[HN Gopher] Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory ___________________________________________________________________ Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory Author : stacktrust Score : 113 points Date : 2022-08-14 19:44 UTC (3 hours ago) (HTM) web link (toolguyd.com) (TXT) w3m dump (toolguyd.com) | ajaimk wrote: | Isn't Milwaukee tool owned by a Chinese company? Some irony here. | tzs wrote: | Yes. They are owned by the Hong Kong company Techtronic | Industries, which also owns Homelite, Hart, Oreck, Dirt Devil, | and a few others. Ryobi Power Tools and Ryobi Outdoor Equipment | are also Techtronic Industries brands, under license from | Ryobi. | | Techtronic Industries bought them from the Swedish company | Atlas Copco in 2005. | | Here's an article on who owns what in power tools [1]. | | With some of the licensing deals, the same brand might actually | come from two different companies. Emerson owns RIDGID and | makes tools under that name, but also licenses the name to | Techtronic. Emerson seems to make the non-powered RIDGID tools | and Techtronic makes the powered ones. | | It looks like maybe 6 companies cover pretty much every power | tool brand that most people in the US are likely to find at | Home Depot, Lowe's, ACE, Walmart, and so on. | | I just wish that they would get together and agree on battery | standards for their cordless power tools, so that batteries | could be interchanged. | | My first lithium battery cordless tool was a bundle from Black | & Decker of a weed whacker and a hedge trimer. Since then I've | added a B&D drill and a B&D impact driver. I now need a | cordless leaf blower and although it looks like some other | brands would fit my needs better than B&D I'll probably go with | B&D just to avoid getting another battery system (and will | probably by the tool only since I have enough B&D batteries and | chargers already--I don't use enough tools simultaneously to | need more than the three batteries and charges I already have). | | There are some adapters to allow mixing batteries, for example | this one allows using Black & Decker 20V batteries on Bosch 18V | tools [2], so it might be feasible to branch out from B&D | without having to deal with a different battery system. | | [1] https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers- | who-... | | [2] https://powertoolsadapters.com/products/black- | decker-20v-to-... | stacktrust wrote: | _> I just wish that they would get together and agree on | battery standards for their cordless power tools, so that | batteries could be interchanged._ | | Paging the EU regulators who mandated USB-C for smartphone | chargers. | | Another comment mentioned that DRM is coming to tool battery | platforms. | loufe wrote: | Yessir, it's a subsidiary of Techtronic Industries, | headquartered in Hong Kong. | [deleted] | stacktrust wrote: | https://archive.ph/N5pPO | | _> [German] Chairman Horst J. Pudwill, a former Volkswagen | executive ... co-founded the company in 1985 as a maker of | rechargeable battery packs for cordless tools. It then made | tools for do-it-yourselfers on a contract basis for Sears | Holdings Corp. 's (SHLD ) Craftsman brand, among others. Then | it bought control of brands, including rights to the Ryobi | name outside Japan, Royal vacuum cleaners, and Homelite | garden tools. The big move was the $626 million purchase of | Milwaukee Electric Tool and Germany's AEG Power Tools -- both | premier brands used by professionals -- from Atlas Copco. | | > Techtronic can also take new tools from the conceptual | stage to production in as little as six months, thanks to | 24/7 collaboration among designers in Asia and Techtronic's | "concept centers" in Hong Kong, South Carolina, Germany, and | Britain._ | silisili wrote: | They've got a lot of bar to raise. Really all TTI hand tools have | always been rather meh, so this could turn the tide. | | For anyone interested, apparently Craftsman also just opened a | huge hand tool plant in Texas. | | Nice to see a little resurgence in locally sourced stuff. | Someone1234 wrote: | Milwaukee's battery tools are pretty great (M12 and M18 lines), | but their hand tools aren't particularly good in my experience. | So "raising the bar" for them would be just making hand tools | that people want to buy over the competition. | | Made in the US is fine/good/whatever, but what I want to see from | them is tools that are just good in their own right. I want to | see their hand tools top Project Farm charts like their battery | stuff. Time will tell. | nimbius wrote: | i apprenticed on armstrong and milwaukee tools and can confirm | about 15 years ago they spun off a cheap Chinese line that was | complete garbage compared to the USA line. good enough for | tightening the occasional bolt but fell apart under daily use. | bombcar wrote: | They appear to have really stepped it up on the new hand- | tools line. | | Not sure it is exactly worth the premium, but the ones I have | are very nice (just get them on sale is all). | _Adam wrote: | I don't think this will make much of a difference aside from the | branding advantage. The quality of a mass-produced product like a | consumer hand tool isn't a function of the country in which it is | made but rather of its design. All the decisions made during that | process and all the cost / performance considerations made are | what determine the ultimate outcome. | | It's common to blame Chinese manufacturing for cheap tools, but | this gets the causation backwards. We wanted cheap tools and | sending production overseas was the only way to get them. In fact | because less is spent on labor, a better quality product can be | had for the same price. | | So bringing it back here without increasing the cost to the | consumer means altering the design to make it cheaper to build, | or banking on supply chain efficiencies to make it worthwhile. | cplusplusfellow wrote: | I tend to disagree with this in many ways. Chinese products are | often made from subpar raw materials like steel, which can be | much more brittle than steel sourced from US, Germany, and | Mexico. | kube-system wrote: | Professionally engineered products have their steel specified | by physical attributes, not country of origin. If it meets | the spec, and passes QA, it meets the spec. | | That being said, not every plant makes every type of steel. | Higher end steels are the types of steels that western | manufacturers can compete on, so it is often what they | specialize in. | cplusplusfellow wrote: | Some countries declare steel to have certain properties and | they do not have those properties. | | This is a certifiable fact. | kube-system wrote: | Manufacturers can and do test steel for compliance and | will demand remediation from suppliers if it exhibits | issues. I have first hand experience. | SV_BubbleTime wrote: | >So bringing it back here without increasing the cost to the | consumer means altering the design to make it cheaper to build, | or banking on supply chain efficiencies to make it worthwhile. | | As much as I like some Klein tools that are made in the USA, | they have a few that are cheaper-quality when compared to their | cheaper-price Chinese alternatives. | | If I can't find USA, I'll at least look to Taiwan, having spent | time there and seen how hard the people work. | mmsimanga wrote: | I don't know anything about manufacturing but I wonder if | problems associated with outsourcing IT overseas are not also | experienced in manufacturing.l? Wouldn't having the factory | closer give you same benefits as being able to walk across to a | fellow developer and discuss some issue. | juve1996 wrote: | Of course - they can iterate much faster. I know firms in the | US that would have to wait 3 months for a prototype to ship | for testing. 3 months. Think about how much time is truly | wasted? | bombcar wrote: | This can happen - if the company is setup to allow that. | There was some GE product that was brought back in-house next | to the developers and the assemblers talking to them shaved | 35 steps off manufacturing. | lumost wrote: | Is this really true? Cutting quality doesn't buy you much if | your cost per unit is primarily driven by labor. If you | manufacture in a high cost country, you may be forced to | compete on quality. | AlbertCory wrote: | > The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand | tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but | rather of its design. | | I don't think you've read all the posts by people with actual | experience in manufacturing. Give the same "design" to two | different factories and you get two different results. | Manufacturing matters. | kube-system wrote: | Yes, but it's a little bit of both because there's a feedback | loop in the demand for a product and the expertise and attitude | of a local industry. | moonchrome wrote: | Thing is a customer is willing to pay disproportionately more | for a "reliable" country of origin, brand, whatever - so you | can afford to throw in better components/QC on top of higher | labor cost etc. | | Many things are this way - you don't pay premium price for a | budget brand even if they end up performing the same as premium | brand. | | Also you don't outsource production to China to get better | quality, you outsource to cut cost - that always leads to worse | products down the line. | googlryas wrote: | If you ever try to get something built in China, you really | need to know what you're doing, or the manufacturer will | violate your specs all over the place in order to profit an | extra 1/10th of a cent per unit. | | But, big companies don't really have that excuse, because they | should know what they're doing. | ajsnigrutin wrote: | Yep, suddenly they will change the type of plastic used, | changed the ratios of plastics, use less copper (wires, | pcbs), replace the brand name electronics with cheaper | knockoffs and qa rejects from other factories, replace the | type of glue, etc. Basically you need a QA team there to | monitor every step of the production, or they'll try to screw | you everywhere they can. | arecurrence wrote: | Reminds me of even Apple recently having problems with one | of its suppliers pulling a bait and switch on lcd screens. | solarkraft wrote: | This sounds like perfectly efficient capitalism. Is it | really not this way in other countries? | jefftk wrote: | You negotiate for one grade of steel, initial rungs are | that grade, but over time some manufacturers will start | substituting a cheaper grade and hope you don't notice | ("quality fade"). In most countries employees would see | that as unethical, and companies would risk | whistleblowing and fraud suits if they went ahead anyway. | stacktrust wrote: | Milwaukee (TTI) is vertically integrated, i.e. they own their | factories in China. | solarkraft wrote: | ... that's possible? Don't companies from outside china | have to set up joint ventures with a chinese company? | arecurrence wrote: | Milwaukee is owned by Techtronic industries, a Chinese | company | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _they own their factories in China_ | | This isn't as protective as one would imagine. Unscrupulous | floor managers will still swap materials, run the crap and | sell the good stuff. | stacktrust wrote: | Wow. How would floor managers benefit from that kind of | swap? | umeshunni wrote: | They sell the higher spec ones on the side to their | buddies? | stacktrust wrote: | Wouldn't the lower spec ones fail QA checks on factory | floor? | fn-mote wrote: | And as the other posters tell you, possibly failing QA | checks is not stopping profiteers from attempting these | kind of changes. Constantly. It's a numbers game. | Expected profit based on how long until your swap is | discovered. | AnimalMuppet wrote: | Not if the floor manager controls the factory floor QA | checks... | stacktrust wrote: | If factory owners really want integrity from software- | executed QA checks, they can require HQ authorization of | software and config updates on factory floor equipment | that is equipped for local tamper detection of control | planes. | bobthepanda wrote: | By pocketing the difference. | stacktrust wrote: | Ah, pocketing the delta on input costs. Hopefully the | drop in output QA metrics would be detectable via | software. | natpalmer1776 wrote: | Same way it happens outside china in other industries. | You know a supplier who sells material / service for | $BUDGET minus X, in exchange for swapping the PO you get | a portion of X from the supplier via back channel means, | while company is now paying $BUDGET for lower quality | material / service that costs supplier less. | karmicthreat wrote: | Because the factory manager is the one selling product | out the back door. | s1artibartfast wrote: | This is definitely the case in med tech, devices and Pharma. | Many manufacturers avoid China because you can set a spec but | you can't trust the outgoing QA testing. You can do incoming | QA testing, but then you are double testing and losing a lot | of efficiencies when those things would be best done at the | supplier | londons_explore wrote: | You do spot incoming QA testing. | | And if you find any issues, you test the whole shipment. | | And then you compare the results to the outgoing QA test | results. | | And if any results can't be explained by failures relating | to shipping, then you fire your supplier. | | You let them know ahead of time that this is the procedure | you'll apply, and then they'll do proper QA testing. | jbay808 wrote: | > The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand | tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but | rather of its design | | There's a lot more to production quality than just product | design. Quality of materials, manufacturing tolerances, heat | treatment, surface cleanliness, quality control procedures, | tooling wear, order of operations, assembly jig design, and so | on. Some of those may be affected by the country in which it's | made, and some may not. While you may say those are "design" in | that the designer specifies the material they want, whether | their product really gets made the way they envision is not | always up to them. | | And even when it comes to just design, I'll say one thing: I | have a lot more confidence in the designs produced by designers | whose desks are within walking distance of the production line. | BugsJustFindMe wrote: | > _In fact because less is spent on labor, a better quality | product can be had for the same price._ | | In theory yes, but in practice it doesn't seem to ever pan out | that way. When was the last time a company that moved its | manufacturing from the US to China to increase profits didn't | also cheap out on materials, quality control, and customer | service? | clhodapp wrote: | Apple comes to mind. | | But yes, it seems very rare. | Tao3300 wrote: | Even they are suspect. The quality of the batteries in | MacBooks at our office has been terrible. Lots of them | swelling up and splitting the case apart. | londons_explore wrote: | Battery swelling is rarely poor manufacturing. | | Nearly always it's poor design of the battery chemistry | or battery management system. | AlbertCory wrote: | Indeed, the quality of the keyboards is lousy these days. | A classic case of lack of attention to detail in | manufacturing. | | And this is AFTER they fixed the infamous design flaw on | mine: | | https://thenextweb.com/news/what-hell-apple-butterfly- | keyboa... | doodlebugging wrote: | >The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand | tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but | rather of its design. All the decisions made during that | process and all the cost / performance considerations made are | what determine the ultimate outcome. | | I have to disagree with this. The quality of consumer-grade | hand tools is a function of who controls the manufacturing | process and quality control procedures. It has very little to | do with who writes the specs, approves the engineering | drawings, or selects the materials. The quality depends on how | closely the whole process was monitored and controlled by the | entity who is attempting to have the tool produced. If they | can't or don't closely watch the process and have robust | reject/accept criteria then the tool can appear in the package | to be fully up to spec without actually hitting any of the | design specs. | | >It's common to blame Chinese manufacturing for cheap tools, | but this gets the causation backwards. | | This is not true. Blaming Chinese or Indian etc manufacturers | is actually pinning the tail in the correct spot on the donkey. | As mentioned by at least one other respondent, Chinese | manufacturers will substitute inferior materials and violate | other specs at will unless you have eyes on the process and the | right to test and reject everything out of spec. | | >We wanted cheap tools and sending production overseas was the | only way to get them. In fact because less is spent on labor, a | better quality product can be had for the same price. | | Don't include me in that "we". I had no part as a consumer in | the decision to send production overseas. In fact, whenever | "we" would go out to buy a new tool or tool set we would always | consider where the product was made in the purchasing decision | precisely because we had previously bought a tool from a | company that had moved production to China or India and later | had that tool prematurely fail in normal use. The production | location is a strong indicator of quality. | | Price only comes into the equation when you are purchasing a | tool that you may only use once. In that case you are taking a | chance that the product will last long enough to finish your | task. Harbor Freight mostly sells tools made in China and other | foreign countries. Tradesmen take their business to HF because | the return policy is lenient enough that if a tool fails you | can take it into their store and walk out with a new one in a | few minutes after describing the nature of the failure and the | reason for the return. Hand tools like drill bits, | screwdrivers, allen wrenches, hand wrenches, etc tend not to be | as durable as an equivalent 50 year old Craftsman, Proto, S-K, | Snap-On, etc. tool. I have watched HF drill bits untwist while | trying to drill a hole through a pine 2x4. That is a quality | control failure. | | The false idea that spending less on labor gives the consumer a | better product for the same price ignores the reality that it | simply doesn't work like that and sounds like something that a | person who had never owned or used hand or power tools would | say. You might have a career in marketing if you can get enough | potential customers drunk enough to believe that shit. | | >So bringing it back here without increasing the cost to the | consumer means altering the design to make it cheaper to build, | or banking on supply chain efficiencies to make it worthwhile. | | One can also alter the production method by using improved | tools or techniques and materials. | | At the end of the day though when your job pays for the tools | you will use and requires you to do certain tasks day in and | day out then you will find that the employer will frequently | have a short list of approved tool vendors so that you will | have to pay for a tool that is not on the approved list. This | helps insure that techs have durable tools that are fit for | purpose and have a proven history of performance so that the | company and the techs will not have to constantly replace tools | that would not have failed had they chosen more expensive, more | reliable brands. | | Tool branding is everything and people who use tools absolutely | care about where they are made and who owns the company making | them. Reputation is everything with some things. | fabfabfab wrote: | 100%. I worked in the heart of semiconductor manufacturing. | Quality primarily a result of systems such as COD (Contain- | your-own-defect), SPC (statistical process control), | inspection metrology (traceability to NIST, MCA, | reproducibility, repeatability, etc.), 5M+E (man, machine, | materials, methods, measurement and environment), copy exact, | etc. | | What OP is talking about is that good tools are the ones with | better design. OP mistakes the technical term "quality" with | "good design". Quality is producing things as per | specifications and allowable tolerances. | stacktrust wrote: | _> Tool branding is everything and people who use tools | absolutely care about where they are made and who owns the | company making them. Reputation is everything with some | things._ | | Good chart of tool company owners, | https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers- | who-... | | _> It may surprise you to know that only a handful of power | tool companies own your favorite tools. That's right, most | tool brands fall under a parent company that also controls | additional power tool manufacturers and brands._ | | At this point, reputation and branding needs to be separated | out to the level of tool lines or even model numbers, e.g. | Ridgid tools, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32453919 | | _> After signing the deal in 2003, TTi took over the | production of Ridgid power tools. These tools are licensed | for sale only at The Home Depot, and all of these tools are | produced by TTi, not Emerson. However, TTi does not own | Ridgid or the rights to the brand name. Rather, TTi has a | licensing agreement with Emerson that allows them to produce | and distribute the tools under the Ridgid name._ | | While most Ridgid power tools are made in China by TTI, the | well-regarded Ridgid shop vacs are made in Mexico by Emerson. | | Ridgid toolboxes are made in Israel by Keter, which also | makes enclosures for Milwaukee Packout and Home Depot's Husky | brand. | thaumaturgy wrote: | There's a great YouTube channel, Project Farm | (https://www.youtube.com/c/ProjectFarm/videos), that features a | single guy testing, grading, and comparing all kinds of things | you might find in your garage. He's not sponsored and tries to | be objective throughout the process. It isn't perfect but he | puts a ton of effort in and for backyard science it's pretty | good. | | Anyway, he mentions country of origin for a lot of tools and | there's a clear trend towards better results for items made in | the USA. | | Obviously China is perfectly capable of producing high quality | products, but regardless of the details of the causes, the end | result is that "made in the USA" is a reliable signal for | higher quality products. | nostromo wrote: | China has a "caveat emptor" culture that I suspect plays a | role in this. | | In most western countries and other countries, like Japan, | selling counterfeit or barely functional products is seen as | somewhat shameful. But in China it's often seen as being | clever or cunning. | | Chinese consumers are used to this and are very cautious | about what they buy and from whom, and of course negotiating | a reasonable cost for the goods being sold. | | In the US and most of the west, consumers feel entitled to a | basic standard of quality, even at the lowest prices. | | This leads to consumers being confused in the west when they | buy very cheap goods from China and the quality is crap. | Well, yeah, you got what you paid for. | Teever wrote: | It's not that it's seen as merely shameful in other | countries, it's that it's seen as fraudulent and illegal. | | Trying to play fraud off as a cultural difference and | misunderstanding is frankly bullshit victim blaming. | londons_explore wrote: | 'barely functional' isn't fraud. And in most cases the | cheapest made in china product is barely functional. | | It's only deliberately selling nonfunctional products | that would meet the definition of fraud. | solarkraft wrote: | Whether you're angry about this depends on which culture | you subscribe to. | collegeburner wrote: | yea i've seen the attitude extend to college here, we | generally have some idea that cheating is wrong but most of | the chinese students i met seemed to think it was fine if | they could get away with it. | WheatM wrote: | systemvoltage wrote: | > The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand | tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but | rather of its design. | | The point isn't about quality, the point is about having | manufacturing capacity to turn these places from making tools | to making aircraft parts in a pinch when shit hits the fan. | | Having domestic manufacturing capacity of the shittiest tools | is _far_ better than _only_ having designers that 'd twiddle | their thumbs in war time, not knowing how to setup high volume | manufacturing capability quickly. | | Most people here do not understand how difficult it is to make | literally anything in high volume. Take the simplest thing like | a puck of aluminum. Now, try establishing a manufacturing chain | that can make 8 million of these per week. You'd be on your | knees trying to make 1k a week, let alone 8 million. We're note | even talking about having SPC or other systems that monitor | quality. HVM is the most underappreciated aspect of engineering | by far and it is trivialized by clueless media. Even the most | educated people appreciate design over manufacturing. | oneplane wrote: | I'm not entirely sure how any of this matters. Tools and what bar | they have to pass are just design choices. If you design a tool | to be bad, it will be bad, no matter who manufactures them or | where. At the same time, if you don't have good quality | assurance/control and no tests that the manufacturer has to pass, | then the design doesn't matter, because the product apparently | doesn't have to meet the design specification and the whole | design is practically arbitrary. | | The only true change to the product that could happen is either a | design change, or a change in available resources. Some multi- | axis CNC machines are apparently not legally available everywhere | in the world, so that could be a locality factor. On the other | hand, plenty of companies design assemblies with complex | components manufactured in various places around the world to be | integrated elsewhere later on. | death_syn wrote: | I'm interested in how these compare to quality Chinese tools like | Harbor Freight's ICON line. | kube-system wrote: | Icon tools are Taiwanese | NotYourLawyer wrote: | Or, as the Chinese say, Chinese. | | Kidding, and Icon tools are quite decent. | kube-system wrote: | Most Taiwanese tools are pretty good in my experience. The | best deals at harbor freight IMO are the Taiwanese tools | that aren't branded "icon" | walrus01 wrote: | Anecdotal, but the Milwaukee packout modular stacking | toolbox/rolling system has become wildly popular with electrical | and low voltage + premises fiber contractors. | | Home Depot and several others have tried to clone it with their | own cheaper house brands which are kinda okay, but not as good as | the original. | bradly wrote: | Pack out is great. A great alternative to Festool's Systainer | system. | bombcar wrote: | Packout has gone wildly successful, _far_ outstripping what | Milwaukee thought it would hit. | | There's tons of stuff in the pipeline for it, too. | | The other "good" modular storage systems are made by the same | subcontractor in Israel it seems. | | Though I find packout easier to disconnect compared to | toughsystem2 and the systainers are nice but a bit fragile. | whilestanding wrote: | Increasingly looking like my decision to give up bootcamping | myself into a coastal tech job and come back home to the midwest | and work in a factory was the correct choice long term. Plenty of | job security with all the onshoring happening. Ironically I'd be | worried if I was in tech about the WFH trend and out of touch | entitlement of the zoom class bringing about outsourcing again. | Oh and the funny money ponzi scheme collapsing + that whole | ageism thing.. | systemvoltage wrote: | That's amazing, care to shed light on how you transitioned from | tech to manf? What kind of things do you do? | chaosbutters314 wrote: | seconding as someone interested in your transition. | sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: | This reads like AI-produced ad text. | stacktrust wrote: | The human author of the text and this well-known blog is Stuart | Deutsch, https://twitter.com/toolguyd | | Toolguyd has an active community (e.g. 100+ comments on this | post) with real-world experience, challenging claims made by | the blog. | _Adam wrote: | Wow. AI is now good enough that writers are considered robot | until proven human. | stacktrust wrote: | One could also draw an inference about readers, rather than | writers. | insaneirish wrote: | > The human author of the text and this well-known blog is | Stuart Deutsch, https://twitter.com/toolguyd | | I find him to be pretty reliable overall, and I believe he's | drawn ire from some manufacturers due to his honesty. | | He also has a PhD (in materials science IIRC), FWIW. | tacitusarc wrote: | This post in particular, though, felt like a generated | advertisement. There was too much repetition, too much | promotion and strange wording. | Cupertino95014 wrote: | Indeed, I felt like a human editor could have cut the length in | half without sacrificing anything. | unethical_ban wrote: | "AI" has come a long way, then! | | It is a bit fawning, and the sans font looks like a cheap blog. | The content itself doesn't feel bot-driven. | kylehotchkiss wrote: | hope it sticks! Sears/craftsman tools were well respected before | they dumped production overseas. | kube-system wrote: | Craftsman tools were always just rebranded tools from other | manufacturers. You can still buy many similar tools from the | same US manufacturer with other names stamped into them. | | https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/craftsman-hand-t... | blt wrote: | This is good news, but Milwaukee is primarily a power tool | company. Bringing power tool manufacturing back to the USA would | be much bigger news. | | Project Farm is a YouTube channel that reviews tools. I've | noticed that most of the made-in-USA products are relatively | simple - hand tools, drill bits, adhesives, lubricants, and so | on. Any complex assembly that includes electronics is almost | invariably made in Asia. | | It feels like the remaining made-in-USA tools are those where the | manufacturer doesn't need to do much more than maintain some old | machines and keep them fed with raw materials. | fyzix wrote: | Low prices or well paid workforce...Choose one! | | This is a result of decades of regulations and labour laws. | Paying Americans 10x more to make similar quality tools is a | terrible business decision. This cannot be fixed without | government incentives/handouts (eg. Chips Act) | chongli wrote: | You don't have to choose one. With automation you can have a | small, highly paid, highly skilled workforce do the work of a | much larger, low skill, low paid workforce and actually | produce higher quality products at a lower price. | happyopossum wrote: | So you're picking low prices and an UNpaid workforce - | cutting a workforce by 90% but doubling pay for the | remaining 10% doesn't improve a local or domestic economy. | abfan1127 wrote: | Chips act doesn't fix this. we pay taxes. we pay people to | administer these silly corporate welfare programs. Companies | allegedly keep manufacturing here with cheap prices... but | now the prices of those objects SHOULD include the taxes to | do so. | mc32 wrote: | Agreed. It's not always straightforward but I also feel there | is a disconnect when on the one hand people say the answer to | worker's poor pay is "Unions!" and then on the other hand | they want cheap things and also say that people have a right | to cheaper things because that improves quality of life | through increased purchasing power... Well, that's true if | you have a professional white collared job. If you're in the | lower middle class or in the working class... offshoring to | cheaper locations is going to hurt the working class because | now they are out of a job or have fewer choice jobs --their | job market as a worker has no power --you want to get paid | more, great, we'll ship production to Mexico or China. What, | you want better pay for being a janitor? Great, we're getting | cheap labor from unregulated guest workers and you're out of | luck. | stacktrust wrote: | A handful of DeWalt power tools are "assembled from global | materials" in USA, https://www.allamericanmade.com/where-are- | dewalt-tools-made/ Jackson, TN Air | compressors Hempstead, MD Drill and saw components | Charlotte, NC Cordless drills, screwdrivers | Greenfield, IN Grinder, recip saws, hammer drills | rch wrote: | Same for STIHL: | | > A majority of STIHL products sold in America are made in | America of U.S. and foreign materials. | | --https://www.stihlusa.com/stihl-made-in-america/ | e-master wrote: | Indeed, I had one of those - absolutely lovely piece of | machinery, as most dewalt tools really. | kevin_thibedeau wrote: | That manufacturing process is the result of bean counters | determining it's a waste to ship boxed products that are 50% | air overseas in a container. Ship the broken down components | instead with denser packing and have a minimum wage worker | bolt it together stateside. It isn't an enlightened return to | domestic production. | stacktrust wrote: | It's a start. Next step is automation-heavy U.S. production | of specific components. | gurumeditations wrote: | American manufacturing looks like low-wage workers making | $12 an hour (a few years ago) making windshields. A real | American manufacturing renaissance would be German, with | high skilled trained professionals designing, building, and | operating advanced machines to create complex products. | Basically what the Chinese are continually getting better | at. | | There is no hope. America can't even agree on giving | community college to poor kids, let alone training a | generation of toolmakers, electronic engineers, | programmers, and every other profession involved in making | things out of atoms more complex than a handtool or a | radiator. This country is dying and wildly unstable | politically. | stacktrust wrote: | TSMC is flying recent American college graduates to | Taiwan for 18 months of internship/training, in | preparation for work at the TSMC fab in Phoenix, AZ, | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29676073 | collegeburner wrote: | second the project farm recommendation btw. he's 100% the best | source of trustworthy reviews with credible methods for tools i | found, i check him every time i need a good tool. | curiousgal wrote: | The only reason I recognized this brand is because of Project | Farm who delivers insightful tool review/comparison videos. | | Latest was published 4 hours ago. | | https://youtu.be/E-Xfv-7FFNk | CraigJPerry wrote: | I noticed at the most recent Milwaukee power tools event that | they're really going all in on specialist tools. This is a strong | signal that they're going to continue to cream the competition | because irrational or not, people end up preferring a single | battery platform, it's not guaranteed they'll stick to one brand | for future power tool purchases but it's extremely sticky. The | Milwaukee battery power tool ecosystem started off being better | than the competition by having better battery technology on the | market sooner. Now they're going all in on diversification of | specialist tools. | | Should i buy a dewalt or makita or bosch battery power tool | knowing that i can add other common tools in future or should i | go Milwaukee and enjoy better battery choices, and a far far | wider selection of power tools for future purchases? | | If i hadn't started out with team blue, I'd be buying team red. I | might switch when i need to replace batteries next. | bradly wrote: | > I noticed at the most recent Milwaukee power tools event that | they're really going all in on specialist tools. | | I hope this means a Domino and proper track saw competitor in | the works. | stacktrust wrote: | Are there adapters to migrate between some battery platforms? | londons_explore wrote: | DRM is coming to batteries to prevent such adaptors. | sbierwagen wrote: | Yes. But for certain vendors and voltages it can make the | tool much more bulky: the Milwaukee 12v is cylindrical and | inserts into the grip while Dewalt 12 is rectangular, etc. | GuB-42 wrote: | Not only that but is would add an extra failure point. Hand | tools are made for rough use, and I certainly wouldn't want | a flimsy adapter between my tool and battery. | | And I am just a home gamer. I can't imagine a pro whose | living depends on reliable tools rely on hacks like these. | These guys buy absurdly expensive Hilti tools because this | is a brand they can count on, they can spend a couple | hundred bucks on a pair of proper batteries. | stacktrust wrote: | Country-of-Origin (CoO) metadata can influence some buying | decisions. | | https://www.madeinamerica.gov/ | | _> When the U.S. government spends your tax dollars on American | goods, we ensure our future is made in America. "Made in America" | policies are designed to increase reliance on domestic supply | chains and ultimately reduce the need to spend taxpayer dollars | on foreign-made goods ... Various laws and regulations establish | requirements for U.S. government procurement and assistance to | support American manufacturing._ | | https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-ma... | | _> The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing | deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives | the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against | false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin._ | | April 2022, https://www.ftc.gov/business- | guidance/blog/2022/04/ftc-charg... | | _> FTC charges battery maker in first case under Made in USA | Labeling Rule ... the order prohibits them from making | unqualified U.S.-origin claims unless they have proof that the | product's final assembly or processing - and all significant | processing - takes place in the US and that all or virtually all | ingredients or components are made and sourced here ... The order | further requires that any qualified Made in USA claims include | clear disclosures about the extent to which the product contains | foreign parts, ingredients, or components, or involved foreign | processing._ | | Some ecommerce tool sites have reliable CoO metadata and search | filters. | | https://www.harryepstein.com/ | | https://madeinusatools.com/ | selectodude wrote: | Raises the bar from whom? Klein has been making tools in the USA | for over a century. | colechristensen wrote: | Perhaps for Milwaukee. Any amount of turning back offshoring | manufacturing is appreciated. | joezydeco wrote: | The new factory is in Milwaukee but they put a lot of money and | effort into a new engineering center in downtown Chicago. I've | been contacted by more than a handful of recruiters trying to | fill positions there. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-08-14 23:00 UTC)