it
| just takes some basic understanding of just how deeply tech
| companies/services can invade their privacy. Most non-technical
| people simply don't grasp how shockingly omniscient tech corps
| are. That said, sometimes it can take a while for them to
| understand, even with regular discussions on the subject.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| What is your point? You're using loaded terms like "normal" to
| contrast with people who are tech hobbyists, and you sound as
| if it is bad for an organization to care about something moral
| if few people care for it.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| Because it's like a trope now where a tech person builds a
| thing that bothers them but nobody else, and meanwhile most
| people are like "I just want to do X, why is it so hard".
| Like why does my Android phone take up 15GB just for system
| files? I care about having free space more than data privacy.
| Security would sure be nice too, seeing as I use banking apps
| from this thing.
|
| Call me crazy, but I think most people care less about Nike
| knowing what their shoe size is, than they care about keeping
| their bank account safe or not running out of storage.
| autoexec wrote:
| > Call me crazy, but I think most people care less about
| Nike knowing what their shoe size is
|
| They don't care because they don't understand. "Most
| people" think their shoe size or what ad they see doesn't
| matter because they're right, those things don't matter.
| What matters is that all of the data being collected about
| them will be used against them at every opportunity so that
| other people can get more money and power at their expense.
|
| The data they give up will be increasingly used in every
| aspect of their lives. Restaurants will use it to decide
| how long to leave them waiting on hold when they call for a
| reservation. Employers will decide to hire them or not
| based on their purchase history, their health, or their
| political views. Stores will decide how much to charge them
| vs their neighbors for the exact same products.
|
| The data they've been handing over will be used by
| corporations to extract more money from them. It will be
| used by by politicians who want to manipulate them and to
| create maps that will limit the ability for their votes to
| make any difference. It will be used by activists looking
| for people they can target for doing things they don't
| like. It will be used by law enforcement who will use that
| data against someone anytime they think it might help them
| make an arrest, or win a case in court. It will be used by
| their health insurance company to raise their rates when
| fast food spending in their zip code goes up.
|
| The data "Most people" gave up thinking it was about shoe
| size and ads will be leveraged against them in countless
| ways by people they've never had any direct interaction
| with at all. The data never goes away and it ends up in the
| hands of hackers and data brokers who sell it to others.
| "Most people" aren't allowed to know who is accessing their
| data, how accurate that data is, how (or if) it is being
| secured, or what the people who have their data will be
| using it for.
|
| Well, although they'll never be allowed to know
| specifically what their data will be used for, in a general
| sense they can be pretty sure it will be used to manipulate
| them, to categorize (and often miscategorize) them and to
| assign them a position in one or more unregulated digital
| caste systems that will increasingly limit their options
| and cause them to spend more money.
|
| They don't care about data privacy now, but as more of them
| figure out that what they've been giving up is going to
| impact the rest of their life in ways they couldn't imagine
| they're going to start caring more and more.
| eldaisfish wrote:
| this is my #1 complaint as well. These OSs must be easy to
| install and reliable. Having parts of the OS crash, dealing
| with the terminal, using ADB over USB... all of that makes zero
| sense to the average person or someone pressed for time.
|
| I now want my phone to work and that is why i use iOS. Having
| to replace the OS on your phone is already a step too far for
| most. The install instructions here require using the terminal
| and typing commands - not going to happen for most people.
|
| IMHO, the easiest path to adoption is to have a hardware
| manufacturer put this OS on their phones. No installation
| required.
| COGlory wrote:
| >Having parts of the OS crash, dealing with the terminal,
| using ADB over USB...
|
| I bought a phone from /e/ and have never had this happen in
| almost 2 years.
| rglullis wrote:
| Relax, OP is just reaching for whatever rationalization
| they can get to continue sucking on Apple's tit.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| That's a shitty comment man
| rglullis wrote:
| What is shitty is this attitude of accepting the
| "solutions" sold by Big Tech and finding fault at
| whatever minuscule issue with the free alternatives.
|
| What is shitty is being on HackerNews and seeing
| (presumably tech-savvy) people more worried about the
| product's name and "marketing" instead of discussing the
| system on its technical merits. Or seeing comments like
| yours that think that privacy is something that only
| concerns a "small bubble".
|
| That is just not shitty, it is profoundly depressing.
| commoner wrote:
| /e/ has partnerships with Fairphone and Teraphone to sell
| versions of their phones with /e/ preloaded. /e/'s sister
| company Murena produced its own phone (the Murena One) and
| they also sell refurbished Galaxy S9/S9+ phones preloaded
| with /e/:
|
| https://murena.com/products/smartphones/
|
| No terminal/ADB needed, and in my experience, /e/ is not
| crashy.
| Grazester wrote:
| I feel like I wouldn't use this based on the name alone. How do I
| say it? forward slash ee forward slash? I don't understand why
| anyone would think it was a good idea to name it this!
| Aransentin wrote:
| My immediate reaction was that it was some sort of 4chan
| project, tounge-in-cheek named after their softcore porn board
| (also named "/e/").
|
| I'd wager I'm not the only one thinking that.
| labster wrote:
| Careful, your powerlevel is showing.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| When I see _slash letter slash_ I think "a board on 4chan". In
| this case, it happens to be a pornographic board.
|
| Bad name all around.
| em-bee wrote:
| the original name was eelo. then they discovered that eelo was
| a trademark owned by someone else. /e/ was a stopgap measure,
| while they were looking for a new name. already some years ago
| they said they had a new name, but they were working to make
| sure the name was rock solid (trademarking it in several
| jurisdictions i guess).
|
| i think murena is that new name. i don't know why they don't
| use that for the OS. but i guess it's because once you have a
| brand, it's difficult to change. maybe over time when murena is
| more well known they will try to rebrand the OS too.
|
| branding is hard. rebranding is even harder. especially if you
| don't have a large marketing budget.
| fuckstick wrote:
| Murena sounds like an IUD.
| softfalcon wrote:
| A solid product name is important for marketing, to be sure.
|
| However, it's also a way that native English folks prejudice
| against foreign products that are arguably very useful and
| valuable.
|
| I'm not saying you're wrong in doing what everyone does and
| allowing the marketing naming to sway your decision. However, I
| would gently suggest that you take a more critical approach and
| evaluate the actual product instead of letting something as
| simple as naming deter you from using a product.
|
| After all, kubernetes is complicated and stupid sounding, but
| we can just rebrand it to "Google Cloud" or whatever and people
| will love it. Same can be done for /e/... they'll just call it
| "NextPhone" or some other catchy name.
| eldaisfish wrote:
| something named /e/ has literally no obvious means of
| pronunciation in any human language. This really is on a
| different level of stupid for a name.
|
| You mention Kubernetes. I raise you Microsoft Kaizala. That
| is such a stupid name in English even though i recognise and
| know the language it is from - Marathi.
|
| Naming is a delicate game and there are numerous examples of
| brand names that transcend language - Ikea, Nissan,
| Mitsubishi and so on.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| I don't immediately understand why Kaizala is a stupid
| name, in or out of English.
| mgdlbp wrote:
| but but, /I'ke:a/!
|
| edit: hmm... that settles it then: the pronunciation is
| simply, /e/. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki//e/
| userbinator wrote:
| I don't understand either; especially the fact that no one
| seemed to have done any research on any existing usage of /e/.
| The only explanation that makes sense is they were deliberately
| referencing the 4chan board, which is indeed a place best
| visited with privacy.
|
| At least they didn't call it /b/.
| kimbernator wrote:
| and how do I look it up on google if I need help with
| something?
| commoner wrote:
| A lot of websites (including TFA) are calling it "/e/ OS",
| which seems to work fine for searches.
| jfax wrote:
| My internal monologue pronounces it as "ecchi".
| artificial wrote:
| Nno, what are you doing step-phone!?
| havblue wrote:
| People should just call it Slashy Slash...
| md224 wrote:
| I thought it might be referencing an upside down G.
| jlkuester7 wrote:
| I have been following this project for years. I think they lost
| their original name to a copyright claim (the claim seemed a
| stretch, but whatever). /e/ was supposed to be the temp name,
| and they have forever been discussing how it needs to
| change.... Not sure why it has never happened.
| dylan604 wrote:
| There is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution
| --some genius
| commoner wrote:
| /e/ sells smartphones preloaded with /e/ OS through its sister
| company Murena:
|
| https://murena.com/products/smartphones/
|
| It would make sense for /e/ to rebrand to Murena OS, if they're
| willing to change their name.
| crb wrote:
| Did no-one else immediately think of (or relate it to)
| Enlightenment?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(software)
| JustSomeNobody wrote:
| Every time I see it, I just call it e. Why deal with the
| cognitive overhead of trying to figure out a shit name?
| devonallie wrote:
| I love LineageOS and have used microG services for so long but
| forks like this strike me as sad as needing to assimilate to the
| look and feel of iOS. It comes off as cheap and unoriginal. Now
| this is harsh criticism I understand but I do appreciate how much
| effort it must have taken to make all of these app forks. I only
| wish the effort was spent building something more interesting.
| commoner wrote:
| Android launchers are like Linux desktop environments. There
| are plenty of options, and everyone can pick the one that works
| best for them. It's easy to install another launcher and set it
| as the default.
|
| /e/'s Bliss Launcher is going to feel more familiar for people
| who are coming from iOS. For a more traditional Android
| experience, Lawnchair* would be a better fit. It's just like
| how GNOME and KDE are closer in design to the desktop
| environments of macOS and Windows, respectively.
|
| Every Android distribution has to pick a default launcher. /e/
| choosing an iOS-like launcher by default is their way of
| attracting users who want a simpler user experience.
|
| * Lawnchair: https://lawnchair.app
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| I use /e/OS with Discreet Launcher. It does not mimic iOS.
| kemayo wrote:
| It does look like /e/ mimics iOS _by default_ , though, which
| is where I think the original poster's criticism is aimed.
| The screenshot in this article showing bliss is very iOS-y.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > It comes off as cheap and unoriginal.
|
| To me it comes off as Apple fans doing Apple-type shit. I'm not
| an Apple UI fan, but if someone is, they should imitate what
| they like instead of trying to invent some entirely new garbage
| paradigm, without any particular inspiration, when they really
| just wanted to make a nice distro that they would enjoy using.
| flas9sd wrote:
| the forks create a great burden of keeping them up to date, and
| they can't keep up of course with constrained resources. Though
| it gives them independence to achieve orthogonal goals.
|
| Having default apps colors aligned is soothing, not sad at all.
| It's not iOS-y beyond the launcher.
| rand0m4r wrote:
| after being an android user for about 13 years i switched to an
| iphone se this year, and i'm very satisfied. you just can't
| compare apples and oranges, android is sluggish even with a high
| end phone
| ganzman wrote:
| Surely you haven't tried all Android phones out there, so why
| make such a generalizing comment? I'm daily driving a mediocre
| Pixel 4a and have no such issues. I also tried an iPhone 11 Pro
| alongside my Pixel for a few months. What an unwieldy brick
| that was and they're only getting heavier. Notifications
| handling and navigating the settings suck big time, and overall
| it felt very restricting to use.
| _puk wrote:
| I suppose it's all personal preference past a point..
|
| I tried switching from an old Pixel 3 to a new iPhone recently
| and just couldn't get on with it. Simple things like not being
| able to order the home screen how I want it drove me nuts.
|
| Dropped back to a Pixel 4a (5G) and I'm very satisfied. No
| issues with sluggish performance that I've seen.
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