[HN Gopher] Philosophy of Mathematics - A Reading List (2020)
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       Philosophy of Mathematics - A Reading List (2020)
        
       Author : keiferski
       Score  : 89 points
       Date   : 2022-09-20 20:00 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.logicmatters.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.logicmatters.net)
        
       | steve_john wrote:
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | Why just quote Wikipedia?
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | That's pretty much all their comments. Direct quotes from
           | something like Wikipedia, the article, or a paraphrased
           | version of a statement from the article.
        
       | mberning wrote:
       | It's kind of disappointing that history, philosophy, and
       | mathematics are not taught together. When you try to piece these
       | things together yourself you start to realize how much context
       | you miss out on when studying them in isolation.
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | It's not unusual for math books to include historical notes.
         | For example, _Elements de mathematique_ by N.Bourbaki includes
         | an entire companion volume, _Elements d 'histoire des
         | mathematiques_.
        
           | ouid wrote:
           | bourbaki is unusual among math textbooks, to say the least.
        
       | openfuture wrote:
       | The Dialogical Roots of Deduction[0] is an excellent book that I
       | was recommended by my math professor after making a comment about
       | how mathematics are a form of persuasion, not a religious truth.
       | It was refreshing to read something I could agree with so easily.
       | That being said, I think a lot of philosophy of mathematics is
       | not as insightful unless you also study mathematics. It is easy
       | to misunderstand or try to apply theorems incorrectly.
       | 
       | 0: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/dialogical-roots-of-
       | ded...
        
       | throwaway81523 wrote:
       | The stuff on that list all seems rather historical. I have no
       | clue as to what is going on in the field in the current century,
       | and the list doesn't seem to help much. This was better:
       | https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/avigad/Papers/PhilMath.pdf
       | 
       | Philosophy as an MO search keyword also finds interesting posts:
       | https://mathoverflow.net/search?q=philosophy
        
         | steppi wrote:
         | Working through all of Peter Smith's suggested books from the
         | original post should give one a solid understanding of much of
         | what's been going on in field up until fairly recently. Every
         | recommended book in Smith's list from the original post up to
         | and including Shapiro's _The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy of
         | Mathematics and Logic_ also appears in Avigad's suggested
         | readings from your link, many under the section on contemporary
         | developments. Smith's list also contains more recent works that
         | do not appear in Avigad's list.
        
         | zmgsabst wrote:
         | I think the past 100 years are:
         | 
         | "Algebra and geometry are the same?... Oh, our whole field is
         | blind people describing elephants."
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant
        
       | adamnemecek wrote:
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | There goes my evening...
        
         | morelisp wrote:
         | Smells like [?] to me.
        
           | adamnemecek wrote:
           | Which part?
        
             | morelisp wrote:
             | The part where you take a basic mathematical concept and
             | claim it solves all "meaning".
        
               | adamnemecek wrote:
               | It's not a basic concept. If you think it is you legit
               | don't understand it.
        
         | openfuture wrote:
         | Consider matrix bridge for those of us who will never use
         | discord?
        
       | Koshkin wrote:
       | This is great, this shows that philosophy of mathematics has a
       | long history and continues to be an active area of analytical
       | thought. (Judging by recent discussions, I believe that much of
       | the HN community desperately needs some education in this area.)
        
       | joe_the_user wrote:
       | _Modern philosophy of mathematics is still in part shaped by
       | debates starting well over a century ago, springing from the work
       | of Frege and Russell, from Hilbert's alternative response to the
       | "crisis in foundations", and from the impact of Godel's work on
       | the logicist and Hibertian programmes._
       | 
       | I wonder what the author thinks of Van Plato, The Great Formal
       | Machinery Works and other works on the history of the
       | foundational mathematics.
       | 
       | One of the things that stands out in the book is that when
       | notions of mathematical logic and foundations of arithmetic were
       | being formulated by Frege and Grassman in the 19th century,
       | neither the notation nor the concept of proof as a mechanical
       | process existed and the process of creating theories about proof
       | processes also involved laying down the concept of proof and
       | creating tractable notations for it (Frege's original notation
       | quickly becomes incomprehensible as expressions grow, for
       | example). Principia Mathematica is notable for creating modern
       | notation despite it's failure to be a complete foundation of
       | mathematics.
        
       | valyagolev wrote:
       | Synthetic Philosophy of Contemporary Mathematics by Fernando
       | Zalamea
       | 
       | for something very lively, contemporary and more continental in
       | spirit
        
       | fan_of_yoinked wrote:
       | This is great - I don't know if a full survey is in the cards for
       | me, but The Search for Certainty grabbed my eye.
       | 
       | This reminds me of this guide
       | https://www.susanrigetti.com/physics for physics, and she has one
       | for self teaching math and philosophy as well.
       | 
       | It makes me curious to see a similar reading list put together
       | for computer science - the history and theory of computing, or
       | the kinds of things you might generally study in a Comp Sci
       | program (as opposed to practical skills/how to types of reading)
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | Meh. No mention of Pythagoras or any Platonism.
       | 
       | Max Tegmark, Karl Popper and Roger Penrose are the three best
       | known for promoting the Pythagorean-Platonic idea that
       | mathematics precedes matter. Because that seriously freaks some
       | people out--they can't even deal with the idea. But, fairly
       | basic, that triangles are transcendent and would exist in any
       | civilization, in any galaxy? Matter has never produced a perfect
       | sphere, but spheres are nevertheless truly real--- right?
        
         | silent_cal wrote:
         | Transcendent triangles... hm...
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | > Matter has never produced a perfect sphere, but spheres are
         | nevertheless truly real--- right?
         | 
         | But doesn't Tegmark say matter _is_ mathematics? Or is that
         | your point?
        
           | chestervonwinch wrote:
           | parent is saying mathematics is the abstract base class.
           | they're in the source, but you never see instances of them at
           | runtime.
        
         | sbdaman wrote:
         | Edit: nevermind, this was overly critical.
        
           | goatlover wrote:
           | Platonism is a major school of thought in the philosophy of
           | mathematics.
        
             | virissimo wrote:
             | Not only that, but most philosophers who specialize in the
             | philosophy of mathematics are Platonists: https://philpaper
             | s.org/surveys/results.pl?affil=Target+facul.... IME, this
             | is also true of working mathematicians, but much less true
             | of physicists.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | EpiMath wrote:
         | good comment. This seems to come up more in number theory than
         | in foundations/philosophy of mathematics, but I agree is has an
         | important place. Not just triangles, but natural numbers having
         | a fundamental place in reality ( e.g. integral numbers of
         | dimensions, degrees of equations at the foundations of physics,
         | etc., etc. Daniel Shanks has a list of about 60 of these
         | "arguments" for Pythagorean interpretation of numbers )
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Triangles' concept yes, in any of them, as long as you have two
         | dimensions.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | You can have triangles in higher dimensions, embedded in
           | manifolds or subspaces.
           | 
           | You can have super pathological triangles in 1 and 0
           | dimensions. Those aren't terribly interesting though.
        
         | steppi wrote:
         | There's an entire chapter devoted to Plato in Stewart Shapiro's
         | _Thinking About Mathematics_ , the first book the author
         | recommends. I think it's pretty reasonable to recommend people
         | start with an accessible contemporary survey rather than diving
         | directly into Plato's dialogues or any other particular primary
         | source. As far as I'm aware, Pythagoras left no written works
         | and would thus be unlikely to appear on a reading list.
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | Indeed! Abstractions deal with commonalities, and those do
         | exist. ("There _exists_ something in common between the three
         | horses and the three apples you want to treat the horses with.
         | ")
        
           | Barrin92 wrote:
           | the _notion of commonality_ exists in the head of the
           | observer because it 's a useful fiction. (even 'the horse'
           | itself is). But that is a subjective form of existence, what
           | Jakob von Uexkull called one's _" Umwelt"_ (the world as it
           | presents itself to you). There's no reason to believe it
           | precedes matter, or that triangles exist in a world without
           | anyone to conceive of them.
        
           | colechristensen wrote:
           | So much of it comes down to what exactly you mean by _exist_.
           | Which ultimately ends up being a boring disagreement. People
           | can have bigger or smaller definitions of what it means and
           | then have passionate disagreements with each other about what
           | fits inside which are ultimately about nothing but how big a
           | person prefers their definition.
        
             | Koshkin wrote:
             | Sure, there are many ways in which something may not exist;
             | but the _existence_ usually demonstrates itself in a pretty
             | straightforward way, like with the horse who bites you if
             | you show her that you have no more apples left.
        
               | colechristensen wrote:
               | Then you're painting yourself as one who has a certain
               | definition of _exist_ and can 't imagine other
               | definitions who would participate in such discussions
               | unwittingly about differences in definition rather than
               | the subject matter.
        
               | Koshkin wrote:
               | But it is _existence_ that is _the_ subject matter.
        
           | jonnybgood wrote:
           | As another comment said. What do you mean by exist? It
           | requires a little more rigour here. Using your example: What
           | does it mean for three horses and three apples to exist?
           | 
           | The better question: What does it mean for three (of
           | anything) to exist? Why not one thing, one thing, one thing?
           | 
           | The definition of existence you appear to be using is the
           | physical proximity of those objects. But even that can get
           | quite hairy. If there is two apples within inches of each
           | other and another apple 100 feet away, are there three apples
           | or two? The answer to this question depends on what you mean
           | by the existence of three apples.
        
       | sbdaman wrote:
       | Edit: replies are right!
        
         | mjh2539 wrote:
         | This would be considered an incredibly opaque
         | (and...particular?) introduction to the philosophy of
         | mathematics.
        
           | sbdaman wrote:
           | Fair enough.
        
         | silent_cal wrote:
         | I would venture to say that one of the most difficult
         | philosophy books of all time is not a good intro to anything,
         | lol
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | Not if you read it in German
        
           | [deleted]
        
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