[HN Gopher] We Are All Nerds: The Literary Works of Neal Stephenson
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       We Are All Nerds: The Literary Works of Neal Stephenson
        
       Author : Topolomancer
       Score  : 164 points
       Date   : 2022-08-28 16:52 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (bastian.rieck.me)
        
       | ttepasse wrote:
       | > Stephenson's worlds are not populated predominantly by
       | Heinleinian larger-than-life characters than can do anything ...
       | 
       | Funnily enough I have in Stephenson's more recent books the
       | contrary impression. The last near future books read more like a
       | love letter to billionaires, all that seems missing is the long
       | flowery dedication to patrons like authors did it in the 1700s.
       | Maybe twenty years ago I was to young or blind to register it but
       | modern Stephenson has just with this trope put himself from my
       | must-read into the meh/maybe category.
       | 
       | (Contrapoint: I can see a structural need for billionaires in his
       | storytelling: He needs a source of financing for the fictional
       | projects. But somehow Stephenson seems to be to unimaginative as
       | to consider other means of realization than the magic
       | billionaire.)
        
       | cantSpellSober wrote:
       | Anyone successfully convert their "I'm not into sci-fi" friend
       | into a Stephenson fan? If so, with what book?
       | 
       | (Having read em all, I would _not_ recommend _Fall; Or Dodge in
       | Hell_ as an entrypoint)
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Snow Crash is maybe the most accessible. And, while one of his
         | older books, the association with the metaverse, etc. makes it
         | rather timely.
        
         | cl42 wrote:
         | Diamond Age has been a hit with a lot of my friends, even ones
         | not into scifi.
         | 
         | Agree with you re _Fall_. Terrible book.
        
           | the__alchemist wrote:
           | I thought Fall was outstanding; the apes, MOAB, and Ameristan
           | parts were remarkably relevant, and the last part was fun.
        
             | cl42 wrote:
             | I think the concepts were pretty neat, I agree. However, it
             | felt like two books in one. I will admit that I'm not a
             | fantasy reader -- aside from LOTR, I'm not a big fan of the
             | genre. Spending so much time on that was just not
             | interesting to me. If that entire section was missing, the
             | book would've been extremely compelling.
             | 
             | But to each their own! :)
        
               | aoanla wrote:
               | This seems to be a thing that Stephenson likes: The
               | Diamond Age has apparently deliberate significant changes
               | in style and genre across it, Cryptonomicon is part very-
               | near-future tech thriller and part-1940s spy thriller,
               | Seveneves (as noted elsewhere here) has a big genre
               | change some way through, and arguably The Rise and Fall
               | of D.O.D.O also blends a few different genres together,
               | some of them historical. He's certainly more egregious
               | about it in Fall, but it's something he obviously likes
               | doing...
        
             | roughly wrote:
             | I really liked everything about Fall except the main plot.
             | The Ameristan parts felt almost prophetic - that's the book
             | I wanted to read.
        
         | zxexz wrote:
         | I've leant my copy of Cryptonomicon to many people who went on
         | to read his other books.
        
         | Ono-Sendai wrote:
         | Snow crash
        
         | nocoiner wrote:
         | I've had good luck on that with Diamond Age, but I feel the
         | need to couple that with a strident warning about how
         | incredibly unsatisfying the ending is (which to me is a
         | recurring thing with his books).
         | 
         | I disliked Fall intensely. I either didn't finish it, or
         | skimmed the last third of it or so just to try to get a sense
         | of what happened. I think I did finish it, but only because I
         | was on vacation and had nothing else to read by the pool.
        
         | jojoo wrote:
         | For educators i always suggest "The Diamond Age". In the last
         | few years, AI has just catched up enough for non-tech people to
         | take it serious.
         | 
         | I really liked the first half of Fall; Or Dodge in Hell. But it
         | has been the only Stephenson book where i needed discipline not
         | to get enough sleep, but to get through the second half.
        
         | lelandbatey wrote:
         | Agree, "Fall" is not one of the more accessible of his works
         | IMO. Neither Anathem, even though it's my favorite of his
         | books. I feel like if Neal Stephenson wanted to write a DND
         | campaign, he'd revolutionize that niche with his incredible
         | world building and excellently pervasive themes.
        
         | haroldl wrote:
         | I feel that his novels are becoming more and more mainstream
         | friendly, and Termination Shock is my suggestion. The world is
         | very similar to our own, set in the near future (versus The
         | Diamond Age) of our planet (versus Anathem) and is very
         | relatable.
         | 
         | My other suggestions would be REAMDE for people who are into
         | action movies or spy novels, or the first half of Seveneves for
         | space nerds.
        
           | lb1lf wrote:
           | I think they are becoming more mainstream friendly as, well,
           | the world has caught up with him, more or less - I find he's
           | a master at grasping what technologies will explode into the
           | mainstream a few years early, then spin a wonderful yarn
           | around that.
           | 
           | Cryptonomicon, REAMDE (to some extent) and The Diamond Age
           | seemed really future-y when released - but now, their basic
           | concepts are all over the media and on people's minds.
        
             | nibbleshifter wrote:
             | REAMDE came out a very short time before awareness of
             | ransomware went from "a handful of people in the hacker
             | world" to "infosec industry starts becoming aware of it".
             | 
             | To more than a few people, it seemed very prescient.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Reamde is much more thriller than SF. My big objection to it
           | is that it was one of those novels where if everything didn't
           | fall right into place again and again, there wouldn't be a
           | story.
        
         | sidibe wrote:
         | Anathem if you can convince them the to stick through the
         | beginning and learn the words.
         | 
         | Absolutely not Cryptonomicon unless you're sure they're
         | libertarian and male. I reread this recently and I think it
         | aged very poorly for women and liberals because what was once a
         | quirky set of characters in the modern part of the story are
         | now a widespread and polarizing demographic today (our free
         | thinking hero has to deal with some very exaggerated wokeness,
         | and spends a few pages explaining that women aren't as obsessed
         | with tech because they're so good at everything else).
         | 
         | This is not the author to start people who aren't into sci-fi
         | on though. I really love some of his books but I think anyone
         | who can get through one of them is probably already a sci-fi
         | fan. There's more immediately fun books that people can get
         | hooked on like Vinge and Brin or more literary and less tech-
         | describing stuff like Ursula le Guin that appeal to wider
         | audiences and from which they can look for other books with the
         | same themes
        
           | nibbleshifter wrote:
           | Neal is _terrible_ at writing female characters, which is
           | probably at its most obvious in Cryptonomicon.
        
             | Barrin92 wrote:
             | he's gotten better at it. I really don't like his more tech
             | bro-ish books but I liked Reamde a lot, which features a
             | pretty good set of characters.
        
           | notahacker wrote:
           | Stephenson's take on e-gold might offend some libertarians
           | too! In all seriousness, as I recall it the weirdness about
           | women was mostly in-character views of nerds whose perception
           | of the wider world isn't necessarily supposed to be that
           | reliable, and the male-dominated cast actually makes sense in
           | context. There are other Stephenson books more likely to
           | annoy people in terms of gender roles and digressions about
           | liberals and universities...
           | 
           | But yeah, Stephenson isn't the author to start non-sci fans
           | on (though Vonnegut fans might love Cryptonomicon and spot an
           | influence or two). Atwood's Oryx and Crake is probably my
           | answer to that, since it's classic near future sci fi
           | disguised as literature. The first book is all about near
           | future society and the implications of plausible tech, she
           | just writes about the _people_ in it and doesn 't waste words
           | describing the details of stuff they wouldn't know or how it
           | actually works. And the subsequent books are _cliche-trope
           | heavy_ dystopic sci-fi and still probably doesn 't feel that
           | way to people who tend to avoid that stuff.
        
         | harrisonhope wrote:
         | I really enjoyed Zodiac. It's reads like a thriller novel but
         | it's a little more grounded and less weird than Snow Crash. I
         | think it's a good entry point for Stephenson novels.
        
           | yetanotherloser wrote:
           | The first half or so of Snow Crash is a great entry point if
           | the recipient already read some cyberpunk and thought "this
           | has something interesting but also has a stick up its arse,
           | it's about time someone ripped the piss out of it" - and I
           | say this as a fan of Gibsonian prose excess.
           | 
           | The only problem is this puts the recipient in a too-cynical,
           | too-stylistically-demanding mode for the rest of Stephenson.
           | 
           | - Posted on my Ono-Sendai Rig, from some kind of Zone, while
           | experiencing Hacker News as some kind of geometric
           | hallucination, under a sky the colour of a television
           | switched off...
        
           | notahacker wrote:
           | Zodiac is the easy introduction because it's the least _Neal
           | Stephenson_ book of the lot: short, minimal infodumps and
           | tangents, and it really doesn 't get much nerdier than the
           | protagonist being a chemist [as well as a wetsuit-wearing
           | crime fighter] or much weirder than there being a metal band
           | in there because Stephenson wanted there to be a metal band.
        
       | pmdulaney wrote:
       | This is a curated (or annotated) list of Neal Stephenson's scifi
       | novels. Very helpful if you're trying to decide which of his
       | books to start with.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | It's interesting that it simply leaves out:
         | 
         | The Big U
         | 
         | - About 7/5 on the weirdness scale of the other books. It was
         | out of print for quite a while. Strange things happen at a
         | thinly disguised Boston University. The Citgo sign becomes The
         | Big Red Wheel.
         | 
         | Zodiac
         | 
         | - About 1/5 on the weirdness scale, except for the protagonist
         | himself, who is about a 3/5. Modern thriller about pollution in
         | Boston Harbor.
         | 
         | Interface
         | 
         | - About a 2/5 weirdness: a candidate runs for US President,
         | aided by a direct brain interface that feeds immediate polling
         | results and media reactions.
        
           | mpettitt wrote:
           | Was going to mention Interface! It's very much Cambridge
           | Analytica vibes - you feel that there are teams as described
           | doing pretty much the same things, just without the direct
           | brain interface.
           | 
           | Personally, I think Anathem is the best of his works,
           | although I enjoyed DODO - the sequel, which he wasn't
           | directly involved with was less good though.
        
       | jabl wrote:
       | I really loved the Baroque cycle; Is there any other author that
       | writes similar stuff?
       | 
       | I've liked other Stephenson novels I've read (Cryptonomicon and
       | Diamond age), but to be honest they haven't been the mind blowing
       | experience of the Baroque cycle.
       | 
       | I'm planning to read Anathem and Termination Shock in the
       | hopefully not too far future, but we'll see.
        
         | jimmygrapes wrote:
         | Not quite at the same scale, but Dan Simmons writes some pretty
         | great alternate/fictionalized history that tend to be pretty
         | lengthy (if that's your thing). I particularly enjoyed Drood
         | and The Terror (from which the TV series was adapted), and
         | Black Hills is pretty nice as well. He also did Hyperion Cantos
         | and the Ilium/Olympos series if you're more into s-f.
        
       | cl42 wrote:
       | A bit random, but I always think about how _Seveneves_ could be a
       | fantastic RPG.
        
         | sprkwd wrote:
         | I'm (very slowly) writing a video game mostly based on this
         | book.
        
           | cl42 wrote:
           | I'd love to learn more!
        
           | tryauuum wrote:
           | yeah, sign me up as well, email is nick @gmail.com
        
       | balentio wrote:
       | I'm probably in the minority opinion here, but I'd say his newer
       | work is in some ways less inventive than his older work. I think
       | a lot of it boils down to being around silicon valley weirdos for
       | too long wherein the books take on themes the extremely wealthy
       | technocrats are actually trying to accomplish. It goes from being
       | Sci-Fi to Sci-we-really-are-doing-this.
        
         | decebalus1 wrote:
         | I agree with you. Avid Stephenson fan, I read all of his works
         | but 'The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O.' was the last novel I
         | actually enjoyed..
        
         | wolfram74 wrote:
         | I read Termination Shock and was pretty let down when it seemed
         | like the innovative new social dynamic to resolve climate
         | change was monarchy. It was a fun enough read, but I don't
         | think I'll revisit it like I do with Cryptonomicon or Anathem.
        
       | labrador wrote:
       | I wish I could get the time back in invested in reading
       | "Cryptonomicon." I had high hopes after "Snow Crash", but they
       | never materialized. It's my fault: I knew I should have quit
       | after the author indulged himself by going on about his furniture
       | sorting algorithm. Inexcusable in a book over a 1000 pages long.
       | 
       | "What is your favorite rambling, tangential aside from a Neal
       | Stephenson novel and why?"
       | 
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/362bej/what_is_you...
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I consider the entire bit about Sumerian history in _Snow
         | Crash_ to be an unnecessary aside.
         | 
         | I actually really enjoyed _Cryptonomicon_. For it being a long
         | book, I thought it moved pretty good.
        
         | jameshart wrote:
         | It's not _the author 's_ furniture sorting algorithm. It's _the
         | Waterhouse family 's_. It tells us a considerable amount about
         | the Waterhouse family's particular dysfunctions, and the
         | various Shaftoes' ability to tolerate, or slot into supporting
         | roles around that, and in particular it digs deeply into the
         | conflicts that arise between hyperrational people who think 'we
         | can build an algorithm that will permit a fair and equitable
         | distribution of wealth' and the reality of people who _will
         | abuse the properties of that algorithm to make sure they get
         | what they want_.
         | 
         | If you think that was an irrelevant aside to the rest of the
         | book's themes, I dunno what to tell you.
        
           | labrador wrote:
           | Snow Crash appears on at lists of the best Science Fiction
           | books of all time, while Cryptonomicon is in no danger of
           | appearing on any list of favorite Science Fiction books.
           | Cryptonomicon is 25 times less popular than Snow Crash on
           | Amazon (rank #6,737 vs #153,999) and no one on reddit
           | challenged the assertion that Stephenson sometimes writes
           | "rambling, tangential asides." I prefer my Science Fiction
           | books have a good story, not teach me about math and game
           | theory. There are better books for that. If you liked
           | Cryptonomicon, congratulations, you have the same taste as
           | the author. I stand by my disappointment going from Snow
           | Crash to Cryptonomicon.
        
       | the__alchemist wrote:
       | Stephenson is by far my favorite fiction author. His style of
       | sci-fi is what draws me to the genre: It's filled with on-the-
       | edge-of-plausibility concepts that makes me wonder "What if we
       | could do that", or gets me hacking on a project. The only other
       | sci-fi I've found on his level have been the Children of Time
       | books.
       | 
       | I've read them all except Reamde, and found Termination Shock to
       | be the tamest, so perhaps if you're new to Stephenson, don't
       | start there.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | Even though Termination Shock wasn't super out there, I thought
         | it's better than a lot of his book wrt characterization (even
         | if there were a few moments that didn't work for me)
        
       | skybrian wrote:
       | Not mentioned but somewhat related: _The Mongoliad_ series, for
       | which Stephenson is one of the co-authors. (It 's a collective
       | work that came out of a failed startup; it's complicated.)
       | 
       | This is historical fiction and it's very long, but I found it
       | interesting. You might say it arose in part out of Stephenson's
       | interest how historical fighting might have actually worked.
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/The-Mongoliad-Series-5-book-series/dp...
        
       | lb1lf wrote:
       | Much as I love Neal Stephenson's novels, I really wish he'd
       | stayed around at the writer's class he surely took until they had
       | learned how to wrap up books and write endings; more often than
       | not, I turn the page on a Stephenson novel only to find it was
       | the last...
       | 
       | (While I exaggerate a little, his stories do not end as much as
       | END - I would be thrilled if he could spend a few pages wrapping
       | it up in the end before leaving us waiting for the next title...)
       | 
       | The yarns he constructs are definitely entertaining enough for me
       | to cope with this very minor annoyance, though.
        
         | narrator wrote:
         | Besides his endings, his couples intimacy scenes are also
         | absolutely awful and the women can be cartoonish. He makes up
         | for everything with his worldbuilding skill though. Authors
         | lean heavily on the parts of writing they're good at. For
         | example, I've been reading Asimov's foundation, and he almost
         | ignores characterization and describing any of the locations in
         | the book. The whole thing revolves around the plot.
        
           | rvbissell wrote:
           | [Stephenson] To this very day, I still cannot purge the
           | phrase "imperial pint of semen" from my brain.
        
           | epberry wrote:
           | Good observation. I wonder if this is a reason the TV
           | adaptations have been tough. Plot seems best enjoyed in
           | written form whereas world building shines on screen.
        
           | mgarfias wrote:
           | I _HATED_ Foundation as a kid. Only now do I realize that
           | Asimov basically wrote a history book.
        
         | alibrarydweller wrote:
         | I think in the last decade or so he certainly learned how to
         | end (REAMDE had like 90 pages of climax) but I'm not sure the
         | reader is actually better off for it. Seveneves denouement is
         | almost its own book with its own characters and the end of Fall
         | and Termination Shock just left me wanting to know the next
         | development in their respective worlds.
        
         | John23832 wrote:
         | LOL man I was looking for this comment. I cannot upvote this
         | enough.
         | 
         | He needs to cowrite something with Andy Weir. One can start,
         | they collaborate on the middle, and then the other finishes.
        
           | isoprophlex wrote:
           | Fantastic idea, but PLEASE let Weir be the one to finish!
        
         | stuartbman wrote:
         | Came here to say this. Both Seveneves and Fall have long
         | unending psuedo-epilogues which add little to the main story,
         | but also don't really wrap anything up satisfactorily either.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | My issue with Seveneves is the first part (two parts I guess)
           | was a pretty first-rate thriller then hard to believe
           | transition to equally unlikely and not very interesting IMO
           | outcomes which, as you say, weren't really wrapped up either.
        
             | aoanla wrote:
             | I think the disconnect here is that I get the impression he
             | wrote the entire first part just to justify writing his "SF
             | with multiple humanoid species that all have 'hats' but
             | there's a good reason for it" story which forms the second
             | part. (Part of the problem being that... there's really not
             | a good reason for it - Stephenson's grasp of biology is
             | much worse than his grasp of computing technology.)
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Oh I pretty much agree. There's a good argument that the
               | whole first part of the book was to get him to a point
               | where he could right the story he wanted to write. But,
               | if so, there were probably better ways of getting to that
               | point.
               | 
               | And, even if you accept how they got there, the last part
               | of the book just wasn't very compelling for me.
        
             | usrusr wrote:
             | I kind of liked how openly seveneves seemed to be about
             | building some fantasy world for storie _s_ (or perhaps even
             | for some video game or p &p rpg, with a number of clearly
             | cut out character classes?), then getting gloriously
             | sidetracked in the background explanation story and finally
             | accepting that the world just built isn't remotely as
             | interesting as that background explanation story. It's as
             | if at some point half way through he realized just _how_
             | much he was being  "typical Neil Stephenson" and decided to
             | go with it, to ten-up himself.
             | 
             | That last part almost seems like a form of trolling, the
             | smallest viable story to claim "I had you on a sidetrack
             | all the time and you did not even notice"
        
         | haroldl wrote:
         | It's clear he _can_ do it: the ending of Anathem ties up
         | everything very neatly and it is hard for me to imagine any
         | major events happening in the characters ' lifetimes that would
         | rival the plot arc they've been through.
        
           | majormajor wrote:
           | Anathem is one of his few books with a denoument. It's not
           | super long, but it's nice to have some scene hinting at where
           | things are going next after the main crisis is resolved.
        
           | MichaelCollins wrote:
           | I don't think Anathem had a good ending per-se; rather the
           | whole novel sets up a gimmick revealed at the end that
           | explains away the lack of a good ending.
           | 
           | It's still my favorite Stephenson novel though.
        
             | majormajor wrote:
             | I'm not sure "the whole novel sets up" and "gimmick" work
             | together there. :)
        
             | sdwr wrote:
             | Yeah, first half of Anathem was captivating, second half
             | went off the rails.
        
               | wizofaus wrote:
               | Going by the comments on this thread, it's hard to
               | believe everyone's talking about the same book... (which
               | I haven't read, and I'm now torn as to whether I should!)
        
               | sdwr wrote:
               | Yeah it's wild! Second-guessed myself a tiny bit after
               | seeing all the conflicting views.
               | 
               | Minor spoilers:
               | 
               | I loved the world-building and mystery in the first half,
               | the main character lives in a post-apoc monastary, tons
               | of great details and tidbits. It felt vibrant, deep,
               | reminded me of Redwall and the 5th Harry Potter, with the
               | sexual repression and small-scale rebellion against
               | authority.
               | 
               | He leaves the walls in the second half and stuff happens,
               | I forgot most of it. The journey part felt like an
               | afterthought. Something something aliens, really didn't
               | feel earned or connected.
        
           | lb1lf wrote:
           | That sounds great; I have had Anathem on my bookshelf for
           | years after life got in the way just after starting it; I had
           | planned to finally read it this fall. Your observation makes
           | me look forward to it even more, thank you!
        
             | dwater wrote:
             | I like about 2/3 of Stephenson's novels and Anathem took
             | some work for me to get into. It really gets moving several
             | hundred pages in and then the last 1/3 makes it all worth
             | it.
        
               | DIVx0 wrote:
               | It took me a few tries to get past the first 1/3rd of
               | Anathem but once I did, it became one of my all time
               | favorite books. Stephenson paints a rich rich world which
               | I have often thought about outside of the major plot
               | points of the book.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | It's one of those books where you have no idea what's
               | going on for the first chunk of the book--and probably
               | don't really realize what's fully going on until close to
               | the end. Reading a book in at least partial confusion can
               | be taxing and hard to hold interest. (Though I certainly
               | liked Anathem quite a bit overall.)
        
         | scbrg wrote:
         | Way, way back I ran into a comment on Slashdot saying
         | essentially:
         | 
         |  _Neal Stephenson doesn 't really do endings. At some point, he
         | just declares victory and stops writing._ (not an exact quote,
         | though the second sentence is probably very close to the
         | original)
         | 
         | I thought this was a hilarious observation, and shared it with
         | my coworkers. This then became our standard phrase when we
         | decided that a task wasn't really worth more development hours.
         | _So, should we spend another day polishing this, or do we just
         | declare victory?_
         | 
         | So thanks, random Slashdot poster 20 years ago, for
         | contributing to our company culture for a few years :)
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I've certainly run into "Let's just declare victory and move
           | on" in many different contexts. And it really is a pretty
           | good philosophy for many situations.
        
           | sidibe wrote:
           | The beginnings of his books are pretty difficult too, since
           | he just drops you into a world with its own vocabulary and
           | weirdness that takes forever to understand or in the case of
           | Seveneves does many hundreds of pages of infodump details on
           | how they build their space stuff. I guess the middle parts
           | and ideas of his books are usually a thrill enough to make it
           | worth the other parts.
        
         | sanderjd wrote:
         | I really felt this with Seveneves, which was otherwise one of
         | my favorites of his. That book (or series maybe...) was nowhere
         | close to over.
        
           | baggsie wrote:
           | One of my all time favourite books too.
           | 
           | I'd recommend 2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson if you've not read
           | it - it's in a similar vein / world to the third part of
           | Seveneves.
        
             | sanderjd wrote:
             | Thanks so much for the recommendation! I love Kim Stanley
             | Robinson - _Aurora_ and the _Red Mars_ series are some of
             | my all time favorite books - but have had trouble getting
             | into the one of his I 'm on right now ( _The Ministry for
             | the Future_ ). So I'm very pleased to get a different
             | recommendation.
        
       | JZL003 wrote:
       | I agree, I don't think diamond age gets enough interest. It's one
       | of my favorite books and the ending is unsatisfying but at least
       | upbeat. Seveneves is also tons of fun. And if you know anyone who
       | likes history, his older Baroque Cycle is pretty great
       | 
       | I haven't heard this in an interview or anything but I think now
       | Stephenson is older and successful enough, he just writes the
       | books exactly how he likes. Diamond age feels like he was
       | agonizing over every word to keep everything so short. But Fall,
       | and his newest book Termination Shock (which I also didn't like
       | most of) ,just feels like an author who likes writing. Both have
       | these amazing moments, which reminds me like a jazz musician,
       | where it's almost effortlessly insightful and funny. But with no
       | editing or second thoughts
        
         | JZL003 wrote:
         | Also for anyone who likes weird scifi, read Cory Doctorow's
         | Rapture of the nerds, it has an amazing audiobook and is just
         | fun and clever
        
           | cl42 wrote:
           | _Spoiler Alert_
           | 
           | The idea that rich people have access to more compute power
           | in the cloud, and can experience more compute cycles per
           | minute (and thus have more experiences in a metaverse!), is
           | exactly how I see a dystopian universe based on cloud
           | computing developing. When I read that part in the book, it
           | blew my mind.
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | The thing about the Diamond Age is the first half is a
         | brilliant book full of great ideas that seems to be set for a
         | complex and enthralling finale, and the second half is an
         | absolute mess that ruins the first half. Only book I can think
         | of comparable in that respect is Stranger in a Strange Land
         | (note to sci-fi authors: don't think you can tie the plot of
         | your killer high-concept idea together with the first thing
         | that comes to mind, especially not if the first thing that
         | comes to mind is the need to come up with creative reasons for
         | your characters to have orgies)
        
           | cainxinth wrote:
           | I sorta agree, but I also think one of the reasons that the
           | first part is stronger has something to do with the
           | protagonist's age. When she's just an innocent little girl,
           | you feel incredible tension every time she is threatened. As
           | she gets older and more capable, the danger doesn't connect
           | as viscerally to the reader (in my case anyway).
           | 
           | But, warts and all, still one of my favorite novels ever.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | Agree it's inevitable that it loses some tension and
             | sweetness (and the role of the all-important Primer), but
             | it's more that Stephenson just takes her in terrible
             | directions (she decides to work in a brothel dictating BDSM
             | fantasies, then she gets violated by rebels, then she
             | _unironically_ becomes the Victorian colonialist ideal of
             | the great White Leader the Chinese girls need) and the
             | others in even worse directions (disappear from the
             | narrative, die a pathos-free death, wake up after 12 years
             | of drug induced orgies and have no emotional reaction
             | whatsoever but a compelling need to wander into a pace-
             | killing subplot about a theatre). The plotting is clunky, I
             | 'm not sure the writing is as good despite a few nice
             | moments and the whole Drummers orgy-computer concept is
             | best reserved for another book, preferably unpublished.
        
               | aoanla wrote:
               | Yeah, I think the dissonance I fundamentally had with the
               | ending of The Diamond Age is that it seems to not have
               | any sense of irony (or any concept that, maybe, the Seed
               | _might_ not be the awful idea that his protagonists are
               | trying to sell us that it is, for example).
        
               | number6 wrote:
               | I can totally relate. Despite the shortcomings I love the
               | book; there are parts better to be forgotten though...
               | 
               | I secretly dream of a distributed republic.
        
               | notahacker wrote:
               | I secretly dream of discovering a second half of the book
               | I enjoyed as much as the first...
        
           | nixlim wrote:
           | This. Absolutely the feeling I had after reading both of them
        
           | jamestimmins wrote:
           | I accidentally purchased the "uncut" version of Stranger in a
           | Strange Land, which included 85,000 more words that were
           | edited out of the original release.
           | 
           | If ever there was a book that didn't need an extra 85,000
           | words...
        
             | number6 wrote:
             | I read Stranger in a Strange Land in my youth and it was
             | mind-blowing. The unnecessary Lewdness was nice in puberty
             | but looking back today it's more like a thing of its time
             | thing...
        
         | mordymoop wrote:
         | Diamond Age is the one I keep going back to and getting more
         | out of over the years.
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | Seveneves is all women protagonists, cannot get behind that
         | though I tried.
        
         | the__alchemist wrote:
         | Probably my favorite, edging the others out slightly... as you
         | might guess.
        
       | sedev wrote:
       | There's a Blood Knife article https://bloodknife.com/inadequacy-
       | of-inspirational-scifi/ critiquing Stephenson that makes an
       | interesting companion read to this. I have enjoyed Stephenson's
       | novels tremendously, but when OP says they're not "preachy," that
       | is rather a whopper -- particularly thinking of _Cryptonomicon,_
       | but _Termination Shock_ also digresses into it.
        
       | zuluonezero wrote:
       | The Baroque Cycle made me understand maths and the impact of the
       | 18th century renaissance on computing. It made me more curious to
       | learn algebraic concepts that I had neglected. Plus he wrote
       | those long books by hand with ink and a feather dip pen! It has a
       | kind of crazy genius stupidity to it that is serious and light at
       | the same time.
        
       | The_Colonel wrote:
       | My favorite Stephenson's novel is Anathem with superb world
       | building (as usual) but also a pretty good story and ending.
       | 
       | But it's also a book whose world (specifically the avout society)
       | attracts me. I've grown up in a Catholic setting, but "converted"
       | to atheism/agnosticism pretty early. But even with its many
       | failings, there are certain aspects of religions which seem worth
       | preserving - the focus on community, the rituals, a particular
       | rule framework, meditation (prayers) and introspection.
       | 
       | The book presents a (on a certain level) pretty attractive model
       | of society which combines the practical religious patterns with a
       | full rationalism.
       | 
       | I kind of understand why such "atheist religion" is unlikely to
       | get off in the real world, but it's still something I would wish
       | for.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | If anything the Avout are the scientists.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | Agreed. I think there is definitely a certain kind of person
         | who attaches to the idea of academic monks (myself included).
         | Especially the slower pace of life and limited pop culture
         | influences. I remember a few years ago someone on the Anathem
         | subreddit tried to live "cloistered" for a year- not totally
         | isolated, but intentionally avoiding media throughout the year,
         | then they listened to a few albums and watched the best
         | regarded movies.
        
         | oliwary wrote:
         | I agree! There is something very beautiful about people having
         | the time to just think and learn, without access to distracting
         | technology or practical concerns. I wonder what would happen if
         | this was a real pathway in society. I also wonder what were to
         | happen if driven individuals would take sabbaticals in places
         | like this - what kind of ideas would they come up with?
         | 
         | Superb book in any case, may pick it up again.
        
         | bradleyjg wrote:
         | Anathem is also my favorite, fairly easily.
         | 
         | I'm not surprised there are Cryptonomicon, Snow Crash, Diamond
         | Age, or Baroque Cycle favorite-rs but I am when I come across
         | someone that thought Seveneves or Dodge was his best.
        
           | noSyncCloud wrote:
           | I absolutely loved Seveneves; easily my second favorite. The
           | first part was too long and the second too short, however,
           | and it's obviously not as good as Anathem ;)
        
           | stuven wrote:
           | I've only read Seveneves to the end and was blown away (and
           | simultaneously a bit disappointed if that makes sense?). I've
           | started Cryptonomicon and Snow Crash but they didn't interest
           | me as much.
        
           | smogcutter wrote:
           | Same! I love Diamond Age and to a lesser extent
           | Cryptonomicon, but for my money Seveneves found him leaning
           | into his worst instincts.
           | 
           | At his best, Stephenson's love of oddball, hyper-focused
           | engineers leads him into in-depth explorations of niche
           | fields & communities. In Seveneves though it manifested as
           | boring Heinlein-esque heroic Mary Sue libertarian engineers
           | who are never wrong, while every other character is somewhere
           | on a spectrum of stupid to nefarious.
        
       | PBnFlash wrote:
       | Fall, dodge in hell has a super interesting take on post fact
       | reality.
       | 
       | Ai spam can get a lot crazier.
        
       | anubhav200 wrote:
       | Thanks, I was looking for exactly this only.
        
       | progre wrote:
       | Not even mentioned in the article, but a book I really like:
       | Zodiak
       | 
       | Not sf exactly, it's an "eco-thriller" but it has its fair share
       | of science. And it's a pretty good thriller.
        
       | jpm_sd wrote:
       | I reread Cryptonomicon every couple of years. It's so very 90s,
       | so very startup, I revel in it every time. It's delightfully
       | appealing and appalling
        
       | odiroot wrote:
       | I really loved Snow Crash. That's a perfect balance between
       | science fiction and reality, without crossing the cringe-
       | threshold. Really wish someone adapted it into a mini-series.
       | 
       | Encouraged by that lecture, I tried Cryptonomicon and liked it
       | even more. I then listened to the audio-book version read by
       | Stephenson himself. It's actually hilarious in this way.
       | 
       | REAMDE has actually been quite disappointing. I put it down after
       | 2 chapters (it crossed the cringe-threshold for me). Haven't
       | picked up any of Neal's books since.
        
       | mgarfias wrote:
       | Author here forgot The Big U and Zodiac. The writing wasn't as
       | polished as his later stuff, but still good stories. U's
       | weirdness rating would be a 5/5.
        
         | jameshart wrote:
         | And, since _D.O.D.O_ being included means we 're evidently
         | including collaborations, _The Interface_ , which reads as more
         | prescient of modern political discourse every year.
        
       | LiberationUnion wrote:
        
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