[HN Gopher] Meta announces hiring freeze, warns employees of res...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Meta announces hiring freeze, warns employees of restructuring
        
       Author : minimaxir
       Score  : 304 points
       Date   : 2022-09-29 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | beckingz wrote:
       | Layoffs time: move quickly and break people.
        
         | scarmig wrote:
         | If it's likely you'll need layoffs, it's probably best to move
         | as quickly as possible. Otherwise gossip, speculation, and fear
         | have the chance to dominate.
        
       | switch007 wrote:
       | At my company...
       | 
       | 1. We're aware of the economic situation and what others
       | companies are doing and are just monitoring
       | 
       | 2. We decided to just to ever-so-slightly ease off the gas on
       | hiring. It's definitely not a hiring freeze. Do not use those
       | words.
       | 
       | 3. Things are delayed just until the budget is discussed
       | 
       | 4. No new hires (still don't call it a freeze) <-- We are here
       | 
       | 5. Small amount of layoffs ?
       | 
       | 6. Large amount of layoffs ?
       | 
       | (1-4 was about 3 weeks.)
        
       | parkingrift wrote:
       | Facebook (Meta) cannot innovate. Their growth since inception is
       | almost exclusively through acquisitions. Instagram, WhatsApp, and
       | Oculus. The core Facebook product is arguably worse today than it
       | was 15 years ago. Meta's response to new market entrants is to
       | just copy their features, and when they do attempt to innovate
       | it's just comically off-base (Metaverse). This entire "Metaverse"
       | play is so ridiculous it's deep into meme territory.
       | 
       | Meta should have plainly seen the writing on the wall with regard
       | to their data collection and privacy practices but either
       | wouldn't, or more likely couldn't, pivot to new areas.
       | 
       | And now Zuck is here saying this hiring freeze is due to the
       | economic situation. Peak comedy. The reality is Meta has no
       | answer for TikTok, BeReal, Apple/Google privacy changes, or
       | whatever else is coming to the market next.
       | 
       | I wish Meta nothing but the worst, but I'm sorry for any
       | unfortunate souls who chose to work their and will be out of a
       | job.
        
       | armitron wrote:
       | Of all FAANGs I expect FB to be the first to sink. I see the
       | writing on the wall..
        
         | _boffin_ wrote:
         | Why?
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Their main product sucks and their Boomer user base is
           | literally dying. The acquisitions are keeping them in the
           | game, but Insta has intense competition from TikTok and Snap
           | and YouTube. They don't have an unsinkable critical product
           | that everyone uses and will continue to use through good and
           | bad times, like search or mail.
        
             | lallysingh wrote:
             | Shit maybe they should buy Harley Davidson.
        
             | bpodgursky wrote:
             | Snapchat is walking dead fwiw.
             | 
             | TikTok is strong, but realistically will be banned across
             | the west next couple years b/c of security problems.
             | 
             | You might hate Instagram, and that's very understandable,
             | but it's going to be fine.
        
               | mrkramer wrote:
               | Snapchat is still doing fine considering how much
               | competition they have all over the place e.g. Instagram,
               | TikTok, YouTube etc.
               | 
               | TikTok won't be banned because US will force it to
               | relocate all their relevant servers to US and hand in US
               | citizens' data to US agencies. And realistically speaking
               | TikTok is no different than Microsoft, Google and
               | Facebook; instead all data going to one superpower it
               | flows to another and majority of this data is garbage
               | that's inefficiently used to target you with personalized
               | ads. Personal data is mostly garbage like I said but data
               | about specific groups and overall population might be
               | more valuable and important taking in consideration
               | economic competition and arms race between US and China.
        
               | jeffbee wrote:
               | I used to think this about Snap but then
               | https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-
               | social...
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | Problem with snapchat is that no one older than 25 uses
               | it. They've already saturated their user base and stuffed
               | as many ads as they can into the app. There's not really
               | anywhere for them to go and they're still losing money.
        
               | mrkramer wrote:
               | They refused Facebook's acquisition offer but I think
               | their endgame is getting acquired by Google. Facebook
               | offered $3bn but Google will have to offer much more, at
               | least x5 more.
        
               | BlargMcLarg wrote:
               | TikTok being banned would cause immense backlash with the
               | public. Odds are higher it will get replaced before a ban
               | takes place, and Insta isn't exactly stepping up.
        
           | vaiso wrote:
           | Not the OP, and this is just speculation on my part so take
           | it with a grain of salt.
           | 
           | Meta gets the overwhelming majority (97.7%) of their revenue
           | from advertising[1]. Their business model is completely
           | reliant on using user data to sell highly targeted ads to
           | sellers. While most consumers don't actually care what
           | corporations do with their data, governments have been
           | starting to crack down on the types of data that can be
           | collected, and what it can be used for, especially with GDPR
           | in the EU. The less data Meta can collect, the worse their
           | targeted advertising will be, and fewer sellers will be
           | willing to pay - or pay as much - for ads on their platforms.
           | As it is, many companies are moving more towards influencer
           | sponsorship for advertising, cutting platforms like Instagram
           | out of the cost entirely.
           | 
           | The problem is that all of Meta's eggs are in one basket, and
           | that basket's bound to drop. Most other big tech companies
           | have more diverse revenue sources, and so are more robust.
           | 
           | That being said, I disagree with the premise - Netflix is
           | probably going to the first FAANG company to fold.
           | 
           | [1] https://investor.fb.com/investor-news/press-release-
           | details/...
        
             | treis wrote:
             | They're still a dominant player in a 2 sided market. They
             | still have traffic (within their site + ad network) and
             | buyers (people wanting to place ads). Even if we remove all
             | user tracking and nuke all attribution they're still going
             | to make a lot of money. It will shift to more national type
             | ad campaigns and/or targeting based on page content.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | > Netflix is probably going to the first FAANG company to
             | fold
             | 
             | Why would Netflix go out of business? Are they overly
             | burdened by debt?
        
               | lordnacho wrote:
               | Much stronger competition in the streaming space. Disney
               | has better content for every family with kids, so they're
               | first choice. Amazon already has people via Prime. How
               | many more are you going to buy? Possibly one, small
               | chance of two? You've got Netflix and all the others
               | scrambling for that last space in the house.
               | 
               | Plus they don't seem to be able to make a hit show of the
               | kind that gets subscriptions, just a lot of not too
               | terrible content.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Sure, but I do not see why that would cause bankruptcy.
               | Their market cap would shrink, but unless they are over
               | leveraged, they should be able to continue operating
               | without "folding".
        
         | keepquestioning wrote:
         | Instagram and Whatsapp are keeping them alive.
        
           | theGnuMe wrote:
           | If they play their cards right they could turn WhatsApp into
           | the premier business to consumer contact platform. Not just
           | messaging but also phone calls etc... That could massively
           | reduce the spam calls.
           | 
           | Maybe you could opt in for political calls if they pay you..
        
           | pier25 wrote:
           | Does Meta make serious money from Whatsapp?
        
         | anm89 wrote:
         | Absolutely. FB is a house of cards at this point.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | It will metastasize
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | They will throw the book right at your face
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | Problem: We will have hired all of the people we could ever hire
       | within 10 years.
       | 
       | Solution: layoffs
        
       | brentmitchell25 wrote:
       | They should only keep the engineers that remember how to solve
       | leetcode hard problems /s
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | They haven't asked leetcode hard problems for years, at least.
        
           | dominotw wrote:
           | I got 3 hards only 6 months ago. How do you know what they
           | are asking 'for years' do you have access to their questions
           | or something.
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | I am familiar with Meta's interviewing policy, which
             | proscribes LC "hard" type problems. I don't know the
             | contents of every single interview, obviously. Your
             | interviewer(s) violated explicit policy if you were given
             | LC hards.
        
               | google234123 wrote:
               | In a way does it matter? The interviewers aren't making
               | the final decisions and the actual hiring committee
               | aren't stupid and should be able do some basic
               | normalization.
        
         | nobleach wrote:
         | Have you ever interviewed with Facebook/Meta? They don't do
         | leetcode problems. Say what you want about them as a company,
         | but I've done quite a few interviews in my career and their
         | process was one of my favorites.
        
           | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
           | Good to hear that it's changed if they're not. When I
           | interviewed with Facebook, they asked a leetcode problem, had
           | me come back into the office for a second one because I got
           | strong feedback from all the other sessions, then rejected me
           | with a suggestion that I should come back in 6 months when
           | I'm better at tree traversals.
        
           | ilickpoolalgae wrote:
        
           | thereare5lights wrote:
           | This is so false. They absolutely do leetcode problems
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | Um, when I interviewed, there were two leetcode problems
           | administered by junior engineers to me. A recruiter contacted
           | me recently about a role and I asked if they still ask
           | leetcode questions... got crickets in response.
        
           | tristor wrote:
           | I had a radically different experience. The worst interview
           | I've ever had was with FB about 9 years ago. I got an offer
           | and it was significantly (like more than 2x) what I was being
           | paid at the time and I turned it down because the interview
           | experience was so awful I couldn't imagine working with the
           | people who had conducted my interview. Even setting aside
           | other ethical concerns, I've added FB to my permanent
           | blacklist of companies I will never work for sheerly because
           | of how shit their interview process is.
        
             | subsubzero wrote:
             | I interviewed with them 12 years ago, it was a long time
             | ago but I remember all the interviewers felt like they had
             | come from a funeral, everyone was absolutely miserable. I
             | knew right then and there I could never work at a company
             | with such negativity, also they wanted me to skip my
             | honeymoon to start with them which I was not about to do so
             | overall a terrible company and experience. And after I
             | started learning about their shady business dealings I put
             | them on a permanent blacklist to this day.
        
               | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
               | > also they wanted me to skip my honeymoon to start with
               | them
               | 
               | They must be really strange folks. I can't imagine 1) a
               | company who would propose such a thing to a (potential)
               | employee, 2) a person who would agree to that. Seriously,
               | WTF.
        
               | iepathos wrote:
               | Ask them for a million dollar bonus to do so and a
               | contract saying they'll pay any losses due to divorce
               | later on :P /s
        
               | xvector wrote:
               | I interviewed with Meta a few months ago and all my
               | interviewers were upbeat, enthusiastic, and excited.
               | Meanwhile my Google and Amazon interviewers looked
               | miserable and bored as fuck.
               | 
               | With Google it's actually been a pattern. Interviewed for
               | them and passed HC three times, but each time I couldn't
               | bring myself to work for them given how bored everyone
               | looked.
        
               | bckr wrote:
               | A strategy my friend used was to get the "soft offer" and
               | then shop around for a team for as long as it takes to
               | find one that excited him.
        
               | garmanarnar wrote:
               | That's literally just Google's hiring practices. There is
               | a team matching phase for all engineers.
        
             | bitL wrote:
             | Their interview process improved significantly and they had
             | it arguably better than any other FAANG in recent years.
        
               | ProAm wrote:
               | I'm interested in any evidence about this. I'm not
               | agreeing or disagreeing its just a extremely general
               | statement about 5 companies with no facts behind it and
               | would be interested to see whats different between all 5
               | companies in 2022 in the talent acquisition department.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | Eh, must have failed to push it organization-wide.
        
               | bitL wrote:
               | Well, a friend of mine was invited to an on-site
               | interview at Google once, flew a few hours there, then
               | arrived at the reception, waited for 7 hours, then they
               | told him they forgot about him and he can go back home.
               | Some people have bad experiences for many different
               | reasons (shrug)... Pity it happened to you.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | cloverich wrote:
           | Huh, I had an interview at Meta a few months back (which I
           | backed out of) and the (very nice) interviewing prep
           | instructions they provide very clearly stated you should be
           | able to do leet code style questions, preferably two mediums,
           | in an hour. Their interview process felt very organized and
           | prepared overall, although I backed out before actually
           | interviewing with folks.
        
           | mattnewton wrote:
           | I just joined Meta this year and had to solve leetcode-style
           | problems, not sure what you mean? Maybe that they aren't
           | literally taken from leetcode or taken on leetcode.com?
        
             | dessant wrote:
             | What made you want to work at Meta?
        
               | systemvoltage wrote:
               | A friend that joined Meta's AI team:
               | 
               | Blue pill: I am passionate about connecting people
               | 
               | Red pill: Money is nice, good people and low stress job
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | money...
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | I legitimately cannot see this question in the current
               | context as anything but being made in bad faith.
               | 
               | Do you seriously struggle to think of possible reasons
               | for why someone would want to work for Meta? Something
               | like "high pay, interesting/difficult challenges and
               | problems to work on, large scale rarely found elsewhere,
               | and lots of learning opportunities (including loads of
               | great engineers to learn from)" never crossed your mind?
               | 
               | Not saying that those were the reasons OP used to make
               | their choice, could have been plenty others. But given
               | there are so many obvious possible reasons, the question
               | in the context of the original comment feels just off.
               | 
               | P.S. I am neither current nor a former Meta employee. It
               | is just jarring to see reddit-tier flamebait discourse in
               | HN threads.
        
               | stonogo wrote:
               | I always think of the same question when I talk to
               | someone who goes to work for Meta. High pay, sure, but
               | that's available elsewhere.
               | 
               | Scale, by now, is surely an operations matter. If they're
               | still having to innovate to perform at their current
               | scale, what the hell have they been doing? In other
               | words, aside from the VR distraction, what interesting
               | challenges remain at Meta?
               | 
               | I know they have to rebuild their ad platform since Apple
               | devastated it. But is "convincing people to look at
               | advertisements" really still an interesting challenge?
               | That's the point of view I don't understand, and would
               | like to!
        
               | dessant wrote:
               | > Do you seriously struggle to think of possible reasons
               | for why someone would want to work for Meta?
               | 
               | Yes, I struggle to think of a good reason to work for
               | such a harmful company as Meta. People usually don't land
               | there because of a desperate need for money, which would
               | probably be one of the very few acceptable reasons for
               | joining that company.
               | 
               | And why should my question be in good faith? Why should
               | we not call out people who cheerfully join organizations
               | that pose a threat to our future, and show no civic
               | responsibility?
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | > I struggle to think of a good reason to work for such a
               | harmful company as Meta
               | 
               | WhatsApp is an extremely useful product in my life.
               | Instagram is nice for keeping up to date with some
               | friends I don't get a chance to hangout in-person with
               | often, as well as following some small local artist and
               | museum pages. I dont care for FB as a product anymore,
               | but pre-pandemic it was great for helping organize events
               | with my friends. Oculus Quest 2 is a product I use daily
               | and enjoy.
               | 
               | Most people outside of a subset of HN boiling in their
               | own echochamber consider a lot of those products as
               | useful in their lives, and will just give you the look of
               | "huh, sounds interesting, i will look into it later. Oh,
               | just remembered I had an appointment in an hour, welp
               | gotta go, see ya later" if you try to give them that
               | "harmful" spiel.
               | 
               | > And why should my question be in good faith?
               | 
               | Because that's what people come to HN for. If I wanted
               | bad faith takes galore, I would need to go no further
               | than reddit.
               | 
               | > Why should we not call out people who cheerfully join
               | organizations that pose a threat to our future, and show
               | no civic responsibility?
               | 
               | Because that's just your opinion. And it is sliding into
               | QAnon-level justifications for using arguments like "why
               | should we wear masks, when they pose a threat to our
               | freedoms and the way of life!" and "why should we not
               | storm the capitol, it is a civic responsibility to free
               | ourselves from the shadow cabal's tyrrany and threat to
               | our future!".
               | 
               | I don't agree with those QAnon takes, so I hope you
               | realize that not everyone universally agrees with your
               | takes either. And not because they are being paid by Meta
               | or were "brainwashed".
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | I see a lot more negativity towards Facebook IRL than I
               | do here on HN. If anything, the correlation seems to be
               | that those closest to the tech industry are the ones most
               | positive about it, while casual users are extremely
               | negative.
        
               | dessant wrote:
               | You should empathize more with the victims of those
               | platforms to understand why Meta is being called out,
               | both the people who got radicalized and also those who
               | are being murdered. A service can provide you a great
               | experience, while also being used as a tool to facilitate
               | ethnic cleansing.
               | 
               | People have been protesting the latter, including dozens
               | of human rights organizations around the world, not just
               | HN users.
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | > Yes, I struggle to think of a good reason to work for
               | such a harmful company as Meta.
               | 
               | It seems you also struggle to understand that the
               | majority of the world does not consider them to be a
               | harmful company, and do not agree with your assessment of
               | it.
               | 
               | Anti-disclaimer: I do not work for FAANG, nor have I. I
               | also never had a FB/Instagram account. I'm not fond of
               | Facebook, but I can see other people's perspectives.
        
               | UncleMeat wrote:
               | > Yes, I struggle to think of a good reason to work for
               | such a harmful company as Meta.
               | 
               | Then you aren't actually asking to learn. Instead you are
               | judging the poster. That's a thing you can do, but
               | couching it in a question is terrible forum etiquette.
        
           | bagels wrote:
           | I have. They definitely ask leetcode type of problems.
        
           | MattGaiser wrote:
           | I spoke to a Meta recruiter a few months ago who offered to
           | send me helpful algo resources for the interview.
        
             | pyler wrote:
             | Willing to share them?
        
               | MattGaiser wrote:
               | They ghosted me, but it was in the initial call.
        
           | burai wrote:
           | I interviewed for them. Questions were Front End related. One
           | of the questions were "how could you find a node in an hmtl
           | by id", to which I answered "using the DOM api, a
           | querySelector would do a good job". The interviewer started
           | hypothesising that the querySelector is not available, so we
           | had to start discussing a whole binary traversal algorithm.
           | If that's not leetcode I don't know what qualifies as it
        
             | morelisp wrote:
             | Basic tree traversal is considered "leetcode" these days?
             | No wonder software is shit.
        
             | throwawayhtml wrote:
             | document.getElementById??
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | That's the DOM API.
        
           | fdgsdfogijq wrote:
           | They are notorious for wanting their engineers to spit out
           | memorized solutions of leetcode hards
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | Leetcode-style problems yes; "hards" specifically, no.
        
             | nice_byte wrote:
             | I have interviewed with them more than a single time, and
             | this is simply not true.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | This thread leaves me wondering if, perhaps, interviewing
               | differs within the organization. Lots of confident "nuh-
               | uh"s on both sides.
        
               | nice_byte wrote:
        
               | nsenifty wrote:
               | They don't ask leetcode questions for Front-end engineers
               | AFAIK. It's mostly practical Javascript/DOM/browser
               | questions.
               | 
               | Funnily enough though, I heard once you join as a Front-
               | end engineer, you are pretty much a regular SWE and can
               | join any team and work on any tech, even backend/systems.
        
               | tempsy wrote:
               | it probably depends on the role and team. to say they
               | don't have leetcode style interviews at any stage for any
               | candidate is "simply not true"
        
               | nice_byte wrote:
               | I mean, they do ask algorithmic problems, but first,
               | they're not "leetcode hard" (leetcode hards can get just
               | insane, it's impractical to ask those in an interview
               | setting), more like mediums, and second - out of 6 or 7
               | interviews maybe 2-3 will be those. Domain-specific /
               | system design ones are more important. Though that
               | depends on the level they're hiring for, I imagine fresh
               | grads get more "write code on whiteboard" types of
               | questions.
        
               | tempsy wrote:
               | the claim was that they don't do leetcode questions, not
               | that they do easy and medium ones but not hard ones.
        
               | loeg wrote:
               | Both upthread claims specifically say "hards," which is
               | not true in the last few years. (In fact, LC "hards" are
               | explicitly proscribed.)
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33025666
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33025573
        
               | athorax wrote:
               | Facebook is notorious for using leetcode problems
               | verbatim. Your singular experience does not invalidate
               | that fact.
        
               | nice_byte wrote:
               | you're forgetting that it's leetcode pulling their
               | problems from the companies' question pool, not the other
               | way around.
        
               | sh4rks wrote:
               | It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, all leetcode
               | "style" questions fall into a particular bucket. Two
               | pointers, graphs, etc. It's not like the company is
               | innovating new types of problems. It's just the same
               | problem reworded.
        
               | m00x wrote:
               | This has been my experience as well, same for Amazon.
               | 
               | I didn't practice that much since I hate wasting time on
               | useless tasks, and the interviewer literally told me to
               | just leetcode and read the interview book. I asked him a
               | bunch of web questions and he had no fucking clue, all he
               | did was leetcode and interview every year.
        
           | lifeisgood99 wrote:
           | They definitely did when I did a loop a few years ago. Maybe
           | things changed or you got lucky?
        
             | matai_kolila wrote:
             | IDK why this is so contentious for folks, it probably
             | varies by team, role, or something else.
        
             | nobleach wrote:
             | Maybe? 2020 for me. The first wave had me write code to
             | solve a problem.... pretty far from Amazon's rebranded
             | HackerRank/Leetcode nonsense. I was talking to a human
             | being the entire time. They were great about making me feel
             | like they WANTED me to succeed. Next round was more
             | conversational/System Design stuff.
        
               | arduinomancer wrote:
               | I think you're confused, when people say "they ask
               | leetcode questions" they don't mean they do automated
               | tests
               | 
               | The questions the human is asking you come from a big
               | question bank and a lot of it is listed on LeetCode under
               | the meta company tag because people leak them.
               | 
               | People use Leetcode to practice for those interviews,
               | they don't use the leetcode site in the interview
        
               | nobleach wrote:
               | I guess I am just saying I didn't feel like herded cattle
               | like I did with Amazon's automated leetcode/hackerrank
               | rebranded system.
               | 
               | I mean, now I'm just here to watch the downvotes pile
               | on....
        
           | oblio wrote:
           | Leetcode problems doesn't mean leetcode.com problems in a
           | narrow sense (aka copy paste).
           | 
           | It means reasonably complex algorithmic and data structure
           | problems you're supposed to solve by coding under pressure,
           | quickly, in interview conditions.
           | 
           | And if you think that's not happening, I have a bridge in
           | Brooklyn to sell you.
        
             | nobleach wrote:
             | I suppose I AM confused then. I don't mind someone asking
             | me complex algorithmic problems as long as we're WORKING
             | toward a solution together. To me, leetcode means, "you
             | have 45 minutes to solve these 2 or 3 problems... I'll
             | watch".
             | 
             | Algorithmic thinking is kinda what I do. So solving those
             | problems doesn't feel like a bad proxy for how I might
             | perform on the job.
        
               | oblio wrote:
               | Yeah, we all solve problems using algorithms.
               | 
               | However, how often do you come up with high performance,
               | close to optimal algorithms, on your own, within 45
               | minutes?
               | 
               | How often do you implement heaps and such as part of your
               | day job, versus using standard libraries or common ones?
        
           | twelve40 wrote:
           | I have, and it was straight up leetcode. But that was a few
           | years ago.
        
           | suresk wrote:
           | I had a recruiter reach out to me about some ML positions
           | there earlier this year, and I was sort of interested in it
           | for a bit. They have an applicant portal where they literally
           | have you practice leetcode problems, and are pretty open that
           | you're going to be asked those kinds of questions in the
           | interview.
        
             | htrp wrote:
             | Are they at least ML leetcode problems?
        
               | suresk wrote:
               | No. This was for more of a machine learning engineering
               | role than a pure ML scientist role though.
        
           | axg11 wrote:
           | Have you ever interviewed with Meta? They are _the_ FAANG
           | company that places the highest weighting on leetcode
           | problems.
        
             | bitL wrote:
             | From my experience they place most weight on system design.
             | They allow you to get 1-2 neutral flags from leetcoding and
             | still get an offer.
        
               | tw20212021 wrote:
               | When I did the system design interview the guy told me
               | that zuckeberg created memcached. Not sure if he meant
               | used or invented, could have just been a language thing.
               | Anyway, I'm glad I didn't pass.
        
               | bitL wrote:
               | A guy from Google told me that a quantum computer can
               | solve all NP-hard problems... They aren't always the best
               | and brightest.
        
               | dominotw wrote:
               | leetcode is a standin for all thing you can memorize and
               | vomit out in in interview.
               | 
               | Designing url-shortner is no different than edit
               | distance.
        
               | matai_kolila wrote:
               | Meh, I can do a URL shortener in my sleep, but I'd have
               | to study to beat a leetcode test.
        
               | dominotw wrote:
               | its the opposite for me :D
        
           | typon wrote:
           | Completely not my experience. All the questions I got were
           | word-for-word Leetcode problems. At least Amazon goes through
           | the trouble of disguising them as "Amazon Deliver Trucks
           | going from house to house" instead of "an array of numbers"
        
           | EddySchauHai wrote:
           | I had to navigate a dynamic maze involving teleports and
           | boulders to show my leet graphing abilities to join as a test
           | engineer :) Suffice to say I failed. I build test frameworks,
           | manage test network infrastructure, and deploy CI/CD
           | pipelines (and think I'm pretty good at it). I just really
           | suck at leetcode.
           | 
           | Edit: In fact thinking back, they even sent me tips on how to
           | improve my leetcode skills in preparation for the interview!
           | The whole process was completely guided by it.
        
           | jfrbfbreudh wrote:
           | lol. meta literally has their own leetcode style training
           | platform for you to practice questions on when you apply for
           | SWE positions.
        
           | darth_avocado wrote:
           | I got rejected on an obscure leetcode hard last year in the
           | telephone screen, which was ridiculous considering I had
           | enough practice to destroy leetcode hards.
           | 
           | Though it worked out for me in the end, but I was definitely
           | annoyed for a day or two.
        
             | uncletaco wrote:
             | I got rejected and then when they inevitably called me up
             | the next year the recruiter pulled up the feedback from my
             | interview and I wasn't recommended because I rewrote a
             | function to be easier to unit test, after being asked "how
             | would you test this?". By rewrote I mean I added a
             | parameter to take in a fictional db client, rather than
             | instantiate directly.
             | 
             | I told her no thank you and hung up.
        
         | myth_drannon wrote:
         | I was wondering if there is a correlation between hiring
         | engineers who spend their lives memorizing leetcode hard
         | problems and a company's ability to innovate and execute?
         | 
         | Did they really optimize for hiring the top 0.001% of engineers
         | or it's just that the fish is rotten from the top.
        
           | spaceman_2020 wrote:
           | It seems to me that the selection process favors Indian and
           | Chinese engineers who are used to cramming for rigorous
           | entrance exams to top universities.
        
             | garmanarnar wrote:
             | Nah, it's the whites who the hiring market favors.
        
             | wollsmoth wrote:
             | I think it just heavily favors new grads, who just spent a
             | year+ studying algorithms. Those with full time jobs have
             | to spend precious hours of free time remembering how to do
             | these.
        
               | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
               | Well, this just sucks about these jobs interviews. I
               | learned quite a bit during my last job and I'd be happy
               | to show some of these to the interviewer, but instead I'm
               | forced to answer questions that I know have nothing to do
               | with what I'll be dealing with. It's always the same
               | story, it's just exhausting.
        
               | wollsmoth wrote:
               | Yeah, it's kinda ridiculous actually. It's like they
               | don't even believe you were employed when they interview
               | you.
        
               | outworlder wrote:
               | > I think it just heavily favors new grads, who just
               | spent a year+ studying algorithms.
               | 
               | Year+ is a fair assessment. A proper Computer Science
               | course(4 years!) is mostly about algorithms. Most of
               | leetcode hard would qualify as warmup exercises for my
               | class.
               | 
               | That was a while ago. Right now? My brain is chock full
               | of architectural stuff, k8s, several programming
               | languages, multiple cloud provider idiosyncrasies, etc
               | etc. Can I do leetcode? Yeah sure. Can I do it during an
               | interview? I've tried recently, bombed spectacularly.
               | 
               | I'll probably have to invest the time prepping properly
               | because there's little choice these days. Like you said,
               | it's using up our precious free time. I'd rather be, I
               | don't know, writing some stuff in Rust so I can add that
               | language to my toolbox.
        
               | dominotw wrote:
               | so indian and chinese new grads ?
        
             | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
             | And also Eastern European or ex-USSR countries where
             | highschool STEM curriculum is more difficult than in the
             | west and participation in STEM competitions and olympiads
             | is encouraged for kids.
             | 
             | We had to solve binary and hex division and multiplication
             | on paper for exams and study Dijkstra's algoritm and binary
             | tree traversal in highschool CS. Ugly stuff for a bunch of
             | 16 year olds who just wanted to make Flash games. Really
             | made me hate CS.
        
               | BeetleB wrote:
               | > We had to solve binary and hex division and
               | multiplication on paper for exams
               | 
               | This is not ... hard. It's the same logic as decimal
               | multiplication/division on paper.
               | 
               | > study Dijkstra's algoritm and binary tree traversal in
               | highschool CS
               | 
               | That's more like it!
        
               | foobarian wrote:
               | This was poked fun at in ex-YU:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmrJQaj8sIo&t=240s
               | (sorry, no translation; tl;dr: CS without computers)
        
               | Tade0 wrote:
               | Eastern European here. From the mentioned I had binary
               | division, but that was it.
               | 
               | I was solving leetcode-adjacent problems for the entire
               | last year of high school in preparation for the final
               | exam though.
        
       | dom96 wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/2h3t7
        
       | throwaway34237 wrote:
       | I wonder what freeze means in this context (paywalled so couldn't
       | see if there was additional context) because I just received a
       | third followup email from a recruiter at Meta..
        
       | disabled wrote:
       | Perhaps Zuckerberg should be paid significantly less? Perhaps
       | Facebook employees should fight back? Like protest or leak
       | controversial information, especially since Facebook is in the
       | data hoarding business?
       | 
       | But, stuff like this should make Facebook employees angry.
       | Zuckerberg is not a person to envy.
       | 
       | Read this: https://www.velvetropes.com/backstage/mark-zuckerberg-
       | house
       | 
       | Also, a few years ago Zuckerberg spent like $27 million for his
       | own personal security in a 365 day period, which is obviously
       | obscene.
       | 
       | Clearly he is a paranoid dude and certainly he keeps to himself.
       | 
       | But, he is a hardcore oligarch, that's for sure.
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | Also spent $20m+ for security during the pandemic/lockdown,
         | which the company pays for, while all us plebs sat at home.
        
         | m_ke wrote:
         | If that grinds your gears check these out:
         | 
         | - https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/tech/snapchat-evan-
         | spieg...
         | 
         | - https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/finance/brian-
         | armstrong-...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | yuan43 wrote:
       | > "I had hoped the economy would have more clearly stabilized by
       | now, but from what we're seeing it doesn't yet seem like it has,
       | so we want to plan somewhat conservatively," Zuckerberg said. A
       | Meta spokesperson declined to comment.
       | 
       | The economy _is_ stabilizing. It 's being weaned off of ultra-
       | loose money for the first time in years. The stock market is
       | starting to behave more rationally, demanding that a company
       | whose earnings potential is sinking and which offers no dividend
       | be valued accordingly.
       | 
       | > ... Meta had more than 83,500 employees as of June 30, and
       | added 5,700 new hires in the second quarter. ...
       | 
       | FWIW, 28 % annualized hiring growth for a company the size and
       | age of Meta is not normal. It's a sign of mismanagement and
       | especially loss of focus.
        
         | motbus3 wrote:
         | I agree with you. But I also think this companies have
         | potential for earning money. Real money. FB has incredible ai
         | models and platforms as well as interesting hw products. But
         | they keep pushing publicity for creepy projects such as their
         | second life version.
         | 
         | So what happens is that they have tons of fantastic things they
         | do not properly use.
         | 
         | I also think that media has chosen Zuckerberg to hit. Yeah.
         | Lots of contradictions etc, but if anything, he is not stupid.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | > The economy is stabilizing. It's being weaned off of ultra-
         | loose money for the first time in years. The stock market is
         | starting to behave more rationally, demanding that a company
         | whose earnings potential is sinking and which offers no
         | dividend be valued accordingly.
         | 
         | Agree with the latter part of your statement, but no way have
         | we hit "stability". Yes, taking away the ultra-loose money
         | policy had to happen, but doing so has perturbed the system and
         | it's going to take a while to stabilize.
        
         | beambot wrote:
         | A little dated [2018], but still rings true: The average tenure
         | for engineers at many major tech companies is ~3 years. Thus,
         | you'd expect new hires at a rate of 30% annually just to
         | maintain staffing levels. To determine headcount growth you,
         | should look at year-over-year changes in total employee count,
         | not just the number of new hires. TLDR: Meta's new-hire rate is
         | not atypical.
         | 
         | https://www.businessinsider.com/average-employee-tenure-rete...
        
           | dougmwne wrote:
           | In fact, the overall head count has been rising rapidly.
           | 
           | https://www.statista.com/statistics/273563/number-of-
           | faceboo...
        
           | tclancy wrote:
           | Based on my limited observations having been in a similar
           | situation for a year, I would guess the average tenure is
           | Equity Award Years less percentage of people who get fired in
           | less than the value of Equity Award Years.
           | 
           | It's a good way to keep reinventing wheels.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | > The economy is stabilizing. It's being weaned off of ultra-
         | loose money for the first time in years.
         | 
         | You might enjoy reading "Principles for Dealing with the
         | Changing World Order: Why Nations Succeed and Fail",
         | https://www.amazon.com/Changing-World-Order-Nations-Succeed-...
         | (The author is Ray Dalio, one of the US's best institutional
         | investors.)
         | 
         | The big question is, when are we going to hit bottom? We need
         | to make it through the Ukraine and Taiwan situations before
         | things really bounce back.
        
           | UncleOxidant wrote:
           | > and Taiwan situations
           | 
           | Let's hope we don't get a Taiwan situation on top of all of
           | the other stuff that's going on. That way lies WWIII.
        
             | ethbr0 wrote:
             | I expect that's the real reason for the US and Europe's
             | "all-in" hardline over Ukraine: signalling to China about
             | Taiwan.
             | 
             | Because pursuing a similar strategy with China would be
             | substantially more expensive, in terms of treasure and
             | blood, for both sides.
             | 
             | But the critical date there seems to be 2030-2035 based on
             | military preparations.
        
               | dougmwne wrote:
               | Absolutely. The entire thing is absolutely about China.
               | Russia is a broken country that would have no
               | significance beyond its hydrocarbons and nukes. China is
               | an economic superpower and growing world power. Very soon
               | it could replace the US as the primary driver of
               | globalism. If the west had shown itself as disunited, it
               | would have been time for China to take center stage in
               | world affairs for the next hundred years. Instead it will
               | wait for another generation.
        
               | eloff wrote:
               | China doesn't have another generation. They'll be going
               | into a very stark population collapse that's worse than
               | what Japan is experiencing now, where adult diapers
               | outsell baby diapers. I expect that China's economy and
               | influence will take the shape of an upside-down U, with
               | the peak in the next decade. If they're going to move on
               | Taiwan, they cannot wait forever. They came close to
               | catching up the US, but I don't think they will achieve
               | it.
        
               | mvuksano wrote:
               | Is there any other country that ever showed anything
               | other then upside-down U in terms of economy strength and
               | influence. To best of my knowledge every country, empire
               | or society rises and eventually falls. Probably the best
               | known example is Roman empire but every other society I
               | can think of exhibits same pattern.
        
               | dirtyid wrote:
               | China has multiple generations. Even "stark" demographic
               | collapse at PRC scale is generating millions of new
               | births per year (several times greater than US even with
               | immigration), there will never be shortage of bodies to
               | fill the military, especially increasingly small force
               | structure of modern militaries that's shifting towards
               | autonomous platforms. As for economy, expect PRC to
               | continue growing, more importantly, move up tech/value
               | chain and build comprehensive national power, just like
               | Japan did while her demographic was absolutely in the
               | shits because JP managed to massively improve human
               | capita via education to create the skilled workers for
               | high value economy (also SKR, TW). For reference PRC is
               | now outputting as much STEM talent as all OECD combined.
               | 
               | Like other the Asian Tigers with death spiral
               | demographics still grew significantly simply because
               | cohort of skilled workers increased massively even though
               | demographics broadly declined. There's a reason PRC is
               | rapidly moving up science and innovation indexes
               | (controlled for quality, not just citations). The reality
               | is, PRC demographics has never been MORE competitive, and
               | will increasingly be, because advanced economic
               | development phase is just getting started. Now add in PRC
               | is adopting as much industrial robots / automation than
               | the next 15 countries combined and that overall
               | demographic decline (as in net population decline) only
               | improves PRC strategic position by reducing import
               | dependence. And that the massive regional income
               | disparity + huge home ownership + enviable house hold
               | savings rate = PRC elderly simply don't have significant
               | expection (or need) for old age social support. In many
               | ways, PRC is almost optimized for weathering demographic
               | bomb with less social cost relative to properly developed
               | countries that are seeing comparable demographic decline.
        
               | dirtyid wrote:
               | That may very well be the intent, but it seems to be
               | backfiring. Go look at this very recent German Marshal
               | Fund survey polling atlanticist countries with section on
               | PRC invasion of TW.
               | 
               | https://www.gmfus.org/news/transatlantic-trends-2022
               | 
               | TLDR: negligible (average 4%) consider sending arms and
               | even less (average 2%) consider sending troops. As if
               | delivering either is possible to an island within
               | overwhelming PRC military advantage. US highest at 8%,
               | which is hilariously low given White House deterrence
               | efforts. 32% considers joint sanctions. 35% only
               | diplomatic efforts to end conflict. 12% do nothing. PRC
               | is looking at these numbers and rubbing hands with glee.
               | 
               | Also consider UKR/RU conflict is already putting EU
               | competitiveness into the shits with trend likely to
               | continue. Pre-war PRC was worried about EU acting as
               | potential spoiler via US coordination, but now EU is so
               | weak that they're even more geopolitically irrelevant.
               | Meanwhile PRC gets dependable energy partner in RU and
               | increased influence in central Asia / MENA / global south
               | who sees the hypocrisy in western response when a western
               | country is attacked. India is even more reticent about
               | militarizing QUAD. JP economy is going to shits, even if
               | they wanted to increase military spending, they likely
               | can not afford to.
               | 
               | Also notice youth are substantially less PRC. In 2030+
               | time frame, we're like to going to see extremely war
               | wearing societies with polity shifting less anti-PRC at
               | all cost, digging out of economic cesspit who will have
               | even less appetite to sanction a much larger trading
               | partner like PRC. These signalling are having less and
               | less impact coming as EU weakens. As for US, PRC factored
               | in US intervention in TW scenario anyway. It's not
               | deterred but building up massive nuclear arsenal to
               | follow RU's nuclear coercion strategy.
        
           | thecoppinger wrote:
           | Seconding this, I'm reading the book at the moment and it's
           | an exceptional insight into the near and long term future.
           | It's also terrifying.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | And they don't even create (and then quickly retire) random new
         | product. Do they? What would be Meta's equivalent of Stadia?
        
           | typeofhuman wrote:
           | Oculus
        
             | polyomino wrote:
             | Oculus is a much bigger investment than Stadia
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | And Facebook didn't create it either
        
               | arbitrary_name wrote:
               | Nor did they retire it, they rebranded it.
        
           | cl0ckt0wer wrote:
           | IGTV
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/5/22710638/instagram-tv-
           | igt...
        
         | thr0wawayf00 wrote:
         | > It's a sign of mismanagement and especially loss of focus.
         | 
         | I think it's a natural symptom of running a company built on
         | exploiting people's desire to craft and control their own
         | image. It's corporate narcissism. Zuckerberg has been
         | invincible for so long, how could he not be consumed by the
         | reality distortion field himself?
        
           | defterGoose wrote:
           | Ooh, careful saying anything negative about social media or
           | tech companies here. /s
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | That's one of the easiest way to get upvoted here,
             | especially wrt Meta.
        
         | itsoktocry wrote:
         | >*The economy is stabilizing.*
         | 
         | The economy is never "stable". It is constantly in a cycle of
         | ups and downs, over-investment and under-investment, easy money
         | and tight money...
         | 
         | The current state is no more "normal" than any other period.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | Zero is a special value you know, since zero times anything
           | is zero.
           | 
           | Edit: Except infinity ...
        
             | bjornsing wrote:
             | In the limit 0*x tends to zero as x tends to infinity.
        
             | lavp wrote:
             | An infinite amount of nothing is still nothing.
        
         | galaxyLogic wrote:
         | See also: https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2022/09/28/meta-
         | ordered-t...
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | > _The economy is stabilizing._
         | 
         | The economy is in the early phases of the biggest Fed
         | tightening since at least the 1980s.
         | 
         | If you know where that will end up, congrats. For the rest of
         | us, it's very much uncharted waters.
        
         | colinmhayes wrote:
         | > which offers no dividend be valued accordingly.
         | 
         | FWIW Meta has apparently done $15 billion in buybacks this year
         | which gives them a 4% yield at current cap. Investors generally
         | prefer buybacks to dividends because of tax advantages, so this
         | should actually have helped their stock more than a 4% div
         | yield would.
        
       | bin_bash wrote:
       | Haven't they already been in a freeze since this spring? Or did
       | they come out of it for a bit?
        
       | saos wrote:
       | > In prior moves to reduce spending, a dual-camera watch the
       | company was building to compete with the Apple Watch was
       | shuttered.
       | 
       | loool
       | 
       | > Meta is not the only advertising company to be hit by broader
       | economic challenges.
       | 
       | interesting they are referenced as advertising company..
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | Is it ?
         | 
         | https://www.statista.com/statistics/267031/facebooks-annual-...
         | 
         | https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093781/distribution-of-...
         | 
         | Meta and Google are advertising companies, their "products" are
         | just a way to:
         | 
         | - gather data: whatsapp/messenger, maps, youtube,
         | "like"/"share" buttons, reviews &c.
         | 
         | - display ads: google search, youtube, instagram, fb feed
         | 
         | - display a "buy" button: google search, youtube, instagram
         | 
         | The only "new" products they don't shutdown after a year are
         | products that allows them to gather more data / show more ads /
         | get more "buy" clicks. Everything else get terminated no matter
         | what
        
       | Ozzie_osman wrote:
       | Our startup spends a little bit on Facebook Ads (across FB,
       | Instagram, etc). It's very clear over the past few months that
       | there's trouble in the ads engine. Attribution is a mess, ad
       | efficiency fluctuates randomly, the UI and API are flaky. I don't
       | know whether this is a result of the ios privacy changes, the
       | broader economy affecting ad spend, or internal issues... Maybe a
       | mix. But it's clear that Meta's main revenue engine is a complete
       | mess at the moment.
       | 
       | PS it's not just us. We've seen industry-wide data showing that
       | it's a broader issue.
        
         | boringg wrote:
         | iOS privacy has killed facebook advertisements. Meta is dealing
         | with it currently - so are all small businesses who relied on
         | good conversion from their ad targeting that has gone to isht
         | since then.
         | 
         | Apple will probably fill in that void at some point they've got
         | a lock on all that intelligence. I'm curious how long it will
         | take and how they will manage to do it without stepping on
         | privacy toes.
        
           | spaceman_2020 wrote:
           | The high price of Apple products in markets like India was
           | such a great targeting filter for D2C products by itself.
           | There was a time in 2020-21 when you could literally throw
           | any random ad for a premium product, choose iPhone users as
           | your target, and land wild conversions.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | > Apple will probably fill in that void at some point
           | 
           | a) what if they don't? Why should they?
           | 
           | b) I would lose a lot of trust in Apple if they did. I don't
           | buy iOS devices because I trust Apple Ads better. I buy them
           | because I can avoid ads better and my privacy doesn't get
           | shredded in the process.
           | 
           | c) Wouldn't that be a massive antitrust issue?
        
             | Infinitesimus wrote:
             | > what if they don't? Why should they?
             | 
             | They will because they are a for-profit company and there's
             | profit to be had. Apple will likely find a strong marketing
             | angle for their Ad network (won't be the first time they've
             | tried).
             | 
             | Selling hardware is a great business but it gets saturated
             | eventually. The next move for eternal growth is selling
             | services on top of said hardware.
             | 
             | > I would lose a lot of trust in Apple if they did. I don't
             | buy iOS devices because I trust Apple Ads better. I buy
             | them because I can avoid ads better and my privacy doesn't
             | get shredded in the process.
             | 
             | Apple already has a lot of data about you. Consider that
             | they own both the hardware and software experience on an
             | iPhone. I'm having a hard time seeing an alternative here
             | unless you have the time to manage your own phone OS...
             | 
             | > Wouldn't that be a massive antitrust issue?
             | 
             | Only if someone does something about it. I assume G and
             | Meta's lawyers are already working on arguments.
        
             | Ozzie_osman wrote:
             | Apple already is filling that void. If you run your ads on
             | third-party networks, you are beholden to Apple's privacy
             | rules. But if you run Apple Search Ads through, Apple
             | itself, a lot of the same rules don't apply and you get
             | targeting and attribution back.
             | 
             | A lot of advertisers are thus shifting their ad spend into
             | Apple.
        
               | r00fus wrote:
               | But this is just in the App Store, right? Not on web or
               | within iOS spotlight.
               | 
               | Honestly I don't use FB, but my wife does, and I can tell
               | you she spends about 1/100th the time in the Apple App
               | Store as FB.
               | 
               | I don't see Search Ads as having anywhere near the same
               | context.
        
               | Ozzie_osman wrote:
               | Yes, their inventory is smaller at the moment, but they
               | also show ads in News and Stock apps (note that those ads
               | are personalized and don't have an ATT prompt by
               | default.. so Apple apps don't have to play by the same
               | rules as others). My guess is they will continue to
               | expand inventory to other Apple apps (eg Maps, etc), but
               | whether they try to build a full-fledged ad platform
               | (where you can use Apple to buy ads in 3rd party apps) is
               | yet to be seen.. they'd definitely have to overcome a
               | backlash if they did that.
        
           | tomrod wrote:
           | If Apple doesn't, it seems a bit insane to miss the
           | opportunity.
           | 
           | Note that I strongly dislike adtech as a business model, but
           | my hat is off to their cunning marketing if Apple pulls it
           | off.
        
             | creato wrote:
             | As much as I can't stand any company involved here, if
             | apple does what you suggest it would be far more offensive
             | than any other supposed antitrust violations alleged over
             | the last few years.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | They have an advertising platform already, right?
             | 
             | Apple has been around for a while, they I wonder if the
             | company has some institutional 'survival instinct' that's
             | identified growing the ad platform become too much as long-
             | term unhealthy. It is a corrupting influence that makes the
             | consumer into the enemy, after all.
             | 
             | They've also managed to become incredibly huge while
             | somehow mostly dodging the eye of regulatory bodies.
             | Privacy could mess with that track record and I'm sure they
             | are aware of that fact.
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > iOS privacy has killed facebook advertisements
           | 
           | A problem I see with FB is that they don't control anything
           | on which they run. They run on stuff from their competitors:
           | it's either Google (Chrome / Android), Microsot (Windows /
           | Edge) or Apple (OS X / Safari / iOS).
           | 
           | Despite the downturn these three behemoths are still enjoying
           | a market cap in the trillion+. Meta is actually down to $360
           | bn. Meta controls neither the OS nor the browser.
           | 
           | They want to change that by having people switching en masse
           | to the Metaverse but I'm really not sure this is happening.
        
             | 411111111111111 wrote:
             | > _They want to change that by having people switching en
             | masse to the Metaverse but I 'm really not sure this is
             | happening._
             | 
             | The tech isn't even close to there yet.
             | 
             | Current gen VR tech demos sparks the imagination, and it's
             | definitely great for people that want to like it... But
             | that's not even close to good enough for mass adoption.
             | 
             | Their teased prototypes look like a solid upgrade, but it's
             | still not going to be enough.
             | 
             | Mobile procedures just don't have enough graphics power yet
             | and the one's we do have consume too much power. We're
             | missing several hardware breakthrough before mass adoption
             | becomes likely from my perspective as a VR headset owner.
             | 
             | It's probably gonna happen eventually, but not necessarily
             | with current tech.
             | 
             | Meta might succeed if it stays on the ball and keeps
             | pushing for centuries, but i don't think it's management
             | will do so.
        
               | ergocoder wrote:
               | I walked in oculus for like 10 minutes, and I puked. The
               | technology isn't ready.
        
               | q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote:
               | > centuries
               | 
               |  _Centuries_? I haven 't taken a close look at VR (though
               | I'm flirting with buying a headset soon, just for
               | kicks...) but I'd always assumed it was more like 10-25
               | years away.
               | 
               | What are the hardware breakthroughs that you think would
               | do it?
        
               | cbtacy wrote:
               | True lightfield display would be a start....
        
               | stephc_int13 wrote:
               | Brain implants. Or very light AR glasses.
        
               | magic_hamster wrote:
               | Are you going to be willing to install a brain implant
               | from Facebook? Dear God. It's like something out of a
               | dystopian movie. No amount of money will convince me to
               | do something like this, especially coming from Facebook,
               | but any corporation really.
               | 
               | Very light AR glasses can be an interesting proposition
               | but they will not provide the VR immersive experience.
               | 
               | I'm not sure what people expect from VR but it's not
               | Ready Player One and will not be for a very long time.
               | However, playing Half Life Alyx is quite phenomenal even
               | today on current hardware.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | stephc_int13 wrote:
               | I would bet money that Meta is going to fail
               | spectacularly at their attempt to build the metaverse.
               | 
               | And it will be fun to watch from the outside.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, I don't expect this endeavor to give
               | interesting fruits to humanity, but sometimes happy
               | accidents happen.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | galaxyLogic wrote:
               | This reminds me of what Apple did just before Web came to
               | the fore. They had something called HyperCard. Then they
               | had something called "Agents" for automating your online
               | activities. But neither of those platforms succeeded.
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | You know, I've been wondering what could possibly possess
             | Meta to be so, "FUCK YEAH, ALL IN MF'ERS!!!" about the
             | metaverse for a while now. This actually makes a lot of
             | sense; companies control the platforms we are on, which
             | then determines how we must operate (read: which prevents
             | us from invasively monitoring you as much as we'd like), so
             | why not control the full stack as people close more doors
             | on us?
             | 
             | I still think they are going to fail spectacularly there,
             | but I suppose I can't blame them for trying.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | Perhaps they shouldn't have bailed on making phones.
               | Android phone arena is still very messy and they could
               | just...have good hardware and a slick skin on Android and
               | probably make a go of it.
               | 
               | I know I'm armchairing the devil so to speak but I think
               | this would have been a good long term play for them, but
               | I imagine their expertise at the time was antithetical to
               | hardware.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Meta/Microsoft/Amazon all did not want to plow the
               | billions of dollars and years it takes to develop
               | hardware that can compete with iPhone and Android.
               | 
               | They bet that they did not need to, but unfortunately for
               | Meta, looks like they should have.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | Not even compete with Android, just build a better
               | Android phone, and sell it near cost (or at cost). Would
               | have given them troves of data I'm sure.
               | 
               | The muscle is around contract negotiation with the
               | carriers and co-opting those partnerships, but they had
               | the money to burn on this.
        
               | magic_hamster wrote:
               | Who in their right mind would buy a Facebook phone,
               | considering the neverending security issues, data leaks
               | and total disregard for user privacy?
        
               | graeme wrote:
               | It would tell if it was like one plus. Premium phone at a
               | discount. One plus has horrendous privacy issues
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | The same people that still use Facebook. Which is to say,
               | we could probably find a couple of billion people who
               | couldn't give two rats asses about all that, and just
               | want to respond to Aunt Nancy's political rants[1] in a
               | space where everyone can see.
               | 
               | [1] Or watch Feel Good Videos ABOUT People Spontaneously
               | HELPING Poor ANIMALS Trapped In A PREDICAMENT [2].
               | 
               | [2] That the people in question may or may not have put
               | them into.
        
               | r00fus wrote:
               | 7-10 years ago it would have sold. Especially if they
               | marketed is as "use FB as your address book".
        
             | losvedir wrote:
             | But Facebook is a platform unto itself. If it was still an
             | enjoyable product that everyone used, and connected to
             | their local interests and groups on, they could still have
             | great, targeted advertising I think. But people don't
             | really seem to use it much anymore in earnest, and their
             | targeting probably relied more on 3rd party scripts across
             | the Internet which are being restricted.
        
           | unity1001 wrote:
           | It defies description why they aren't bringing context-
           | sensitive ads back. They didn't follow you all around the
           | Internet, they were relevant in any given context, and you
           | felt less need to block them out mentally.
        
             | jjulius wrote:
             | I was more likely to click on context-sensitive ads. Most
             | targeted ads I see these days are for products that I've
             | already bought in the past few weeks, which just boggles my
             | mind.
             | 
             | Edit: Even today, I'm still seeing ads for a subwoofer that
             | I bought back in early August. Good going, Meta.
        
             | magic_hamster wrote:
             | I bet that showing ads based on context is somehow limited
             | to people being in that context (i.e. in a specific website
             | for instance), while being able to draw an audience from
             | the entirety of Facebook users (in the billions) is more
             | profitable.
        
         | s1k3 wrote:
         | Our CPIs have been absurd ever since the privacy changes. Meta
         | is fucked and I don't think people realize how much of an
         | effect this is going to have on the entire internet.
         | 
         | There are large downstream effects the iOS privacy changes are
         | having on mobile advertising and the viability of companies
         | that rely on mobile programmatic to bring people in the door.
        
         | rr888 wrote:
         | To me it looks like they tried to copy TikTok, with loads of
         | ads and turned a decent product into something no one wants to
         | use.
        
           | spaceman_2020 wrote:
           | They still dominate the Indian market simply because TikTok
           | is banned here.
           | 
           | While I don't undermine the spying potential of TikTok, the
           | ban was strangely timed - soon after a huge investment from
           | Facebook in India's biggest company (and one with tremendous
           | lobbying power). Only a handful of Chinese apps were banned,
           | even though majority of devices running them were Chinese as
           | well (and went unbanned).
           | 
           | Facebook very well would have lost the massive Indian market
           | as well without the TikTok ban.
        
         | UnpossibleJim wrote:
         | Do you think the Digital Markets Act in the E.U. had anything
         | to do with this?
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/24/technology/eu-regulation-...
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | They've gotten so damn greedy.
         | 
         | On the mobile app literally over half my feed is ads.
        
           | pvarangot wrote:
           | I use it on the browser to check one or two groups and on my
           | phone for events, it's a mess. On the groups I always want to
           | check for the most recent posts because it doesn't have a lot
           | of activity and besides countless things I've tried it always
           | wants to show the posts ordered with its algorithm. It's also
           | like:
           | 
           | post AD post AD post AD
           | 
           | I'm used to ads, I grew up watching cartoons and shows on
           | prime time old airwaves TV and listening to music on Top 50
           | radio shows. This is worse. No other media is as bad as
           | Facebook ad-wise and no other media is worse than what prime
           | TV and radio where in the 90s. They devolved.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | My feed is mostly not posts from people I know (for some
           | reason it has started sending me tiktok length clips of
           | standup comedians). Actually it is not so bad, some of the
           | clips are pretty funny, but I could get that sort of content
           | from tiktok or youtube I guess, I just happen to use the
           | facebook app because it is already installed.
           | 
           | Their fundamental advantage was network effect, I guess that
           | is dead now that like 1/5 posts I see is from a friend.
        
             | sjm-lbm wrote:
             | My understanding is that this is the strategy: the network
             | effect method for choosing what content you want (FB/Insta)
             | is getting beat by the "algorithm determines what you are
             | interested in" method for choosing what content you want,
             | so Facebook is pivoting to the latter.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Maybe Myspace should make a concerted push back into the
               | space Facebook has I guess decided to vacate.
               | 
               | It seems crazy to try and compete with Tiktok on their
               | home turf, they sound to have a pretty competent
               | implementation and Facebook has got to be about as nimble
               | as a barge at this point.
        
             | passion__desire wrote:
             | People have stopped posting on facebook. That's the reason
             | for increasing content from other sources.
        
               | Liuser wrote:
               | I suspect the reason why people have stopped posting is
               | because of increasing content from other sources. It's
               | definitely my reason.
               | 
               | It's a negative feedback loop.
        
           | spike021 wrote:
           | Meanwhile I constantly get ads for restaurants and other
           | businesses almost everywhere but the state I live in
           | (California).
           | 
           | I routinely get ads for Boston, NY, Japan, Taiwan, Germany.
           | 
           | I've been to NY and Japan but none of the other places. So I
           | don't think it's using my previous locations.
        
             | beckingz wrote:
             | It's really hard to configure FB to target actual locations
             | as opposed to people interested in those locations.
             | 
             | You've been to NY, so you're interested in NY, so FB will
             | make money fleecing restaurants in NY wasting their ad
             | money on you.
        
             | oceanplexian wrote:
             | If you work somewhere like Facebook, this is totally
             | unsurprising. There are probably thousands of engineers
             | writing yet-another-framework and working on the 100th re-
             | invention of the wheel for some random internal product
             | that users will never see. The engineers actually solving
             | business problems are almost always understaffed and under-
             | appreciated, hence why the product sucks.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | I don't know if there's any merit to this idea, but it seems
           | to me that saturation can become a real problem.
           | 
           | At this point skipping a story or feed ad in Instagram is
           | like a nearly instant reflex for me.
           | 
           | Plus, the programming on the recommendations is laughably
           | amateur for company as resourceful as Meta. If I interact
           | with an ad one time I'll see the same ad over and over for
           | days or weeks.
           | 
           | Sure, I was curious for a second, but it seems strange that
           | Meta can't tell that I'm not interested anymore just by
           | monitoring basic usage of the UI.
           | 
           | At the end of the day the advertiser is the one left paying
           | for these repeated ineffective ad impressions.
           | 
           | Somewhat related, I am a little surprised Meta hasn't tried a
           | Discord-like revenue model where paid annual memberships
           | bestow quality of life and cosmetic social status types of
           | benefits. Even if it wasn't their main source of revenue it
           | could at least diversify the business and lend some stability
           | to their revenue.
           | 
           | Facebook's revenue per user is less than $10. Discord charges
           | $99/year for Nitro. I feel like Meta has such a one-track
           | mindset on advertising that it doesn't consider different
           | revenue models for its businesses.
           | 
           | Meta spends a lot of time talking about the metaverse but
           | Discord is already the metaverse. Why isn't there a
           | subscription Meta Quest game pass with Discord-like social
           | features? It's a no-brainer.
           | 
           | Where's the "pro" paid version of Instagram? Why doesn't
           | Instagram sell subscription access to things like exclusive
           | camera filters, stickers, and editing tools?
           | 
           | I feel like the company is full of missed business
           | opportunities.
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | Actually, that's a real thing advertisers DO want.
             | 
             | It's called retargeting.
        
               | apendleton wrote:
               | > that's a real thing advertisers DO want
               | 
               | I think GP is talking about a more specific thing, and
               | it's one I experience all the time too: that I'll visit a
               | website briefly one time, by accident, or to satisfy some
               | curiosity, or look up the specifications on something I
               | already own, or to get a link to send to a friend, or
               | whatever other non-purchase reason, and then get shown
               | ads for their thing over and over and over again until
               | the end of time despite the fact that there's a 0% chance
               | that I will ever buy it.
               | 
               | I'm sure it's true that, in the general case, advertisers
               | want to show ads to customers multiple times, but in
               | these particular cases, they shouldn't want to show them
               | to _me_ -- I 'm definitely not going to buy the thing,
               | and they're wasting their money, and it seems like
               | Facebook ought to be able to better differentiate between
               | users like me who will definitely not convert and users
               | who might (like GP said: seems like there ought to be
               | detectable patterns in the way I do or don't engage with
               | the content that should signal my lack of interest).
        
             | magic_hamster wrote:
             | >At the end of the day the advertiser is the one left
             | paying for these repeated ineffective ad impressions.
             | 
             | If advertisers had a better option, Meta will have gone out
             | of business by next week.
        
           | dpkirchner wrote:
           | 49% ads, 49% content, 2% "news feed isn't available right
           | now" if I scroll too far (a couple dozen screens). Been like
           | this for ages.
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | What does it mean when attribution is a mess? Or efficiency
         | fluctuating?
         | 
         | Does this imply that Facebook is showing ads in places they
         | should not be, because they have inventory they cannot sell?
        
           | beckingz wrote:
           | Hard to confirm that your ads are converting, and wild
           | daily/weekly fluctuations in return on ad spend.
        
         | ssharp wrote:
         | I haven't done much with Facebook ads since 2019, but back then
         | the UI was a flaky, buggy mess. It was pretty terrible to work
         | with. At one point they had a "Power Editor" and then a simpler
         | ads interface. They combined these into one unified tool and it
         | was pretty rough.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | It should be both reassuring & unsettling to know that even
       | experts can't forecast the future. FB / Meta made two large stock
       | bybacks, one with cash and one with debt, at a very high premium.
       | 
       | Just in case you may feel bad for your investments, just remember
       | no one can forecast the future.
        
         | kobalsky wrote:
         | > FB / Meta made two large stock bybacks, one with cash and one
         | with debt, at a very high premium.
         | 
         | I don't know enough to understand if that is clearly a bad move
         | or if maybe they had a different strategy.
         | 
         | I mean if they wanted to buyback their own stock it seems that
         | they are not in a position to time the market. Waiting to buy
         | low feels like they are shorting themselves.
        
           | BbzzbB wrote:
           | They did heavy handed repurchases during the quarter where
           | they saw the first active user dip, before announcing it,
           | then barely did any in the following quarter after the stock
           | took a 40% dive. I'm still bullish Meta, but their capital
           | allocation with regards to buybacks was horrendous to say the
           | least.
        
       | moolcool wrote:
       | My heart goes out to anybody losing their job, but it's always
       | fantastic to see bad things happening to Meta.
        
         | kernel-dump wrote:
         | I wonder what the effects of Meta failing would have on
         | society? I can't think of competing social network for people
         | to migrate to. Would topic forums see a rise in popularity
         | again or would sites like Reddit draw in some of those users.
        
       | pinko wrote:
       | I wonder what this means for people I know with accepted offers
       | who haven't yet started.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | They should start looking for something else as a backup.
        
         | gen220 wrote:
         | Anecdotally (I have a friend in that situation), no impact as
         | confirmed by their in-house recruiter.
         | 
         | But it might depend on whether they were pre-allocated to a
         | team (which I understand is very rare, but it does happen).
        
         | moolcool wrote:
         | If I were you I would tell them to break off contact because
         | Meta is actively causing irreparable damage to society as we
         | know it.
        
           | filoleg wrote:
           | Yeah, and the reply they would receive from their friend
           | would be a polite request to touch grass.
           | 
           | People in the real world use instagram and whatsapp all the
           | time without any moral qualms. The main reason facebook as a
           | product is on a decline is because it is simply not
           | interesting to younger people anymore. And even then, FB
           | still manages to occasionally produce features that capture a
           | lot of the audience back. FB marketplace has been a great hit
           | in terms of replacing craigslist.
           | 
           | I am not a Meta employee, and have never been one. But the
           | hate hard-on some people on HN have against Meta just gets
           | really ridiculous at times. We decry echochambers on social
           | media all the time, but are perfectably comfortable falling
           | into ones of our own, without trying to understand how the
           | world outside is really like.
        
             | moolcool wrote:
             | I don't think "touch grass" is an appropriate response to
             | legitimate questions of professional ethics. Comments like
             | this are why I think ethics courses should be mandatory for
             | any CS or engineering degree.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | Stating "you should brake the contract because Meta is
               | causing irreparable damage to society" is not a
               | "legitimate question of professional ethics." It's like
               | saying "you should be rushing the capitol, because
               | democrats are causing irreparable damage to society by
               | stealing the election", and then claiming it was a
               | legitimate question of ethics of democracy. For both of
               | which, the suggestion to touch grass feels pretty
               | appropriate.
               | 
               | I agree with your take on ethics courses being mandatory
               | for CS or engineering college students though. It was
               | mandatory at my college, and I found it to be pretty
               | useful.
        
               | moolcool wrote:
               | Who is talking about breaking a contract? I said breaking
               | contact (with recruiters). Your example provides an
               | equivalency so false, I don't really know where to start
               | with it. If I were to alter your analogy it'd be closer
               | to: "Ghost your recruiter, don't work for the Biden
               | Whitehouse" which, if they actually _were_ evil, would be
               | a reasonable thing to say to a friend IMO.
        
       | worik wrote:
       | This is a well trodden path. They cannot grow forever, nor can
       | the economy. But investors will expect/want monotonic growth. In
       | profits if not in revenue
       | 
       | I expect Meta will be closing labs in the USA and opening them in
       | other, cheaper, English speaking companies.
        
       | petilon wrote:
       | > _"I had hoped the economy would have more clearly stabilized by
       | now.." Zuckerberg said._
       | 
       | Zuck is blaming the economy, but Meta's real problem is that
       | Apple tightened iOS privacy. Meta had built a business on
       | tracking people, and when iOS tightened privacy, Meta could not
       | target ads as effectively as before.
        
         | threatofrain wrote:
         | The economy is an issue, but the "fault" is not in the economy
         | or the CEO in that there is no fault. A business is not
         | responsible for retaining employees even if the economy is
         | strong. If we prescriptively believe that people _ought_ have
         | money to maintain a basic standard of living then we should
         | have the government provide this service using public money and
         | not private ad-funded money.
         | 
         | It is modern corporate style to have CEO's shed tears
         | (sometimes literally) to show that their cold calculations
         | actually have love behind them, but this is all just PR. We
         | should recognize Mark's statement for what it is -- standard
         | corporate PR. And we should offer such statements as much
         | respect as standard corporate verbiage deserves and not get
         | into the substance of the statements as there typically is
         | none.
        
         | dc-programmer wrote:
         | Stages of grief. First he blamed employees, now the economy..
        
           | SantalBlush wrote:
           | CEOs are collectively hammering these talking points about
           | the economy, pretending that it's 2008 all over again. They
           | want their workers scared.
           | 
           | The thing is, this isn't 2008, not by a long shot. They can
           | keep complaining, but the jobs numbers speak for themselves.
        
             | andsoitis wrote:
             | If you think the world's economy is in good shape, I have
             | an investment to sell you.
        
           | 1270018080 wrote:
           | Cancel culture is the only scapegoat left
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | What he meant was "I had hoped _our_stock_price_ would have
         | more clearly stabilized by now..."
         | 
         | They over-hired low[er] quality employees (by his own
         | admission) when the stock exploded in 2020. Now they'll do
         | anything to avoid official layoffs to save face.
        
         | otikik wrote:
         | And their feed is increasingly worse. We might be the product,
         | but this product can walk away.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | That was an interesting twist to the barn methaphor actually.
        
         | ilamont wrote:
         | Not the only problem. Zuck's betting the farm on VR, which is
         | sucking up resources and attention. Even if it reaches critical
         | adoption, how many years before it starts generating true
         | profit?
        
         | m00x wrote:
         | It's definitely a problem, but the economic downturn is a lot
         | more significant. Meta allegedly got around Apple's privacy
         | rules.
         | 
         | I used to work in user tracking, and it's very easy to track
         | people down to near-unique from several metrics.
        
         | nostromo wrote:
         | Apple tightening privacy while TikTok is eating their lunch...
         | Not to mention the Metaverse is/was a giant distraction.
        
           | kweingar wrote:
           | Not very relevant, but an observation:
           | 
           | I've noticed that users on HN like to use the phrase "eating
           | their lunch" to describe the dynamic between TikTok and
           | Facebook.
           | 
           | It would be interesting to search HN comments from the past
           | 12 months for "eating their lunch" and analyze what
           | proportion of them refer to TikTok.
        
           | wollsmoth wrote:
           | Metaverse is an interesting idea, but they're too quick to
           | hail it as the feature of the company imo. It just looks like
           | an expensive, boring, video game right now.
        
             | defterGoose wrote:
             | | Metaverse is an interesting idea...
             | 
             | It's really not though, nor is it an original one. There
             | are real people with real problems in the world and we've
             | seen over and over that increasingly virtualizing our
             | interactions, with a few exceptions, is a great way of
             | kicking those problems down the road.
        
               | wollsmoth wrote:
               | An idea can be interesting and still be a huge waste of
               | time. I don't think it'll end well for Meta. It'll be
               | super interesting to see how it plays out. I think we
               | might end up with some sweet VR tech, I just don't think
               | it's going to give FB the kind of business they think it
               | will.
        
       | drfuzzy89 wrote:
       | Is it known whether this sort of hiring freeze affects all
       | levels? I have a friend who's in-progress for a staff role at
       | Meta and I had heard in the past that staff was often "immune to
       | hiring freezes."
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | "Active interview loops will continue," but also "we will not
         | make any offers until the freeze is lifted." So, go figure.
         | 
         | Edit: IC7+ is explicitly not frozen.
         | 
         | > The only roles that will remain open are SWE IC7+, Data
         | Center roles, and 2023 Intern, Pathway and AI STE class hiring
        
           | laweijfmvo wrote:
           | Imagine being of IC7+ caliber and voluntarily deciding to
           | jump on this sinking ship. I doubt such a person exists.
           | Might be an opportunity to upsell yourself into an IC7[+]
           | offer, though.
        
             | zeroonetwothree wrote:
             | Money is still a good motivator
        
       | jvanderbot wrote:
       | My uneducated opinion is this company had some downsizing and
       | restructuring coming. But the leading edge of a big wave of
       | downsizes might look like this, too.
        
         | kansface wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm with you, and then I read 83K employees doing
         | Metaverse? Simply amazing! That must be at least 20 billion
         | dollars a year! The correction in the tech sector has plenty
         | more correcting to do it seems.
        
           | ryanwaggoner wrote:
           | That's the total Meta headcount, across Facebook, Instagram,
           | Messenger, WhatsApp, Oculus, etc.
        
           | orangepurple wrote:
           | Inverse QQQ?
        
             | selectodude wrote:
             | SQQQ is up 10 percent today.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | I doubt it.
         | 
         | My guess is Google/Alphabet will do the same, as they have too
         | high a proportion of people doing things that are neither basic
         | research or contributing to revenue in any way. You can see how
         | that can happen when you have an unconstrained gusher of money.
         | There's effectively zero feedback. However given the weakness
         | of their management (see: gusher of money + lack of focus) it's
         | unlikely that the cuts will make any difference either way.
         | Probably many good people will simply take a buy out and then
         | go get another interesting job.
         | 
         | Netfix? Given their culture and their market problems one could
         | imagine it, but their culture seems to have steered them into
         | trying to fight back. So probably not a big wave, just some
         | trimming, as they have already done.
         | 
         | As for the rest of maAMA-n? They appear to be doing fine;
         | Amazon's retail challenges are more than made up by AWS. Apple
         | and MS are trundling along as if nothing is happening in the
         | macroenvironment (and they each have 40+ years to have worked
         | out their systems).
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Please use "MANAMANA" instead.
           | 
           | (doot doo do doo doot)
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | Netflix never deserved to be in FAANG anyway -- seems like
             | it was just there to make the acronym work.
             | 
             | Therefore your suggestion sounds great!
             | 
             | How about: Microsoft Alphabet Netflix Apple Meta Amazon
             | Nvidia Alibaba
        
               | bagacrap wrote:
               | amd?
        
           | tempsy wrote:
           | Apple is down like 6% today on reports of soft iPhone sales.
           | In an economy where people are actually belt tightening
           | luxury hardware sales are not exactly recession proof
        
             | noir_lord wrote:
             | They also have a cash mountain and I'd like to own a
             | company that makes 94% of last years iphone sales.
             | 
             | Over 200bn the last time I saw a figure (90bn in cash, the
             | rest invested).
             | 
             | https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-
             | funds/sectors/sp500-compa...
        
               | tempsy wrote:
               | I'm not an Apple bear, I'm saying that it's a bit naive
               | to say that any company will not be negatively affected
               | by a recession that can result in downsizing or layoffs.
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | DOesn't matter how much cash they have. Ownership will
               | demand cuts if earnings fall.
        
           | spaceman_2020 wrote:
           | Netflix looks shaky as hell. They need a huge bet, like Rings
           | of Power or House of Dragons. The entire programming looks so
           | completely awful cookie cutter at the moment.
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | They are trying to make a play for games. Seems like a
             | market even more risky than films, but whatever.
        
               | azemetre wrote:
               | I'm shocked they don't do more merchandising, seems like
               | easy money since they know what shows are popular.
        
           | what_ever wrote:
           | > As for the rest of maAMA-n? They appear to be doing fine;
           | Amazon's retail challenges are more than made up by AWS.
           | Apple and MS are trundling along as if nothing is happening
           | in the macroenvironment (and they each have 40+ years to have
           | worked out their systems).
           | 
           | Apple -
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/18/23268953/apple-slow-
           | hirin...
           | 
           | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-16/apple-
           | lay...
           | 
           | Microsoft
           | 
           | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-20/microsoft.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/the-scoop-22
           | 
           | Amazon
           | 
           | https://www.protocol.com/newsletters/sourcecode/amazon-
           | slows...
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | I hope they don't restructure the fact checking team. Who would
       | protect us?
        
       | stephc_int13 wrote:
       | The initially planned expenses for the year were about $95B.
       | 
       | I know this is pretty common for those big corporations.
       | 
       | But I think that should be put in perspective.
       | 
       | At 500M over more than 10 years Star Citizen is considered a scam
       | or a waste of money and at least a proof of mismanagement.
        
       | drummer wrote:
       | Every dumpster fire, no matter how intense it burns, eventually
       | dies out.
        
       | juice_bus wrote:
       | What an awful way to announce that. Q&A is over folks, everyone
       | go back to their desk and start working again - good luck!
        
         | ccooffee wrote:
         | Such a poor plan. Dropping this in a Q&A means that nothing
         | else said will be remembered. It's also being implemented in a
         | completely asinine way: "individual teams will sort out how to
         | handle headcount changes". Take no culpability for anything,
         | and ensure that the confusion and anger targets the bottom-most
         | level of management. What a classy move!
        
           | n0us wrote:
           | I'm sure that senior leadership will also be held accountable
           | for the over-hiring they mandated and their teams will be
           | among the first to reduce headcount \s
        
         | jollyllama wrote:
         | I'm curious if there was a plant to say "hey are there going to
         | be layoffs."
         | 
         | "Well, Joe, it's funny you ask..."
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | they've been over zealous with their hiring for many years, this
       | was bound to happen during economic uncertainty. tack on
       | competition from tiktok, failing metaverse, privacy and political
       | related scandals, and there you have it: a sinking ship
        
       | ceejayoz wrote:
       | Well, guess that means the multi-year bugs in their API aren't
       | getting fixed any time soon.
        
       | woeirua wrote:
       | Zuck is absolutely going to call back all the remote engineers
       | that he hired over the past two years to the office, and just
       | like with Tesla, those who refuse will be involuntarily
       | separated. Work from home, _is_ going to die at the megacorps.
        
         | UncleMeat wrote:
         | This is my fear at Google. I'm now remote for family reasons.
         | If for some reason they decide to do layoffs the "cut the
         | remote staff" approach might feel attractive for foolish execs.
        
           | rosywoozlechan wrote:
           | Lots of smaller companies that have comparable compensation
           | will continue to offer work from home. If a non-FANG position
           | isn't a dealbreaker for you, you can do just fine if Google
           | does end up requiring everyone to go back to the office.
        
         | chrisco255 wrote:
         | Meta already did this / have been doing this. But I think Meta
         | will suffer more from this choice than the employees let go as
         | a result.
        
           | erikpukinskis wrote:
           | "The Metaverse Company" declaring that they need employees to
           | be physically in the same office would be a damning admission
           | of failure.
        
       | blinded wrote:
       | passed the code and debugging challenge a month ago. recruiting
       | emails have gone cold, figured this was the case.
        
       | arberx wrote:
       | Tech is reflexive. Since most tech/saas companies sell/support
       | other saas companies, they all go down.
       | 
       | Think about all the startups who rely on AWS, Apple computers,
       | and Facebook ads. What happens when they all die?
       | 
       | The tech bull run is over, and we'll find out where the bodies
       | lie soon.
        
         | dimgl wrote:
         | This is really hyperbolic. Facebook is not even closely
         | comparable to those. Additionally, there's no market indication
         | that won't be a need for services like AWS or hardware provided
         | by Apple.
         | 
         | It's really weird how many people seem to _want_ the tech
         | industry to just wither and die. It's unlikely and unrealistic.
         | There may be a sharp correction, but it's unrealistic to think
         | that the behemoths with a moat are going anywhere.
        
           | arberx wrote:
           | No one said anything about tech dying (I said startups), but
           | a repricing for sure.
           | 
           | We don't even know the market demand for these products
           | because cheap money has made everyone a startup founder, and
           | every company pivoted to providing a "tech" solution when it
           | might not have been economically viable or provided any
           | profit.
        
             | andsoitis wrote:
             | > No one said anything about tech dying (I said startups)
             | 
             | You wrote: "Since most tech/saas companies sell/support
             | other saas companies, they all go down."
        
           | lallysingh wrote:
           | AWS is healthy. Apple is effectively immortal, but will
           | slowly commoditize (10+ yrs) from lack of innovation.
           | 
           | Meta/Goog are (eng staff wise) oversized for their output.
           | Both of their leaderships aren't leading very well.
           | 
           | Despite the hype and capabilities offered, none of the big
           | players have find ways to use their AI assets. That's a poor
           | indicator of their future. You can almost smell the
           | disruption coming..
        
             | bllguo wrote:
             | good point, other than applications in adtech for google/fb
             | the only big tech company that is actually doing something
             | with their ML expertise is nvidia IMO
        
         | flyinglizard wrote:
         | Where exactly do you advertise your blue collar business if not
         | on a Meta or Google property?
         | 
         | They don't sell tech. They use tech. They sell ads.
         | 
         | I do agree that the bull run for companies that sell tech will
         | subside, maybe over correcting in the short term.
        
           | troon-lover wrote:
        
         | ianbutler wrote:
         | Oh no the market has corrected to 2019 levels because the
         | ridiculous amount of free cash has stopped! Clearly the era of
         | tech is over and we should all wrap up and go home.
         | 
         | I don't think there is anything substantial here to suggest
         | this is anything other than a normal recession and even if this
         | was like the dotcom bubble, these companies aren't like dotcom
         | era startups. They're massive behemoths intertwined with the
         | fabric of American society, not to mention their warchests make
         | most other companies blush.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | 2005 was a pretty shitty time to be in software. I could do
           | without another one of those. If we avoid that level of suck
           | for another 10 years I can just take early retirement.
        
           | time_to_smile wrote:
           | > I don't think there is anything substantial here to suggest
           | this is anything other than a normal recession
           | 
           | Then I'm guessing you haven't been paying much attention to
           | anything.
           | 
           | Have you seen what's happening in the bond market these days?
           | Looked at the insane actions the BoE is taking coupled with
           | their insane tax policy? Have you seen the rising dollar are
           | you aware the threat that makes to the entire global credit
           | system?
           | 
           | This is literally just getting started.
        
             | ianbutler wrote:
             | I don't know that I'm particularly concerned about the UK
             | causing a global economic crisis. I am aware of what's
             | happening with them, I'm currently vacationing in Ireland
             | so it's been on the news but I just don't know that the UK
             | will be anything to cause larger global consequence.
             | 
             | I was not aware of the US bond market crumbling, and having
             | a quick read it doesn't seem to be, it seems to be a
             | consequence of the fed raising rates which will obviously
             | not continue indefinitely.
             | 
             | To be honest it still seems like a normal recession but
             | with a bunch of hyperbolic news headlines attached.
        
         | time_to_smile wrote:
         | The downvote arrow as slowly become a "truths I don't want to
         | hear" button on HN.
         | 
         | Too much cheap money and a grow at any costs mentality has lead
         | to exactly this is problem where every tech company is very
         | tightly coupled with every other tech company.
         | 
         | I'm in the B2B space for one of the many non-profitable,
         | recently IPO'd companies. As far as companies goes, this one is
         | pretty sane. Healthy growth, a product that makes sense,
         | thoughtful leadership. However when I look at our customers the
         | vast majority are small tech startups, many of which will
         | obviously cease to exist in a down turn.
         | 
         | When I look at our spending, it's mostly to other larger tech
         | companies, those big tech companies everyone wants to work for.
         | 
         | But those small startups, that have weird products that don't
         | make sense, price sensitive customers, unsustainable growth and
         | crazy leadership, they make up a huge amount of our revenue.
         | When they start to collapse, we'll have to downsize, both in
         | headcount and in services we pay for. And we won't be alone.
         | 
         | On top of that, I look at my own spending. My other tech
         | friends and I have no problem paying what would have been crazy
         | amounts for services like Door Dash, or a constant stream of
         | slightly over price but so convenient stuff from Amazon. Why
         | not subscribe to another streaming services, it's only
         | $10/month. So many of these direct to consumer companies mostly
         | exist because of highly paid techworkers that have more cash
         | than they need.
         | 
         | I get laid off I'll just pick up my food myself, I'm not going
         | to be ordering everything of Amazon, I'm cancelling all but my
         | most active subscriptions.
         | 
         | There are a lot of positive feedbacks in the current tech
         | ecosystem what will continue to be triggered and continue to
         | bring down the massive, massive tech bubble we're in.
        
       | uladzislau wrote:
       | It's not just Meta, many other companies are on the hiring
       | freeze. Probably the reason is not fulfilled Covid period bets on
       | growth and expansion.
        
       | SwSwinger wrote:
       | Somehow, Meta managed to overhire in low cost of living areas and
       | will likely look at employee overhead when considering where to
       | downsize.
        
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