[HN Gopher] NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with P...
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NumWorks: An open-source graphing calculator (with Python and Rust
support)
Author : semenko
Score : 64 points
Date : 2022-08-26 17:41 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.numworks.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.numworks.com)
| geophertz wrote:
| These calculators are very popular in France.
|
| I know of a lot of teachers who use them for teaching.
| josephcsible wrote:
| NumWorks is not open source.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28344087
| semenko wrote:
| I just stumbled upon NumWorks and was excited to see some
| competition for TI's calculator monopoly [1].
|
| It looks like NumWorks is open source (including the hardware)
| [2] and supports Python and Rust! [3]
|
| [1] https://gen.medium.com/big-calculator-how-texas-
| instruments-...
|
| [2] https://www.numworks.com/resources/engineering/
|
| [3] https://github.com/numworks/epsilon-sample-app-rust
| jpbadan wrote:
| Unfortunately It seems it's not open source anymore
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JSxBn_gxWXA
| belthesar wrote:
| That's a gross oversimplification. From the video the poster
| provided:
|
| * V16 of the Epsilon OS by Numworks removed the ability to
| install custom operating systems to the device in response to
| pressure from the Dutch education department, who had adopted
| the calculator as the standard for their education system.
| This was due to information provided by a different Youtuber
| accusing the platform of being used for cheating, and then
| provided modified versions of the OS that enabled cheating
| support by working around the Exam Mode functions.
|
| A fair and true statement would be that the NumWorks
| calculator was originally marketed as open hardware, and that
| functionality was removed (similar to Sony removing OtherOS
| from PS3's).
| josephcsible wrote:
| It's tivoized hardware running closed-but-visible-source
| software. It's not an oversimplification at all to say it's
| not open source.
| agumonkey wrote:
| i wish to make a toy version of that on an esp32, with a RPL
| system on top (of course)
| bb88 wrote:
| I have one. It's great. It's quite an amazing bit of tech.
|
| I wish they would split out the market, though, one for the
| educational market for tests and the like, and one for the
| professionals with wireless and more open capabilities.
|
| I would like for instance to ship images of graphs to use in a
| web page. Or to use it as a keyboard to type equations and
| calculations into documents. Or to have it connect to PyPI say to
| grab programs that can calculate complex equations.... etc.
| charles_kaw wrote:
| I have long believed that there is a huge market for some sort
| of rudimentary TI-style CAS system, with a caveat. Something
| that works on embedded arm devices, but is screen aware enough
| to be ported to a desktop.
|
| If you include bluetooth in your calculator hardware, you now
| have an excellent input device for an onscreen CAS - or maybe
| something more like a screencast.
|
| Extend this concept far enough, and we're talking about
| something like OP is describing - easy to sync and share small
| programs and tools. Further integration with excel and other
| tabulated data sources, and you've got a real killer on your
| hands.
| satiric wrote:
| I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly open
| source calculator. The problem is getting the calculator
| registered for exams - the examiners naturally want to make sure
| that the calculator isn't being used for cheating. And any method
| to replace the firmware, add custom applications, etc. can and
| should be viewed as a way to cheat on exams.
|
| Personally, I'm hopefully never going to take another
| standardized exam in my life - I'd like to see a graphing
| calculator that _doesn 't_ attempt to get certified for exams or
| school use, since this seems to be such a significant hurdle. But
| I know I'm in the 0.1% of graphing calculator users who don't
| care about AP/IB/the SAT/whatever.
| nsajko wrote:
| > I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly
| open source calculator.
|
| Somewhat like Google legitimately wants to "do no evil"?
|
| Sometimes it is said that deeds, not words is what matters. But
| in this case even the _words_ are missing, so I don 't really
| get what you're trying to say.
| satiric wrote:
| My point is that ultimately it was more important for them to
| make a calculator that students could actually use - which is
| a perfectly reasonable goal. And it's a shame that that's
| fundamentally incompatible with FOSS.
| josephcsible wrote:
| > I think the creators do legitimately want to build a truly
| open source calculator.
|
| Then making one that wasn't certified for exams is exactly what
| they should have done. As it stands, they're just another TI.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > Then making one that wasn't certified for exams is exactly
| what they should have done. As it stands, they're just
| another TI.
|
| I don't think "just another TI" should be undervalued--I
| remember how exciting their calculators were in my youth, and
| now they're, well, there's an XKCD for that
| (https://xkcd.com/768). Some competition that would get them
| back to make a real investment in innovation would be very
| welcome, even if it didn't result in an open-source
| calculator.
| jedisct1 wrote:
| It doesn't support Rust at all.
|
| There's just a GitHub repository with a toy example in Rust, that
| uses nothing but direct unsafe calls to five C functions.
|
| But Python, yeah, definitely. That's the beauty of this
| calculator.
| nsajko wrote:
| > But Python, yeah, definitely.
|
| Well, it's a forked MicroPython. It doesn't actually support
| Python, just something similar to Python.
| nsajko wrote:
| Mods, please correct the editorialized and wrong title. NumWorks
| isn't open source and never was.
|
| What it is is _source-available_ , because the source is
| available. Or at least it still was available the last time I
| looked at it.
|
| NumWorks used to be fun because it had an unlocked bootloader,
| allowing users to download their own software onto the
| calculator. But then they did a face-heel turn.
|
| To NumWorks' credit, I'm sure the UI is still miles ahead of
| Texas Instruments calculators.
|
| EDIT: it seems NumWorks now allows users to download "apps" onto
| their devices. This is nice, of course, but still a far cry from
| the unlocked bootloader situation.
| rpdillon wrote:
| I've engaged in debates on HN about the definition of "open
| source" in the past, so there might be some disagreement about
| the meaning of the title.
|
| I've settled on using "OSI open source" to avoid this, since
| those discussions are uniformly tiring and unproductive.
|
| That said, I agree with parent: the repo specifically has a
| section regarding copyright and it simply says that all rights
| are reserved[0]. This is proprietary software, disallowing
| copying, distribution, and derivative works. It's weird, since
| even cloning the repo appears to be a violation of their stated
| terms, though they supply instructions for building the
| software yourself that of course requires copying the code to
| your machine first[1].
|
| Copyright is weird.
|
| [0]: https://github.com/numworks/epsilon#copyright
|
| [1]:
| https://www.numworks.com/resources/engineering/software/buil...
|
| Edit: Figured it out. License was changed 13 months ago:
| https://github.com/numworks/epsilon/commit/b1ea81f067f5fef3f...
| CrazedGeek wrote:
| There's a forked version of the OS called Omega that's really
| nice: https://github.com/Omega-Numworks/Omega
|
| And apparently a jailbreak for Epsilon 16+:
| https://phi.getomega.dev/
| homarp wrote:
| and a symbolic algebra system for Omega, https://www-
| fourier.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr/~parisse/numworks...
|
| (it's a port/adaptation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xcas )
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(page generated 2022-08-26 23:00 UTC)