[HN Gopher] iOS 16 Available September 12th
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       iOS 16 Available September 12th
        
       Author : yottabyte47
       Score  : 211 points
       Date   : 2022-09-07 18:53 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | For those with older devices, a list of supported (& unsupported)
       | hardware -
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_16#Supported_devices
        
       | zahma wrote:
       | I'll be waiting for reviews and bug reports. I've found that for
       | the last releases, subsequent patches have been worth the wait.
        
       | cloutchaser wrote:
       | Any news on SKAdnetwork 4 release date? I can't find anything
       | online.
        
       | gravelc wrote:
       | Been on the b for a while; it's a good OS. Particularly like the
       | ability to use the iPhone as a Zoom cam. 3D printed a phone mount
       | and everything works pretty seamlessly. Lock Screen widgets are
       | nice too.
       | 
       | Stage manager on iPadOS doesn't do it for me though.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | A great maps feature would be to even let me choose google maps
       | when clicking on an address in iMessage.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | My country does not have bike navigation options, so you still
         | need gmaps a lot. I really hope they will add it soon.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | I'm just happy that a decade later Apple is finally catching up
       | to the industry standard home screen and lock screen
       | notifications/widget experience that they resisted so hard for
       | some reason.
        
       | ronnocoep wrote:
       | Think Apple will ever agree to allow RCS into the iMessage
       | ecosystem?
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | It's a Google-backed project, so I'd wager the probability
         | around "Google will add iMessage and AirTag support to Android"
         | -levels =)
        
           | DesiLurker wrote:
           | my understanding based on google messaging is that google is
           | interested but Apple prefers to have its walled garden.
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | It's not really Google-backed, more Google-embraced. Google
           | didn't even add support on their own carrier (Google Fi)
           | until 2019.
        
       | gman83 wrote:
       | Do people still get excited for these smartphone OS updates? I
       | remember a couple of years ago I couldn't wait to see what the
       | new features were. Now I don't think I've changed the way I use
       | my phone for several years.
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | I'm excited to be able to use my phone as a camera for video
         | calls. The quality difference between my phone and MacBook
         | webcam is quite large.
        
       | Kkoala wrote:
       | As a non-iOS user it looks like a great update, but at the same
       | time I thought that many of these were already features like in
       | Android
        
         | ezfe wrote:
         | Sure, but if you look at Android 13 it's basically all things
         | that are already in iOS
         | 
         | From the list, I only see two features that don't have equals
         | already in iOS - both related to Material You.
         | 
         | https://blog.google/products/android/android-13/
        
       | glitchinc wrote:
       | After all of the iterations of iOS, there is still no way to have
       | only the first new/unread message per SMS/iMessage thread
       | generate a notification--particularly the notification sound or
       | tone.
       | 
       | I find the feature would be useful in all situations, but would
       | be especially useful in group threads. I don't need to hear a
       | ding every time someone in a group thread sends a message if I
       | don't have my phone in my hand. One ding generated when the first
       | unread message is received will do just fine.
        
         | patrickserrano wrote:
         | Not the same thing by a long shot, but you can turn on "Hide
         | Alerts" for group chats. My wife has all of her long running
         | group chats set to this to prevent alerts all day when her
         | friends are chatting.
        
           | muhammadusman wrote:
           | Yup, this has been very helpful. Coming back to 20+ messages
           | where 50-75% of them are reactions was annoying to get alerts
           | for.
        
       | kemotep wrote:
       | Looking forward for PassKey integration. Then the wait for my
       | programs and accounts to integrate and allow for passwordless
       | logins.
        
         | PassageNick wrote:
         | I'm looking forward to this as well.
        
       | noncoml wrote:
       | Apple, for iOS 17 can you please let me freely rearrange the apps
       | on the screen? Having them shuffle every time I add or remove an
       | app is really a pain
        
         | easrng wrote:
         | There are a few workarounds.
         | 
         | Clear Spaces https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clear-
         | spaces/id1532666619
         | 
         | iEmpty https://iempty.tooliphone.net/
         | 
         | MAKEOVR https://www.makeovr.io/
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | I'd like to be able to log into my Apple ID account and do this
         | on a PC. I hate sliding them around various pages with my
         | finger.
        
           | jacobn wrote:
           | I thought that was available via iTunes on Windows?
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | It used to be possible with iTunes, but they removed that
           | feature in 12.7.
        
           | kshacker wrote:
           | And I think years back you used to be able to do it from
           | iTunes when the phone was connected with a wire. It
           | disappeared over the years probably when they moved to
           | Finder, but I think maybe even earlier.
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
        
           | jdlyga wrote:
           | You've been able to move apps around pretty easily for at
           | least a decade. You can even remove them and just access them
           | from the app drawer or have multiple copies on the same page.
           | What he's talking about is not have them snap to an app grid.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | If you keep posting in the flamewar style to HN, we're going
           | to have to ban you. I just asked you about this the other
           | day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32718712.
           | 
           | If you'd please review
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to
           | the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
        
             | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
             | _> I just asked you about this the other day:
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32718712_
             | 
             | Sorry, my bad, I didn't see your other message since it got
             | buried in hundreds of nested replies and there's no way I
             | was gonna see it.
             | 
             | Also, what guidelines did the other message it break?
        
               | nabakin wrote:
               | Being rude and insulting, I'm sure.
               | 
               | Read the guidelines for comments, your comment violates
               | almost all of the top rules.
               | 
               | > _Be kind_. Don 't be snarky. Have curious conversation;
               | don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't
               | sneer, including at the rest of the community.
               | 
               | > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive
               | 
               | > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead
               | of calling names.
               | 
               | > Eschew flamebait
               | 
               | > Please don't post shallow dismissals
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | _> Being rude and insulting, I'm sure._
               | 
               | And exact which part was rude and insulting?
               | 
               |  _> Be kind. Don 't be snarky. Have curious conversation;
               | don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't
               | sneer, including at the rest of the community.
               | 
               | > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive
               | 
               | > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead
               | of calling names.
               | 
               | > Eschew flamebait
               | 
               | > Please don't post shallow dismissals _
               | 
               | Many comments on HN break at some of those rules you
               | listed on a regular basis, especially on topics that
               | spark a lot of debate, yet they fly. Even racist ones.
               | Why? Saying my comment breaks all those rules, you must
               | be joking.
               | 
               | If you start to split hairs like that and look for
               | interpretations out of context (which I assume my comment
               | was read out of context, without following the full
               | thread) then I'm pretty sure many, may comments here can
               | be said break some rules.
               | 
               | Look, I mean no disrespect, and I have apologized and
               | corrected my mistake, and I promise I try my best to
               | follow the rules as I love this community and love
               | contributing here for the best, but what you said and
               | what I experienced sometimes, feels like rule enforcement
               | is random, subjective and sometimes personally targeted.
               | 
               | Since this is offtopic and don't want to discuss this
               | here, @dang, could you please delete this thread.
        
               | tptacek wrote:
               | Fair question. Easy answer. If it's some random HN user,
               | then maybe it's rule lawyering. If it's 'dang, it's not.
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | You can rearrange apps on their screen, you just can't have
           | gaps between them or move them "freely" in a way that they
           | alwasy snap to an invisible grid...which isn't really
           | something I have thought about ever.
        
             | teekert wrote:
             | I got used to it (especially when things are settled) but
             | when you are fresh from android it can be annoying that you
             | have to fill the top rows before your can place your fav
             | apps within reach of your thumb. It feels very wrong.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | Use blank icons to fill in the rows. Kludgy? Sure, but it
               | gets the job done:
               | 
               | https://david-smith.org/blank.html
        
           | permo-w wrote:
           | they mean they can't have an app floating in space not in a
           | nice pretty queue next to another app. not that they can't
           | rearrange them at all
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | > Freeform. Freeform is a productivity app where you and your
       | collaborators can bring ideas to life. Jot down notes, share
       | files, and insert web links, documents, video, and audio.
       | 
       | > Coming later this year
       | 
       | Apple going to start offering email too?
        
         | desro wrote:
         | With iCloud Plus you're able to add custom email domains
         | (really nice and tight integration with Cloudflare DNS for all
         | the MX records) -- was a breeze to set up. Haven't put it
         | through it's paces yet, though.
        
           | jws wrote:
           | Weirdly, you can only have three email addresses per domain.
           | So you can't really use it for a typical family domain, even
           | though it supports the family group (which can be six
           | people).
        
             | ezfe wrote:
             | You can create catch-all addresses now, for personal use at
             | least.
        
             | nytesky wrote:
             | The other users in your family group will be able to add 3
             | addresses of their own; the 3 you see are just the email
             | address for your root@yourdomain.com account. User1 will
             | have their own set of 3; login to iCloud.com from one of
             | the family accounts and you'll see.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | I migrated my personal email from Google Workspace to iCloud+
           | a few months ago, and it worked great. No complaints so far.
           | 
           | This guide to using imapsync was invaluable:
           | https://blah.cloud/miscellaneous/migrating-google-
           | workspaces...
        
             | kylehotchkiss wrote:
             | Just be sure to check your spam box more often than you
             | used to. iCloud mail's spam filtering is very aggressive
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | > Apple going to start offering email too?
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MobileMe
         | 
         | Replaced by iCloud later. So it's not something they will do,
         | but something they have been doing for over two decades.
        
           | cachvico wrote:
           | mac.com before MobileMe, still have my @mac.com ;)
        
         | SleepilyLimping wrote:
         | It's frustrating, because this likely won't be usable on
         | Desktop, Windows, or the majority of workspaces. I actually
         | don't mind the Reminders app, but like iMessage, I can't use it
         | on my main Windows desktop, so I don't.
         | 
         | I can count on one hand the amount of times I've FaceTimed
         | someone because of fragmentation in my network with Android.
        
           | ezfe wrote:
           | FaceTime supports joining from the web
        
           | easrng wrote:
           | https://www.icloud.com/reminders/ :)
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | You can use Reminders in the browser.
        
         | artificialLimbs wrote:
         | Teams. Apple is going to start offering Teams.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | christophilus wrote:
       | I'm surprised they aren't using the iPhone 14 in the promo
       | images.
       | 
       | Anyway, looks like my old iPhone 7 is finally going to have to
       | retire. :/ I can't wait for a good Linux phone.
       | 
       | Edit: 7 years of use isn't bad compared to Android, but the phone
       | is still just fine, and it really bothers me that it's turning
       | into e-waste for no good reason.
        
         | MaysonL wrote:
         | Apple is getting ready to release iOS 15.7, which will work on
         | iPhone 7...
        
           | lapcat wrote:
           | Don't expect that to last long. iOS 14.8 was released on
           | September 13, 2021, iOS 14.8.1 on October 26, 2021, and then
           | nothing else.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | iOS 12.5.6 was released 8 days ago for the 5s...
        
               | lapcat wrote:
               | That was a weird one, but nonetheless, here's the list of
               | security update, and there's been nothing for older
               | versions since October 2021.
               | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
               | 
               | Also note that 12.5.6 was for a single actively exploited
               | CVE and no other vulnerabilities.
        
         | Eric_WVGG wrote:
         | come back and let us know how many years that good linux phone
         | gets supported
        
         | wildpeaks wrote:
         | Same, I still love my 7 (which still works perfectly fine
         | despite using it everyday, even still has its original battery
         | and screen) and been avoiding the upgrade until now because of
         | the lack of Home button on the newer models.
         | 
         | I use both iPhone 13 Pro & Pro Max everyday because I do iOS
         | development (among many other things), so it's not like I don't
         | know how to use the newer models, but the Home button is so
         | intuitive I can use the 7 even when I'm half awake whereas I
         | need to pay close attention to the screen on 13.
         | 
         | Not having a Home button is like a keyboard without an Esc key.
        
           | genghisjahn wrote:
           | I've stayed with the SE models for the Home Button. Love the
           | Home Button and not having a phone that's too big or too
           | small. The SE models seem just right. But I hear they don't
           | sell well so who knows how much longer they will be around.
        
           | KennyBlanken wrote:
           | I agree that the home button is invaluable from a UI
           | perspective but for unlocking, it's annoying as hell if you
           | live somewhere it's cold (ie gloves) or get your hands
           | significantly dirty or wet.
        
         | Klonoar wrote:
         | It's not really e-waste given Apple's recycling program, which
         | is generally decent. 7 years of use with an option to recycle
         | it when upgrading is about as good as you'll find.
        
           | CogitoCogito wrote:
           | Do the phones actually get recycled? (This is a genuine
           | question.)
        
             | Klonoar wrote:
             | https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/Apple_Environmental_P
             | r...
             | 
             | Their environmental reports that they release each year
             | indicate that they do, yes. It also looks like there's an
             | audit report in there as well that logs the recycled
             | materials as verified (page 109).
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I would assume nothing other than easy to recycle
             | metal/glass/paper actually gets recycled. It just gets
             | shipped to a developing country and dumped there. I assume
             | if a company hires a third party to "recycle", it is
             | probably cover your ass so they can say they recycled it,
             | and it works pretty well if the third party is in another
             | country.
             | 
             | https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-
             | misled-...
        
         | nytesky wrote:
         | My daughter as an iPhone 6, so its many versions pass and I
         | think they have stopped security patches with this upgrade. How
         | much risk is she of being hacked without those updates -- is
         | there any way to track identified risks?
        
           | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
           | It's the iOS app support that suffers. Apple makes it pretty
           | unbearable to get apps for unsupported devices so I take
           | those and relegate them to single use non-data holding
           | devices like dashcams and other uses.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | As of at least a couple of years ago, I could still
             | redownload "the last compatible version" for my old iPad
             | 1st gen (2010). I was able to download and run Netflix and
             | Plex.
        
               | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
               | Yes, but you must have a nicer iPhone on the same iCloud
               | account that downloads the current version, then you can
               | use the "purchased" page on the old device.
        
               | spockz wrote:
               | Or for some apps that allow family sharing having someone
               | in the family with a nicer iPhone also should work.
        
             | nytesky wrote:
             | Oh that's a bonus for me, I want her to use it basically
             | for phone, imessage, and find my!
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | gorbypark wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure Apple just released a security patch for the
           | iPhone 6 just a week or two ago. Seems like they are keeping
           | "severe" CVEs patches on (some) out of support devices.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | Apple just released a security release - iOS 12.5.6 for the
           | iPhone 5s a few days ago (8/31/2022). I doubt they have
           | stopped releasing security updates for the iPhone 6.
        
             | nytesky wrote:
             | My understanding was they would stop after today!
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | 6 years. iPhone 7 was released in September 2016.
        
         | altairprime wrote:
         | iOS 15 will continue receiving security updates for a while
         | yet, so there's no pressing reason to upgrade. Or you could
         | donate the phone to Apple in case they can melt it down and
         | reuse it instead of shredding it.
        
           | lapcat wrote:
           | > OS 15 will continue receiving security updates for a while
           | yet
           | 
           | iOS 14.8 was released on September 13, 2021, iOS 14.8.1 on
           | October 26, 2021, and then nothing else.
        
             | altairprime wrote:
             | iOS 12.5.6 was released on August 31, 2022, fixing
             | CVE-2022-32894:
             | 
             | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222
        
             | majou wrote:
             | iOS 12.5.6 was released on a week ago.
             | 
             | iOS 15 will be getting patches even if iOS 14 and 13 don't.
        
         | GeekyBear wrote:
         | Apple just released another security update for the 2014 iPhone
         | 5s.
        
           | highwaylights wrote:
           | Yeah but if they're not guaranteeing security updates then
           | you still can't rely on it. Which sucks.
           | 
           | I don't really get it either. You want to charge a premium
           | for your handsets, why not let there be a secondary market
           | all the way down the value chain for prices below where you
           | want to go? It just means you're selling more iCloud services
           | and locking people in that way so that when they finally _do_
           | need that upgrade it's an iPhone rather than an Android.
        
             | Otek wrote:
             | Could you elaborate? I genuinely don't understand what you
             | mean
        
               | highwaylights wrote:
               | Apple might release an emergency patch for an old device,
               | but it's not safe for you to keep using that device
               | unless they're committing to support the device with
               | security patches on an ongoing basis.
               | 
               | I think they _should_ support even very old iPhones with
               | updates because:
               | 
               | 1) They can't afford to make an iPhone for $50.
               | 
               | 2) Even if they could, they don't want to make a $50
               | iPhone because it would be terrible and the margin
               | minimal.
               | 
               | 3) Supporting old phones allows a second-hand market for
               | iPhones to thrive in the Chinese-Android-phone-bargain
               | price tier where Apple can't compete with new devices
               | (this is in fact already the case given that there's a
               | used market for old iPhones).
               | 
               | 4) Once someone buys (e.g. an iPhone 6S) used for $50 you
               | can immediately start making them an iCloud customer for
               | recurring revenue.
               | 
               | tldr; I think Apple views used device sales as a lost
               | purchase for them instead of the massive subsidy that it
               | is in terms of the cost associated with onboarding a new
               | customer. (Apple should be overjoyed that someone is
               | willing to sell a first-time prospective Apple customer
               | an iPhone 6S for $50. The factory couldn't make them the
               | phone wholesale for that price, and it gets someone into
               | the ecosystem).
        
             | GeekyBear wrote:
             | >if they're not guaranteeing security updates then you
             | still can't rely on it
             | 
             | As opposed to Google only offering two years of OS updates
             | and an additional three years of security updates after
             | that on the Pixel 6?
             | 
             | Sorry, but every single flagship iPhone since 2011 has
             | gotten between five and seven years of OS updates. Then
             | there are additional years of security updates after that.
             | For example, the $399 OG iPhone SE got seven years of OS
             | updates.
             | 
             | Google needs to step up their game. They don't even have
             | the Qualcomm excuse now that they are having their own
             | custom SOC fabbed.
        
               | christophilus wrote:
               | Google is absurd. Apple is just bad.
               | 
               | My laptops (Linux) last until they die, and it takes a
               | long time for them to die. I'd love a phone that does
               | that.
        
         | augustl wrote:
         | Apparently, the reason Apple dropped support for iPhone 7 is
         | performance on the new lock screen. Pretty lame if that's the
         | case, Apple has usually been good with supporting all devices
         | as long as the hardware allows it (for example, hardware level
         | secure enclave was required at a certain version of iOS)
        
           | alwillis wrote:
           | _Apparently, the reason Apple dropped support for iPhone 7 is
           | performance on the new lock screen._
           | 
           | It's more likely the fact the iPhone 7 only has 2GB of RAM
           | and two cores, not to mention missing the Neural Engine, the
           | image processor and other features on Apple's latest SoCs
           | that iOS 16 requires for some of its features.
           | 
           | Most of major features of iOS 16 would have to be removed to
           | run on an iPhone 7.
        
             | Jtsummers wrote:
             | I was looking at that, the iPhone 8 (supported) has a
             | 6-core CPU, 4 high efficiency cores, but also 2GB of RAM in
             | the plain iPhone 8, 3GB in the Plus. So if it's anything,
             | it'll be in the GPU or the 2 extra cores, that marks the
             | critical differentiator for performance.
        
               | alwillis wrote:
               | But even the iPhone 8 doesn't support all of the features
               | of iOS 16:
               | 
               | * Live Text
               | 
               | * can't send emojis in iMessage using Siri
               | 
               | * can't ask Siri about apps
               | 
               | * offline Siri support for HomeKit, Intercom, Voicemail
               | 
               | * being able to smoothly switch between voice and typing
               | when using dictation
               | 
               | * adding medications using the camera
               | 
               | * Door Detection in Magnifier
               | 
               | * Image search in more apps
        
           | anonuser123456 wrote:
           | It is a extremely hard to maintain differential software
           | features across hardware product lines. What 'sounds lame'
           | may translate into significantly added complexity to the
           | maintenance process.
        
             | theideaofcoffee wrote:
             | I think with all of their resources, Apple of all companies
             | could dig deep and stretch a little bit to make that
             | happen.
        
               | anonuser123456 wrote:
               | It would make their product worse.
               | 
               | As someone that has worked on this very problem for 20
               | years, I can say with somewhat confidence Apples choice
               | is the right one.
        
               | stouset wrote:
               | They quite literally already are. Find me a manufacturer
               | that comes anywhere close to supporting devices for as
               | long as Apple does.
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | Apple does, with all of their resources, dig much deeper
               | and provide OS updates to much older device models than
               | any mobile device manufacturer I know of.
        
               | BuckRogers wrote:
               | You can blame their competition for not beating them out
               | at longterm support on that front. Apple is already
               | leading the market supporting iOS this long. I used my
               | last iPhone for 7 years, unfathomable on any other
               | platform than iOS.
               | 
               | I hope their competitors step it up and beat Apple out on
               | grade A support. I'm seeing them fall further behind in
               | every metric. My iPhone 12 mini that I bought on launch
               | day "just works".
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | airstrike wrote:
               | Why throw money away?
        
           | m3kw9 wrote:
           | E waste, no no don't throw it out. You can use 99% of the
           | apps even without ios16. It's only when individual app
           | developers phase out support for ios15 typically 2-3 years
           | after. Facebook, YouTube etc still supports even iOS 12
        
             | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
             | Actually, you can download the newer version of an app on a
             | newer iphone and then download a version that works on the
             | old iphone from the Purchased page.
             | 
             | Apple makes it difficult but keeping my iPhone 5S is still
             | going years after iOS 12 is no longer "cool"
        
               | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
               | I'm impressed by how long you kept it going! My iPhone 5
               | and 6 were still going until last year.
        
               | KennyBlanken wrote:
               | Why would you be keeping an 5S "still going" when you can
               | buy an 8, SE, or an X/Xs/Xr, for a song and get vastly
               | better performance, battery life, wifi and cellular?
               | 
               | The A7 is _dogshit_ slow - I have an iPad with the A7 (or
               | maybe it 's the A9) and it's unusably slow for even
               | simple things like apps from newspapers and library
               | e-reader apps; you can watch the page assemble. Even
               | waking the iPad with the home button is slow. On my
               | A11-powered phone these apps run smooth as butter.
               | 
               | A 5S supports 11 of the LTE bands versus 24 bands of the
               | 8. That alone is worth the upgrade, for the greater
               | chance of being able to make or receive an important
               | call.
               | 
               | How much time are you wasting on silly work-arounds just
               | to be a retro-tech hipster pretending it's cool to use a
               | completely outdated and inferior-in-every-way piece of
               | hardware for absolutely no reason?
        
               | Xylakant wrote:
               | I stuck with an iPhone SE of the first generation until I
               | really needed multi-sim this year. The form factor is
               | great, no other phone is that small. Battery life was ok,
               | too. Why not stick with hardware that does the job? If it
               | works for him, great. Better for the environment, too.
               | Cheaper as well.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | OK. I'm convinced. I really don't use any 3rd party apps
             | other than Brave and my banking app, so as long as those
             | work and I keep getting security updates, my cheap ass is
             | good to go.
        
       | yabones wrote:
       | Well, looks like it's the end of the line for my 1st gen SE. It's
       | been a good run. I'll miss you, little guy.
       | 
       | Looks like my other options for a small phone are 12/13 mini or
       | possibly the 2nd/3rd gen SE. But not nearly as compact as the 4"
       | SE.
        
         | throwanem wrote:
         | I switched to a 12 mini last year, after my last 1st gen SE
         | took a drop that damaged it beyond practical repair. They
         | aren't _that_ different in size, and it didn 't take me as long
         | to acclimate as I'd expected, especially when I found I do
         | quite like having a larger display and smaller bezels -
         | especially since few if any apps or websites are still tested
         | on 4.7"-class displays like the 1st gen SE's.
         | 
         | There's definitely an inflection point - I also have a Galaxy
         | 10+ for work and still find it uncomfortably large. The 12 mini
         | seems to fall right in a sweet spot for me.
        
         | sockaddr wrote:
         | 2nd gen SE owner here: It was a great little phone, but the
         | batteries are terrible and terribly inadequate. You were
         | warned.
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | You can use iOS 15. Apple is known to supply security updates
         | to old iOS versions for a few years.
        
         | Eric_WVGG wrote:
         | I just bought a 13 Mini about an hour ago (waiting for the $100
         | price drop)... don't get the 12 Mini, you're really gonna want
         | that extra battery life
        
           | SSLy wrote:
           | 12 mini isn't available from Apple anymore
        
             | vesrah wrote:
             | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FG8R3LL/A/refurbished-
             | iph...
        
               | SSLy wrote:
               | OK, new ip12m, or outside of USA.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Also the RAM sizes doubled from 12 to 13.
        
         | o_m wrote:
         | It looks like I'm going to keep my iPhone 13 mini for the next
         | 7 years, or until it won't receive any updates anymore.
        
         | empressplay wrote:
         | I just ordered a 'refurbished' iPhone 8 plus off of Amazon to
         | replace my SE -- it's slightly bigger than the second
         | generation SE but it has a second telephoto camera so... if I'm
         | going to be forced to have a larger phone then that's
         | sufficient compensation. Also it still has a fingerprint
         | sensor!
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | The 13 mini is only slightly larger than the SE (2016).
         | Dimensions:                 Model    Height   Width   Depth
         | SE       4.87"    2.31"   0.3"       Mini     5.18"    2.53"
         | 0.301" (strangely precise)       Diff    +0.31"   +0.22"
         | +0.001"
         | 
         | The screen goes from 4" to 5.4", which (for me) was worth the
         | slight increase in size. I'm not going to say it's as compact
         | as the SE (2016), but it's not a huge difference (nowhere near
         | the difference of the regular sized 13 and 14 models). The mini
         | is also smaller than the later SE models (except for depth,
         | they are slightly slimmer).
        
           | GloriousKoji wrote:
           | As a lover of the original SE and a a Mini 13 owner the HUGE
           | increase in thickness is what really bothers me with the size
           | change. Their official thickness spec only measures the main
           | body of the phone which is virtually a zero change in size
           | but the camera bump makes it's thickest point about 50%
           | thicker.
        
             | Jtsummers wrote:
             | I did forget about the camera bump, but I don't believe the
             | numbers work out that it's adding .15" to the thickness of
             | the phone on its own. I had a recent chance to compare the
             | SE (2016) to my 13 Mini (my mother still has the original
             | SE but is likely to upgrade soon, I was recommending the
             | mini since, other than the home button, it mostly met her
             | needs and would provide a better display for her aging
             | eyes) and it's definitely not 50% thicker at any point.
             | That would have been quite noticeable.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | It's also markedly heavier. Despite the nominal size
             | increase being small, the feel is totally different.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | I guess 25% heavier sounds substantial, but a change from
               | 4 oz to 5 oz is not that big. (113g -> 140g)
        
       | gridder wrote:
       | You can already download the RC with the public beta profile.
       | Released few minutes ago.
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | watchOS 9 also September 12th unsurprisingly.
        
       | dkrich wrote:
       | Interesting to see the similarities to watchOS
        
       | robot9000 wrote:
       | Huge!
       | 
       | But the bigger surprise is that there's literally nothing in it
       | that I care about despite being an iOS user.
       | 
       | Also, multiple stops on Maps? That's Google maps 15 years ago.
        
         | t-writescode wrote:
         | 15 years ago? Wow! Seeing Google Maps came out 17 years ago,
         | that's really early in their lifetime!
        
         | ezfe wrote:
         | Doesn't really matter if Google Maps had it first, I like Apple
         | Maps more and I'm excited for the feature.
         | 
         | Google Maps UI is a mess - only real advantage is (usually)
         | better POI data. Routing quality is the same in my experience.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | Is anyone else anxious about updates?
       | 
       | I used to be so pumped for them when I was a teen. They'd unlock
       | a world of new opportunities.
       | 
       | Now I just feel anxious that there's change for change sake to
       | justify the resourcing of the design teams and that they'll make
       | things I'm used to worse all for a bunch of features I'll never
       | use or want.
       | 
       | I don't want more features. There's so many already and they're
       | really cluttering.
       | 
       | Like when they moved the address bar to the bottom in Safari.
       | Bad. Shame. But they let you revert it. I'm just waiting for that
       | team to decide, "no those users are idiots. It's been a year.
       | Time to remove the setting and impose our new vision on existing
       | users."
       | 
       | ...it's me isn't it? This sounds like old man yells at cloud
       | speak.
        
         | highwaylights wrote:
         | They won't make them functionally worse. They'll outright break
         | them, and then move on, then eventually once everyone has
         | stopped using it because it's so broken they'll quietly remove
         | it.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | I mean, you don't _have_ to update, at least not right away.
         | Just wait a couple of months for the new version to stabilize
         | and see what the reports say. In the past I've sometimes
         | skipped two or three major updates to reduce the frequency of
         | disruptions. But I agree that everything has become
         | increasingly cluttered and decreasingly "it just works".
        
         | noahtallen wrote:
         | Maybe not just you, but probably more rare. I'm pretty excited
         | for many of the new features coming in this update! (Lock
         | Screen customization, live activities, and iMessage edits being
         | a few very powerful and practical additions!)
         | 
         | I also liked the safari address bar change, as it's objectively
         | more ergonomic for thumb use.
         | 
         | Many recent iOS updates have significantly expanded power user
         | features too: we have shortcuts and automations, customizable
         | focus modes, default browser/mail apps, Home Screen widgets,
         | etc. Most of which the HN crowd (and many others) have been
         | asking for for years!
         | 
         | In fact, we're at the point that people can technically
         | customize app icons.
         | 
         | I think these updates objectively are unlocking a world of
         | possibilities. The features I listed above a pretty powerful --
         | especially shortcuts and automations.
         | 
         | It's ok to not be in that headspace anymore -- but many others
         | still are :) You can always stick around on older iOS versions!
         | And I'd argue there are vanishingly few new features that
         | dramatically change the way you use your phone. The address bar
         | being a good example.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | scottydelta wrote:
       | I recently published an article[1] on How Apple could improve the
       | VPNs experience on iOS. I hope someone at Apple finally decides
       | to improve it on the next update.
       | 
       | It surprises me how Apple continues to add a lot of fancy feature
       | and ignore basic day to day usability features like these.
       | 
       | [1] https://medium.com/@contact_54652/how-can-apple-improve-
       | the-...
        
       | poglet wrote:
       | The improvements with photo sharing seem promising. Right now my
       | partner and I have Dropbox Photo Sync enabled on our iPhones, but
       | viewing the shared photos must be done through the Dropbox app.
       | 
       | But now with the new improvements it looks like there is an
       | automatic option "you can share photos instantly right from
       | Camera, choose to share automatically when other shared library
       | members are nearby".
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | Passkeys gonna be fire. Goodbye password managers, credential
       | stuffing, and phishing attacks!
       | 
       | (photo deduplication is nice too btw, been a long time coming)
        
         | isatty wrote:
         | Have they added the feature to have a locked (and hidden, I
         | know that hidden already exists) folder for pictures?
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | That is my understanding. FaceID for hidden and deleted
           | photos.
        
             | isatty wrote:
             | Amazing. I cannot believe it's taken this long but that's
             | amazing. Upgrading first chance I get.
        
         | jdadj wrote:
         | Indeed, but the lock-in potential of passkeys [1] is
         | concerning.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.fastcompany.com/90755838/theres-a-big-problem-
         | wi...
        
           | PassageNick wrote:
           | That is concerning. Have to weigh that against the added
           | security, I guess.
           | 
           | The article does talk about how tools like 1Password could
           | allow for PassKey sharing without vendor lock-in.
        
         | bioemerl wrote:
         | > Passkeys gonna be fire
         | 
         | Knowing apple they're going to be another avenue to lock in.
         | Now not only does switching your device been that you have to
         | leave apple's ecosystem, it also means you lose all your
         | passwords for all your websites.
         | 
         | I'm honestly hoping this does not take off.
        
           | thefourthchime wrote:
           | I imagine you'll have the option to still have a password,
           | for those that aren't concerned about Apple lock it'll be a
           | nice benefit.
        
             | PassageNick wrote:
             | That would kind of defeat the purpose, no?
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | No? At least not for convenience. On my phone, instant
               | login, anywhere else, enter password.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | The point of passkeys isn't convenience (that's what
               | things like TouchID/FaceID are for); the point is to
               | obviate password phishing, brute-forcing, and password
               | database leaks. Having a "backup" password removes every
               | one of those benefits.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | > Knowing apple they're going to be another avenue to lock
           | in.
           | 
           | I mean it's just Webauthn under the hood, I'd bet money you
           | can export them from keychain into another tool like
           | 1Password or similar.
        
             | thebitstick wrote:
             | Time to pay up! Exporting is impossible on Apple's
             | implementation of Passkeys. Even exporting your entire
             | keychain of passwords doesn't result in any WebAuthn keys,
             | just standard passwords. Tested on macOS 13 and iOS 16
             | betas. I sincerely doubt this will change with the official
             | releases. Google's implementation is probably the same.
             | Microsoft hasn't done a thing yet to support passkeys
             | besides what Edge and Windows Hello do.
        
               | joshstrange wrote:
               | Interesting, I'm not running the betas and I searched a
               | bunch before I posted and couldn't find it mentioned one
               | way or the other. I hope that changes sometime in the
               | future, though I only use 1Password anyways.
               | 
               | > Time to pay up!
               | 
               | What's your favorite charity?
        
               | scrollaway wrote:
               | > _What's your favorite charity?_
               | 
               | Not GP but the EFF is the charity most likely to help
               | successfully push for changes here :) I am sending them
               | 50 bucks in your name. Care to double it?
        
         | highwaylights wrote:
         | I dunno. Passkeys scare the crap out of me.
         | 
         | If I get arbitrarily locked out of a Google/Apple/Microsoft
         | account then my logins for absolutely everything go up in smoke
         | too.
         | 
         | (Assumes the key is a composite pair of local passkey + cloud
         | account secret)
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | Fire so long as sites implement them. Given how "quickly"
         | yubikeys or even just touch ID webauthn have been going around,
         | it doesn't seem very imminent :( Hopefully Firebase or AWS
         | offer an easily accessible way to add passkeys etc as auth
         | methods.
        
           | cheeze wrote:
           | On the flipside, Yubikey and whatnot are still pretty niche.
           | 
           | That being said, I was hoping to see more touch ID webauthn
           | so I'm not super hopeful. But we can hope!
        
           | sebk wrote:
           | There's nothing special RPs have to do in order to support
           | Passkeys. It's just WebAuthn that happens to be synced. If
           | the site supports WebAuthn it already supports Passkeys (As
           | long as they're not doing significantly less common things
           | like checking for attestation, which Passkey-enabled
           | credentials won't do).
        
       | jacobr wrote:
       | The iPhone 8 only compatibility means that many teams will be
       | stuck supporting Safari 15.6 for a very long time. Anything under
       | "no support" on this page will continue to be out of reach for
       | years to come
       | https://caniuse.com/?compare=safari+15.6&compareCats=all#res...
        
         | ezfe wrote:
         | It's good that Safari is much less shit than it used to be...
        
       | bnt wrote:
       | Next to CarPlay it says "Vehicle announcement coming in late
       | 2023" - what is this related to? Showing car-related information
       | in CarPlay, or are they announcing a car of their own?
        
         | jackson1442 wrote:
         | I think that's surrounding which vehicles will support the
         | CarPlay dashboard.
        
         | berberous wrote:
         | I'm not sure, but a while ago they announced a sort of expanded
         | CarPlay where things like the speedometer, fuel gage, etc were
         | shown in the CarPlay format, so I assume that.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | antipaul wrote:
         | Late 2023 is when they will announce the list of cars that
         | support this radical expansion of CarPlay to encompass the
         | whole dashboard, as in the image
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | I believe this means, "late next year, we'll be announcing 2024
         | model-year vehicles that will be the first to support next-gen
         | CarPlay experiences".
        
         | Jaepa wrote:
         | Likely the former. They announced a new version of Carplay
         | during WWDC. Basically rather than just applying to the
         | infotainment system, it will also include information from the
         | dashboard, and climate systems.
         | 
         | https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/09/apples-2023-carpl...
        
           | WXLCKNO wrote:
           | Really hope that this will be compatible with iDrive 8 on my
           | upcoming BMW.
        
             | BoorishBears wrote:
             | This is something that essentially replaces iDrive and your
             | entire gauge cluster with CarPlay: it will be a very long
             | time before BMW supports it, if ever
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | The chance of an "Apple Car" is exactly zero. Even actual
         | manufacturers are having huge issues producing enough.
         | 
         | BUT tighter Apple/CarPlay integration with existing brands is
         | most definitely coming.
         | 
         | Soon your iPhone will handle the whole instrument cluster and
         | infotainment for your car as well as functioning as a key.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | I got one or two spammer calls a week on TMobile over the course
       | of maybe 8 years.
       | 
       | Six months on Verizon and I get more spam calls a week than those
       | 8 years.
        
       | avtar wrote:
       | Apple's call and sms spam filtering remains subpar to say the
       | least. When I had a Pixel, I had the option to let the OS
       | transcribe what the potential spammer was saying and end the
       | call. It's puzzling why Apple isn't doing more here.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Apple's call and sms spam filtering remains subpar to say the
         | least._
         | 
         | It's my understanding that this is largely because of the
         | carriers.
         | 
         | Phone and text spam filtering came to the iPhone in China long
         | before it hit other countries. I only know a couple of people
         | in China, and neither are in tech, but they say it's because
         | spam was absolutely rampant so the government leaned on the
         | carriers to fix it, and the iPhone spam filtering appeared a
         | short time later.
         | 
         | There's no shortage of Chinese users on HN, so maybe one of
         | them can explain further, or refute what I've been told.
        
           | anormaluser wrote:
           | Is it true? I'm also curious about it.
        
         | blibble wrote:
         | I think they have a patent on it
        
         | thefourthchime wrote:
         | robokiller does a decent job on ios
        
         | Daltzn wrote:
         | Give the app bouncer a try. I been able stop almost all spam
         | texts.
        
         | MR4D wrote:
         | Select "Silence unknown callers" and you're done.
         | 
         | Last month I had a flurry of spam texts and calls. I moved the
         | slider to the "enable" side a few weeks ago and have had zero
         | issues since.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | MR4D wrote:
           | For those of you that want to learn more about this feature,
           | Apple has a page describing how it works as well as how calls
           | get through.
           | 
           | It's a simple read and worth the minute or so if you use the
           | feature.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32757077
        
           | wl wrote:
           | I do this.
           | 
           | I missed a hospital calling about a family member. They
           | should have left a voicemail, but they didn't.
        
           | frizkie wrote:
           | This is a great feature but it's a huge double-edged sword. I
           | need to remember to turn it off when I'm expecting a call
           | from an unpredictable number, and then I need to remember to
           | turn it back on again after I receive the call. It would be
           | great if I could turn it off for some number of hours or
           | days.
        
             | nytesky wrote:
             | I use a Google Voice number for all of my delivery,
             | business, etc phone calls. It has built in verbal call
             | screening and the smarter spam filtering, and thus my
             | personal iPhone # can be exclusive for my white listed
             | personal calls.
        
               | lelandfe wrote:
               | Sadly, soo many services refuse to accept Voice numbers.
               | Most recent example: I tried to submit _positive_
               | feedback to an airline and their form rejects any Google
               | Voice numbers, mandating a  "real" phone number instead.
        
               | nytesky wrote:
               | True. Would they accept Ooma number? Wish I could pay
               | like $5/month for a forward only number that worked
               | everywhere.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I use GV also and use call screening. But it still rings
               | through for me quite a bit with spam, so I now keep DND
               | turned on, and if I get VMs then I return the call. Not
               | ideal, but better than giving out my real phone number.
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | My strategy is to have my voicemail say that I don't get
             | calls from unknown numbers and to text or call again if it
             | is urgent.
        
             | zonkedwheel wrote:
             | I've had the same issue if I am expecting a call but not
             | sure what number it will ne. But iIf you already know the
             | number, adding that to contacts will solve the problem ?
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | Numbers I didn't know and had to turn off "silence
               | unknown callers"... recruiters/hiring managers, freight
               | deliveries, doctors, pharmacy.
               | 
               | The feature mostly works, but needing to remember to
               | disable it when a call is expected is annoying.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | People always say this but if this is true:
           | 
           | 1) You have a kid AND 2) You're not currently looking right
           | at that kid
           | 
           | Then you need to pick up calls from random numbers basically
           | every time. Just the way life is.
        
           | dereg wrote:
           | I would have this on if it wasn't for the fact that I get
           | calls from delivery drivers, who all have unknown numbers,
           | and for whom the notification must be immediate.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | It's strange they don't have some API that would let Lyft
             | or Doordash or whoever provide caller ID for this use case.
        
             | giarc wrote:
             | My carrier has an option that forces unknown callers to
             | enter a 2 digit number to proceed with call. I add known
             | contacts to my list online and they don't get the prompt.
             | Works well, however I now get a lot of spam texts which it
             | doesn't work for.
        
             | robbyking wrote:
             | I'm always paranoid that I'm going to miss a call from one
             | of the million numbers that come from my kiddo's school.
        
             | derwiki wrote:
             | Buy a Twilio number that forwards to your real number. Then
             | whoever has that number can call it, and it will ring you
             | from the known Twilio number. Add to address book and
             | voila!
        
               | dereg wrote:
               | This is a simple and neat idea. I'll try it on the
               | weekend.
        
               | clamprecht wrote:
               | Do spammers not call Twilio numbers?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | I assume the spammers buy "known active real person phone
               | numbers" from somewhere (probably the awful carriers
               | themselves), so it might be less likely for them to find
               | a new Twilio number. But as soon as you give the phone
               | number to some company that sells (or accidentally leaks)
               | their customer data, that number will be burned too.
        
               | derefr wrote:
               | I don't know about calls, but I definitely get spam SMSes
               | on my persistent Twilio SMS numbers.
        
           | ako wrote:
           | Hospitals and MDs often use unrecognizable phone numbers, you
           | may want to receive those.
        
         | protomyth wrote:
         | T-Mobile does this and also labels a lot of numbers "Scam
         | Likely". Its been really helpful. I too wish Apple would do
         | more, but the carrier can do a bit.
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | I'd like it if you could just have an ephemeral call list. I
         | don't want to add an estate agent or recruiter to my main
         | contact list, but I'd like to see their name come up if they
         | call back or I get another call from them.
         | 
         | Just make it a contact with like a 7 day TTL or something. If
         | it's longer term, save it proper.
         | 
         | I mention this because the old Caller ID setup doesn't really
         | work any more.
        
         | the_mar wrote:
         | Boy do i have a lifehack for you. Buy a phone number with a
         | random area code, like ohio or something, all the spam calls
         | come from surrounding area codes.
        
           | mwint wrote:
           | But then my calls will come from the random area code too.
           | It'd be neat if you could do a dual phone number, where your
           | CID on outbound calls shows as your local area code, but you
           | give out the foreign area code for inbound calls.
           | 
           | But then you mess up callbacks.
        
             | 98codes wrote:
             | > But then my calls will come from the random area code too
             | 
             | Nobody will care. Everybody's cell number is just a record
             | of where they lived when they got their first phone; people
             | you call will have you in their contact list most likely.
        
             | axxl wrote:
             | You misunderstand slightly. All the calls from the area
             | code matching your phone number are more likely to be spam
             | (spammers matching you to appear legit). So unless you call
             | people in that particular area, you won't be matching their
             | area code, so you won't look like a spammer. And unless you
             | happen to know a lot of people in that area, you won't get
             | calls from that area that appear to be spam.
        
               | sangnoir wrote:
               | > So unless you call people in that particular area, you
               | won't be matching their area code, so you won't look like
               | a spammer
               | 
               | You're misunderstanding them too, I suspect. One could
               | equally assume that a call coming from an area code
               | they've never been to, 5 states away _is_ spam - so this
               | trick works if you do not make a lot of calls.
        
               | xsmasher wrote:
               | > One could equally assume that a call coming from an
               | area code they've never been to, 5 states away is spam
               | 
               | Not equally. I have an area code from the opposite coast.
               | If I get a call from that area code, it is 100% spam.
               | Spammers just love outing themselves by spoofing the same
               | area code of the person they are calling.
               | 
               | A call from any other area code is only 30% chance of
               | being spam.
        
             | briffle wrote:
             | Your missing the point. Spammers call you from a spoofed
             | number so that you think its someone near you based on the
             | area code. I lived just a town over an invisible line in
             | 2009, and ordered a new phone, and got an area code that
             | the only other person I know that has a number in that area
             | code is my wife. (920)
             | 
             | the ONLY calls that call me from that area code are
             | spammers. if I get calls from any other area code, only 20%
             | or so are spammers. Others are sales/marketing for IT
             | companies, etc, and calls from one of the 2 area codes that
             | cover my area where I actually live are usually all local
             | businesses, etc. If I had to guess, I would say 85-90% of
             | the 'spam callers' call and spoof the 920 area code when
             | they dial me. that drastically cuts down on my automated
             | messages about a car warranty that is about to expire.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Yeah, I did this. But it's not enough. Most phone number
           | blocking apps get really slow blocking a couple of area
           | codes. Number Shield loads _very_ slowly on my iPhone 13 with
           | just 919 and 984 blocked. But they do fire prober calls from
           | other locations too. The interesting thing is that they never
           | actually say anything on the phone _or_ in text. It 's solely
           | some sort of DoS against me. Weird.
        
           | limeblack wrote:
           | This works until you get calls from DC.
        
           | encryptluks2 wrote:
           | Just have the US start sending missiles to spam call centers
           | and people will stop real quick.
        
           | wwweston wrote:
           | One of the things I've noticed recently is that spam call
           | numbers have gotten smarter -- somehow they're figuring out
           | numbers corresponding to regions that I spend time in that
           | _aren 't_ related to my area code or central exchange...
        
             | ffhhj wrote:
             | Meta smarter
        
           | kemayo wrote:
           | There's a useful iOS app called Number Shield that lets you
           | block all calls coming from numbers that match the first six
           | digits of your phone number. That's the most common spoofing
           | technique, so it really does help.
           | 
           | E.g. if your number is (555)555-1234 it'll block anything
           | from (555)555-0000 to (555)555-9999.
           | 
           | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/number-shield/id1319082167
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | NonNefarious wrote:
           | Actually, the more-telling part of the number is the
           | exchange. They'll often match yours, which is dumb as hell.
           | 
           | In the age where most phones are mobile, this whole "scheme"
           | is pitifully ignorant.
        
             | kshacker wrote:
             | Spamming, like many other things in life, is a field of
             | bleeding edge technology. :) They were not using your area
             | code a decade back, then they realized your area code works
             | better - it probably did for a while. When it loses
             | effectiveness, they will move on to other patterns they
             | have discovered.
             | 
             | Also, A/B testing is not just for good guys.
        
         | hospitalJail wrote:
        
           | stouset wrote:
           | > Other companies compete over best or newest features.
           | Camera location/exterior shape forces their status-conscious
           | demographic to buy new phones.
           | 
           | Frankly this kind of comment has no place on Hacker News.
           | 
           | There are many, many reasons to be critical of Apple.
           | "Doesn't compete on features and only cares about what the
           | device looks like superficially because their customers are
           | sheep who only care about status" is not only a lazy take,
           | but also doesn't even remotely describe the reality in which
           | we live.
           | 
           | > I don't see what is wrong with calling out a very rational
           | decision to continue making high status products rather than
           | deviate into high tech products.
           | 
           | I genuinely can't fathom how one could conclude that Apple as
           | a company isn't investing in technology. I mean, even at a
           | superficial level, you're talking about a company that in-
           | houses their own chip design and has dominated the mobile CPU
           | market since doing so. They're very competitive in the
           | desktop space in compute power with their very first chip
           | line in this product category, and are absolutely crushing
           | the existing players on performance per watt.
           | 
           | The've leveraged this advantage into being effectively the
           | only meaningful player in the wearables space other than
           | Garmin. Satellite integration into the phone is a direct shot
           | across the bow of devices like the Garmin inReach, and the
           | greater battery life (plus satellite integration) in the
           | Apple Watch Max is going to start eating away at a chunk of
           | Garmin's marketshare for GPS-tracking watches. Though Garmin
           | still wins here for serious backcountry enthusiasts who spend
           | multiple days in a row out of reach, Apple is leaving them a
           | smaller and smaller margin in which to operate.
           | 
           | I stand by my original comment that this characterization of
           | Apple is not reflective about of our reality. For Apple's
           | many faults, they are _extremely_ competitive from a
           | technological perspective. Precisely because they are so
           | unbelievably good at identifying how and when to apply a
           | technological advance to achieve the largest possible impact
           | for their customers.
        
         | willyt wrote:
         | That must be a US thing? I never get spam calls on my iPhone
         | and only very rarely a spam text; maybe a couple of times a
         | year I get the 'you've got a parcel with a fee to pay' scam.
        
           | sensitivefrost wrote:
           | It's definitely not a US thing.
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | I'm using yandex app and it detects spam calls. So iOS does
         | have some hooks for that. You just need to find app for your
         | location.
        
         | pwpw wrote:
         | It's the biggest thing I've missed after switching from a Pixel
         | to an iPhone this week. In my first day of iPhone ownership, I
         | received more spam/text calls than in an entire year with a
         | Pixel.
        
           | dchuk wrote:
           | Why would you switch the same week they were going to
           | announce all new stuff?
        
             | pwpw wrote:
             | There's a 2 week return period, and I wanted to be sure I'd
             | be fine switching to iOS before buying an expensive new
             | device. Part of the reason I'm switching is the new Pro
             | models are a lot closer to Android phones with features
             | like always on display. Based on the rumors, I was pretty
             | sure what to expect today, so I have just been onboarding
             | myself with iOS yesterday and today and can return the
             | phone by the time I should have the new one in hand.
        
               | justusthane wrote:
               | Odd strategy. Why wouldn't you just return the 14 Pro if
               | you didn't like it?
        
               | pwpw wrote:
               | Because I'm immediately leaving town. I can grab it,
               | quickly set it up, and know what to expect.
        
       | l72 wrote:
       | Still no ability to have separate accounts on an ipad... I sort
       | of understand that a phone is a single user OS, but the ipad most
       | certainly should be a multi user OS.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Apple's products are closer to a personal computer than most
         | PCs ever were ...
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | There will never be multi user support on the iPad until the
         | iPad has some real competition. Apple has absolutely no
         | incentive to invest resources in to multi user when it's much
         | more likely that you will buy two iPads than buy an android
         | tablet.
        
         | patrickserrano wrote:
         | If you don't mind using MDM you can get something akin to
         | roaming profiles on iPads. It's an enterprise feature, but it
         | was introduced sometime during iOS 13.
         | 
         | I agree though, native multi-user support would be great.
         | Though, I'd hope it's better than what we got on tvOS.
        
         | K7PJP wrote:
         | I'm starting to think this will never happen.
        
       | pkulak wrote:
       | This won't bring ambient display to older phones, will it?
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | No. That requires new display tech.
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | This may be an unpopular opinion but I find iOS to be a much
       | better appliance OS than Android, Chrome, or Windows. That said
       | they are getting close to the 'computer' gap.
       | 
       | Back when computers were super expensive (like millions of $) the
       | owners (or lessors) would try to get them to do as many things as
       | possible all the time so maximize the "value" of their
       | investment. What was truly revolutionary about microprocessors
       | was that they were inexpensive enough that you could dedicate
       | them to doing just one thing.
       | 
       | But then the capabilities of microprocessors started to greatly
       | exceed the level of computation you needed to do that "one thing"
       | and so the age of "featuritis" was born where the "wasted"
       | compute resource in the dedicated microprocessor could do
       | something to differentiate or add value to a product. That could
       | be as silly as adding more indicator lights, but usually it was a
       | way of altering the thing the appliance did. Today, nobody things
       | twice about a washing machine that has a combinatorial set of 20
       | different wash cycles, versus the simple "water level", "water
       | temperature", "number of cycles" that was achievable with just
       | simple mechanical switches and a few dumb sensors.
       | 
       | However, it seems we might inflect again, as even cheaper
       | microprocessors make even less expensive appliances available.
       | Further, the subsumption of dozens of devices into the "phone"
       | (copier, camera, recorder, navigator, television, Etc.) has
       | created its own "traffic jam" where you might be watching TV on
       | your device, and suddenly there is something you want to take a
       | picture of and call someone about it. Multiplexing the device
       | kind of works but it can also become annoying.
       | 
       | It will be interesting to me to see how this more "computer os
       | like" version of iOS will fare, and whether or not multi-
       | functioning on a single devices develops into a negative feature
       | vs the current economic win.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-09-07 23:00 UTC)