[HN Gopher] The Banality of Surveillance
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       The Banality of Surveillance
        
       Author : commonreader
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2022-09-29 20:45 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bostonreview.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bostonreview.net)
        
       | Joel_Mckay wrote:
       | Despotism is lucrative for those on the right end of the
       | information asymmetry.
       | 
       | Fundamentally, the phenomena occurs in cycles in areas where
       | communities lack mutual respect, income inequality is high, and
       | regulatory capture of information is monetized/weaponized.
       | 
       | The networks simply made it cheaper to squeeze the vulnerable,
       | and extend the cycle by a few decades.
       | 
       | While unsustainable sociologically or economically, every
       | individual must make a conscious decision at some point... to
       | serve a king... or walk to a better life someplace less foolish.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > Despotism is lucrative for those on the right end of the
         | information asymmetry.
         | 
         | Everything is lucrative for those on the right end of
         | information asymmetry. It's really the fundamental theory of
         | capitalism.
        
           | Joel_Mckay wrote:
           | Which monopoly character told you that? ;)
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | The US might well not be a "real" democracy by some measure but
         | it's not a despotism by any means - a variety of powerful
         | forces are contending against each other.
         | 
         | I mean, the US has surveillance, had surveillance in the 1960s
         | when income inequality was relatively low and it had
         | surveillance in the 1920s, when income inequality was more
         | similar to today.
         | 
         | This stuff isn't a recipe for some _future_ dictatorship, it 's
         | part and parcel of the way power works right now and has worked
         | for a while.
        
           | Joel_Mckay wrote:
           | As a foreigner doing business in the US, one needs to
           | understand there is zero protection under the laws for non-
           | citizens. If you have something someone wants, than you must
           | expect professional thieves will show up before any division
           | head.
           | 
           | One can't take it personally, as the price of admission is
           | high for that show.
           | 
           | I find it amusing that you thought I was alluding to the USA,
           | as the work was based on another historical democratic
           | republic.
        
       | tuatoru wrote:
       | > to diffuse a bomb
       | 
       | If even the Boston Review's subeditors don't know the difference
       | between "diffuse" and "defuse"... well, English is going to
       | change a lot in the next couple of decades. It will get a lot
       | more ambiguous.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Technically, wouldn't detonation of a bomb "diffuse" it?
         | 
         | I hope that's not what they meant, though!
        
         | reidjs wrote:
         | In the context I think it's clear what they mean.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | In contacts, it's probably pretty clear what I mean here,
           | too. A lot of incorrect things become interpretable when
           | viewed in contacts.
        
             | BLKNSLVR wrote:
             | Your loosing you're mined.
        
           | karamanolev wrote:
           | Does it matter with regards to the above comments? In this
           | context, right now, it's clear. As we start losing track of
           | the precise meaning of words, we'll get an increasing
           | population size that doesn't even know the alternative
           | exists. It's inevitable to then start using them in contexts
           | where both spellings/meanings are valid and using the wrong
           | one results in confusion.
        
             | pkage wrote:
             | I'm not sure pearl-clutching about losing the meaning of
             | words is appropriate, it seems like a small mistake from
             | the editing team slipped through.
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | They're phonetically identical in most dialects so no
             | meaning was confused here, it's a simple transcription
             | error.
             | 
             | The way you say "spelling/meaning" implies you think
             | they're the same thing but they just absolutely are not, as
             | much as that pains pedants sometimes.
             | 
             | If you think otherwise you're mistaken about very basic and
             | long-confirmed foundations of linguistics, like whether
             | meaning derives from the spoken form or the writing system.
        
             | BalinKing wrote:
             | That's just how languages evolve; there's nothing
             | particularly dangerous about it. (Besides, I really doubt
             | there are many scenarios where "diffuse" and "defuse" could
             | reasonably be confused.)
        
               | BLKNSLVR wrote:
               | Devolves. If meaning is abstracted by multiple words
               | spelt different ways and context specific understanding
               | is required, then there will be a greater cognitive load
               | to reach 'understanding' and the language will move away
               | from it's goal of conveying meaning.
               | 
               | This is a long tail, but it's not like we've only just
               | started down it.
               | 
               | I actually find misspelling and bad phraseology to judge
               | how seriously I should take a person's opinion, though
               | factored in amongst other things (if it's obvious that
               | English is their second language, or if their field of
               | expertise may be one that eschews language skills, for
               | example).
        
               | giraffe_lady wrote:
               | There is no language that isn't effective at conveying
               | meaning, because doing that is fundamental to what
               | language _is_.
               | 
               | People have been complaining and worrying about this
               | since, literally, the beginning of recorded history. Our
               | language is much "devolved" specifically in the ways many
               | of them were worried about, and yet we are still having
               | this conversation in it. You might not like how it tastes
               | in your mouth but it'll still work fine for the needs we
               | have of it, as all languages always have.
        
               | smolder wrote:
               | People say this evolution thing about language frequently
               | but not all changes are positive for a languages utility,
               | clearly. It can get better and it can get worse. When
               | words start meaning their opposite and then consequently
               | nothing, like with "literally", that's evolving away from
               | usefulness.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | Stuff happens, people make mistakes, innocuous stuff like that
         | slips through sometimes. I really don't know that I'd take this
         | long-term view of the English language based on a single typo
         | in the Boston Review, but then again I'm also not sure if that
         | comment is missing a "/s".
        
       | IntFee588 wrote:
       | > During World War II military scientists invented the
       | transistor, a semiconductor device that paved the way for
       | miniature recording devices smaller than sugar cubes and thinner
       | than postage stamps to flood espionage markets.
       | 
       | This goes against common knowledge (that the FET was first
       | invented by Lilienfeld in the 1920s, and that the germanium
       | transistor was invented by Bardeen and Brattain at Bell Labs in
       | the 1940s). Points to anyone that can produce evidence to support
       | this claim that it was invented during WWII.
       | 
       | Friendly reminder that nothing sent over public internet
       | infrastructure without additional security measures is truly
       | private. Also, pardon Snowden.
        
       | verisimi wrote:
       | > The protagonists of state-sanctioned surveillance are
       | cybersecurity experts hacking into smart phones' operating
       | systems from a suburban office park, Microsoft engineers refining
       | a biometric camera's algorithm from their home office, and plain-
       | clothes soldiers parsing through geolocation data for someone
       | else to carry out a drone strike.
       | 
       | I think it's more banal than that - Google, M$, Facebook etc
       | probably allow direct access to whatever agencies, no tinkering
       | required. Let's not forget Google was funded by inqtel, and
       | Facebook started the same day Darpa's Lifelog ended.
        
         | paganel wrote:
         | WhatsApp's acquisition by FB (which seemed over-priced at the
         | time, mind you) involved a boutique investment bank called
         | Allen & Company, which acted as an advisor for FB [1]. That
         | bank had as a managing director back in 2008 a certain George
         | Tenet [2], a former director of the CIA. From that same wiki
         | section, and related to the topic at hand:
         | 
         | > Tenet is also on the boards of directors of L-1 Identity
         | Solutions, a biometric identification software manufacturer.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303636404579397...
         | 
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tenet#Later_life
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | It seems very likely that surveillance involves both talking to
         | Facebook and hacking on one's own these days. If a local police
         | department (or an obscure agency or a contractor) can
         | successfully hack someone's phone, such action has the
         | advantage that neither the Feds nor Facebook or whoever has to
         | know about it.
         | 
         | It's reasonable to say that surveillance channels are power and
         | by that token, everyone wants a channel that's as much under
         | their sole control as possible. And no one wants another
         | Snowden, even if Snowden probably didn't change things
         | fundamentally, he gave the NSA a big black eye and I'd suspect
         | image is important to these agencies as well.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | Not sure why it's downvoted. They are all a part of PRISM,
         | according to Snowden revelation. And they collect too much
         | data.
        
         | gnopgnip wrote:
         | The stored communications act prohibits companies from sharing
         | email and similar messages without a warrant, and prohibits
         | sharing information from remote computing services without a
         | subpoena. This is not to say that it never happens that
         | information is shared illegally, but the US is one of very few
         | countries where illegally collected evidence is inadmissible,
         | and so is "fruit of the poisonous tree", any other evidence
         | collected based on this illegal evidence.
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | It is possible there are secret dicta that supercede
           | legislation, and anyway, laws are only as good as their
           | enforcement, so there are many ways for the government to act
           | as if that law doesn't exist and face zero pushback or
           | repercussions.
           | 
           | It is not in your best interest to assume good faith on the
           | part of potentially bad actors.
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | You are being downvoted, but I will give an example that is not
         | controversial, is ( or at least should be ) openly known and
         | currently in operation. In Canada, which does have much
         | stronger privacy protections than US, RMCP can get information
         | directly from Fintrac under the umbrella of partnership.
         | 
         | While there is no direct evidence that Google et al, allows for
         | the type of access you describe, I find it less and less
         | unlikely these days.
        
         | naithan wrote:
         | Yeah, I rely on a Chromebook for most of what I do, and I
         | sometimes wonder if US spy agencies have backdoor access to
         | Google servers or even their mobile operating systems.
        
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