[HN Gopher] A bike tour of Dresden, the heart of Germany's semic...
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       A bike tour of Dresden, the heart of Germany's semiconductor
       industry
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2022-08-22 18:51 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (innovationorigins.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (innovationorigins.com)
        
       | phgn wrote:
       | AWS also has an office in Dresden that works on the EC2
       | hypervisor!
        
       | robocat wrote:
       | I love the guy dumping a container of liquid down the drain in
       | the second photo. Edit: probably coffee from drip tray . . .
       | probably.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | JesseMReeves wrote:
       | These are some of the worst photos you can show of Dresden.
       | 
       | Try some image search instead. It's called ,,the Florence of the
       | Elbe river" for good reason. There are almost no big cities in
       | Germany today that are comparatively beautiful (Munster maybe,
       | but it's smaller). Some impressive art has been collected there.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | This is geek++ tourism, which doesn't follow the typical
         | expectations for tourist photos. My idea of fun is visiting a
         | sewage treatment plant: preferably shown around by an engineer
         | that is excited by it all and shows you the wet wear.
         | 
         | At the end of the article the writer says "let's not forget
         | that Dresden is also one of Germany's biggest attractions with
         | a beautifully renovated city center and surroundings which are
         | a sight to behold. Vineyards line the River Elbe, the porcelain
         | town of Meissen and the Saxon Switzerland National Park."
         | 
         | ++ using the meaning of geek from last century, not the modern
         | pop culture version.
         | 
         | Edited: minor changes.
        
       | jansan wrote:
       | IMO there is still a lot of untapped potential in the south
       | eastern German states Saxonia (the state where Dresden is
       | located) and Thuringia. Both states historically had gread, very
       | advanced industries and craftsmanship, which suffered a lot
       | during socialist times. There are still great people, but it
       | obviously takes a long time to catch up once the whole industry
       | lost its competitiveness due to a failed political system.
        
         | xxpor wrote:
         | The AfD support there is quite worrying.
        
         | blueflow wrote:
         | I'm sad for all the hate this place gets in the sibling posts.
         | 
         | I live here and its not that bad, but i also know that i can't
         | just grab you from the internet and show you around the place
         | and its non-hateful sides.
        
         | blueflow wrote:
         | > which suffered a lot during socialist times
         | 
         | The other way around, they were doing great (Robotron, Wismut,
         | Pentacon) until the reunification. Socialism somehow kept them
         | alive.
        
           | zatarc wrote:
           | No. Before WW2 "Mitteldeutschland" was an big and serious
           | industrial center.
        
           | AreYouSirius wrote:
           | They were doing great, YES, but that means if there were no
           | Russian influence, they would have industry on par with
           | Taiwan, now.
        
           | analognoise wrote:
           | I thought they were "kept alive" because they weren't
           | competing with Western devices; once the wall fell it was
           | pretty clear how far behind they were, and they were quickly
           | bought/dismantled as they weren't competitive.
           | 
           | I couldn't find any good details/stories about them though,
           | or the industry during that time. I wonder if someone will
           | chime in with a good source, it sounds like an interesting
           | time to read about.
        
             | cryo wrote:
             | You may look up the already mentioned Robotron, or
             | Messelektronik. Further Zentrallaboratorium fur Rundfunk-
             | und Fernsehempfangstechnik (ZRF). The history of Manfred
             | von Ardenne is interesting as well (first electronic
             | television 1931, but also helping sowjet a-bomb).
        
         | jupp0r wrote:
         | On the other hand, there's also a deep suspicion towards
         | foreigners and some of the most right-wing sentiments you will
         | find anywhere in Germany. I literally witnessed some Indian-
         | American colleagues of mine being physically assaulted because
         | they had non-white skin color and were walking down the street.
         | This in combination with the already existing labor shortages
         | severely limit the region's potential.
         | 
         | Source: I lived and worked in Dresden for a decade.
        
           | lnsru wrote:
           | I double on this. Colleague from Philippines was spited on in
           | Neustadt during normal walk in the evening. I had a car with
           | foreign plates for a while and it was scratched on both
           | sides. Coincidence? It was first and last time my car was
           | intentionally scratched.
        
           | tormeh wrote:
           | It's quite sad, but it is what it is. If you're not white you
           | shouldn't stay there for long. Particularly not at night or
           | whenever there's a football match. It's gotta be hard for
           | such a place to compete with more cosmopolitan regions,
           | particularly with Germany's demographics. If Dresden can't
           | attract immigrants then its semiconductor industry will have
           | to move elsewhere as ethnic Germans retire.
           | 
           | EDIT: I don't mean to say you can't live there. It's not a
           | war zone. But it's a rough place.
        
           | eastendguy wrote:
           | This is big problem. Without (more) PoC living in this area,
           | nothing improves.
           | 
           | But would I recommend a PoC friend to live in Dresden? Not
           | really, I would rather advise him to look for a job in Berlin
           | or Frankfurt.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | The problem with Eastern Germany and Dresden in particular is
         | that there is a _solid_ 20-25% voter block for outright
         | fascists, and the nominal  "conservatives" and "free-market
         | liberals" often enough aren't better at all - way over half the
         | population is anything from hardcore Conservative to "would
         | love to see politicians on gallows"-Nazi. On top of that
         | Dresden has the only PEGIDA (bunch of Nazis that started
         | protesting against refugees in 2014/15) group that is still
         | running bi-weekly (the rest of 'em stopped over the years, with
         | Munich's only collapsing due to Covid), which was already seen
         | as a bad economic warn sign in 2016 [0], _and_ the Eastern
         | German states have the lowest vaccination rates by far.
         | 
         | Eastern Germany has a lot of very nice places, but hell no I'd
         | never ever move there, especially not if you're a foreigner.
         | The risk of everyday violence against anything the far-right
         | percieves as "immigrant" is just too high.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.br.de/nachricht/pegida-schadet-dresden-100.html
        
           | jansan wrote:
           | I have been living in East Germany for the last 15 years. My
           | wife is Bulgarian (is that "foreign" enough for you?) and she
           | never had any issues with anybody being anti-immigrant or
           | racist towards her.
        
             | martin_a wrote:
             | She's probably looking pretty normal/like a German, no
             | problems then.
        
             | tucosan wrote:
             | Lol. This comment is just oozing of naivete.
        
             | eastendguy wrote:
             | Nazis only care about skin color. You could be from Mars -
             | as long as you are white, all is ok.
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | > Nazis only care about skin color.
               | 
               | The Nazis were anti-semetic. Most German Jewish people
               | were white.
        
           | pvorb wrote:
           | Yep. I almost laughed when I read this sentence:
           | 
           | > It is definitely not a punishment to live, work or study
           | here.
           | 
           | It might indeed be not a punishment if you're white, but you
           | might be embarrassed about the political beliefs of your
           | neighbors.
        
             | tucosan wrote:
             | Believe me, even as a white person I would consider living
             | in Dresden a nightmare.
        
           | mathverse wrote:
           | The problem with this sentiment lies in West germany where
           | West germans always looked down on East germans. They were
           | slightly better than eastern europeans so to say. Well at
           | least they spoke german right?
           | 
           | West germany sucked dry East germany of their young and
           | ambitious and used them for cheap labor. Well it was not
           | really that unexpected.
           | 
           | You cant expect people to develop in all aspects as they have
           | vastly different experiences and probably had different
           | upbringing than you.
           | 
           | Btw east germans are way less racist and xenophobic towards
           | their fellow Europeans from East Europe compared to West
           | Germans.
           | 
           | Anecdotal evidence but i have seen it too many times to
           | dismiss it.
        
           | rndgermandude wrote:
           | Calling the AfD voter block "outright facists" is not
           | helpful. Yeah, there is sadly plenty of people in there
           | deserving of that description. And yeah, the danger the AfD
           | poses should not be downplayed, nor should the danger of
           | PEGIDA be downplayed.
           | 
           | But study after study, survey after survey has shown that
           | most of the voter block of the AfD are not "outright
           | fascists" but people disillusioned by the establishment
           | parties who then fall prey to the the less extremist public
           | messaging the AfD likes to do. These people aren't fascists',
           | they aren't nazis, and constantly calling them names will
           | certainly not help, but drive them even more towards the AfD.
           | 
           | So please, I implore you to tone down your hyperbole. Where
           | this kind of "basket of deplorables" rhetoric eventually
           | leads we can all watch with horror.
        
         | tucosan wrote:
         | Even as a native German I find Saxony and Thuringia two of the
         | most unattractive places in Germany. I would never ever
         | consider to relocate - even if I would find great job
         | opportunities (which don't really exists apart from a few
         | exceptions). Why: Dresden, Rostock, Halle etc. are the most
         | racist, culturally and intellectually backwards places in all
         | of Germany. We call the area around Dresden "the valley of the
         | clueless" for a reason.
        
           | blueflow wrote:
           | Its "the valley of the clueless" because west TV could not be
           | received for geographical reasons.
        
         | rurban wrote:
         | We still have a great and advanced industry and craftsmanship.
        
       | AreYouSirius wrote:
       | WHY ? Is that series called : "On the road with the 9 euro
       | ticket." ????
       | 
       | That is second most important thing in whole article after main
       | subject. Atleast should be for Americans.
        
         | giuliomagnifico wrote:
         | Oh sorry, here in Europe we know about this (great) initiative
         | by Germany to contrast the gas prices crisis
        
         | mqus wrote:
         | Isn't this explained in the very first paragraph?
         | 
         | > In Germany this summer, you can travel on regional public
         | transport for 9 euros per month. Innovation Origins is seizing
         | this opportunity to visit a number of future-proof projects. In
         | this edition, we travel to Dresden.
        
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       (page generated 2022-08-22 23:00 UTC)