[HN Gopher] Eight Secret Societies You Might Not Know
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       Eight Secret Societies You Might Not Know
        
       Author : galaxyLogic
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2022-09-08 20:02 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | IncRnd wrote:
       | > Eight Secret Societies You Might Not Know
       | 
       | They aren't secret anymore - not when they are in the
       | Smithsonian!
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Yeah - the real Secret Societies are actually Secret and
         | probably operating in our world all the time without displaying
         | it. There's no evidence, just because you don't see Secret
         | Societies much anymore, that they don't exist. There was a lack
         | of evidence at the time for all the societies on the list.
        
           | riffic wrote:
           | btw the password to their secret ceremonies is 'fidelio'
        
             | kirbys-memeteam wrote:
             | That is the reference password, yes. What is the secret
             | password?
        
               | IncRnd wrote:
               | It's a secret, but I'll tell you if you keep it between
               | the two of us. The secret password is "Leonore" without
               | quotes - so don't do any air quotes when you offer the
               | secret password for most illustrious entrances.
        
       | riffic wrote:
       | Didn't see _The Ancient Order of Free Gardeners_ listed:
       | 
       | > Although the Free Gardeners have always remained independent of
       | Freemasonry, the history and organisation of the two orders show
       | numerous similarities. Some commentators have pointed to possible
       | mutual influences in the ancient history of the two organisations
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Free_Gardeners
        
       | oq_computer wrote:
       | 'The Power of Ritual in Prehistory: Secret Societies and Origins
       | of Social Complexity' by Brian Hayden is a super interesting read
       | on the origin of secret societies. Apparently there has always
       | been a dynamic in communities that whenever there is a production
       | surplus (according to the author happens in 'transegalitarian
       | societies'), there tends to be a very small number of individuals
       | that feel entitled to the surplus so they start to create
       | multiple secret society startups with rituals and initiation
       | practices often involving a high initiation cost to eventually
       | centralize power (and publicly punish skeptics when possible).
       | 
       | Another characteristic about secret societies is that actually
       | they need to be very public (to get new members), and what is a
       | secret instead is the reason why the society exists, that part is
       | not revealed unless becoming part of the group.
        
         | JeremiahSand wrote:
         | Came here to post about Hayden's thesis and you had beaten me
         | to it. If anyone's interested in a podcast intro there's a good
         | one here: https://auticulture.com/the-liminalist-223-the-
         | arrival-of-th...
        
       | leephillips wrote:
       | No Turtles? Lame.
        
       | westcort wrote:
       | I was once tapped to be part of a secret society. It was an
       | interesting experience, but in the end I did not join.
        
       | chris_wot wrote:
       | This is an interesting headline. I would imagine there are quite
       | a few secret societies we don't know about because they are,
       | well, _secret_.
        
       | c7b wrote:
       | Nice that they found a mix, I expected >90% of them to be
       | religious or semi-religious (what you hear about the freemasons
       | sounds quite cult-ish too, eg).
       | 
       | But not sure why they decided to include the Molly Maguires.
       | Sounds like a plain mob to me, the Yakuzas and the Cosa Nostra
       | probably have more rituals than those, and both are still very
       | much in existence.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | I think there's a strong correlation. For example, there was an
         | Oddfellows chapter near me I checked out a few times. They
         | turned out to be some weird sect of Wiccans. I mean, it's nice
         | that they do good works, and I guess alls as well if they keep
         | them separate, but I didn't intend spending time with people
         | who pray to antlers and host nude religious gatherings. And it
         | felt to me, perhaps in a way, they were using a known
         | organization to 'recruit', even if they didn't see it that way.
        
           | RutgerHauer wrote:
           | Where is this? Are they still recruiting?
        
       | kelseyfrog wrote:
       | Some good ones to be sure, but they are leaving out a lot of the
       | really juicy ones.
        
         | TakeBlaster16 wrote:
         | I had the same thought. I guess you and I are talking about the
         | same Order? If so, I'll see you tomorrow evening!
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | Last month, I had that moment every parent1 dreams of. My
       | daughter asked me, "what's 'the Illuminati'?"
       | 
       | It was fun explaining the whole concept of secret societies and
       | conspiracy theories in terms that would be intelligible to an
       | 8-year-old. My kids (her brother is her twin) had a hard idea
       | with the whole concept of secretly coercing somebody to do
       | something that's not in their interests.
        
         | ttctciyf wrote:
         | Wait till they find out about the parental concept of secretly
         | coercing somebody to do something that _is_ in their interests!
        
           | pyinstallwoes wrote:
           | Then how anytime you feel you made a decision it was actually
           | the Illuminati that coerced you into that decision making you
           | believe you came up with it yourself.
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | There's 9.
       | 
       | I'm "blood brothers" with some kid who was five when I was, and
       | his name escaped me decades ago. Nobody is to ever know this, so
       | I guess I just broke that oath.
        
         | IncRnd wrote:
         | Hey! That was me, you oathbreaker - your infidelity against the
         | Art of Sworn Secrets contained in the Ark of Secrets will not
         | go unpunished!
         | 
         | By the powers invested in me as the Head Inquisitor of Occult
         | Secrets I banish you from the Secret Society of Occult Blood
         | Brothers of Hidden Blood Secrets which shall not be named!
         | 
         | FOREVERMORE you are banished and may never enter the Secret
         | Santorum of the Holy Lodge!
        
       | ankaAr wrote:
       | I will add the Lautaro Lodge, known before as Lodge of Rational
       | Knights, from where the revolutionary movements to free Latin
       | American territory from Spain started.
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | The article mentions how in the past, the Patriotic Order Sons of
       | America didn't allow black people to join. They eventually
       | changed but I'm wondering if the change was forced. Is it legal
       | to discriminate on the basis of race or sex today?
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | It Depends (tm) but generally a private club can admit, or not,
         | whoever they please, or don't.
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | In the UK (& I believe EU) that's true to the extent that you
           | could have an even more personal ('I don't like your face')
           | objection, but your reasoning can't be on the basis of a
           | 'protected characteristic', such as race.
           | 
           | Though actually maybe private members' clubs have some kind
           | of exception to that - gender is also a protected
           | characteristic under that act, but there are gentlemen's
           | (only) clubs still (ladies' too perhaps, I'm not sure).
        
             | moritonal wrote:
             | There are male-only clubs (The Garrack, Savage Club), and
             | more modern female and non-binary only clubs (such as the
             | marguerite).
             | 
             | They are all, by definition sexist, but you are allowed
             | under UK law to be such when deciding who to invite to a
             | party.
             | 
             | What would be interesting, is if one became a monopoly in
             | its niche (often clubs have a _thing_), whether one could
             | argue they missed out on serious opportunities in work
             | because they were not allowed to join, but I don't know of
             | such a case being risen.
        
               | jl6 wrote:
               | Indeed it was The Garrick about which Baroness Hale made
               | something rather like that argument, noting that many of
               | her male colleagues were members, perhaps implying that
               | they enjoyed a networking opportunity that she had been
               | denied:
               | 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/06/garrick-
               | club-v...
        
         | tarentel wrote:
         | If a club is truly private they can. ianal but I believe they
         | have to be very specific about their membership criteria. Like
         | you couldn't have criteria that permits anyone who isn't black
         | it would have to be a lot more specific than just that.
        
           | leephillips wrote:
           | You can legally exclude on any basis if you're running an
           | actual private club. But if it smells like a public
           | accommodation (a restaurant that you can patronize without
           | being a member of the club, for example), then the
           | prohibitions against exclusion on the basis of race,
           | religion, etc. kick in.
        
         | jayofdoom wrote:
         | I am a former Mason. I left the lodge due to no longer
         | complying with their requirement to believe in a higher power
         | (God). To be explicit: Masonry used to be segregated into
         | "Prince Hall" masonic halls (for non-white folks) and "normal"
         | masonic halls. This split was ended, and now Prince Hall
         | masonic halls are full masonic lodges, and membership is
         | recognized in both directions. In practice; every lodge I ever
         | attended was integrated even if it was a significant white
         | majority.
         | 
         | When we were voting on new members, it was a silent vote with
         | unanimous consent required. Any vote could be retaken at the
         | order of the master. This means that if someone is eligible and
         | should be a mason, and the vote comes up with a negative vote,
         | the master can say a few words suggesting people reconsider and
         | take the vote up again.
         | 
         | There was only once that I saw someone not pass the first
         | ballot to become a mason. The master said that we should
         | reconsider, and most of the brothers in the room chose not to
         | vote the second time (as a symbol they were not the negative
         | vote), and many of those who did showed their ballot before
         | casting it. The second vote passed.
         | 
         | This as a process indicates there's plenty of room for abuse:
         | any single master mason can anonymously vote to exclude someone
         | for any reason they want. It's up to the folks around them to
         | set them square if they are out of line. I can easily see an
         | lodge existing where there wouldn't be any members willing to
         | speak up in someone's defense.
         | 
         | It's my belief that none of what I've posted here is exposing
         | any of the secrets of a master mason; but if any fraternal
         | members disagree I'll happily edit and delete this post, and I
         | don't intend to expose anything; but instead demonstrate that
         | masonry (as well as, I'd assume, most other 'secret'
         | societies), is as good as the members in the lodge.
        
           | InCityDreams wrote:
           | You dont have to believe in God. Segregation (PHL) is a US
           | only thing. You were correct to leave. That voting system was
           | not Masonic and I've never seen it anywhere else, and nor do
           | i believe it would be tolerated anywhere else. Please dont
           | edit or delete your post.
        
         | throwaway_4ever wrote:
         | Don't universities and workplaces have particular sex and race
         | only clubs?
        
           | vulcan01 wrote:
           | Kind of, but that's why (most of) them have a disclaimer
           | similar to "We welcome people of all races/genders/[whatever
           | characteristic the group is organized around." on their
           | flyers.
        
           | carabiner wrote:
           | Sounds like you never went to college. Those clubs aren't
           | allowed to discriminate, so you'll see a Jewish girl as an
           | officer in an Asian students society, or a woman engineers
           | club admitting men.
        
       | billybuckwheat wrote:
       | Isn't the whole idea behind a secret society that the general
       | public doesn't know about it? I thought that's what _secret_
       | meant.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | One of the most fundamental characteristics of evil is that the
         | evil person cannot help but desire to gain fame for their
         | crimes. (Just look up how many criminals have been arrested by
         | their social media posts.)
         | 
         | A Secret Society might be completely secretive, and yet be
         | unable to resist helping themselves to claiming _some_ credit.
         | Kind of like the Anonymous hacker group in their day. Or Ross
         | Ulbricht adopting the name  "Dread Pirate Roberts" on all of
         | his work which really hurt him when he was caught.
        
           | IncRnd wrote:
           | It's a real jump to go from "secret society" to "evil
           | criminals".
        
             | RutgerHauer wrote:
             | it's a real jump to go from "criminal" to "evil"
        
               | IncRnd wrote:
               | Someone didn't read before commenting.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | This is almost a paraphrase of the definition of survivorship
           | bias. You would expect a preponderance of bigmouths amongst
           | people who are widely known to have been caught for crimes.
           | It would be bad to assume that this is because people who do
           | crimes love to talk about them, rather than that people who
           | talk about crimes get caught.
        
           | nkzd wrote:
           | That's very interesting. Makes you wonder how many criminals
           | escaped justice because they had a willpower to resist
           | temptation of fame.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | I've heard multiple people who would know say that if
             | someone plans a crime well and singly, there's often a very
             | good chance they'll never be caught.
             | 
             | It's repeat action that gets them.
        
           | more_corn wrote:
           | There's no such thing as evil. It therefore has no
           | fundamental traits.
           | 
           | You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks of himself as
           | evil. Everyone is the hero of his own story.
           | 
           | Take "the dread pirate roberts" you know it's a reference to
           | The Princess Bride right? The hero of The Princess Bride?
           | 
           | Now Ross ram a high drug site on the dark web. Was Ross evil?
           | He certainly didn't think so. He philosophically disagreed
           | with drug laws. The Silk Road didn't trade in things Ross
           | thought were evil (I seem to recall from the write up in
           | wires that he banned human trafficking etc). He simply
           | thought everyone should have the right to choose for
           | themselves. I bet he thought he was providing a service.
           | 
           | Was he evil? Not in his own mind. Did he seek fame with his
           | name? Err, no? He was choosing a handle to specifically mask
           | his name (he always planned to play the "it was the other
           | dread pirate roberts the whole time" card)
           | 
           | I don't think you can point to a single person who thinks of
           | themselves as evil. (Even psychopaths don't think of
           | themselves as evil, they just don't think other people are
           | worthy of consideration. --I seem to recall that hitler was a
           | vegetarian. If you asked him he'd say he was a hero of his
           | people.)
           | 
           | And as for criminals seeking fame... probably no more or less
           | than any human seeks fame. Or maybe to say it another way,
           | everyone probably seeks recognition of skill.
        
             | pyinstallwoes wrote:
             | Evil exists. You're rationalizing pure logic. If I stalked
             | you, terrorized you, did the most irrationally consistently
             | irrational things to anything in your world and those near
             | you, you'd be hard pressed to call me anything other than
             | driven by evil.
             | 
             | There is meticulous, introspective, malicious, terrible
             | intent that reads its head. Luckily it seems rare but sadly
             | I've come across it.
        
         | GauntletWizard wrote:
         | Believe it or not, a "secret" society refers to the secrets
         | they _hold_ , not that the society itself is secret. The Masons
         | are public about their existence (if quiet) but their inner
         | "rites and rituals" are secret.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | IIRC Freemasons describe themselves as a society with
           | secrets, rather than a secret society.
        
             | runjake wrote:
             | However, there are secret societies within Freemasonry,
             | such as the Jesters, which is an unofficial offshoot from
             | the Shriners.
        
           | golover721 wrote:
           | While I'm sure that used to the case, that is no longer
           | really the case with the Masons. You can find out and read
           | through all the different ceremonies and rites online.
        
             | InCityDreams wrote:
             | Masons [have been known to] occasionally change certain
             | things to keep known secrets to stay secret: 'letter and
             | begin', for example.
             | 
             | Duncans Ceremonies is the most famous revelation of Masonic
             | secrets, but no dues-card and not being 'in the book',
             | ultimately counts for nothing, as you won't even be able to
             | properly converse with a mason, nor enter a lodge, without
             | either.
        
             | pessimizer wrote:
             | Not by their intention, but by an accumulation of opsec
             | failures over the last 700 years.
        
         | dmix wrote:
         | Membership, what goes on there, and specific
         | processes/rituals/documentation being secret is more important
         | than the existence and purpose.
        
         | AlbertCory wrote:
         | I can't tell you that until you demonstrate that you know the
         | secret handshake.
        
       | charles_kaw wrote:
       | Secret societies have an air of mystique around them, but often
       | they're just social clubs with extra steps. People are social
       | creatures, and having something to belong to is healthy for most!
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | The concerning part is when a secret social club crosses the
         | line into being a cabal.
        
         | BuyMyBitcoins wrote:
         | Those are the fake secret societies the _real_ ones make in
         | order to make you think they're all just glorified social
         | clubs.  /s
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | Why the sarcasm marker? Powerful secret societies have
           | existed throughout history and there's no reason to believe
           | they've stopped now.
        
       | ss108 wrote:
       | Well, they're not that secret apparently
        
         | bena wrote:
         | I get the joke, but I don't think the existence of the society
         | itself is supposed to be a secret, but what happens within the
         | confines is held to secrecy.
        
           | wl wrote:
           | The secret society vs. society with secrets distinction is
           | what Anglo-American Freemasonry has historically highlighted
           | to disclaim the label "secret society." Agree with it or not,
           | that usage does have some currency.
        
         | dan-robertson wrote:
         | I think it's the existence / private activities that are secret
         | rather than the mere existence. But perhaps it's just another
         | meaning of secret, eg the 'secret archives' at the Vatican
         | would better be described as 'private archives' as laypeople
         | may enter and be given access to (some) records.
        
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