[HN Gopher] Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K.... ___________________________________________________________________ Anti-royal protesters are being arrested in the U.K. as 'Not My King' tag grows Author : rntn Score : 128 points Date : 2022-09-12 21:16 UTC (1 hours ago) (HTM) web link (text.npr.org) (TXT) w3m dump (text.npr.org) | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: | Well, I guess this is progress. | | In the past, anti-royal protestors used to be hung, drawn, and | quartered. | HereIGoAgain wrote: | That's looking on the bright side! A glass half full type of | person i'm guessing. lol | user764743 wrote: | > The new law allows police to act in cases which they deem to be | "unjustifiably noisy protests that may have a significant impact | on others" or seriously disrupt an organization's activities. | | Doesn't take a political science degree to see what's wrong with | this law. When cops get to decide what is a justifiably loud | protest and what isn't you no longer have the right to protest. | Protests are meant to disrupt, if you can't be loud about it then | it no longer has its intended effect. | koheripbal wrote: | Protests are not meant to disrupt. | | They are meant to convince your fellow citizens of your | position. | | Being a disruptive $#@t, not only defeats that purpose, it | actually causes more people to vote against you. | | Moreover, emotionally driven teenagers (or stunted "adults") | use these protests as a pubescent venting mechanism to smash | business and mistreat adults they encounter, like some | narcissistic violent therapy session. | | It should absolutely be illegal. | ipaddr wrote: | That's literally what the word means. | [deleted] | patmcc wrote: | You should look up the history of protests. They _absolutely_ | are meant to disrupt. | mhh__ wrote: | Looting is illegal | whateveracct wrote: | This thread shows that many commenters of HN can understand free | speech incorrectly from both ends simultaneously. | | When it comes to government-sponsored situations, free speech is | very broad in the United States. | | The OP is a good example to point to when people act like the US | isn't special for its Constitution. | dijit wrote: | They aren't being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. | | They are being arrested for being rude about it. | | Was the fella on radio 4 who stated to the entire nation that | 'King Charles and his family should be put in a council house and | that the Monarchy should be abolished' arrested? No. | | If you are going to attend a funeral, any funeral, be it the | Queen's or anyone else's and hurl abuse or hold up signs with | obscenities, you will be arrested. | | There were arrests in which the arrestee has been unarrested, | when the police made a mistake. Like the fella who stated that | 'we didn't vote for him' when King Charles was pronounced King. | | You can, quite legally, protest the Monarchy. Being a dick about | it and trying to upset people mourning will however be considered | a breach of the peace or some other public order offence. | jj90 wrote: | closewith wrote: | > They aren't being arrested for being anti-monarchy though. | | > They are being arrested for being rude about it. | | Got it. Arrested for poor taste. | | Hard to see the justification for that in a democracy? | dijit wrote: | You will be arrested for hurling obscenities at mourners | regardless of who the dead person is. | | People were arrested at Margaret Thatchers funeral for the | same thing. | | It's not rocket science. You're not allowed to do that. | KptMarchewa wrote: | Once again, Americans are proud of the fact they can | protest at funerals. | defen wrote: | The alternative is that you can be arrested for saying | something mean at a funeral. I prefer the American | system. | munk-a wrote: | I don't - my father's funeral is literally two weeks | away. Some relatives that my mother doesn't get along | with at all aren't invited - they've never been | particularly close and it'll be healthier for everyone if | they don't stir shit in a time of healing. | | This isn't a case of protestors being repeatedly ignored | - the public discussion about the monarchy is unfolding | in most media outlets right now and other forms of | protest are still quite available. | throwawaymanbot wrote: | mytailorisrich wrote: | In Oxford someone was arrested for shouting " _who elected | him_ " during the proclamation of the new king so it's not | just about respecting a funeral (which is understable) or | unacceptable language. | | But in fairness to the police there seems to be a mass | fervour at the moment and they may actually be doing the | hecklers a service by taking them away for their own | safety... | krona wrote: | This is the point. 'Fear or provocation of violence' is | an offence since it precipitates violence, its a | provocation that 'might cause a reasonable individual to | lose self control', which would be quite dreadful! | account-5 wrote: | And then de-arrested. | ISL wrote: | In the United States, with certain limits [1], one can | picket funerals and be massively disrespectful. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church#L | aws_l... | metacritic12 wrote: | That section you linked shows that free-speech is indeed | limited within a certain radius of certain funerals. | peyton wrote: | I suggest you read the whole section. | mc32 wrote: | But this is a case in the UK. They have different laws | and observe different decorum. | | Even in the US I would think protesting a funeral to be | in extremely poor taste, no matter the target. What's | that Latin phrase about the recently dead? | HideousKojima wrote: | Yeah but the UK is where you can get arrested for making | your girlfriend's pug do a Nazi salute as a joke (but | somehow _Father Ted_ doing similar Nazi jokes gets a | pass) | kingsloi wrote: | https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo- | way/2011/03/02/134194791... | mc32 wrote: | I mean, the WBC is a well known agitator and not | representative of people or even protestors at large. In | any case, I contend it's in extremely poor taste and does | not help further the cause, and actively creates | antipathy. | wutbrodo wrote: | The article describes an activist who specifically took | pains to avoid any disparagement of the outgoing Queen, | limiting his protest to the incoming coronation. | | If that falls under the rule you're describing, doesn't | that render it impossible to protest a ceremony, as long | as it happens after a funeral? It seems you're defining | the protest of hereditary office holding has been defined | away as unacceptably rude? | azalemeth wrote: | This is a very clear distinction in the UK. There are a | number of constraints on someone's rights to make loud | noises in the UK, of which probably Section 5(1) of the | 1986 Public Order Act reads "(1) A | person is guilty of an offence if he/she: (a) | uses threatening (or abusive) words or behaviour, or | disorderly behaviour, or (b) displays any | writing, sign or other visible representation which is | threatening (or abusive)" | | with all of the usual lawyerly finness about what (b) | means being defined by common law precedent and the right | to freedom of expression largely being worked out by the | courts together with reference to the EHCR. Note that | things like animal rights protestors making loud noises | at university graduations (where the graduates have | nothing to do with animal experiments) have successfully | been challenged under this statute - the usual remedy is | a high court injunction relocating them to somewhere | visible and nearby, but out of earshot, of the thing they | are protesting against. | | It is worth noting that a long-running tradition in the | UK is that if a policeman disagrees with a piece of | legislation and the opportunity arises to challenge it | favourably in court, he arrests somebody under the | legislation in question in what may be favourable but | reasonable circumstances (favourable to the defendant) in | order to circumscribe the limitations of the act in | question. As a consequence, in many ways, I therefore | think that this may also be a challenge by police | officers to the validity of the conservative government's | latest legislation that aims to ban "disruptive" | protests, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act | 2022, which was largely modified to deal with the (IMO | effective) protests of the Insulate Britain campaign who | recently brought major motorways to a crawl. It is a | deeply divisive and very authoritarian bill, and would | cover this situation. Specifically, it provides that: | "[...] police forces are allowed to place restrictions on | protests they believe would otherwise constitute an | existing offence of public nuisance, including imposing | starting and finishing times and noise limits, and be | able to consider actions by one individual as protests | under provisions of the Act. Protestors disobeying such | instructions from the police may be committing a criminal | offence." | | In my opinion, this has already been used to stifle what | I find to be legitimate protest - "on 28 June 2022, the | day the act came into force, anti-Brexit activist Steve | Bray had his amplification equipment seized by police | under the 2011 Police Reform Social Responsibility Act. | The 2022 act extends the area around the House of Commons | in which protest is restricted under the 2011 act." [1]. | | As recognised by the police, positing the possibility of | transitioning to a republic (from a constitutional | monarchy) is almost certainly a clear-cut case of a | legitimate piece of protest, and so if someone _did_ | protest accordingly _without_ being rude and disruptive I | think this would be a perfect opportunity for the courts | to throw out the charge. | | Edit: Further bits of fun law - "public nuisance" is both | a tort and a _very_ old legal concept, recommended | effectively for removal and updating from the criminal | statutes by the Law Commission in 2015 [2]. It is | described quite formally in many words (c.f. [2]) but | more usefully defined by the fact that | typically consists either of an environmental nuisance, | such as carrying on works producing excessive | noise or smells, or of offensive or dangerous behaviour | in public, such as noisy parties and hanging from | bridges. It also includes obstructing the public | highway, though now this is also a statutory offence. | | Public nuisance therefore is a _much_ lower bar to | offence than either the public order act or breach of the | peace would be; and unlike those acts there is no | requirement for a _mens rea_ : there is no requirement | that the defendant intended or was reckless about whether | his conduct caused the relevant kind of harm. This is | quite a key point as it de facto lets the police decide | what the line is, with no input required on the part of | the defendant. I would be very interested to see a | reconciliation of these rights with that of freedom to | expression and the broader constitutional right to | protest in the UK. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police,_Crime,_Sentenci | ng_and_... | | [2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/u | ploads/... | bawolff wrote: | So? the US is a weird, barely functioning, democracy. Why | would anyone want to emulate it? | deskamess wrote: | What makes it weird? Why is it barely functioning? | peyton wrote: | Not arresting protestors is probably a good thing to | emulate regardless of your feelings about the US. | gambiting wrote: | Why does everything have to be so extremist with the US? | Everything taken to the absolute maximum imaginable? | | Protests should be allowed, but it's not an absolute god | given right - if you're being a dick, destroying public | property, advocating violence or hate - then no, you | shouldn't be allowed to protest. I know in America you | let even neo nazis march your streets and boast how | that's "freedom" but that's not freedom - that's blindly | following certain ideology(freedom to do anything AT ALL | costs) without any consideration as to what that does to | your society. | mwint wrote: | USAian here: | | > Protests should be allowed | | They are. | | > destroying public property | | Is illegal and you can be arrested for it. | | > advocating violence or hate | | Is illegal and you can be arrested for it. | | You just can't be arrested for "being rude". You have to | commit a crime. | | Protesting does not mean you're immune to prosecution for | non-free-speech crimes. What happened with the BLM riots | was simply governments deciding, for one reason or | another, not to stop the crimes being committed. | bawolff wrote: | as another example, US lets you bring guns to protests, i | am 100% on board with how my government (canada) arrests | any idiots who show up with a firearm to a protest. | | I generally like the right to protest, but i dont want | 100% free for all. | renewiltord wrote: | This is exactly why I refuse to walk. I'm told that | Hitler once walked. | koheripbal wrote: | Regardless of the legalities, it's not a behaviour anyone | should be proud of. | | If shitting in the street were legal would you complain | when people passed a law to stop your bad behaviour? | thomassmith65 wrote: | That's hardly something to be proud of. God, I hate | ideology. | LilBytes wrote: | I was about to quote the same church. Personally I think | the UK law got it right on this one. | zardo wrote: | A democracy certainly doesn't need rules to protect the | dignity of it's royal family. | ysleepy wrote: | Not a royal privilege though, the commoners enjoy the right | to an undisturbed funeral too. | misnome wrote: | Ah, so the entire country counts as the site of a funeral | now? | yellowapple wrote: | It does if it's for a royal, I guess. | ben_w wrote: | In a democracy? Sure, arrests can still occur, but one needs | to be a lot more careful than the argument OP used. | | However, the UK is a _kingdom_ in various important ways, and | this was the funeral of the head of state and the head of the | official state religion. | koheripbal wrote: | Screeching profanities at a funeral march should be a minor | crime. ...but perhaps more importantly, you should just be | ashamed of your childish behaviour. | googlryas wrote: | It's not being arrested for poor taste. They're being | arrested for their actions, not their beliefs. | | Is there some democracy somewhere which doesn't have a public | nuisance/breaching the peace style law? | mytailorisrich wrote: | Let's just say that the hecklers have been arrested much, | much faster (pretty much instantly, apparently) than the | "eco-activists" who recently blocked roads, petrol | stations, even motorways... | koheripbal wrote: | I think we agree that all disruptive assholes should be | arrested quickly. | metacritic12 wrote: | Is stealing someone else's wallet also in poor taste? Yes. | | If that thief gets arrested, is it just because it is poor | taste? No. | | Same thing with hurling obscenities at a funeral. | dqh wrote: | Do you really think you should have the right to disrupt the | funeral of someone you don't like? | pharmakom wrote: | What if the funeral is a 10 day extravaganza at tax payer | expense whilst some families are choosing between eating | and heating? | gambiting wrote: | I think we're reaching some insane point in this | discussion when a funeral of one of the most well known | people in the world, where leaders of literally every | major superpower are coming over to pay their respects is | called an extravaganza. | dTal wrote: | rlpb wrote: | Since about half the country seem to want to show up, it | seems reasonable and proportionate. I wouldn't have a | problem with some celebrity's funeral being a huge affair | either, even if I didn't care for that celebrity myself. | | In case I'm misunderstood, I don't feel strongly either | way about the British royalty, but I'm OK with allowing a | significant proportion of the population being left alone | to get on with what ceremony they want to do, given that | they want to do it. | alasdair_ wrote: | Yes. Absolutely. Assuming it's being held in public and, | especially, if it's a state figure. | | Even more so if the public is the one paying for the | funeral in the first place. You're definitely allowed to be | rude at a funeral you're footing the bill for. | lupire wrote: | USA has the famous Phelps family, a fake religion who | attack funerals and then sue the victims for fighting back, | and win. | alasdair_ wrote: | This happens less so now that large numbers of bikers | show up each time they try and stand directly in front of | them, holding large flags to block their signs. | bawolff wrote: | So in your view, the Phelps family is morally right? | | If not, why did you respond with this to a question about | is it morally right to protest at a funeral? | babypuncher wrote: | I think it's fair to make certain events, like funerals, off- | limits to protest. | | Freedom of speech does not mean you are free to say anything | you want wherever you want. I can't just walk into the Oval | Office and start hurling obscenities at the President, and | attempting to do so is likely to get me shot by the Secret | Service. | jakelazaroff wrote: | _> Freedom of speech does not mean you are free to say | anything you want wherever you want. I can 't just walk | into the Oval Office and start hurling obscenities at the | President, and attempting to do so is likely to get me shot | by the Secret Service._ | | For trespassing. This example has nothing to do with | speech. | bawolff wrote: | It has the same amount as the thing this article is | about, which makes it a good comparison (the article also | has nothing to do with the content of the speech) | tastyfreeze wrote: | You can hurl all the obscenities you like at the President. | You might be removed from the property but you won't be | shot. | munk-a wrote: | I was absolutely in favor of opposing funeral protests when | they were happening in America[1]. Freedom to protest doesn't | mean the freedom to abuse people when they're in an | emotionally fragile state. I think it's perfectly fair to | have a discussion about the validity of the monarchy moving | forward - and I think it's also perfectly fair to let those | folks who had some emotional connection (whether reciprocated | or single-directional) attend a funeral to remember the queen | in peace. | | 1. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- | xpm-2006-04-20-060420... - the government didn't directly | step in in this case but the protestors were effectively | silenced by way to crowds of decent folks with loud | motorcycles. | [deleted] | throwawaylinux wrote: | They arrested a person for making a video of his dog doing | nazi salutes. It's not that the royal family is singularly | fragile about being upset by other peoples' expression, the | whole of the UK is like that. | lupire wrote: | Fragile, civilized. Potato, potato. | alasdair_ wrote: | > They arrested a person for making a video of his dog | doing nazi salutes. It's not that the royal family is | singularly fragile about being upset by other peoples' | expression, the whole of the UK is like that. | | And yet at the same time one of the biggest movies in the | cinema was a Nazi spoof comedy with jokes in far poorer | taste. But the movie producers have money. | gambiting wrote: | That's like complaining that you will get arrested for | having sex in the middle of the street, but sex in a film | is somehow fine(surely it's because movie producers have | money and are in cahoots with the government, and not for | any other, more logical reason, like the fact that art | forms, no matter how poor in taste, are protected by | society). | bhk wrote: | I immediately suspected it was a misleading headline. (NPR was | a clue.) | throwawaymanbot wrote: | matthewh806 wrote: | I see this exact same comment did pretty well on Reddit too: | https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/xckw5v/comme... | | 1. Not all of the arrests have been made at a "funeral" 2. It | wasn't a funeral 3. If you're going to have a very public | precession, parading a body through the streets with all the | obedients lapping it up, surely you have to have a level of | tolerance for dissenting voices? I imagine the disruption this | event caused on Edinburgh was pretty large... | | There's wall to wall coverage of this event happening worldwide | right now, we need room for the dissenting voices too. | Otherwise it's just outright sycophancy | nimbius wrote: | i see quite a few confusing or ill spirited comments so I | suppose most of this thread is from a distinctly United States | American perspective. Its worth kindly pointing out the UK has | its own law and order, much of which applies to your character | and conduct in the public sphere. | | Conversely Whilst considered in egregiously poor taste, burlish | crass and offensive protests are generally permitted in the USA | provided they are performed on public property. a prime example | is the Westboro Baptist Church, a cavalcade of questionably | religious zealots who protest everything from LGBTQ funerals to | the funerals of war veterans. They shout, scream, and generally | send mourners into distress and misery for the duration of | their service. | mhh__ wrote: | Oh well that's all right then... | bjourne wrote: | The queen was a public figure whose lavish livelihood were paid | for by British tax-payers. So it seems to me that British | people should have the right to celebrate her death in any way | they please. Curtailing people's freedom of speech by misusing | public order laws (the queen's funeral is not comparable to any | normal funeral) is curtailing freedom of speech. | pera wrote: | Note that the arrests happened during the proclamation ceremony | of the new king. The funeral will be next Monday. | wutbrodo wrote: | True of the first two examples, but: | | > in London, a woman was led away by four uniformed officers on | Monday after holding up a sign reading "Not my king" -- which | has become a trending hashtag -- near Westminster Hall. | | If you count that as rude, you're essentially counting any | dissent as rude, no? | mhh__ wrote: | You should be allowed to have a sign with swearing on it. | | If prince Andrew gets to parade around in public give the | peasants some leeway as well | bendbro wrote: | kazinator wrote: | Police are looking for barrister Paul Powlesland who held up a | blank sign and only said we was _going_ to write "not my king" | on it: | | https://twitter.com/paulpowlesland/status/156935177260655002... | Havoc wrote: | >They are being arrested for being rude about it. | | Which is substantially worse. | | Rudeness is so subjective and context sensitive that it really | shouldn't form the basis for arrests | Gigachad wrote: | This is the UK. You get arrested for taking a plastic knife | outside or making mean tweets. | tills13 wrote: | It's likely for "disturbing the peace" which is a little more | cut-and-dry than rudeness. So many weird people on both sides | of this event, though. I don't care about the queen but props | to you if you do. Let's just not make it a thing more than it | needs to be. | lliamander wrote: | It may not be good that people are being arrested for | rudeness, but it is definitely better than them being | arrested for their political views. | AndyMcConachie wrote: | Oh ok. Does that mean if we ask nicely we can dissolve the | monarchy? | ipaddr wrote: | No nor can you dissolve the cia, close down US prisons | operating in Cuba or get the truth about ufos. Nor can you | vote for whoever you want to run the country you are given | two choices. | haunter wrote: | I mean yes? Elect MPs, vote for parties that support the | republic movement for a starter. It doesn't really help when | all the mainstream parties in the Westminster are royalists. | [deleted] | datalopers wrote: | I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous | collective. [1] | | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8bqQ-C1PSE | bawolff wrote: | Im totally A-ok with arresting people disrupting a funeral. | | Like sessh. These are people too. Let them have a funeral, you | can protest them afterwards. | alasdair_ wrote: | Disrupting a funeral is one thing. Disrupting a funeral the | public is forced to pay millions of pounds for, while other | members of said public can't afford food and electricity, is a | completely different matter. | bawolff wrote: | I don't think that it is. The rich and powerful are still | real people with real grief. I'm not opposed to people | protesting parliment or whatever, but let the mourners mourn | in peace. | kennend3 wrote: | I think you missed his point. | | The public paid for this funeral, and therefor they have | every right to participate in it. | | They should show some respect, it is a funeral after all. | If they wanted a "private funeral" they should pay for one. | bawolff wrote: | Is it your view that just because the state pays for | something the public has every right to do whatever they | want with it? | | This seems obviously false. Try walking into the petagon | some time proclaiming "the public paid for this military | base and therefor i have every right to participate in | it." And see how far that gets you. | prvc wrote: | I'll bet vanishingly few of the people with their hackles up | over this spoke out in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church | when it was in the news for their funeral protests. | mhh__ wrote: | This "funeral" is basically shutting down lots of the country | for a week. | AnimalMuppet wrote: | For all its faults, I love the US. I can go downtown with a sign | that says "Not my president", and I may get some cheers, may get | some boos. What I _won 't_ get is arrested. | | This is true no matter who is president. | | Now, if I were saying this about President Harris, say, when she | came to visit Biden's body while it was lying in state, that | would be _deplorable_ taste. It would be worse if my sign | criticized Biden while his family came to pay their respects. | That 's pretty extreme levels of being a tasteless jerk. It's not | grounds for arrest, though... in the US. | Gordonjcp wrote: | But you can be arrested for crossing the street in the wrong | place, and you can be shot by the police for any reason, | including because they feel like it. | tialaramex wrote: | To be fair the British cops sometimes shoot black people for | dubious reasons too. It's taken a bit more seriously here | (there will automatically be an investigation if anybody dies | after police contact not only the extremes of "a cop shot | them" or "he apparently committed suicide while in police | custody" but even something like "Police called for a welfare | check, decided everything was fine, but an hour later her | boyfriend strangled her to death") - but it does happen which | isn't great, and it is more notable since the vast majority | of British cops don't have guns, so this means they | specifically brought in armed police. | Kukumber wrote: | That's indeed very worrying, considering their stance on | "political arrests": | | Not too long ago: (Anti-war protesters arrested and beaten in | Russia) https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60641749 | | And i suspect the US will follow the UK in the upcoming midterm | election, 2024 is shaping up to be very interesting too | | Democracy is taking a huge hit in the west | cies wrote: | When a govt allows itself to be professionally lobbied, and | those lobbiest are well know by political science profs to | have "more say in policy decisions than the voters", do you | think such a govt can ever be truly democratic? | | At what point "democracy: becomes a facade, an empty ritual? | | (And sadly, more an more a justification to go at war) | klyrs wrote: | > I can go downtown with a sign that says "Not my president", | | Try that at the next ex-President's funeral. | cies wrote: | I recently saw a video of the current one, I was afraid he | would not make it will christmas. | | Unless of course Liz to him her trick. :) | codefreeordie wrote: | You would probably not get arrested, but depending on what city | you did this in, and under what circumstances, you might get | dead. | soupbowl wrote: | Any examples of that happening? | potta_coffee wrote: | Well, you may be killed but that's incidental to whatever | speech you're practicing; you'll just be killed for your | wallet. | troutwine wrote: | Trolling for violent reaction was one of the reasons the | Westboro Baptist Church would post up outside of funerals. | So far as I know it rarely worked, if ever. | mjhay wrote: | There has been a examples of this happening in the US, yes. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton | | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/20/us/protests-policing- | geor... | | https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/29/us-police- | br... | teachrdan wrote: | https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/seattle-protester- | hit-... | | "As protesters took to the streets in Indiana on July 6 to | decry an alleged hate crime at Lake Monroe, a red Toyota | Corolla sped toward them, dragging two protesters along, on | the hood and on the side of the car. Both suffered non- | life-threatening injuries. A few days later, a 66-year-old | white woman was arrested and charged in the incident." | | It was a point of pride for many right wingers to threaten | to crash their cars into non-violent protestors. | tmpz22 wrote: | You say this but IMO its not exactly true. | | By far my favorite example is the UC Davis pepper spray event. | Where sitting sedintary protestors were pepper sprayed by | campus police (the school then engaged a PR firm to attempt to | wipe evidence from the internet...) | | [1]: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident | miles wrote: | "The three dozen student demonstrators, meanwhile, were | collectively awarded US$1 million by UC Davis in a settlement | from a federal lawsuit, with each pepper-sprayed student | receiving $30,000 individually." | carabiner wrote: | googlryas wrote: | reddit.com comment material right here. | Jabbles wrote: | > It's not grounds for arrest, though... in the US | | Are you sure? It's not absolutely certain. | | https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1112/funeral-pr... | haunter wrote: | That reminds me to my favorite Soviet-era joke | | An american reporter visits a communist country and asks a | person on the street about freedom. He says "America is so free | I can stand up on the subway and criticize and say anything | about the president, no one would care about it. How is the | situation here?" The person replies: "Well I can can stand up | on the subway and criticize and say anything about the US | president here too, no one would care about it!" | vkou wrote: | > What I won't get is arrested. | | You must have missed the summer of love that we had two years | ago, when crowds of protesters were regularly beaten and | gassed, and often arrested (Charges would, of course, get | dropped, because it's not actually illegal to protest.) | | But you are correct, it's possible to protest the British | monarchy as much as you want in the US, with next to | consequences. :) | thrown_22 wrote: | mostly-peaceful.jpg | | https://www.nationalreview.com/wp- | content/uploads/2020/08/CN... | tialaramex wrote: | _Maybe_ what this says is that you 're not paying attention, | _maybe_ it says you belong to a group who US police are less | likely to target for arrest. Or maybe you 'd just end up dead | in a ditch instead of arrested, which doesn't seem better than | getting arrested. | | Bad taste isn't grounds for arrest in the UK either. In the | unlikely event any of these people end up actually in court, | they'll be charged with something else, in most cases it seems | like public order offences. The same sort of charge you'd get | if the cops arrest you drunk outside a bar yelling abuse at | people and they decide you won't just sober up and go home with | a caution. | | Here's what the ACLU were able to have released from the White | House (in the Bush era) about what the Secret Service do to | prepare before a presidential visit: | | "As a last resort, security should remove the demonstrators | from the event site" | | It doesn't say they get arrested, but of course if you're not | free to go about your business, then does it really matter | whether you were "arrested" or not ? | sokoloff wrote: | When later answering questions on a security clearance SF-86 | application or other background check "have you been arrested | in the last seven years?" would be one way in which it could | matter. | ipaddr wrote: | That is not a question you would be asked. You would be | asked if you have ever been convicted of a criminal offense | a pardon wasn't granted for. | waiwai933 wrote: | > Section 22 - Police Record | | > For this section report information regardless of | whether the record in your case has been sealed, | expunged, or otherwise stricken from the court record, or | the charge was dismissed. You need not report convictions | under the Federal Controlled Substances Act for which the | court issued an expungement order under the authority of | 21 U.S.C. 844 or 18 U.S.C. 3607. Be sure to include all | incidents whether occurring in the U.S. or abroad. | | > 22.1 Have any of the following happened? (If 'Yes' you | will be asked to provide details for each offense that | pertains to the actions that are identified below.) | | > - In the last seven (7) years have you been issued a | summons, citation, or ticket to appear in court in a | criminal proceeding against you? (Do not check if all the | citations involved traffic infractions where the fine was | less than $300 and did not include alcohol or drugs) | | > - In the last seven (7) years have you been arrested by | any police officer, sheriff, marshal or any other type of | law enforcement official? | | > - In the last seven (7) years have you been charged | with, convicted of, or sentenced for a crime in any | court? (Include all qualifying charges, convictions or | sentences in any Federal, state, local, military, or | non-U.S. court, even if previously listed on this form). | | > - In the last seven (7) years have you been or are you | currently on probation or parole? | | > - Are you currently on trial or awaiting a trial on | criminal charges? | sokoloff wrote: | See section 22 here: | https://www.opm.gov/forms/pdf_fill/sf86.pdf | | It reads in part: | | For this section report information regardless of whether | the record in your case has been sealed, expunged, or | otherwise stricken from the court record, or the charge | was dismissed. You need not report convictions under the | Federal Controlled Substances Act for which the court | issued an expungement order under the authority of 21 | U.S.C. 844 or 18 U.S.C. 3607. Be sure to include all | incidents whether occurring in the U.S. or abroad. | | 22.1 Have any of the following happened? (If 'Yes' you | will be asked to provide details for each offense that | pertains to the actions that are identified below.) | | - In the last seven (7) years have you been issued a | summons, citation, or ticket to appear in court in a | criminal proceeding against you? (Do not check if all the | citations involved traffic infractions where the fine was | less than $300 and did not include alcohol or drugs) | | - In the last seven (7) years have you been arrested by | any police officer, sheriff, marshal or any other type of | law enforcement official? | | - In the last seven (7) years have you been charged with, | convicted of, or sentenced for a crime in any court? | (Include all qualifying charges, convictions or sentences | in any Federal, state, local, military, or non-U.S. | court, even if previously listed on this form). | | - In the last seven (7) years have you been or are you | currently on probation or parole? | | - Are you currently on trial or awaiting a trial on | criminal charges? | googlryas wrote: | You can do that in the UK too, just not during a funeral | procession. | | The US has laws against protesting at the funerals of Armed | Service members. If you really want to rage against something, | why not the thing from your own society, instead of the thing | from some other society? | lupire wrote: | There is a bit of a correlation between people who are | ignorant of the world around them, and people who don't see a | need for civilized behavior. | rconti wrote: | Citation? I've never heard this before. I'm aware of the | westboro baptist protesting at funerals of gay people or | other "sinners" they don't like; they're wholly awful people. | I didn't realize it was illegal to protest at a | servicemember's funeral, though. Does this come out of the | Vietnam war? | Janicc wrote: | This is a country in which people who share memes mocking the | trans flag are arrested. At least they're being consistent. | Although obviously I'd prefer neither being arrested in the first | place. | Gigachad wrote: | The official reason that guy got arrested was for "a tweet | causing anxiety" | lern_too_spel wrote: | What fun is a monarchy if you can't have a revolution? | metacritic12 wrote: | In order to get towards that goal, Charles III should up the | ante and use his reserve powers to dissolve parliament. Would | make for a good show to see what the reaction would be. | krona wrote: | > Would make for a good show to see what the reaction would | be. | | Mostly supportive. | Kukumber wrote: ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-09-12 23:00 UTC)