[HN Gopher] EVGA terminates Nvidia partnership [video]
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EVGA terminates Nvidia partnership [video]
Author : ribosometronome
Score : 316 points
Date : 2022-09-16 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| fiat_fandango wrote:
| Guess I might as well RMA my 3090 FTW 3 before the gig is up.
|
| Very sad to see this announcement, some of my happiest nerd years
| (not spend blowing stuff up with friends in my backyard) in
| highschool were building PC's trading up EVGA GPU's.
|
| RIP EVGA - I hope PNY picks up the slack, ASUS boards have only
| really been trouble for me.
| jacooper wrote:
| They will continue supporting 30 series cards and will respect
| warranties.
| dcchambers wrote:
| Wow. EVGA was always the gold standard for Nvidia cards IMO
| (until Nvidia started producing and selling their own).
| Unbeatable warranty. Cooler designs that weren't too offensive or
| jarring. Decent software. What a shame.
| moogly wrote:
| Their 1080 launch was botched with improper RAM cooling and
| ensuing RMAs/having to send out replacement memory thermal pad
| kits. I went through 2 cards that died on day 1 myself.
|
| I seem to recall their 3080 launch also being a bit bumpy...
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| > EVGA was always the gold standard for Nvidia cards IMO (until
| Nvidia started producing and selling their own).
|
| Oof, this sentence just proves their point.
| gambiting wrote:
| >>Unbeatable warranty
|
| They turned from god tier to trash tier after Brexit. Literally
| the only company that didn't invest in a UK-based repair
| centre, so when I recently had to send my broken EVGA Black
| 2080Ti for repair, I was told to ship it to Germany, then got
| charged PS200 in customs duties for replacement shipped back to
| me. The thing is, there is a way to avoid customs on
| replacement items following warranty claim - but EVGA doesn't
| care to fill out the customs documents properly. I messaged
| them telling them _exactly_ how to fill it out properly so it
| will go through without charges(we do this kind of thing all
| the time), they basically said yeah sorry not our problem, we
| gave you a new GPU for free so why are you complaining. And I
| 'm not the only one with this issue - quick look at their
| forums shows loads of UK-based people getting charged customs
| duties for parts sent by EVGA. They just advise to appeal to
| HMRC for a refund(which is actually pretty difficult to do and
| can take months), like it wasn't their bloody issue in the
| first place.
|
| Already made a vow to never buy anything from EVGA again after
| that, so I'm pretty glad this won't even be a risk now.
| headhasthoughts wrote:
| That sounds like it's more a problem with your country's
| ongoing deinternationalization than EVGA being bad. Would you
| expect a company to open a Russia-based repair center right
| now?
|
| When a country is deliberately harming its international
| trade ability, it's not on companies for not playing ball--
| it's on the country not to pull the ground out from under its
| citizens and companies doing commerce there.
|
| EVGA did nothing wrong. Your country changed the deal, EVGA
| chose to not humor it.
| throwaway821909 wrote:
| Ironically the EU warranty rules are still in place and it
| feels to me like this would probably break them. EVGA can
| say "Britain has become an bad place to do business post-
| Brexit" and leave, plenty of people, especially young
| people who buy graphics cards, would support it (but
| probably wouldn't care enough to import their products from
| elsewhere).
|
| But to stay and then make your customers responsible for
| unexpected charges when your own product turns out to be
| faulty, seems like a bad sign.
| buildbot wrote:
| But that is how repairs and warranties work across
| international borders? Unless there are trade agreements
| that say otherwise. It sounds like this person got a new
| GPU as a warranty replacement, and customs was like,
| well, this is such and such tariff.
|
| And typically, companies and people will just ignore you
| if you ask them to do something they think is illegal,
| like saying an item is gift when shipping
| internationally. People try to get me to pull this when
| shipping on eBay to save on the import costs all the
| time.
| gambiting wrote:
| No, I'm sorry, but you are 10000% wrong about this. I hate
| brexit and everything this country has become, but this is
| absolutely one hundred percent on EVGA. There is a way to
| send items internationally after warranty repairs so they
| don't attract charges, there is a tariff code that you use
| and declaration that you make, which is something that I
| told EVGA explicitly, and they still decided to ignore.
| That's shit customer service.
|
| >>EVGA did nothing wrong.
|
| Yes they did. You can't fill out customs documents
| incorrectly and then just throw your hands in the air and
| say "well it's your fault for brexit, what do you want us
| to do? file official paperwork correctly? Fuck you for
| buying a PS1200 GPU from us I guess".
|
| I'd honestly much rather that they just said "look, we are
| too lazy to read up how to fill out customs declarions, so
| we are just going to stop providing warranty services to
| our UK customers". Would have been more honest at least.
| sbdncuvh wrote:
| Your mistake was to pay the customs duties and receive
| the goods.
|
| What you should have done was taken them to tribunal for
| the missing warranty item they owed you.
| gambiting wrote:
| Very true. Should have done that.
| frognumber wrote:
| We kind of can. England turned India into an impoverished
| country, backstabbed Poland at the start of WWII, raped
| half of Africa, broke the Middle East, killed most of the
| Native Americans, not to mention the whole slavery bit.
| It still has artifacts from all over the world. Oh, and
| China+Opium. Irish potato famine.
|
| I have nothing against England, mind you, but I do have a
| problem with the English whining about tariffs, tourism,
| or whatnot after Brexit. Seriously.
|
| If EVGA were addicting your country to drugs, shipping
| you off for slavery, and stealing your artifacts, you'd
| have a case. Complaining about someone not filling out
| your tariff form the way you'd like is sheer entitlement
| and hypocrisy. Boohoo.
| gambiting wrote:
| >> but I do have a problem with the English whining about
| tariffs, tourism, or whatnot after Brexit
|
| Good thing I'm not British then.
|
| >>. Complaining about someone not filling out your tariff
| form the way you'd like is sheer entitlement and
| hypocrisy.
|
| Really? Not filling out customs documents correctly is
| now anything other than lazy and incompetent? Wow.
| frognumber wrote:
| > Good thing I'm not British then.
|
| I'm not quite sure what you are. Can you clarify?
|
| Brexit only affects the British. Do you mean you're not
| English?
|
| For the general public: England is a country. Britain is
| an island, which includes England, Scotland, and Wales.
| The British Isles are a set of islands, which adds
| principally Ireland and the Isle of Man. The UK is a
| union of several countries, including Scotland, England,
| and Northern Ireland. Most of the English have nearly as
| poor a grasp of the differences here as they do of the
| random former imperial belongings they screwed up. Most
| assume Britain=England and call the English "Brits."
|
| > Really? Not filling out customs documents correctly is
| now anything other than lazy and incompetent? Wow.
|
| You mean like randomly drawing maps on a line to divide
| up the Middle East, without getting anyone local
| involved? Yes! It is.
|
| Fortunately, it only costs you a couple hundred bucks,
| and not decades of war.
|
| I have nothing against the "Brits," but each time they do
| this, I have this image of a rich, spoiled brat yelling
| at a minimum wage barista for 15 minutes about screwing
| up an order. Yes, she should have made a DOUBLE soy
| latte, but get over yourself. Sheesh.
| andrewf wrote:
| This is a pity. I called them once 1 week before the warranty
| expired on a graphics card that had become glitchy. I think the
| people I spoke to were in SoCal, they were knowledgable, took
| their time, and happy to facilitate. I'll be favoring their other
| components the next time I want a PC built.
| user68858788 wrote:
| My 1070 was two years out of warranty when it started on fire
| and they still replaced it. They're so helpful to their
| customers. I'm sad to see them going.
| overgard wrote:
| Yikes how did it catch on fire?!?
| giantrobot wrote:
| Slowly and then very quickly.
| Arrath wrote:
| Presumably sometime after the magic smoke escaped.
| steelframe wrote:
| Presumably EVGA didn't do forensics, and if they did, they
| may not have had incentive to publicize the defect.
|
| Suffice it to say that most materials are flammable if they
| get hot enough. And there are plenty of reasons why a
| circuit board with many components hooked up to a power
| supply might get really, really hot. I'm surprised
| electronic components don't catch fire more frequently.
| Arrath wrote:
| My limited experience with their warranty/RMA folks has been
| very positive, this is an unfortunate development. Watching the
| GN video, I understand their motives though.
| kevingadd wrote:
| I've had bad enough luck with component failures that I've
| probably cost them nearly as much in RMA costs as I've paid
| them for products - but I've still always had a good experience
| with their customer service and warranty processing for
| motherboards, power supplies and GPUs. Definitely a shame to
| have them step out of the GPU market.
| sva_ wrote:
| Well don't buy their PSUs, since they're just some random
| Chinese PSUs with an EVGA logo slapped on it.
|
| Source: I had one of their PSUs, it randomly died due to a
| failing fan, and I had to wait 3-4 months for a replacement.
| They only sent me one after I complained to them on their
| customer satisfaction form which was also broken and directed
| me to some US agents, while I'm in EU. I finally got a new PSU
| with US cord, and some EU cord adapter thrown into the package.
| Kinda bizarre.
|
| Many people on the web report issues with their PSUs and
| recommend against them.
|
| PS: I had great experience with their RMA process. They
| replaced a 4.5 year old GPU and even gave me a better one. So
| I'm still pretty happy with them.
| devrand wrote:
| > Well don't buy their PSUs, since they're just some random
| Chinese PSUs with an EVGA logo slapped on it.
|
| That's basically every brand. Corsair/ASUS/EVGA/NZXT/Cooler
| Master... none of them actually make PSUs.
|
| The only "big" brand I know of that sells directly is
| Seasonic.
| ApolIllo wrote:
| I have an evga PSU made by SeaSonic and they have others made
| by FSP. I wouldn't say their PSU OEMs are "just some random
| Chinese PSUs"
| least wrote:
| This is a shame. While I haven't bought a new GPU in some time,
| I've been using EVGA since my 7800GT. They've _always_ had
| excellent customer service and RMAs were painless and quite often
| they 'd even send you an upgraded card. One of my 780 Tis broke
| and I received a new GTX 980. I also had to RMA my 7800GT and
| received an 8800GT. Their upgrade program is also quite generous,
| though I personally have never taken advantage of it.
|
| I'm not sure that it'll affect me as I don't know the next time
| I'll consider building a gaming pc (if ever again) but it still
| saddens me that one of the "good ones" is exiting the business. I
| do hope they consider supporting AMD cards in the future, which I
| find easier to support as a consumer than Nvidia.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| There was _ONE_ truth in PC gaming. EVGA is quality. Period. If
| you had the cash, you bought EVGA for peace of mind, this is the
| end of a dynasty wow!
|
| What are they going to make to continue making money? Sell power
| supplies alone?
| wnevets wrote:
| EVGA was probably the best Nvidia AIB, very shocking
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| Imagine working for a company and one day the CEO announces that
| it will literally commit company suicide.
|
| I can't understand why he wouldn't step down, this puts the
| livelihood of 500+ people at extreme risk for what seems like a
| selfish decision.
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| It's crazy to see them go, they've been a big name in the GPU
| space since as long as I can remember. If they truly don't expand
| into AMD GPUs or something else as they've said, I don't see them
| sticking around in the long term. A bit sad, they have been a
| good company to their customers.
|
| I don't blame them though, it sounds like Nvidia is a PITA to
| deal with, and the recent pains with GPU shortages and mining
| have likely exacerbated it as well.
|
| My best wishes to their employees, hope they all find good work
| elsewhere.
| frognumber wrote:
| The problem is that AMD GPUs basically don't work. Intel also
| has issues. ML is big, and that's NVidia's game.
|
| Many years ago, Matrox had a nice niche. Their cards were
| stable, reliable, and open-source. They weren't the fastest,
| but they were widely used for CAD, workstation, and business
| work. I'd like something like that today. I'm surprised Intel
| can't pull it off.
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| Define "Basically don't work"? They've been competing at the
| top end with Nvidia for at least the last couple generations.
| It was a toss up between things like the 3080 and 6800XT for
| the same price. They've been on a hell of a roll for awhile
| now.
| WaxProlix wrote:
| Yeah, what? I've been pretty happy with my 6900xt. ML
| workloads are not as good without Nvidia branded stuff, but
| games run great and with lower power draw/heat than
| competition.
| westmeal wrote:
| Dude what? Ok sure older and cards were hot garbage but not
| nowadays
| [deleted]
| Jweb_Guru wrote:
| Modern AMD GPUs are fantastic, and I would recommend them
| over NVIDIA cards for most people. I'm not really sure where
| you're getting this from.
| flyinghamster wrote:
| I have one of their GTX 960s, and it's been rock-solid even
| when it has been continuously crunching on BOINC projects for
| months on end.
|
| I was hoping that the crash in crypto mining would bring some
| sanity back to the GPU market, but (like all too many things)
| it's really not a market after all, and sanity is too much to
| ask for.
|
| I'm sad to see them go as well, but if they can't make money
| building graphics cards, then I don't blame them for getting
| out.
| _jal wrote:
| I do hope it is a feint and they end up in AMD-land.
|
| I would not be the least bit sad if I never put another dime in
| Nvidia's pocket. They're not the ugliest scumbags out there,
| but definitely in the bottom 20%.
| matthewfcarlson wrote:
| Right- I've been a loyal EVGA customer for 10+ years but only
| for GPUs. I was planning an upgrade to the upcoming 4000 series
| but now I'm questioning whether to upgrade at all. But I agree
| with the sentiment expressed above, thanks for all the high
| quality GPUs over the years and good luck with what's next.
| ROTMetro wrote:
| Strange, NVidia entered existence off of their great relationship
| with SGI. Who would think they would have relationship issues?
| gzer0 wrote:
| Here's the reason WHY EVGA is no longer working with NVIDIA:
|
| -----
|
| > _EVGA and competing board partners have told us in nearly every
| launch that they don 't find out basics about the very product
| their partner to sell, like the MSRP until Nvidia CEO is on
| stage. We're told this is true even for costs to buy the chip and
| video apparently only give us placeholder costs for some GPUs
| like flagships until the MSRP is revealed publicly._
|
| > _It 's hard to run a business when you don't even know what the
| cost of your product is that you're imminently launching, we've
| learned that NVIDIA has both a floor and a ceiling for card
| prices on some cards so only flagships for the ceiling, with
| board partners restricted from selling flagship models above a
| certain cost._
|
| -----
|
| TL;DR
|
| EVGA and competing board partners said they don't know the MSRP
| until Nvidia's CEO is on stage. Even processor and video expenses
| are unknown until the MSRP is released.
|
| When you don't know your product's price, it's challenging to
| manage a business. NVIDIA has a price floor and cap for select
| cards, and board partners can't sell flagship models above a
| certain price.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| _It 's hard to run a business when you don't even know what the
| cost of your product is that you're imminently launching_
|
| This strongly seems like a lie. They've been in business long
| enough that the current relationship between them and Nvidia
| appeared to be successful. If it truly wasn't successful, they
| could have moved over to manufacturing AMD GPUs. Instead, they
| just dropped the business entirely.
|
| It seems much more likely that they recognize that the five-
| year GPU boom is over with the ETH merge, didn't want to have
| to weather the coming bust cycle, and are trumping up excuses
| to exit the business so that their brand isn't damaged for
| their other products.
| xxs wrote:
| If it is any help, their decision was made in April, 5 months
| before the merge. They told they lost money on 3080+ cards as
| well.
| jasonlotito wrote:
| It was June, not April. See the correction.
|
| Regardless, they knew the merge was happening, and what
| that would mean to the market, so it's fairly suspicious
| nonetheless.
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| Oh wow the price cap must be infuriating during the mining
| boom.
| sv123 wrote:
| Not much information, wonder why?
| driscoll42 wrote:
| AS much as I hate video, Gamers Nexus did a video on it -
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9QES-FUAM
|
| Seems like main reasons are that NVIDIA has been a very hard to
| work with partner, by not disclosing MSRP to partners until
| announcing to the public, along with the direct competition in
| the form of Founder's Edition cards the compete with AIB cards.
| dragontamer wrote:
| EVGA is one of the most reputable board makers, so they will be
| sorely missed in the market. It was always worth it to spend a
| few extra bucks on EVGA, because you knew that they'd have good
| warranties and service.
|
| At least their PSUs will still be around?
| drunner wrote:
| Uhh, what does EVGA carry besides graphics cards? Are they going
| to carry AMD cards now or just going to downsize and survive on
| other minor component sales?
| isatty wrote:
| They were always a PSU company to me, and that is arguably more
| important than the GPU. One can cause significant damage and
| house fires.
| kube-system wrote:
| I mean, from the beginning their name was styled "eVGA" and
| they sold VGA cards.
| ollien wrote:
| Motherboards, power supplies, a bunch of stuff. All visible on
| their website :)
| kmeisthax wrote:
| The latter. They have no plans of building video cards, period.
|
| My guess? They got so stressed out dealing with the chip
| shortage that they're all burned-out internally.
| favorited wrote:
| They're being undercut by Nvidia as Nvidia rushes to clear
| their remaining 30-series stock. EVGA claims to be losing
| money on every 3080-and-higher card, and they can't compete
| with Nvidia's margins.
| smoldesu wrote:
| I bought a ludicrously cheap 1200w power supply from them once.
| No house fires yet!
| deathanatos wrote:
| ... I've been wanting one of their PSUs for a while now, but
| every time I try to buy it, the site is down. (And the "buy"
| site appears to be separate from the "marketing" site, so I
| can see the page with the PSU, the "it's on sale!". It's just
| the actual "shut up and take my money" part that apparently
| doesn't function.)
|
| So IDK, maybe their PSU dept. is doing great.
| ch_123 wrote:
| The last I checked, EVGA's PSUs have a very good reputation
| vpunk wrote:
| Yes, but EVGA does not exactly make PSU's, they are all
| rebranded OEM's like Super Flower, FSP, etc.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| That works for me, if there is competent quality control.
| [deleted]
| ls612 wrote:
| Well they only rebrand Seasonic and Super Flower so they
| should be very good products. I currently run a G6 1000w
| unit (rebadged seasonic) and hope to use it for the rest of
| this decade or more.
| babypuncher wrote:
| The only PSU I've ever actually had fail on me was from
| EVGA, but their customer service was incredible as usual
| and replaced it quickly with no fuss.
|
| I'm willing to chalk that up to just bad luck on my part,
| because they certainly don't have a reputation for selling
| bad PSUs, unlike Gigabyte.
| rektide wrote:
| EVGA is forever on my shitlist for selling me two cards with
| unlimited warranties (geforce 4's?) them switching teams (red
| amd) & telling me they wouldnt replace the card that up & died
| like 2.5 years latter.
| RandomBK wrote:
| Can you elaborate? I don't recall EVGA ever making AMD GPUs
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| He might've gotten them confused with xfx that switched from
| nvidia to amd.
| MuffinFlavored wrote:
| As somebody who is out of the loop, why might this be?
| kmeisthax wrote:
| GamersNexus has a long video on it: https://youtu.be/cV9QES-
| FUAM
| zppln wrote:
| Anyone care to summarize it?
| [deleted]
| K5EiS wrote:
| "EVGA has terminated its relationship with NVIDIA. EVGA
| will no longer be manufacturing video cards of any type,
| citing a souring relationship with NVIDIA as the cause
| (among other reasons that were minimized). EVGA will not be
| exploring relationships with AMD or Intel at this time, and
| the company will be downsizing imminently as it exits the
| video card market. Customers will still be covered by EVGA
| policies, but EVGA will no longer make RTX or other video
| cards. "
| taspeotis wrote:
| GamersNexus has a tweet summarising it
|
| https://mobile.twitter.com/GamersNexus/status/1570850305071
| 5...
| [deleted]
| cypress66 wrote:
| It would have been better if they spun off their gpu decision,
| but that's fair.
| NavinF wrote:
| Maybe. The CEO told GN their margins were negative for high end
| GPUs. I dunno if the GPU division is worth enough to make up
| for losing control over the EVGA brand because it's shared by 2
| companies.
| cypress66 wrote:
| Spun off with a new name was my idea
| monkmartinez wrote:
| Jensen Huang stated that Nvidia was going to make moves to move
| cards before the upcoming launch of the 40 series in August's
| earning call: " We implemented programs with our Gaming channel
| partners to adjust pricing in the channel and to price-position
| current high-end desktop GPUs as we prepare for a new
| architecture launch." <- https://www.yahoo.com/video/edited-
| transcript-nvda-oq-earnin...
|
| Could this be a move in that direction? Will EVGA suddenly come
| back once they sell out? Is this planned? Consipiracy?
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| Basically NVIDIA can withstand the hit to margins by huge price
| drops but AIBs cannot.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| Is this a nice way of saying they're winding down their business?
| londons_explore wrote:
| Sounds like a wind-down but still offering support for existing
| products.
|
| It's an expensive thing to do, but is very noble!
|
| I guess the CEO will be taking the odd support call at 2am 10
| years from now...
| kipchak wrote:
| I have a lot of respect to EVGA for honoring GPU waitlists over
| the last few years.
| jamespullar wrote:
| There was an official statement released by a EVGA employee on
| their company forum https://forums.evga.com/Official-Message-
| from-EVGA-Managemen...
|
| - EVGA will not carry the next generation graphics cards.
|
| - EVGA will continue to support the existing current generation
| products.
|
| - EVGA will continue to provide the current generation products.
|
| "EVGA is committed to our customers and will continue to offer
| sales and support on the current lineup. Also, EVGA would like to
| say thank you to our great community for the many years of
| support and enthusiasm for EVGA graphics cards."
| Temporary_31337 wrote:
| Some of you may not realise that VGA stands for Video Graphics
| Adapter so bit silly for EVGA to stop selling video cards and
| keeping the name as is.
| shmerl wrote:
| I hope Sapphire will stick with AMD and it's not some bad trend
| going on.
| bawana wrote:
| The gold mine of crypto mining has dried up. NVIDIA needs to
| squeeze their partners so they can maintain profits, as does AMD.
| They want to be like APPLE, the only ones to sell their cards.
| And EVGA had something no other board partner or NVIDIA had-great
| customer support.
| yuan43 wrote:
| How much of this has to do with the overnight evaporation of the
| GPU mining market due to the Ethereum merge?
| TheNorthman wrote:
| In the video, they say they informed nVidia of this in April of
| 2022, so probably nothing.
| yuan43 wrote:
| Beacon chain launched in late 2020. The writing was on the
| wall by early 2022.
| jasonlotito wrote:
| This was my first thought. They were prepared to do this, and
| once that market has dried up, they are ditching people and
| trying to lay blame elsewhere, and it seems to be working.
| ru552 wrote:
| Announcing you aren't making the next gen product is not
| ditching people. They specifically state that they will
| continue to sell and service current gen gear.
| moomoo11 wrote:
| I got a 3080 thanks to their waitlist program. This sucks to hear
| and hopefully they get back into the game in the future. Great
| support as well.
|
| Which brand is as good as EVGA now that they're out?
| goldcd wrote:
| The nVidia/Board-partners relationship seemed to go completely
| sideways around the launch of the 3xxx series. If you remember
| back to the launch, they just hurled chips at them with late
| notice (so some glitchy 3rd party boards shipped) and pricing
| they couldn't compete with nVidia's own boards on.
|
| No idea when crypto took off and supply was constrained, who was
| taking the profits - but I'd guess nVidia. Now the partners are
| left holding huge numbers of boards as the prices crash. My guess
| is to get allocation from nVidia they had to commit to volume and
| price, but retailers can just return un-sold stock as sale or
| return (or just demand to pay less, as they drop prices)
|
| I can see why if you survived that, you might just want to step
| aside from the market - as next time it might take you down.
| Especially if you're EVGA and prided yourself on premium
| products/support - and smell a race-to-the-bottom coming.
|
| As majority of what you pay goes on the GPU itself (memory is at
| least a commodity) - there's probably not a lot of meat left for
| the partner that's taking the risks.
|
| Does make you wonder what quality's going to be like on 4xxx.
| jacooper wrote:
| I think this announcement can be summarized as this from the
| CEO/Owner's perspective(especially after watching GNs video)
|
| - why am I dealing with this crap? Its taking from my time that I
| could've spent on my family!
|
| - And we aren't making much profit at all!
|
| - I don't know people that make products and manage the company
| like me
|
| - Life is about people, and I wouldn't betray anyone, so I will
| keep paying the people that kept my company running
|
| - AMD and Intel probably do the same crap, I don't want to do it
| again.
|
| - PSUs are doing fine
| frognumber wrote:
| No, I think the problem is that AMD and Intel make
| uncompetitive, unstable products. I think EVGA would jump ship
| if their products worked.
| whichdan wrote:
| I know they don't have plans to work with AMD but I'd consider
| switching to AMD for my next card if EVGA was manufacturing it.
| They fixed an old card of mine way out of warranty so I have some
| brand loyalty here.
| ls612 wrote:
| I got a FTW 3080ti for my new PC a few months ago so I am very
| sad to see them exit the market. I worry about my current card's
| warranty though, will they still have 3080tis in storage in 2-3
| years if I get unlucky and my card dies...
| TT-392 wrote:
| They said they are planning to keep some stock for those
| purposes
| symlinkk wrote:
| I never understood what value these third parties (EVGA, MSI,
| etc) were providing over just getting the card straight from
| NVIDIA / AMD.
| keepquestioning wrote:
| This must be one of the biggest dummy spits in the history of
| computer hardware!
| MangoCoffee wrote:
| high sales != profit
|
| even if EVGA GPU sales is high, the company can lose money.
|
| EVGA probably make more money on their PSU consider the cost is
| low and the markup can be high
| jdprgm wrote:
| I've never really understood why there are all these 3rd party
| variants of GPU's in the first place and not just all from
| Nvidia.
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| Same reason fast food places franchise instead of running every
| store: all the benefits with none of the risk.
| skellyclock wrote:
| I watched the video. Seems like nvidia's CEO wants to go the
| apple route and sell everything themselves.
|
| I do wonder about EVGA's decision. Why call gamersnexus in for an
| interview? It seems to me this is part of a strategy to get intel
| and AMD tripping over their dicks to get EVGA working on their
| GPUs - and get one/both of them to agree to conditions nvidia
| wouldn't.
|
| I think its a smart business move if nvidia has laid their cards
| on the table so clearly. Reminds me of how valve went all-in on
| linux development when microsoft threatened their whole business
| with windows 10.
| unicornmama wrote:
| As a consumer I would prefer it. If all they did was narrow
| selection it would be a win. An online search for 3080 RTX
| yields more brand flavors than a toothpaste aisle. Except
| consumers can understand toothpaste flavors. No idea why we
| need dozens of otherwise indistinguishable video card
| variations.
| addaon wrote:
| > Except consumers can understand toothpaste flavors.
|
| Can we? Here's the currently available US flavors / varieties
| of ONE brand, Colgate: Advanced White
| Charcoal Toothpaste Advanced White Toothpaste
| Anti-Tartar + Whitening Toothpaste Cavity Protection
| Toothpaste Charcoal Natural Extracts Charcoal
| Toothpaste Colgate Baby Toothpaste 0-2 years
| Colgate Kids Magic Toothpaste 6-9 years Colgate Kids
| Toothpaste 3-5 years Cool Stripe Toothpaste
| Deep Clean With Baking Soda Toothpaste Elixir Cool
| Detox Toothpaste Elixir Gum Booster Toothpaste
| Elixir White Restore Toothpaste Gum Invigorate Detox
| Toothpaste Gum Invigorate Toothpaste Max
| Fresh Cooling Crystals Toothpaste Max White & Protect
| Whitening Toothpaste Max White Charcoal Whitening
| Toothpaste Max White Crystals Whitening Toothpaste
| Max White Expert Anti-Stain Whitening Toothpaste Max
| White Expert Complete Whitening Toothpaste Max White
| Expert Original Whitening Toothpaste Max White Expert
| Shine Glossy Mint Whitening Toothpaste Max White
| Extra Care Enamel Protect Whitening Toothpaste Max
| White Extra Care Sensitive Protect Whitening Toothpaste
| Max White Luminous Whitening Toothpaste Max White One
| Whitening Toothpaste Max White Optic Whitening
| Toothpaste Max White Sparkle Diamonds Whitening
| Toothpaste Max White Ultimate Catalyst Whitening
| Toothpaste Max White Ultimate Renewal Whitening
| Toothpaste Max White Ultra Active Foam Toothpaste
| Max White Ultra Freshness Pearls Toothpaste Maximum
| Cavity Protection 3+ Kids' Toothpaste Maximum Cavity
| Protection Fresh Mint Toothpaste Maximum Cavity
| Protection Toothpaste Nature IQ Enamel Repair
| Toothpaste PerioGard Gum Protection + Sensitive
| Toothpaste PerioGard Gum Protection Toothpaste
| Sensitive Instant Relief Enamel Repair Sensitive
| Instant Relief Enamel Repair Toothpaste Sensitive
| Instant Relief Multiprotection Sensitive Instant
| Relief Repair & Prevent Sensitive Instant Relief
| Whitening Sensitive Sensifoam Multi Protection
| Toothpaste Sensitive With Sensifoam Toothpaste
| Total Active Fresh Toothpaste Total Advanced Clean
| Gel Toothpaste Total Advanced Deep Clean Toothpaste
| Total Advanced Enamel Health Toothpaste Total
| Advanced Gum Care Total Advanced Pure Breath
| Toothpaste Total Advanced Sensitive Care
| Total Original Toothpaste Total Plaque Protection
| Toothpaste Total Visible Proof Toothpaste
| Total Whitening Toothpaste Triple Action Original
| Mint Toothpaste
|
| I'm an adult male. My dentist has not informed me of any
| particular concerns. I wouldn't mind my teeth being a bit
| whiter. Which of these am I supposed to buy? Or am I supposed
| to buy a product from one of the other brands of the same
| manufacturer... Elmex, Meridol, several others, each of which
| has their own outrageously long lineups. Or look at a
| different manufacturer?
| antisthenes wrote:
| You're obviously supposed to conduct a double-blind
| longitudinal study over the course of many years, with at
| least 30 participants in each group, for every single sub-
| brand you listed.
|
| Also, make sure there's no conflict of interest at any
| point in the studies.
| dmoy wrote:
| > My dentist has not informed me of any particular concerns
|
| So my dentist did actually explain stuff to me, and
| generally you want something less abrasive.
|
| Brush more frequently (every meal), but not for long, and
| using a very soft brush, with the primary goal of raising
| ph above acidic levels, and increasing gum blood flow.
|
| CTx4, Sensodyne pronamel, something like that.
| addaon wrote:
| So if the main distinction I'm looking for is
| abrasiveness... does that mean that the key
| differentiator is completely undocumented to customers?
| throwaway821909 wrote:
| Professional cleaning at home! * by removing surface stains
|
| Restore tooth enamel! * contains flouride which promotes
| remineralisation
|
| Appear universally on toothpaste ads in the UK
| systemvoltage wrote:
| Toothpaste was a bad example, OP's original point is still
| good IMO. Sometimes analogies fail, that doesn't mean that
| the main point isn't valid anymore.
|
| There is a dizzying mix of GPU brands and offerings out
| there. Some have better cooling than others. It is a giant
| mixed bag just like the toothpaste example.
| stusmall wrote:
| It's made funnier by the fact that I've never had a dentist
| who's cared. I asked a couple and each time got the line
| that the physical act of brushing matters much more than
| the type of toothpaste. I vaguely remember one saying "as
| long as it has fluoride"
|
| I think every toothpaste ad says "4 out of 5 dentists
| recommend" their brand because 4 out of 5 dentists says
| "Yeah sure. Okay, use that one. It doesn't matter. Just
| brush and floss regularly and methodically"
| roughly wrote:
| One of my professors described Toothbrush buying as the
| absolute most pathological case for the Paradox of Choice:
| dozens of ostensibly differentiated products, all in
| basically the same price range, all basically affordable,
| with no real way as a consumer to discern their efficacy or
| quality. You'll use the product for the next 6 months to a
| year, and if you pick the wrong one, your breath will
| stink, your teeth will fall out, and you'll need expensive
| surgery.
| sph wrote:
| If your teeth fall out after 6 months of bad toothpaste,
| perhaps you should stop eating sugar and drinking battery
| acid :)
| sebazzz wrote:
| Customers also understand fan speed and cooling, which cards
| can compete on. Less noise, or more overclocking ability.
| Different additional software which may or may not have any
| value for you.
| UberFly wrote:
| ONE source for all Nvidia GPUs is preferable? No thanks.
| hellotomyrars wrote:
| Hell, if only because the reference cards use those shitty
| tiny loud blower fans, at least the ones in my price range.
|
| I DGAF about the leds and bullshit but I want quiet fans.
| lostmsu wrote:
| That would work if their reference 3090s were not notoriously
| hitting 110C on the memory junction with any significant memory
| load, spinning fans to the volume of Concorde flying cruise
| speed. Other manufacturers actually had that problem covered.
| moffkalast wrote:
| I do not understand how Nvidia thinks putting ONE tiny fan on
| something that draws 200 watts is a sane decision. Back in
| the day they were even using centrifugal fans just to add a
| few extra decibels.
| lostmsu wrote:
| I wish they were that good! The card is actually 350W. I
| run mine with power limit 250W. Fortunately the slowdown of
| minGPT training is only ~3% with this setup.
| xxs wrote:
| >Fortunately the slowdown of minGPT training is only ~3%
| with this setup.
|
| The cards are run at a very unfavorable part of
| Freq/Voltage curve. Increasing freq. (performance)
| effectively scales the power in a cubic manner.
| matthewfcarlson wrote:
| I do feel like Nvidia is the only one with the right mix of
| market muscle, knowhow, and patents/licenses to pull of an ARM
| based competitor to Apple's products. AMD is doing some great
| things but can you imagine an M1 level product that sips power
| like a champ but has the graphical muscle of a proper 3070? The
| M1 Ultra is decent, but just doesn't compare to a proper
| dedicated GPU (on blender benchmark, the desktop M1 ultra seems
| to perform slightly below a laptop 3050).
| moffkalast wrote:
| With all that, and they still can't make a cooling setup for
| their cards worth a damn.
|
| I'm still waiting for a Noctua GPU partnership.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| nvidia has already released the best arm chips they could
| (tegra) years ago. They all were so crappy they were part of
| the reason I never believed apple would go arm.
| orliesaurus wrote:
| I wonder if this has anything to do with Intel ARC release, what
| if EVGA and Intel have a secret upcoming deal?!
| 7speter wrote:
| The ceo is on record pretty much saying AMD and Intel could go
| to hell too
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| They said at length they weren't doing GPUs from Intel or AMD.
| orliesaurus wrote:
| On their forums people don't seem so sure:
| https://forums.evga.com/Will-evga-be-a-card-partner-for-
| new-...
| ribosometronome wrote:
| Having watched most of the GamersNexus video, my takeaways were:
|
| - Will maintain some stock for RMAs
|
| - Made pre-production boards for 4xxx, will not manufacture
|
| - 3080 and above are not profitable for EVGA
|
| - NVIDIA is not transparent about pricing with board
| manufacturers, they find out MRSP same time we do
|
| - NVIDIA limits MSRP heavily on cards so they can't do things to
| sell more profitable higher end cards
|
| - It sounds like (this is my takeaway from GN's description, not
| their words) EVGA's CEO is tired of dealing with NVIDIA, wants to
| refocus on family, and there isn't a clear person to replace him
| and hesitant to sell to people who would mistreat employees/cut
| corners/damage brand.
|
| - Will continue selling power supplies
|
| - No plan to work with AMD or Intel making boards, CEO sounded
| dismissive toward it
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| If their CEO wants to refocus on their family, there's a super
| easy way to do that: you step down, either to a position that
| lets you spend more time with your family, or by just leaving
| the company.
|
| A CEO doesn't run the company, the board does. If the CEO wants
| to spend more time with their family, that's their call to
| make, but then the board _will_ replace you because you are no
| longer the best person for the job.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| It's privately owned and don't seem to have a board of
| directors, and the owner(s) can do whatever they want.
| 0x457 wrote:
| It's a privately owned Stock Corporation registered in
| California. California requires at least 3 directors unless
| there are less than 3 shareholders.
| [deleted]
| thayne wrote:
| From what I understand, MSRP is the _suggested_ retail price.
| Is EVGA contractually obligated to list at that price? And if
| so, how does that not violate antitrust laws?
| henryfjordan wrote:
| In the US, antitrust doctrine is largely based around
| preventing dominant market players from causing direct harm
| to the consumer and does not care much about health of the
| markets. It is hard to argue that NVIDIA saying "use this
| price that you think is too low" to EVGA would constitute an
| antitrust violation when that means lower prices for
| consumers.
| thayne wrote:
| Well, EVGA isn't just reselling Nvidia's product. They are
| building a new product (a vidio card) that uses Nvidia's
| product (the GPU itself). So by setting a price ceiling,
| they prevent card makers for making higher end cards with
| more features and/or higher quality. And I would argue that
| preventing the existence of a product that consumers might
| want hurts some consumers at least.
| indymike wrote:
| EVGA is not obligated to allow the retailer to sell using
| EVGA's trademark, or give access to reseller pricing if the
| retailer does not follow their terms and conditions on
| advertised price. The retailer actually _can_ sell at lower
| prices, so long as it is not advertised. This is why you see
| weird "log in to see price" online or "call for pricing" in
| print.
| secabeen wrote:
| While trademarks and pricing is an element, the main lever
| the manufacturer has is mainly just future chip supplies.
| If you get one thousand 3080 chips from NVIDIA and make
| them into video cards that you sell well above the price
| NVIDIA wants, they will simply just not renew your contract
| when it expires. No chips, no cards.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >It sounds like (this is my takeaway from GN's description, not
| their words) EVGA's CEO is tired of dealing with NVIDIA, wants
| to refocus on family, and there isn't a clear person to replace
| him and hesitant to sell to people who would mistreat
| employees/cut corners/damage brand.
|
| So they're voluntarily choosing to go out of business..?
|
| How does that work?
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| They're not publicly traded. That's how. They can do whatever
| they want within the letter of the law and aren't beholden to
| shareholders.
| ribosometronome wrote:
| From other comments, ditching 78% of their revenue but not
| going out of business. They still make power supplies. I
| think the CEO sees it as exiting a unpredictable market where
| they have little control over what they sell.
| [deleted]
| 7speter wrote:
| They also make top of the line priced motherboards,
| seemingly for enthusiasts.
| AlexandrB wrote:
| > - NVIDIA limits MSRP heavily on cards so they can't do things
| to sell more profitable higher end cards
|
| It's so weird to put a ceiling on card prices. Maybe this was a
| measure due to the crypto-induced GPU demand?
| foolfoolz wrote:
| not weird at all. this is a huge reason for the rpi's success
|
| and look at the last 2 years of nvidia gpus. you mentally
| associate $1,000+ with any gpu. even 5+ year old models. they
| want to put an end to that, bad for the brand
| acomjean wrote:
| its happening in cars right now. The Manufacturers aren't too
| happy that some dealerships gouge the customers. Its bad for
| the brand, though profitable short-term
| sn0wf1re wrote:
| Car dealerships don't do significant product modifications
| like GPU integrators. Unless you consider an undercoat or
| bedliner to be significant modifications.
| izacus wrote:
| Most GPU integrators just resell reference boards with
| RGB leds.
| mbreese wrote:
| Because they can't add anything else... (but I don't know
| what else they'd want to add).
| saltminer wrote:
| These days, AIBs really don't do all that much. In the
| past you had "enthusiast" cards with more RAM, dual GPUs
| on a single card, etc. but Nvidia cracked down hard on
| that stuff with (IIRC) the 10-series, which is also when
| they introduced the FE line.
|
| Now, the AIBs differentiate themselves mostly on coolers,
| aesthetics (cooler design, RGB, PCB colors, etc.), and
| power delivery (though the latter is much less common).
| qzw wrote:
| I'm sure NVIDIA is a serious pain in the ass to deal with
| (Linus_middle_finger.gif), but perhaps one of the unspoken
| reasons is that, as suggested by the rumor mill, there's a
| serious oversupply problem with next gen GPUs. NVIDIA and AMD
| placed orders with the foundries based on the ridiculous demand
| levels they were seeing in the last couple of years, but now
| demand has cooled off from both crypto (Ethereum merge) and
| gamers (waiting for new gen), so there's still plenty of
| current gen stock sitting around. Supposedly they tried to
| cancel some of the volume with the foundries, but were not
| allowed to. So maybe EVGA is seeing the writing on the wall and
| getting out ahead of the game. I'm sure putting up with all of
| NVIDIA's crap is barely worth it even when making a decent
| profit. But it's definitely not worth it to EVGA if their cards
| will just to end up languishing in the bargain bin along with
| everyone else's.
| pas wrote:
| can't they "easily" retool for "AI cards"?
| wmf wrote:
| I don't think AIBs like EVGA are allowed to make server
| cards and the demand for those is not unlimited.
| 0x457 wrote:
| It's not like they are not allowed, it's that no one will
| sell them actual chips to make them.
| wmf wrote:
| There are server cards that use GA102, GA104, etc. which
| EVGA has a glut of.
| mattigames wrote:
| Who would have imagined that adjusting your production rates
| over the most volatile and unstable asset AKA Cryptocoins
| would be a bad idea.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| And that's the second time they've done this, after 2018
| crypto crash.
| marricks wrote:
| That lines up with the impression I got. They lose money
| CURRENTLY on the high end cards, it sure wasn't going to get
| any better.
|
| Might as well get out while the getting is good.
| wmf wrote:
| Yeah, this is a case where money is inevitably going to be
| lost and everyone is saying "not it". It's not clear that
| there's any "fair" way to allocate the losses that will
| result from massive GPU oversupply.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Summary strongly appreciated. Thank you very much.
| VikingCoder wrote:
| In case the CEO is reading this -
|
| Turn it into a employee-owned company!
| thfuran wrote:
| I don't think that's actually easy to do without causing all
| current employees to incur significant taxes.
| pessimizer wrote:
| It's also difficult to win the lottery without incurring
| significant taxes.
| babypuncher wrote:
| The difference is that lottery winnings are liquid, you
| can just pay your tax burden out of the winnings.
| Arainach wrote:
| Not sure why I'm unable to respond to iepathos' reply to
| this comment, but:
|
| >The employees would not be taxed just for receiving the
| stock/ownership, only once they sold it and made it
| liquid.
|
| This is incorrect; the initial grant is income and
| anything after that is capital gains. This is also how
| RSUs work.
| macintux wrote:
| If you click/tap on the relative timestamp next to the
| comment, you'll be taken to a dedicated page where you
| can reply. Same way I replied to yours.
| steveklabnik wrote:
| Hacker news does not display the reply button for a bit
| after someone replies to you as a means of trying to
| blunt quick back-and-forth discussion.
|
| My sibling commentor has the workaround.
| iepathos wrote:
| Similarly, taxes are applied to capital gains when stock
| is sold, not when it is received or bought. The employees
| would not be taxed just for receiving the
| stock/ownership, only once they sold it and made it
| liquid.
| [deleted]
| double_nan wrote:
| Taxes are due at vesting.
| davidlumley wrote:
| To be clear: taxes are due when you _receive_ the shares.
| For options, that 's when you execute/purchase your
| options _not_ when they vest.
|
| edit: (in the US at least)
| girvo wrote:
| No, you can absolutely be taxed just for receiving the
| stock/ownership.
| ideamotor wrote:
| If it's not worth much and it's spread across many
| employees, we aren't talking about much.
| [deleted]
| googlryas wrote:
| You're taxed for the value of the stock when you receive
| it, and you are taxed on capital gains when you sell it,
| if you're selling it for more than you received it.
| ska wrote:
| In that case by definition you have the cash to pay the
| taxes.
| Tuna-Fish wrote:
| No, you don't. The issue is liquidity. If I gift you
| something that is of substantial value, but cannot be
| easily sold or used as a security, it can really fuck you
| over. There are jurisdictions that allow deferring the
| tax liability in such cases, but the USA doesn't do that.
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| Lottery winnings are liquid.
| Tuna-Fish wrote:
| Ah sorry, I misunderstood the post I was replying to. I
| was actually agreeing to it: Lottery winnings are
| different from major gifts of illiquid assets, because
| you can always just pay the taxes from the winnings. In
| any case, you become liable for the tax immediately after
| receiving the gift/winning. If you cannot do that without
| selling the asset, and the asset is impossible to sell in
| the short term, and you cannot take a loan against the
| asset, your best option can be to refuse the gift.
|
| And yes, this is a little bit insane.
| ska wrote:
| I should have been clearer, but we were pointing out the
| same difference.
| [deleted]
| kennend3 wrote:
| Depends on your tax laws. Here (Canada) lottery winnings
| are tax-free ;)
|
| https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-
| agency/services/tax/individ...
| Havoc wrote:
| Throw enough lawyers and structuring at it and you can
| definitely make it work. Not make the tax go away
| permanently...but phase it over time & ensure they get
| dividends along with it to cover bill etc.
| rch wrote:
| Exactly. I've had enough theoretical conversations about
| this to know there are organizations who would be happy
| to help assess any particular situation.
|
| Different industry, but it might be worth looking into
| how New Belgium went employee owned, with apparently
| equitable results:
|
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/christophermarquis/2020/05/0
| 1/e...
| VikingCoder wrote:
| I know nothing...
|
| ...but give the current employees voting rights without
| equity, proportional to their seniority... (Or just 1 vote
| each.)
|
| And then start rolling out equity, maybe, depending.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| I've heard of companies doing something similar, but
| instead it's a special class of stock (and the original one
| gets phased out through buybacks etc). This new class
| basically has a one time dividend that covers a chunk of
| taxes.
|
| Not sure in EVGAs case what laws govern their business and
| where employees are and what existing structure is... but
| where there's a will, there's a lawyer to make a way.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Taxes? You mean the thing poor people pay? /s
| spoils19 wrote:
| All companies are employee owned. Vote with your feet.
| mceachen wrote:
| > All companies are employee owned
|
| False. Only a few are:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_employee-
| owned_compani...
| notafraudster wrote:
| The person you're responding to is not speaking
| literally; they're using what's called a metaphor to make
| a point that employees of any company exert walking
| power. The point may or may not be useful, but you have
| to finish reading the post before trying to reply with a
| gotcha correction.
| gnarbarian wrote:
| OK, but they will still need a CEO.
| black_puppydog wrote:
| Yes but the CEO's role would be very different.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| if anyone needs any inspiration, in Germany the company's
| employee labor union has a board seat or two, by law (for
| share based companies above a certain size).
|
| I just never see anything remotely close to that in the
| US discussions, by the people most interested in employee
| activism or union formation. I get the impression people
| don't even know its something to they could be putting
| energy towards.
|
| first English google result I could find on the concept
|
| https://www.worker-participation.eu/National-Industrial-
| Rela...
| brnaftr361 wrote:
| At every opportunity I drop Mondragon corporation. They
| have a long and impressive history, BBC had a documentary
| on it, which despite being filmed in the '80s, and
| worthless to them is being withdrawn from Youtube due to
| IP. Very interesting if you can find it, but most of
| anything I've seen written about the topic is.
|
| Actually:
|
| The Mondragon Experiment:
|
| https://vimeo.com/161252994
| bhhaskin wrote:
| How so?
| makeworld wrote:
| Not if they form a co-op!
| halotrope wrote:
| Thank you. One addition:
|
| - Video cards are 78% of revenue for EVGA.
| liquidise wrote:
| I think this was 78% of gross revenue. As OP stated, the GN
| video makes it clear that the margin on this was, in many
| cases, negative.
| halotrope wrote:
| Thank you for the clarification!
| selimnairb wrote:
| Is pulling out of video cards now related to Etherium
| switching to POS? As in, downward pricing pressure for GPUs
| means they'll never see positive margins in the foreseeable
| future? That combined with NVIDIA being hard to deal with
| makes it not worth it?
| IncRnd wrote:
| Not in the slightest. Even if there were no crypto
| mining, videos cards would all still get purchased.
| mbreese wrote:
| Maybe... depends on how many they make. If there is an
| oversupply, margins will still suffer.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| Prices are in free fall and cards sit. 3090 ti is down to
| $1000 new. At the height of mining, a 3090 went for
| $3400.
| [deleted]
| jacooper wrote:
| But PSUs make 300% more profit.
| biggc wrote:
| Maybe so, but I wonder how much of their PSU sales come
| from the excellent reputation of their GPUs.
| kemotep wrote:
| When I bought my power supply several years ago, I went
| with the highest rated one from johnnyguru at the time
| which was an EVGA one. It is only one anecdote but at the
| time at least, the G3 EVGA power supply came highly
| recommended from johnnyguru with comprehensive tests
| completed.
| SSLy wrote:
| G2 was the only ever recommended, G3 had issues with some
| protection circuits.
| kemotep wrote:
| I do not remember that and this is the first I have heard
| of that issue. My G3 has had zero issues in 5 years of
| operation. Do you happen to have a link to that?
|
| Seeing as johnnyguru is not available as far as I can
| tell this is the only proof I have: https://www.reddit.co
| m/r/buildapc/comments/5kl4v0/jonny_guru...
| mastazi wrote:
| The Internet Archive is your friend: https://web.archive.
| org/web/20200702165629/http://www.jonnyg...
|
| It had a Total score of 9.8 out of 10
| magicalhippo wrote:
| IIRC the EVGA G3 failed the ATX requirement of holding
| voltage after mains goes down, dropping way too quickly.
| It was the only one of several that they tested in a
| group review. Not sure how much storage vendors relies on
| those milliseconds, but I decided to get something else.
| kemotep wrote:
| I wish the site was still up because I swear the EVGA
| SuperNova G3 was the highest rated power supply
| johnnyguru ever reviewed. Their review from my memory
| never covered that. I may have that all wrong seems
| multiple people remember the issue.
| fooey wrote:
| What a bummer. My plan for this fall was to go all in on a new
| high-end machine with all EVGA parts once the 4090 and 13900 are
| available
|
| Now I'll have to spend a ton of time trying to figure out what
| other brands to deal with instead. Makes me think I'll be better
| off with a pre-built instead of buying components this cycle
| ask_b123 wrote:
| I'm in the same situation; I had withheld from purchasing a GPU
| during the pandemic and had decided to buy an EVGA 4000 GPU
| when they came out, because I've only heard good things from
| them.
|
| Was going to be my 1st cycle in which I'd build it too.
| babypuncher wrote:
| You will still be able to buy EVGA motherboards and PSUs, they
| aren't quitting the PC component space altogether.
|
| I think ASUS is probably the next best option if you still want
| to stick with Nvidia.
| mperham wrote:
| Anyone want to provide a little context?
| terafo wrote:
| Does it have anything to do with huge stockpiles of Ampere GPUs
| that were stuck with AIBs after prices crash and right before
| Lovelace launch?
| Drew_ wrote:
| Likely. According to GamersNexus, EVGA is currently losing
| hundreds of dollars on high end 3000 series GPUs right now.
| babypuncher wrote:
| Yes. Exactly the same thing actually happened in 2018 with the
| launch of Ampere, right after the previous crypto bubble
| collapse.
|
| I guess EVGA saw that Nvidia was making no effort to change how
| they handle this situation and decided to quit rather than deal
| with it again.
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| The title is slightly wrong. The actual announcement says EVGA
| will not produce _any_ next-gen video cards, not just Nvidia's.
| Implying they won't produce AMD or Intel ones either.
| rrss wrote:
| has EVGA ever sold AMD or Intel GPUs?
|
| AFAIK they haven't.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| Yeah, I'm fairly certain they were 100% NVidia.
| TT-392 wrote:
| I am watching the GN video right now. And, while talking to
| him, they mentioned to him that they aren't planning on
| producing intel or amd cards
| [deleted]
| chiph wrote:
| Seems extreme, but if you aren't making a profit, or enough
| profit to fund future operations, and there isn't any sign of
| that changing in the future - then yes you should close that part
| of the business.
|
| Which is certainly rough on the employees. But the perplexing
| part of the announcement is that they aren't going to be entering
| other segments of the PC industry. Perhaps margins on
| motherboards aren't healthy enough? High-end designer cases could
| make money but I suspect the volume isn't there.
| thfuran wrote:
| Don't they already make motherboards?
| aprdm wrote:
| What is evga? Seems like a forum ?
| barkingcat wrote:
| favorited wrote:
| A well-known graphics card manufacturer since the late 90s,
| with a strong presence in the US market.
| aprdm wrote:
| So they manufacture gpus ?
| favorited wrote:
| tl;dr - they turn Nvidia's product (the GPU, memory
| configuration, and chip design) into the thing that
| consumers buy (the actual graphics card you slot into your
| PC).
|
| They're what's called an AIB (stands for Add In Board).
| They buy the actual GPU chips from Nvidia (or AMD, for
| other companies) and manufacture their own graphics cards.
|
| For some cards, an AIB might design their own PCB, or they
| might license the "reference" design from Nvidia. They'll
| also engineer their own cooling solution.
|
| Often, an AIB will offer several different variants based
| on the same GPU. For example, EVGA offers a few different
| models of Nvidia's 3080 GPU - mainly their XC3 and FTW3
| models. The FTW version is a little more expensive, but has
| a larger heatsink, better power delivery, etc. The XC
| version will probably run hotter and louder, but can fit in
| smaller cases. They're both "RTX 3080"s, but EVGA has built
| 2 distinct products (actually way more than 2, in real
| life) from the same Nvidia GPU.
| 015a wrote:
| This is, by far, the most confusing thing to happen in the
| industry in quite a while.
|
| Per the video: Nvidia represents 80% of EVGA's revenue. EVGA
| isn't planning to expand their product lines. They're
| "financially sound", staying in business, and not planning to
| sell the company. EVGA's view is that Nvidia has been
| disrespectful as a board partner, making it "difficult if not
| impossible" to be profitable.
|
| This is just incomprehensible through any lens except that most
| of EVGA's statements are lies or half-lies and they're not
| actually financially sound.
|
| They're a company that has tried, several times, to expand into
| other market segments; motherboard & power supplies being the two
| biggest ones. These never took off quite like graphics cards, but
| a big reason feels like they never invested enough into those
| areas.
|
| Really sounds like, hard financial straits, not enough R&D, and
| an aging CEO who just wants to retire. I wonder if they ever
| reached out to a company like Corsair as an acquisition?
| metadaemon wrote:
| Checking out EVGA's Glassdoor page, looks like employee
| satisfaction is abysmal with little approval (23%) for the CEO.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Is the percentage of revenue from a given source really a
| relevant metric? Hypothetically if 80% of their revenue comes
| from selling GPUs, but the GPUs aren't profitable, then they
| are just doing free work for NVIDIA.
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| >This is just incomprehensible through any lens
|
| What about the lens of "Nvidia only allows us to sell at a 1%
| margin"? Revenue means nothing if you're not making profit.
| lvl102 wrote:
| Did it ever make sense to have partner cards? I never understood
| the business model. You effectively let go of substantial control
| over product. Understand EVGA had good/great reputation but this
| might be another indication that Nvidia is preparing for the
| coming down swing as crypto mining comes to a halt. That said,
| Nvidia still has a monopoly.
| dtx1 wrote:
| Yes, depending on the class of GPU
|
| * at the lower end, partner cards can support special form
| factors and lower power variations.
|
| * at the midrange, partner cards can, like motherboards do
| aswell, design better power delivery and cooling solutions to
| get more out of a specific chip than reference designs.
|
| * at the high end it's all about different cooling solutions
| and better power delivery to squeak every last inch of
| performance out of these chips.
|
| Adding to that, don't underestimate how much industry knowledge
| is there at the partners. They often know better how to make a
| board for a GPU than Nvidia and AMD themselves. There are lots
| of optimizations that require years of knowledge and experience
| to design.
| verall wrote:
| Midrange cards are low margin and are redesigned to be
| cheaper than the reference, not to have better power
| delivery. It's more like outsourcing because a Taiwanese OEM
| is well positioned to have an army of labor design and
| manufacture boards for cheaper than Nvidia or AMD can.
|
| > They often know better how to make a board for a GPU than
| Nvidia and AMD themselves.
|
| Maybe a long time ago, but not for recent generations. AFAICT
| almost all 3rd party AMD cards sold are reference design.
| soylentcola wrote:
| Damn. When I saw the headline and saw it was a Youtube link, I
| could think of only one person I'd expect to explain this
| properly. Was not disappointed (at least in that regard).
| renewiltord wrote:
| I thought they were principally a GPU company and Chinese. Wrong
| for 2/2. They're Californian and apparently not going to be a GPU
| company at all. What a fascinating discovery!
| favorited wrote:
| I believe their founder was born in China, but the company was
| definitely established in California.
| hedora wrote:
| I'm surprised they're not pivoting to AMD cards. I'd have guessed
| they were a top tier AMD card manufacturer, based on their brand,
| and the fact that I have some of their old NVIDIA cards laying
| around.
| protomyth wrote:
| Intel would seem to be the bigger opportunity since Intel is
| trying to get established and has a lot of money.
| steele wrote:
| EVGA will sell you the new power supply and AIO cooler you'll
| definitely need for the 4090 to reach it's advertised clock
| speeds.
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| This is crazy, but I don't blame them. I've heard that Nvidia
| really takes advantage of its partners.
| bearjaws wrote:
| Still rocking my EVGA 1080ti Hybrid SC2 from 4 years ago and its
| rock solid, not a single issue.
|
| Even mined with it during the winter and obviously lots of gaming
| over covid...
|
| Sad I won't be able to get a 4080 hybrid (so much quieter with
| the AIO).
| BuckRogers wrote:
| This is a big blow for Nvidia. I currently own a Founders Edition
| card, but all of my other NV cards were Evga. For me, I'd
| exclusively buy Evga cards, the only reason I don't is because
| 2-slot cards are hard to come by from 3rd party vendors. Evga is
| the first NV brand I go to. It was my first card after I finally
| moved from 3dfx. A Geforce 2 MX. I used the step-up program many
| times over the years. They honored their RMAs, with advance RMA.
|
| If I'm NV, I'd give Evga privileged status over other vendors
| (more profits). They've done a lot for Nvidia.
|
| The other brand I could see taking their place is Corsair, but no
| one is going to take a bad deal with Nvidia. This may be the
| beginning of the end of 3rd party cards. Just buy them all
| direct, like CPUs.
| [deleted]
| thayne wrote:
| There's a picture of Linus Torvalds thay seems appropriate here.
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