[HN Gopher] iOS 16 Available September 12th ___________________________________________________________________ iOS 16 Available September 12th Author : yottabyte47 Score : 211 points Date : 2022-09-07 18:53 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.apple.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com) | bell-cot wrote: | For those with older devices, a list of supported (& unsupported) | hardware - | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_16#Supported_devices | zahma wrote: | I'll be waiting for reviews and bug reports. I've found that for | the last releases, subsequent patches have been worth the wait. | cloutchaser wrote: | Any news on SKAdnetwork 4 release date? I can't find anything | online. | gravelc wrote: | Been on the b for a while; it's a good OS. Particularly like the | ability to use the iPhone as a Zoom cam. 3D printed a phone mount | and everything works pretty seamlessly. Lock Screen widgets are | nice too. | | Stage manager on iPadOS doesn't do it for me though. | mensetmanusman wrote: | A great maps feature would be to even let me choose google maps | when clicking on an address in iMessage. | teekert wrote: | My country does not have bike navigation options, so you still | need gmaps a lot. I really hope they will add it soon. | paxys wrote: | I'm just happy that a decade later Apple is finally catching up | to the industry standard home screen and lock screen | notifications/widget experience that they resisted so hard for | some reason. | ronnocoep wrote: | Think Apple will ever agree to allow RCS into the iMessage | ecosystem? | theshrike79 wrote: | It's a Google-backed project, so I'd wager the probability | around "Google will add iMessage and AirTag support to Android" | -levels =) | DesiLurker wrote: | my understanding based on google messaging is that google is | interested but Apple prefers to have its walled garden. | Jtsummers wrote: | It's not really Google-backed, more Google-embraced. Google | didn't even add support on their own carrier (Google Fi) | until 2019. | gman83 wrote: | Do people still get excited for these smartphone OS updates? I | remember a couple of years ago I couldn't wait to see what the | new features were. Now I don't think I've changed the way I use | my phone for several years. | Gigachad wrote: | I'm excited to be able to use my phone as a camera for video | calls. The quality difference between my phone and MacBook | webcam is quite large. | Kkoala wrote: | As a non-iOS user it looks like a great update, but at the same | time I thought that many of these were already features like in | Android | ezfe wrote: | Sure, but if you look at Android 13 it's basically all things | that are already in iOS | | From the list, I only see two features that don't have equals | already in iOS - both related to Material You. | | https://blog.google/products/android/android-13/ | glitchinc wrote: | After all of the iterations of iOS, there is still no way to have | only the first new/unread message per SMS/iMessage thread | generate a notification--particularly the notification sound or | tone. | | I find the feature would be useful in all situations, but would | be especially useful in group threads. I don't need to hear a | ding every time someone in a group thread sends a message if I | don't have my phone in my hand. One ding generated when the first | unread message is received will do just fine. | patrickserrano wrote: | Not the same thing by a long shot, but you can turn on "Hide | Alerts" for group chats. My wife has all of her long running | group chats set to this to prevent alerts all day when her | friends are chatting. | muhammadusman wrote: | Yup, this has been very helpful. Coming back to 20+ messages | where 50-75% of them are reactions was annoying to get alerts | for. | kemotep wrote: | Looking forward for PassKey integration. Then the wait for my | programs and accounts to integrate and allow for passwordless | logins. | PassageNick wrote: | I'm looking forward to this as well. | noncoml wrote: | Apple, for iOS 17 can you please let me freely rearrange the apps | on the screen? Having them shuffle every time I add or remove an | app is really a pain | easrng wrote: | There are a few workarounds. | | Clear Spaces https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clear- | spaces/id1532666619 | | iEmpty https://iempty.tooliphone.net/ | | MAKEOVR https://www.makeovr.io/ | giarc wrote: | I'd like to be able to log into my Apple ID account and do this | on a PC. I hate sliding them around various pages with my | finger. | jacobn wrote: | I thought that was available via iTunes on Windows? | layer8 wrote: | It used to be possible with iTunes, but they removed that | feature in 12.7. | kshacker wrote: | And I think years back you used to be able to do it from | iTunes when the phone was connected with a wire. It | disappeared over the years probably when they moved to | Finder, but I think maybe even earlier. | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | jdlyga wrote: | You've been able to move apps around pretty easily for at | least a decade. You can even remove them and just access them | from the app drawer or have multiple copies on the same page. | What he's talking about is not have them snap to an app grid. | dang wrote: | If you keep posting in the flamewar style to HN, we're going | to have to ban you. I just asked you about this the other | day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32718712. | | If you'd please review | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to | the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it. | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | _> I just asked you about this the other day: | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32718712_ | | Sorry, my bad, I didn't see your other message since it got | buried in hundreds of nested replies and there's no way I | was gonna see it. | | Also, what guidelines did the other message it break? | nabakin wrote: | Being rude and insulting, I'm sure. | | Read the guidelines for comments, your comment violates | almost all of the top rules. | | > _Be kind_. Don 't be snarky. Have curious conversation; | don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't | sneer, including at the rest of the community. | | > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive | | > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead | of calling names. | | > Eschew flamebait | | > Please don't post shallow dismissals | ChuckNorris89 wrote: | _> Being rude and insulting, I'm sure._ | | And exact which part was rude and insulting? | | _> Be kind. Don 't be snarky. Have curious conversation; | don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't | sneer, including at the rest of the community. | | > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive | | > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead | of calling names. | | > Eschew flamebait | | > Please don't post shallow dismissals _ | | Many comments on HN break at some of those rules you | listed on a regular basis, especially on topics that | spark a lot of debate, yet they fly. Even racist ones. | Why? Saying my comment breaks all those rules, you must | be joking. | | If you start to split hairs like that and look for | interpretations out of context (which I assume my comment | was read out of context, without following the full | thread) then I'm pretty sure many, may comments here can | be said break some rules. | | Look, I mean no disrespect, and I have apologized and | corrected my mistake, and I promise I try my best to | follow the rules as I love this community and love | contributing here for the best, but what you said and | what I experienced sometimes, feels like rule enforcement | is random, subjective and sometimes personally targeted. | | Since this is offtopic and don't want to discuss this | here, @dang, could you please delete this thread. | tptacek wrote: | Fair question. Easy answer. If it's some random HN user, | then maybe it's rule lawyering. If it's 'dang, it's not. | dewey wrote: | You can rearrange apps on their screen, you just can't have | gaps between them or move them "freely" in a way that they | alwasy snap to an invisible grid...which isn't really | something I have thought about ever. | teekert wrote: | I got used to it (especially when things are settled) but | when you are fresh from android it can be annoying that you | have to fill the top rows before your can place your fav | apps within reach of your thumb. It feels very wrong. | mikestew wrote: | Use blank icons to fill in the rows. Kludgy? Sure, but it | gets the job done: | | https://david-smith.org/blank.html | permo-w wrote: | they mean they can't have an app floating in space not in a | nice pretty queue next to another app. not that they can't | rearrange them at all | candiddevmike wrote: | > Freeform. Freeform is a productivity app where you and your | collaborators can bring ideas to life. Jot down notes, share | files, and insert web links, documents, video, and audio. | | > Coming later this year | | Apple going to start offering email too? | desro wrote: | With iCloud Plus you're able to add custom email domains | (really nice and tight integration with Cloudflare DNS for all | the MX records) -- was a breeze to set up. Haven't put it | through it's paces yet, though. | jws wrote: | Weirdly, you can only have three email addresses per domain. | So you can't really use it for a typical family domain, even | though it supports the family group (which can be six | people). | ezfe wrote: | You can create catch-all addresses now, for personal use at | least. | nytesky wrote: | The other users in your family group will be able to add 3 | addresses of their own; the 3 you see are just the email | address for your root@yourdomain.com account. User1 will | have their own set of 3; login to iCloud.com from one of | the family accounts and you'll see. | CharlesW wrote: | I migrated my personal email from Google Workspace to iCloud+ | a few months ago, and it worked great. No complaints so far. | | This guide to using imapsync was invaluable: | https://blah.cloud/miscellaneous/migrating-google- | workspaces... | kylehotchkiss wrote: | Just be sure to check your spam box more often than you | used to. iCloud mail's spam filtering is very aggressive | Jtsummers wrote: | > Apple going to start offering email too? | | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MobileMe | | Replaced by iCloud later. So it's not something they will do, | but something they have been doing for over two decades. | cachvico wrote: | mac.com before MobileMe, still have my @mac.com ;) | SleepilyLimping wrote: | It's frustrating, because this likely won't be usable on | Desktop, Windows, or the majority of workspaces. I actually | don't mind the Reminders app, but like iMessage, I can't use it | on my main Windows desktop, so I don't. | | I can count on one hand the amount of times I've FaceTimed | someone because of fragmentation in my network with Android. | ezfe wrote: | FaceTime supports joining from the web | easrng wrote: | https://www.icloud.com/reminders/ :) | criddell wrote: | You can use Reminders in the browser. | artificialLimbs wrote: | Teams. Apple is going to start offering Teams. | [deleted] | christophilus wrote: | I'm surprised they aren't using the iPhone 14 in the promo | images. | | Anyway, looks like my old iPhone 7 is finally going to have to | retire. :/ I can't wait for a good Linux phone. | | Edit: 7 years of use isn't bad compared to Android, but the phone | is still just fine, and it really bothers me that it's turning | into e-waste for no good reason. | MaysonL wrote: | Apple is getting ready to release iOS 15.7, which will work on | iPhone 7... | lapcat wrote: | Don't expect that to last long. iOS 14.8 was released on | September 13, 2021, iOS 14.8.1 on October 26, 2021, and then | nothing else. | scarface74 wrote: | iOS 12.5.6 was released 8 days ago for the 5s... | lapcat wrote: | That was a weird one, but nonetheless, here's the list of | security update, and there's been nothing for older | versions since October 2021. | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 | | Also note that 12.5.6 was for a single actively exploited | CVE and no other vulnerabilities. | Eric_WVGG wrote: | come back and let us know how many years that good linux phone | gets supported | wildpeaks wrote: | Same, I still love my 7 (which still works perfectly fine | despite using it everyday, even still has its original battery | and screen) and been avoiding the upgrade until now because of | the lack of Home button on the newer models. | | I use both iPhone 13 Pro & Pro Max everyday because I do iOS | development (among many other things), so it's not like I don't | know how to use the newer models, but the Home button is so | intuitive I can use the 7 even when I'm half awake whereas I | need to pay close attention to the screen on 13. | | Not having a Home button is like a keyboard without an Esc key. | genghisjahn wrote: | I've stayed with the SE models for the Home Button. Love the | Home Button and not having a phone that's too big or too | small. The SE models seem just right. But I hear they don't | sell well so who knows how much longer they will be around. | KennyBlanken wrote: | I agree that the home button is invaluable from a UI | perspective but for unlocking, it's annoying as hell if you | live somewhere it's cold (ie gloves) or get your hands | significantly dirty or wet. | Klonoar wrote: | It's not really e-waste given Apple's recycling program, which | is generally decent. 7 years of use with an option to recycle | it when upgrading is about as good as you'll find. | CogitoCogito wrote: | Do the phones actually get recycled? (This is a genuine | question.) | Klonoar wrote: | https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_P | r... | | Their environmental reports that they release each year | indicate that they do, yes. It also looks like there's an | audit report in there as well that logs the recycled | materials as verified (page 109). | lotsofpulp wrote: | I would assume nothing other than easy to recycle | metal/glass/paper actually gets recycled. It just gets | shipped to a developing country and dumped there. I assume | if a company hires a third party to "recycle", it is | probably cover your ass so they can say they recycled it, | and it works pretty well if the third party is in another | country. | | https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil- | misled-... | nytesky wrote: | My daughter as an iPhone 6, so its many versions pass and I | think they have stopped security patches with this upgrade. How | much risk is she of being hacked without those updates -- is | there any way to track identified risks? | WrtCdEvrydy wrote: | It's the iOS app support that suffers. Apple makes it pretty | unbearable to get apps for unsupported devices so I take | those and relegate them to single use non-data holding | devices like dashcams and other uses. | scarface74 wrote: | As of at least a couple of years ago, I could still | redownload "the last compatible version" for my old iPad | 1st gen (2010). I was able to download and run Netflix and | Plex. | WrtCdEvrydy wrote: | Yes, but you must have a nicer iPhone on the same iCloud | account that downloads the current version, then you can | use the "purchased" page on the old device. | spockz wrote: | Or for some apps that allow family sharing having someone | in the family with a nicer iPhone also should work. | nytesky wrote: | Oh that's a bonus for me, I want her to use it basically | for phone, imessage, and find my! | [deleted] | gorbypark wrote: | I'm pretty sure Apple just released a security patch for the | iPhone 6 just a week or two ago. Seems like they are keeping | "severe" CVEs patches on (some) out of support devices. | scarface74 wrote: | Apple just released a security release - iOS 12.5.6 for the | iPhone 5s a few days ago (8/31/2022). I doubt they have | stopped releasing security updates for the iPhone 6. | nytesky wrote: | My understanding was they would stop after today! | lapcat wrote: | 6 years. iPhone 7 was released in September 2016. | altairprime wrote: | iOS 15 will continue receiving security updates for a while | yet, so there's no pressing reason to upgrade. Or you could | donate the phone to Apple in case they can melt it down and | reuse it instead of shredding it. | lapcat wrote: | > OS 15 will continue receiving security updates for a while | yet | | iOS 14.8 was released on September 13, 2021, iOS 14.8.1 on | October 26, 2021, and then nothing else. | altairprime wrote: | iOS 12.5.6 was released on August 31, 2022, fixing | CVE-2022-32894: | | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222 | majou wrote: | iOS 12.5.6 was released on a week ago. | | iOS 15 will be getting patches even if iOS 14 and 13 don't. | GeekyBear wrote: | Apple just released another security update for the 2014 iPhone | 5s. | highwaylights wrote: | Yeah but if they're not guaranteeing security updates then | you still can't rely on it. Which sucks. | | I don't really get it either. You want to charge a premium | for your handsets, why not let there be a secondary market | all the way down the value chain for prices below where you | want to go? It just means you're selling more iCloud services | and locking people in that way so that when they finally _do_ | need that upgrade it's an iPhone rather than an Android. | Otek wrote: | Could you elaborate? I genuinely don't understand what you | mean | highwaylights wrote: | Apple might release an emergency patch for an old device, | but it's not safe for you to keep using that device | unless they're committing to support the device with | security patches on an ongoing basis. | | I think they _should_ support even very old iPhones with | updates because: | | 1) They can't afford to make an iPhone for $50. | | 2) Even if they could, they don't want to make a $50 | iPhone because it would be terrible and the margin | minimal. | | 3) Supporting old phones allows a second-hand market for | iPhones to thrive in the Chinese-Android-phone-bargain | price tier where Apple can't compete with new devices | (this is in fact already the case given that there's a | used market for old iPhones). | | 4) Once someone buys (e.g. an iPhone 6S) used for $50 you | can immediately start making them an iCloud customer for | recurring revenue. | | tldr; I think Apple views used device sales as a lost | purchase for them instead of the massive subsidy that it | is in terms of the cost associated with onboarding a new | customer. (Apple should be overjoyed that someone is | willing to sell a first-time prospective Apple customer | an iPhone 6S for $50. The factory couldn't make them the | phone wholesale for that price, and it gets someone into | the ecosystem). | GeekyBear wrote: | >if they're not guaranteeing security updates then you | still can't rely on it | | As opposed to Google only offering two years of OS updates | and an additional three years of security updates after | that on the Pixel 6? | | Sorry, but every single flagship iPhone since 2011 has | gotten between five and seven years of OS updates. Then | there are additional years of security updates after that. | For example, the $399 OG iPhone SE got seven years of OS | updates. | | Google needs to step up their game. They don't even have | the Qualcomm excuse now that they are having their own | custom SOC fabbed. | christophilus wrote: | Google is absurd. Apple is just bad. | | My laptops (Linux) last until they die, and it takes a | long time for them to die. I'd love a phone that does | that. | augustl wrote: | Apparently, the reason Apple dropped support for iPhone 7 is | performance on the new lock screen. Pretty lame if that's the | case, Apple has usually been good with supporting all devices | as long as the hardware allows it (for example, hardware level | secure enclave was required at a certain version of iOS) | alwillis wrote: | _Apparently, the reason Apple dropped support for iPhone 7 is | performance on the new lock screen._ | | It's more likely the fact the iPhone 7 only has 2GB of RAM | and two cores, not to mention missing the Neural Engine, the | image processor and other features on Apple's latest SoCs | that iOS 16 requires for some of its features. | | Most of major features of iOS 16 would have to be removed to | run on an iPhone 7. | Jtsummers wrote: | I was looking at that, the iPhone 8 (supported) has a | 6-core CPU, 4 high efficiency cores, but also 2GB of RAM in | the plain iPhone 8, 3GB in the Plus. So if it's anything, | it'll be in the GPU or the 2 extra cores, that marks the | critical differentiator for performance. | alwillis wrote: | But even the iPhone 8 doesn't support all of the features | of iOS 16: | | * Live Text | | * can't send emojis in iMessage using Siri | | * can't ask Siri about apps | | * offline Siri support for HomeKit, Intercom, Voicemail | | * being able to smoothly switch between voice and typing | when using dictation | | * adding medications using the camera | | * Door Detection in Magnifier | | * Image search in more apps | anonuser123456 wrote: | It is a extremely hard to maintain differential software | features across hardware product lines. What 'sounds lame' | may translate into significantly added complexity to the | maintenance process. | theideaofcoffee wrote: | I think with all of their resources, Apple of all companies | could dig deep and stretch a little bit to make that | happen. | anonuser123456 wrote: | It would make their product worse. | | As someone that has worked on this very problem for 20 | years, I can say with somewhat confidence Apples choice | is the right one. | stouset wrote: | They quite literally already are. Find me a manufacturer | that comes anywhere close to supporting devices for as | long as Apple does. | tshaddox wrote: | Apple does, with all of their resources, dig much deeper | and provide OS updates to much older device models than | any mobile device manufacturer I know of. | BuckRogers wrote: | You can blame their competition for not beating them out | at longterm support on that front. Apple is already | leading the market supporting iOS this long. I used my | last iPhone for 7 years, unfathomable on any other | platform than iOS. | | I hope their competitors step it up and beat Apple out on | grade A support. I'm seeing them fall further behind in | every metric. My iPhone 12 mini that I bought on launch | day "just works". | [deleted] | airstrike wrote: | Why throw money away? | m3kw9 wrote: | E waste, no no don't throw it out. You can use 99% of the | apps even without ios16. It's only when individual app | developers phase out support for ios15 typically 2-3 years | after. Facebook, YouTube etc still supports even iOS 12 | WrtCdEvrydy wrote: | Actually, you can download the newer version of an app on a | newer iphone and then download a version that works on the | old iphone from the Purchased page. | | Apple makes it difficult but keeping my iPhone 5S is still | going years after iOS 12 is no longer "cool" | 2muchcoffeeman wrote: | I'm impressed by how long you kept it going! My iPhone 5 | and 6 were still going until last year. | KennyBlanken wrote: | Why would you be keeping an 5S "still going" when you can | buy an 8, SE, or an X/Xs/Xr, for a song and get vastly | better performance, battery life, wifi and cellular? | | The A7 is _dogshit_ slow - I have an iPad with the A7 (or | maybe it 's the A9) and it's unusably slow for even | simple things like apps from newspapers and library | e-reader apps; you can watch the page assemble. Even | waking the iPad with the home button is slow. On my | A11-powered phone these apps run smooth as butter. | | A 5S supports 11 of the LTE bands versus 24 bands of the | 8. That alone is worth the upgrade, for the greater | chance of being able to make or receive an important | call. | | How much time are you wasting on silly work-arounds just | to be a retro-tech hipster pretending it's cool to use a | completely outdated and inferior-in-every-way piece of | hardware for absolutely no reason? | Xylakant wrote: | I stuck with an iPhone SE of the first generation until I | really needed multi-sim this year. The form factor is | great, no other phone is that small. Battery life was ok, | too. Why not stick with hardware that does the job? If it | works for him, great. Better for the environment, too. | Cheaper as well. | christophilus wrote: | OK. I'm convinced. I really don't use any 3rd party apps | other than Brave and my banking app, so as long as those | work and I keep getting security updates, my cheap ass is | good to go. | yabones wrote: | Well, looks like it's the end of the line for my 1st gen SE. It's | been a good run. I'll miss you, little guy. | | Looks like my other options for a small phone are 12/13 mini or | possibly the 2nd/3rd gen SE. But not nearly as compact as the 4" | SE. | throwanem wrote: | I switched to a 12 mini last year, after my last 1st gen SE | took a drop that damaged it beyond practical repair. They | aren't _that_ different in size, and it didn 't take me as long | to acclimate as I'd expected, especially when I found I do | quite like having a larger display and smaller bezels - | especially since few if any apps or websites are still tested | on 4.7"-class displays like the 1st gen SE's. | | There's definitely an inflection point - I also have a Galaxy | 10+ for work and still find it uncomfortably large. The 12 mini | seems to fall right in a sweet spot for me. | sockaddr wrote: | 2nd gen SE owner here: It was a great little phone, but the | batteries are terrible and terribly inadequate. You were | warned. | vbezhenar wrote: | You can use iOS 15. Apple is known to supply security updates | to old iOS versions for a few years. | Eric_WVGG wrote: | I just bought a 13 Mini about an hour ago (waiting for the $100 | price drop)... don't get the 12 Mini, you're really gonna want | that extra battery life | SSLy wrote: | 12 mini isn't available from Apple anymore | vesrah wrote: | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FG8R3LL/A/refurbished- | iph... | SSLy wrote: | OK, new ip12m, or outside of USA. | layer8 wrote: | Also the RAM sizes doubled from 12 to 13. | o_m wrote: | It looks like I'm going to keep my iPhone 13 mini for the next | 7 years, or until it won't receive any updates anymore. | empressplay wrote: | I just ordered a 'refurbished' iPhone 8 plus off of Amazon to | replace my SE -- it's slightly bigger than the second | generation SE but it has a second telephoto camera so... if I'm | going to be forced to have a larger phone then that's | sufficient compensation. Also it still has a fingerprint | sensor! | Jtsummers wrote: | The 13 mini is only slightly larger than the SE (2016). | Dimensions: Model Height Width Depth | SE 4.87" 2.31" 0.3" Mini 5.18" 2.53" | 0.301" (strangely precise) Diff +0.31" +0.22" | +0.001" | | The screen goes from 4" to 5.4", which (for me) was worth the | slight increase in size. I'm not going to say it's as compact | as the SE (2016), but it's not a huge difference (nowhere near | the difference of the regular sized 13 and 14 models). The mini | is also smaller than the later SE models (except for depth, | they are slightly slimmer). | GloriousKoji wrote: | As a lover of the original SE and a a Mini 13 owner the HUGE | increase in thickness is what really bothers me with the size | change. Their official thickness spec only measures the main | body of the phone which is virtually a zero change in size | but the camera bump makes it's thickest point about 50% | thicker. | Jtsummers wrote: | I did forget about the camera bump, but I don't believe the | numbers work out that it's adding .15" to the thickness of | the phone on its own. I had a recent chance to compare the | SE (2016) to my 13 Mini (my mother still has the original | SE but is likely to upgrade soon, I was recommending the | mini since, other than the home button, it mostly met her | needs and would provide a better display for her aging | eyes) and it's definitely not 50% thicker at any point. | That would have been quite noticeable. | layer8 wrote: | It's also markedly heavier. Despite the nominal size | increase being small, the feel is totally different. | Jtsummers wrote: | I guess 25% heavier sounds substantial, but a change from | 4 oz to 5 oz is not that big. (113g -> 140g) | gridder wrote: | You can already download the RC with the public beta profile. | Released few minutes ago. | minimaxir wrote: | watchOS 9 also September 12th unsurprisingly. | dkrich wrote: | Interesting to see the similarities to watchOS | robot9000 wrote: | Huge! | | But the bigger surprise is that there's literally nothing in it | that I care about despite being an iOS user. | | Also, multiple stops on Maps? That's Google maps 15 years ago. | t-writescode wrote: | 15 years ago? Wow! Seeing Google Maps came out 17 years ago, | that's really early in their lifetime! | ezfe wrote: | Doesn't really matter if Google Maps had it first, I like Apple | Maps more and I'm excited for the feature. | | Google Maps UI is a mess - only real advantage is (usually) | better POI data. Routing quality is the same in my experience. | Waterluvian wrote: | Is anyone else anxious about updates? | | I used to be so pumped for them when I was a teen. They'd unlock | a world of new opportunities. | | Now I just feel anxious that there's change for change sake to | justify the resourcing of the design teams and that they'll make | things I'm used to worse all for a bunch of features I'll never | use or want. | | I don't want more features. There's so many already and they're | really cluttering. | | Like when they moved the address bar to the bottom in Safari. | Bad. Shame. But they let you revert it. I'm just waiting for that | team to decide, "no those users are idiots. It's been a year. | Time to remove the setting and impose our new vision on existing | users." | | ...it's me isn't it? This sounds like old man yells at cloud | speak. | highwaylights wrote: | They won't make them functionally worse. They'll outright break | them, and then move on, then eventually once everyone has | stopped using it because it's so broken they'll quietly remove | it. | layer8 wrote: | I mean, you don't _have_ to update, at least not right away. | Just wait a couple of months for the new version to stabilize | and see what the reports say. In the past I've sometimes | skipped two or three major updates to reduce the frequency of | disruptions. But I agree that everything has become | increasingly cluttered and decreasingly "it just works". | noahtallen wrote: | Maybe not just you, but probably more rare. I'm pretty excited | for many of the new features coming in this update! (Lock | Screen customization, live activities, and iMessage edits being | a few very powerful and practical additions!) | | I also liked the safari address bar change, as it's objectively | more ergonomic for thumb use. | | Many recent iOS updates have significantly expanded power user | features too: we have shortcuts and automations, customizable | focus modes, default browser/mail apps, Home Screen widgets, | etc. Most of which the HN crowd (and many others) have been | asking for for years! | | In fact, we're at the point that people can technically | customize app icons. | | I think these updates objectively are unlocking a world of | possibilities. The features I listed above a pretty powerful -- | especially shortcuts and automations. | | It's ok to not be in that headspace anymore -- but many others | still are :) You can always stick around on older iOS versions! | And I'd argue there are vanishingly few new features that | dramatically change the way you use your phone. The address bar | being a good example. | [deleted] | scottydelta wrote: | I recently published an article[1] on How Apple could improve the | VPNs experience on iOS. I hope someone at Apple finally decides | to improve it on the next update. | | It surprises me how Apple continues to add a lot of fancy feature | and ignore basic day to day usability features like these. | | [1] https://medium.com/@contact_54652/how-can-apple-improve- | the-... | poglet wrote: | The improvements with photo sharing seem promising. Right now my | partner and I have Dropbox Photo Sync enabled on our iPhones, but | viewing the shared photos must be done through the Dropbox app. | | But now with the new improvements it looks like there is an | automatic option "you can share photos instantly right from | Camera, choose to share automatically when other shared library | members are nearby". | toomuchtodo wrote: | Passkeys gonna be fire. Goodbye password managers, credential | stuffing, and phishing attacks! | | (photo deduplication is nice too btw, been a long time coming) | isatty wrote: | Have they added the feature to have a locked (and hidden, I | know that hidden already exists) folder for pictures? | toomuchtodo wrote: | That is my understanding. FaceID for hidden and deleted | photos. | isatty wrote: | Amazing. I cannot believe it's taken this long but that's | amazing. Upgrading first chance I get. | jdadj wrote: | Indeed, but the lock-in potential of passkeys [1] is | concerning. | | [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/90755838/theres-a-big-problem- | wi... | PassageNick wrote: | That is concerning. Have to weigh that against the added | security, I guess. | | The article does talk about how tools like 1Password could | allow for PassKey sharing without vendor lock-in. | bioemerl wrote: | > Passkeys gonna be fire | | Knowing apple they're going to be another avenue to lock in. | Now not only does switching your device been that you have to | leave apple's ecosystem, it also means you lose all your | passwords for all your websites. | | I'm honestly hoping this does not take off. | thefourthchime wrote: | I imagine you'll have the option to still have a password, | for those that aren't concerned about Apple lock it'll be a | nice benefit. | PassageNick wrote: | That would kind of defeat the purpose, no? | Spivak wrote: | No? At least not for convenience. On my phone, instant | login, anywhere else, enter password. | derefr wrote: | The point of passkeys isn't convenience (that's what | things like TouchID/FaceID are for); the point is to | obviate password phishing, brute-forcing, and password | database leaks. Having a "backup" password removes every | one of those benefits. | joshstrange wrote: | > Knowing apple they're going to be another avenue to lock | in. | | I mean it's just Webauthn under the hood, I'd bet money you | can export them from keychain into another tool like | 1Password or similar. | thebitstick wrote: | Time to pay up! Exporting is impossible on Apple's | implementation of Passkeys. Even exporting your entire | keychain of passwords doesn't result in any WebAuthn keys, | just standard passwords. Tested on macOS 13 and iOS 16 | betas. I sincerely doubt this will change with the official | releases. Google's implementation is probably the same. | Microsoft hasn't done a thing yet to support passkeys | besides what Edge and Windows Hello do. | joshstrange wrote: | Interesting, I'm not running the betas and I searched a | bunch before I posted and couldn't find it mentioned one | way or the other. I hope that changes sometime in the | future, though I only use 1Password anyways. | | > Time to pay up! | | What's your favorite charity? | scrollaway wrote: | > _What's your favorite charity?_ | | Not GP but the EFF is the charity most likely to help | successfully push for changes here :) I am sending them | 50 bucks in your name. Care to double it? | highwaylights wrote: | I dunno. Passkeys scare the crap out of me. | | If I get arbitrarily locked out of a Google/Apple/Microsoft | account then my logins for absolutely everything go up in smoke | too. | | (Assumes the key is a composite pair of local passkey + cloud | account secret) | kylehotchkiss wrote: | Fire so long as sites implement them. Given how "quickly" | yubikeys or even just touch ID webauthn have been going around, | it doesn't seem very imminent :( Hopefully Firebase or AWS | offer an easily accessible way to add passkeys etc as auth | methods. | cheeze wrote: | On the flipside, Yubikey and whatnot are still pretty niche. | | That being said, I was hoping to see more touch ID webauthn | so I'm not super hopeful. But we can hope! | sebk wrote: | There's nothing special RPs have to do in order to support | Passkeys. It's just WebAuthn that happens to be synced. If | the site supports WebAuthn it already supports Passkeys (As | long as they're not doing significantly less common things | like checking for attestation, which Passkey-enabled | credentials won't do). | jacobr wrote: | The iPhone 8 only compatibility means that many teams will be | stuck supporting Safari 15.6 for a very long time. Anything under | "no support" on this page will continue to be out of reach for | years to come | https://caniuse.com/?compare=safari+15.6&compareCats=all#res... | ezfe wrote: | It's good that Safari is much less shit than it used to be... | bnt wrote: | Next to CarPlay it says "Vehicle announcement coming in late | 2023" - what is this related to? Showing car-related information | in CarPlay, or are they announcing a car of their own? | jackson1442 wrote: | I think that's surrounding which vehicles will support the | CarPlay dashboard. | berberous wrote: | I'm not sure, but a while ago they announced a sort of expanded | CarPlay where things like the speedometer, fuel gage, etc were | shown in the CarPlay format, so I assume that. | [deleted] | antipaul wrote: | Late 2023 is when they will announce the list of cars that | support this radical expansion of CarPlay to encompass the | whole dashboard, as in the image | CharlesW wrote: | I believe this means, "late next year, we'll be announcing 2024 | model-year vehicles that will be the first to support next-gen | CarPlay experiences". | Jaepa wrote: | Likely the former. They announced a new version of Carplay | during WWDC. Basically rather than just applying to the | infotainment system, it will also include information from the | dashboard, and climate systems. | | https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/09/apples-2023-carpl... | WXLCKNO wrote: | Really hope that this will be compatible with iDrive 8 on my | upcoming BMW. | BoorishBears wrote: | This is something that essentially replaces iDrive and your | entire gauge cluster with CarPlay: it will be a very long | time before BMW supports it, if ever | theshrike79 wrote: | The chance of an "Apple Car" is exactly zero. Even actual | manufacturers are having huge issues producing enough. | | BUT tighter Apple/CarPlay integration with existing brands is | most definitely coming. | | Soon your iPhone will handle the whole instrument cluster and | infotainment for your car as well as functioning as a key. | smm11 wrote: | I got one or two spammer calls a week on TMobile over the course | of maybe 8 years. | | Six months on Verizon and I get more spam calls a week than those | 8 years. | avtar wrote: | Apple's call and sms spam filtering remains subpar to say the | least. When I had a Pixel, I had the option to let the OS | transcribe what the potential spammer was saying and end the | call. It's puzzling why Apple isn't doing more here. | reaperducer wrote: | _Apple's call and sms spam filtering remains subpar to say the | least._ | | It's my understanding that this is largely because of the | carriers. | | Phone and text spam filtering came to the iPhone in China long | before it hit other countries. I only know a couple of people | in China, and neither are in tech, but they say it's because | spam was absolutely rampant so the government leaned on the | carriers to fix it, and the iPhone spam filtering appeared a | short time later. | | There's no shortage of Chinese users on HN, so maybe one of | them can explain further, or refute what I've been told. | anormaluser wrote: | Is it true? I'm also curious about it. | blibble wrote: | I think they have a patent on it | thefourthchime wrote: | robokiller does a decent job on ios | Daltzn wrote: | Give the app bouncer a try. I been able stop almost all spam | texts. | MR4D wrote: | Select "Silence unknown callers" and you're done. | | Last month I had a flurry of spam texts and calls. I moved the | slider to the "enable" side a few weeks ago and have had zero | issues since. | [deleted] | MR4D wrote: | For those of you that want to learn more about this feature, | Apple has a page describing how it works as well as how calls | get through. | | It's a simple read and worth the minute or so if you use the | feature. | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32757077 | wl wrote: | I do this. | | I missed a hospital calling about a family member. They | should have left a voicemail, but they didn't. | frizkie wrote: | This is a great feature but it's a huge double-edged sword. I | need to remember to turn it off when I'm expecting a call | from an unpredictable number, and then I need to remember to | turn it back on again after I receive the call. It would be | great if I could turn it off for some number of hours or | days. | nytesky wrote: | I use a Google Voice number for all of my delivery, | business, etc phone calls. It has built in verbal call | screening and the smarter spam filtering, and thus my | personal iPhone # can be exclusive for my white listed | personal calls. | lelandfe wrote: | Sadly, soo many services refuse to accept Voice numbers. | Most recent example: I tried to submit _positive_ | feedback to an airline and their form rejects any Google | Voice numbers, mandating a "real" phone number instead. | nytesky wrote: | True. Would they accept Ooma number? Wish I could pay | like $5/month for a forward only number that worked | everywhere. | gnicholas wrote: | I use GV also and use call screening. But it still rings | through for me quite a bit with spam, so I now keep DND | turned on, and if I get VMs then I return the call. Not | ideal, but better than giving out my real phone number. | wilg wrote: | My strategy is to have my voicemail say that I don't get | calls from unknown numbers and to text or call again if it | is urgent. | zonkedwheel wrote: | I've had the same issue if I am expecting a call but not | sure what number it will ne. But iIf you already know the | number, adding that to contacts will solve the problem ? | alistairSH wrote: | Numbers I didn't know and had to turn off "silence | unknown callers"... recruiters/hiring managers, freight | deliveries, doctors, pharmacy. | | The feature mostly works, but needing to remember to | disable it when a call is expected is annoying. | [deleted] | CPLX wrote: | People always say this but if this is true: | | 1) You have a kid AND 2) You're not currently looking right | at that kid | | Then you need to pick up calls from random numbers basically | every time. Just the way life is. | dereg wrote: | I would have this on if it wasn't for the fact that I get | calls from delivery drivers, who all have unknown numbers, | and for whom the notification must be immediate. | [deleted] | wilg wrote: | It's strange they don't have some API that would let Lyft | or Doordash or whoever provide caller ID for this use case. | giarc wrote: | My carrier has an option that forces unknown callers to | enter a 2 digit number to proceed with call. I add known | contacts to my list online and they don't get the prompt. | Works well, however I now get a lot of spam texts which it | doesn't work for. | robbyking wrote: | I'm always paranoid that I'm going to miss a call from one | of the million numbers that come from my kiddo's school. | derwiki wrote: | Buy a Twilio number that forwards to your real number. Then | whoever has that number can call it, and it will ring you | from the known Twilio number. Add to address book and | voila! | dereg wrote: | This is a simple and neat idea. I'll try it on the | weekend. | clamprecht wrote: | Do spammers not call Twilio numbers? | [deleted] | tshaddox wrote: | I assume the spammers buy "known active real person phone | numbers" from somewhere (probably the awful carriers | themselves), so it might be less likely for them to find | a new Twilio number. But as soon as you give the phone | number to some company that sells (or accidentally leaks) | their customer data, that number will be burned too. | derefr wrote: | I don't know about calls, but I definitely get spam SMSes | on my persistent Twilio SMS numbers. | ako wrote: | Hospitals and MDs often use unrecognizable phone numbers, you | may want to receive those. | protomyth wrote: | T-Mobile does this and also labels a lot of numbers "Scam | Likely". Its been really helpful. I too wish Apple would do | more, but the carrier can do a bit. | ljm wrote: | I'd like it if you could just have an ephemeral call list. I | don't want to add an estate agent or recruiter to my main | contact list, but I'd like to see their name come up if they | call back or I get another call from them. | | Just make it a contact with like a 7 day TTL or something. If | it's longer term, save it proper. | | I mention this because the old Caller ID setup doesn't really | work any more. | the_mar wrote: | Boy do i have a lifehack for you. Buy a phone number with a | random area code, like ohio or something, all the spam calls | come from surrounding area codes. | mwint wrote: | But then my calls will come from the random area code too. | It'd be neat if you could do a dual phone number, where your | CID on outbound calls shows as your local area code, but you | give out the foreign area code for inbound calls. | | But then you mess up callbacks. | 98codes wrote: | > But then my calls will come from the random area code too | | Nobody will care. Everybody's cell number is just a record | of where they lived when they got their first phone; people | you call will have you in their contact list most likely. | axxl wrote: | You misunderstand slightly. All the calls from the area | code matching your phone number are more likely to be spam | (spammers matching you to appear legit). So unless you call | people in that particular area, you won't be matching their | area code, so you won't look like a spammer. And unless you | happen to know a lot of people in that area, you won't get | calls from that area that appear to be spam. | sangnoir wrote: | > So unless you call people in that particular area, you | won't be matching their area code, so you won't look like | a spammer | | You're misunderstanding them too, I suspect. One could | equally assume that a call coming from an area code | they've never been to, 5 states away _is_ spam - so this | trick works if you do not make a lot of calls. | xsmasher wrote: | > One could equally assume that a call coming from an | area code they've never been to, 5 states away is spam | | Not equally. I have an area code from the opposite coast. | If I get a call from that area code, it is 100% spam. | Spammers just love outing themselves by spoofing the same | area code of the person they are calling. | | A call from any other area code is only 30% chance of | being spam. | briffle wrote: | Your missing the point. Spammers call you from a spoofed | number so that you think its someone near you based on the | area code. I lived just a town over an invisible line in | 2009, and ordered a new phone, and got an area code that | the only other person I know that has a number in that area | code is my wife. (920) | | the ONLY calls that call me from that area code are | spammers. if I get calls from any other area code, only 20% | or so are spammers. Others are sales/marketing for IT | companies, etc, and calls from one of the 2 area codes that | cover my area where I actually live are usually all local | businesses, etc. If I had to guess, I would say 85-90% of | the 'spam callers' call and spoof the 920 area code when | they dial me. that drastically cuts down on my automated | messages about a car warranty that is about to expire. | [deleted] | renewiltord wrote: | Yeah, I did this. But it's not enough. Most phone number | blocking apps get really slow blocking a couple of area | codes. Number Shield loads _very_ slowly on my iPhone 13 with | just 919 and 984 blocked. But they do fire prober calls from | other locations too. The interesting thing is that they never | actually say anything on the phone _or_ in text. It 's solely | some sort of DoS against me. Weird. | limeblack wrote: | This works until you get calls from DC. | encryptluks2 wrote: | Just have the US start sending missiles to spam call centers | and people will stop real quick. | wwweston wrote: | One of the things I've noticed recently is that spam call | numbers have gotten smarter -- somehow they're figuring out | numbers corresponding to regions that I spend time in that | _aren 't_ related to my area code or central exchange... | ffhhj wrote: | Meta smarter | kemayo wrote: | There's a useful iOS app called Number Shield that lets you | block all calls coming from numbers that match the first six | digits of your phone number. That's the most common spoofing | technique, so it really does help. | | E.g. if your number is (555)555-1234 it'll block anything | from (555)555-0000 to (555)555-9999. | | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/number-shield/id1319082167 | [deleted] | NonNefarious wrote: | Actually, the more-telling part of the number is the | exchange. They'll often match yours, which is dumb as hell. | | In the age where most phones are mobile, this whole "scheme" | is pitifully ignorant. | kshacker wrote: | Spamming, like many other things in life, is a field of | bleeding edge technology. :) They were not using your area | code a decade back, then they realized your area code works | better - it probably did for a while. When it loses | effectiveness, they will move on to other patterns they | have discovered. | | Also, A/B testing is not just for good guys. | hospitalJail wrote: | stouset wrote: | > Other companies compete over best or newest features. | Camera location/exterior shape forces their status-conscious | demographic to buy new phones. | | Frankly this kind of comment has no place on Hacker News. | | There are many, many reasons to be critical of Apple. | "Doesn't compete on features and only cares about what the | device looks like superficially because their customers are | sheep who only care about status" is not only a lazy take, | but also doesn't even remotely describe the reality in which | we live. | | > I don't see what is wrong with calling out a very rational | decision to continue making high status products rather than | deviate into high tech products. | | I genuinely can't fathom how one could conclude that Apple as | a company isn't investing in technology. I mean, even at a | superficial level, you're talking about a company that in- | houses their own chip design and has dominated the mobile CPU | market since doing so. They're very competitive in the | desktop space in compute power with their very first chip | line in this product category, and are absolutely crushing | the existing players on performance per watt. | | The've leveraged this advantage into being effectively the | only meaningful player in the wearables space other than | Garmin. Satellite integration into the phone is a direct shot | across the bow of devices like the Garmin inReach, and the | greater battery life (plus satellite integration) in the | Apple Watch Max is going to start eating away at a chunk of | Garmin's marketshare for GPS-tracking watches. Though Garmin | still wins here for serious backcountry enthusiasts who spend | multiple days in a row out of reach, Apple is leaving them a | smaller and smaller margin in which to operate. | | I stand by my original comment that this characterization of | Apple is not reflective about of our reality. For Apple's | many faults, they are _extremely_ competitive from a | technological perspective. Precisely because they are so | unbelievably good at identifying how and when to apply a | technological advance to achieve the largest possible impact | for their customers. | willyt wrote: | That must be a US thing? I never get spam calls on my iPhone | and only very rarely a spam text; maybe a couple of times a | year I get the 'you've got a parcel with a fee to pay' scam. | sensitivefrost wrote: | It's definitely not a US thing. | vbezhenar wrote: | I'm using yandex app and it detects spam calls. So iOS does | have some hooks for that. You just need to find app for your | location. | pwpw wrote: | It's the biggest thing I've missed after switching from a Pixel | to an iPhone this week. In my first day of iPhone ownership, I | received more spam/text calls than in an entire year with a | Pixel. | dchuk wrote: | Why would you switch the same week they were going to | announce all new stuff? | pwpw wrote: | There's a 2 week return period, and I wanted to be sure I'd | be fine switching to iOS before buying an expensive new | device. Part of the reason I'm switching is the new Pro | models are a lot closer to Android phones with features | like always on display. Based on the rumors, I was pretty | sure what to expect today, so I have just been onboarding | myself with iOS yesterday and today and can return the | phone by the time I should have the new one in hand. | justusthane wrote: | Odd strategy. Why wouldn't you just return the 14 Pro if | you didn't like it? | pwpw wrote: | Because I'm immediately leaving town. I can grab it, | quickly set it up, and know what to expect. | l72 wrote: | Still no ability to have separate accounts on an ipad... I sort | of understand that a phone is a single user OS, but the ipad most | certainly should be a multi user OS. | amelius wrote: | Apple's products are closer to a personal computer than most | PCs ever were ... | Gigachad wrote: | There will never be multi user support on the iPad until the | iPad has some real competition. Apple has absolutely no | incentive to invest resources in to multi user when it's much | more likely that you will buy two iPads than buy an android | tablet. | patrickserrano wrote: | If you don't mind using MDM you can get something akin to | roaming profiles on iPads. It's an enterprise feature, but it | was introduced sometime during iOS 13. | | I agree though, native multi-user support would be great. | Though, I'd hope it's better than what we got on tvOS. | K7PJP wrote: | I'm starting to think this will never happen. | pkulak wrote: | This won't bring ambient display to older phones, will it? | MBCook wrote: | No. That requires new display tech. | ChuckMcM wrote: | This may be an unpopular opinion but I find iOS to be a much | better appliance OS than Android, Chrome, or Windows. That said | they are getting close to the 'computer' gap. | | Back when computers were super expensive (like millions of $) the | owners (or lessors) would try to get them to do as many things as | possible all the time so maximize the "value" of their | investment. What was truly revolutionary about microprocessors | was that they were inexpensive enough that you could dedicate | them to doing just one thing. | | But then the capabilities of microprocessors started to greatly | exceed the level of computation you needed to do that "one thing" | and so the age of "featuritis" was born where the "wasted" | compute resource in the dedicated microprocessor could do | something to differentiate or add value to a product. That could | be as silly as adding more indicator lights, but usually it was a | way of altering the thing the appliance did. Today, nobody things | twice about a washing machine that has a combinatorial set of 20 | different wash cycles, versus the simple "water level", "water | temperature", "number of cycles" that was achievable with just | simple mechanical switches and a few dumb sensors. | | However, it seems we might inflect again, as even cheaper | microprocessors make even less expensive appliances available. | Further, the subsumption of dozens of devices into the "phone" | (copier, camera, recorder, navigator, television, Etc.) has | created its own "traffic jam" where you might be watching TV on | your device, and suddenly there is something you want to take a | picture of and call someone about it. Multiplexing the device | kind of works but it can also become annoying. | | It will be interesting to me to see how this more "computer os | like" version of iOS will fare, and whether or not multi- | functioning on a single devices develops into a negative feature | vs the current economic win. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-09-07 23:00 UTC)