[HN Gopher] Learnings of a CEO: Wade Foster, Zapier
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       Learnings of a CEO: Wade Foster, Zapier
        
       Author : alexzeitler
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2022-08-15 18:02 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ycombinator.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ycombinator.com)
        
       | clement_b wrote:
       | Zapier's impact in the broader ecosystem isn't unlike AWS' in the
       | sense that it has enabled so many orgs to build faster without
       | the hassle (connectors, APIs, event processing, ...). I wonder
       | how many startups got where they are now thanks to good old
       | Zapier-based workflows built by sales ops & marketing teams
       | keen/forced to bypass eng :)
       | 
       | Kudos to the team; What a success this is!
        
       | dwb wrote:
       | The word is "lessons".
        
       | zkid18 wrote:
       | Curious, how does hn community use Zapier? I tried it couple of
       | times, but it's tough to build anything sophisticated there than
       | basic trigger-based scenarios Imo, integromat (make.com) or n8n
       | are way more powerful.
        
         | soared wrote:
         | As a no code but very technical person zapier is incredible.
         | I've posted about it before but in the adtech world a lot of
         | people are technical but don't code and automate lots of
         | tasks/integrations/alerts/ etc with zapier.
        
       | nlstitch wrote:
       | hmm, too bad, nothing about holacracy / self steering teams, how
       | it failed them and what they learned from that.
        
       | kzh_ wrote:
       | Wade gave a memorable talk during our YC batch. When asked how he
       | ran Zapier remotely, which was unusual at the time, he said
       | something along the lines of "When I want to talk with the team,
       | I open Slack. When I want to file a support ticket, I open
       | Zendesk."
       | 
       | Ironically, we were the last in-person batch that was cut short
       | by COVID, so his comments turned out to be quite helpful.
        
       | mdorazio wrote:
       | If nothing else, this interview shows that massive venture
       | funding and hiring bonanzas are not the only way to build a
       | successful company. I feel like that message gets lost too often
       | in the startup sphere.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | No but it's much harder to compete when your competitors are
         | fueled by nearly unlimited VC money. They can pay better
         | compensation, hire more people, have lower prices and so on.
        
           | code_biologist wrote:
           | The combo of more _and better_ people is really a one two
           | punch of being well funded.
        
         | pbreit wrote:
         | With n=1, not sure if conclusive.
        
           | qbasic_forever wrote:
           | Atlassian bootstrapped to a billion dollar public company
           | without any VC: https://www.indiehackers.com/post/how-
           | atlassian-bootstrapped...
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | phren0logy wrote:
       | Can we just never say "learnings" again, please?
        
         | eskatonic wrote:
         | As soon as I see the word "learnings" in the title, I know that
         | whoever wrote the article has nothing of value to say.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | Is that an official ask?
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | The issue here is that we have the evaluate the impact of
           | boiling that ocean. Is it a robust, punt of an appropriate
           | learning? Should we reach out and leverage that decision to
           | ensure we're giving 110% before we sent it over the wall?
           | Best practice, the bleeding edge of best practice, is to
           | empower employees. There are far too many moving parts to
           | avoid the low-hanging fruit. One of our core competencies is
           | leveraging out of pocket individuals to avoid jumping the
           | shark, because as we all know, when it's time to make hay,
           | make hay. Just some blue sky thinking from our last thought
           | shower is to drill down into our core values before sending
           | the key takeaways over to our tiger team. That way, the
           | S.W.A.T. team can make sure we're not moving the goalposts.
           | What we really need is the bandwidth to gain traction on this
           | aha moment ensuring this becomes a game changer, not just
           | short term. We need to bring to the table any mission
           | critical silver bullets, while keeping our stakeholders in
           | the loop. In the end, we should consider trimming the fat,
           | hard stop.
           | 
           | I hate business lingo, and it's everywhere. Constant.
        
             | rcurry wrote:
             | Drop the last sentence and post this on LinkedIn. You'll be
             | a Sales Leadership Influencer in no time.
        
             | petsormeat wrote:
             | I have many coworkers with English as their next languages.
             | I feel terrible for them when they use phrases like these,
             | innocently assuming they're becoming more sophisticated in
             | their usage of English.
        
             | thatnerdyguy wrote:
             | Can we double-click into that?
        
               | rcurry wrote:
               | We should at least drill down.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | The article contains five learnings.
        
         | elcomet wrote:
         | What would you say instead?
        
           | williadc wrote:
           | "lessons" almost always fits better. In this case "Lessons
           | for a CEO" or "Lessons from a CEO" would be preferable.
        
             | gms wrote:
             | You don't need the 'almost' qualifier :)
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | you have to fight forest fires when you see the camper dropping
         | the butt. Smokey says, hit 'em hard at birth, they don't re-
         | offend within reaching distance.
         | 
         | At least, thats the lesson I teach.
        
       | RyanShook wrote:
       | Can we watch the feedback course Wade teaches? This is an
       | important topic that I've found varies greatly from manager to
       | manager and would appreciate a framework.
        
       | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
       | Zapier. Brilliant when it started and good for small integrations
       | today. I say that as a heavy user. Not brilliant and torturous
       | with complex integrations due to the linear zap creation UI in my
       | view. Doesn't handle failed connections well in my opinion.
       | Integromat's object UI is much easier to work with (but also far
       | from perfect).
        
       | victor106 wrote:
       | > because of Zapier's network effect on our developer platform
       | side
       | 
       | what exactly is Zapiers network effect?
        
       | sharps_xp wrote:
       | I cannot imagine they are getting a good return on 700 people
       | weekly all hands meetings..
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | Yeah, like, who's gonna seriously follow those? One in ten? PMs
         | and POs?
         | 
         | I honestly think that in all the companies I've been the all
         | hands should've been a 5 minute read email, rather than yet
         | another meeting that is splitting my day.
        
       | alexpotato wrote:
       | These types of blog posts/articles always make me curious:
       | 
       | How were these people able to transition from founders of a tiny
       | company to successfully running and managing large (people or
       | revenue) companies? Many of them had never done this before so
       | how did they figure out what to do and how to do it?
       | 
       | I often think of Zuckerberg or the Collison brothers as examples.
       | 
       | They hadn't done anything like this before so how did it work out
       | for them?
       | 
       | - Is it survivor bias?
       | 
       | - Were the ideas and the execution so good at the beginning that
       | once the company was up and running it didn't matter if they made
       | mistakes?
       | 
       | - Did they have excellent advisors/mentors? If so, how did they
       | know who to listen to? (I think of the scene in The Social
       | Network where Justin Timberlake advises Jesse Eisenberg to go in
       | wearing pyjamas to a VC meeting)
       | 
       | - First mover advantage? (not the case for FB or Stripe as far as
       | I can tell)
       | 
       | All of the above comes from reading this article:
       | https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/andrew-mason-on-grou...
       | 
       | In it, Andrew Mason talks about how Groupon "followed the data"
       | into offering more and more deals to the point that they imploded
       | the company. He, like Zuck and the Collisons, had never done this
       | before and seemed intelligent and was acting in good faith. Yet
       | things went south for him.
       | 
       | Genuinely curious to hear people's responses.
        
         | P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote:
         | Critically thinking and not being afraid of getting it wrong.
         | 
         | 1. You can't move from a small company to running a large
         | company without being able to identify (eventually) where it
         | works in one but not the other, so you must think critically.
         | 
         | 2. Not being afraid to get it wrong also means not shying away
         | from an admission that you need to improve and then doing so.
         | 
         | I think where a lot of people get it wrong is more static
         | thinking. Applying what worked for you at the small company to
         | the large and expecting it to work.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | As an aside, I see this all the time, it's not just a founder
         | problem. I'm of the opinion that the reason agile mostly
         | doesn't work is because well-meaning people don't actually know
         | what good software dev looks like and reach out to
         | prescriptions such as scrum. They form the belief that's the
         | right way to do it and hang onto it, when in actuality if
         | they'd make a few non-agile adjustments they may find
         | themselves with a lot more success.
        
         | time_to_smile wrote:
         | Only a partial answer to your question (there's plenty of good
         | ones), but it reminds me of the time I reached out to the CTO
         | of a small startup looking to hire a director of data science.
         | 
         | I've lead a few teams before and have a decade+ plus of
         | experience at a range of companies so I had a pretty reasonable
         | idea about what's out there, and I figured it was a small
         | startup so I might be a good fit.
         | 
         | I got a pretty blunt response that they were looking for
         | someone that had managed teams for over 5 years, preferably at
         | a single org. Not unreasonable but when I looked at the CTO's
         | linked in they had only ever managed their current startup and
         | only for 3 years at the time of the discussion.
         | 
         | I just found it curious that they felt the job of CTO could be
         | learned pretty much as you go, but anyone without their target
         | experience wasn't even worth talking to.
         | 
         | It looks like they had major layoffs a year ago, and aren't
         | making much of a dent in their space so it's quite possible
         | that "survivorship bias" is a big part of it as well.
        
           | myownpetard wrote:
           | It makes sense in another light though. You should try to
           | hire people that will bolster your weak areas. In this case a
           | lack of experience managing larger teams.
        
         | ren_engineer wrote:
         | >How were these people able to transition from founders of a
         | tiny company to successfully running and managing large (people
         | or revenue) companies? Many of them had never done this before
         | so how did they figure out what to do and how to do it?
         | 
         | lots of mentorship from investors and others with experience.
         | Even the most famous young founders had a veteran executive
         | running a lot of things behind the scenes. Steve Jobs had Mike
         | Markkula, Eric Schmidt was running the show at Google, Facebook
         | had Thiel and Sean Parker. This applies to pretty much every
         | one of these companies
         | 
         | most of the startup myths about these companies are embellished
         | because having a young prodigy founder is good for marketing.
         | Of course some are never able to make the jump and get replaced
         | by the board
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | Once you have even a small amount (say $500k) of perceived
         | success you find yourself meeting "helpers" constantly, people
         | who want to mentor you, people who want to be your friend, and
         | magically all these people want something from you.
         | 
         | As your perceived worth goes up you start meeting more
         | "interesting" people who want to help more, and of course they
         | ultimately want something more from you.
         | 
         | So you eventually have a big network through this process, and
         | at a certain level its not even about trading favors, but
         | trading the potential for a favor. And with this support group
         | you can answer almost any question, market trends, merger
         | opportunities, fund raising access, its all there for you.
        
         | silexia wrote:
         | As someone who has also successfully done this, I think it is a
         | matter of experience. You make mistakes and learn from them.
         | Lots of BSers get hired into executive positions, it's best to
         | simply do it and learn yourself along the way.
        
         | jrvarela56 wrote:
         | My impression is these people are great learners and upgrade
         | themselves to do what's required of them to grow the company -
         | most importantly how to hire, empower and motivate talented
         | people. We're (HNers I guess; assuming dev-focused mentality)
         | bound to think it means reading the manual and cracking complex
         | problems, but it's more towards prioritizing, figuring out who
         | knows what and how to manage people.
         | 
         | I'm not an investor so this is all anecdata from going through
         | YC and having a close friend get to 100Ms in funding. My friend
         | has obv hired an amazing exec team, but like thousands of
         | things, he learned how to do it by reading, asking for advice
         | and asking for help. Early stage he figured out how to get a
         | 'technical cofounder' - literally got on the phone with 100
         | engineers (got me to screen like 3-5 to get a gist of what I
         | was looking for). Of course, I was only just one source: for
         | everything he had to figure out/study he got input from many
         | sources.
         | 
         | They learn, they figure out what's important enough for them to
         | put their time/attention, they delegate to talented people. I
         | guess the quote 'A players hire A players and B players hire C
         | players' applies too. They can tell who's an A player by
         | setting the bar high enough to their standard.
         | 
         | I think there wont be a straight answer to this question -
         | people who figure it out make huge companies and a lot of money
         | as a reward for cracking this puzzle. Re:groupon then on top of
         | that you have a couple of dice rolling and if your number
         | doesn't hit you're out.
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | Imho: once you have a product it's all about luck into meeting
         | and selecting the right people to help you.
        
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