[HN Gopher] Zoho became a $1B company without external investment
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       Zoho became a $1B company without external investment
        
       Author : mikece
       Score  : 91 points
       Date   : 2022-09-10 19:26 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | jmconfuzeus wrote:
       | They have one of the best customer support I've ever experience.
       | 
       | However, I find their apps to be quite sluggish. I think they
       | ought to spend more on engineering.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > I think they ought to spend more on engineering.
         | 
         | Inevitably, yes.
         | 
         | But the fact that they can even be competitive at so many
         | things:
         | 
         | Webmail, calendar, office, CRM, remote support, meet, chat,
         | etc.
         | 
         | ... and be among the cheapest total solution out there,
         | justifies that they're not the best at any one thing.
        
       | sujitjadhav wrote:
       | I think Zoho's actual valuation is around $12 billion.
        
         | inigoalonso wrote:
         | I think the title references its annual revenue.
        
       | zmmmmm wrote:
       | Moved my google workspace accounts to Zoho after they retracted
       | the grandfathered free plans a few months ago. Really quite
       | pleasantly surprised. They are definitely a good option for
       | people who want the same rough set of features. I am reassured to
       | know that their business is real and not a ticking time bomb of
       | the typical VC-funded customer acquisition growth-at-all costs
       | operation.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | I moved one family member onto Zoho.
         | 
         | It has been a very positive experience so far.
         | 
         | You get an office system as part of the package.
         | 
         | Some cases of the spam filter being too aggressive.
         | 
         | I'd move myself if I wasn't so addicted to FastMail's beautiful
         | web+mobile apps.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | Same, and wish I had sooner. Really slick mobile app, and great
         | spam detection.
        
       | notkurt wrote:
       | What's Zoho like these days? My last company heavily relied on
       | the entire Zoho suite for just about everything except email,
       | spent half of my time putting out fires and migrating them to
       | other products. The only thing that didn't cause too much trouble
       | was their CRM product, but even then it had its issues.
        
       | breitling wrote:
       | The founder and CEO, Sridhar Vembu, is very much publically
       | aligned with right wing extremists in India, where he lives.
       | 
       | https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.thewire.in/article/economy/ac...
       | 
       | Vote with your wallet and your conscience
        
         | wzy wrote:
         | Where do I go to vote for them since I have already been a
         | customer of theirs for 10+ years?
        
         | sgjohnson wrote:
         | > Vote with your wallet and your conscience
         | 
         | What alternative mail hosting provider do you recommend?
         | Google? Microsoft?
         | 
         | Google, in my humble opinion, is the single biggest evil in the
         | digital world today.
        
           | jacooper wrote:
           | Email; ProtonMail, Tutanota
        
             | sgjohnson wrote:
             | ProtonMail is known for completely arbitrarily closing user
             | accounts with 0 recourse.
             | 
             | > Tutanota
             | 
             | Never heard of them.
        
           | sofixa wrote:
           | > Google, in my humble opinion, is the single biggest evil in
           | the digital world today.
           | 
           | Palantir? Facebook? Google abuse user data for profit, but at
           | least:
           | 
           | a) their goal is only money
           | 
           | b) they don't leak that data left and right, and don't leave
           | themselves way too easy to be used for inciting genocides
           | 
           | Facebook is by far worse.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | It's not a contest, but there are plenty of companies that
           | are more evil. Besides companies that are straight up
           | criminal, my vote would go to traditional data brokers.
           | Google might abuse their wealth of data, but at least they
           | won't happily sell it on the street corner.
        
             | sgjohnson wrote:
             | > but at least they won't happily sell it on the street
             | corner.
             | 
             | what do you imagine targetted advertising is? they will
             | sell everything they know about you to basically anyone
             | willing to pay in the form of "I'd like to target these
             | particular audiences in my ad campaign", and then when you
             | get conversions from that particular campaign, it's not
             | exactly rocket science to dereference the click to a
             | particular individual, provided that there's a conversion.
             | 
             | and if you're a bit more nefarious than that, you don't
             | even need a conversion.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Yeah, I understand the privacy concerns with targeted
               | advertising, and agree that it is a concern, but it's
               | once-removed from the type of data you can get from a
               | dedicated data broker. At a data broker you can simply
               | ask for the data you want and they'll directly provide
               | it.
               | 
               | If Google is a chartered fishing expedition, a data
               | broker is a fish market.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | > it's not exactly rocket science to dereference the
               | click to a particular individual
               | 
               | How?
        
         | srk_hn wrote:
         | So India is a population of over 1B, and the US+UK is about
         | 400m.
         | 
         | Why should I assume I know better what the solution is for the
         | problems plaguing a country in a completely different part of
         | the world housing 1/8th the world population while living in
         | the comforts of a 1st world country? Is the CEO advocating for
         | genocide?
         | 
         | Or perhaps we should get off our high horse and shouldn't judge
         | other people for things we cannot possibly understand anything
         | about?
        
       | Ayesh wrote:
       | Probably the only $1b company that didn't convert their playful
       | logo into a 1D one-color generic looking logo. Good for them!
        
       | Willox wrote:
       | I've been using Zoho for my personal email since 2014 now. They
       | haven't made me pay (yet) but I've definitely gotten them a
       | _small_ amount of money through recommendations.
       | 
       | I'd totally pay, though.
        
       | shp0ngle wrote:
       | On one hand, good for them! It seems like a fair company with no
       | secret catch.
       | 
       | On the other hand... each zoho product I have tried was "like
       | some other thing, but worse". All the products are basically
       | fine, but not excellent. But again it can find its customers
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | the one TC article I am actually yearning to read is behind a
       | paywall!
        
       | simonswords82 wrote:
       | Zoho feels like the Walmart SaaS of the Internet. Still, an
       | impressive annual run rate for a boot strapped business.
        
         | randall wrote:
         | So agree. The taste level of the products is terrible but they
         | all interoperate and it's crazy.
        
       | zdloft wrote:
       | My first experience with Zoho was their Zoho mail when working at
       | a small (2 people) civil engineering firm.
       | 
       | At first I was turned off because I was used to either Google
       | Workspace or Office but over time I got used to it and we started
       | using more and more of their suite of products. It was really
       | great to be able to add what we needed over time and not have to
       | find multiple different vendors.
       | 
       | Our focus was the civil engineering work so administrative tools
       | like this was just something that we needed for decent cost and
       | to work. Zoho provided that.
       | 
       | It's amazing to see where they have come. Hope they keep growing
       | and refining their product suite.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | Zoho's office package feels like the Libre Office of web office
         | packages.
         | 
         | But honestly, for a lot of people myself included, that's all
         | you need.
        
       | raybb wrote:
       | Is the text of the article available anywhere without a
       | subscription?
        
       | nabaraz wrote:
       | I migrated three of my personal emails from name cheap email
       | hosting to zoho and the spams i received went up by 20x. Out of
       | curiosity, I went ahead and move one of them back to namecheap, I
       | haven't received a single spam in the last week.
       | 
       | Is this something to do with spam filter?
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > Is this something to do with spam filter?
         | 
         | Yes, that's my biggest problem with Zoho so far: Having a
         | below-average quality spam filter sucks more than having a
         | below-average quality anything else, since it makes the
         | difference between receiving emails or not.
         | 
         | I'm not convinced there is any reason why it's bad. They could
         | up their game here.
        
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