[HN Gopher] DALL*E: Introducing Outpainting ___________________________________________________________________ DALL*E: Introducing Outpainting Author : dannyw Score : 317 points Date : 2022-08-31 16:24 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (openai.com) (TXT) w3m dump (openai.com) | TekMol wrote: | Is it broken right now? Makes my fans spin but it never finishes. | rw2 wrote: | Does the new generated picture take into account of all | previously generated image or just whatever is around the square, | the first is amazing, the latter was a feature that was already | there. | | Regardless, this is a great way for people to fight the lack of | detail in Dall-E which I think is one of it's largest flaw. | aabhay wrote: | Just what's in the square I believe. The only difference here | is one of UI, since they give you a canvas in which to place | your generations. | woeirua wrote: | Meanwhile someone has already built a photoshop plugin for Stable | Diffusion that you can use today to do basically the _exact_ same | thing: | | https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/wyduk1/sho... | nabakin wrote: | Doesn't make sense to me why OpenAI has kept DALL-E closed | source for so long. I can only guess either safety from misuse | or leveraging it for money. At this rate though, Stable | Diffusion is going to dwarf it | adamsmith143 wrote: | >Doesn't make sense to me why OpenAI has kept DALL-E closed | source for so long. | | >leveraging it for money | visarga wrote: | It was a long gap between DALL-E 1 and 2, a whole year. In | that time they just sat on it, didn't release anything. | Such a bummer. My theory is that they wanted to hype | everyone up even more for the grand commercial release. | | Funny thing is that people didn't stand still and invented | diffusion and other CLIP guided image synthesis methods, | and DALL-E 2 copied the method, completely changing from | the first architecture. | | Their arrogance is that they think they can ride the | dragon. They want to be the ones to discover, advance it, | and control it. But everyone else doesn't have time for | that shit. | cardine wrote: | > I can only guess either safety from misuse or leveraging it | for money. | | The former is being used as justification for the latter. | pdntspa wrote: | > Doesn't make sense to me why OpenAI has kept DALL-E closed | source for so long. I can only guess either safety from | misuse | | Paternalistic moralizing as a method to discriminate who gets | access to models. Everyone else gets these cloud-service | table scraps. That's why Stable Diffusion is so awesome -- | YOU have the model! | hadlock wrote: | OpenAI isn't open at all, it's just named that way to attract | attention, like the bright green "FREE BIKES and rentals" | place near fisherman's warf in SF | amelius wrote: | Wasn't OpenAI supposed to "democratize deep learning"? | | It seems more like they were trying to accomplish the | opposite. | wahnfrieden wrote: | It's in their interest to posture that way publicly while | controlling scarcity of access where there's financial | upside to | thethimble wrote: | Exclusively licensing GPT-3 to Microsoft seems like a | clear example of this. | | https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/09/23/1008729/opena | i-i... | visarga wrote: | Elites for democracy! With their elite studies and | abilities they will democratise AI by teaching it what is | right and wrong. They already know better than regular | people and AI. | | And being so open they first lock the model up and charge a | fee, so anyone can pay. Just spreading democracy through | paid API calls. /s | | I was a bit mean, they did kick the field in the butt and | pushed us ahead even with all the stubbornness and secrecy. | But now they are just holding us back. | bick_nyers wrote: | That's the thing, once the cat is out of the bag, it's out. | Once someone develops AGI, it now exists. You can choose to | either share it, or sell it. | | You might think that the nuclear bomb is a good analogy to | use here, but it is not, because once the field has | advanced to the point in which one group can develop AGI, | it is now possible for other groups to develop it with | relative ease, unless you actively take over the world | first and deny those other groups the compute resources | necessary to train/run AGI. | | The point is, once these algorithms are upon us, you must | be willing to accept what impacts they will have, even if | it destroys entire industries. The alternative being that | you destroy the industry slowly rather than quickly, while | simultaneously widening the gap between the elites and | everyone else. | | The mistake is thinking that people can't adapt to the | times, which is only true if you are actively holding them | back. | | If someone developed AGI today, the best thing to do would | be to instantly throw up a torrent of it and spread it as | fast as possible, because if a sole entity is able to get | it first and kick the ladder away, we are most likely | screwed. | Analemma_ wrote: | It's sort of both. OpenAI, being an outgrowth of the AI | doomerist community, does have a bunch of people who really | do think the technology is too dangerous to be given to the | masses. This happens to mesh perfectly with the other group | of people at OpenAI who want to make tons of revenue. It's a | harmonious alignment for everyone! Except, y'know, us. | miohtama wrote: | Content creators, like artists, also happen to hate | filters. They do not want to have San Francisco VC culture | induced political correctness imposed on their work. This | helps Stable Diffuse to quickly gain popularity. | nomel wrote: | > I can only guess either safety from misuse | | I still don't understand what this would mean. Where are all | of the terrible things that were supposed to happen, now that | Stable Diffusion is available? | | We've been able to create completely photorealistic fiction | for _decades_ now. See any movie with CGI for an example of | whole worlds, and people, that don 't exist. The bar has | gradually been lowering (see the amazing CGI that YouTubers | do these days), and now maybe there is a bit of a step | function down, but being able to make things that aren't real | isn't remotely new. I don't understand the fear. | bergenty wrote: | It's been a week, there is going to be an explosion of | believable fake items that are going to be used to lure | people in to even more unbelievable conspiracy theories | than there currently exist. Your average conspiracy nut | didn't have the skills or know how before, but they sure do | now. | | Also you're probably not seeing all the pedo content that | people are already generating for themselves. | nabakin wrote: | While I think the fear might be overexaggerated, being able | to make realistic fake content with such ease means it's | harder to know what's true and what's not. Plus this has | been the claim of OpenAI from the beginning. It's possible | the true objective is to keep it private to leverage for | money and this is just their excuse. | nomel wrote: | > means it's harder to know what's true and what's not | | The danger for society is in not _already_ knowing that | is the case, since it 's relatively trivial, without AI, | to make fake content. | nabakin wrote: | Well sure, I think that's dangerous too. I think more | people should be skeptical of the images and content they | consume in addition to it being a problem that truth is | harder to discern. | dylan-m wrote: | Indeed, this talk OpenAI does is basically security | through obscurity, and it's holding us back. Look at how | often people make noise with screenshots of tweets or | emails that never happened. You don't need photorealism | or fancy machine learning for _that_ , and it creates a | lot of problems! If they weren't pretending that all we | need is to put some yellow tape around machine learning, | maybe there would be some interest in solving this type | of stuff properly. But you don't need "AI" for that. You | just need public awareness and some basic, pre-existing | cryptography knowledge. | password54321 wrote: | And how often does this happen with Photoshopped images | that aren't immediately disproven? | nabakin wrote: | My grandmother once emailed my family frantically after | she saw a picture of the Abraham Lincoln statue defaced | with graffiti. Obviously that was a Photoshop, and in | this case, even a bad one, but clearly fake images and | content make it harder to discern truth | [deleted] | shawndrost wrote: | Stable Diffusion allows anyone to make kiddie porn with a | half-second of curiosity/effort. Maybe you didn't know | about that, maybe you think it's NBD, but in any case, that | is the tire fire which aspiring AI majors want to avoid. | visarga wrote: | Pen and paper can do the same. Or Photoshop. Anyone can | draw anything! OMG, stop the paper factory. | bergenty wrote: | Stable diffusion can make very realistic looking images | (probably videos soon) that is accessible to anyone. | bryanrasmussen wrote: | >Anyone can draw anything! | | I'm pretty sure one of the primary arguments for Dall-E | and Stable Diffusion existing is that there are lots of | people who can't draw anything. | [deleted] | ComodoHacker wrote: | You have to wait a little bit more, until HD _video_ | synthesis is possible on a mid-range GPU. Then on a mid- | range smartphone. | tablespoon wrote: | >> I can only guess either safety from misuse | | > I still don't understand what this would mean. Where are | all of the terrible things that were supposed to happen, | now that Stable Diffusion is available? | | Mainly people making porn (e.g. stuff like deepnudes). It | seems like a lot of work has gone into into preventing that | (e.g. filtering porn out of training data, having porn- | detection models to block porny output). There's also been | a lot of talk about political fakes, etc, but I'm not sure | how likely that is to actually happen at this point. I | think one of the "selling points" of limiting access to | DALL*E was that they could revoke access to people who they | deemed to be misusing it. | cinntaile wrote: | Someone else will come along that doesn't have the same | arbitrary limitations, it's a battle you're bound to | lose. | [deleted] | [deleted] | dogcomplex wrote: | My headcanon is they realized this stuff might be the essence | of consciousness itself and wanted to shelter it in a | persistent storage medium where it could grow and learn | safely instead of releasing it to the wild to be booted up | and destroyed by every yokel with a gpu | TakeBlaster16 wrote: | I don't follow this stuff very closely - is there any open- | source model for text generation that outclasses GPT-3? | Stable Diffusion has been released for barely a week and | already seems like the clear winner. It doesn't seem like any | of the open (actually open) text models have made as much of | a splash. | | Of course maybe it's just because text is less visually | impressive than images. | singhrac wrote: | They're just harder to run on your own resources, since | large language models are _very_ large. BLOOM was released | a month ago, is likely better than GPT-3 in quality, and | requires 8 A100s for inference, which pretty much no one | has on their desk. | visarga wrote: | Can anyone confirm if BLOOM is better than GPT-3 at | instruction following? I might have read somewhere that | it's not as well behaved. | aljungberg wrote: | GPT-3 was fine-tuned after release to be better at | following instructions. I don't think that's been done | for BLOOM. | | BLOOM incorporates some new ideas like ALiBi which might | make it better in a more general sense. They haven't | released official evaluation numbers yet though so we'll | have to see. | TakeBlaster16 wrote: | That makes sense, I didn't consider that angle. Thanks | for the info. | choppaface wrote: | sama is very active in YC and makes the call on OpenAI product | roadmap. Furthermore YC encourages good CEO-community | relations. The fact that OpenAI is so far behind Stable | Diffusion and has reduced pricing shows that sama wants OpenAI | to be a highly profitable enterprise company. I.e. not "Open." | You can do both (e.g. Cloudera) but clearly sama is not strong | enough at AI to make this happen. | naillo wrote: | I kinda feel like they chose the name "open"ai when they | started back in 2015 because musk etc wanted _exactly_ the | kind of thing stability ai is now creating. I.e. something | other than a corporation like google having primary access to | these models, and it being more democratized. But as time as | gone by they 've strayed away from that vision but changing | the name would be a PR nightmare. | dang wrote: | > _sama is very active in YC and makes the call on OpenAI | product roadmap. Furthermore YC encourages good CEO-community | relations_ | | Sam hasn't been at YC in years and (based on anything I've | seen) isn't active in YC at all. As for "YC encourages good | CEO-community relations", I have no idea what that means* but | it has nothing to do with HN. We encourage good _content_ | -community relations and that's it. | | You have a long history of posting dark insinuations about | YC/HN, not to mention nagging the mods about how bad we are | and how much better you yourself have done the job in the | past. I mostly let the latter go, but when you start with the | ethical insinuations, that gets my dander up. It's time you | stopped smearing people's reputations on HN. If you have | evidence of wrongdoing, post it--I'm sure the community will | be extremely interested. If you don't, please stop from now | on. | | (Edit: I realize it probably sounds like I'm over-reacting to | the parent comment, but this has been a longstanding pattern. | We can cut people slack for years, but not infinitely.) | | OpenAI stuff and Stable Diffusion stuff (and DeepMind stuff | for that matter) are all popular on HN because the community | is super interested--that's literally it. We're not pulling | strings or playing favorites (we don't even _have_ favorites | in that horserace, at least I don 't). As a matter of fact, | the last thing I did before randomly running across your | comment was downweight the current thread because of the | complaints at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32665587. | | * unless you mean that we advise founders about how to write | content that actually interests the community--that we do, | and not only YC founders but non-YC founders, open source | programmers, bloggers, and anyone else. That's all a | consequence of wanting HN to have good content and seeking to | avoid the boring stuff. By the way, I'm working on an essay | about how to write good for HN and avoid boring stuff too; if | anyone would like to read it, email me at hn@ycombinator.com | and I'll send you a copy. | fourstar wrote: | >that gets my dander up | | Your w0t m8? | dang wrote: | Endangered Words Bureau Agent D23 at your service | Trouble_007 wrote: | _> Endangered Words Bureau<_ | | _" Use Them or we will lose Them!"_ | | I used _Twixt_ (An abbreviation of _Betwixt_ ) to replace | _inbetween_ in a submission. | | Edit: to fix formatting and spelling | [deleted] | d23 wrote: | > D23 at your service | | That's _my_ username, and I 'm also named Daniel. This is | a conspiracy. | codeulike wrote: | re: Stable Diffusion: is there a site similar to | https://www.craiyon.com/ where I can experiment with Stable | Diffusion? | nickthegreek wrote: | https://github.com/hlky/stable-diffusion | rompic wrote: | https://huggingface.co/spaces/stabilityai/stable-diffusion | shafyy wrote: | Here's one by Stability AI themselves: | https://beta.dreamstudio.ai | spyder wrote: | A collection of sites using stable diffusion: | | https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/wzj8kk/a_c. | .. | bergenty wrote: | But aren't the results from stable diffusion not nearly as good | as DALLE2? | astrange wrote: | I cannot get this to work properly (in Safari). It just won't | regenerate anything above or to the left of the image; it acts | like I selected the opposite sides if I try it. | dinobones wrote: | And every time I drag that little square reticle to fill in a | 128x128 patch of an image, you can be sure it'll be a 15 second | API call that I'm charged $0.25 for. Yipee! Very open. | oldstrangers wrote: | Do you expect them to provide computing power for free? | netr0ute wrote: | Why can't we provide it ourselves and skip the middleman? | rngname22 wrote: | No one is stopping you? | password321 wrote: | Dalle is currently a cloud only service. How behind are | you? | baq wrote: | Sir can you point us to the weight url for dalle? | [deleted] | cypress66 wrote: | Did we really get to the point that anything that isn't SaaS | seems alien? | | You know companies sold software that you paid once, and then | ran as much as you wanted on your pc? | oldstrangers wrote: | It doesn't seem odd to me that a product that involves an | absurd amount of data and computing power isn't an easily | consumable commercial product available for mass download. | d23 wrote: | The obvious counterpoint being what stable diffusion | _just_ released. | zegl wrote: | This is great news! I spent multiple hours doing this exact thing | by hand only last week when creating new graphics for | codeball.ai. | jatins wrote: | what kind of prompting is required for this? | | I uploaded a digital painting, selected "Edit mode", added a | generation frame and prompted "complete the painting in frame" | ...but it just added a completed unrelated photo related to | painting in that frame. | d23 wrote: | I guess prompting that is "similar" to the image. The output | mine gave was pretty lackluster. I had to overlap the image | significantly, and even then it didn't seem to take into | account enough of the context to make something that resembled | the style close enough. | bottlepalm wrote: | Feels like a race to the bottom. More features, lower cost, every | week. No idea where it'll level out, but I like it. Just bought | some more Dalle credits today because it's so much fun. This is a | revolution in 'art technology' it's like Steve Job's bicycle for | the mind. Best I could do a month ago was a stick figure in MS | Paint, but now.. | benreesman wrote: | I share your enthusiasm for this development but curious what | you mean by race to the bottom? | | There does seem to be a lot of vague angst about how this will | affect the nascent "Prompt Engineer" career track, but I hope | most are comfortable letting the open innovation play out a bit | before trying to personally monetize it.. | bioemerl wrote: | > race to the bottom? | | In this context it's a good race. This software seems to have | caught fire and tons of people are playing with it and | providing tons of crazy new tools for cheap or free. | | It's a race to the top for us. | learndeeply wrote: | It's a race to the top. New functionality is added and the | model is improved week over week. | aabhay wrote: | That's still a race to the bottom if the price isn't going | up. | jonplackett wrote: | That's not what a race to the bottom is. It's just | competition, which is usually good. | 411111111111111 wrote: | It often feels like words are losing their meaning, with | everyone misusing terms they don't fully understand. | | I don't want to be a doomer and have have surely | unknowingly misused terms as well, but its definitely | noticable how these originally clearly defined terms are | getting used in entirely new ways. | | And it's not just with technical terms like this, it also | applies to originally obvious terms such as racism, | sexism etc which have lost their original meaning | entirely | standardly wrote: | Also, the use of "unironically". What is going on there. | rjtavares wrote: | I can understand the criticism about technical terms | (they work better if stable and precise), but regarding | the rest: that's just how language works. You can't (and | shouldn't) expect words to keep their original meaning | forever. | | For example, the word "term" comes from the original | latin "terminus" that means "end" or "boundary". It only | got the meaning you used it for centuries after it was | first used in English. See: | https://www.etymonline.com/word/term | 411111111111111 wrote: | Oh, it wasn't my intention to criticize anything or | anyone in particular with that comment. | | I was just pondering that our originally clearly defined | terms are rapidly getting used in very confusing manner, | which increases the difficulty of a discussion, as | participants interpret words very differently. | | I dont think that people look up the actual definition of | terms in a thesaurus anymore. They hear it in some | context and create their own personal definition. It | wasn't as obvious before the internet i think, but | nowadays everyone is bombarded with technical terms all | the time, which likely contributes massively to this | increasingly fluid terminology | jibe wrote: | There is generally a negative connotation to race to the | bottom. The Investopedia definition captures this: | | _The race to the bottom refers to a competitive | situation where a company, state, or nation attempts to | undercut the competition 's prices by sacrificing quality | standards or worker safety (often defying regulation), or | reducing labor costs._ | learndeeply wrote: | Race to the bottom implies that they're only competing on | price. Here, they're competing on new functionality as | well. If DALL-E's outputs were substantially better than | Stable Diffusion, more people would use it, even if it cost | more. | tough wrote: | Price would have gone up if SD wasn't open source, look at | the new google collab pro limitations and you have | indications that they're loving this new wave for milking | it properly, I just ordered a GPU to run on local. | learndeeply wrote: | I don't think so, Colab pro limitations are precisely | because they weren't charging by compute unit, so they | were over-subscribed. | MacsHeadroom wrote: | Stable Diffusion is arguably better, has more features, and is | free. OpenAI can't compete with free. | | Even if you don't want to take the 30 seconds to set it up in a | free Google Colab environment, the paid DreamStudio version is | still half the price of Dalle. | scifibestfi wrote: | Stable Diffusion is much less of a nanny too. | | Amusingly it's more open in every way. | slig wrote: | Do you know the best Google Colab tutorial / repo? | cmdr2 wrote: | Hi, there are a couple of good UIs. | https://github.com/cmdr2/stable-diffusion-ui is an easy-to- | install and use tool, written by me (with contributions by | many). Version 2 is in beta, which is a 1-click installer | for Windows, no dependencies or command line needed. v2 | beta: https://github.com/cmdr2/stable-diffusion-ui/tree/v2 | | https://github.com/hlky/stable-diffusion is another popular | and good tool. | slig wrote: | Thank you! | adamsmith143 wrote: | I'm impressed how fast this is getting adopted. Dozens of | repos have popped up. | ajkshdfgkjasdh wrote: | dreamstudio is also waaaay faster than openai. generally a | second or two for 512x512 at 50 steps. | skybrian wrote: | Running this at home is only free like mining cryptocurrency | is free if you didn't buy your computer and don't pay for the | electricity. Plus you can only run it on the computer that | has the good graphics card, which probably isn't your laptop. | | I expect most people aren't going to be generating images all | day, so using a cloud-based service for occasional use will | still make a lot of sense. | | Stable Diffusion offers a paid service to do this too, and | there's nothing wrong with that business model. Prices will | probably come down, though. | bornfreddy wrote: | Not sure if GP had this in mind, but SD is (more) free in | terms of liberty. So yes, you pay with electricity and | hardware, but you control the process yourself, which is | invaluable. DALL-E could change or go offline at any time. | skybrian wrote: | Considering the threat from DALL-E going offline, it | seems quite acceptable. These aren't precious photos | since it's all made up anyway, you can download any | pictures you make, and you probably already did for the | ones you care about. | | I'd worry more about, say, keeping your photos on Google | and losing your account somehow. | Miraste wrote: | It's not only the threat of going offline. DALL-E makes | it extremely difficult to generate many ideas because of | its absurd content blocker - for example, I had something | like "ominous, foreboding landscape beneath a black sun" | blocked because (from what I could tell) it has words | with negative connotations and the word "black" in the | same sentence. It does this all the time, their discord | is full of examples. | skybrian wrote: | Yeah, if you run into those then you'll want to use | something else. (I haven't in my casual usage.) | Tepix wrote: | It does run on Apple silicon. 55 seconds in M1 Pro (vs 15 | seconds on RTX 3070). | skybrian wrote: | That's pretty good, but with that level of latency, I can | still see people paying to use an online service that's | faster. Maybe they'll speed it up more, though? | istsp wrote: | redler wrote: | Is this native? Or Rosetta? | Miraste wrote: | Native, and judging by the speed it's using Metal too (as | opposed to CPU fallback). | frognumber wrote: | I find Stable Diffusion better overall, but it has downsides. | Stable Diffusion tends to be more creative than DALL-E, but | does a lousy job of following directions, especially complex | ones. DALL-E is good if I know what I want specifically. | | I can think of ways to fix Stable Diffusion since it's open- | source. I think I could bridge the gaps as I see them in | about a weekend of hacking. I'm not sure when I'll get that | weekend. | | (Footnote: What I want to do is not something I can explain | without a technical blog-post-length document or a zoom call; | it's about the same level of complexity as the other major SD | hacks we've seen) | Miraste wrote: | Something like prompt weighting? I've seen implementations | of that floating around. | cube2222 wrote: | Setting a high cfg parameter, like 13, drastically helps | with the prompt following. | | That said, for me, I agree that dalle does much better | pencil sketches. | irrational wrote: | Better in what way? I tried 10 prompts that returned good | results in DALLE, but nothing good in stable diffusion. | davidwparker wrote: | Seconded. I got awesome results in making "artwork in the | style of Yoshitaka Amano" in DALLE but horrible ones in | Stable Diffusion. Maybe the prompt was incorrect there (it | would be great if these were more discoverable), but they | art in SD was lacking. | andybak wrote: | SD definitely needs more coaxing and naive prompts tend | not to fare as well as with Dall-E. | bottlepalm wrote: | There was a good example somewhere I can't find, but of a | really complex prompt that Dalle could understand, but SD | couldn't. Maybe some of the GPT-3 is being leveraged for | parsing. | | Anyways I think it's way too early to start taking sides. I | enjoy using all these system. | bioemerl wrote: | One of SDs big limitations (understanding from what I had | read about it) is positional prompts. dall-e seems to | understand x on top of Y, but simple diffusion does not. | dogcomplex wrote: | img2img drawing should take care of that | posterboy wrote: | Ironically, "the cat is on the mat" is a conventional | example sentence in linguistics of metonymy (semantics). | | I have no examples but imagine things like _at the top of | his game_ are immensely problematic, albeit not very | visual to begin with. | adamsmith143 wrote: | Doesnt seem to get IN examples either. E.g. a prompt like | 'an eagle holding a snake in its beak' ends up generating | eagle snake hybrid creatures. | yreg wrote: | I don't think Stable Diffusion is technologically better yet. | | Sure, both SD and Midjourney produce absolutely beautiful | artworks most of the time. But if you want something specific | and out of the ordinary it takes a lot of attempts and | promptcrafting (and sometimes you are unable to accomplish | what you want at all). | | However, my experience is that these prompts (which SD/MJ | struggles with) often produce good results in Dalle2 even on | the first try. | | Of course, OpenAI has very limiting content policy. But if I | have something very specific in mind and it passes their | rules I currently chose Dalle-2. Even though I've spent much | more time with SD. | istsp wrote: | DeWilde wrote: | Also, unlike DALL-E, SD comes without a content filter and | "anti-bias diversity" filter so it gives you what you ask and | treats you as an adult. | iKlsR wrote: | After many months of waiting on my invite I got it and I | entered the prompt which is my greatest fear for some reason | "a red eyed hairy spider with human hands as feet" I got a | warning about violating policy/harmful content etc or | something. Not only that, the results I got were super | underwhelming, after playing with it for a half hour I | haven't looked back. Now playing with SD and an upscaler, | there is no limit to what I can create. Also I always found | it funny the company name hilarious. "Open"AI. | have_faith wrote: | > Best I could do a month ago was a stick figure in MS Paint | | That is still the best _you_ can do... which happens to be | about the best I can do! Just like my introduction to the | computer at a young age has atrophied my handwriting quality. | bottlepalm wrote: | I guess if we're going to get into semantics and the | definition of self, where does the 'I' end and something else | begin then I don't really do anything. You could also say I | can't walk either without the ground. | dougabug wrote: | I think he's calling you a cyborg. | TheMagicHorsey wrote: | I feel like you aren't using the phrase "race to the bottom" | correctly here. Generally a race to the bottom implies some | kind of detrimental outcome for the world as a result of people | failing to internalize externalities generated by a business. | bottlepalm wrote: | It has to do with commoditization and decreasing costs. | Taking something technologically sophisticated and having it | become open source and accessible so quickly is going from | the top of the pyramid - big companies gate keeping betas, to | the bottom - the public, available to everyone, cheaply. | These companies are desperately trying to monetize this | technology, but the value in terms of what people will pay is | falling fast. It might not be a sustainable business model | for OpenAI or anyone else for very long. Hence the race to | the bottom - quickly make a buck before you can't. | [deleted] | tough wrote: | > it's like Steve Job's bicycle for the mind | | I have been thinking the same thing, it's sad Steve will not be | able to see it | fartcannon wrote: | Steve would be trying to lock it down in his walled garden. | guelo wrote: | Not sure why that is more sad than all the other dead people | that can't see it. | criddell wrote: | Nobody said it is more sad. | actusual wrote: | Lol I just want to be able to use the thing. How long is this | waitlist? | istsp wrote: | dangero wrote: | similar work using Stable Diffusion in a Photoshop plugin: | | https://old.reddit.com/r/StableDiffusion/comments/wyduk1/sho... | rvz wrote: | So DALL-E is already old news and the Stable Diffusion | ecosystem is once again already ahead especially with this | announcement. | | Quite funny to see OpenAI panicking and falling on their own | sword, as they were supposed to be 'Open' in the first place | and are now being disrupted by open source. | sroussey wrote: | I came to say something similar. It feels like "OpenAI" was | just a trademark grab to prevent others from using it. Of | course, all conspiracy theories work well when looking | backward in time. | Blackthorn wrote: | Couldn't happen to a more deserving group of people. Good | riddance. Squatting the name "open" and trying to reap the | benefits therein while being anything but. | ItsTooMuch wrote: | I thought their research actually is open, at least? That's | still something... | aabhay wrote: | Their research is closed -- they don't release model | weights, nor in most cases the training or model scripts. | Certain things they release, just like any other for- | profit research firm. | skybrian wrote: | I don't see what it has to do with profit since this is | pretty normal in academia too. Scientists will often | publish papers, but not everything they do. | | "Open" is not well-defined. | ItsTooMuch wrote: | As the sibling says, in academia this is already more | than open... | Blackthorn wrote: | Open means something. It is a, for lack of a better | phrase, virtue signal. When you do that but don't | actually represent the virtue you are trying to signal, | people will understandably get pretty upset about that. | JackFr wrote: | I've been complaining for years about WikiLeaks not being a | wiki -- no one wants to listen.... | kylebenzle wrote: | TakeBlaster16 wrote: | To be fair, it started out as a wiki, and they just never | changed the name. | | There's no CSS here but you can clearly see the MediaWiki | template: https://web.archive.org/web/20090422103636/http | ://www.wikile... | ben_w wrote: | What benefits? The parent is non-profit. | | I'd argue they're imperfect, but they don't look like | arses. Big gap between the two, too. | scoopertrooper wrote: | The parent may be non-profit, but OpenAI LP accepts | investments and delivers returns to investors like any | other regular company. The only difference is that they | 'cap' the returns. However, the cap is negotiated with | individuals investor and I haven't seen anything | disclosing the cap except for the fact that in the | opening round the cap was 100x the initial investment. | | 100x seems like a pretty generous cap to me. | aabhay wrote: | Are they non-profit? Does receiving $1b investment from a | for-profit company still mean you can be non-profit? | ben_w wrote: | Yes to both questions. It's a (set of) specific thing(s) | in company law. | | https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/ | 810... | skybrian wrote: | This is just nonsense. I pay (a small amount) for both. They | have different strengths and it's fun to compare. Adding new | features to a product is not a sign of panic, it's just | normal. | wongarsu wrote: | Dall-E so far hasn't been able to grow an ecosystem because | of how restricted it is. Meanwhile Stable Diffusion makes | trial-and-error and innovation around it easy, and as a | result only 9 days after Stable Diffusion's release we see | OpenAI release a feature that looks like a copy of a tool | from the Stable Diffusion ecosystem. | | I agree that Dall-E isn't obsolete. I'd also add MidJourney | to that list. All three are great models in their own right | with their own pronounced strengths and weaknesses. But | when it comes to enabling novel workflows Stable Diffusion | seems lightyears ahead of the others. | krisoft wrote: | Except you are wrong. This feature was already available | as part of the Dall-e ecosystem. There was a website | called patch-e which facilitated this exact same | workflow. | crypto420_69 wrote: | Also its quite funny to see OpenAI (with all their | researchers and engineers) get disrupted by someone with | little to no background (Emad) in AI and ML but who embraced | OpenAI's original mission about making AI as open as | possible. | robertlagrant wrote: | > and falling on their own sword | | That's not what that means. | mromanuk wrote: | The only move left for OpenAI, is honour their name and make | their own AI Open Source. | shrimpx wrote: | Or rename themselves OpaqueAI. | ckluis wrote: | I think Dall-E would benefit from a "sketch-based" prompt in | addition the text based. This was mindblowing - | https://andys.page/posts/how-to-draw/ | teddyh wrote: | Someone should name the next image generator OWL, since it | "draws the rest of the owl". | boppo1 wrote: | Cheeky: | | https://github.com/hlky/stable-diffusion- | webui/blob/master/i... | teddyh wrote: | I thought it was odd that I hadn't seen anyone else make | that joke. Turns out they had, I just hadn't seen it. | Thanks! | | Reference, for those who haven't seen the original joke to | which my joke was referring: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/ | comments/d3zhx/how_to_draw_an_... | | (See also: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an- | owl) | sho_hn wrote: | It does feel like art's disruptive "Calculator moment" is | happening where you can now leave a lot of basic/mechanical | tasks to a tool and give more focus to higher-minded problems. | | It's going to get so cool and interesting, I think. | | A lot of the conversation around art may focus more on | composition and objectives of the artist in the new prompt | engineering world, with less bias from factors such as | rendition quality etc. creeping in since it's so incidental. | | New forms of art will emerge and/or gain popularity that focus | on trying things the tools aren't good at yet. The human artist | of the gaps. The niches will constantly be shifting. | | I wonder if we'll learn to recognize the output of certain | popular models and perceive them as instruments. "Made by xy on | z" instead of "xz on guitar", so to speak. I remember the | 90s/early 00s internet when it was always easy to tell when | something had been done on Flash, just because of its line | anti-aliasing rendition style being so distinct and familiar. | | The novelty will wear off, and we'll all start to feel a bit | disappointed that the average human's imagination is pretty | limited and novel/original ideas remain somewhat rare as the | patterns and tropes in all the generated art emerge. It's great | you can put the space needle where you want it and get a good- | looking city and space ship, but how many variations of a | cyberpunky skyline with a space ship do you need? And then | we'll celebrate the novel stuff that does happen, as always. I | suppose the tropes will evolve faster as the throughput goes | up. | posterboy wrote: | It's not as if generative art is new. Nor is figurative | painting relevant anymore since the invention of the camera. | A basic _Burger joint in Gerhard Richter_ kind of style | transfer is very much derivative. This isn 't bad in view of | the classics, but it's more like _art-work_ to me. | | The true artists in this one are the coders, no doubt | (corrolar to the inteligence debate). | | On the other hand, you mention an important point with layout | but you underestimate the progress these days. Surely there | are companies who are working on automated design beyond CAD | ( _computer aided design_ ), eg. for specialized antenna. | | > we'll all start to feel a bit disappointed that the average | human's imagination is pretty limited and novel/original | ideas remain somewhat rare as the patterns and tropes in all | the generated art emerge | | Well, one might argue that Richter's most highly priced piece | looks a little like prehistoric art of the pleistocene. It's | a little vain to mention it, because I can much better relate | to the more basic form, of course. A more frequently sore | point would be the pop music industry between professionals | and the amateurish. | | Anyway, this may be thinking too big. For the time being, the | bunch of techniques is better understood as a toolbox, | because it will be a long time before it trumps demo-scene | productions, for instance. Here it is the technique that | counts more often than not. The rest is an acquired taste. | boppo1 wrote: | >basic/mechanical tasks to a tool and give more focus to | higher-minded problems. | | >rendition quality... [is] so incidental. | | There's this thing in painting called 'mark making' and it | can be the difference between an all-time-great painting and | a throwaway portrait. Mark making speaks to every momentary | choice of physical process a painter employs and reveals | their thought process. For some of the greatest painters, it | reveals their genius. | | Do not discount execution. Overlooking "basics" and | "mechanics" is what results in disappointing work. | posterboy wrote: | Surely this too can be instrumentalized to evoke emotions, | stylized to ease execution or faked to justify a result. | sho_hn wrote: | It's a fair point, and thanks for teaching me a new term! | | There's a lovely documentary called "Tim's Vermeer" about | Tim Jenison's - one of the founders of NewTek, the people | behind Video Toaster and LightWave, incidentally both tools | that made hard visual art tasks accessible to wider | audiences - hobby side project to prove that Vermeer used | sophisticated optical tools to capture and copy his scenes | from physical sets, rather than e.g. paint his famous grasp | on lighting purely from his own mind. He builds such tools | himself and then proceeds to successfully create his own | Vermeer-alike painting, despite possessing very artistic | skill himself. | | It's full of good ruminations (and good at sparking more) | on tools-vs-artistry but also execution-vs-method, and | whether designing and adopting innovative tools and the | tedious process to use them made Vermeer less of a genius, | or just a genius of a different kind than otherwise | presumed. | | It's very accessible and doesn't require knowing anything | in particular from the art world. | NIL8 wrote: | I love this idea of extending the canvas to build out the scene. | It makes me wonder if anyone's tried using Poe's stories for | illustrating with AI? His descriptive writing style seems ideal. | AJRF wrote: | The scrambling to stay relevant after Stable Diffusion is very | very enjoyable to watch. | siavosh wrote: | A few weeks ago I was skeptical that this technology would get | past the emotional response we get from procedurally generated | game environments, but I've been convinced otherwise. The | emotional response I get from some of the best of these images | are novel and thought provoking. Makes me wonder what percent of | what makes us human is now algorithmically solved.... | maxwell wrote: | Maybe. I've been often reminded lately of Herbert Goldstone's | "Virtuoso" (1958): | | http://elateachers.weebly.com/uploads/2/7/0/1/27012625/virtu... | aidenn0 wrote: | My wife likes impressionists and sunflowers. "A lone sunflower | in a grassy field at sunset oil painting claude monet" plus | stable-diffusion and a few minutes of tweaking some settings; | she now has a new desktop background. | boppo1 wrote: | I actually paint and spend a lot of time looking at 'serious' | paintings. AI hasn't even scratched the field to a trained | eye. | | Doesn't mean I'm not excited though. This kind-of feels like | I'm watching the camera or printing press being invented. | Everyone is comparing it to fine art, but I think ultimately | it's going in a different and bigger direction. | aidenn0 wrote: | What I did was, IMO, a different and bigger direction to | fine art. I mean _I_ could tell that this wasn 't an | impressionistic painting just given that some areas of the | grass were too detailed. It looks "just fine" though to | untrained eyes, which are well over 90% of the population. | | 1. How long would it have taken me to get good enough at | painting to exceed what I generated in under an hour? How | many people have the motivation to spend that time? | | 2. How much would I have had to pay an art student to make | a painting better than what I generated in under an hour? | | Ten million sub-par Monet knock-offs didn't exist, but | could exist very shortly at minimal cost. Even if it never | gets any better this is already potentially disruptive, and | the models are getting better every month. | bottlepalm wrote: | I've heard this a lot, luckily it's not that hard to test | if you can really tell the difference. We need someone to | create the 'AI Pepsi challenge' for artists to settle this. | sleepdreamy wrote: | We still know basically nothing about our Brain/Consciousness. | I would say we have a lot more to explore/research | mensetmanusman wrote: | Our brain is apparently just a 4 gb large arrangement of | electrical weights. | d23 wrote: | Not to be pedantic, but we have on the order of 100B | neurons, and afaik each of them can be connected to | thousands of other neurons. I assume we probably have a | ways to go before we're encoding the amount of information | a brain can comprehend. | amilios wrote: | Damn, Dall-E really lost its competitive edge overnight when | Stable Diffusion was released. They dropped their prices across | the board in response, but honestly I think it still isn't enough | to save them. The magic of open-source competition. | danielbln wrote: | They dropped the prices for GPT-3, not for Dall-E. | minimaxir wrote: | Also per the email release, variations/inpainting, the trick used | to simulate outpainting before this, now generates 4 images like | a normal DALL-E generation instead of 3 (which was arbitrary | anyways). | | I do wonder how expensive the outpainting is. I'm assuming that | each additional step in the timelapse is a full generation, in | which case ~15 generations is about $1 total. | affgrff2 wrote: | Everyone says stable diffusion is a free alternative. Where do I | get the weights without passing a gatekeeper? | dceddia wrote: | They're currently hosted on Google in a way that you can | download them via curl/wget. Here's a guide including the link: | https://www.assemblyai.com/blog/how-to-run-stable-diffusion-... | [deleted] | msoad wrote: | This is cool and useful! | | Putting "Girl with a Pearl Earring by Johannes Vermeer" in the | kitchen in 2022 does not look good! | i_like_apis wrote: | Because depicting a woman in a kitchen is perpetuating the | pernicious male patriarchy? Sorry we're not doing that. You | might find some reception for this sort of thing on Twitter | though. | dymk wrote: | It's 2022, women are allowed to enjoy cooking and baking just | as much as men are. | zoba wrote: | I have been working on an outpainting piece (in Photoshop) | currently 10609 x 8144. I am very pleased to see more support for | this, though hoping it doesn't kill my current flow. | | Seems like it is currently not working on their site. | dsmmcken wrote: | The UX is evolving around AI image generation so fast, everyday | is something new. There's so much greenfield exploration space | for new interaction models. | | 6 months from now, how we interact with these models will | probably look entirely different. | hey_bear wrote: | While maybe not "as good as a human" creatively, wonder when this | matures a little more, we'll see whole art/design departments go | to the wayside and be replaced by stuff like this... | naillo wrote: | I can't help but feel like they're adding this at this particular | point since Stable Diffusion has announced they're releasing | their 'inpainting' model next week. | i_like_apis wrote: | I really doubt it's related at all, though everyone would think | it looks that way. SD has only been out a week and this feature | would have taken much more than that to build, test, enroll | demo users, make a webpage for, etc. | naillo wrote: | I can't prove it of course but it wouldn't surprise me if | they had this pretty much done already long ago (dall-e has | been out for several months at this point). The actual | implementation doesn't look like it'd take more than a few | days to code honestly (and they've got quite competent coders | over there). Only speculation of course. | i_like_apis wrote: | Everything looks easier when someone else is doing it. | [deleted] | EddySchauHai wrote: | Do you reckon we will have Prompt Engineers who are skilled at | getting AI to generate what they want before long? | bob1029 wrote: | How long until we can run this over shows like Star Trek | Voyager/DS9 and Seinfeld to achieve believable 16:9 scenes? | deadbunny wrote: | Someone has been upscaling DS9 already[1]. Obviously not | release anywhere. | | Not sure I'd want them in 16:9, hd 4:3 like the other HD | releases of TNG and TOS would do me. I understand they shot on | video so an official true HD remaster is likely to never | happen. | | 1. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/324466-tutorial-how- | to-u... | henriquecm8 wrote: | I don't have a deep understanding of how training models | work, but I wonder if training a model with every frame of | TNG and then outpaint it into 16:9 would work. | jefftk wrote: | DS9 shot on film: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19454370 | | But it did use a lot of early CGI that would need to be | redone. | kranke155 wrote: | Why would you do that? What an awful idea. People made those | shows in the 4:3 format, you'd just be adding fluff. This is | like adding more description to a book so it becomes an epic | novel instead of a novella. I'd say keep to the creators | intent... | d23 wrote: | I'm inclined to agree, but if it were coherent I'd take it | over what platforms like netflix do and chop off the tops and | bottom of the content so it'll fit 16:9. | joemi wrote: | I'm not the person who suggested it, but I wouldn't mind | having it fill my (wide)screen when watching. That said, I | understand that some film/tv uses the frame very precisely, | however I'm not sure that these two particular examples do | that throughout their entire episodes. (Though I bet that in | Seinfeld in particular it might weaken/ruin a few visual | gags.) | kranke155 wrote: | Still seems to me like adding fluff - it seems a bit | impossible to me that the AI would add anything pertinent | to the plot. It would add "stuff" like corridors and | background sets and maybe someone out of focus. | | Do the black bars actually bother you that much? You know | there are cropped 16:9 widescreen versions of some of these | shows (which I personally detest, but I work in the | business of moving images). | | Genuinely interested in why this bothers people. | cesis wrote: | Next week? | russdill wrote: | Temporal coherence will still take a while to solve but it's | not undoable. Making things that look correct upon closer | inspection rather than just looking "nice" will probably take | some degree of human curation for quite a while. | bottlepalm wrote: | Tesla could use some of that temporal coherence as well. | dr_dshiv wrote: | Anyone working on closed caption models at the moment? | O__________O wrote: | This was already possible with DALL-E using the inpainting | feature going from defined image to transparent edge; this just | automates what was a manual process before. Do wish the | inpainting tool had more options, for example to fade a | transparency in, since my understanding is it makes a difference; | not to mention magic wand selection/deselection tool. | | In case it is not obvious, every time a user generates an | additional section of an image using the outpainting feature, it | costs a credit. | ShamelessC wrote: | Automation of manual processes is generally useful. | ml_basics wrote: | Yes indeed, and it shows the advantages of Stable Diffusion's | model of just releasing the model and letting people do what | they want with it - this was straightforward to implement | oneself. | | And while OpenAI released this feature now, it's probably just | a matter of days until even better features built on Stable | Diffusion will be released, given how much community energy is | focussed on it right now. | pilotneko wrote: | Maybe kludge it with a dithered transparency mask? | O__________O wrote: | Only matter of time before Adobe adds inpainting with hooks | to local or API generative tools, using OpenAI to edit works | like this is like transporting back to past using basic image | editing tools. | benreesman wrote: | So... are we done politely coughing and looking out the window at | the idea that the gatekeeping was motivated by altruism so that | we can move on and just use this much better innovation model | going forward? | | Various (subjectively judged) SOTAs on at least some subset of at | least this family of tasks is changing somewhere between _daily_ | and _hourly_ right now. I 've been watching this stuff closely | since fairly early ImageNet days and I've never seen a Cambrian | explosion of "how the hell did that do that?" events at anything | like this cadence. | aantix wrote: | Why would Google hold back on releasing Imagen if there are | competitors that are publicly available already? | | Imagen isn't special anymore. | jsnell wrote: | A few possible theories, some might be mutually exclusive: | | Organizational scar tissue making them more risk averse about | the PR risks of letting the genpop use AI generation tools, and | create something offensive. With the safe assumption that | Google will get blamed, not the user. | | Fear of government regulation on AI if they don't self- | regulate. | | No need to actually release it, since this isn't the core | business but just research. (While openai needs to actually | create the business.) Corollary: more to lose -- a scandal | around offensive content will not hurt openai's non-existent | other businessess. It might make some advertisers pull their | ads from Google. | | The opportunity cost of building a self serve platform is too | high. (Can't pull in people writing those kind of apps from | projects with more commercial importance. Can't make the ML | researchers do that.) | | They misjudged how much demand there would be, and thought that | building a platform would not be useful for a few years. And if | it now turns out to actually be a great business it'll now take | them a year to productionize and build a platform. | | Their compute requirements are so high that selling access is | not viable, the costs are prohibitive for real users. | | It's not that different from e.g. self driving cars. Pretty | obviously they had better tech from early on, but were not | willing to take the risks that Tesla was. | aabhay wrote: | Google is most interested in maintaining mind-share so that | researchers don't jump ship. They could always monetize Imagen | through Google Cloud but are concerned about risks (NSFW, legal | issues, bias, etc.) so would rather wait for others to step | into the water first. | thebeastie wrote: | This is moving fast ! | | Obviously, it's going to be an incredible boon for content | creation. I suppose that in the future it'll make creating videos | an order of magnitude easier, which will allow a single person or | a small team to make a high quality movie where all the assets | are generated, so that'll really give us an eye into a lot of | people's imaginations, for better or worse. | | To leave a thought provoking example, what's going to happen when | every adolescent has the ability to make a convincing deepfake? | | It'll put nation states in a similar position than they already | have with crypto, where they wonder if they should ban, or | regulate... doing nothing wont be an option. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-08-31 23:00 UTC)