[HN Gopher] Soldering Wires - Here's a different way ___________________________________________________________________ Soldering Wires - Here's a different way Author : laktak Score : 212 points Date : 2022-09-26 12:35 UTC (1 days ago) (HTM) web link (www.instructables.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.instructables.com) | SkyPuncher wrote: | This is extremely useful to me as a _hobbyist_. Many of the | critiques in this thread are valid, but probably not relevant to | the hobbyist environment. | | For me, I struggle to get solder even in the best of | circumstances. It's just a skill that I cannot master. I really, | really like this technique as it enables me to make passable | hobby solders without risking messing up my project. | klyrs wrote: | As a hobbyist, I've had my fair share of cold solder joints*, | so I flinched when I saw what the linked article recommends. I | once did something similar with cheap perf board, and ended up | scrapping it because they can only take so much rework before | the traces are destroyed. | | The only "good" I see in this is that they author has left a | rat-tail of unmelted solder so at least it will have some flux | left to wet the wire. | | * which show up as intermittent opens at DC with some fun | dependence on position / temperature / humidity. At audio | frequencies, they're disastrous -- I can only imagine what | they'd do at HF. | sickcodebruh wrote: | I just started working with soldering last week to do my own | pickup replacements and basic electric guitar maintenance, so | this is very timely! | | In my first two attempts, I managed to swap pickups successfully, | where "success" is measured as "it sounds the way I expect, all | knobs and switches work, there is no unexpected buzzing." I worry | about how much I don't know about it, so I'm curious: is it | possible that I need to expand my concept of success? Should I be | concerned that a joint that's fine today won't be OK tomorrow? Or | is it enough to say that if it sounds right and doesn't look like | trash, it is good enough? | toast0 wrote: | > Should I be concerned that a joint that's fine today won't be | OK tomorrow? Or is it enough to say that if it sounds right and | doesn't look like trash, it is good enough? | | It depends on the application. If you're not performing, the | cost of a joint that fails later is just a bit of annoyance. If | you're on stage and your equipment fails, that's a lot worse. | | I wouldn't think guitar solder joints are stressed out too much | though, so if it lasts a week, it'll probably last longer. | There's a little bit of vibration and motion, but not a lot of | power or heat. And most people try to take it easy on their | guitars --- it's not like car wiring or anything. | amelius wrote: | How would he solder two stranded wires together without helping | hands/device? | Kirby64 wrote: | Twist two wires together... lean them against something to prop | them off your table, then gently add solder and your iron. No | need for helping hands, you just can't be too brutal with it. | akiselev wrote: | I prefer to just use a heat gun with some solder seal | connectors (marine grade for free waterproofing). | MithrilTuxedo wrote: | NAVAIR 01-2A-23 NAVSEA SE004-AK-TRS-010/2M MARINE CORPS TM | 5895-45/1E USAF T.O. 00-25-259 | | STANDARD MAINTENANCE PRACTICES MINIATURE/MICROMINIATURE (2M) | ELECTRONIC ASSEMBLY REPAIR | | https://www.robins.af.mil/Portals/59/documents/technicalorde... | | I was a solder tech in the Navy. That was our Bible. | bsder wrote: | Interesting. It looks just like the NASA guidelines, but with | military slapped all over it. | | I wonder which ones came first given how much aerospace is | miltary work. | gw99 wrote: | There's some terrible advice in there which is merely cargo | cult thinking. The whole thing needs garbage collecting. | | The final straw was when I saw someone using a wire brush on a | Metcal tip after reading one of these mil spec guides. | | I was production engineer defence sector for a few years. | linker3000 wrote: | Best I saw during my apprenticeship days in the 1980s was | when we had some EE degree students on work placement. | | We worked in R&D and all (Multibus II) boards were hand- | soldered and had to be visually inspected by a supervisor | before testing. | | One chap presented his board for checking and, after a visual | and touch inspection, our supervisor said that some of the | joints were a bit 'pointy' and would need fixing. | | So off went the student to the fab area of the workshop, the | board was put in a vice and I just stopped him as he | approached the bench with a sandpaper-wrapped block of wood. | armatav wrote: | Hand soldering is a pain, also - ALL those joints are going to be | cold and brittle - use a heat gun/headers and the paste. | jasonpeacock wrote: | I was taught to heat the wire and touch the solder to it. | | This looks like they are laying the wire on the solder, then | heating the solder - not the wire. Won't this result in a cold | solder on the wire? | DanBC wrote: | Lots of the joints in the images are sub-standard. This method | is fine if you're happy bodging something together, but it's | not great. | [deleted] | malfist wrote: | Yes, this will result in a cold join that will be unreliable. | akiselev wrote: | The OP uses single stranded wire but the solder blob on the PCB | creates far more surface area contact for heat transfer from | the iron which makes a large difference with stranded wire. | When you're soldering hundreds of connections, the time savings | from not having to pin the wire against a solid surface or clip | it in place is substantial. | | The bigger problem is that all the rosin flux in the solder | will have evaporated, likely making the joint very weak. Most | DIY projects lack any form of strain relief so it's a double | whammy for any wire that will shift around. | FpUser wrote: | >"The bigger problem is that all the rosin flux in the solder | will have evaporated" | | But the OP specifically adds short pieces of solder to the | pads before soldering wires. When they finally lay the wire | and start heating that solder piece might have just enough | flux in it. Alternatively one could just smear some flux on | the pad before laying wire. | | Still I am not convinced this particular way is of any | practical advantage. | akiselev wrote: | Flux helps break the surface tension between solder blob | and wire so I really doubt the flux in the unmelted solder | would have a path to flow to the wire. | | But yeah, my solution is to just dip the wire in a jar of | flux as I'm stripping and twisting them | fps-hero wrote: | That's a neat looking trick, will have to see how well it works | in practice. I can't see it working too well if you need to feed | the wire into a through hole. | | My trick is to tin the joint and the wire, apply no-clean flux to | either the joint or the wire (situation dependent), then bring | the two together while reflowing the joint. Quite handy for | soldering tight multi-pin connectors. | | The real tip is buy flux, it's just as important as solder. | cronix wrote: | We much preferred rosin based flux in our shop. It flowed much | better, made more perfect joints (no holes) and was much easier | to clean after repairs. | exmadscientist wrote: | Agreed on the through-holes, and doubly agreed on the flux. All | magic in soldering ultimately comes from flux. | | The other way you can easily solder to pads is to use solder | paste. Many people don't seem to realize that paste is good for | more than just reflow. It's not as useful for situations like | this, where you need a relatively large solder volume (so I'd | also use your method), but it works quite well for smaller | scale work. | pachico wrote: | Surely unrelated but I remember being 15 (30 years ago) and being | an electric guitar player with modest or no economic resources. | | I'm not saying that I celebrated the moment when one of my wires | or jacks broke, but it felt great fixing it with a little | patience and some soldering. | | I am close now to many musicians that never fixed any of their | wires/cables. | | I kinda like to belong to those older times. | duncan-donuts wrote: | The last few years I've been getting out and playing guitar | with more people. The thing I found most surprising was how | most guitar players don't know how to fix their guitars. I | genuinely enjoy fixing my guitars. | genmud wrote: | My trick for soldering wires to PCBs is to put a large blob of | solder on the pcb, tin the wire (with a bit more than you | normally would) and then just heat the joint/wire and am done. | | I run my iron really hot (750F/400c) and just get in and out. I | use a curved conical tip and have never have had issues with this | technique. | amelius wrote: | Well, they say that you lose the flux too early using that | method. | genmud wrote: | Only if you spend too much time on it. | | You do have to wet your tip more frequently when you are | using high temp with flux core. However, I end up with shiny, | well made joints 99% of the time. If I burn off the flux, I | typically will wick it up and re-apply, or just swipe the | solder off the joint and add more solder (depending on what I | am working on). | squarefoot wrote: | Bad advice. Just use a good solder iron, thin solder (possibly | leaded), and good no clean flux, then lots of practice. It's all | about timing: too quick = cold solder joint; too slow = burned | pad/track, or part. Learn also to understand about thermal mass | and how to change the temperature and timings according to what | you're soldering and its size. | | Also, that iron looks like a Hakko "936" cheap clone: they are | barely above the garbage level; get a better one. Used Wellers | aren't that expensive, and no, you won't need a microcontroller | for digital temperature control and all those gimmicks they put | in modern solder irons. I also have a PineCil from the same folks | that made the PinePhone and was amazed by its quality. Yes, it | has a mcu for digital temperature control, but I'd lie if I wrote | that I used any of its functions beyond setting the temperature. | picture wrote: | The PineCil looks like a TS100 clone, though I'm not too sure | which came first. The huge benefit of these microcontroller | irons are their monolithic heating element that integrates the | temperature sensor. This allows for much better temperature | control compared to cheap Hakko-style irons where the tip is a | metal piece that sleeves over the heating and sensing elements. | It makes a very meaningful improvement in terms of the time it | takes to heat up parts with high "thermal inertia" | MivLives wrote: | TS100 was first. I believe the Pinecil also takes TS100 tips. | | I've liked the Pinecil except sometimes mine crashes in the | middle of me soldering. I need to update the OS but I'm lazy. | It does fail cold (Says it's hot but it's not heating) which | is probably the better of the two ways it could go. | buescher wrote: | I like my Metcal and wouldn't be without it. But by most | accounts the '936 clones do fine with real Hakko tips. | | A lot of technicians seem to like to have temperature knobs so | they can dial the temperature around instead of swapping out | for an appropriately sized tip: this works of course except | when it doesn't. | lolc wrote: | Excellent! Why do I only see this now, after battling with a | third hand for so long? Now I want to solder something! | orangepurple wrote: | Soldering is good, BUT... | | You should avoid soldering when possible because connectors are | detachable for module maintenance and solder is prone to cracking | in high vibration environments. Typically you will see a | connector soldered and otherwise secured mechanically to a PCB | where vibrations are unavoidable. | | Crimping is better whenever feasible | jstanley wrote: | Crimping is better if you're an industrial facility and you can | afford to scrap a few parts working out how to crimp them. | | If you're an individual making runs of 1 and you have to crimp | a different connector to a different wire every time, soldering | is easier and more likely to result in a reliable connection. | InitialLastName wrote: | This is probably true for scaled production, BUT... | | Most people following Instructables for tips on soldering wires | to vector boards aren't likely to need to maintain their | prototypes, and roughly 0% of those prototypes will be in a | high-vibration environment. | gw99 wrote: | Actually this crap will probably be bodged into a rats nest | nightmare project if it's an instructables user. | | Anyone who has debugged one of them knows to do things | properly or suffer the wrath of intermittent problems. | orangepurple wrote: | And intermittent problems make newbies lose motivation | extra quickly and care even less until they eventually rage | quit. It's better to just get connections done well right | away | orangepurple wrote: | Soldered connections can be surprisingly crap (intermittent | electrical gremlins) especially if you're a noob. You can't | easily spot a cold solder as a noob. Meanwhile even a noob | can easily judge basic crimp quality. Better to get an all- | in-one box assortment of cheap male and female connectors off | eBay | | I started out soldering but now it's mostly limited to | installing connectors into PCBs followed by hot glue around | the housing for mechanical rigidity | DoingIsLearning wrote: | Still the GP comment is in the right direction. | | For wires like the ones in the video you can still use | something like a small phoenix connector and just screw your | wire connections in, just like you would wire up a choc box, | no crimp tools required. | | The advice in the post will likely create a cold joint and | intermittent/noisy connections. | phs wrote: | As someone who only wants to occasionally perform one-off | firmware flashes on my devices, soldering always felt clumsy and | heavy-weight. | | For actual chips, SPI programmer clips have been great. For test | pads, I just ordered one of these [1], which will hopefully work | just a well. | | [1]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MKHH7DY | spfzero wrote: | TAG-Connect makes a nice one of these. I use their target | footprint on all my MCU projects now. The guide holes and pins | make it easy to hold with one hand and know it will stay put as | you initiate the programming with your other hand. | duped wrote: | This looks like a recipe for cold solder joints and solder | bridges and doesn't seem like it saves time. | | What you really want to do when you have dozens of jumper wires | is to do an array-of-struct to struct-of-array transform on the | steps. Instead of cutting, stripping, tinning, and soldering one | wire at a time, cut all your wires, then strip them all, then tin | them all, then solder them one by one. | | Here's a pro tip: when you tin the wires, lay the iron flat on | your workbench with tip out into air and tin by laying the end of | the wire on top and then adding the solder. | | Another pro tip: use a pair of needle nose pliers to bend the | tinned leads by a little over 90 degrees to make a little hook. | When you solder to the board you can apply a little tension and | let the solder flow into the hole. Makes very string solder | joints. | teaearlgraycold wrote: | Oh no. We've invented the assembly line again. | austinjp wrote: | > do an array-of-struct to struct-of-array transform on the | steps | | I call this "pin-making" after Adam Smith's famous/apocryphal | account of the division of labour in a pin factory [0] and do | it in pretty much every area of my life :) | | [0] | https://www.econlib.org/library/topics/highschool/divisionof... | Whitespace wrote: | If you have that many stripped wires to tin, you can use a tub | of flux and a solder pot. Dip the wires into the flux, then | quickly dip it into the solder pot. Perfectly tinned end with | no plastic melting. Really hard to mess up vs a soldering iron, | a wire, and solder wire. | | You can even dip multiple wires into the flux and solder bath | at the same time, as well as use the flux tub again before you | solder the tinned wire to the contact. | duped wrote: | Totally true, but you don't always have a solder tub or tub | of flux laying around. The other advantage of this approach | is it's easier to avoid tinning under the insulation | mdturnerphys wrote: | And if you have a lot of wires to strip, get a compound | automatic wire stripper or a laser wire stripper. | [deleted] | lagrange77 wrote: | There are laser wire strippers? Shut up and take my money. | mdturnerphys wrote: | Here's the one I've used: | https://www.laserwiresolutions.com/product/mercury-4/ | bsder wrote: | Yeah, every time I see a soldering "tutorial" that doesn't | use separate flux--I facepalm. | | Flux is probably more important than the solder for good | joints. A syringe of paste flux makes life ridiculously | easier. | gw99 wrote: | I did several years in production engineering. We never | used flux. Not once. It's a crutch for people who don't | know how to solder. | | What we did was use solder that wasn't shitty. Big fan of | felder 62/36/2 but it ain't cheap. | | We also cleaned stuff properly before soldering it. The | reason people tend to flux things to death is that they | didn't clean the oxide layer off before soldering. Or used | shitty solder. | wolfendin wrote: | Yeah, I've been soldering for something on three decades | now and the only time I need flux is removing parts on | ancient boards. | | More flux that what comes with the solder isn't necessary | with good technique. | linker3000 wrote: | "It's a crutch for people who don't know how to solder." | | This needs shouting from the rooftops. | | So many people get sucked into the groupthink on this; | yes it helps with less-than-perfect beginner's soldering | skills, but it should not be normalized. | | Flooding every joint with extra flux is unnecessary and a | waste of money. | | /Pet peeve (well, one of them!) | randombits0 wrote: | We all don't get to work on nice, new, shiny PCBs. | Sometimes other things get in the way. I have three | different kinds of flux, two types of solder, copper | wick, three solder suckers, two guns, and a scratch pen. | I'm not out to practice the art, I just want to be | effective. | bitdivision wrote: | felder 62/36/2 [0] is a flux-cored solder. So you were | using flux every time. | | It's also a leaded solder, which is much easier to get | nice joints from than lead-free. | | Flux is great, adding some before you solder is a good | tip, and will likely help you make better joints if as | you said, you haven't perfectly cleaned everything. The | only downside is perhaps some more cleanup afterwards. | There's no reason to disparage it's use. | | 0: https://www.felder.de/products/electronic- | applications/manua... | gw99 wrote: | Yes it's additional flux that you don't need. | OJFord wrote: | So flux is 'a crutch for people who don't know how to | solder', because that knowledge would lead you to use | 'expensive' flux-cored solder instead of 'shitty solder' | plus flux? | | I really don't think either's wrong, and anyway I assume | 'production engineering' is not using how-to-solder | tutorials. | randombits0 wrote: | Depends. New work versus rework versus what-is-this- | piece-of-crap? | buescher wrote: | I agree up to... new parts shouldn't need cleaning. And | cheapo hobbyist-grade RF and audio connectors often have | a weird chrome + some kind of oil or varnish surface | finish that just won't clean off or solder and flux is a | godsend for those. | | That said, I let someone borrow my bottle of liquid flux | about a decade ago and have never bothered to replace it. | JKCalhoun wrote: | Another pro tip, get a better soldering iron than the one in | the video. | | Soldering stations aren't cheap (Hakko is my somewhat-budget- | friendly favorite) but that (plus good solder) will make you | realize you've been able to solder all along: it's just that | you were using crappy tools. | whatshisface wrote: | This looks like a good idea, but is the wire getting hot enough? | Does the rosin work to dissolve the oxidization on the wire when | the solder is being melted and sucked in by surface tension, as | opposed to being melted by the wire directly? I could conceive of | the rosin all ending up on the surface of the blob using this | technique, not touching the wires. | Zobat wrote: | I'm guessing you really should (primarily) heat the wire in the | final stage. With rosin core solder you should (my assumption) | get a good joint as the pad is already "wetted" by solder and | the flux in the solder should make sure you wet the wire | enough. Haven't tested this so do your own verification. | tzs wrote: | I miss wire wrap. Simple, fast, and very reliable. | DanBC wrote: | I feel like tutorials should make it clear when they're giving | you correct technique or some quick and dirty hack. | | One of the images shows damaged insulation and too much solder. | https://content.instructables.com/ORIG/FES/OFV3/KZ7C3ZX0/FES... | sitzkrieg wrote: | great technique to triple solder usage of simple wire joins | | and as many have already said, pretty good way to get a cold | joint or pockets | dylan604 wrote: | Yeah, but it's from the 70s, so it has to be good, right? | an1sotropy wrote: | plus with the accent it's more authoritative (at least to my | US ears). | WalterBright wrote: | For me, the breakthrough was getting a thermostat controlled | soldering iron. Suddenly I could make perfect joints every time. | akiselev wrote: | It's not the thermostat but the power output that matters and a | slightly more expensive soldering iron will generally have a | slightly better power supply. For example, the best soldering | iron I've ever used is the Metcal fixed temperature inductive | soldering station which require changing out the tip alloy to | change the temperature (and I've never had to change tips for | temp, only shape). | pclmulqdq wrote: | The temperature you need is very dependent on the PCB. I have | heard of macbook repair techs using 850-900C irons because of | the amount of metal in that PCB and its heat dissipation | capabilities. I usually end up around 700-750 for hobby | projects with 2-4 layer PCBs because I like to do the joints | fast. | fuckstick wrote: | Show me a professional soldering station that goes anywhere | near 900C - I think most max out at 500. I doubt the tip | alloys could withstand that heat very long. Sounds | ridiculous. 700C is excessive for just about anything. | pclmulqdq wrote: | Sorry, I meant 900F, which is almost 500C. | akiselev wrote: | Metcal fixed temperature soldering irons use RF induction | instead of resistive heating elements so they don't | struggle with large copper pours like that. The soldering | irons you're thinking of have very poor thermal recovery | compared to a proper Metcal. | gw99 wrote: | Correct. Once you go Metcal you don't go back. When I got | divorced the first thing I put on the "mine" list was my | Metcal :) | | You can solder on 0805 parts and switch to soldering | bolts onto nuts without changing the tip or any settings. | skybrian wrote: | I have one, but I don't know what temperature to set it to and | there are probably other flaws in my technique, so it's still | trial and error. | MarkMarine wrote: | Depends on the solder and the component, for wires there is | no way to hurt it so you can crank up for efficiency, and for | sensitive components you need to be more careful. | | It's actually much harder to make a good solder joint with | lead free solder, so be kind to yourself about it. No harm in | re-doing a joint. | WalterBright wrote: | You can melt the insulation off the wires :-/ | | Anyhow, I never fried a part with the iron. Heated the wire | just enough to flow the solder, and applied heat only | barely long enough. | | To avoid needing a third hand for some joints, I'd pre-fill | the hole with solder. Then heat it up again till it melted, | and push the wire in. | munificent wrote: | Electronics was my pandemic hobby. Even with a temperature | controlled solder station, my technique was really hit or | miss. Part of that is obviously experience, but the real | lightbulb moment for me was _good solder_. | | Once I switched to Kester solder, I had a much better more | consistent experience. My hypothesis is that cheaper solder | doesn't have the flux as evenly distributed, so you get spans | of solder with too little flux and then everything gets | worse, then you hit a good patch and it gets better. | skybrian wrote: | Any particular kind you like? I'm still using some lead | solder my wife had; maybe I should go lead-free if I'm | buying some? | munificent wrote: | The one I got is "Kester 24-6337-8800 50 Activated Rosin | Cored Wire Solder Roll, 245 No-Clean, 63/37 Alloy, 0.031" | Diameter". I have no idea which of those words and | numbers are significant. :) | | I didn't go lead-free because I've heard leaded solder is | easier to use (lower melting point?) and since I'm just a | part-time hobbyist, the health and environment | considerations are minimal. It's not like I'm soldering | eight hours a day every day. | WalterBright wrote: | Yes, flux is necessary. I use Kester solder, too :-) | | P.S. I worked my way through college being an electronics | assembly technician, so I spent a lot of time soldering. I | enjoyed making the boards look perfect. | | It turns out, this skill is transferable to soldering | copper water pipes. Never had a leak! (Using a torch not an | iron.) | dogben wrote: | Watch this before inventing a new way of soldering. | | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL926EC0F1F93C1837 | gw99 wrote: | You shouldn't really lap solder wires to boards. They tend to | pull the pads off the boards or crack. Better to use wire to | board connectors or solder terminals. | johnwalkr wrote: | Those just starting out tend to think of solder as more direct | than using a connector so therefore more secure. | | But it's surprising how poor the reliability can be. Aside from | your points, solder can wick up a cable, and then the cable | often breaks just at the point where the solder ends since it | has no strain relief and may be right in the middle of a bend. | This is especially true for adding solder to a crimped | connector "for good measure". It does more harm than good. | | That being said it's convenient many times especially if you | don't have connectors on hand or need to place wires in a | specific orientation. Hot glue or better yet, RTV silicone can | be used to make strain relief to increase the reliability. Or, | when using perf board like in the post, a good technique is to | drill a hole for a snug fit of the cable including insulation, | then pass the cable through the hole before soldering to an | adjacent hole. | gw99 wrote: | Good advice. | | It's worth expanding on my comment now I have a few minutes. | You can terminate solid core like this if it has some strain | relief but not stranded!. | | My favoured construction method is to take a Hammond box lid | and screw a piece of blank FR4 single sided copper to the | inside of it leaving enough space around the edges for any | (proper) connectors you need. You can then drill out anything | you need, usually BNC, SMA, DC jacks, FT capacitors and D | connectors for me. You build the prototype on the FR4 board | dead bug and use solid core or RG174 to wire up the | connectors and lap solder them to the boards or components as | required. This is done carefully with thought for weight | distribution and to keep the total mass of the wires low. | When it works the Hammond box is closed. If it needs to | withstand vibration or moisture you build it into the bottom | of the Hammond box and when done fill it with potting | compound. | exmadscientist wrote: | No, you shouldn't lap join wires to surface-mount pads. But | sometimes you have to. Just don't deliberately design something | this way and we'll call it good. | | (Through holes are fine. Mostly.) | Ao7bei3s wrote: | Yes, but if you do have to design a PCB for soldering wires | to pads, you can increase the strength of the pad by making | the pad much larger in the copper layer. You can still keep | it the original smaller size in the solder resist layer; | keeping the soldering area away from the pad edge and fragile | traces there increases the strength further, and gives it a | tidy look and a nice soldering experience. | | For quick one offs, simply place a normal pad, place a copper | fill polygon connected to the same net around the pad, and | turn off thermal reliefs / set pad connection to solid for | the polygon. Obviously if you need it a lot, draw a new | footprint. | gw99 wrote: | You should even really do that. There are loads of nice | solder in crimp terminations now that you can use for | wires. Or wire to board connectors. | | Just stay away from any Molex crap. Tends to charcoal | itself. | buescher wrote: | There are some really cool surface mount IDC things too, | and push-in terminators for solid wire. | | Solid wire through holes is OK if the wire is never going | to flex. Otherwise the stranded wire lapped to surface | mount pads, or soldered into through holes, with a big | blob of hot glue or epoxy for maybe-sorta "strain relief" | is a great pet peeve of mine - it's ugly and it breaks. | | Never had a problem with Molex, myself. | temporallobe wrote: | As a soldering amateur, this looks effective, but it also seems | to waste solder wire. Are there any other drawbacks? Either way, | I'm definitely going to test this method out. | Jemm wrote: | I like it. That solder ball from the expanding rosin is a bit | concerning but that was just a demo. | eternityforest wrote: | I have done this stuff in production environments. Wires and | connectors are like, 30% of the challenge on simple projects and | can make or break the quality of a project. | | You MAY have a chance if the wire is pretinned or you use flux. | Do not do this with bare copper even if it looks like it works, | you will probably get at least a few cold joints. | | The better version is to coat the wire and pad with solder, put | the wire on the pad, flux. then press it into the pad with the | iron. | | Better yet, never ever solder wire directly to a board in hobby | or low volume work unless small size is totally critical. | Especially stranded. It makes a metal fatigue point if things | move at all, and requires hot glue to stand even a few bend | cycles. | | And even when you do have good connectors, it's probably still in | your best interest to minimize the number of wires hanging | around, learn about I2C as quick as you can. | | It can't be quickly disconnected for repairs and replacement and | troubleshooting. | | It's a lot of work. | | Even if done perfectly it's just not very nice. | | Instead, solder connectors to the board directly. For short | ranges use 2.54mm jumpers. Never use male jumpers if you can | avoid it, they are delicate and annoying. | | For longer distances, there are lots of things that don't suck, | USB-C, 2.1mm barrel, Ethernet, 3 pin XLR, and whatever your | country has for mains electricity. | | Stay away from normal 4mn banana plugs unless you are in a field | where they are already everywhere. The cheap ones shear off. and | have bad connections and they are not particularly common. Even | DMM test leads don't use them, they use the shielded versions. | | Common off the shelf stuff that you can buy extensions for. Don't | solder long wires to stuff, it will just make a tangled mess when | you put it away and make it hard to troubleshoot. | | When you do have a reason to do stuff like that, Wago connectors | and pigtail adapters are your friend especially for tests and | troubleshooting Because then when you realize you actually don't | need 5 XT60 extensions, you can swap the ends for something else | quickly. | | And most importantly Do. Not. Invent. Some. Crazy scheme of | powering all your projects from a central point over long 12v | wires. Every new electronics DIYer seems to do it, and cables and | wires are often the enemy. Yeah it looks cool and sci-fi and | seems like a good idea to have wires everywhere, but single | purpose and custom made cables are a nuisance to deal with, | they're heavy and expensive and trip hazards. | the_cat_kittles wrote: | anyone have an opinion on what color to paint the bikeshed? | ravenstine wrote: | This makes so much sense. By doing it this way, the iron isn't | fighting the thermal conductivity of the rest of the solder feed. | It just has to heat a small bit of solder. | | I know there are aficionados who can point out possible | disadvantages of this approach, but honestly, I can see this | technique being really handy when you just want to prototype | something out and you want to get things done efficiently. Not | every solder joint needs to be perfect, just as not every PCB | needs to be factory quality and is going to a customer. As | someone who only occasionally needs to solder a custom circuit, | this looks like a time saver. If I was frequently making PCBs by | hand, maybe I'd think otherwise. | sandreas wrote: | Oh boy, nice idea, but this looks complicated and time consuming. | I recommend to get some good equipment first: - | solder fume extractor (see below) - extra thin high quality | tin - a desoldering pump AND desoldering wire - high | quality flux - a TS 100 soldering Iron with KU tip from ali | express for 50 bucks - optional: USB-C Power Adapter for | your existing power supply (so you don't have to buy one) - | optional: a soldering mat (normaly blue colored) | | and you have a near professional equipment for about $120. Now | flash IronOS[1] on your soldering Iron, and it works even better. | | Instructions: - turn on solder fume extractor | - heat iron to 370deg Celsius (but be careful depending on your | workpiece) - Tin both ends beforhand - better | slightly more flux to put on (but not for small works) - | if flux has been applied, cleaning up with e.g. toothbrush & | isopropyl alcohol after you're done maybe a good idea | | However, the most important peace of hardware is a solder fume | extractor... I'm surprised that so many youtube "professionals" | don't put a hint on this - never play with your health. This can | even be done DIY (see youtube tutorials). | | High quality flux is also important because of your health. | Chinese sellers often don't care about ingredients... | | High quality tin is much easier to work with and costs 5 bucks | more than low quality tin. It is worth. | | [1]: https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS | sottol wrote: | Or get a $25 Pinecil that comes with IronOS pre-installed and | is by all accounts almost as good as the TS-100 [1] (it's $40 | on Amazon now :/). I got one, was so impressed that I got | another. One big upside over the TS-100 for me is that it can | be driven by both a beefier USB-C (which I always have around | anyway) and DC-plug PSU. | | Plus, it's running Risc-V, and they even sell an breakout to | use the "logic board" as a RISC-V dev-board! | | [1] https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable- | solde... | larrywright wrote: | Do you have a recommendation for a home hobbyist fume | extractor? | gw99 wrote: | Oh please not the flux over everything argument. This is | completely wrong. | | Buy a decent iron (metcal - get a second hand one off eBay) and | some decent solder (felder 62/36/2) and you don't need it. | | Also don't use a toothbrush with isopropyl. They tend to | dissolve and leave crap all over the board. | [deleted] | buescher wrote: | Agreed on the flux, agreed on the metcal. And oh yes, silver | bearing solder is really nice. I only use it for repairs of | solder joints that have failed mechanically. If you use it | for everything, that solves that problem... but a little rich | for my blood. | | Hobbyists and technicians get obsessed with cleaning off | flux. Hobbyists have no business cleaning flux off boards. | It's very easy to wind up freeing corrosive salts from the | rosin matrix. Then they smear all over the board to corrode | and conduct. My rule of thumb is if you can't measure the | cleanliness of your board, don't clean it. | thrway3344444 wrote: | > Oh please not the flux over everything argument. | | > felder 62/36/2 | | Other readers please note that felder 62/36/2 has a flux | core. Which isn't clear in this comment. | sandreas wrote: | I modified the "advice" a bit... What would you recommend to | clean up? | gw99 wrote: | Kimwipes soaked in isopropyl pushed around with some | guaranteed 100% nylon brushes (usually the black ESD | brushes are fine for this). | | Toothbrushes bristles may melt. Not all of them are nylon | and if they aren't they will go sticky and this will wipe | off on the surfaces. | sandreas wrote: | Thanks, I keep that in mind for the next soldering | project. | linker3000 wrote: | Check out 'Acid brushes' for use with IPA. | fifteenforty wrote: | 100% on the fume extractor. Avoid the cheap little "carbon | filter" models though. You need particulate filtration and a | bit of organic vapour extraction, so HEPA +/- carbon if you are | going to recirculate it within your work environment. | | Don't take my word for it, it's all explained in the NIOSH and | OSHA handbooks. | GuB-42 wrote: | You don't get the same exposure from working in a shop | soldering all day than from the occasional hobby project. And | if you have a simple fan, you are already doing more than | most hobbyists. | | Safety is not priceless. Regulators carefully calculate how | much impact various safety equipment and practices have | relative to their cost. And you too should consider how much | you need it. Solder for hours a day, get the best fume | extractor you can find, do a hobby project every other month, | you can go cheap. | | Anyways, I wonder if a simple small desk fan fitted with a | surgical mask you probably have too much of would be a good | compromise of simple, cheap, and better than nothing for | hobbyists. | buescher wrote: | I have never bothered, personally, even when I built more | of my own prototypes myself. Hobbyists should consider | their personal risk and go in increments. If you are not in | a situation where setting up monitoring for exposure to | flux per the NIOSH handbook is appropriate, you probably | don't need much mitigation either. Putting solder | assemblies at a level where flux smoke won't go up into | your face is a good idea and practically free. A fan is a | good idea, especially if you have one already. | | If you're fixated on getting yourself a fume extractor... | well, to each their own. | accrual wrote: | As someone aspiring to solder more, thanks for this list! Do | you have any thoughts on the TS 100 vs the Pinecil? I thought | the Pinecil was a slightly newer and more refined iron but | curious if you have an opinion. | | https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-solde... | ThatPlayer wrote: | I did have issues with 2 Pinecils breaking on me. The first | one they replaced under warranty. I still use a 3rd I have, | so I don't mind recommending it because I can get a Pinecil | for cheaper than a TS100, and I doubt you'll get better | support for a TS100 if something does come up within the | warranty period. | | Oh I should mention I have both the TS100 and Pinecil, and | the Pinecil does everything the TS100 does. | belval wrote: | Not the original commenter, but the pinecil has been serving | extremely well for a while now. I ordered it when it launched | and probably use it every two weeks. | | Full disclaimer I know some people had trouble with the USB-C | power input so YMMV, but considering the price it's probably | the most cost-effective tool I ever bought. | sandreas wrote: | No, I did never own a Pinecil, but the TS100 is just awesome, | but the KU tip is even more important. It looks too big for | fine work, but it isnt. I soldered a broken backlight fuse | for my T480s with this (that's proably the tiniest thing ever | soldered without a heat gun). | lapetitejort wrote: | > Now flash IronOS[1] on your soldering Iron | | I got to here and thought this was some elaborate joke, and | expected the github page to continue on with the joke. An | operating system for a soldering iron?? But no, it seems 100% | serious. Somehow soldering iron tech passed me by. | racnid wrote: | Anything more than your basic soldering iron is probably | running a PID loop to control temperature. I don't know if my | hakko is supported by IronOS but I could easily see it as a | useful option. | | It's the flashlight guys who have really run amok: | | https://www.reddit.com/r/flashlight/comments/xopqft/prob_a_g. | .. | sandreas wrote: | Everthing is better with open firmware :-) Glad you like it. | outworlder wrote: | I just need a firmware that will connect to Home Assistant so | it can track my soldering habits. | | Just joking... mostly. | lapetitejort wrote: | As someone who has left their soldering iron run overnight, | this might be useful... | linker3000 wrote: | Most soldering iron firmware includes a sensor routine | that turns them off if movement stops for a set period. | outworlder wrote: | Why is it that the TS100 gets recommended so often? | | I took a look at it, ultimately got a TS80P. It's smaller, and | fed via USB-C. Seems to work perfectly fine. | | > solder fume extractor | | How big of a deal is solder fumes of unleaded solder? | sandreas wrote: | > Why is it that the TS100 gets recommended so often? | Higher temp lighter faster heat up easier | temp adjustment | | See https://oscarliang.com/ts80-soldering-iron-ts100/ | | > How big of a deal is solder fumes of unleaded solder? | | Depends on solder, but spending $40 for not risking your | health is affordable in my opinion... | ThatPlayer wrote: | The TS100 tips are not compatible with the TS80P last I | checked. The TS100 uses generic T12 tips that are easier to | get. Same as the Pinecil too. | linker3000 wrote: | The fumes come from the flux, and they're not that great for | you in quantity. | | Soldering temperatures will not vaporize lead or the metals | in unleaded solder. | | There is also some conjecture that the fluxes used in | unleaded solder produce more aggressive fumes. | arcticbull wrote: | The TS100 is apparently not recommended for IronOS according to | their README. Curious why you chose that one over, for | instance, a recommended TS80P or better a Pinecil V2? Full | disclosure: I have a 15 year old Weller WD1 so I don't know | much about this. | YeahNO wrote: | I'm not a fan, this looks like terrible advise. If you want to do | high quality work, solder header pins onto the board and use | crimp-connectors on your lead wires. I don't use flux-core wire, | I prefer to apply flux directly to the pads/pins/wires as | applicable. As others have pointed out, use appropriate strain | relief. | jbverschoor wrote: | Looks like a blob of solder used as hot glue. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-09-27 23:00 UTC)