[HN Gopher] Former NSA Employee Arrested on Espionage-Related Ch...
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       Former NSA Employee Arrested on Espionage-Related Charges
        
       Author : jc_811
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2022-09-29 21:11 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.justice.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.justice.gov)
        
       | starik36 wrote:
       | Does FBI catch actual criminals anymore? It seems that every
       | success of theirs consists of finding a weak minded individual,
       | talking him into doing something illegal, maybe even supplying
       | him with weapons or some other incriminating evidence, then
       | arresting him a couple of weeks later.
       | 
       | Do they have some sort of quota of how many terrorist they need
       | to catch a year in order to get a bonus?
        
       | wil421 wrote:
       | Has there ever been a case where two undercover agents are trying
       | to play the other one? Not knowing each other are agents.
       | 
       | Or a situation where the guy who an undercover agent approaches
       | tells his superiors? Who then want him to go undercover to find
       | out who the suspected foreign agent works for.
       | 
       | I'm sure this can happen in government.
        
         | sgjohnson wrote:
         | > Has there ever been a case where two undercover agents are
         | trying to play the other one? Not knowing each other are
         | agents.
         | 
         | It has happened several times with cops.
         | 
         | Feds are a bit more professional I believe.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | Probably no upper bound on IQ for FBI agents
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | Yea I was specifically thinking the feds due to them being a
           | large bureaucracy. No doubt the local cops have done it.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | There was an Air Force counterintelligence agent who was caught
         | spying for Iran.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Witt
        
         | frogblast wrote:
         | I recall a news story from a few years ago (can't find it
         | now)...
         | 
         | There was once a bank that looked the other way when lots of
         | shady cash came in, allowed transfers of those amounts to to
         | foreign banks, basically ignored KYC rules, etc. Word got
         | around, and lots of criminals all over started using this bank
         | for all of their money laundering purposes.
         | 
         | Some banking authority started noticing a lot of suspicious
         | transactions, and was preparing to shut the whole thing down,
         | disconnect the bank from all transfers, raid offices, arrest
         | employees, trumpet press releases about how they're protecting
         | the American financial system, etc... (ie, exactly what they
         | are supposed to do).
         | 
         | The bank was, of course, a honeypot run by some other 3-letter
         | agency, who was actively facilitating money laundering in order
         | to collect enormous amounts of info about who was involved.
         | 
         | (basically the banking version of that 'encrypted phone'
         | scheme).
         | 
         | The raids were mere hours away when someone put two and two
         | together, and managed to get it called off.
        
         | dkokelley wrote:
         | I want to see a movie where a major criminal organization is
         | completely overrun by undercover agents of various
         | governments/agencies, but none of them know it so they keep the
         | organization running for fear of being found out. The true
         | criminals have long since retired.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | It's a bit of a spoiler but you may like the film "The
           | Accountant" starring Ben Affleck.
           | 
           | Also the Book "A Scanner Darkly" by Philip K Dick which (no
           | spoiler) explores the consequences of deep undercover.
        
             | echelon_musk wrote:
             | While we're here, why not also the excellent Deep Cover [0]
             | with Larry Fishburne and Jeff Goldblum.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104073/
        
           | d0mine wrote:
           | There is a real example when a government spy actually led a
           | terrorist organization: "Azef, a double-agent in the employ
           | of the Tsarist secret police Okhrana, changed the Terrorist
           | Brigade's mode of attack from firearms to dynamite"
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Combat_Organization
        
           | jerrysievert wrote:
           | not a movie but there's a classic get smart episode where all
           | of the kaos agents captured turn out to be government agents.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | See "The Man Who Was Thursday" by G. K. Chesterton.
        
         | yieldcrv wrote:
         | This happened on the Silk Road case.
         | 
         | Part of the reason they never tried Ross Ulbricht for the hit
         | jobs is because a rogue FBI office in Baltimore was staging the
         | hits in a studio (the evidence to show Ross, to get the rest of
         | the payment), and the FBI office in Chicago also investigating
         | Silk Road was like "why are you guys roleplaying, this can't be
         | as cringy as it looks, what is going on in Maryland", and the
         | Secret Service and DEA agents were roleplaying as moderators on
         | Silk Road and creating fake controversy to both Ross Ulbricht
         | and the FBI offices investigating, just so the Secret Service
         | and DEA could extort Ross (for the fake hits) and ride off into
         | the sunset with the money, landing a movie deal with Fox.
         | They're in jail now. And the hitman stuff was dropped under
         | equally fake pretexts just to save face.
         | 
         | The Secret Service and DEA agent were being tried at the same
         | time as Ross Ulbricht was, this information and evidence was
         | kept from Ross and his trial and only came to light afterwards.
         | Wasn't accepted in the appeal. Sentencing didn't factor any of
         | this in either. Embarrassing case.
         | 
         | https://www.vice.com/en/article/8q845p/dea-agent-who-faked-a...
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | I find it hilarious that he got hired to a security oversight
       | position, started trying to sell his employers' property off the
       | back of a truck, and became the target of a FBI sting operation
       | all in the space of 3 weeks. How naive do you have to be to think
       | that you're not being closely scrutinized, both because it's the
       | freaking NSA and because you're within the normal probation
       | period for a new job?
       | 
       | Perhaps a worse punishment than the inevitable long prison term
       | is the fact that this guys entire trip through the alimentary
       | canal of our criminal justice system is going to have a
       | continuous laugh track.
        
         | ikiris wrote:
         | The part that amazes me is someone this _stupid_ made it
         | through the hiring process.
        
           | aliqot wrote:
           | Underachieving stoners with IT degrees just laughing all the
           | way to the bank... and then the dispensary.
        
             | koolba wrote:
             | They used to drug test but I think that was too restrictive
             | to their inbound funnel.
        
             | BobbyJo wrote:
             | NSA probably wishes they could hire stoners.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | Clearly should have been hired as a pen tester, not security
         | oversight
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | Now we wait for the FBI to get involved, take custody of the
       | evidence, and for one of them to start stealing They do it far
       | more often, or at least get caught more often, than the NSA.
       | 
       | FBI/NSA/etc are just government backed criminals.
        
       | MarchKilroy89 wrote:
       | This affidavit is a laugh riot so far. Guy has a background in
       | infosec, an holds a CISSP cert, among others. The FBI sends him
       | crypto and what does he do?!
       | 
       | (1) immediately opens a KYC custodial account (2) xfers the
       | crypto there (3) converts it to USD and sends it to his KYC bank
       | in Colorado.
       | 
       | You can't make this stuff up. Also I love how (ostensibly either
       | proton or tutanota) is referred to "Foreign Email Provider". They
       | should buy ForeignEmailProvider.com and make it another email
       | domain for their users. I would love
       | hackerman69420@foreignemailprovider.com
        
         | vdfs wrote:
         | 4 minutes later, someone registered that domain
        
           | wswope wrote:
           | Don't mind me; just checking for any automated scripts that
           | are watching for unregistered domains mentioned on here:
           | 
           | SmallPPDomainRegisterBot.com
        
             | runnerup wrote:
             | how would you differentiate a script from a troll?
        
           | MarchKilroy89 wrote:
           | Wasn't me! But I expect my hackerman handle when you get your
           | infra set up, anonymous registrant! :p
        
             | arthurcolle wrote:
             | They should just redirect ForeignEmailDomain to whatever
             | the real foreign email domain was lmao. What is it,
             | Tutanota? ProtonMail? FastMail? Lmao
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | You should grab Hackerman31337 first. That will be worth
             | something.
        
         | mzs wrote:
         | And he worked at NSA for under a month.
        
         | rsj_hn wrote:
         | Brilliant! Also try "ShadyForeignEmailProvider.com"
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | One of my deep background worries is how many criminals aren't
         | caught because they don't make amateur mistakes. You always
         | read these indictments and the perpetrator served themselves up
         | on a silver platter. But what about all of those unsolved
         | crimes that might simply be unsolvable!
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Some of them go for awhile, but the criminal has to not slip
           | up every single time.
           | 
           | But if you are going to do a crime do it once and done and
           | you may very well get away with it.
        
       | philip1209 wrote:
       | Interesting to think that, with a little information, you could
       | pull up the cryptocurrency transaction (assuming it's not a
       | secret ledger like zcash) and trace how the FBI funded the
       | wallet.
        
         | AustinDizzy wrote:
         | I tried that exercise after reading the affidavit, and
         | determined they were using Monero (XMR) which makes this task
         | much more difficult if not impossible.
        
           | thakoppno wrote:
           | I too read the affidavit looking for opsec tips to commit my
           | own mastermind crime.
        
           | solveit wrote:
           | Good to see they know what they're doing.
        
             | bri3d wrote:
             | The affidavit indicates that the target selected the
             | cryptocurrency - presumably, he thought he knew what he was
             | doing, but the amounts and times were still cross-
             | correlated after the fact.
        
       | harry8 wrote:
       | What this tells us is exactly how competent the NSA are. Every
       | single hostile foreign power has their secrets if this guy has
       | them.
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | The guy only worked there for three months, and there was an FBI
       | sting operation against him. Is this something they routinely do
       | to new employees, or maybe they found out something right after
       | his hiring? It isn't strange that an employee was doing something
       | wrong, they got wind, and set up a sting, but the timetable is
       | crazy short.
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | It sounds like the FBI has an website/email account set up like
         | "I_AM_A_RUSSIAN_SPY@gmail.com".
         | 
         | People email that account with offers of providing information
         | to the russian government, and then the FBI goes and sees who
         | had access to the documents which get sent over. In this case,
         | only one person accessed all the documents, so even if he
         | doesn't identify himself to I_AM_A_RUSSIAN_SPY@gmail.com, they
         | still get him.
         | 
         | It doesn't seem like this person was specifically targeted or
         | had an operation against him. He just fell into the honey pot.
        
         | thret wrote:
         | It's strange that they would give a security clearance to
         | someone in a bad financial situation. I would think it's quite
         | rare for the FBI to run a sting against an NSA employee...
         | perhaps he wasn't targeted at all, but went out looking for
         | someone to sell information to.
        
           | aliqot wrote:
           | Agencies are well known to not pay competitively, even in IT
           | roles, but when I think about the obvious solution which is
           | to pay more, I immediately think of the uproar and
           | accusations that would come with a government official
           | getting what some might consider a 'lavish' wage even if it
           | is industry standard for the skillset.
           | 
           | I'm looking at this to be possible more like when you have
           | company wide phishing tests going through the emails, and it
           | catches Brenda the new person in accounting who's still on
           | their probationary period.
        
         | mhoad wrote:
         | Let me put it to you another way. New guy turns up, starts
         | printing off a whole bunch of highly classified docs that don't
         | relate to his actual job and then suddenly has to leave due to
         | a vague "family illness".
         | 
         | He is basically a walking profile of insider threat behaviour
         | modeling.
         | 
         | I don't think it was anything other than his stupidity that put
         | him on the radar so quickly. Reading the indictment it's clear
         | he was a bit of an idiot.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | Yeah, but... why does a new guy even _have access_ to a bunch
           | of highly classified docs that don 't relate to his actual
           | job? That's an epic fail by the NSA. I mean, good job
           | catching him. Now close the door that he walked through when
           | he found it open.
        
             | dexterdog wrote:
             | Probably because far too many docs have a security tag on
             | them just in case.
        
             | teraflop wrote:
             | The affidavit says that he had access to more documents
             | than he was supposed to because of a "misconfiguration". Or
             | at least, that's what he told the undercover agent.
             | 
             | Given that his access of the documents was logged anyway,
             | it wouldn't surprise me if the misconfiguration was itself
             | a honeypot, using documents that are relatively low-value
             | but still classified.
        
               | thakoppno wrote:
               | Wonder what the content of the documents is if they
               | indeed are a honeypot? Presumably one wouldn't put any
               | actual secrets but that presents the problem that one
               | would need to know the real secrets to plant fake ones.
               | Additionally the fake ones would implicate some real
               | person, presumably which is problematic if a
               | sophisticated hacker exfiltrated successfully without
               | detection.
               | 
               | I could never get anything done in espionage. I'm far too
               | paranoid.
        
             | conductr wrote:
             | The files were in a folder called "NeWgUyHoNeYpOt". That's
             | meant as a joke but could very well be true in this case.
        
         | momothereal wrote:
         | I'm thinking some non-targeted honeypot, given he reached out
         | to the undercover agent directly...
        
         | bl_valance wrote:
         | And he also had access to classified (top)secret level
         | documents, unless I misunderstood wrong, how is that possible
         | in that short amount of time?
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | A friend of mine did an internship for NSA, he needed top
           | secret clearance just to get a foot in the door.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | The background investigations take months to complete.
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | Thought the same myself. There was a skunkworks documentary a
         | long time ago with engineers who worked on the program. Their
         | cover was TV technicians or something else bland. He said one
         | time he was approached by a women at a bar who was way out of
         | his league. She was pushy and questioned about his work for a
         | while. The engineer always thought it was a test by the
         | government.
        
           | spookie wrote:
           | I don't blame him lol
        
           | rootos wrote:
           | Why not lie to her about everything and bang her anyway?
        
             | mhh__ wrote:
             | (Risk of) Blackmail. Oldest trick in the book.
             | 
             | It doesn't even need to be true, just needs to be
             | compelling.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | bsder wrote:
             | If you were married, this would likely be blackmail
             | material.
             | 
             | Occasionally, though, it does work like you say. I think
             | there was some Asian(?) politician that they tried to
             | blackmail after something like this, and he basically said:
             | "Hey, could you send me a copy of the sex tape? She was
             | smokin' hot, and I'd love to have the video."
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | Sukarno (no last name), first president of Indonesia.
               | 
               | https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-cia-and-kgb-tried-
               | to-bl...
        
               | aliqot wrote:
               | Didn't an agency also target Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
               | this way as well, or am I thinking of someone else?
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | raincom wrote:
         | He worked there for three WEEKS, not even a month. A weird vibe
         | to this whole saga.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | If I was going to work in that sector I would kind of assume
         | that any delightful surprises or exciting new people I met
         | outside of work had strings attached for _at least_ the first
         | year or two.
        
           | bryanrasmussen wrote:
           | sounds like you would end up like George Clooney's character
           | in Burn After Reading.
        
             | arthurcolle wrote:
             | Such a funny movie. "THIS... IS... A... CRUCIFIXION. THIS
             | IS POLITICAL." _sticks out arms in classic crucifixion
             | style_
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | Everyone subject to a background investigation in this sphere
         | has their 4A rights suspended by executive order. They can and
         | will apply all forms of domestic surveillance on such people.
        
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