[HN Gopher] How a new hard hat technology can protect workers be...
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       How a new hard hat technology can protect workers better from
       concussion
        
       Author : mooreds
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2022-09-09 14:44 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (text.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (text.npr.org)
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
        
       | CapitalistCartr wrote:
       | An important element of hardhats on site is cultural. If you're a
       | supervisor, you wear the brown phenolic one. $80-100, but you
       | walk into a meeting, and everyone at the table sets one down.
       | 
       | If you're an electrician, a Klein one is a desirable choice. With
       | the right stickers on it, such as "Electrician, king of trades".
       | 
       | And so on. What hardhat you wear matters, completely outside of
       | safety.
        
         | er4hn wrote:
         | Are there engineering differences between the hats that make
         | them more suited for a particular trade? Or is this an
         | aesthetics thing?
        
           | CapitalistCartr wrote:
           | As far as I can tell, any $50+ hat protects equally well.
           | Some breathe better, or have built-in headlamp.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | What does rotation have to do with it?
       | 
       | Isn't the situation like an egg in a jar filled with water?
       | 
       | Would a sudden rotation of the jar damage the egg?
        
         | harvey9 wrote:
         | Do you really imagine the brain in the skull is analogous to an
         | egg in a jar with respect to rotation?
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | What would you compare it to?
        
         | anonAndOn wrote:
         | Ever watch boxing? You can smash a guy's face in, break the
         | nose and even the ocular cavity without losing consciousness.
         | But hit the jaw hard enough from the side to whip the head
         | around and they'll drop like a sack of potatoes.
        
         | VygmraMGVl wrote:
         | FTA:
         | 
         | >You can shake an egg forcefully without disrupting the
         | contents. But experiments show that if you spin one hard
         | enough, the yoke inside will rupture even though the shell
         | remains intact.
        
       | upofadown wrote:
       | So do typical impacts on hard hats cause head rotation?
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Any impact not normal to the surface causes some rotation. A
         | glancing blow may be mostly rotational force.
        
       | xen2xen1 wrote:
       | Sounds like something the NFL should fund.
        
         | guywithahat wrote:
         | These are single use and frankly I wonder if we're reading an
         | add for the technology licensing company
        
       | neves wrote:
       | Is this the popular MIPS feature of bike helmets?
       | 
       | https://helmets.org/mips.htm
       | https://helmets.org/journals.htm#helmets
        
       | gremlinsinc wrote:
       | Sounds like those 'drop and egg from 2 stories without it
       | cracking' science class experiments finally paid off.
        
       | guywithahat wrote:
       | They use wavecel in mountain biking! It, along with mips, are the
       | dominant technologies used in bikes where mips has a larger
       | spread of implementation and wavecel is more solidly in the
       | middle.
       | 
       | If you scroll to the bottom of this article you can see a
       | comparison between traditional EPS, MIPS, and WaveCel helmets and
       | excluding the weird airbag helmet the best MIPS helmets tend to
       | do the best, but WaveCel tend to be in the middle of the MIPS
       | pack. https://thomashansen.xyz/blog/best-helmets.html Interesting
       | to see them moving into construction as well
        
       | altairprime wrote:
       | Corrected link with image halfway down page showing the new hard
       | hat interior design: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-
       | shots/2022/09/09/1121903...
       | 
       | Direct link to that image (webp?):
       | https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2022/09/08/hat-2_wide-6ae40...
       | 
       | WaveCel, the manufacturer highlighted by NPR, has a detail page
       | about their technology: https://wavecel.com/technology/
       | 
       | They published a Biomechanics paper about this:
       | https://doi.org/10.1007/s10439-021-02723-0
        
         | blahyawnblah wrote:
         | Kind of like MIPS helmets?
        
           | williamscales wrote:
           | Yes, the article does mention this.
        
           | altairprime wrote:
           | Previously on HN (213 comments):
           | 
           |  _Bontrager's WaveCel material more effective at preventing
           | concussions than MIPS_ (2019)
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20825502
           | 
           | The most valuable paragraph I found there to keep in mind
           | when considering around WaveCel and/or MIPS is:
           | 
           | > _So far it does seem that measuring impacts at an angle
           | matches real world brain damages better than the older
           | standards of measuring dead-on impacts. That 's what
           | "rotational acceleration" means. Acceleration is just another
           | word for impact. It doesn't mean your skull should rotate
           | freely._
           | 
           | (I have no stance on MIPS or WaveCel beyond that.)
        
       | soperj wrote:
       | I don't think anyone in the industry is going to buy a $200 hard
       | hat.
        
         | dieselgate wrote:
         | I worked at HD Supply hardware for a bit - it's a commercial
         | oriented hardware store where prices aren't even posted on the
         | items. PPE is really expensive but companies just buy it anyway
         | - because it's in the budget. A "conventional"
         | fiberglass/carbon fiber hard hat is already like $150. Cheaper
         | than a claim I'm sure.
         | 
         | My only thing is I personally think eye and ear protection may
         | be more "high impact" PPE to focus on. Surely hard hats are
         | important but it's less of a low hanging fruit than eye/ear -
         | ymmv
         | 
         | Edit: also steel shank shoes/boots to prevent penetration from
         | a nail
        
         | Teever wrote:
         | But they'll buy $200 boots?
         | 
         | People will buy whatever they're mandated to buy.
        
           | hugey010 wrote:
           | I think it's whatever their company pays for! If this hard
           | hat means lower insurance costs for the company then it's
           | just a math problem.
        
           | quickthrowman wrote:
           | Tradespeople generally receive PPE from their employer,
           | safety procurement people will be the ones making the
           | purchasing decision about something like this. I wouldn't do
           | business with a contractor that doesn't provide PPE to their
           | employees.
           | 
           | A skilled tradesperson costs about $100/hr in my area, $200
           | isn't a lot of money when it comes to safety. Fall harnesses
           | are hundreds of dollars, arc flash suits are thousands of
           | dollars.
           | 
           | It is about 10x the cost of a regular hard hat, but lower
           | insurance premiums could make up the $180 difference over
           | time.
        
             | tempestn wrote:
             | Could also be good for hiring if people see you investing
             | in safety. I know I'd rather work for the company that's
             | willing to spend a bit more on the safest equipment.
        
         | mooreds wrote:
         | > "If I have one goal in the next few years, it's to bring the
         | price down," Bottlang says.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | Based on what? If the helmets don't look goofy (e.g. the NFL
         | Guardian Caps), are bright red and have the Milwaukee logo on
         | them construction folks will wait in line to pay that much for
         | a helmet.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Why? Someone's buying $100 ones:
         | https://www.toolup.com/Milwaukee-48-73-1300-White-Vented-Hel...
         | 
         | And people pay for Sawstops.
         | 
         | It's harder to get them to wear them than to buy them.
        
         | orwin wrote:
         | If it works, there will be studies that proves it, EU will make
         | it mandatory for companies to buy this kind of hat for their
         | workers, the price will fall.
        
           | jimmygrapes wrote:
           | I cannot think of many things that reduce in price once
           | government mandates their purchase. Seat belts maybe?
           | Although I can't find historical price information on those
           | prior to being mandated.
        
         | chmod775 wrote:
         | If the price for hard hats was $10k a piece, companies would
         | still buy/rent them for their workers.
         | 
         | They're a one-time fee insurance against something that is both
         | expensive and decently likely to happen.
         | 
         | It's almost impossible to work in construction for even a few
         | years without getting one thing or the other dropped on your
         | head. Screws, tools, or rocky substances kicked loose by
         | someone navigating scaffolding above you may not usually be
         | fatal, but they'd probably hurt and can take a worker out of
         | commission for a time.
        
         | csours wrote:
         | A lot of commercial construction is union represented. Unions
         | will get the best safety equipment for their members.
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-09 23:01 UTC)