[HN Gopher] Omega-3 fatty acids and exercise: a review of their ...
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Omega-3 fatty acids and exercise: a review of their combined
effects (2011) [pdf]
Author : simonebrunozzi
Score : 85 points
Date : 2022-08-17 13:52 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.lookgreatnaked.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.lookgreatnaked.com)
| spamizbad wrote:
| Vitamins and supplements stay losing. What a racket.
| leroman wrote:
| I'm a long time Vegan, few month back I started tacking a
| multi-vitamin for no special reason.. I do blood tests from
| time to time and everything looks fine.. No deficiencies.
| Still, I notices I was getting less tired in specific
| situations.. I'm not sure what exact ingredient had this effect
| but hopefully the multi-vitamin is not causing any damage so I
| keep taking them.
| colordrops wrote:
| Probably B12? Has an energizing effect, and is often a
| megadose in multivitamins.
| Escapado wrote:
| Vegetarian here who recently started taking multi vitamins +
| extra vitamin d + k2 (after being diagnosed with a severe
| vitamin d deficiency). I also get less tired since and even
| more so my sleep has improved drastically within about 2
| months. I fall asleep _so_ much faster. Usually 10 minutes
| now instead of an hour and I also sleep through most nights
| instead of waking up 6 or 7 times for no reason for the past
| 10 years. I haven't changed other variables (I think) but so
| far I am happy with the results. Also purely anecdotal.
| collaborative wrote:
| Vitamins and minerals have cured my hopeless eczema. No doctor
| could do that for nearly a decade
| maipen wrote:
| would you mind sharing what you took. I've been suffering
| from eczema for nearly a year I believe. I've been taking
| some vit. D and Cod liver oil, some zinc (only some months).
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _have cured my hopeless eczema_
|
| I'm glad you found something that worked. But you're
| describing, by definition, a vitamin deficiency. (That _can_
| cause dermatitis.)
| amelius wrote:
| Conclusion:
|
| > At this time, research is largely inconclusive as to the
| potential synergistic benefits when n-3 [i.e., Omega-3 fatty
| acids] is supplemented in conjunction with exercise.
| MPSimmons wrote:
| I am glad that negative results are still published and receive
| some attention.
| [deleted]
| nonameiguess wrote:
| This is a lit review. The studies cited were:
|
| - Participants assigned to fish oil + exercise, fish oil, corn
| oil, and control. After 12 weeks, only fish oil + exercise
| resulted in significant fat loss, but no exercise only control
| group.
|
| - Participants assigned to fish oil + exercise, fish oil only,
| exercise only, and control. After 10 weeks, no body composition
| differences noted between any groups, but no group was very fat
| to begin with.
|
| - Fat participants assigned to either fish oil + exercise,
| sunflower oil + exercise, fish oil alone, or sunflower oil alone.
| Fish oil + exercise significantly outperformed other protocols
| after 12 weeks.
|
| - Fat participants assigned to either fish oil + exercise or
| placebo + exercise. After 24 weeks, both groups lost about 5% of
| their fat without any significant difference between groups.
|
| - I have no idea what "RBC deformability" is, but two studies
| assessed it by having participants perform cycling time trials in
| a hypobaric chamber. One study gave fish oil for 6 weeks and
| found a significant difference. One gave fish oil for 3 weeks and
| found no difference.
|
| - Well-trained cyclists assigned to either take fish oil or olive
| oil for 8 weeks. Fish oil group saw significantly lower heart
| rates during submaximal exercise, but no difference in peak
| oxygen consumption.
|
| - A 60-day study of national football players assigned to either
| fish oil or control. The fish oil group saw better lipid profiles
| at the end.
|
| - A study of elite Australian rules football players assigned to
| either fish oil or sunflower oil while training normally for 5
| weeks. They performed treadmill speed trials at the end. The fish
| oil group had lower heart rates while running, but no performance
| difference between groups.
|
| Take of this what you will. The reasons usually given to take
| fish oil are for long-run heart health. This seems to indicate
| you probably won't perform better or lose more fat compared to
| someone who exercises the same way but doesn't take fish oil, but
| you may see improvements in blood lipid profile, lower heart
| rates, and less oxygen consumption during submaximal exertion.
| All of those sound like good things to me.
| bicijay wrote:
| I know people are like parrots and like to repeat the same
| "multivitamins are useless", but after starting it, i noticed
| some improvements on my digestive system and fatigue after covid.
| Sometimes anecdotals are useful, whatever works for you.
| swatcoder wrote:
| For most people, "X is useless" is a short way of saying:
|
| _Based on the headlines and search results I've skimmed, X has
| not been proven useful in whatever handful of demographic and
| contextual cross-sections have been studied. In accordance with
| other intuitions of my own, I extrapolate this to mean that X
| is useless in all demographics and contexts, that the question
| of value is conclusively answered in the negative, and -- for
| some reason -- it's now important to me that you draw the same
| conclusion, even if you have reason to keep an open mind or
| conclude otherwise._
|
| The shorthand phrasing omits all the pesky subjective,
| unscientific stuff as well as the weird emotional investment in
| other people's thinking, so it might be helpful to just keep
| the long form version in mind when you hear the parrots.
| bicijay wrote:
| Same thing happens with GABA, theoretically it should not
| work in a supplement form because it does not cross the BBB.
| And it always comes with the same "GABA is useless" advice.
| Except im literally dreaming again after starting taking it.
| Could it be a placebo? Sure. But if its working, why should i
| believe its useless? I know HN is probably not the right
| place to say it, but taking every decision in your life (even
| minimals one like starting take a vitamin) based on
| underfunded studies might lead you to miss some some
| improvements in your life.
| switchbak wrote:
| I'm the kind of personality that doesn't often take those
| statements as gospel anyway. I've found a lot of value in
| life by going against the (mainstream) grain and digging in
| on occasion, it's certainly happened enough times that I've
| become super skeptical of those that come off as
| reactionary skeptics.
|
| But that probably means I've wasted a lot of time proving
| things people just told me. It's a trade I'm happy with :)
| raverbashing wrote:
| Whoever says that usually follow a tautological way of
| thinking, that is "people in perfect health don't need it" but
| _of course_ having a vitamin deficiency is not having "perfect
| health"
| joshuajill wrote:
| Exactly, and there is far too little vitamin deficiency
| testing.
| DerekBickerton wrote:
| I take fish oils for brain health, since our brain is made of fat
| and the more (good) fats we have in our diet, the better it is
| for the brain. I also use MCT oil and combine it with eggs and
| use it as dressing on salad.
|
| If I was going to use supplements for exercise, I would use
| protein, glucosamine (for joint health) and maybe 200mg of
| caffeine as a pre-workout stimulant to help me focus. Milk,
| especially 'protein milk' which they sell in my local supermarket
| can alleviate sore muscles.
| copperx wrote:
| > I take fish oils for brain health, since our brain is made of
| fat and the more (good) fats we have in our diet, the better it
| is for the brain.
|
| Is that an assumption, or is it based on fact?
| deepnet wrote:
| "There is no difference between a stick of butter and your
| brain.", Hibbeln
|
| - https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17523575-800-the-
| happ...
|
| "A study by JR Hibbeln showed that around the world,
| countries that consume the least amount of fatty fish show
| the highest levels of major depression (MDD) in their
| population. And countries where fatty fish is the main diet
| show the lowest incidence of MDD."
|
| - https://www.loricalabresemd.com/blog/effect-of-fatty-acids/
| bostonpete wrote:
| Would be nice if they linked the study or at least an
| article about it.
| vixen99 wrote:
| With respect, 'More we have, the better it is' is not a
| sensible idea to follow with diet. Hold on I'm being too
| polite. It's dead wrong. Better to Look for optimum intake
| according to best advice you can glean. As the paper itself
| reminds us, 'too much omega-3 fat is immunosuppressive and
| prolongs bleeding time.'
| amelius wrote:
| I once took fish oil supplements. Then somebody told me how
| they make them. They put fish remnants in a pot with water,
| boil it, then scrape the fat from the top of the pot. Since
| there are basically no checks for how supplements are made it's
| a much better idea to eat high quality unprocessed foods.
| colordrops wrote:
| You can take algal oil, same thing and much less repulsive.
| adrian_b wrote:
| Also 8 times more expensive.
| staticassertion wrote:
| You can get supplements that do get lab certified.
| SmellyPotato22 wrote:
| Seems like an effective way to extract the fat and get use
| out of whole fish. Similar to any soup. I do wish FDA
| regulated some supplements but I think reputable brands are
| doing the good for the most part.
| sgtnoodle wrote:
| How else would you extract oil from a fish?
| tedunangst wrote:
| Artisanally.
| JustSomeNobody wrote:
| Same way you extract lemon juice from a lemon?
|
| /s
| jackmott wrote:
| dehrmann wrote:
| > glucosamine (for joint health)
|
| Studies on it are mixed. Interestingly, you omitted creatine.
| Studies on it are not mixed; it increases power output.
| recyclelater wrote:
| Nit pick, it just provides extra creatine in muscles, which
| is required for atp. You basically get a couple extra reps
| per set if you workout, not necessarily more power. Helps you
| gain muscle by giving you more energy to stress your muscles,
| so they adapt more.
| cbreynoldson wrote:
| Important to point out, for those that try supplements and "don't
| notice anything different," sources (and types) matter.
|
| In this case, fish oil sources matter. Oxidation, polychlorinated
| biphenyls (PCBs) matter. You can filter for quality sources that
| meet the International Fish Oil Standards here:
| https://certifications.nutrasource.ca/certified-products?typ...
| user3939382 wrote:
| I would only trust these certifications if there's absolutely
| no money involved in getting certified. Otherwise there's a
| conflict of interest.
| jackmott42 wrote:
| I am 43 years old and having been into various kinds of fitness
| (weight lifting, endurance cycling, etc) I've seen hundreds of
| supplement fads come and go, and come back. The typical
| progression is:
|
| * Everyone is excited about X which improves Y
|
| * Studies looking into X find no improvement in Y and/or some
| people don't notice X improve Y
|
| * People invested in X argue that they are not timing/dosing X
| properly, or people do not have the right form of X
|
| It usually descends into absurdities where you are supposed to
| find this rare unicorn brand that has the proper quality (for
| now, who knows next year!) then dose it at some exact time
| before bed time, but avoiding calcium or citric acid or
| something because that would nullify it etc etc.
|
| Supposing the supplement even ever worked, it simply is not
| practically useful with such constraints. I'm not going to get
| a PHD in fish oil quality in order to achieve some single digit
| risk reduction of heart disease.
| tedunangst wrote:
| It has to be only turmeric grown above 5000 ft elevation.
| adamdusty wrote:
| At least it's getting studied. Most fitness supplements are
| total garbage advertised by equally garbage people trying to
| make money risking other people's health.
|
| The paper pretty much says fish oil + exercise does not
| increase performance ("inconclusive") and some evidence for
| improved fat loss. Many of the studies reviewed by the paper
| show evidence that heart rate is lower during "submaximal"
| exertion.
|
| GP links to a list of "certified" fish oil sources, so if you
| wanted to at minimum test for yourself, you could just pick
| one from the list before you pursue your fish oil PhD.
| nicoburns wrote:
| > I'm not going to get a PHD in fish oil quality in order to
| achieve some single digit risk reduction of heart disease.
|
| You don't need a PhD, just read the amazon reviews for
| different brands.
| margalabargala wrote:
| It's difficult to imagine a less reliable information
| source than amazon reviews for unregulated dietary
| supplements.
| mechanical_bear wrote:
| I do not trust reviews anymore, they get gamed to a large
| degree.
| tomohawk wrote:
| Algae based omega 3 supplements are worth a look. The algae is
| the actual source of omega 3s, as the fish eat the algae.
|
| With fish based sources, there's a lot to worry about and
| making sure you get from a reputable source. With algae based,
| there's less environmental impact and less worry about what
| else is getting in there, etc. This brand's been good for me:
| https://iwilife.com/
| vocram wrote:
| I wish I could perceive some kind of even minuscule cause-effect
| for any of the supplements I take, barring caffeine
| DantesKite wrote:
| That reminds me of how people who wear WHOOP watches stop
| drinking alcohol as much because they noticed the impact it had
| on their cardio.
|
| Would be interesting if you could reliably measure certain
| health metrics beyond heart rate over time.
|
| I bet that would get people to take or avoid certain things.
| justinator wrote:
| What's funny is that it's not a secret that alcohol isn't
| good for you; we shouldn't need a WHOOP to tell us the
| obvious. But here we are.
| [deleted]
| adamdusty wrote:
| Do you know anybody with one? I've never heard of WHOOP
| before. It looks cool, but $30/month for what seems like a
| fitbit is a bit much for me. I guess the difference is the
| WHOOP device is included in the subscription.
|
| Id be interested to hear someone's experience with it vs a
| 'normal' fitness tracker.
| toddm wrote:
| I've been a fitness and gadget junkie for a long time.
|
| I was gifted a WHOOP 6-month subscription in December 2020,
| and I used it from then until the end of that 6-month term.
| This was the 3.0 platform.
|
| It was fine for the price - $0 - and provided me with HRV
| and a "sleep score", which is of interest to me and other
| athletes as one indicator of "fitness."
|
| I did not - and will not - pay $360/year for WHOOP. I could
| actually buy a pretty nice state-of-the-art new real
| fitness tracker for less than that, and the features that
| were somewhat novel to WHOOP are now standard on other
| hardware platforms (Garmin, Polar, others). Note that with
| many Fitbits and clones, you get GPS built-in so you can
| leave your phone at home and do your thing.
|
| It differed from other fitness trackers mostly by what it
| _didn 't_ have, and DC Rainmaker has exhaustive reviews up
| to and including the current 4.0 release.
|
| In short, it's not a fitness tracker like a Fitbit Charge 4
| or a Garmin Venu 2 Plus - I own both - because it doesn't
| track steps, has no GPS (you need to lug around your phone
| for that), and relies entirely on HR for what it tells you
| - all for a pretty heavy price tag. It also doesn't pair
| with 3rd party HR hardware (such as the usually more
| accurate EKG-based ones like a Garmin or TICKR chest strap)
| and relies on wrist optical sensors.
|
| There are a number of metrics WHOOP reports, but they are
| simply rehashed versions of metrics developed by Andy
| Coggan and others some time ago.
|
| TL;DR: WHOOP is overpriced and not feature-rich as a
| fitness/activity tracker. If you get one for free, try it
| out. You can easily get the same functionality and more for
| half the price of a yearly subscription.
| switchbak wrote:
| The few I can notice real effects with are;
| Iron, but I typically have low iron. Takes a while to kick in.
| Beta-alanine: I notice same day improvements in lung function
| Vitamin D: but only after a couple weeks and only if I'm low.
|
| Besides that I've found no correlation at all, but this is
| super anecdotal anyway.
| justinator wrote:
| Iron is really a touchy one to get right, as its easy to go
| overboard. Good thing you know you have low iron, but if
| you're not sure a blood test can illuminate if a problem is
| there - a good "talk to your doctor first" supp.
| nostromo wrote:
| Low dose melatonin works within 30 minutes and its effect is
| very noticeable.
| justinator wrote:
| Taking magnesium (like in Calm) knocks me the F-out.
| arboghast wrote:
| I started taking 3g of pharmaceutical grade fish oil about 1
| year ago with 5000IUs vitamin D and 120mcg of K2 MK-7. I don't
| "feel" anything but my Garmin is clear that my RHR and VO2max
| have greatly improved, and yet that's on 5-6h sleep per night.
| I'm also definitely less sick.
|
| Now question remains, which of those is responsible for this?
| bilobla wrote:
| How much could you improve your vo2max with that setup and
| sport?
| jackmott42 wrote:
| To be clear the question is how much you can improve the
| Garmin's estimation of your Vo2 max, which is a different
| thing.
| staticassertion wrote:
| Garmin?
| mechanical_bear wrote:
| Sport gps watch, measures vo2, bpm, etc
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| Or not? Perhap it's the placebo effect?
|
| Note: Not knocking it. I exercise. I take vitamins. Etc. But
| the more I read, the more I wonder about the mind's role in
| physical and mental health.
|
| Belief is a power we're not even close to understanding.
| jackmott42 wrote:
| could be simply you continuing to work out consistently for a
| year
| arboghast wrote:
| Here's the thing, I don't work out much, if at all other
| than cleaning the house and mowing the lawn. Not much has
| changed on the lifestyle side, overall.
|
| I recently started doing the stepper and noticed the
| improvement compared to occasional physical activity that I
| inconsistently do from time to time (e.g. sports outside
| with the kids).
|
| Edit: typos
| justinator wrote:
| I think you may have to admit there's not enough data to
| really come to any conclusion. But if you at least _feel_
| better, that 's good!
| arboghast wrote:
| I don't disagree and it's purely anecdotal.
| eezurr wrote:
| If you can find fresh oiled packed (refrigerated, typically not
| salted) white anchovies, a small handful of them feels similar
| to taking focus enhancing drugs. They are also delicious.
|
| By contrast, tin packed/anythong not fresh has no effect for
| me.
| upsidesinclude wrote:
| O-3s have been proven to reduce stress and anger! Believe that?
| From a study on it in Norway. So I guess regardless of what this-
| now 11 year old study- had to say on the issue, it is likely
| quite beneficial if you lack adequate amounts in your normal
| diet.
|
| You can easily get adequate amounts by eating the right foods,
| namely fish and nuts. But you don't have to eat those things if
| you don't like them and can take krill oil pills or something.
|
| Supplements aren't created equal. It is important to verify the
| ones you take are from legitimate brands with 3rd party testing.
| It's a huge industry and that means fraud.
|
| It's also life today in the world where olive oil, maple syrup
| and honey are often fake. And guess what!? That fake olive oil
| made with rapeseed/"vegetable" oil isn't great for you either.
| There aren't many people making sure that stuff is real either.
| luckman212 wrote:
| This is so depressing. Is there any way to test your oils at
| home for authenticity?
| upsidesinclude wrote:
| There are a few groups that do testing and report findings
| for various foodstuffs[0]. It is definitely worth the time to
| keep up to date
|
| 0. https://nclnet.org/evoo_testing/
| vocram wrote:
| extra virgin olive oil has a very distinctive taste and
| smell... guess of what?
| olddustytrail wrote:
| szundi wrote:
| If you eat domestically grown fish, that does not contain O-3.
| It comes from algae in the ocean. Wild ocean fish only.
| ch4s3 wrote:
| That doesn't seem to be the case[1].
|
| [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/finding-omega-3-fats-
| in-...
| ralusek wrote:
| Besides exercise I'm here yet again to evangelize sunlight.
| Getting 15-30 minutes of direct sunlight in my garden per day has
| changed my life. Impossible to overstate how much better I feel.
| staticassertion wrote:
| That's interesting because sunlight is also something I imagine
| a lot of doctors (certainly a dermatologist) will recommend
| avoiding. Do you wear sunscreen?
| justinator wrote:
| Avoid sunlight in excess is different than avoiding sunlight
| _completely_. Getting exposed to early morning light for
| 15-30 minutes has shown to be very beneficial.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I try to maximize Omega-3 intake, primarily by making and eating
| lots of Chia Seed puddings and preferring quality sourced
| sardines for protein.
|
| Sorry to be subjective, but all I have is my opinion: I feel
| better when I maximize Omega-3 and do some other easy diet things
| like avoiding packaged foods and eating plenty of berries and
| fresh vegetables. I used to be fussier about my diet but now I
| just do these simple things.
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