[HN Gopher] PO-80 Record Factory
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       PO-80 Record Factory
        
       Author : bpierre
       Score  : 210 points
       Date   : 2022-09-29 14:00 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (teenage.engineering)
 (TXT) w3m dump (teenage.engineering)
        
       | odiroot wrote:
       | Friendly reminder: you don't really want to do it.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ2czFuIYmQ
        
       | severak_cz wrote:
       | This is peak of audio hipsterism! Audio quality is crap. Better
       | to record on cassette with some boombox.
       | 
       | Also see this DIY project -
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y7osjazhLE
        
         | armadsen wrote:
         | Nobody that's buying this (including me) is buying it for its
         | pure utility. They're buying it because it's cool-looking, fun,
         | interesting, educational, or whatever. If my goal was good
         | audio quality, of course it's not what I'd buy. I already own a
         | high end flash recorder, multiple very capable computers, etc.
         | (I also own two of Gakken's earlier wax cylinder gramophones
         | and a few of their other kits.)
        
         | MDGeist wrote:
         | As someone who has released music on cassettes recently, the
         | unfortunate part is that few people seem to have cassette decks
         | anymore but many people have low end turntables. I suspect even
         | bad sounding records would sell better than cassettes or CDs.
        
           | marginalia_nu wrote:
           | All new cassette players are very low quality, and the old
           | ones are slowly falling apart. Even though they're often not
           | beyond repair, not a lot of people have the willingness to
           | put in the effort.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | In the age of AI fakes and perfect high fidelity available to
         | anybody, the "crap" noise and distortion of this kind of thing
         | is going to become a signal of reality that will be sought
         | after.
        
           | LegitShady wrote:
           | Ya they just invented distortion no one does that in music
           | right? It's not like they make pedals and plugins
           | specifically for distortion. Instead you should pay TE for
           | this revolutionary rebranding of an existing device.
           | 
           | It's nonsense sir.
        
             | throwing_away wrote:
             | It's really no more nonsense than lo-fi tracks having rain
             | sounds in the background or hiphop producers running old
             | school beats through a 12-bit sampler to crush it up a bit.
             | 
             | Producers use a ton of subtle tricks to make you
             | unknowingly enjoy their work more with a touch of
             | nostalgia.
             | 
             | My Roland sampler has a "simulate vinyl" effect that's
             | trying to do the same as this product, but in software.
        
               | LegitShady wrote:
               | Yes as I said there are already many distortions and bit
               | crushers in use by people making music today, this little
               | overpriced record cutter isn't revolutionizing anything
               | because of distortion.
        
         | tibbon wrote:
         | It is bad audio quality - but I find it potentially an
         | interesting effect. I could see myself using it in the studio;
         | not for final master of course, but as an effect for a section
         | of a song or instrument. Compared to a guitar pedal, the price
         | is right.
        
       | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
       | Price wise this seems alright to me, I imagine it's a bit cheaper
       | than their usual things because it'll become a thing a decent
       | number of people use to make things like rewards for Patreon
       | supporters, zine bonuses, etc. Production costs of PS2 plus
       | postage per (potentially) personalised 5" seems pretty good to me
       | for all involved.
       | 
       | A tangent but it's crazy how bad their LED matrix for IKEA is, I
       | like the speakers and all on an ornamental level (especially with
       | the 3D printer potential) and the matrix could be super neat
       | (even with the lack of dimming options) but the patterns and
       | sound responsiveness are so terrible it's a bit baffling they let
       | it go out in the condition it went out with... I'd actively keep
       | it away from the rest of the set so I didn't have to underwhelm
       | people by showing how bad it is (until I get around to modding
       | it, anyway)
        
         | tyrnnsrs wrote:
         | I applied a colour film over my matrix light because it was so
         | bright
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | Aside from the fact that this is a rebrand effort and probably
       | not TE's manufacturing, their mainline products have particularly
       | high quality design.
       | 
       | I've been watching a lot of AvE[1] lately, and his BOLTR series
       | features him breaking down hardware and talking about the
       | manufacturing.
       | 
       | While Teenage Engineering wank is definitely not his category of
       | analysis, it's probably not far off, considering he highlighted
       | how spotty the Dyson product line is. I'd love to see him
       | disassemble something like the OP-1.
       | 
       | Edit: Missing link reference.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChWv6Pn_zP0rI6lgGt3MyfA
       | 
       | Apparently, OP-1s use CNC'd solid block aluminum machining![2]
       | 
       | [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mqO7pVBxRQ
        
         | alangibson wrote:
         | It's a shame he doesn't do many BOLTRs anymore. His output
         | slowly petered out during COVID.
        
         | lukevp wrote:
         | What's AvE? You left off the link. Sounds interesting, want to
         | watch the Dyson teardown!
        
           | andrewmcwatters wrote:
           | Sorry about that! Thanks for pointing it out. Viewer
           | discretion: language.
           | 
           | [1]: DYSON ANIMAL BALLS | It blows!
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTzNJMd19A
        
       | testmzakrzewska wrote:
       | Test1
        
       | pdntspa wrote:
       | A higher quality version of this could potentially revive
       | dubplate culture
       | 
       | As a producer walking into a set with vinyl of music I've made
       | and cut earlier in the day would be DOPE. Impressive AF
        
       | MDGeist wrote:
       | Audio quality is about what you'd expect from a lathe cut record.
       | That being said, since it is so hard to get vinyl pressed these
       | days I could see a small run of cut singles being something
       | artists could sell as a novelty for die hard fans. Neat!
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | The big problem here is that due to how soft the material has
         | to be to cut, the lifespan on these is going to be somewhere in
         | the realm of 1-10 plays.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | That's like an acetate "dubplate" that promoters used give to
           | club DJs to get new music out (mostly replaced by digital
           | files now of course). They were good for a small number of
           | plays and used just to gauge the crowd reaction.
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | Right, because this is the same process.
        
             | w0mbat wrote:
             | When you make an actual record you cut an acetate of each
             | side on a record cutting lathe, which this product is a toy
             | miniature version of.
             | 
             | Each acetate looks like a one-sided vinyl record only
             | bigger (it's got margin around the edge). You can take that
             | to a club and play it, but normally you take the pair to a
             | pressing plant. They make a metal mould of each one and use
             | them to press the vinyl records.
             | 
             | When I was a teenager in 1979 my band made a single on our
             | own indie label. We got to go to see the legendary cutting
             | engineer Porky in London near Oxford Circus and watched him
             | cut the pair of acetates. Like all his work he scratched "A
             | Porky prime cut" into the run out area.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | vitaflo wrote:
       | As someone with a 7" portable turntable used for scratching
       | (Numark PT01) this thing looks awesome for making my own scratch
       | records. The question of course is how deep the cuts are. If
       | they're super shallow then that won't be as nice, but I also
       | won't be as worried about wearing out a record cuz I could just
       | cut another one.
        
       | diydsp wrote:
       | Listening to the distortion, it sounds like it could possibly be
       | reduced/minimized by experimenting with pre-emphasis curves! I
       | wonder if the existing community around this product's
       | predecessor has worked on that...
        
         | mmastrac wrote:
         | "to get the optimum sound quality for your recordings, use our
         | vinyl mastering tool to pre-process your audio before cutting.
         | created for use with the PO-80 record factory, it applies the
         | desired equalizer curve to your music and makes it easier to
         | achieve good lo-fi sound quality on your custom 5" cuts."
        
       | alecfreudenberg wrote:
       | Sweet :)
       | 
       | teenage engineering has some of my favorite technical
       | documentation
        
       | rkachowski wrote:
       | The most surprising thing about this is how low the price is for
       | a teenage engineering product. I don't know anything about LP
       | manufacturing but 150 for an LP reader / writer seems pretty
       | cool.
        
         | tibbon wrote:
         | I can never get a handle on their pricing. Its all either
         | absurdly low (how do they make pocket operators so cheap?!?!?),
         | or absurdly high (why is OP-1 so absurdly high?!).
         | 
         | But at this price, hitting buy asap. It will be a neat effect
         | for use in my studio.
        
           | wahnfrieden wrote:
           | this pricing is still quite high, it's just a lower priced
           | category. it's priced at twice the japanese market version.
        
             | sli wrote:
             | Closer to 3x, if we're not including stuff like shipping.
             | The Japanese version is $55, TE's is $150.
        
           | cole-k wrote:
           | Are the pocket operators really that cheap for the
           | functionality they provide?
           | 
           | I was always of the opinion that Teenage Engineering was
           | ridiculously overpriced, but so much of what they make is so
           | cool that it makes me want to buy anyway. I'm not
           | creative/musical/rich enough to justify buying an OP-1. If I
           | ever was, though...
        
             | Marazan wrote:
             | The pocket operators are great value, the PO-20 is one of
             | the best all-in-one groove boxes around and the price makes
             | it a total bargin.
             | 
             | However, the cases are pure ripoff territory. I wonder if
             | there are 3rd party ones available.
        
             | sdenton4 wrote:
             | The pocket operators are, on the whole, amazing. Rhythm,
             | Tonic, and Arcade are my faves. The pack a shocking amount
             | of flexibility into a tiny package, and really aren't
             | overpriced at all.
        
         | benj111 wrote:
         | The read/write thing got me on the train of thought of DVD-RW.
         | 
         | It uses 5 in discs so an LPRW would fit in a standard bay.
         | 
         | If it records at 33 and plays at 78 it's even a LPRW X 2.23!
         | 
         | I wonder how much data you could store...
        
           | mmastrac wrote:
           | Based on cassette data rates using audio encoding, and a
           | total hand-wavey ballpark of ~10kB/min using modern encoding
           | techniques, I'd totally guesstimate about 100kB of data on
           | there.
        
             | benj111 wrote:
             | Well that's more than enough for anyone!
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | My old TI-99/4a stored 90kb on a 5" floppy disk.
        
         | donio wrote:
         | It's 3x the price of the Japanese original that was linked in
         | another thread. https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2453544
        
         | dn3500 wrote:
         | It's not an LP recorder, the disks are only five inch.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | As someone else has already reported, this is just a TE rebrand
         | of an existing product with a 3x price increase for what I'd
         | call the TE tax.
         | 
         | This doesn't make hifi audio.
         | 
         | It is surprising in the sense that I'm surprised TE didn't
         | charge more but not in the sense that it should charge more.
        
       | CharlesW wrote:
       | Also see VinyGo, a stereo vinyl recorder:
       | https://hackaday.io/project/181401-vinygo-a-stereo-vinyl-rec...
        
       | deworms wrote:
       | Something's broken with the design of the website, it looks
       | zoomed in and zooming out doesn't even work.
        
       | adius wrote:
       | Listening to a vinyl emits much more CO2 than listening to a
       | digital recording. I wish people would keep that in mind.
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | Can you put that in some perspective with just an order of
         | magnitude? Somehow it feels like next to auto or plane travel,
         | or consuming beef - audio playback of any kind would seem like
         | it isn't very significant.
         | 
         | Hmm actually I wonder now if this was a joke and I just got
         | suckered.
        
           | Applejinx wrote:
           | No, Benn Jordan got into that a while back. It's not the
           | listening part, it's the manufacturing that isn't 'green',
           | though I'm not sure quite how the math works: for instance,
           | whether they're counting the trucking of boxes of vinyl
           | circles all over the place rather than just uploading bits
           | locally. Some of that would apply to CDs, too, but CDs are
           | about as relevant as vinyl records are.
        
             | wyldfire wrote:
             | > it's the manufacturing that isn't 'green'
             | 
             | If this is really the case then it probably doesn't belong
             | in this thread about a usb-powered (!!) "factory".
        
             | SeanLuke wrote:
             | Also worth mentioning that vinyl records cannot be
             | recycled.
        
       | quantumwannabe wrote:
       | This appears to be a rebranding (at nearly three times the price)
       | of the Gakken Record Maker (which is still available online for
       | its MSRP of Y=7,980 ($55) [1]). It even comes with a copy of the
       | Gakken magazine! Here's a review of the Gakken record maker
       | (which looks identical to the Teenage Engineering one) [2], the
       | Japanese description from Gakken [3], and an English description
       | from a reseller [4].
       | 
       | Gakken is a Japanese educational company. One of their products
       | is a magazine called "Otona no Kagaku" (Adult Science) which
       | comes with a kit to build a toy version of a mechanical or
       | electronic device. Because they're part of a magazine, the kits
       | are only available for a limited time. Here's some examples of
       | the other issues' kits [5]. Some of the more notable ones are a
       | wax cylinder recorder [6] and a gramophone kit [7].
       | 
       | [1] https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2453544
       | https://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4057507221/gkp_shu...
       | https://hon.gakken.jp/book/1575072200
       | 
       | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB8qtW19nf4
       | 
       | [3] https://otonanokagaku.net/magazine/vol46/index.html
       | 
       | [4] https://www.turntablelab.com/products/gakken-easy-record-
       | mak...
       | 
       | [5] https://otonanokagaku.net/
       | https://www.cdjapan.co.jp/series/2993
       | https://www.adafruit.com/category/269
       | 
       | [6] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9X2CS4cs8o
       | 
       | [7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDdZFFLnsUo
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | > _They 've also made a wax cylinder recorder_
         | 
         | Jan Derogee will be ecstatic to hear that in case he loses his
         | reproducer again.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNFQkcbY5cQ
        
         | faefox wrote:
         | The margins on everything Teenage Engineering sells must be
         | insane. Thinking in particular of their "computer-1" itx case
         | which is a handful of pieces of unbent sheet metal and
         | commodity parts, all for a mere *$195*.
        
           | itronitron wrote:
           | Yeah, seems like it would be rather straightforward to send a
           | template design to an online fabrication company. CNC seems
           | like it would be overkill but I assume they are willing to
           | cut sheet metal.
           | 
           | That could be a fun assignment for a design course. Lots of
           | technical details to consider, such as dimensions of standard
           | components, but a lot of design freedom as well.
        
             | ortusdux wrote:
             | A CNC laser would be the best bet. A good one could cut
             | this in about 5 min. Water jets and CNC plasma cutters
             | could do it, but they would probably both have issues with
             | that many pierces.
             | 
             | I agree though - $195 for this is a bit much:
             | 
             | https://images.prismic.io/teenageengineering/d379b4fd-3721-
             | 4...
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGpKAIsUIpI
        
               | janekm wrote:
               | It looks like it has countersunk screw holes, so that
               | would usually be done on a CNC punch:
               | http://www.vandf.co.uk/tooling/what-is-cnc-punching/
               | (amazing machines) It also looks powder-coated... when
               | you consider their likely volumes $195 is not
               | unreasonable once you take into account development
               | costs, setup costs and overheads.
        
               | digdugdirk wrote:
               | Not discounting the coolness of CNC punching whatsoever,
               | but the reasonableness of $195 is way off, even if they
               | are manufacturing in low volumes domestically.
               | 
               | Parts like this should ideally be manufactured via
               | stamping, which would also produce any countersinks
               | needed. Even better would be to have them cut and bent in
               | a progressive die (also a super cool manufacturing
               | process!) and would have all cuts and features done in
               | one go. But if I were them, I'd probably aim for a buck
               | or two for each sheet part, maybe up to five dollars if
               | you wanted to keep it at a local shop with low volumes.
               | But the big win of having just flat pieces is you can
               | make a ton of components at once and they can take up
               | very little space on a shelf. Get a few thousand produced
               | and powdercoated, and then just keep an eye on when
               | supply runs low.
               | 
               | Basically, if they aren't making 90% margin on these (all
               | in, shipped to your door) I'd be disappointed.
        
           | JosephRedfern wrote:
           | The photo of the record factory on that landing page weighs
           | in at 9.84MB -- the margin probably goes towards AWS
           | bandwidth costs!
        
             | autoexec wrote:
             | For comparison:
             | 
             | War and Peace is only 3.2 MB, or 3.9 MB with the overhead
             | of HTML
             | 
             | source: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2600
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | Yeah but the manga version is 6.6GB
        
               | autoexec wrote:
               | Okay, now I'm curious, link to the manga version?
        
             | spaceman_2020 wrote:
             | How does a professional web designer even put up a picture
             | that large without going through some basic compression?
        
               | lrvick wrote:
               | I am generally surprised when a web developer produces
               | anything at all without 200 separate requests on every
               | pageload and a 20M+ footprint.
        
               | nerdponx wrote:
               | I've personally experienced this at work before.
               | 
               | A non-technical person uploaded the image to the CMS,
               | assuming it will be scaled down at some point after
               | uploading. A web developer used the image from the CMS,
               | assuming it was scaled down at some point before being
               | exposed for the frontend to access it. In reality the
               | image never got scaled down anywhere, and ended up on the
               | frontend in its full 9 MB glory. This ended up happening
               | with _several_ images.
               | 
               | I (not a frontend dev) ended up finding it because I was
               | writing a strongly-worded message to my team lead about
               | the huge pile of unnecessary tracking/surveillance
               | scripts being forced on frontend users, and I wanted to
               | make the point that it was making the frontend slow and
               | heavy. It turned out out that the tracking scripts were
               | nothing compared to the huge images!
               | 
               | Apparently nobody else bothered to check this before me,
               | and/or didn't stop for half a second to think about it
               | when they saw "Total page size: 13 MB" in their browser
               | devtools, and/or didn't actually attempt to do any
               | investigation when they saw our shitty Lighthouse rating.
               | The world is full of professionals in name and status,
               | but not in attitude.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Which in turn, the margin AWS has on the bandwidth they
             | sell must be insane! People seem to pay for "premium"
             | bandwidth and not even batting an eye, people just swallow
             | that stuff right up. Just like TE, it must make them a ton
             | of money.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | > Yuri Suzuki has joined forces with cult electronics studio
         | Teenage Engineering and Japanese educational toymaker Gakken to
         | launch the PO-80 Record Factory.
         | 
         | https://www.pentagram.com/news/po-80-record-factory
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Also, from the submission URL, second paragraph:
           | 
           | > PO-80 record factory is a compact and portable record
           | cutter, made in collaboration with yuri suzuki.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | As much as I think this is a bad way to record audio (or data),
       | the idea of an audio recording media that can be played without
       | electricity or electronics is appealing.
        
       | tyrnnsrs wrote:
       | got my order in! this will be really fun to play around with
        
       | nammi wrote:
       | If you're interested in how records are cut, Amanda Ghassaei had
       | a really cool project 3D printing records that goes into detail.
       | She later used laser cutting
       | 
       | https://amandaghassaei.com/projects/3D_printed_record/
       | 
       | https://amandaghassaei.com/projects/laser_cut_record/
        
       | dorfsmay wrote:
       | > experience the warmth of lo-fi audio.
       | 
       | I wonder if what some people think of warmth of lo-fi is
       | connected to the effect of white/pink/brown noises discussed
       | earlier today at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32998960
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | It's a combination of RIAA equalization, mastering suited to
         | vinyl, some distortion, and some surface noise (mostly
         | unobtrusive clicks and pops), according what my ears report me
         | while listening to vinyl.
        
           | dorfsmay wrote:
           | Do you find it "warm"?
           | 
           | Is it because you are used to it, feeding nostalgia?
           | 
           | Or could it have to do with noise (distortion, clicks and
           | pops) being soothing to the brain?
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | No, I really find it "warm".
             | 
             | I'm listening to the same Hi-Fi system since I'm six. I
             | have both vinyl and CD versions of some albums (I only buy
             | vinyls of albums which I like a lot, and listen it with a
             | coffee or tea), and they really sound different.
             | 
             | I don't think it's because it's feeding the nostalgia,
             | because I can feel the same things regardless of the medium
             | and system I listen to these albums/songs.
             | 
             | I don't think soothing the brain angle is valid either. I
             | get the same enjoyment and relaxation from both mediums.
             | 
             | For me, CD brings the enjoyment of a well brewed coffee,
             | but vinyl brings the same feeling when you (sometime
             | accidentally) brew that elusive perfect coffee for you. It
             | needs some time and intention to appreciate.
             | 
             | I'm an ex-orchestra player though, so my experience may not
             | reflect the views of bigger audiophile crowd.
        
       | Severian wrote:
       | Good for scratching, not so much for listening. "Real" vinyl is
       | going to be pressed.
       | 
       | The etching comes first on the master platter using a lacquer on
       | an aluminum disc. Then that master is electroplated. Then that
       | copy is electroplated (several times depending on production) too
       | to make the pressing disk. Basically a mold of a mold to get the
       | grooves.
        
       | entaloneralie wrote:
       | That website is so bloated, if you're on roaming data, don't even
       | bother.
        
       | kleer001 wrote:
       | needs a mic
        
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       (page generated 2022-09-29 23:01 UTC)