[HN Gopher] Lose weight the slow and incredibly difficult way
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lose weight the slow and incredibly difficult way
        
       Author : gHeadphone
       Score  : 374 points
       Date   : 2022-09-22 09:04 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nautil.us)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nautil.us)
        
       | causi wrote:
       | I thoroughly enjoyed What If 2. I was, however, quite
       | disappointed he chose to mock the "balloon one atom thick"
       | question instead of answering it.
        
         | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
         | What was the question? My search-fu is failing there ...
        
           | causi wrote:
           | If you inflated a normal party balloon until its skin was one
           | atom thick, how large would the balloon have to be?
        
             | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
             | Thanks, it looks pretty reasonable, except for rearranging
             | the molecular bonds like atoms were shingles.
             | 
             | Assuming that was possible, it might be just a matter of
             | r-squared - supposing we started with a million-atom thick
             | skin, stretching the radius by one thousand should do it.
        
               | scythe wrote:
               | I assume that's why he didn't bother answering -- you
               | just take the volume of rubber, divide by the covalent
               | radius of carbon, and plug into A = 4 pi r^2.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | That's sad to hear, a big part of the fun was answering
         | "stupid/impossible" questions by assuming whatever makes them
         | impossible was actually possible.
        
       | janandonly wrote:
       | Clever to print one chapter in the Nautilus magazine.
       | 
       | It's basically free advertisement for his new book.
        
       | elil17 wrote:
       | I hate all these click-bait articles. Losing weight is simple,
       | it's just CICO. Calories In, Crust of the earth Out
       | 
       | Edit: I feel like a lot of people are arguing about something
       | that should be considered totally uncontroversial, basic physics.
       | Before you get all worked up over this, please look up Yuri
       | Gagarin. His weight loss journey absolutely proved that it is
       | possible to lose 100% of your body weight through simple orbital
       | mechanics and hundreds of people have followed in his footsteps
       | and experienced similar results. There is not room for debate,
       | this is a proven weight loss method and what the I'm suggesting
       | is essentially a very similar thing, but one that could help a
       | lot more people at once.
        
         | oDot wrote:
         | Someone can correct me here, but I believe CICO is false, due
         | to the the difference of efficiency in difference foods and the
         | different people consuming them, leading to significant
         | differences compared to CICO values.
        
           | parker_mountain wrote:
           | CICO is not false, and that is at most a +-10% variance. Food
           | absorption is definitely is a part of Calories In. If you're
           | worried that you're absorbing more or less calories versus
           | other people, adjust your Calories In.
           | 
           | More likely, you are miscounting calories - a common mistake
           | that people trying to lose weight make. For example, you'd be
           | surprised how many calories are in that packet of creamy
           | sauce that came with your fast food!
           | 
           | CICO is hard to stick to, because we are biologically wired
           | to enjoy high calorie diets. As a result, lots of people have
           | come up with justifications as to why it wasn't their fault
           | that they failed to adhere to it.
           | 
           | The reality is that weight loss is simple. It's very
           | difficult, especially if you're not willing to completely
           | overhaul your diet and relationship with food as an American.
        
             | francisofascii wrote:
             | > weight loss is simple. It's very difficult
             | 
             | Wait, which one is it? Simple or very difficult. Lol. I
             | think you meant the calorie math is simple.
        
               | Kranar wrote:
               | The opposite of simple is not difficult, it's complex.
               | The opposite of difficult is not simple, it's easy.
               | 
               | Simplicity has to do with the effort needed to understand
               | something, difficulty has to do with the effort needed to
               | perform an action. It's not unusual that something that
               | requires little effort to understand requires a great
               | deal of effort to execute.
        
             | TaupeRanger wrote:
             | Don't eat breakfast and don't gorge on snacks before
             | bedtime. That will be a huge benefit to most people that
             | struggle. Now...getting the willpower to stick with it is
             | another battle...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | parker_mountain wrote:
               | Personally, I drink these 100 cal nutrition drinks for
               | breakfast, or have a banana, and a sparkling water.
               | 
               | I've settled on
               | 
               | - Very lightweight breakfast (~100 cal)
               | 
               | - Light lunch (~700 cal)
               | 
               | - Heavy dinner (~1400 cal)
               | 
               | - Hard liquor only (tall single vodka/soda is my goto)
               | 
               | You'll notice that's over 2000~ a day. I also walk a lot,
               | use an exercise bike instead of the couch when watching
               | TV, and bicycle everywhere I can. On lazy days, I adjust
               | downwards.
               | 
               | One thing I've done that's helped a lot is eating a low
               | carb diet - I did keto, found it was incredible effective
               | in losing weight, but kinda brutal. Instead, a low carb
               | (non-ketosis) diet allows for some carbs but
               | significantly reduces "empty calories".
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | Well, if your going to help us all lose serious weight
               | via CICO, I think having a big snack here and there is
               | more than deserved.
               | 
               | After all, shooting any significant amount of the
               | planet's crust into space is definitely hungry work...
        
             | elil17 wrote:
             | I would say that overhauling your diet/relationship with
             | food is really not what it's about. It's about gathering
             | the necessary energy, resources, etc. to start putting
             | significant amounts of Earth's mass on an escape
             | trajectory.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | CICO is absolutely true, that's a fact. All you have to do is
           | look at the basic physics. If you reduce the mass of the
           | Earth by 50% (without decreasing your distance from Earths
           | center, a common trap people fall into when they're trying to
           | lose weight), you will lose 50% of your weight.
           | 
           | Fad diets and "body mass" are, excuse my harsh language, B.S.
           | Yes they can contribute to weight loss but they are going to
           | let you lose 10 or 15 pounds tops. Reducing the weight of the
           | Earth, on the other hand, can get you to lose essentially any
           | amount of weight.
        
             | sshine wrote:
             | What a mike drop comment.
             | 
             | I'm sorry, I went further down the thread, but it never got
             | better than this.
        
               | oDot wrote:
               | I take full credit for encouraging this
        
             | pydry wrote:
             | The trick to giving up cigarattes is not lighting them,
             | putting in your mouth and inhaling the smoke.
             | 
             | CICO certainly isnt _false_.
        
             | screye wrote:
             | I love how you're committed to the bit now.
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | It's the same bit as the article itself, right?
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | Yes LOL
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | I know you know, I was trying to see if the other
               | commenter does
        
               | screye wrote:
               | What is an article ? Is that the top comment you see
               | below the title when you open an HN post ?
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | I truly find this thread so enjoyable. Just at my desk,
               | smiling.
        
           | jahnu wrote:
           | There are different ways to measure calories. In a
           | calorimeter you can measure all the calories in some stuff.
           | In your body the amount of calories available to your body to
           | digest is some amount less depending on what that stuff is.
           | This can vary from foodstuff to foodstuff by (iirc) about
           | 1-15%
           | 
           | So one could be more accurate and say Available CaloriesICO I
           | guess
           | 
           | Unless you are an athlete or have some condition the simple
           | CICO rule is accurate enough to be useful. Eat less, move
           | more, and weight will be lost (or at least gains will slow).
           | 
           | None of this says anything about each person's own life
           | challenges that alter how difficult it is to do that.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Wouldnt the undigested calories just get added into
             | calories out?
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | Now that you mention it, I'm pretty sure modern
             | calorimeters won't catch the energy available via nuclear
             | reactions. What if our digestive tracts have evolved some
             | as-of-yet undiscovered mechanism to tap into that energy,
             | thereby invalidating all the "CICO" people's claims? Now
             | that would be a real pickle.
        
               | jahnu wrote:
               | Hark at Nibbler!
        
             | elil17 wrote:
             | I think that the energy density of rocket fuel is pretty
             | easy to measure. If you're trying to do a food powered
             | rocket it's true the energy measurements could get more
             | complicated.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | CICO is still true. While some foods can increase metabolism
           | (the other reply suggested up to 10% - sounds reasonable to
           | me), that is an increase in calories out. You can also
           | increase metabolism by exercising, or some drugs.
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | What exactly does food have to do with CICO?
             | 
             | You're certainly not going to get very far at ejecting the
             | earth's crust by burning food...
        
               | brippalcharrid wrote:
               | There's no reason why certain physically and
               | calorifically dense foods (eg. Christmas pudding)
               | couldn't necessarily be combined with oxidizers and
               | fitted into solid rocket motors, which could then be used
               | to launch significant chunks of the earth's crust out of
               | its gravity well.
        
               | selimthegrim wrote:
               | That's not why I nicknamed my chili recipe Red Mercury.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jasonpeacock wrote:
         | It's not. What you eat is just as important as how much you
         | eat.
         | 
         | The body is complex, self-regulating system with hystersis and
         | set points. You should go learn about "metabolic syndrome".
         | 
         | And everyone's body reacts differently, so there's no one
         | solution.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | >And everyone's body reacts differently, so there's no one
           | solution.
           | 
           | Absolutely disagree. F = G(m1)(m2)/(r^2). It's that simple,
           | it's physics. Reduce m1 and your F goes down, same for
           | everybody on the planet.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | But how do you reduce m1 without reducing r? TFA
             | (correctly) points out that many attempts to reduce m1 will
             | also reduce r, which can be counterproductive.
        
               | monknomo wrote:
               | hollow earth - just find a way to eject the convenient
               | liquid layer inside the earth elsewhere
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | Sure, there are ways around it, but someone who is only
               | given the "CICO" advice is likely to run afowl of r
               | naturally being correlated to m1.
        
             | jasonpeacock wrote:
             | It's not physics, it's biology. There are processes that
             | adjust and compensate to changes in the body and diet.
             | 
             | For example, if my BMR is 3600cal, and I don't eat for a
             | day, why am I not 1lb lighter?
             | 
             | Or if I fast for 5 days, why am I 13lbs lighter and not
             | 5lbs lighter?
             | 
             | Why is it easier for obese people to lose weight initially,
             | but then harder to lose that last 10lbs? Which is also true
             | for non-obese people.
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | You're not seeing the bigger picture. If we pull our work
               | together, we can all collectively lose significant
               | weight, and all it would take is a few measly kilometers
               | of the earth's crust being thrown off into space - this
               | is what this thread is all about!
               | 
               | Discussing fat loss is really short sighted when ejecting
               | a little bit of mass could help the entire population
               | lose some weight forever.
        
               | Kranar wrote:
               | What's hilarious is that jasonpeacock didn't just avoid
               | reading the article, but it's clear that he also avoided
               | reading the very comment he replied to.
               | 
               | It's like people just want to get outraged over nothing.
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | And not once, but twice!
               | 
               | Even though it's a lot of fun, it's honestly a bit eye
               | opening to see how little some people engage with the
               | substance of the comments they are replying to...
        
               | jasonpeacock wrote:
               | ok, jokes on me :) I did the read the article (and have
               | bought both books).
               | 
               | but I've seen so much garbage about CICO that I took the
               | response seriously..
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | Yes, I've been there once or twice myself, no judgment on
               | you personally! The amount of people responding this way
               | was a bit surprising though. I will note that I
               | completely share your feelings about the boring version
               | of CICO.
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | > these click-bait articles
         | 
         | Did you read the article? It didn't seem like click-bait to me.
        
           | lovingCranberry wrote:
           | You didn't get the joke :(
           | 
           | > Calories In, Crust of the earth Out
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | I did. It gets into all this stuff about "density" and
           | "distance from the center of the Earth." I just feel like
           | that is missing the point. As I said, weight loss is simple
           | CICO, Calories In, Crust of the earth Out. You don't need to
           | think about it any more than that, no matter what "scientific
           | publications" like XKCD tell you.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Simple does not mean easy. In fact sometimes a simply difficult
         | problem is the hardest.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | That is absolutely true. I'm not trying to tell anyone this
           | isn't a hard challenge. But I think we can all lose weight
           | this way given enough effort.
        
         | themitigating wrote:
         | So you provide a single, simple method of weight loss and then
         | you edit your comment when attacked and add a single case of
         | weight loss to make your point. You then claim there's no
         | possibility for debate, it's proven, and you reiterate how
         | simple it is
        
         | poulpy123 wrote:
         | You misunderstand simple for easy, and the fact that you refer
         | to physics for something that belongs to biology and psychology
         | show that you don't really know what you're talking about
        
           | tsimionescu wrote:
           | Weight really has very little to do with biology, and nothing
           | to do with psychology. It is a simple matter of how much the
           | earth's mass bends space-time - the more mass we eject of the
           | earth, the less bent space-time will be in the vicinity, the
           | less we'll all weight.
           | 
           | It really is the simplest weight loss method possible, it
           | will work for everyone living on the planet at once, and the
           | article presents it (and its difficulties) quite clearly -
           | not sure why you'd go off topic by talking about biology and
           | psychology.
        
           | jkqwzsoo wrote:
           | You're totally missing the joke. Read the article and check
           | back.
        
         | make3 wrote:
         | While this is true strictly speaking, whether weight-loss
         | actually happens is 99% a psychological thing, and ignoring
         | that is ridiculous. People aren't magical machines with
         | infinite, perfect willpower, ignoring that this is the main
         | factor is completely out of touch. That's what the whole
         | conversation is about, how to make it easier for people, more
         | realistic. Find foods that make people feel sated while still
         | eating less for example. Find ways to make habits. etc.
        
           | tsimionescu wrote:
           | Not really - your psychology really has absolutely nothing to
           | do with how much force the Earth exerts on you (and everyone
           | else). CICO captures this perfectly: the more Crust of the
           | earth Out, the less force the Earth will exert on us, so
           | we'll all weigh less. No amount of psychology will help or
           | prevent you from losing those newtons of weight!
        
         | d0mine wrote:
         | If it were that simple you and your car would be able to use
         | the same fuel--it is likely a bad idea in most cases.
        
         | skellera wrote:
         | I'm surprised how many people stopped reading at CICO. It's
         | like a meta example of clickbait in 3 sentences.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | Yes, next time I get annoyed at someone on HN I plan to
           | return to this thread and remind myself that I'm in the elite
           | 1% of commenters who actually read the article and the other
           | comments before I write something.
        
             | sshine wrote:
             | I'd get offended, but I wasn't paying enough attention to
             | what the conversation is about to understand what side to
             | be on!
        
           | dnissley wrote:
           | I think it's more that people did not even bother to open the
           | article
        
         | sagebird wrote:
         | Why go to space at all? Just stretch your arms until they form
         | a great circle around the Earth. Where your hands meet, hold a
         | dumbell the mass of your bodice. Once your hands interlock, you
         | can safely lift your feet from Earth's tyrannical force and you
         | will gracefully float like a ring of pure joy.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | But what if I don't have a bodice? Do I need to go get one or
           | can I just skip the dumbbell too?
        
         | shadowpho wrote:
         | 98% of people are unable to follow your "simple" idea. Hence,
         | it's not simple by definition.
         | 
         | Furthermore, it's not that simple. Lots of other factors affect
         | metabolism, hunger and energy levels, all of which have huge
         | effect on weight loss\gain.
        
           | MuffinFlavored wrote:
           | It's simple by definition but not easy to do. Cravings (fat,
           | sugar, filling boredom with eating, depriving yourself from
           | flavor of diet soda/soda) is easier said than done.
        
             | elil17 wrote:
             | It's true, spending time eating can distract from the only
             | real way to lose weight, which is by reducing the mass of
             | the planet Earth. Stay focused, everyone! Together we can
             | do it.
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | No way, I'm already at a good healthy weight. If I lose
               | 20 lbs my doctor will get concerned, and I'll end up
               | spending a lot of time getting tests for various cancers.
        
               | dwohnitmok wrote:
               | If you follow elil17's suggestion your concern is moot.
               | There won't be any doctors. Anywhere.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | > Crust of the earth Out
           | 
           | Read the linked article, they're making a pun.
        
           | throw0101c wrote:
           | > _Hence, it 's not simple by definition._
           | 
           | simple != {easy, convenient, _etc_ }
        
             | swyx wrote:
             | insert obligatory Rich Hickey mention
        
             | elil17 wrote:
             | Exactly, thank you. Simple != convenient is absolutely the
             | best way to summarize it. Losing weight this way is
             | extremely inconvenient. It does mean that earth will become
             | uninhabitable. But that does not mean that it's not worth
             | the hard work!
        
               | function_seven wrote:
               | You're ignoring genetics. We have evolved to store fat to
               | survive in harsh conditions, but this does not mean we
               | can survive a missing crust and exposed mantle.
               | 
               | Perhaps CRISPR can help?
        
           | parker_mountain wrote:
           | > Lots of other factors affect metabolism, hunger and energy
           | levels, all of which have huge effect on weight loss\gain.
           | 
           | Metabolism/energy levels/etc are Calories Out. If your
           | metabolism is low, your Calories Out is lower.
           | 
           | Look at BMR, such as
           | https://www.active.com/fitness/calculators/bmr
           | 
           | Very simple. CICO.
           | 
           | e: there are relatively rare medical conditions, such as
           | water retention, that can affect weight loss. A better term
           | might be "body fat percentage". But the end result is that if
           | you want to lose body fat, consistently intake less calories
           | than your body uses for energy.
        
             | elil17 wrote:
             | I think if we're looking at body fat percentage that's a
             | very different question, and something that's probably more
             | in the realm of biology than physics. But weight loss is
             | simple, it's not going to be effected by medical conditions
             | or "metabolism" if you can just reduce the mass of the
             | Earth.
        
           | elil17 wrote:
           | People are always going to make these arguments. Yes, I know
           | that there's scientific evidence that your mass effects your
           | weight and that hunger, metabolism, etc. effect your mass.
           | But we have to look at effect sizes. Whatever diet you try,
           | you are only every going to have, at most, a modest effect on
           | your own _mass_ which will indirectly lower your weight.
           | 
           | I challenge people to go out there and start launching chunks
           | of matter on escape trajectories from Earth. Yes it is hard,
           | yes it takes a lot of energy, but you will start reducing the
           | force of gravitational attraction acting on you. These are
           | real results, not just a temporary change.
        
             | checkyoursudo wrote:
             | Wouldn't it be easier for me to go live on the moon
             | instead? Or better yet, a nice, comfy asteroid?
        
               | tsimionescu wrote:
               | Easier, but far more selfish. By helping reduce the
               | Earth's mass, you not only help reduce your own weight,
               | but the weight of all current and future inhabitants of
               | the Earth!
        
             | idrios wrote:
             | I'm inclined to agree with the parent comment on this,
             | maybe argue they're being conservative. I'd say closer to
             | 99.999% of people would struggle with this weight-loss
             | plan, and hurling chunks of matter from your backyard to
             | out of earth's orbit doesn't sound simple to me. But I'm
             | not gonna knock an idea before I've tried it.
        
               | elil17 wrote:
               | Fair, but if just 1 person can do it, it works for
               | everyone on Earth.
        
               | idrios wrote:
               | True. And I suppose it does get easier the further you
               | go, what with escape velocity going down as you remove
               | more mass..
        
               | EGreg wrote:
               | Have you personally shown people how to do this? Can you
               | link to some testimonials or endorsements from former
               | clients?
               | 
               | After all, anyone can say anything, and even point to
               | lottery winners, but I want to learn from the best what
               | it takes to actually win the lottery. I myself am not a
               | success coach but the other day, someone very successful
               | told me that anyone can succeed at a startup. All they
               | have to do is get their billionaire parents to give them
               | a small loan of 10 million dollars, and let them iterate
               | through and fail a few times. The key is to go back to
               | the family trough and then you can get bailed out
               | multiple times. If your parents are not billionaires then
               | there are ways to fix it. This can work for anyone. He
               | showed that such an approach actually pays off because in
               | the end you make back everything you lost AND you can now
               | afford an amazing car and TV!
               | 
               | His friend said he was "reducing a hard problem to a much
               | harder problem". But what does his friend know, he is
               | poor by comparison and seems bitter
        
           | throwaway729562 wrote:
           | It's simple but not easy.
        
           | gloryjulio wrote:
           | Simple != easy. Simple/complex vs easy/hard if this
           | illustration helps
        
           | gcanyon wrote:
           | "simple" <> "easy"
        
           | gilded-lilly wrote:
           | I once lost 17kg (50 pounds) by caloric restriction (500cal
           | deficit per day). I've got news for you: you will be slightly
           | hungry most of the time. Meals will be the highlight of your
           | day.
        
             | Broken_Hippo wrote:
             | You only know that _you_ were slightly hungry most of the
             | time. For _you_ , meals were the highlight of your day.
             | 
             | But you didn't _need_ to go hungry. Folks lose weight by
             | caloric restriction and fill up on a lot of fruits and
             | (non-starchy) vegetables. Some folks have luck with legumes
             | and beans and filling foods. Some folks snack and don 't
             | have meals.
             | 
             | And the experience of hunger changes, too! Sometimes, in
             | the same person and definitely between folks.
             | 
             | Examples: I used to smoke. Nicotine is an _excellent_
             | appetite suppressant, and honestly made it easier to lose
             | weight.
             | 
             | High stress can make me lose most of my appetite or do the
             | opposite.
             | 
             | I menstruate. A few days each month, I have indescribable
             | hunger. It is hormone driven, and unlike other hungers I've
             | experienced. Suddenly, I feel like I've skipped meals. It
             | consumes me. I can't do anything about it, but if I eat a
             | little, I can go back to paying attention to other things.
             | 
             | Not me personally, but there are a number of drugs that
             | increase your appetite, too.
             | 
             | Again, the point really is that hunger isn't as simple as
             | "you'll be slightly hungry most of the time".
        
               | gilded-lilly wrote:
               | Interesting. You may be right - in fact, I'd never
               | considered filling up on broccoli or other calorically
               | thin ingredients to suppress hunger. I was just working
               | on the assumption that hunger is the body's response to
               | caloric deficit (in the absence of drugs).
        
           | addisonl wrote:
           | > 98% of people are unable to follow
           | 
           | This would imply 98% of people are overweight which, even in
           | America, is far from the truth.
        
             | elil17 wrote:
             | I think they key question is "overweight" compared to what?
             | Yes, far less than 98% of people are overweight compared to
             | a baseline created by doctors that was essentially biased
             | by the existing distribution of weights in western society.
             | But 100% of Americans are overweight compared to how much
             | they would weigh if the Earth's mass was reduced by 50%.
        
             | parker_mountain wrote:
             | Yeah, it's much closer to 65%. And it's been constantly
             | ticking upwards for years. Haha, uh oh.
             | 
             | e: overweight Americans are about 32.5% of the population.
             | Obese is another 36.5%.
        
           | notyourday wrote:
           | > Furthermore, it's not that simple. Lots of other factors
           | affect metabolism, hunger and energy levels, all of which
           | have huge effect on weight loss\gain.
           | 
           | It is that simple: people simply are looking for an excuses
           | why they aren't willing to do it.
           | 
           | I'm going to again plugin this guy
           | https://hubermanlab.com/how-to-lose-fat-with-science-
           | based-t... because his lectures are amazing and he breaks
           | down the actual scientific consensus on these topics rather
           | well. He is neuroscientist and tenured associate professor in
           | the Department of Neurobiology at the Stanford University
           | School of Medicine who has made contributions to the brain
           | development, brain plasticity, and neural regeneration and
           | repair fields.
        
         | g_log wrote:
         | CICO is true, of course, but it doesn't do justice to how
         | interesting the whole topic of weight loss is. Why do some
         | people need more food to reach satiety, why do some people move
         | more, for example.
        
           | tsimionescu wrote:
           | To be fair, in the CICO model, everyone on Earth would lose
           | the exact same amount of weight, regardless of any of the
           | factors you mention - or at least, the weight loss we'd
           | experience from truly following the tenets of CICO could
           | easily offset any individual mass modification from food or
           | exercise!
           | 
           | It's also true that you'd get far more, and quicker, weight
           | loss by increasing your distance from the earth instead of
           | reducing the earth's mass, but that seems a little selfish...
        
         | iamthepieman wrote:
         | This is utter trash and clearly you're a shill for the CICO
         | industry. The real secret to weight loss is CICU Calories in,
         | Centripetal force Up. This has been suppressed for decades by
         | rocket scientist, the government, Elon Musk and other elites.
         | 
         | The only real thing that will be shrinking under CICO is your
         | bank account as it's drained dry by the subsidies for crust
         | flingers.
         | 
         | Under CICU your weight will go down as energy is expended to
         | increase the rotational speed of the earth. This will not only
         | leave the crust intact but would also allow us to see multiple
         | sunsets/sunrises in a single "day".
        
         | allsunny wrote:
         | i get the joke but reminds me of a good talk where some
         | googlers got a little upset when gary taubes started going into
         | the problems with CICO thinking.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6vpFV6Wkl4
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | It's never been this evident to me how few people on HN even
         | read the comments they spend time replying to.
        
         | pid-1 wrote:
         | Also, you don't need git, just memorize code changes.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | secabeen wrote:
         | My favorite fact about weight loss is that most of the actual
         | physical loss of atoms is through your breath.
        
           | geertj wrote:
           | Yes! Through CO2 to be precise.
        
           | swyx wrote:
           | so does that mean working out more => more breath/CO2 => more
           | weight loss?
           | 
           | trying to reconcile this with the conventional advice that
           | weight loss is 90% about eating right
        
             | nashequilibrium wrote:
             | I love how he captures it in a balloon during this Ted talk
             | on fatloss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIlsN32WaE
        
             | space_fountain wrote:
             | The problem with working out to loose weight is that your
             | body knows it takes more calories and so it happily ups
             | your appetite
        
             | jvalencia wrote:
             | I can't remember where I read it unfortunately, but yes,
             | breathing harder will contribute to weight loss.
             | 
             | edit: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/breathing-
             | exercises-for...
        
             | aaronblohowiak wrote:
             | the fork is mightier than the metabolism!
             | 
             | the breath thing is how the metabolic waste products leave
             | the body (when your fat gets broken down eventually the
             | mass of it leaves your body as co2).
             | 
             | also, the amount of hours you spend not working out
             | dramatically trumps the amount of hours you spend not
             | working out so working out itself doesnt change your mean..
        
             | DiggyJohnson wrote:
             | I don't see why these things must be as interconnected as
             | you're question suggests.
             | 
             | If you have a relatively constant outflow of breath,
             | measurably but not drastically affected by exercise, the
             | CICO conception could still account for the net difference
             | in body mass.
        
             | hnuser123456 wrote:
             | You are always breathing, but you breath about 3x more
             | while you're working out cardio style, but you're not
             | significantly changing your average breath rate for the day
             | unless you're working out for hours daily. 24 "rest-hours
             | of breath" on a lazy day, 26 "rest-hours of breath" on a
             | day when you spend a full hour doing cardio/running/etc, so
             | spending an hour doing intense workouts only increased your
             | carbon exhaled by 8.3%. Also, somewhere around 2/3 (if not
             | 3/4+) of the weight you lose per breath is simply water
             | vapor restored when you have your next drink, not carbon
             | atoms being attached to oxygen molecules in the air. Also,
             | working out makes you hungry, rightfully so (in a world
             | that isn't essentially full of infinite tasty food for
             | those of us with a little money). The only way to lose
             | significant weight is to feel hungry, and to stop eating
             | before you "feel" full. This is de facto psychologically
             | insurmountable (or nigh unsustainable) to everyone who is
             | overweight and wants to lose it but just can't bear to be
             | hungry enough for long enough. Spoken as someone slightly
             | overweight who just needs to feel a little hungry for a
             | couple months to get to a much better weight. And of
             | course, once you've made a habit of eating over your ideal
             | calories, even after you've lost the weight, your stomach
             | is still bigger and it's effortless to go back to eating
             | your usual large-self amounts even after you've lost all
             | the weight, and go right back to large-self weight.
        
           | tsimionescu wrote:
           | It's important to note that in the method of weight loss
           | discussed here, you don't have to lose a single atom from
           | your own body, but your weight can go down by an almost
           | arbitrary amount. For example, Yuri Gagarin had his weight
           | reduced to almost 0kg, together with his rocket, while not
           | losing a single atom (talking about the indie of the cabin,
           | of course).
           | 
           | It takes a lot of effort, but you don't have to feel hungry,
           | and the results will beat exercise by orders of magnitude in
           | terms of pure weight loss!
        
           | ideamotor wrote:
           | So we should all be wearing masks after-all.
        
         | bergenty wrote:
         | I actually dislike any extended conversation on losing weight.
         | Just stop eating is basically the answer. It sounds blunt but
         | it feels like we need to hammer the message in.
        
       | torotonnato wrote:
       | Ehhh too much work, suck out the nucleus with a long straw and
       | spit it far enough
        
         | OkayPhysicist wrote:
         | The longest possible straw is only like 30 ft long.
        
       | perlgeek wrote:
       | Kind of a meta comment, it's always interesting to see / hear
       | that when a somewhat well-known author writes a new book, you see
       | interviews with them cropping up on "all the usual" places, other
       | outlets write about it etc.
       | 
       | It's nice with something like "What if? 2", because Randall is an
       | interesting podcast guest, and there are just so many different
       | things to talk about.
       | 
       | It's a bit more annoying in other cases, where within two month
       | you hear the same author on 5 different podcasts, and the author
       | says the same thing on each of them. Time to use the skip button.
       | 
       | I guess that's simply how it works nowadays in publishing:
       | writing the book is work, but then you also need to spend quite
       | some time promoting it, in the hopes not only that it boosts
       | sales, but also that the boosted sales put the book in some
       | bestseller lists, boosting sales even further.
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | > _within two month you hear the same author on 5 different
         | podcasts, and the author says the same thing on each of them._
         | 
         | They've received media training to do exactly that, to repeat
         | their main talking points _no matter_ what the interview
         | questions are, and normal journalists are trained to ignore it
         | and just move on to the next question, so it usually works for
         | them both (but us listeners and readers are left with the
         | situation you describe). Sometimes, though, the people asking
         | the questions aren't willing to ignore it, and if the
         | interviewee does not catch on to this and adjust their answers
         | accordingly, the interview can go disastrously wrong:
         | 
         | https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/woody-harrelson-reddit...
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | I know for a fact that publishers will now vet _authors_ as
         | well as manuscripts. A nice-looking and personable author,
         | preferably with a well-oiled presence on social networks, has a
         | much higher chance of getting published than the rest of the
         | pack; that 's because publishers now "sell" _the author_ as
         | much as the book.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | More importantly to the publisher, the author sells
           | themselves. Most books are basically flops and so having a
           | built-in market is a huge advantage for the publisher.
           | 
           | Also saves them having to do much publicity, too.
        
           | ska wrote:
           | Publishers have always "sold" authors, it's the how that's
           | changing. In 1990 internet/social presence probably wasn't
           | seen as meaningful, now it's just one of the standard tools
           | in the bag.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | If we're selecting for mediagenic authors with a lot of
           | Twitter followers, we're going to get the culture we deserve.
           | I grant that publishers have always selected for things other
           | than the quality of the book alone, just observing that this
           | has an effect.
        
             | ephbit wrote:
             | Makes me ask myself: which hugely successful works of
             | fiction (excluding stuff like the Bible) are out there
             | convincing readers solely through their content because the
             | author remains anonymous/pseudonymous and how can they
             | reliably be found?
        
               | karaterobot wrote:
               | First thing that came to mind was Elena Ferrante, but
               | also one of my favorite authors, K.J. Parker (who is no
               | longer pseudonymous but was for a long time).
               | 
               | But why does it have to be fiction, and why does the
               | author have to be anonymous? There's a big difference
               | between being anonymous and being a social media
               | influencer: I'd guess most of the best and most
               | influential fiction and non-fiction authors have fallen
               | in that range.
               | 
               | The thing to avoid is a world where publishers would say
               | "Sorry, Mr. Faulkner, we won't be publishing your little
               | book until you get a few more followers."
        
               | ephbit wrote:
               | > But why does it have to be fiction .. ?
               | 
               | My immediate thought was: would it even work to publish a
               | non fiction book anonymously?
               | 
               | > There's a big difference between being anonymous and
               | being a social media influencer.
               | 
               | Agree. My reasoning was: even without any digital social
               | media, charisma (and other factors such as having
               | connections or previous success) is probably a trait that
               | positively influences an author's success. If you want
               | "pure quality of the oevre itself" to speak for itself,
               | then shouldn't it have been published anonymously?
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | top web fiction, royal road, and so on - there are a lot
               | of places budding authors can post their fiction. Since
               | we are talking about unknown authors the burden is on you
               | to find them. That means get off the top lists and search
               | things that are way down in the rankings (most of the
               | ones on the top of the list will publish on Amazon in the
               | future as that is where the money is)
        
           | digdugdirk wrote:
           | This is actually one of the more important aspects in
           | publishing. But its not so much the author themselves being
           | sellable, its the built in sales they might have from their
           | social media audience. The conversion rate from marketing to
           | their own audience is _much_ higher than otherwise, and is
           | enough for even small publishers to justify an initial print
           | run of a niche book.
        
           | SleepilyLimping wrote:
           | You must fandom everything you can.
        
         | mathattack wrote:
         | I'd the book is a one-off you see this a lot. The best podcasts
         | are with people who aren't promoting a specific item, just
         | themselves as experts. You get more variety that way. In
         | general if they're on a book tour, I only listen once no matter
         | how much I like them.
        
         | jimmydddd wrote:
         | Tim Ferriss was one of the first to avoid a traditional book
         | tour when marketing his first book (4 hr work week). Instead,
         | he reached out to bloggers, which was a new strategy at the
         | time. He's written that he would tailor each interaction for
         | the culture of each blog. So he'd use a portion about fitness
         | for a fitness blog, and a portion about finance for a finance
         | blog, etc. At least that mixed it up a bit.
        
         | fknorangesite wrote:
         | > nowadays
         | 
         | When has it _not_ worked like this?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | J.D. Salinger. Samuel Beckett. Anybody writing under
           | pseudonym, a practice that used to be extremely common
           | (Ellery Queen, etc).
        
             | fknorangesite wrote:
             | Did you think I meant that every single author always goes
             | on a press tour? If so, why?
        
           | perlgeek wrote:
           | I guess I just wasn't aware of it in the past. Back when I
           | listened to radio, I wouldn't often come across the author
           | doing interviews, but then I only switched between 3 or maybe
           | 4 different stations...
        
           | VyseofArcadia wrote:
           | Hm, I was going to say before podcasts, but then there's TV.
           | So I was going to say before TV, but I bet it was like this
           | on the radio.
           | 
           | Let's go with the 19th century, when it would have been more
           | difficult to read five of the same interview with someone in
           | five different newspapers.
        
             | VoodooJuJu wrote:
             | Even the Romans did this:
             | 
             | https://pressbooks.bccampus.ca/spectaclesintheromanworldsou
             | r...
        
         | ska wrote:
         | > I guess that's simply how it works nowadays in publishing:
         | 
         | Not nowadays, this is how it has always worked. Promotion is
         | always trying to find cost effective ways to raise awareness,
         | using whatever tools are available in the budget that makes
         | sense for the project.
         | 
         | You are listening to podcasts that have a correlation, in the
         | days before podcasts you might have noticed the same things
         | with talk shows or magazine articles, the main difference being
         | you might consume fewer of those so not notice as much.
        
         | soneca wrote:
         | I think it is how it works since always. Book tours on
         | bookstores and book interviews (newspapers, tv, and radio) are
         | a way of promoting book sales on launch for some time. Just
         | added podcasts to the mix.
        
           | fasthands9 wrote:
           | I do sorta wonder how often people are turning down podcasts.
           | 
           | Will MacAskill was on several of my favorite podcasts lately.
           | Presumably it makes the interview slightly easier for the
           | interviewer when there is a clear argument/thesis of the
           | author but also seems like he would have been just as good of
           | a guest 4 or 8 months ago (and 4 or 8 months from now) as he
           | is now. And seeing he always has a desire to promote his
           | work/his view I don't know why he would ever say no to a
           | legitimate podcast.
           | 
           | Was Will saying no to them then? Or asking people to wait? Or
           | is much of this still sorta random and it takes the
           | initiative of a third party PR person to connect people?
           | 
           | (Replace whatever author you are thinking of with Will)
        
         | jagraff wrote:
         | This has been extremely noticeable with the author of What We
         | Owe The Future, he's been on every podcast I listen to over the
         | last month or so
        
         | TideAd wrote:
         | In many cases, the point of writing the book is getting the
         | book tour.
         | 
         | Ever thought "wow this book really should have just been a blog
         | post"? Well, there is no such thing as a blog post tour.
        
           | lbotos wrote:
           | depending on the topic a "blog post tour" may be speaking at
           | conferences.
        
           | perlgeek wrote:
           | What do the authors get out of the book tour? Fame, maybe?
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Unless the author is relatively well known, the book tour
             | often barely pays for itself. In some cases the author gets
             | to travel "on the company dime" and basically tour the
             | country/world and have the expenses paid by some book
             | sales.
             | 
             | The author may also get a much larger cut of any books sold
             | during the tour, even without "signing fees" or similar.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | They are hoping to get the big break. That can be people
             | who see them locally buying a copy (most people will buy a
             | book when the author is there, but may not even look at the
             | book otherwise, so you can count on a few sales if you
             | appear in a bookstore), but ideally is moves onto they
             | actually read the book and like it enough to tell all their
             | friends. You can get a big bonus if a someone well known
             | happens to be in the crowd and tells all their followers.
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | Money, traditionally.
        
         | umeshunni wrote:
         | It's not just for authors. You'll observe the same for new
         | movies, TV shows, product launches etc. It's not a coincidence
         | that leaks and behind the scenes articles and videos pop up
         | when something new is launching. That's just how the PR
         | machinery works.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | These comprise of more than 50% of reddit posts on all the
           | popular subreddits. You can filter any post title with a
           | celebrity or upcoming release of media in it as an ad.
        
           | spywaregorilla wrote:
           | > It's not a coincidence that leaks and behind the scenes
           | articles and videos pop up when something new is launching.
           | 
           | Can't leak something after it's been released though
        
             | yakubin wrote:
             | There are sometimes leaks of deleted scenes from films.
        
               | psd1 wrote:
               | I bought the director's cut of _Home Plumbing_ and there
               | were deleted scenes of leaks
        
         | VoodooJuJu wrote:
         | This sounds like advertising 101 for just about anything with
         | sizeable resources behind it - big movies, AAA game titles,
         | gladiator matches [1], etc.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://pressbooks.bccampus.ca/spectaclesintheromanworldsour...
        
         | adamsmith143 wrote:
         | >I guess that's simply how it works nowadays in publishing:
         | writing the book is work, but then you also need to spend quite
         | some time promoting it, in the hopes not only that it boosts
         | sales, but also that the boosted sales put the book in some
         | bestseller lists, boosting sales even further.
         | 
         | PR Tours for Books have been around for decades. The format may
         | have changed but the concept has been around for a long time.
        
       | andai wrote:
       | I thought the question was how many kilograms of dirt would you
       | have to physically carry into outer space (eg. up a really tall
       | ladder) in order to burn 20 lbs (70,000 calories).
       | 
       | If my calculations are correct: 1 (kilo)calorie is 4184 joules.
       | So you need to burn 70,000 * 4184 = 292,880,000 joules. It takes
       | 9.8 joules to lift 1kg by 1m. Using an "outer space" definition
       | of 100km (100,000) meters, it takes 980,000 joules to lift 1kg of
       | dirt to space.
       | 
       | Dividing 292,888,000 joules (the amount of energy we want to
       | burn) by 980,000 (the energy it takes to carry 1kg to space), we
       | get about 299 kilos. You'd have to carry about 300 kg up a ladder
       | to outer space to lose 20 lbs. (Subtract your body weight, of
       | course!)
       | 
       | (Accounting for the fat burned along the way is left as an
       | exercise to the reader ;)
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | I'm glad to hear there's a follow up book to _What If?_ ( _How
       | To_ was also good, of course) - it 's one of the more
       | entertaining, yet educational, audiobooks I've listened to (and
       | it really does work well in audio form unlike much non-fiction,
       | plus Wil Wheaton is the narrator).
        
         | causi wrote:
         | Personally I can't stand Wheaton's narration. He's an
         | incredible presenter in video content but when he's doing
         | narration he always does this voice that just _drips_
         | arrogance.
        
           | throwaway675309 wrote:
           | I'm in the same boat as you, I don't think that he's doing it
           | intentionally but I just don't believe he possesses a smooth
           | enough modulation to enjoy listening for long periods of time
           | as you would with an audiobook.
        
       | chinchilla2020 wrote:
       | If you change the mass of the earth then you have a new orbit
       | problem to contend with too.
        
         | olddustytrail wrote:
         | You don't really. Stays the same.
        
           | function_seven wrote:
           | How very heliocentric of you. Some of us worry about the
           | moon!
        
       | Nition wrote:
       | > You didn't actually need to remove mass from the Earth, you
       | just needed to go under it. You could've avoided all that work
       | with a comparatively simple tunnel.
       | 
       | Or a really tall ladder.
        
       | serf wrote:
       | This whole thread has taught me more about group-outrage and
       | psychology than physics and weight-loss _by a long shot_.
        
       | jeffrallen wrote:
       | That was.... highly unexpected.
        
       | impoppy wrote:
       | So I wondered if I could lose some weight if I teleported on top
       | of Everest and started searching for formulas. Apparently, this
       | question is already answered and the answer is yes - I could lose
       | half a pound.
       | 
       | https://www.quora.com/On-top-of-Mount-Everest-is-the-force-o...
       | 
       | So yeah, if you have resources to shave off that much of Earth
       | surface, then you have resources to construct a high enough
       | building to lose those 10 pounds which would have been _a lot_
       | easier.
        
       | refracture wrote:
       | His humor goes over my head sometimes but he does such a good job
       | of making it just digestible enough for the lay-person like me.
       | Well done!
        
         | jon-wood wrote:
         | His ability to make what is actually quite complex science
         | accessible is mind blowing. What If, How To, and now What If 2
         | are some of my eight year old son's favourite books. I'm
         | absolutely certain he doesn't really grasp any of the maths,
         | but he adores when things going terribly wrong as a result of
         | those maths.
        
       | sixstringtheory wrote:
       | > You could've avoided all that work with a comparatively simple
       | tunnel.
       | 
       | Having just dug several holes 3' deep and 8" wide for a small
       | project, that's definitely still work XD
       | 
       | I'd actually be interested to read a What If on digging a tunnel
       | to the other side of the earth. Oh... https://what-
       | if.xkcd.com/135/
        
         | 988747 wrote:
         | I guess digging 10-15 meters of that tunnel towards the Earth
         | core with a shovel would be enough for an average person to
         | lose 20 pounds :)
        
       | d-us-vb wrote:
       | He just needs to learn the Soleus Pushup.
        
         | screye wrote:
         | so meta.
         | 
         | meta comment - it this the most memes an HN thread has
         | tolerated ?
        
       | intrasight wrote:
       | You'd lose about 10% if you ascended to the ISS. Sounds MUCH
       | easier.
        
       | mckirk wrote:
       | When you see that art style, you know it's going to be good.
        
       | xracy wrote:
       | Could you build a giant space straw that sucks out the molten
       | core instead of peeling away layers, and otherwise leave the
       | crust alone so you don't make volcanos everywhere?
        
         | mattnewton wrote:
         | Good news: the crust is still technically there Bad news: a
         | bunch of it collapsed in the middle and the resulting energy
         | heated it to make more magma and the crust is unrecognizable
        
           | lapetitejort wrote:
           | Lets just hope it swirls in the right direction with the same
           | iron consistency so that we can maintain our magnetic field,
           | or else our distance ancestors (millions of years from now)
           | might have trouble breathing.
        
             | tsimionescu wrote:
             | I feel an inescapable urge to point out that our distant
             | _ancestors_ have long stopped breathing, and its our
             | distant _descendants_ who will slowly lose their atmosphere
             | as an unfortunate byproduct of this plan.
        
             | mattnewton wrote:
             | Cosmic rays will finally give them all the super powers we
             | need. I saw it once in a documentary called the fantastic 4
        
         | kadoban wrote:
         | I don't think the Earth is structurally sound enough for that
         | to work, at least if you're hoping to make any kind of a hollow
         | shell.
         | 
         | If the goal is just to preferentially remove the dense stuff
         | first, that would likely work. You'd still destroy every part
         | of the biosphere though. The crust bits shifting into place as
         | you remove everything below them would be catastrophic, off the
         | scale earthquakes everywhere and extreme heating and volcanic
         | activity.
        
       | psd1 wrote:
       | Anyone can lose weight without giving up any of the things they
       | love! _Here's how:_
       | 
       | 1. Live a full life 2. Get in a wooden box 3. Slough away all
       | your soft tissue - you might like to use it for a worm farm 4.
       | Welcome to the new-look you!
        
       | djmips wrote:
       | What about adding very low density material to the crust, in
       | other words - go up?
        
         | ouid wrote:
         | no dice, you'd have to climb it, and that would be exercise.
        
           | function_seven wrote:
           | No need to climb. With the vast resources you have seized for
           | this project, you can probably have a few of your laborers
           | carry you up to the new ground plane in a palanquin.
        
             | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
             | Just build a plinth 364.3 km tall, and place the weight
             | watcher there. With air and water, if we're being nice.
             | 
             | (sqrt(190/170)-1) * earth radius
        
       | bhaney wrote:
       | Weird to see this on Nautilus instead of Randall's site where
       | he's put hundreds of other "What-If"s
       | 
       | https://what-if.xkcd.com/
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | It's publicity for his new book, What If 2.
         | https://xkcd.com/what-if-2/
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | otikik wrote:
       | I contest that our own bodies are part of Earth's crust and thus
       | a more efficient way to do this would be removing mass from our
       | own bodies exclusively.
       | 
       | Depending on your constitution, the simplest way to achieve this
       | is cutting one or two of your legs off.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | There's an old joke "Want to know how to lose 10lbs of ugly
         | fat? Cut off your head!"
        
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