[HN Gopher] Leon: Open-source, self-hosted personal assistant
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       Leon: Open-source, self-hosted personal assistant
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 188 points
       Date   : 2022-09-04 15:59 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | leonroy wrote:
       | Uh-oh, did you have to call it Leon?
        
       | afro88 wrote:
       | But what can it actually do?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | malermeister wrote:
       | How does this compare to some other open source, self hosted
       | assistants?
       | 
       | rhasspy comes to mind, but i believe Mycroft can be self-hosted
       | too.
        
         | hungryotter wrote:
         | I've tried to self host myfcroft but after tinkering with it
         | for about 3-4 hours I gave up. They provide little to no
         | information for self hosting. Sure, you can use their pre-built
         | docker image but you still have to create an account in their
         | cloud and connect to it. And their privacy policy is not so
         | great imo.
        
           | joestrong wrote:
           | I did figure out how to do it at one point. I think you had
           | to remove some default config from a JSON file to stop it
           | connecting to their cloud. You still had to query Google
           | directly for the STT though
        
           | malermeister wrote:
           | I believe they hired the rhasspy dev though and he's been
           | trying to change this for the better.
           | 
           | We'll see if he gets anywhere...
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | ttgurney wrote:
       | Looks like quite a lot of marketing put into this open-source
       | project. Heavyweight glossy website with trendy TLD, emojis
       | everywhere. Is this kind of thing typical in the JS world in
       | particular? Seriously asking.
       | 
       | I'm trying to figure out what they are selling me, or what
       | megacorp they are associated with, but I don't see it yet.
        
         | IMcD23 wrote:
         | And yet, I set out to find what this thing can do. I read the
         | README.                 Today, the most interesting part is
         | about his core and the way he can scale up. He is pretty young
         | but can easily scale to have new features (skills). You can
         | find what he is able to do by browsing the packages list.
         | Sounds good for you? Then let's get started!
         | 
         | The packages list is a dead link. https://github.com/leon-
         | ai/leon/tree/develop/packages
        
           | kenny87 wrote:
           | > The packages list is a dead link. https://github.com/leon-
           | ai/leon/tree/develop/packages
           | 
           | From the blog ...
           | 
           | "As of now, 'module' and 'packages' no longer exist. Instead,
           | they've been replaced by 'skills'."
           | 
           | New link is https://github.com/leon-
           | ai/leon/tree/develop/skills
        
             | jimktrains2 wrote:
             | All those folders just contain a single json file with the
             | name of the skill category in it? I don't see any actual
             | features?
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | Right? I'm finding this problem everywhere. When checking out
         | new software, it's becoming more and more difficult to
         | determine what to do with "good looking marketing," and it
         | nearly cuts perfectly in roughly 3 ways; you're likely either a
         | dedicated whatever-size team making something great that
         | happens to have good marketing; you're a small team pushing
         | garbage and putting all your money in marketing, or you're a
         | megacorp (e.g. likely not great)
        
         | yewenjie wrote:
         | > Is this kind of thing typical in the JS world in particular?
         | 
         | Yes, pretty common in the frontend world.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | coscorrodrift wrote:
         | >Heavyweight glossy website with trendy TLD, emojis everywhere.
         | Is this kind of thing typical in the JS world in particular?
         | 
         | yeah in frontend projects/dataviz stuff for sure
        
         | arisAlexis wrote:
         | This is overly suspicious. The guy made a nice effort and open
         | sources it. Would you prefer he had it closed source or sold
         | it?
        
         | fxtentacle wrote:
         | It's a showcase for a front-end framework. See the link at the
         | bottom. https://vercel.com/
        
           | yunohn wrote:
           | Sure, but vercel has nothing to do with the UI look. It's a
           | framework for developing the overall application, not the
           | components or designs.
        
           | wetmore wrote:
           | Vercel is not a front-end framework. Also that's a
           | sponsorship link.
        
       | inezk wrote:
       | "Leon uses AI concepts, which is cool." - somehow this really
       | discouraged me from looking deeper into it.
        
         | denton-scratch wrote:
         | > somehow this really discouraged me from looking deeper into
         | it.
         | 
         | I was also discouraged by that remark. But I've never had (or
         | even used) Alexa or Siri or whatever; they're a cool idea, but
         | I'm not prepared to rely on either of those sevice providers.
         | So I'm interested.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | _Please don 't pick the most provocative thing in an article or
         | post to complain about in the thread. Find something
         | interesting to respond to instead_
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | ianbicking wrote:
         | It seems to be written by a young guy, English is his second
         | language, and he's excited to be learning different
         | technologies along the way.
        
         | titaniczero wrote:
         | English is his second language, I'd cut him some slack and
         | create a PR to fix it and help him instead of criticizing.
        
       | yupis wrote:
       | Thanks. Looks awesome.
        
       | pvg wrote:
       | A thread from 2019:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19152561
        
       | hammyhavoc wrote:
       | Checked out the repository's homepage. Is it just me or do other
       | people hate the buzzword of "virtual brain"?
       | 
       | Seems like everything is being described as that or a "second
       | brain" these days.
        
       | AlphaWeaver wrote:
       | Am I the only one freaked out by the focus on a Leon instance
       | setup unnecessarily framed as being "born" in their documentation
       | materials here?
       | 
       | > $ leon create birth
       | 
       | > At this stage, Leon is born and can already start to run via
       | this command: [...]
       | 
       | It seems like an unnecessary anthropomorphization.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | Does it make you twice before you kill Leon or its children?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | mdaniel wrote:
       | This probably was submitted due to their recent blog activity, in
       | which they talk about their NLP improvements:
       | https://blog.getleon.ai/a-much-better-nlp-and-future-1-0-0-b...
        
       | fxtentacle wrote:
       | self-hosted?
       | 
       | "You are in control of your data. Leon lives on your server"
       | 
       | Speech-to-Text: Google Cloud, IBM Watson, Coqui STT, Alibaba
       | Cloud (coming soon), Microsoft Azure (coming soon)
       | 
       | So the AI assistant lives on my server, but if I want to have
       | good quality speech recognition, everything I say is sent through
       | a US cloud service. The only offline option, Coqui has a 7.5%
       | word error rate [1] on LibriSpeech test clean, which is worse
       | than Mozilla Deepspeech 2 from 2016 [2]. State of the art would
       | be around 1.4% [3], meaning 81% less errors than Coqui.
       | 
       | [1] https://coqui.ai/blog/stt/deepspeech-0-6-speech-to-text-
       | engi... [2] https://paperswithcode.com/paper/deep-speech-2-end-
       | to-end-sp... [3] https://paperswithcode.com/paper/pushing-the-
       | limits-of-semi-...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | j1elo wrote:
         | They might be interested in integrating Vosk, it's a speech-to-
         | text engine that is just a shared library (.so file on Linux)
         | and comes with API support for a variety of languages:
         | 
         | https://alphacephei.com/vosk/
         | 
         | https://github.com/alphacep/vosk-api
         | 
         | Still, I've found that the Big players have much better
         | recognition models, and the post-processing that I assume they
         | do (grammatical, maybe syntactical inferences that improve the
         | end result) are probably much more powerful too.
        
         | spullara wrote:
         | There aren't any good speech-to-text models that are open
         | source. If you think there is one, please reply with a link.
         | The cloud ones are far superior.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | Right, and that's fine. The point is that if that's the case,
           | it's incredibly disingenuous to say that you are in control
           | of your own data if you use Leon.
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | That doesn't make it right to lie.
        
           | fxtentacle wrote:
           | I fully agree and I would love to change that. I mean my
           | company already funded work in that direction... but I sadly
           | predict that we won't have good open source real-time speech
           | recognition anytime soon.
           | 
           | My napkin calculation is that you need about $100k for each
           | attempt at training a Conformer-Transducer. There's a pre-
           | trained NVIDIA model but it appears to have a bad choice of
           | hyperparameters and performance is much worse than what one
           | would expect based on research literature and I believe
           | you're not allowed to execute it on non-NVIDIA hardware.
           | 
           | A skilled team will maybe need 5-10 attempts for discovering
           | a good set of hyperparameters. So the price to create the AI
           | model will likely be around $1 mio. But if you have such
           | large expenses, you have to plan things as a business
           | venture. And that means an open source release is highly
           | unlikely.
           | 
           | (unless, of course, someone like stability.ai is happy to
           | bankroll 200 A100 GPUs for a few months each per target
           | language. In that case, please contact me)
        
           | RussianCow wrote:
           | I don't think the open source ones need to be superior to the
           | cloud ones, or even as good. If they come close enough for
           | the most common, let's say, 80% of use cases, that's good
           | enough for many people.
        
             | fxtentacle wrote:
             | Currently, they are like 5x the error rate, which is
             | significantly worse.
        
       | diceduckmonk wrote:
       | Those are beautiful animations / visual graphics on the landing
       | page.
       | 
       | Awesome job!
        
       | Vaslo wrote:
       | Why would you take this over Mycroft? Is there a difference?
        
         | diroussel wrote:
         | Do you have a problem with that, Dave.
        
       | eterps wrote:
       | What are some obvious use cases for something like this? I really
       | have trouble imagining what you would use it for.
        
         | hackcasual wrote:
         | Most of my 30 something friends have ditched their Alexa's and
         | Google assistant devices because of concerns around security
         | and privacy. The ability to say "set a timer for 30 minutes" is
         | nice, but not enough to invite always on microphones into
         | private spaces
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > my 30 something friends
           | 
           | That's a lot of friends! Good job.
        
             | nell wrote:
             | dad, is that you?
        
               | verdverm wrote:
               | Are you winning son?
        
           | kvirani wrote:
           | Wait what. When I hold the main button on android and say
           | exactly that, it means I have an always on microphone??
        
             | qbit42 wrote:
             | The "always-on" microphone feature is used to listen for
             | "Okay Google", if you have that enabled.
        
               | kvirani wrote:
               | I see. So you can still use these assistants without the
               | privacy concern then. So why abandon?
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | If I have to hit a button to activate the voice
               | assistant, that removes use-cases like "my hands are full
               | but I want to turn on the smart lights" and "I'm cooking
               | and want a timer, but my hands are too dirty." These are
               | the use-cases where the tool really shines because it has
               | no competition.
               | 
               | Without such a use-case, the tool gets put in the back-
               | of-mind. Sure it might be marginally easier to use than
               | swiping and poking, but my mental model of using the
               | phone is already swiping and poking.
        
               | MikeTheGreat wrote:
               | Disclaimer: I don't have one of these and don't
               | particularly want one. The privacy concerns kinda creep
               | me out. That said, I've been to friends homes and seen
               | them use it.
               | 
               | As far as I can tell the primary use case for these
               | things is to be <random place in your home> and then just
               | say out loud "Alexa, set a timer for ....". I've heard
               | that you can order stuff from Amazon also using your
               | voice. I think a third use case starts with "Alexa, tell
               | me a joke".
               | 
               | I'm assuming that there's other things you can do with
               | these (and would love to know, if anyone's willing to
               | share).
               | 
               | So - if the solution to the privacy concern is to walk
               | over to the device and push a button then that seems to
               | remove most of the usefulness of the device. Speaking as
               | someone who doesn't want one / doesn't have one of these
               | things I can totally see how eliminating the "voice
               | control from anywhere" feature leads to opting out of it.
               | 
               | (When I'm walking around my home I've always got my phone
               | on me (which, to be fair, has a bunch of privacy concerns
               | too) so I can more easily set a timer / buy something on
               | Amazon / Google for jokes by fishing my phone out of my
               | pocket and then using that, rather than walking over to
               | push a button.)
               | 
               | (The "what else can you do with these" is a genuine
               | question - if people are comfortable sharing I'd love to
               | hear what you can do with these)
        
               | mod wrote:
               | I have Alexa, although I'm going to remove her and
               | replace with a locally-hosted thing.
               | 
               | I've tied mine in with home automation stuff. So I can
               | turn on and off lights using voice, even if I'm not at
               | home. I sometimes forget to turn off my workshop and I
               | can do that from anywhere.
               | 
               | I'd like to figure up a way to reset my internet, because
               | I access cameras, and it goes out sometimes. I'm very
               | sure this can be done.
               | 
               | I also use her for weather, although I'm annoyed about
               | some of her limitations there, and I intend to get
               | exactly what I want by coding. I want to be able to ask
               | things like "when will it rain next", but Alexa can't do
               | that.
               | 
               | She can also do reminders in a week or whatever, I use
               | that some. And I ask very simple questions that she can
               | query Google for, but honestly she's terrible at it.
               | 
               | I also think she's too verbose, even with verbosity
               | turned down. She just goes on and on sometimes workout
               | being asked--like instructions on resetting the routers
               | if she can't contact Amazon.
               | 
               | I also try Google assistant and Bixby. I use my watch for
               | a lot of the things you said you use your phone for.
               | 
               | Anyway I'm not happy with any of them. I plan to work a
               | bunch on some skills as my next project, after the
               | current one is done.
        
               | hackcasual wrote:
               | There's a lot of little use cases. Hand free cooking
               | stuff (set a timer, home many tablespoons in a pint).
               | Device control, faster to turn off a TV with voice than
               | dig for the remote, or play a playlist/skip songs. None
               | of those really save that much more time than the old
               | fashion way, so concerns about privacy mean things get
               | done the old way.
               | 
               | I know some people like having them in if they have
               | frailty or mobility concerns, which is probably the only
               | really new usecase.
        
               | revolvingocelot wrote:
               | That's just one of several privacy concerns. It's
               | possible to parse voice locally, as in TFA and eg
               | Mycroft('s open source, self-hosted version, anyway), but
               | for "some reason" mainstream assistants don't do it.
               | Sure, you can hold a button, and Google will only hear
               | about your timer request and nothing more, but some
               | people find the idea of Google knowing when you're
               | setting timers to be upsetting. Or at least worthy of
               | avoiding.
        
               | vineyardmike wrote:
               | They do actually do on device processing now...
               | 
               | Siri, G Assistant, Alexa, Bixby, Sonos all perform at
               | least some locally. It seems the major issue is large
               | dictionaries (eg music libraries) or complex queries.
               | Most had an article about how basic features (times,
               | smart home) work entirely on device.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/7/22523438/apple-
               | iphone-siri...
               | 
               | [2] https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/07/google-
               | assistant-...
               | 
               | [3] https://www.amazon.science/blog/on-device-speech-
               | processing-...
               | 
               | [4] https://www.xda-developers.com/samsung-bixby-will-
               | speed-up-r...
               | 
               | [5] https://www.engadget.com/sonos-voice-control-music-
               | assistant...
        
               | mod wrote:
               | When my internet is out, Alexa won't even listen to me
               | (besides her name)
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | Do any of them have a setting to enforce on device
               | processing only?
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | When I used to use Alexa there were a lot of unexpected things
         | that came up and I used it atleast 15+ times a day. Things like
         | what's the weather like, what time is it, set a timer, unit
         | conversions, turn on/off lights or appliances, when is it going
         | to rain, factual google information, when was someone born,
         | what's the sports scores, I like trivia so it could ask you
         | questions while you were lounging around etc. and so many more
         | things to be honest. I stoped using it like 3 years ago though,
         | can't have an always on speaker in my house that sends all its
         | info back to Amazon, no matter what assurances they give me.
        
         | nextaccountic wrote:
         | Personal assistants can really make a difference to people with
         | disabilities
        
           | eterps wrote:
           | That's an excellent point, maybe something that should be
           | addressed on the site.
        
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