[HN Gopher] The Futures of Inform
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The Futures of Inform
Author : skybrian
Score : 42 points
Date : 2022-08-23 20:49 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (ganelson.github.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (ganelson.github.io)
| ianbicking wrote:
| I'm a little surprised that while using language models for
| generating text is suggested, there's no suggestion at using
| other ways to parse input. It feels like there is some much more
| advanced technology here that could be put to use.
|
| There's a certain danger to letting the AI "find" the answer,
| that is you are trying to find an overlap between what the user
| entered and the options that are available in a situation, and
| since the program can enumerate the options it might find
| solutions that the user didn't _really_ identify. But if you are
| comfortable with a game that might err on the side of being
| easy... at least I would prefer that, as I tend to find IF too
| frustrating to play because it's like I'm trying to get in the
| author's head and figure out what they want me to type.
|
| It would be interesting to think about how GPT-3/etc can be used
| to generate stable non-hallucinatory descriptions. It could solve
| some of the combinatorial problems of state and generating
| descriptions, and perhaps even raise interesting and unplanned
| events. But to do that you'd almost have to parse the results and
| then incorporate them into the world (or reject the results and
| regenerate). That's... actually how a lot of Inform works, so
| maybe it's a real option? It seems particularly interesting for
| NPCs, where perhaps you could use a language model for responding
| but _also_ allow for the model to suggestion NPC actions. By
| parsing them similar to how you parse player input you can keep
| the NPCs from being able to do impossible things (a big problem
| in AI Dungeon) but allow them to attempt actions. Then inform
| becomes the stable model of the world in which both players and
| bots are doing things. (This idea actually has me kind of
| excited...)
| Karrot_Kream wrote:
| In the IF genre, how popular is Inform? Is it used to write most
| games? Some? Just curious as I enjoy the occasional IF game.
| atemerev wrote:
| Inform 7 is a work of art, and a true inspiration for all
| programming language designers and writers.
| agiacalone wrote:
| I use Inform 7 as the very first case study language for a class
| I teach in programming language design theory for a uni CS
| program.
|
| * It's very well documented. The entire compiler design and
| language grammar is detailed to near text-book standards.
|
| * It's a language that none of my students have ever heard of
| before
|
| * The syntax of the language is an English-like syntax which
| weirdly trips up most CS students the first time they see it
|
| * It's a great example of a language used for specialty purposes.
| No kitchen-sink language here.
|
| Students at first hate it...but many have told me later that they
| really like coding an IF game using Inform 7 once they get the
| hang of it.
| runnerup wrote:
| Thanks for the unique perspective!
|
| What's an IF game? Very difficult to search that; Google
| prioritizes matches containing the English word 'if'.
| rprospero wrote:
| Interactive Fiction
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Note well that people who enjoy Interactive Fiction (what
| we used to call "text adventures") ought to be the most
| likely people to forgive the fact that a pseudo-natural
| language interface is, in fact, much pickier with regard to
| accepted input than actual natural language. (what we used
| to call tolerance for "guess the verb")
| [deleted]
| qznc wrote:
| Here is a reasonable starting point:
| https://ifcomp.org/about/if
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| An example of the syntax, from a version of Dijkstra's
| algorithm[0]: The current node is a node that
| varies. A node can be found, examined, or unreached.
| A node has a number called the total distance.
| Definition: a node is near if its total distance is 10 or less.
| Following relates various nodes to one node (called the
| precedent). The verb to follow (he follows, they
| follow, he followed, it is followed, he is following) implies
| the following relation.
|
| [0]
| https://literateprograms.org/dijkstra_s_algorithm__inform_7_...
| vanderZwan wrote:
| > _Students at first hate it...but many have told me later that
| they really like coding an IF game using Inform 7 once they get
| the hang of it._
|
| A sign you're pushing them out of their comfort zones. Probably
| one of the bigger gifts a teacher can give their students
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