[HN Gopher] MacBook Air M1 screen crack for no apparent reason
___________________________________________________________________
MacBook Air M1 screen crack for no apparent reason
Author : lewisl9029
Score : 275 points
Date : 2022-08-15 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (origin-discussions2-us-dr-prz.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (origin-discussions2-us-dr-prz.apple.com)
| sackerhews wrote:
| My friends iPhone got _replaced_ 3 times, every single time the
| same fault. Something to do with audio interface going missing
| and mic not working.
|
| His next phone was an Android.
|
| I remember looking it up and there were rumours that Apple had
| initially acknowledged this fault and replaced them with no
| questions asked but then withdrawn the memo.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Many faults like this are caused by some behaviour of your
| friend that none of Apples internal testers did.
|
| For example, maybe your friend used a specific app that no
| tester every used.
|
| I remember once a big company doing an emergency product recall
| because they hadn't tested putting the product in fleece lined
| pockets. If you put it in fleece lined pockets, it wouldn't
| boot anymore due to the static discharge of the fleece rubbing
| on the plastic surface as you walked around.
|
| Yet they had 1000+ beta testers, yet were somehow unlucky that
| not a single one used fleece lined pockets!
| estiven2006 wrote:
| [deleted]
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Page 49 of 49_
|
| That tells you something...
|
| Cupertino, we have a problem.
| sam1r wrote:
| I was shocked when I saw there was _49_ pages. Remember, the m1
| is just a few years old!
| happyopossum wrote:
| A lot of the 'me too' responses are about other MacBooks -
| not just the m1 air.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I don't think this has anything to do with the M1 chip. I
| think the case may be a bit too tight, and flexes when it
| cools, and that is enough to cause the crack.
| flak48 wrote:
| M1 = "the 1st gen MacBook Air with the M1 chip"
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Yes, I know, but I don't think the chip is the reason for
| the cracking. I think it may be tolerances in the case.
|
| Maybe they also started using a different, more brittle
| glass, with this generation. Maybe the stress has always
| been there, but didn't cause cracks, with the last type
| of glass.
| flipdot wrote:
| You missed the point. Nobody's saying chip is the
| culprit--"M1" in this context refers to the Macbook
| series powered by the eponymous chip. Which means those
| Macbooks are only a few years old at most, yet there are
| 49 pages of user reports that their screens are prone to
| cracking for no reason.
| happyopossum wrote:
| No, there are 49 pages of complaints, but many of them
| are about other MacBooks.
| fcoury wrote:
| Whoa, I read it as 49 of 49 _replies_ and thought: it might be
| a problem but doesn 't seem to be widespread. Now as an owner
| of a M1 myself, I am really worried.
| vletal wrote:
| Maybe internally, but we have to remember how long it took them
| to return back to the old keyboards without ever acknowledging
| it was a horrible mistake.
| ortusdux wrote:
| It's things like this that make Framework laptops sound more and
| more appealing. An OEM replacement screen is $180 and swaps out
| in minutes.
| opan wrote:
| If only they had high-end ARM chips as an option.
| asdff wrote:
| The current macbook air body is pretty poor. I had one of the
| late intel ones for a spell before overheating killed the logic
| board, and it developed an outline of the keyboard on the screen
| within a few months just from the clamshell being closed daily. I
| wasn't even carrying this thing in a bag, it just sat on a desk.
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _The current macbook air body is pretty poor._
|
| > _I had one of the late intel ones_
|
| The current or the previous?
| happyopossum wrote:
| > I had one of the late intel ones
|
| They've redesigned the MBA since then -
| https://www.apple.com/macbook-air-m2/
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Dear Apple,
|
| Its okay to not have to make your laptops ultra skinny if it
| means you avoid these sort of issues.
|
| Sincerely, A customer waiting to buy a decent laptop that is
| sturdy and comfortable to type on.
| [deleted]
| alerighi wrote:
| Then don't buy an Apple laptop, simple. Buy a Thinkpad that is
| almost indestructible and you don't have these kind of
| problems, or as I did a Dell XPS 15 (though I can't talk about
| how solid it is, since I have it only since 2 months).
|
| Surely I would prefer Dell for the support, I have 1 year of
| premium assistance (if there is a fault a technician will come
| where I am to make the repair, I don't have to bring it to a
| store that takes days to do the repair on a computer that I
| need for my job) and with like 20$ more I got the coverage even
| for accidental damage.
|
| Apple doesn't have correct policy, first it doesn't recognize
| in warranty faults that should, and secondly repairs outside
| the warranty period cost more than buying a new computer, and
| it doesn't sell spare parts to others that are not Apple
| authorized repair center (that needs to apply the policy of
| Apple otherwise they will not send the spare parts): something
| called mafia.
| deanCommie wrote:
| Dear Giancarlo,
|
| Please buy a MacBook Pro - the new M1 and M2 models are nice,
| thick, sturdy, comfortable, fast, and have a beast of a
| battery.
|
| The Macbook Air line is specifically for the non-Pro consumer
| who values portability and size over everything else.
|
| Sincerely, Anyone that can Google this.
| 0000011111 wrote:
| I think the keyboards are sub par on the pro and Air models.
| samatman wrote:
| The keyboard on the 16" M1 is my favorite laptop keyboard
| Apple has manufactured, of the ones I've used.
|
| Which is all types, and the majority of models, they've
| produced since the aluminum 12" G4 Powerbook. YMMV.
| noodlesUK wrote:
| Further PSA: don't buy the m1/m2 MBPs. It's a weird machine
| now that the m1 pro/max MBPs are out, and the m2 air with its
| redesign is also out. Get one of those instead
| buzzy_hacker wrote:
| Dear Commie,
|
| A user in the same thread reports the issue for a MacBook
| Pro: https://origin-discussions2-us-dr-
| prz.apple.com/thread/25279...
|
| Sincerely, Anyone that can read the linked page
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Thick? Sturdy? They're 15mm/0.61 inches thick. Most of that
| is used up by the base, the screen is a terrifyingly flimsy
| 3.6mm thin.
|
| Comfortable? The key travel is 1mm. I'd hardly call that
| comfortable, that's a concession to thin-ness.
|
| And they're not that fast just looking at power specs - the
| new processors are impressively efficient, but if they
| prioritized professional performance and effective heat
| dissipation over being skinny, just imagine what that
| efficient processor could do with 70% more power
| dissipation/heat removal.
|
| Also, "fast" and "beast of a battery" may be true for now,
| but in a few years, when memory and storage are cheaper and
| faster, you won't be able to update, and when your battery
| starts to degrade you won't be able to click in a new one.
| Again, because long-term performance, upgradeability, and
| repairability have been sacrificed for the sake of thin.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| I can see the merit in offering a "workstation" model that
| throws noise and heat out the window in favor of power, but
| as a native mobile dev who's compiling all day I think the
| 14"/16" models make the right tradeoffs for the
| overwhelming majority.
|
| No, my company provided work M1 Pro 16" isn't going to beat
| my 5950X custom built tower or some of the high end Ryzen
| 6000 series laptops, but that's fine. It's still very fast
| and responsive while being inaudible 99% of the time, never
| hitting lap scorching temperatures, and having battery life
| measured in double digits.
|
| I suspect that an unwieldy, hot, loud desktop replacement
| M-series machine would be very niche.
| samatman wrote:
| You don't have to imagine, the same processors are
| available in the Mini line and direct comparisons have been
| made in detail.
|
| tl;dr if you have a use case where it's a significant
| difference you already know that.
| closewith wrote:
| I love the drive towards lighter and thinner laptops. Long may
| it last.
| Mo3 wrote:
| So, on the topic of sturdy.... I have the Macbook Air M1,
| bought it pretty much directly after it came out, and it is
| sturdy as _shit_.
|
| Just to iterate on the kind of abuse mine has already endured -
| without even the slightest dent or crack:
|
| 1) I put the Macbook on a chair and, without thinking, put a
| blanket over it while cleaning, causing my girlfriend to sit on
| it with her full weight for over 2 hours
|
| 2) I have dropped the laptop two times while carrying it
|
| 3) The laptop has fallen off my desk also two times because of
| the lack of Magsafe
|
| 4) The laptop was, in its silicone case, in the passenger seat
| in a 25-30mph car crash, got shot full force against the middle
| console
|
| Not a single dent. Just some scratches on one edge from the car
| crash.
| shpongled wrote:
| I've also dropped mine several times (it did get a _minor_
| chip), beat it up a bit (despite trying to be careful), and
| even spilled water on it... liquid got behind a good 25% of
| the screen and I thought I would have to just suck it up and
| repair it, but it just evaporated /resolved itself after a
| couple of weeks.
|
| Pleasantly surprised so far - knock on wood.
| Mo3 wrote:
| Yup, forgot about that. I also spilled a glass of water
| over the keyboard, although not behind the screen like you.
| Evaporated after a while by itself... very, very happy with
| this laptop.
| conductr wrote:
| I've had my M2 MBA for a few weeks now and it just feels
| flimsy. I am not surprised this is happening at all. I used the
| MBA'2013 for all these years and never once did I think it was
| heavy/thick. The aluminum shell it was in felt solid, this one
| feels like it's as thick as a coke can.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| I just got mine, but I disagree about feeling flimsy. The
| metal doesn't feel as thick as a MBP but I don't think I
| could bend it while it's closed.
|
| I recommend taking a trip to best buy and feeling around the
| windows models on display to inspire more confidence in your
| new MBA :)
| conductr wrote:
| So slightly better than garbage is your barometer for
| quality?
|
| I can easily contort/bend the frame with my hand if I
| wanted to. I'd have no confidence in this thing actually
| being on the go (in and out of bags). Even just a fall from
| the couch could RIP this thing is how it feels anyways. I
| could be wrong of course. But, I do feel that this vs
| quality is at odds and this one has stepped into the other
| end. I hope I'm wrong of course as I have never had to deal
| with getting an Apple product repaired and the whole idea
| of it is foreign to me (again, 2013 is my last purchase
| other than phones and since then I read about all the
| issues with keyboards, etc and it seems like they just
| don't give a damn anymore).
| amelius wrote:
| > A customer waiting to buy a decent laptop that is sturdy and
| comfortable to type on.
|
| Dear Apple, your keyboard looks like an almost perfect
| arrangement of squares. The only problem is that it's not
| ergonomic. Humans prefer keys that are not flat, but slightly
| concave, for a more organic feel (for example). Style over
| function/ergonomics is not going to win me over.
| z9znz wrote:
| This is obviously a serious issue, perhaps with manufacturing or
| a batch or two in the supply chain.
|
| Thankfully my M1 Air has been fine (aside from one fully dead
| pixel from day one), and it has traveled around the world with
| me.
|
| Apple should take responsibility for this, but for this current
| risk and possible owner-fault risks, I do find AppleCare+ worth
| it. There's almost no repair that can be done which would cost
| less than the plus warranty costs, so it's a no-brainer as far as
| I'm concerned.
| alliao wrote:
| I'm such a fanboy for Panasonic Let's Note, look it up I don't
| mind it if Apple made one for slightly heavier duty
| scrlk wrote:
| Glad to see other Let's Note fans out there!
|
| I'm a big fan of the SV Let's Note line - they are the last of
| the "no compromises" style of ultraportables.
|
| > 12.1" 16:10 1920x1200 display
|
| > 1.1 kg
|
| > Blu-ray drive
|
| > WLAN support
|
| > Thunderbolt (USB-C), USB-A, Ethernet and VGA
|
| > Removable battery
|
| > Hardware wireless switch
|
| > Activity/status LEDs
|
| Downsides: odd circular trackpad, Japan only, extremely
| expensive.
|
| Last time Apple made anything like this was the 12" PowerBook
| G4.
| scottydelta wrote:
| Apple has always tried to blame customers whenever they can.
|
| I remember when my MacBook pro 2015 started glitching and Apple
| voided the warranty by saying there was liquid spillage/fluid
| damage.
|
| So apparently macbooks have these small stickers inside them
| which change color upon contact with liquids to help detect
| liquid damage but the issue with those stickers are that they
| also change color if you live in a humid area.
|
| They made me pay for that repair even though the customer support
| guy at the store agreed that the color could change because of
| humidity but it was company policy to charge for those repairs.
| [deleted]
| wnevets wrote:
| > Apple has always tried to blame customers whenever they can.
|
| Jobs on iPhone 4 antenna: "avoid holding it in this way"
| r00fus wrote:
| I know there was a class action in late 00s for that where I
| was compensated because I had a similar interaction with an
| Apple Store genius. I was of the understanding they changed
| their "liquid damage" policy due to that lawsuit.
| eecc wrote:
| Heh, the punk at the Amsterdam Apple Store had the audacity to
| guilt trip me for a complaint I had within the mandatory EU
| warranty.
|
| According to him, I had exposed an iPhone to excessive humidity
| despite the sensing sticker remaining white. His reasoning was
| that if the connector was growing copper corrosion it must have
| been humidity and therefore my fault (not a bad batch of
| connectors.)
|
| I chuckled and asked him how could that happen if I always keep
| the thing in my pocket and he said "well that's a humid
| environment and the phone is not designed for that."
|
| The fact that he also called a security guy before lecturing me
| about my warranty expiry was a clear indication of the sort of
| narrative and treatment I'd receive if I insisted, so I walked.
| Other times I was given red-carpet treatment and expensive
| replacements without a peep.
|
| I guess it really depends on whether Cupertino acknowledges the
| defect, until then Genius KPIs must include how many customers
| they successfully subdue and kick out.
|
| SMH... but I guess you get assholes everywhere
| enqk wrote:
| I've witnessed an interaction like this in the main Apple
| store in Berlin, where a woman came (with a friend) because
| she had an issue with having forgotten her password and
| wanting to get her photos back, which wasn't possible. The
| security guard was extremely fast to show up behind her back
| as soon as despair could be heard in her voice.
|
| That gave me a very different image of Apple all of sudden..
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| >I chuckled and asked him how could that happen if I always
| keep the thing in my pocket and he said "well that's a humid
| environment and the phone is not designed for that."
|
| Lol.
| amelius wrote:
| Reminiscent of "you're holding it wrong".
| mnd999 wrote:
| Yep, it took them a very long time to admit that the GPU
| problems on my Core 2 Duo were a design problem.
| mr_toad wrote:
| Condensation can damage electrical equipment quite easily.
| Bring a cold metal laptop into a humid environment at your own
| risk.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| Several years ago I brought my Macbook Air to an Apple store to
| get the battery replaced under warranty. The computer worked
| fine otherwise, it needed a new battery.
|
| The 'genius' came back with my laptop after a few minutes
| saying it had water damage and trying to pitch me on a new
| laptop. After I refused and started insisting that the battery
| was under warranty he eventually relented and acted like he was
| doing me a favor to give me the new battery I was entitled to.
| Then when he finally came back with my newly batteried laptop,
| he mentioned my android smartphone and started trying to sell
| me an iphone. I'm never buying a computer from Apple again, it
| was a terrible experience.
|
| Assuming he wasn't lying about the water indicators being
| tripped (he may well have been, for all I know), the only way I
| can think that would have happened is from the humidity in the
| air. I never dropped any drink on the laptop, never used it in
| the bathtub or anything like that. I don't believe it was ever
| in contact with liquid water at all, only water vapor.
| ghaff wrote:
| On the other hand, there were some screen issues on 2015
| MacBook Pro laptops that I ended up experiencing. I
| inadvertently found out that they had extended the warranty
| well outside the usual period and fixed it for free. The only
| comment from the "genius" was it was one of the more
| interesting patterns he'd seen.
|
| Apple's certainly far from perfect but I've been pretty happy
| with their customer service.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| He was being helpful by directing you towards an iPhone. They
| want you to have the best UX.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| That's a strange experience because I thought Apple Store
| employees weren't paid on commission.
| scottydelta wrote:
| They are not but they are encouraged to up sell.
|
| They tried to sell me a new MacBook by suggesting that I
| trade this one in to get a small credit. I would rather use
| that macbook as a paper weight than to give it back to
| Apple so that they can sell it to some poor guy.
| wolpoli wrote:
| I suspect there are some differences between regions. The
| staffs in the Apple Store in Macau are more aggressive
| than the staffs in Canada, in my experience.
| scottydelta wrote:
| It was the same case with my MacBook. No water damage but the
| liquid damage indicator had tripped somehow. I was forced to
| pay for repairs.
| wizofaus wrote:
| A warranty that can be voided just because some little sticker
| a user can't access indicates moisture detection doesn't even
| sound like it should be legal. If you've done something
| obviously stupid like drop your monitor in the bath then you're
| hardly going to need such a sticker to detect "unreasonable
| use". It seems pretty reasonable to expect consumer goods to
| tolerate small amounts of moisture. In fact a monitor I just
| bought recently got water on it due to some dripping house
| plants above it. It was fine. So far anyway!
| eastbound wrote:
| Most electronics including Apple mention that they're rated
| for 35degC while working and 40degC while off.
|
| After a single year, most of Apple warranties void out.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| You use your laptop outside a lot?
| notsapiensatall wrote:
| Of course, portability is the point of a laptop. Absent
| precipitation, I'd rather use one in a park than indoors.
| LtWorf wrote:
| So if you live in a place where it will reach 41deg in the
| summer, you won't have warranty! Neat!
|
| Also those seem very cool temperatures given how apple
| computers love to overheat.
| LtWorf wrote:
| Apple seem to love to claim liquid damage
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2r-g8EaTfY
|
| He has more videos about it.
|
| Apparently they trigger very easily with humidity.
| amelius wrote:
| Why aren't these things waterproof anyway?
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Those liquid damage indicators might need to be made illegal
| - water damage that would cause the machine to fail is
| readily visible without any stickers, and if it isn't visible
| then the machine is likely to work just fine.
| ajb wrote:
| Maybe this is an urban legend, but:
|
| Sinclair Research made early home computers, well known in the
| UK, not so much elsewhere. These were tricky to set up, and
| often returned as broken. To cut their support costs,
| supposedly Sinclair, on first receipt of a 'broken' computer
| would simply add a sticker and send it back, 'repaired'. Often
| the customer would get it working on this second attempt. Only
| when a computer was sent in with this sticker already applied,
| would they actually investigate to see if anything was wrong
| with it.
| alliao wrote:
| if 80% of cases were due to improper connection or EBKAC then
| this would actually be quite an elegant solution......
| linker3000 wrote:
| Back in the days of the Toshiba laptops with the orange
| plasma screens (T3100 and T3200), a small batch had out of
| spec panels that were thicker than the right ones. These
| panels were under more tension in the bezel and had a
| tendency to shatter.
|
| I worked for a Toshiba dealer/repair centre and the first we
| knew about the problem was when a Tosh came back with a
| screen that looked like it had taken a bullet. The owner
| swore that the screen just went 'bang'. The crazy thing was
| that it still worked!
|
| We checked with Toshiba and they basically said 'Yep, replace
| it' and so it began.
|
| We didn't see a lot of these screens, but it was a notable
| problem.
| briane80 wrote:
| Also there was a famous media interview by clive sinclair
| telling customers they could fix an issue with the a ram pack
| upgrade falling off with the use of blu tac
| ValentineC wrote:
| > _Apple has always tried to blame customers whenever they
| can._
|
| +1 to this.
|
| Apple has never admitted fault for their shoddy MagSafe 2
| charger (and older Lightning) cable insulation, many of which
| have ended up disintegrating and spewing blue stuff all over my
| furniture.
|
| I've had multiple cables flake over the years, and every time I
| bring one of the chargers to a Genius bar (so far: Australia,
| Japan, and Singapore), they've always fallen back to "policy"
| and blamed it on me for not taking care of it properly.
| ghaff wrote:
| I had a MagSafe charger that the cable basically
| disintegrated on me and no amount of epoxy and electrical
| tape would keep it together.. Not good. On the other hand a
| new charger is a lot cheaper than having to replace the
| computer.
| HideousKojima wrote:
| Apple doesn't want to do proper strain relief on their cables
| because it's ugly and unaesthetic. Apple has basically always
| prioritized form over function.
| geoffeg wrote:
| Apple wasn't _always_ like that, just the current iteration
| of Apple. Back in the 80s and 90s Apple was more focused on
| longevity and building really great user interfaces than
| purity of design. Their Human Interface Guidelines were
| some of the best in the industry and they spent a lot of
| time and money on human factors research.
| juve1996 wrote:
| and apple almost went bankrupt after that.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| Someone here pointed out to me, when I made a similar
| comment, the hockey puck mouse.
|
| I think the Apple III is also an example of their
| susceptibility to letting aesthetics or marketing dictate
| over function
| jeromegv wrote:
| I feel people often have pink glasses over the old period
| of Apple. 90s was tons of Mac product lines competing
| with each other. No shortage of quality problem on those
| hardware. A nice operating system but was falling behind
| in many modern OS concepts (while trying to build a new
| OS from scratch and failing).
|
| I used apple all my life (including the 90s) and it was
| definitely not the best period of apple.
| oblib wrote:
| Yeah, I burned through a few new Macs in late 90s early
| 2000s. They all were obsoleted pretty fast. I have an old
| Silver Door Mac G4 that was really just crap new out of
| the box.
|
| But, the Late `09 Mac Mini I bought new has been as solid
| as one could ever hope for. I just ordered a refurbished
| late `14 Mac Mini from OWC to replace it and I expect it
| should last a few years too.
|
| I mostly just write code for a web app I sell so I don't
| need the latest or most powerful Mac and the `14 model
| will run the current Mac OS and the latest versions of
| the software I use most, mainly BBEdit and web browsers.
|
| I know I'd be pretty disappointed if I'd bought a Macbook
| M1 and that happened to me.
| pmontra wrote:
| To be fair, every computer got obsoleted fast on those
| years. The Moore law was strong back then.
| freemint wrote:
| 80s Apple computer were not speced for a long, useful
| life.
| geoffeg wrote:
| I don't mean the specs but the quality of the hardware
| design itself.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| 80s apple computers were highly upgradeable. Multiple
| expansion slots and 3rd party options.
|
| It was a completely different ecosystem, but it was when
| Woz was making design decisions on the apple II
| samatman wrote:
| I consider M[Int] Pro line as a solid return to form, and
| I bring that up here because of the braided MagSafe cable
| which comes with it.
|
| I'm hard on cables, and I have an instinct for what's
| going to crap out on me. I expect this cable to last.
| That thing where they can afford to make a decent cable,
| know how, and just... wont? This cable isn't one of
| those.
|
| It will, however, show grime. They haven't let go of
| Apple White Which Reveals If You're a Slob yet, and I'm
| dubious they ever will.
|
| Edit: have to take that last paragraph back, they sell
| them in black. I did figure on having two...
| hiram112 wrote:
| > It will, however, show grime. They haven't let go of
| Apple White Which Reveals If You're a Slob yet, and I'm
| dubious they ever will.
|
| Haha, we had an all-hands meeting in-person for the first
| time since Covid last week. There were about 15 of us
| sitting around a huge conference table. Many white
| Macbook chargers and their cables sprawled across the
| table.
|
| I did get very self conscious when I realized all the
| rest were pristine white - as if they had just unwrapped
| them for the first time - while mine was pit-stain yellow
| with the connector frayed and blue. I had never noticed
| how gross it was until seeing it right next to the newer,
| clean chargers.
|
| I blamed it on the cat - he sits on the cord when it's
| lying on the bed. I'm not sure they were buying it,
| though.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| Apple offered upgrades from the IIe to IIGS. It was an
| in-store motherboard and lower case swap
| seiferteric wrote:
| My wife had a MBP with support plan years ago. The track pad
| started failing and it wouldn't always click even after you
| felt it depress and was slowly getting worse and worse. I took
| it in and the guy basally said there was no problem and I was
| just not pressing hard enough or something... It was very
| noticeable after using it for a while... Anyway I ended up
| ordering a new track pad online and replaced it myself and of
| course it fixed the issue. Still bothers me today.
| scottydelta wrote:
| It's impossible to do self repairs on macbooks these days.
|
| Apple intentionally solders all the components together to
| prevent self repair. Even the battery is soldered to the
| system.
|
| https://9to5mac.com/2019/07/12/2019-13-macbook-pro-teardown/
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Technical quibble here. The batteries are glued to the
| case, not soldered to anything. The power cables still use
| connectors and can be easily popped off.
| foldr wrote:
| They solder components to save space and increase the
| reliability and power efficiency of the connections. Apple
| doesn't care about self repair, but they aren't using
| solder instead of connectors as part of a scheme to
| actively thwart it.
| scottydelta wrote:
| Apple is literally known for their anti-right-to-repair
| stance.
|
| There is a youtuber named Louis Rossman(1.7 million
| followers) fighting Apple on this since more than a
| decade.
|
| Here is his channel:
| https://youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup
| prvit wrote:
| Rossman isn't exactly trustworthy. Remember this?
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw3-j_RaX74
| scottydelta wrote:
| Shows the video as private. I cannot watch it.
| prvit wrote:
| Rossmann went on a drunken, paranoid rant about how the
| macbook webcam has secret hardware to spy on him. He took
| the video down after widespread ridicule.
|
| Original video is mirrored on archive.org https://archive
| .org/details/Kat.crlouis.rossmann.backup/what...
|
| Not sure if that link goes straight to the right video.
| It's the last video of the playlist, titled "what's up
| with that 4 gb man"
| foldr wrote:
| You're conflating two separate issues:
|
| (i) Is Apple anti right to repair?
|
| (ii) Does Apple solder certain components primarily
| because it makes repair more difficult?
|
| Even if the answer to (i) is yes, the answer to (ii) can
| be no.
|
| Most unpluggable components in most laptops are never
| intentionally unplugged over the lifetime of the device.
| Connectors take up space, can come unplugged
| accidentally, and degrade signal quality. Those are the
| reasons for soldering components in a modern laptop.
| stingrae wrote:
| I would argue that they aren't anti right-to-repair. They
| are against poor quality repairs.
|
| The issue is if you let individuals and 3rd party stores
| do repairs, there is no way to validate that they are
| doing it in a reliable/quality fashion. This is
| especially problematic when phones are getting more and
| more resilient to various environments (Like the addition
| of IP68)
|
| When a customer has a repair done poorly and issues come
| up, they come to Apple for support.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| At this point I'm thinking the 2012 I own could be the last
| laptop I bother buying. Its performant enough for being a
| day to day computer with an ssd and 16gb ram, and these
| days if I need more horsepower for one job I'm better off
| using a server. Plus the parts are so cheap on ebay and you
| can do most repairs with a phillips head screwdriver.
| amelius wrote:
| > Apple intentionally solders all the components together
| to prevent self repair.
|
| As much as I like to bash Apple, it could also be that they
| soldered/glued everything to miniaturize the product
| further, for example.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| You can use heater and solvent to deal with glue. It's not
| impossible. Not DYI-friendly - for sure.
| cmatthias wrote:
| > DYI
|
| Do Yourself It?
| sudosysgen wrote:
| The solvent has a propensity of getting into other
| components and ruining them, esp. the trackpad.
| legitster wrote:
| Meanwhile, my Thinkpad has built-in drainage holes.
| johnbellone wrote:
| Those stickers are in nearly all of their devices.
| curious_cat_163 wrote:
| I have had mine crash on me multiple times now.
|
| Last it happened was today, in the middle of a Safari browsing
| session.
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| > it is frustrating that apple doesn't believe its costumers.
|
| What's notable here is there is 49 pages of seemingly mostly "me
| too". It should give Apple at the very least pause for
| reevaluation of their stance. One guy saying "I didn't do it man"
| is not evidence, but a clearly non coordinated global trend of
| people claiming the same thing? Pretty compelling.
| cycomanic wrote:
| Why would it? Seriously a large proportion even of the users
| bitten by this will still run to buy the next shiny apple
| device they release and then there is the other part of the
| users who are not affected and will blame the affected users
| for doing something wrong, because apple can't be in the wrong.
| I never understood the personal attachment and identification
| that some brands elicit it people (but credit to Apple to
| achieving this, and I don't mean this ironically. They must be
| doing something right to gather such a following).
| noizejoy wrote:
| Benn Jordan just made a nice video explaining how brand
| loyalty is based on a deeply human trait:
|
| https://youtu.be/HqMMRh3VRT8
| [deleted]
| pattle wrote:
| I think having a strong personal attachment to a brand is
| actually pretty normal. If you spend a large chunk of your
| time using a companies products and those products make your
| easier/better it's understandable.
| jamwil wrote:
| I don't know that its what Apple does right but that the
| broader PC market continues to shoot itself in the foot.
| Little things like pre-installed bloatware and the inability
| to figure out smooth trackpad scrolling (still!) keep me
| firmly on Apple devices. And more recently, the M1 platform
| is remarkable, so I tip my hat to them for that and doing the
| basic stuff right (mostly--there have been blemishes
| obviously).
| 8ytecoder wrote:
| It's also because a good chunk of people also lie to get
| something fixed under warranty. Didn't the other weak the
| article that rose to the front page talk in detail about the
| various frauds?
|
| I wish Apple wasn't like this and spent time investigating
| each defect accurately to identify and issue "recalls". They
| sure have the money to do it. But like every other
| capitalistic company - including the ones that put a 1 ton
| missile on the road - they fix something when they have a
| financial incentive to do it. Class action lawsuits are a
| good incentive. Loss of goodwill is a hard to quantify but
| important one as well. And I'm sure there's a suit somewhere
| in Apple spaceship doing these calculations.
| tomxor wrote:
| > credit to Apple to achieving this, and I don't mean this
| ironically. They must be doing something right to gather such
| a following
|
| Credit in a disgusting kind of way yes. A skill you can only
| admire abstractly.
|
| This kind of thing has been going on for well over a decade
| now, the reality distortion field that Jobs left behind is
| very real... It's China level of denialism, pretty sure
| Apple's internal media control slogan is "never admit fault,
| deny everything, at all cost" - even big fat class action
| cost, because that's cheaper than breaking the delusion of
| the pretty, perfect device with a massive markup.
|
| Once you've been burned once and they disrespect your
| intelligence you abandon them if you have any sense... but to
| be fair to others, some people become entrenched in the
| ecosystem and effectively have lockin, many of those poor
| souls do what any human does to protect their sanity in an
| impossible scenario, they lie to themselves to justify the
| economic and emotional cost to them - which ironically helps
| sustain the delusion for everyone else. Although maybe the
| single benefit of the big apps turning everything into a
| cloud subscription is that it reduces this somewhat.
|
| But everyone has limits, I'm convinced there is a critical
| mass Apple will disenchant where the illusion will finally be
| broken for everyone and they burn their image. Since the
| company is well and truly into the milking stage I'm sure
| this will happen sooner than later - Investors have limited
| life spans even if companies do not.
| BitwiseFool wrote:
| Folks like you and I can interpret it this way, but the
| accountants and engineers at Apple would have to provide much
| more rigorous evidence to the high level executives that would
| need to sign off on some remediation program, recall, or
| redesign. Granted, at a lower level it could be used as
| justification to look into more rigorous/empirical
| investigation.
| londons_explore wrote:
| There is almost certainly a team at Apple with a very keen eye
| on this - many teams in fact - everyone from PR ready to do
| damage control to manufacturing trying to not make it happen
| anymore to engineering trying to come up with a fix or
| workaround to stop more screens in already sold products
| breaking.
|
| But none of those teams are allowed to make any noise
| externally till legal has fully understood the issue and
| decided what damage 'admitting' to the fault might cause in any
| potential future lawsuit. That's why it appears Apple isn't
| paying attention.
| trophycase wrote:
| They likely know and don't care. My old macbook pro updated to
| the latest OS and it completely bricked the machine. Every time
| I'd try to watch a video the thing would overheat. Reverted the
| OS and the issue was completely fixed.
|
| Bought a new iphone recently and the camera simply can't focus
| at short range.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| You only hear about it because it's Apple and they have like 6
| SKUs of products that they sell millions of.
|
| When the batteries bulge or screens fail on some random Dell
| made by a subcontractor in Vietnam, nobody cares as they have
| like 80 models of laptop for every market segment.
|
| The bullshit thing in my mind is that Apple took away the
| ability for store staff to make discretionary calls to bypass
| stuff like this and do what's right for the customer.
| r3012 wrote:
| > The bullshit thing in my mind is that Apple took away the
| ability for store staff to make discretionary calls to bypass
| stuff like this and do what's right for the customer.
|
| It could be that, or retail workers are sick of us and aren't
| making calls in our direction anymore.
|
| https://www.businessinsider.com/retail-workers-leaving-
| quit-...
| Kaze404 wrote:
| Who is "us" here? Abusive customers? I can't fathom someone
| coming into a store being nice as expected and a retail
| over fucking them over just because.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| It absolutely happens, especially with lower class (as in
| "white trash" class, not working class) customers.
|
| Workers fuck with them just because they can.
| jug wrote:
| Yeah these kinds of en masse reports have resulted in an Apple
| response in the past so here's hoping for everyone subject to
| this. They use to be awfully reluctant though. An article in
| mainstream news and sustained pressure should help.
| thedougd wrote:
| I had an M1 Macbook Air screen delaminate for no apparent reason.
| I'm guessing that was the reason, but it looked like a giant
| bubble formed right in the middle of the screen. I'm guessing all
| the edges delaminated? It looked like water damage, but of course
| was never in contact with water.
|
| The screen was replaced for free.
| xyst wrote:
| Owned a 2015-2016 MacBook for college. It shit the bed 2-3 years
| later. The cost of replacing the motherboard vs buying a brand
| new one was nearly identical. Ended up just splurging for a 2017
| MBP.
|
| Besides the butterfly keyboard going to shit (fortunately,
| replaced under warranty) 2 years ago. It has worked wonderfully
| for me so far.
| amelius wrote:
| Perhaps the object/impurity that caused the contact point crack
| was behind the screen, not in front of it.
| kelsolaar wrote:
| Any clue of what is causing that? Is it the aluminium chassis
| expanding as a function of temperature and causing stress on the
| glass?
| djmips wrote:
| Maybe in a fraction of the cases but from reading the thread,
| I, pessimistically estimate that most of the problems are user
| induced or a different issue.
| AmVess wrote:
| I'd have to agree. I don't know how many companies supply
| Apple with MBA M1 screens, but I've had mine since they came
| out. Dragged it all over the states and still no crack.
|
| I always open it in the middle, and I don't wrench it open.
| For some reason, some people don't understand that thin and
| light doesn't mean indestructible.
| LtWorf wrote:
| Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean that
| other people are necessarily liars.
| samatman wrote:
| Mostly likely culprit, if this is a real problem, is a poorly-
| annealed batch of screen glass. If the glass is under internal
| tension, it's only a matter of time before cracks show.
| Conversely, screen glass is ordinarily pretty hard to damage
| and screens are designed to handle any expansion in their frame
| as a matter of course.
|
| At this point, there's no way to tell if this is an actual
| issue, or if it's just the enormous customer base of Apple
| amplifying owners who damaged their screen and would like Apple
| to replace it for free.
|
| I'm sympathetic after owning one of the cursed butterfly decks,
| but I'm pretty wait-and-see about it. I'm not nervous about my
| 16" M1 Pro, which is the most tank-like laptop Apple has made
| since the days of removable batteries and built-in DVD-R.
| bogwog wrote:
| > or if it's just the enormous customer base of Apple
| amplifying owners who damaged their screen and would like
| Apple to replace it for free.
|
| Apple has had an enormous customer base for decades, they've
| had a support forum for probably as long, and people have
| been wanting free repairs for their broken idevices since
| forever.
|
| And while I'm no expert on the history of Apple's support
| forums, I think it's safe to assume that a 49-page forum
| thread about an issue like this isn't a common occurrence.
| (maybe the butterfly keyboards got one like that)
|
| Plus Apple is not the only manufacturer with a support forum
| and a large customer base, and I don't think I've ever heard
| of a mass concentrated effort to get free repairs by spamming
| a support forum.
| nbzso wrote:
| First rule of a longtime Apple user: Never be an early adopter.
| Second rule of a longtime Apple user: Always use AppleCare+.
| Third rule of a longtime Apple user: When you have a problem with
| your beloved Apple hardware, always have a pile of cash on you,
| just in case.
| jmull wrote:
| Bad advice, IME.
|
| First Intel Mac, first iPhone, first Apple Watch... for that
| matter, second Mac ever, and, however you want to rank it, an
| Apple ][.
|
| I don't regret any of them (my mother paid for the early Apple
| and Mac, but I know she didn't regret the either).
| calsy wrote:
| AppleCare+, pay even more for 'Apple Insurance' so you can
| repair the expensive defective product sold to you already
| covered by warranty and consumer law.
|
| Have extra money available to pay for repairs that can only be
| carried out by Apple for the laptop you paid a premium for
| believing it was reliable.
|
| Forfeit your money and do not question Apple's role in selling
| you a defective product. Besides, we can't expect Apple to
| cover the costs of repair for the defective products they sell,
| thats just asking too much. They aren't made of money. But you
| are..
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| if only there was some other approach!
| least wrote:
| I'd imagine most people deliberately using Apple products
| have made considerations for other options. Unfortunately
| there is no panacea like you seem to be alluding to, just a
| different set of tradeoffs.
| amelius wrote:
| There is. If you find a defect, just hold a heat-gun near
| your screen for a while. Apple will not be able to explain
| the cause of the resulting damage. You will get your money
| back, as you should.
| lawgimenez wrote:
| This is worrying, my wife just bought the same exact model a few
| months ago. In my country there is no Apple Store.
| usaphp wrote:
| I've had the same happened to mine because of the camera cover.
| When lid is closed - it rubs against the trackpad edge and a
| little pressure from the top, when it's closed, will cause it to
| crack.
| peppertree wrote:
| Impact at the edge of screen created microscopic crack. Thermal
| change caused the crack to spread. It happens all the time with
| vehicle windshields.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Then why hasn't it happened for other macbooks? The corners of
| my 2012 are noticeably deformed from impacts and the screen is
| fine
| shadowfacts wrote:
| Years ago, the screen of my 2012 rMBP had broken seemingly
| out of nowhere one time after I opened the lid. I knew
| someone who was carrying a couple pieces of paper stapled
| together inside the lid of their 2016-era MBP, and when they
| opened it, the staple had broken the glass. Just because you
| don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Glass
| breaks, it happens.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Hell, the newer iPads flex a bit and we don't have screens
| break constantly.
| monocasa wrote:
| Screen glass breakage is very dependent on the shape and
| vector of the stress. Flexing is generally not that bad,
| nor are light impacts or scrapes on the front, but a
| remarkably tiny pressure on edge will cause a crack.
| kergonath wrote:
| Exactly. The surface treatment of these glasses make
| their faces very resistant to fracture, but the layer in
| the middle inside is much less tough. An impact on the
| side is really bad for this type of glass pane.
| kergonath wrote:
| > Then why hasn't it happened for other macbooks?
|
| It most certainly has, but might not have been publicised. I
| remember some noise about iPhones screens failing in more or
| less exactly the same way ~10 years ago. These things are
| bound to happen regularly, but we don't hear about it. Ion-
| exchange strengthened glass is resistant to microcracks, but
| even so fracture happens.
|
| > The corners of my 2012 are noticeably deformed from impacts
| and the screen is fine
|
| Glass is an interesting material. It can bend and deform in
| the right conditions, and shatter in others. Your experience
| would show that the screen is actually well designed (my 2015
| MBP had also a deformed corner after having fallen open from
| a table; I was actually pleasantly surprised that the hinge
| survived).
| nice2meetu wrote:
| Deformed corner here too! it was sitting precariously on a
| pile of papers on top of a set of plastic drawers on top of
| a standup desk which was half raised (where the printer
| lives, was silly I know). My daughter came in and bumped
| the table and my open MacBook fell directly on the corner
| of the screen. It has a dent there now but no other damage
| peppertree wrote:
| The fracture pattern depends on the direction of impact. It's
| easily verifiable under a microscope. From the thread it
| sounds like Apple did indeed verify them with a microscope.
| However people are not always rational, especially when money
| is involved.
| minxomat wrote:
| The thread has 50 pages and 2000 votes, so I'd guess even
| if that is a factor, it wouldn't account for all of them.
| samatman wrote:
| Maybe. Apple sold 30 million Macs last year. 2000
| complaints would be 0.0067% of those.
| anakaine wrote:
| If you go through and read a few it becomes plain that
| there's a few themes emerging. Clean everything, lid
| closure.
|
| I find it a bit laughable that they can "verify it under a
| microscope". The glass is present under tension, and a weak
| point releasing that tension could very well cause local
| divoting at the origin of the crack as the pressure is
| released towards that point and microsharding occurs.
| thehappypm wrote:
| Is the screen more slammable (for lack of a better word)? My
| HP has these two rubber stoppers that prevent the Screen from
| slamming the keyboard.
| pmontra wrote:
| My HP also has a piece of cloth to put on the keyboard
| before closing the lid. I always suspended by pressing the
| power button and disabled suspend by closing the lid, so it
| is natural for me to use that extra protection.
| no-s wrote:
| > Thermal change caused the crack to spread. It happens all the
| time with vehicle windshields.
|
| This happened to my brother's brand new Tesla. Tiny impact on
| the edge extended all the way across after a week in Tucson.
| Very sad, especially because the service was difficult (had to
| return to SoCal for repair). The next week around Tucson I
| looked for and spotted over a dozen Teslas with similar crack
| extensions.
|
| It's probably safer for it to be flimsy. If it shatters it will
| become chunks and not shards. The Air screen is big enough to
| make killer shards...
| ayberk wrote:
| This is a good place to remind that _never ever_ buy a Tesla.
| I was a huge fanboy and I do love my car, but their customer
| support and service centers are absolutely horrendous.
|
| It's all great when nothing is wrong, but things eventually
| go wrong and you regret ever owning one. - Signed, a Tesla
| Owner who has been dealing with a very minor damage because
| some idiot couldn't take their eyes off of their phone in a
| 25mph zone.
| ProfessorLayton wrote:
| Car windshields are laminated with plastic in the middle,
| precisely to prevent shards, and to not have it completely
| collapse in the event of an impact.
|
| The rest of the windows are tempered glass, also to prevent
| shards.
| jabbany wrote:
| Actually, windshield glass is designed to prefer cracking
| (and holding together) instead of shattering into chunks when
| it breaks like the side windows.
|
| Relevant video about this design: https://youtu.be/aAsUG-
| jbLlM?t=131
|
| Computer screen glass is also usually laminated (though here
| the goal is to fuse the glass very closely to the LCD panel
| so there's no unsightly "air gap")
| cycomanic wrote:
| There used to be a science show on German television that
| always demonstrated interesting engineering science bits at
| prime TV hours (knoffhoff show). They demonstrated
| windscreen security glass by someone jumping on a large
| (2mx2m or more) sheet between two wooden blocks. It looked
| like someone jumping on a springboard. At the end another
| person tapped the side of the glass using a small hammer
| and the glass shattered into tiny little pieces. The
| jumping guy was still on it, but did not get cut because
| all pieces where dull shards.
|
| It really impressed my young self at the time.
| ashildr wrote:
| Saying you are about 50 years old without saying you are
| about 50 years old :-)
| bergenty wrote:
| Wait what? What do you mean return to socal
| nwatson wrote:
| Vehicle likely had to be transported from Tucson, Arizona
| to SoCal == Southern California to a factory or more fully-
| equipped Tesla repair facility.
| kergonath wrote:
| Indeed. That's how glass works.
| Maursault wrote:
| It is possible many or most of the reported screen cracks are
| due entirely to thermal changes. The M1 MacBook displays _are
| made of glass_. Glass is a poor thermal conductor and rapid
| changes in temperature will create stress fractures in the
| glass that will eventually crack. When heated, thin glass
| begins to crack.
|
| Let's say, for argument's sake, the OP has their desk in front
| of a window. At night, temperatures go down, and in the
| morning, sunlight provided enough thermal change fast enough to
| cause a small crack, which expanded with stress. I'm not saying
| that is what happened, just that thermal stress can explain a
| lot.
|
| Voices can already be heard that Apple's product can't even
| handle sunlight. But it isn't sunlight, it is the delta-T over
| delta-t the change in temperature over time. Taking a device in
| thermal equilibrium of an air conditioned environment outside
| into a hot car will crack the glass with no impact event.
| Happened to me. I was holding an iPad in my hands in front of
| me, and _I saw the glass crack_ , and I knew immediately what I
| did wrong. The change in temperature was too extreme and too
| fast.
| londons_explore wrote:
| But it's also possible to design glass which is pretty much
| immune to thermal stress cracking....
|
| Perhaps Apple should have done so, knowing their users might
| expose their laptops to sunlight...
| vorpalhex wrote:
| > Taking a device in thermal equilibrium of an air
| conditioned environment outside into a hot car will crack the
| glass with no impact event.
|
| The $1000+ device should be able to handle going outside
| hammock wrote:
| > It happens all the time with vehicle windshields.
|
| Easy solution for windshields which avoids full replacement is
| to go and have somebody inject epoxy(? some sort of agent) into
| the crack which will prevent it from spreading larger
| _gtly wrote:
| I know someone who put a square of gaffer's tape over their
| Macbook Pro's video camera (in theory to protect their privacy)
| and one day they lifted up the screen and it was cracked. It
| seemed like that little bit of tape might have been the culprit.
| thomas-st wrote:
| My 14" M1 MacBook Pro screen repair cost was $809. Supervisor
| refused the waive the fee. The screen cracked for no apparent
| reason and then completely stopped working.
|
| Some firm already filed a class action complaint, and I submitted
| my details: https://classlawdc.com/2021/08/04/m1-macbook-screen-
| crack-in...
| umvi wrote:
| > My 14" M1 MacBook Pro repair cost was $809
|
| My custom Ryzen 7/RX 570 Linux PC built from parts cost less
| than this, so a repair of this magnitude just boggles my mind.
| At that point just buy yourself a new computer.
| numlock86 wrote:
| What boggles my mind is why you didn't get a computer with a
| Centrino Core 2 Duo with an integrated graphics card.
|
| > Ryzen 7/RX 570
|
| At this point just buy yourself a couple of used computers.
| thomas-st wrote:
| Honestly, if I had broken the screen, this seems like a fair
| cost for a new display like this. Apart from the the cost,
| I'd also like to mention the repair process (via mail at
| their Houston repair facility) was very speedy. I got a quote
| within hours of them receiving the product, and it was
| shipped the next day after I approved. The supervisor
| mentioned that if they ever set up a repair program for this
| issue, they will refund the fee.
|
| Now, if only they could also fix the audio crackling issue
| that me and many other users are experiencing... (https://www
| .reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/s4r1m5/macbook_...)
| xdfgh1112 wrote:
| Wow you praise Apple even after they screwed you! The cult
| of Apple is still going strong!
|
| Edit: parent was made to pay 800 dollars for a screen
| breaking which wasn't his or her fault, but still goes on
| to say "they said they might refund it later" and "the
| repair was quick". The rationalisation is painful to read.
| thomas-st wrote:
| To be clear, it's completely unacceptable they are
| charging for this repair. My intent was to give some
| perspective on how the repair process went overall, I
| needed the device back for work.
|
| While apart from the cracked screen issue the hardware is
| amazing in my opinion, the overall software issues make
| using macOS painful sometimes (processes running at high
| CPU -- now mostly offloaded to the efficiency cores,
| WebKit views having issues loading, anything syncing to
| iCloud sometimes not working, sometimes working on the
| 2nd try, Messages/Apple Mail search only finding some of
| the messages, audio crackling issues with wired
| headphones/AirPods/built-in speaker, etc.)
| josephcsible wrote:
| > if I had broken the screen
|
| But the whole point is that it's Apple's fault that these
| screens are breaking, not the users'.
| TheDong wrote:
| People just don't understand how good desktops are, right?
|
| On my flight yesterday, when I pulled out my full tower Ryzen
| with 2x 3090 GPUs, I got told that the power outlet on the
| plane seat shouldn't be used for my 1200W power supply.
|
| And yet, the same flight attendant said nothing to the
| macbook user a few rows over who was clearly plugged in.
| Frankly, it's appalling how few people understand that a
| cheaper desktop is comparable to a laptop.
| depr wrote:
| Next time bring a portable battery.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| You should have shown her the daisy chain of 5v lithium
| batteries you used to power it. That really puts the
| stewardess in bitch-mode
| sseagull wrote:
| I mean, unless you are an extreme outlier, you spend more
| time on the ground than on an airplane. Why would you
| optimize for working on an airplane over your typical
| workday?
|
| For me personally, 99.9% of my work is done at my desk (1),
| so why not have a more powerful, upgradeable, repairable
| computer to work with?
|
| (1) I'm not hip enough to work from coffee shops
| jrockway wrote:
| I agree with you. When I travel I just take a tablet for
| some reading on the flight and maybe some light HN
| reading before bed. To do actual work, I kind of like my
| split keyboard, mouse, and 32 CPUs. I don't bother trying
| to get a ton of work done on the road; if I need to talk
| to someone in another state or country for work, we have
| video conferences now.
|
| It's amazing how much shit you get on HN of all places
| for sitting at your desk programming.
| intrasight wrote:
| I too don't get this transition to working on laptops.
| What a crappy form factor. I do have two of them - and
| they get used about 2 hours per month on average.
| mikeryan wrote:
| I actually understand the subjective differences for
| people to choose a desktop over a laptop.
|
| But I really don't get your point about form factor.
| Using, external monitors and adding a keyboard and mouse
| to a laptop is a non-issue.
| bsuvc wrote:
| I mostly work outside in an Adirondack chair, so for me,
| it does make sense to optimize for mobility.
|
| I don't have a Mac though... Dell XPS 13 running Ubuntu
| works great for me. Never had an issue with the three
| I've had over the years.
| pmontra wrote:
| My work is done almost 100% at a desk, in different rooms
| of my home depending on the season (some get too cold or
| too hot) or on a whim. A desktop won't do. And sometimes
| I really take my laptop to somewhere else.
| sseagull wrote:
| Different strokes for different folks and all, but it's
| hard for me to imagine this. I have 3 large monitors, so
| even if I had a laptop I would want to move those around
| as well.
|
| After working with large monitors, I don't know how
| anyone gets serious work done on a laptop screen.
|
| I do have a laptop, but it is relatively inexpensive and
| used mostly as a thin client to my desktop (as others
| have mentioned).
|
| Edit: I will also add, I like having a dedicated space
| for work. This prevents work from creeping into my life
| everywhere in my house. I can't be on the couch, watching
| a movie, and have the urge to work - I'm not in my work
| space!
| smoldesu wrote:
| Yeah. Only thing I'll add is that I use my laptop as a
| thin-client, so I don't ever find myself pining for more
| power. Works great for watching YouTube, editing text and
| SSHing into my desktop via Tailscale when I want some
| more power. Using my Macbook in the same way is just more
| of a hassle, but that's probably because I don't use
| iCloud/the App Store...
| z9znz wrote:
| > extreme outlier
|
| Contrary to popular myth, not all of us live and work in
| a basement. Myself and many people I know, my non-
| technical girlfriend included, use our laptops all around
| the country and in multiple other countries.
|
| I do agree about upgradeable and repairable, which is why
| the Framework laptop is getting pretty attractive. But
| there's still nothing that compares in performance and
| portability to my M1 Air.
| runjake wrote:
| Right, that's why they said "outlier". Most people aren't
| going all around the country and multiple other
| countries. Most people sit at home on a computer, and sit
| at work on another computer.
|
| Like you, I am also an outlier, using my MacbBok all over
| Hades.
| threeseed wrote:
| > Most people sit at home on a computer, and sit at work
| on another computer
|
| a) You don't know what most people do.
|
| b) I would add that those of us that are in a hybrid mode
| e.g. working equally from home and work are given laptops
| specifically because we are expected to use the same
| computer in both environments.
| [deleted]
| z9znz wrote:
| That also suggests that modern tech workers who have a
| hybrid work arrangement are outliers. That's getting to
| be a pretty large group.
|
| Heck, even before COVID, my previous company only gave
| out laptops. Those things would get moved all around the
| office - from desk to desk, to multiple conference and
| meeting rooms, home, etc. This has been the norm for at
| least 5 years in my experience.
| threeseed wrote:
| > For me personally, 99.9% of my work is done at my desk
|
| And for many of us their computer is not used exclusively
| at a desk.
|
| It's also used at work, on a couch, on a plane, in bed
| etc.
| fzfaa wrote:
| jabbany wrote:
| Actually it really isn't.
|
| The more expensive something is the higher the ongoing costs
| to maintain it. It's the same case with cars where more
| expensive ones are also more costly to maintain and fix.
|
| When people buy a more luxury item, it's because there is
| something about the item that they value where no cheaper
| equivalent exists. MacBooks certainly have several such
| features: quality of display, ecosystem integration, form
| factor, battery life, speakers, aesthetics... These things
| might not be the same things you value, but for those who
| care it's just as important. This is also why some people buy
| luxury cars and others just get the cheapest whatever that
| gets them from A to B.
|
| FWIW, I run an HP Ryzen laptop that cost me just $350. But I
| do so because the 2h battery, non-HDR (and probably not even
| 100% sRGB) 1080p screen, lackluster speaker, and "borderline
| serviceable" trackpad don't bother me at all. I would not buy
| a MacBook as it offers no features I care about at a
| significantly higher price, but I respect people who do buy
| MacBooks because they fit their needs.
| deebosong wrote:
| That's how I feel about bikes. I like that enthusiasts get
| the really nice fancypants stuff. But if I'm gonna be doing
| my own maintenance, and riding for durability along with
| functionality, then the lower end stuff ends up being more
| for me than the latest & greatest.
| jabbany wrote:
| Yeah, I have a friend who has a nice fancy carbon fibre
| bike meanwhile I just have a random no-name brand because
| it does everything I need it to do for commuting and I
| don't care that it weighs several kilograms more...
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| There's lots of things that are more expensive and last
| longer with no maintenance. There was an entire thread
| yesterday about how stuff doesn't last as long and
| sometimes if you can afford it, you should pay 7x for a
| Vitamix or KitchenAid.
|
| I'm not sure this compares to luxury cars, since MacBooks
| more than ever are more like appliances. So it's arguable
| that paying more should get you a more durable product.
|
| I mean there's loads of people who have pre-shitty keyboard
| MacBooks that have lasted years. I have a great 2012 MBA
| that still works great and I paid a premium for it then.
| I'd be happy to pay a premium again for a similarly long
| lasting computer. You're also paying the apple premium so
| that if something goes wrong, they fix it with little fuss.
| Something I have also used over the years.
| jabbany wrote:
| Not saying more expensive things don't last longer, just
| that usually it is not proportional to the price
| difference (and that's fine).
|
| If you really want to compare, if I got a similar spec-ed
| MacBook to what I need, I'd have to spend easily $4k+.
| That means I can outright write off my current cheapish
| laptop 10+ times over the entire lifetime of an
| equivalent Macbook and I'd still be in the green.
|
| Premium products are premium because you need them to do
| something that no other device can. Durability _could_ be
| a premium selling point for some stuff (tools for
| example), but for electronics and cars it almost never
| is. OTOH, I'd happily concede if someone wants to spend
| $3k+ just to get the better monitor or better battery
| life on the Macbook.
| ReadTheLicense wrote:
| The cheapest comparable desktop display costs $1500 (27
| inch)...
| wtallis wrote:
| Is a desktop whose price doesn't include _any_ display really
| the best comparison you could come up with for a discussion
| of laptop display repairs?
| brewdad wrote:
| The beauty of the desktop is that you can buy a display
| that fits your budget and needs. A desktop monitor that's
| equal to a typical 1080 laptop display can be had for $150.
| If you need something better, you can spend more but very
| few people will need to spend more than $500.
|
| If it breaks, you plug in a new one at 1/3 to 1/2 the cost
| of the laptop repair with the only downtime being how long
| it takes to drive to the store.
| testing7787 wrote:
| biohacker85 wrote:
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| May I ask how long the battery lasts on your your Ryzen 7/RX
| 570 Linux PC?
| Krasnol wrote:
| A CMOS battery lasts probably something around 5 years.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Does it scale down your graphics and sound to look like
| Tiger handheld LCD games when you're gaming on the CMOS
| battery?
| jxy wrote:
| You can last a "full day" on AAA batteries. A manageable
| configuration is likely double-suitcase with copper link,
| each contains 10000 Alkaline AAA batteries.
| threeseed wrote:
| I just had my 14" M1 MacBook Pro screen crack a few days ago
| and it was replaced for free.
|
| Be curious about your circumstances whether it was repaired at
| an Apple Store and when this happened.
|
| Perhaps there is a policy that isn't being disseminated around
| properly.
| bozhark wrote:
| Sounds like Apple might be aware it's their fault now.
|
| Perhaps they were intending on keeping that a customer
| responsibility for the comment above yours.
| judge2020 wrote:
| There would be consistent policy if an official recall was
| put out, but that looks even worse.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| How many years did it take for apple to issue their
| 'recall' (Service Program, in Apple parlance) for the
| butterfly keyboard woes?
| rvz wrote:
| So after all the hype that I have heard about the Apple Silicon
| computers, it seems like it takes a screen crack to make it
| useless and issue a repair cost of almost the price of a new
| one.
|
| Especially when as soon as the computer fails to boot or stops
| working, you have lost all data on the computer as the data
| cannot be recovered.
|
| Sounds like a total scam. Glad I never bought one on launch
| day.
| z9znz wrote:
| Obviously there is a defect problem affecting some of the new
| Macbooks, and Apple needs to step up and take responsibility.
| But that said, I personally think the Apple Silicon computers
| (the Air in particular) are worthy of the hype.
|
| This 1 year old M1 Air with 16GB RAM is twice as fast as my
| colleagues' Intel MBPs (comparing same year devices), and
| it's _silent_. It rarely even gets warm, even with Docker,
| several containers, JetBrains IDEs, Spotify, Firefox with a
| million tabs, etc. all going.
|
| > the data cannot be recovered
|
| For most HN readers, not having an adequate active
| backup/cloud sync system is difficult to imagine. When you
| can transfer about 1GB/s to a modern fast solid state
| external drive, plus we mostly have fast internet, it's easy
| to have live and periodic physical and remote backups.
|
| If there's a scam to be found, it's that Apple has a real
| problem affecting more than a few users, but they are denying
| it. The scam is not in the computer but in the
| warranty/repair practices.
| Ycombigatorz wrote:
| paulmd wrote:
| > Obviously there is a defect problem affecting some of the
| new Macbooks, and Apple needs to step up and take
| responsibility. But that said, I personally think the Apple
| Silicon computers (the Air in particular) are worthy of the
| hype.
|
| > This 1 year old M1 Air with 16GB RAM is twice as fast as
| my colleagues' Intel MBPs (comparing same year devices),
| and it's _silent_.
|
| According to the comments, this bug affects people with
| older Intel-based MBPs as well.
|
| It is, of course, unclear whether this is an actual issue,
| or just a catch-all for people who damaged their screens
| (micro-fracture) from various drops/impacts, and then over
| time the micro-fracture eventually worked and became a
| macro-fracture. They do that - glass can be damaged without
| actually being _visibly_ damaged until you put it under a
| microscope, and then some later much smaller stress (even
| just thermal stress) causes it to fracture along the weak
| spot.
|
| 50 pages of people sounds like a lot, but Macs are the most
| popular single-series laptop in production (other laptops
| have more in total, but it's fractured over many
| manufacturers and series) and if that translates to 500
| posts / 200 unique users who broke their screen, across 10
| years of usage... that's not actually all that much, or
| that surprising.
| heartbreak wrote:
| How did we get from a broken screen to unrecoverable data?
| MacBooks can book with an external display connected.
| haunter wrote:
| And that's why most people buy $500 laptops. Even if the screen
| broke you can probably buy a 3rd party one from Aliexpress for
| $100.
|
| But $800 for a replacement one? I'd rather sell the MBP for
| parts on eBay and buy a new one if must then pay that much.
| Like you would get more for that with a broken screen for sure,
| some people would fix it on their own or use it as a desktop
| computer.
|
| But I don't have a SV engineer salary so what do I know
| legitster wrote:
| > And that's why most people buy $500 laptops.
|
| It's also worth pointing out that the $500 laptop will
| probably last a lot longer than the most expensive Macbook.
| All plastic, they use a lot of older/reliable technology,
| they don't get used as rough - the most common failure mode
| is they get too old/slow for the user.
| tverbeure wrote:
| I'm anecdotally writing this on a 2012 15" rMacBook Pro
| that aside from some battery replacements just doesn't want
| to die...
|
| It blows all the "premium" work laptops out of the water.
| legitster wrote:
| > It blows all the "premium" work laptops out of the
| water.
|
| I disagree. I loved my Thinkpad T450s so much I bought an
| identical used machine when I quit the job. Since then
| it's been stepped on, dropped onto concrete multiple
| times, had beer and wine spilled on the keyboard.
|
| It cost me $250 + $100 for a battery replacement + $34
| for a new keyboard (when the wine spilled on it, it still
| worked but the keys were sticky) + $150 to upgrade the
| RAM.
|
| It's currently running Visual Studio Code, Photoshop, and
| prepping to run a pub trivia event later.
| bardworx wrote:
| In the last 12 years, I've owned 3 MacBooks. Maybe my
| experience isn't common, but the units that I've bought,
| have always outlived my windows machines.
|
| When averaged out to cost per year, in my experience, Apple
| is way cheaper.
| legitster wrote:
| Part of the issue here is that "Windows machines" could
| mean anything from an el cheapo Asus to a mil-spec
| Thinkpad.
|
| I also think that people don't necessarily appreciate how
| much quality improvements have been made in the last 5-7
| years in consumer laptops. Optical drives are gone,
| everything has an SSD, performance has plateaued and AMD
| is good again.
|
| Someone walking into Best Buy today and dropping $500 on
| a laptop will be getting a much more robust machine than
| when I did the same back in college.
| decremental wrote:
| I bought an Air in 2014 that lasted me until last year
| when I bought a new one. The old one still works. It's
| just too slow for my needs. I still open it up
| occasionally for some things. Longest running computer
| I've ever owned by a long shot.
| lolinder wrote:
| I probably use my laptops harder than most people, but this
| has not been my experience with plastic laptops. I lost two
| laptops in a row to the plastic case cracking. In the first
| case the case broke around the hinge and destroyed a fan.
| In the second, about half the keys on the keyboard stopped
| working. I'll never buy another plastic-chassis laptop
| after that second one.
| acdha wrote:
| This is lazy trolling - maybe it's true in your personal
| experience but there are tons of people who can say
| anything you want for n=1-2.
|
| If you want to do more than rehash 4 decades of "PC/Macs
| suck" forum posts, try finding some hard stats on resell
| value or enterprise fleet longevity.
| z9znz wrote:
| > And that's why most people buy $500 laptops.
|
| Most people is a sketchy expression, but I would venture a
| guess that "most people" buy cheap laptops because they don't
| really care, they don't know how to adequately judge which
| ones are worth more, and they also just don't want to spend
| much on a computer.
|
| It's hard to imagine, but "most people" actually care little
| about computers.
| JustSomeNobody wrote:
| I needed a new laptop last year. I decided to care less
| about my computer and so I chose not to get another Mac.
| Got a small Lenovo instead. Runs great with Linux. Does
| exactly everything I need it to do.
| jdshaffer wrote:
| I've been pondering doing something similar myself. If
| you don't mind my asking, which Lenovo did you get and
| which Linux variant does it seem to play nice with? :-)
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| I've been instructing (extended) family members asking
| about laptops to just get an ex-biz lenovo (x220, x230,
| etc) and let me configure Linux/do upgrades on it for the
| last 8-9 years.
|
| It serves all their use cases, and most of them are still
| working fine with no real repair need.
|
| The apple branch of the family though (my in-laws) have
| been having hardware failures almost consistently during
| that time.
| comprev wrote:
| For many people outside of HN demographic $500 is a lot of
| money for "a computer"
|
| A macbook would be like buying a top spec Mercedes when all
| they need is a no frills base model Ford.
| ok123456 wrote:
| Except the Mercedes is actually repairable.
| surfpel wrote:
| For most people, you'll have to take it to the mechanic
| and it'll cost you an arm and a leg... wait that sounds
| familiar...
| nickjj wrote:
| > For many people outside of HN demographic $500 is a lot
| of money for "a computer"
|
| It would be but it's also kind of overkill based on the
| specs you can get nowadays.
|
| I recently picked up a $350 Lenovo laptop new on Amazon
| for a family member as a present. It has all of the
| important things for a non-developer. A 1080p display,
| fairly light, 11th gen Intel CPU (i3), 8gb of memory and
| most importantly an SSD. It's lightning fast for browsing
| the web, working with Excel and playing browser games.
| jackmott42 wrote:
| I bought a Framework laptop, new screen is cheap and very
| very easy to swap in yourself.
| lttlrck wrote:
| I had to check.. $179!! That's amazing.
| XorNot wrote:
| Framework is my dream machine, still waiting for an
| Australia launch.
|
| Also hoping we'll see them execute on some additional
| keyboard layouts (or someone will) - avoiding Mac-like
| keyboards is one of my primary desires laptop wise.
| analog31 wrote:
| There must be a market for expensive new laptops, because
| there is a bustling market for refurbished ones -- my source
| of new gear.
|
| But I have a hunch Apple will make good on this.
| settrans wrote:
| Even $500 is rich, now, for a laptop. iPads and Chromebooks
| can be had for half that, and could run circles around the
| laptops of yesteryear. Hell, MT8183-powered Chromebooks cost
| $170 and still come with FHD touchscreens, 12-18 hours of
| battery life and have acceptable build quality.
| auggierose wrote:
| And that's why you get Apple Care with your MacBook.
| Ycombigatorz wrote:
| josephcsible wrote:
| That feels like saying "And that's why you pay the Mafia
| their protection money." These screens are breaking because
| they're defective, which is what the warranty is supposed
| to cover. Why should you have to pay Apple more money for
| them to do what they're already supposed to do?
| armchairhacker wrote:
| AppleCare is a good idea in general. Even if you're
| generally careful, you never know when the mac will break
| because of something that _was_ your fault
| josephcsible wrote:
| I break things infrequently enough that it's cheaper to
| keep the money I would have spent on protection plans in
| my bank account, and then just pay out of pocket when I
| do.
| auggierose wrote:
| You are still free to sue them if it is actually a faulty
| product. But maybe you want to get a quick repair done in
| the mean time without shelling out $800?
| smoldesu wrote:
| Waiting for Apple to admit wrongdoing is like trying to
| get blood from a stone. Remember the Nvidia chip failures
| that Apple caused by using cheap solder on their Logic
| Boards? They never fully owned-up to that one, despite
| being 100% culpable. We eventually got admissions of
| guilt for things like Lightning ports and Butterfly
| keyboards, but that doesn't fix the thousands of devices
| that are now using ass-backwards technology that can only
| be replaced once broken.
|
| The other comment is entirely right. The fact that Apple
| can sell a first-party service _entirely dedicated_ to
| replacing broken iDevices is evidence enough that it 's a
| racket.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| > You are still free to sue them
|
| Indeed you are free to sue a wide variety of criminals,
| but ususally we don't refer to them with reverence and
| respect
| davidf18 wrote:
| threeseed wrote:
| > And that's why most people buy $500 laptops
|
| It's why you buy $500 laptops. You can't extrapolate that to
| most people.
|
| Another reason is that they only have $500 and are buying
| whatever is available in that price range.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| If I had $500, I'd get a second hand ThinkPad. Gets you a lot
| more computer than a $500 semi-disposible thermally-crippled
| mehbook.
|
| My T440s is still going strong, and that was second hand back
| in 2016 (I did upgrade to an FHD matte screen).
| 999900000999 wrote:
| I can say without a doubt, the Mac minis are really good though.
|
| It should be illegal to sell a desktop computer with a hard drive
| that can never be replaced.
|
| All hard drives go bad eventually, and while my 2012 Mac mini
| allowed me to keep swapping out the hard drive. Which made it a
| great computer up until I kind of retired it when I bought a new
| m1 Mac mini.
|
| The current m1 Mac minis are all guaranteed to die within 10
| years when the hard drives fail. Sure, you can do an aftermarket
| replacement, sure, I guess you could weld a new hard drive in .
|
| But most people are going to just throw them out and buy new
| ones. I imagine depending on your usage, you might blow out your
| unreplaceable hard drive even sooner. Won't surprise me if these
| drives start failing within five or even 3 years for people
| storing tons of large files
|
| Say you make a lot of 4K and 5K movies, I can't imagine a tiny
| 256 SSD getting files written to it, and delete it from it over
| and over again will last that long.
| sschueller wrote:
| I miss the old non-reflecting plastic screens we used to have on
| laptops but I guess shiny glass sells better. Form over
| functional IMO.
| jabbany wrote:
| Actually most budget laptops still use plastic screens... It's
| only the high end models where things become glass.
|
| It almost makes sense, since if you're buying an expensive
| laptop, you're probably OK with higher cost of ownership too
| (as seen by the other replies on this thread of people spending
| multiple hundreds to repair their screens).
| martyvis wrote:
| Touch screens need to be glass, which is also in a lot of
| higher end non-Apple laptops.
| pmontra wrote:
| My 2016 car's touchscreen is plastic and capacitive (I
| operate it my my fingertips, not with nails.)
| jabbany wrote:
| Actually they don't at all. I have a few older tablets that
| have plastic screens and touch works just fine (not great,
| but good enough).
|
| The main benefit of glass is just that it looks nicer
| (clearer) and maintains the flatness of the screen better
| (compared to even harder plastic which will still deform a
| lot under pressure). On phones there is an additional
| benefit of scratch resistance, but that's less of an issue
| for laptops.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Apple used to offer that in 17" even
| Kalanos wrote:
| Isn't this what happens when you close any laptop when there is
| something on the keyboard?
| r3012 wrote:
| https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/16/class-action-lawsuit-screen-c...
|
| Filed in Sept 2021.
|
| "A class-action lawsuit is being planned on behalf of M1 MacBook
| owners who say that screen cracks were occurring during normal
| use, with both the M1 MacBook Air and M1 MacBook Pro affected.
|
| Apple has mostly claimed that the cracks are the result of
| accidental damage, including in the case of the 9to5Mac reader
| who first contacted us"
| mkagenius wrote:
| My 10 day old Macbook with M1 Pro died suddenly last week. In
| India we don't have Genius bars like in the States, what we have
| is a franchise model where in small repair shops are given the
| right to repair (only part to part replacement) and they probably
| get some commission. The guys in these shops are very afraid of
| Apple and its policies. Even things which normally would get
| fixed in Genius bars without any second thought, these shops will
| outright refuse to repair with the fear that Apple would revoke
| their license. Now this has directly affected the customers like
| me. Moreover, the staff in these shops are highly incompetent and
| do not have good knowledge about Apple in general. In my case,
| the shop lady put a big scratch on the top of my Macbook while
| she was rotating it after putting it upside down on the table to
| take pictures from all angle. Apparently it is required. Not sure
| if they have this procedure in the US when you go to submit the
| laptop. Now, the staff at the shop told me they do not want to
| involve the management and they would do something about it. Had
| this been completely managed by Apple, this wouldn't have made a
| single dent in Apple's profit if they just decided to give me a
| new laptop but since its a franchise model, they behave
| differently, and do not want to lose a single rupee and hence
| refuse to replace or even change the top case having the scratch
| caused by them.
|
| Moreover, they will take around 2-3 weeks to replace your logic
| board / battery / screen / keyboard. Just about anything. I don't
| know if Apple will survive if they did this in the US.
|
| Apple support informed me that they are waiting for a reply from
| the shop, about the scratch and status in general before they
| could take any action - its been 5 days (including the weekend)
| already.
| bubblethink wrote:
| The trick here is to buy Thinkpads which come with
| international warranty and accidental damage protection. In
| fact, the warranty/ADP is mostly useful in international
| scenarios because within the US, you can buy parts pretty
| easily on ebay.
| webmobdev wrote:
| Spot on. Apple direct customer support really suck in India. In
| my city, the authorised store and service centre always act
| entitled like they are doing me a big favour (probably because
| we don't buy it from them directly). Last I went there to find
| out if a discoloured iPad screen could be repaired, and they
| said they can't examine my device unless I pay Rs. 500 (around
| US $5-$6) first. So I shell out the money, and they look at the
| screen and ask me if I have factory reset the iPad. I said yes,
| I had done that. The service "engineer" then returns the iPad
| to me and says, _" Apple does not repair any iPad hardware in
| India. If it is under warranty, they will replace the device
| with another iPad."_ I asked him why he didn't tell me all this
| before charging me Rs. 500. He looked at me like he was staring
| at a jackass (which I guess he was :).
| lstamour wrote:
| If it's only been 10 days, can you return it? That seems
| extreme, yet maybe expected if something didn't quite pass QA,
| it might show up that early.
|
| I can confirm that at a real Apple Store I've had genius bar
| folks take photos of everything also. Seems to be Apple policy
| these days, if they feel like it, to more easily blame the
| customer.
|
| Doesn't always happen though, and sometimes it helps - e.g. I
| received a "repaired" watch that had new dents in it and used
| the photos to show that. Of course, they then said my watch was
| missing a tiny microphone mesh I'd never seen before and still
| demanded an AppleCare repair fee from me. I paid, because it
| wasn't much in the long run, but I'm a bit annoyed at how much
| Apple has changed lately.
|
| A battery replacement took 8 days to ship back to the store
| (almost 14 days total) when they could have done it in-store
| while I waited, but the system said "no, it must be shipped in
| to be replaced" with no reason given.
| scottydelta wrote:
| India doesn't have return policies like US.
|
| Once you buy the product, there is literally no way to return
| in. I have lived in both the places and there is a stark
| difference between policies.
| scottydelta wrote:
| Had to deal with this recently.
|
| My iPhone's screen stopped working suddenly right before I was
| due to travel.
|
| Apple authorized service center in India said it will take 2-3
| weeks to send and get it back from repair center.
|
| I decided to take it with me on my travel and just strolled
| into an apple store in Dubai mall the next day. It was fixed in
| literally 40 minutes there.
|
| It's surprising how Dubai with such a low population and low
| apple users as compared to India gets this preferential
| treatment.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Is it really surprising...? Think of the $$$$$$'s....
| tamrix wrote:
| Lenovo and Dell will do next day business support. Apple needs
| to up their game if they want to be taken seriously for
| business needs.
| pmontra wrote:
| HP also does that. I used it once to replace a screen that
| had a vertical band because a problem in a hinge. I called
| the assistance, sent a video, they sent me the technician It
| was about 90 Euro for 3 years. Then about the same amount for
| the 4th year, then nothing, but I can buy parts and replace
| them. It's an easy laptop to service.
| ravenstine wrote:
| I own an M1 mac and, although I haven't exactly abused it,
| there's been multiple times where it fell pretty hard both flat
| and on corners, and it's held up extremely well.
|
| However, it being a very thin laptop I think puts it at greater
| risk of catastrophic damage, which is why I back up most things
| in my home directory and treat the Air as something that will
| either break or be traded in. That way if anything goes wrong, I
| can get a new laptop and be minimally affected.
|
| This isn't to say that Macbooks should crack so easily, but I
| think this is the right way to approach basically any consumer
| grade device.
| luis8 wrote:
| Maybe it's a quality control issue?.I ordered a fully spec'd
| macbook pro and it had a small dent in the frame of the screen.
| It's really small but still piss me off that I paid 4k+ for a
| device that was not pristine when I opened the package
| willio58 wrote:
| Did you take it in?
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| Doesn't the M1 air use the same chassis as previous Intel based
| MacBook airs?
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| It does, but the screen or how it is attached is probably
| different in some way.
|
| There is no way the M1 gets nearly as hot as my Intel machines.
| hedgehog wrote:
| I have an M1 Air, under enough load it'll run right up
| towards 100C and that heat is localized over the processor.
| It seems possible there's something about the thermal design
| that makes this configuration more prone to this problem than
| previous machines. Aluminum expands more than glass so the
| problem would most likely be something around the chassis /
| hinge area.
| Bolkan wrote:
| > There is no way the M1 gets nearly as hot as my Intel
| machines.
|
| Maybe that's why it's breaking.
| madrox wrote:
| Sounds like a manufacturing or sourcing issue. I can only imagine
| Apple hasn't recalled or notified customer support to be on the
| lookout for this because Apple themselves isn't even aware of the
| issue. How would they know? Techs writing up these issues are
| probably attributing them all to user damage. Unless someone is
| actively looking for a noticeable uptick in user damage cases I
| doubt it even comes up.
| viraptor wrote:
| Apple is notorious about keeping information secret. We won't
| know if they know about the issue or not until they act on it.
| There's next to no chance that they'll say "we've noticed this
| issue increasing and are discussing internally how to handle
| it". It took years to acknowledge the keyboard issues.
| conductr wrote:
| They should know it's not normal to replace this many screens
| on a ~2 year old product line, they should be monitoring this
| type of data. It shouldn't have to bubble up from the front
| lines of tech support
| madrox wrote:
| They absolutely should, but I would not be shocked if they
| weren't
| legitster wrote:
| I still don't understand the appeal of aluminum/glass
| construction. I couldn't think of a worse set of materials to
| make a laptop out of.
|
| For comparison, nearly every other ultrabook manufacturer has
| moved onto magnesium or carbon fiber for chassis construction.
| Both materials are much physically stronger, lighter, and (most
| importantly, imho) offer more intrinsic shock protection.
|
| I know people enjoy the "luxury" look and feel of a Macbook and
| criticize other manufacturers for using composite materials. But
| I don't think most people understand that for other
| manufacturers, moving to aluminum unibody construction at this
| point would probably be a _cost-saving measure_.
|
| Apple does not offer a single product that is MIL-SPEC tested,
| despite nearly every other manufacturer having some or all of
| their product line submitted to standardized endurance testing.
| r3012 wrote:
| There are trade-off there to consider.
|
| One get's ruggedness but carbon fiber is generally not a good
| thermal conductor which could be a problem for a laptop with no
| fans. And titanium is very expensive compared to aluminum.
|
| Like all engineering. It's about priorities.
| londons_explore wrote:
| I don't think the aluminium ever touches the glass...
|
| They always make sure there is a layer of plastic or glue a few
| hundred micrometers thick to absorb any stresses from thermal
| variations or falls.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| My friends vehicle hit an IED in Afghanistan. Everyone's
| personal MacBooks that were inside broke but his Toshiba was
| fine.
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| Carbon fibre chips and shatters. Metal bends.
|
| I really don't see how carbon fibre would be in an way better
| than what Apple uses right now.
| legitster wrote:
| > Metal bends
|
| Aluminum bends and flexes. Magnesium alloys would shatter (if
| you could even apply enough force). The chassis chipping or
| flaking seems preferable to bending and flexing for the
| longevity of the internals.
| 95014_refugee wrote:
| Aluminium is recyclable.
|
| Carbon fibre is a recycling disaster. Magnesium alloys somewhat
| less so, but there is very little demand for them.
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| It's their brand. Apple continues to use aluminum because
| they've invested a lot into it and they're good at it. I
| occasionally hear a quote get thrown about on apple-centric
| tech podcasts that Apple probably has the greatest
| concentration of aluminum material science expertise not just
| of tech companies, but of any company that exists. So much so
| that Elon Musk poached one of their engineers to work on
| aluminum for Tesla.
| vonseel wrote:
| There's an ongoing joke in the military, MIL-SPEC just means
| it's a piece of crap that's going to break pretty soon. From an
| engineering point of view, I'd like to believe that using all
| MIL-SPEC components which are rated to last longer and in
| harsher environments would amount to a more reliable product.
| But maybe a product is more than the sum of its parts, and it's
| possible a company can build a more reliable product despite
| not using MIL-SPEC components or obtaining that certification.
| Just something to think about.
| legitster wrote:
| Sure. But I think there is a fundamental difference in
| philosophy when Thinkpad or MSI have web pages bragging about
| how well their laptops handle moisture ingress and Apple just
| has a warranty statement.
| xt00 wrote:
| But the screen is probably 0.25mm thinner people, the reduction
| in reliability / fragility is definitely worth that folks!!!
| blagie wrote:
| I stopped by Sony phones because of the same issue. Sony Xperia
| Z-series phones would spontaneously develop serious screen
| cracks. I thought it was a fluke, but it happened over, and over,
| and over. The last Sony phone I bought was in a padded case in a
| padded bag when the screen cracked.
|
| Similar forum threads later appeared.
|
| It'd be interesting to know the root cause.
| lewisl9029 wrote:
| A friend just had this happen to their M1 Air under warranty and
| Apple quoted him $400 for the repair claiming it was "accidental"
| damage, even though he didn't do anything to it, like the 50
| pages of people who replied in the thread.
|
| Wanted to make a quick PSA against purchasing one of these to
| save a few hundred bucks vs the M2 Air which hopefully won't have
| this problem, and possibly put some pressure on Apple to take
| care of their customers for what is clearly a widespread hardware
| defect.
| asdff wrote:
| After the keyboard fiasco I am very nervous about upgrading my
| 2012 macbook. I tried the last intel model air (same body as
| the m1) and that computer was an absolute lemming. This 2012
| computer sure looks old and ugly, but I can replace all the
| components myself with a screwdriver, and the body was designed
| so the cpu could actually work at 100% and not end up thermally
| throttled. The computer gets hot and the fans get loud for
| sure, but it doesn't throttle any. Back then the base clocks
| were probably set to more sane thresholds for heat's sake
| versus today's turboboosted cpus in thin cases with poor air
| circulation that inevitably throttle under long term load.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| During a recent heatwave, I was working on my back patio,
| where the temperature peaked at 104F.
|
| My 14" M1 MBP didn't notice. No fan noise, no performance
| issues. My windows laptop that I was barely using to test and
| issue struggled. The CPUs were throttled down and the fan was
| throttled up. My body found itself wishing that I had an
| internal fan! :)
| r00fus wrote:
| My entry-level M1 Air is faster than my mid-spec 2019 MBP.
| These physical design issues might be valid reason, but speed
| isn't one.
| karamanolev wrote:
| Given the number of models with the butterfly keyboards which
| were somewhat similar (model-wide issues, not acknowledged by
| Apple, blamed on the user), what makes you think M2 Air is
| going to fix any potential screen issues?
| rexf wrote:
| This. Hoping it's fixed on the latest version is wishful
| thinking.
|
| Apple tends to downplay and/or ignore issues. Sometimes they
| don't have to do anything and other times, they offer a
| repair program.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Usually they have repair programs for major issues.
|
| My 2015 MBP was replaced twice and repaired once for screen
| delamination issues.
| sidyapa wrote:
| I have another issue. Randomly my M1 Macbook Air's frames drop
| below 20fps and I can see a trail behind the cursor and when I
| swipe between diff apps. Happens quite regularly with cpu idling
| at 97% and 6-7gb of memory left unused
| caboteria wrote:
| Sounds like another round of "you're holding it wrong" -
| https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/
| zizee wrote:
| Earlier this year I threw my son his USB earbuds container. Not a
| heavy thing. I threw it in a high arc, and on its way down it
| glanced off the edge of his MacBook screen. It seemed like the
| lightest of touches, but it must have hit in just the right (or
| wrong) spot, and the screen ended up with a large crack, and
| stopped working. I was super surprised how fragile the screen
| was, especially given how tough iPads and iPhone seem to be. When
| it happened, I couldn't believe such a light glancing blow could
| have done it. I was definitely responsible for cracking the
| screen through my actions, but it did highlight to me that
| macbooks are not robust at all, not the high quality I had come
| to expect.
| varenc wrote:
| digression: the linked URL seems to be using some internal apple
| domain. The "proper" link is:
| https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252794122?page=49
|
| My guess is that the `origin-discussions2-us-dr-prz` subdomain
| refers to a set of servers which the main discussions.apple.com
| host would dynamically route you to based on IP location?
| [deleted]
| stereoradonc wrote:
| Another reason to avoid Apple. Manufacturing defects! Why isn't
| that being called as so?
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| "for no apparent reason" is valid, and will be extremely hard for
| an owner to prove. It's happened before in several television
| sets:
|
| https://www.avsforum.com/threads/samsung-s4253-plasma-screen...
| traveler01 wrote:
| This is a widespread issue, it's almost like the computers are
| designed for this to happen. I've seen Windows laptops without
| any glass protection at the front with better durability.
| xtracto wrote:
| Apple is the king of planned obsolecense in the computing
| segment.
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