[HN Gopher] The self-taught UI/UX designer roadmap (2021)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The self-taught UI/UX designer roadmap (2021)
        
       Author : homarp
       Score  : 246 points
       Date   : 2022-10-01 15:16 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bootcamp.uxdesign.cc)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bootcamp.uxdesign.cc)
        
       | RedShift1 wrote:
       | I feel like it is missing one thing: sit next to users and watch
       | them use your software.
        
         | cpeterso wrote:
         | An alternative to traditional usability testing: Drunk User
         | Testing! Your testers will be a little dumber and a lot more
         | honest. :)
         | 
         | https://uxpamagazine.org/boozeability/
        
         | cpursley wrote:
         | OpenReplay and Posthog both have session recording for JS apps.
         | It's been really insightful (and often painful) watching our
         | customers use/struggle with our software.
         | 
         | There's others but those two are open source if you're
         | concerned about user privacy.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | Posthog's site seems to be down, but thanks for posting
           | these. I tried to pitch my company on Fullstory or Hotjar,
           | but failed for reasons these options (which I did not find in
           | my research, somehow) might address.
        
             | james_impliu wrote:
             | (Ironically it might be an ad blocker in your browser
             | causing this!)
        
         | snide wrote:
         | Read the entire document. There's a big section on research.
        
           | RedShift1 wrote:
           | I did read the document, it talks about user interviews,
           | surveys, testing solutions, etc... But never once the actual
           | act of the designers sitting next to users and just observing
           | what happens.
        
       | somat wrote:
       | I think design as an independent study is a mistake. it should
       | always be coupled with underlying system engineering.
       | 
       | When they are decoupled you end up with architects making pretty
       | buildings that are hard to build and operate. software that looks
       | nice framed on a wall but trips up the casual user and is
       | downright painful for the Professional user. and stylish consumer
       | goods where the style interferes with the function.
        
         | whiteboardr wrote:
         | You nailed all problems with design education in that comment.
         | 
         | Rich Gold's fabulous book "Plenitude" comes to mind.
        
       | cloudking wrote:
       | UI = how your product looks and feels
       | 
       | UX = how your product makes users feel
       | 
       | Well designed products have to balance looking nice with not
       | frustrating users.
        
       | lvl102 wrote:
       | I feel the UI/UX space is so full of zero skill people.
        
         | insightcheck wrote:
         | Is this really true, though? It's maybe plausible that people
         | can hold positions without doing much, but I was under the
         | impression that UI/UX requires a lot of expertise.
         | 
         | From a couple of days ago on HN [1], it's possible to have over
         | 1,000 layers on Figma just to create a button [2] and over
         | 10,000 layers on an entire website. And that's just for
         | creating a design on Figma. Then there is the field of UX
         | research to gather data on the design, the sense behind
         | choosing colors and typography for UI, a familiarity with
         | working with shadows to create a sense of depth on the page,
         | and even working with sound and audio for feedback.
         | 
         | I don't even see how it's possible to hold a UI/UX position and
         | not do anything, because there are very clear deliverables that
         | can be asked for, and a manager can soon tell if a person isn't
         | completing the work. It's plausible that low-skill people can
         | exist in the field, but I genuinely can't imagine how one could
         | stay low-skill yet keep the position.
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33013182
         | 
         | [2] https://imgur.com/TodWS0r
        
           | yetanotherloser wrote:
           | Design is really important and a genuinely difficult skill.
           | Unfortunately UI/UX design is a growth area that is currently
           | attracting useless chancers like shit in a honey-and-vinegar
           | sauce attracts flies. I feel a bit sorry for chancers because
           | it must be a bit grim to know you are useless and have to
           | fake it... but not so sorry I will hire one, or treat the one
           | hired by someone else as the star they claim to be.
        
           | diordiderot wrote:
           | > 1,000 layers on Figma just to create a button
           | 
           | Really proves the no skill point.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | 1000 layers for a button is a misleading description of the
             | linked image. It's an entire design system for every button
             | in an app.
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | It's a bit like with developers. At least 50% are crap.
        
           | lvl102 wrote:
           | I really view UI/UX position as an excuse to have "friends"
           | around the company.
        
             | emadabdulrahim wrote:
             | You must work for a really mediocre company?
             | 
             | Design makes or breaks a product. Not sure where you got
             | the impression that it's useless and professional designers
             | gets nothing done.
        
               | lvl102 wrote:
               | I am not contesting that UI/UX is incredibly important
               | and hard. It's just that 99.99% of the people in that
               | profession are clueless.
        
               | emadabdulrahim wrote:
               | Are 99.99% of developers clueless?
               | 
               | I'm just trying to understand what makes you think that
               | in the field of design, 99.99% of the professionals are
               | clueless? What about in the marketers? Are they also
               | 99.99% clueless?
               | 
               | Trying to learn how non-designers think of the
               | profession/professional designers.
        
               | rileymat2 wrote:
               | Having worked with an excellent UX designer, specifically
               | not a graphic designer, he was great.
               | 
               | The difference between him and the other ones I have run
               | into sense, he watched users use the product, he would
               | ask users how they might operate low fi paper mock ups,
               | before us developers even saw the design. He tried his
               | best not to project his own preferences and
               | idiosyncrasies on the interaction design.
               | 
               | On the other hand, I have not seen this since. Compared
               | to him, in my anecdata 90% are not clueless, but pretty
               | bad.
        
               | rileymat2 wrote:
               | To add on, he was not some genius, what he did was
               | listen.
        
             | tpmx wrote:
             | I don't doubt that there are a number of broken companies
             | where that is the case. Sorry if you're in such a place :/
        
         | nfw2 wrote:
         | I agree that a lot of UI/UX professionals have dubious
         | qualifications.
         | 
         | That said, talented designers can arguably be a company's most
         | valuable employees. Product design is the axis on which many
         | tech companies compete, not technological innovation. Technical
         | competency is table stakes.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | I hesitate to conclude this but I have a feeling that this is a
         | 'wishful sketching' profession for many.
        
       | ForOldHack wrote:
       | I was hired on words alone also: I critiqued their design, and
       | gave them some tips and guidelines: Hired on the spot. Designed
       | part of an app, that was so well liked, it became standard and
       | lore.
       | 
       | This article in particular is next level. Even if you know UX,
       | even if you are great at UX, this one is good.
        
       | uxcolumbo wrote:
       | Why is it called UI/UX designer?
       | 
       | UX is an umbrella term covering many design disciplines, like
       | interaction design, UI design or research.
       | 
       | UI is a subset of UX.
       | 
       | Someone who is good at both interaction design, IA, research and
       | UI is nowadays called (digital) product designer.
       | 
       | It's somewhat frustrating that the design industry can't agree to
       | use the right terms.
        
       | oxff wrote:
       | I think UX designers have already caused enough havoc, we don't
       | need more of them
        
         | klysm wrote:
         | How do you reconcile this with a lot of software having
         | horrible UX? It has real consequences
        
           | linguae wrote:
           | Here's my take: in many projects there are design and
           | engineering tradeoffs that put the user's needs and interests
           | against the company's interests. A simple example would be
           | ads. Many websites and software tools rely on ads for
           | funding. There are many ways to serve ads with varying
           | impacts on the user experience. The challenge is serving the
           | ads in a way that brings in acceptable amounts of revenue
           | while not alienating users with annoying, intrusive ads that
           | drive users to their competitors.
           | 
           | Of course, there are many situations where users can't use
           | competing software, or where there is no competitor. This
           | leads to resentment, and I believe some of the negative
           | sentiment against some UI/UX designers comes from people
           | being burned by bad experiences caused by UI/UX being
           | optimized for the interests of the company instead of the
           | user.
        
         | runarberg wrote:
         | What do you mean? Are telling us that a lot of people in the
         | UI/UX industry don't have talent? Are you telling us that the
         | UI/UX industry is bad? Can you clarify, otherwise a lot of
         | people here--that are members of that industry--are gonna
         | assume you mean they aren't good at their jobs, and will take
         | offense.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Design is a side-effect of making choices. The idea is that you
         | get someone to do it who has experience and is thinking very
         | hard about it, and testing their assumptions. But the
         | alternative is not to have no designer; that is impossible. The
         | alternative is just that someone else does the design, usually
         | someone who doesn't even know that is what they're doing, let
         | alone care.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | This guide should definitely include big sections on user
       | research, discovery, and validation. These may be left off
       | because they are thought of as more "product designer" skills,
       | but what if I told you that distinction is meaningless? In
       | practice, you'll have to do it even if you don't want to -- but
       | you should want to, because it's the way to actually make things
       | good.
        
         | runarberg wrote:
         | I agree, user research is an invaluable skill of a good UI/UX
         | developer. I guess this is a roadmap, not a guide, and the
         | author makes a passing mention of it, so I consider that
         | sufficient.
         | 
         | As a UI developer, I've never actually learned to conduct user
         | research (skill that I'm definitely lacking), but during my
         | time in the industry I've definitely learned to listen to my
         | graphic designers that actually conduct these research, both to
         | listen to and materialize their interpretation, and to bring my
         | own interpretation. As a novice UI/UX developer I for sure had
         | a lot of biases about user interaction which were deeply
         | flawed, UI/UX research is a really helpful tool in braking
         | these biases.
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | this roadmap is very heavy on theory, and geared towards being a
       | professional designer.
       | 
       | if you're like me and are mostly a developer who just wants to
       | get incrementally better at design piece by piece, here's the
       | roadmap i've been working on for about 3-4 years:
       | 
       | https://github.com/sw-yx/spark-joy/
        
       | ThomPete wrote:
       | You teach yourself UI/UX by applying knowledge from outside the
       | field through design patterns and trial and error to actual
       | projects. Understand the user data adjust according, rinse
       | repeat.
       | 
       | Understand business, understand programming sufficiently, learn
       | how to understand data, learn how to observe and draw conclusions
       | based on behavior, understand typography, color theory.
       | 
       | Avoid anything that says UX theory, design theory, design
       | thinking, design psychology etc. Whatever relevance they have,
       | it's already baked into the design patterns.
       | 
       | The biggest advice I have is find areas that don't have well
       | established design patterns as that will normally be the areas
       | you will have the ability to have the biggest impact.
       | 
       | This is my anecdotal +20 years experience making sure I stayed
       | relevant.
        
         | pazimzadeh wrote:
         | That's good advice.
         | 
         | Another one is to put yourself in the user's shoes and then
         | lean in to your own laziness in order to come up with a UI that
         | will delight the average user.
         | 
         | Also, in the beginning don't worry too much about the
         | difficulty of implementing your ideas. You won't come up with
         | anything new if you are always thinking "that's too hard" or
         | "that will take too long." You can always scale back your
         | ambition at a later time, but it's important to be excited
         | about your ideas.
         | 
         | There are a few sites that follow this philosophy:
         | 
         | http://flyosity.com/design-then-code/
         | 
         | https://designcode.io/
         | 
         | Edit:
         | 
         | Oh, and start prototyping the flow way before finalizing colors
         | and so on. This is a great tool for it:
         | https://principleformac.com/
        
       | tpmx wrote:
       | I spent a lot of time on UI/UX design between 2004-2014 at Opera,
       | the browser company (on the mobile browsers). Finding someone who
       | was good enough at pixel level graphics design _and_ was capable
       | of iterating like us software people were used to was insanely
       | hard, nevermind the complexities of the UI /UX designs.
       | 
       | I think things have gotten a lot better since then. Now it's
       | routine to see very well-designed apps (and _sometimes_ even
       | websites) from even relatively small national /local entitities
       | that _totally nail_ all three main aspects: GFX /UI & UX (well,
       | and sometimes even transitions/motion design). It's really
       | impressive to see how the field has scaled up. I must assume that
       | the various variants of education are working. (Northern European
       | context.)
        
         | xwowsersx wrote:
         | Can you share some examples of apps from smaller entities that
         | you think are well-designed?
        
           | tpmx wrote:
           | Scale is relative. I'm impressed by e.g. these Scandinavian
           | apps: Postnord (!), Avanza, Hemnet, NRK TV, Instabox. There
           | are perhaps 300-400 more of roughly equal quality in
           | Scandinavia. For most of these: the maximum adressable
           | audience (the population) is 5-10M and they still they reach
           | a super high level of polish.
        
             | krembanan wrote:
             | I always thought NRK TV was so well done and beautiful,
             | glad to find someone else that feels the same way :)
        
           | devteambravo wrote:
           | https://skunkworks.ae.studio/
        
             | xwowsersx wrote:
             | I'm not seeing anything here that makes me think "this is
             | good design", but maybe I'd need to sign up for each
             | product. I saw some cute landing pages and some Typeforms.
             | Were you directing to me to something specific?
        
               | devteambravo wrote:
               | Could you share something that does make you think "this
               | is good design"?
        
         | krm01 wrote:
         | One thing that helps us (3 person UI UX design team [0]) is to
         | learn to code and write code for side projects frequently.
         | 
         | This helped us be more in sync with engineering teams and
         | allowed us to seemlessly get plugged into teams of Google
         | engineers, Startups etc.
         | 
         | [0] https://fairpixels.pro
        
           | simulo wrote:
           | I find coding to be a useful skill when collaborating with
           | developers and for writing my own prototypes, but it is not
           | very valuable for getting jobs as it is rarely a required
           | skill.
        
           | andirk wrote:
           | Encourage your designer friends to understand the constraints
           | of HTML and CSS. Without that understanding, the ouput from
           | the design team often looks more like print media.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | Speaking as a former developer, current designer, I agree
           | that all designers should have some familiarity with the
           | medium they're working in, in addition to the domain they're
           | working in. An industrial designer should learn something
           | about fabrication and manufacturing, and a software designer
           | should learn to code. They don't have to become experts, but
           | ignoring such an enormous aspect of your field for your
           | entire career would be a missed opportunity. I hesitate to
           | call it irresponsible, but to be candid that's personally
           | that's how I view it. Call it an invaluable benefit.
        
             | chiefalchemist wrote:
             | I like to say, design without consideration for
             | manufacturing is art. In the context of business, design is
             | not a tool for doing art.
        
           | samsolomon wrote:
           | I think the more overlap in understanding--better delivery
           | teams perform. That doesn't mean product designers are
           | writing production code or engineers are tweaking designs.
           | But it does mean that designers understand limitations and
           | consistency, while engineers understand what the general
           | experience should feel like. I think that leads to a pretty
           | tight feedback loop where things can be iterated on quickly
           | and there's not a lot of noise with arguing about what's
           | possible or not.
        
             | Mezzie wrote:
             | The main problem is that anyone who can do both is highly
             | incentivized to go into engineering/coding instead of
             | product design. The pay and respect are usually much
             | better. So then that pool is limited further to people who
             | can design and code well, prefer design, and don't
             | need/want extra money.
             | 
             | Then add on to that our current work culture prefers
             | specialists to generalists: HR and exec teams will hire a
             | product designer with 5 years of design experience and no
             | coding over someone with 2 years of design experience _and_
             | 5 years of software engineering experience.
        
               | Foreignborn wrote:
               | I don't find this to be the case. I'm a senior designer
               | at a FAANG and chose this over being a SWE. And nowadays,
               | the salaries are very competitive between pm, design and
               | eng.
               | 
               | When I was earlier in my career it was a major struggle
               | to stop coding. every place out of university would say
               | there was some kind of design opportunity for me, but
               | then I'd find myself implementing mine and other
               | designers features. I'm glad that's over.
               | 
               | Anecdotally, I've met several eng -> PM and Eng -> design
               | transfers, probably all possible to the leveling of pay
               | and prestige.
        
               | Mezzie wrote:
               | I stand corrected! Thanks.
        
             | magicalhippo wrote:
             | This applies for most things though. For example, when I
             | got hired at my current place, I didn't know anything about
             | the domain. The more I've learned about the domain the
             | better code I write. Knowing the domain allows me to make
             | informed decisions, discover potential issues etc, rather
             | than just blindly follow some spec.
        
             | krm01 wrote:
             | Exactly this
        
             | ethbr0 wrote:
             | Bingo. The most effective PMs / designers / managers I've
             | worked with as a software engineer spent their energy
             | learning high level technical limitations. What's order-of-
             | magnitude easier; what's harder.
             | 
             | It's difficult to learn because it's experience-based
             | listening and intuiting, without any books that I know of,
             | but it provided a greater boost to team productivity than
             | their learning nuts-and-bolts details.
        
       | 12thwonder wrote:
       | Most of the UI/UX designers that I see at work and other places
       | are basically graphics designers. I just wish UI designers learn
       | more about interaction design than just pure graphics design.
        
         | chiefalchemist wrote:
         | The same applies to web design. Using Photoshop to create an
         | image that looks like a website doesn't make someone a web
         | designer, any more than creating an image that looks like a
         | house would make them an architect.
        
         | cmrdporcupine wrote:
         | Unfortunately it seems like most staffing departments seem to
         | think that this is what UX _is_. Often where you 'd see "web
         | designer" or "graphic designer" before, it's been renamed to
         | "UX designer" and the emphasis is really on visual appeal or
         | ability to toss together web pages etc. rather than on the
         | skill of information architecture, usability flows, user
         | research etc. For some people there's an overlap in these
         | skills, but not for all people.
         | 
         | My wife is trained in UX research and UX/UI design and is
         | trying to break back into the job market after years of being
         | out (kids, sick mother, school, etc.) and although she had a
         | background in some graphic design (and marketing and content)
         | years ago, she doesn't feel confident-in or want to emphasise
         | on graphic design and doesn't have an up to date portfolio of
         | that kind of thing. And what she is finding is almost all the
         | positions titled "UX Designer" are really just "web design" or
         | "graphic designer" with a fancy new title, and they won't look
         | at her, really.
         | 
         | The few times that I've done front end work I've always found
         | it frustrating how the UX people I worked with seemed more
         | concerned right up-front with pixel padding and font choices
         | and colours and animations and logos than with getting the
         | initial storyboard and low fidelity mockups right first.
         | 
         | TLDR; most shops hiring "UX designer" are really wanting to
         | hire graphic designers and pixel slingers.
         | 
         | P.S. if you know of anybody hiring (remote, full or part time
         | or freelance) for UX research, content design, information
         | architecture, and so on and who wants a mature and
         | conscientious worker with past professional experience in the
         | tech sector... ping me at ryan . daum @ gmail.com
        
         | Hnaomyiph wrote:
         | It's funny because I went to school for computer science, I
         | grew up doing graphic design, and have a lot of experience
         | having done a lot of work in both departments, but never a
         | strict UI/UX role. When I tried to apply for UI/UX positions I
         | either never heard back, or was told time and time again that I
         | was lacking specific UI/UX experience.
         | 
         | Thought it was always funny, I guess hiring managers don't see
         | the overlap the same way I do.
        
         | sarchertech wrote:
         | I took a few elective Human Computer Interaction classes in
         | undergrad and grad school. I have never seen a company pay more
         | than lip service to doing actual UI design.
         | 
         | I generally work with graphic designers who made the switch to
         | calling themselves UI/UX designers because the realized it paid
         | more. They're much better than me at understanding composition,
         | fonts, colors, visual hierarchy etc..., but they don't know
         | much at all about actually designing interactive UI.
         | 
         | In many cases the designers are the first people to work on
         | engineering the product and they aren't equipped for this work
         | at all.
        
         | DrewADesign wrote:
         | Conversely, many of the developers I came across in design
         | firms were cargo cult coders who got jobs because they very
         | confidently presented their mediocre-at-best development
         | capabilities as plausible to non-technical people. In fact,
         | they likely didn't even know they weren't great because they
         | generally completed the simple tasks they were given and the
         | people evaluating their work knew less than they did. Not
         | knowing enough to a hire and direct qualified staff is a
         | management problem, not a problem with the field.
         | 
         | TBH, the overwhelming majority of developers assume they know a
         | _lot_ more about UI, UX and visual design work than they
         | actually do... I 'm continually shocked by how many think
         | bringing in a UX person to add visual polish to an otherwise
         | complete product in any way makes sense. In software dev
         | environments, they necessarily have a lot of say in who gets
         | hired. If you're not clear on who does what in the design
         | business, you get people with shiny portfolios of app UI
         | screens assembled in Photoshop to do your "UX" if there's
         | enough time and budget left for the "extra" sprint.
        
         | gsmo wrote:
         | Just to add to this (copied from other branch)
         | 
         | The challenge the profession currently faces is that a lot of
         | people go into it for the wrong reasons and who are not suited
         | for it. Because there is no money in traditional graphic
         | design, many graphic designers elect UX thinking it's nearly a
         | 1:1 transfer. There is a lot of mis-match.
         | 
         | You really have to really like and have a good sense of human
         | cognition and human factors first and foremost. You also have
         | to like thinking in systems. You are basically design
         | (engineering) solutions for how humans interact with computing
         | in all its forms and in many modes.
         | 
         | Many designers, whether they admit it to themselves or to
         | others, would really rather be designing book covers and
         | concert posters.
        
           | Mezzie wrote:
           | And the people who ARE interested in those get less far
           | because we don't have as many shiny things to show off to HR
           | to get an interview in the first place.
        
       | umutcnkus wrote:
       | Do you think investing to learn UI/UX design worth the effort for
       | a frontend developer, besides personel fun?
        
       | astral303 wrote:
       | One could write a whole book about great UX using only interfaces
       | in ncurses/text mode. (Edited: I missed a section on
       | UX/research).
        
         | snide wrote:
         | Read the entire document. There's a big section on UX and
         | Research.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | This is cool but, like anything, practice is far more important
       | than theory.
       | 
       | There are tons of websites that give you fake briefings and
       | challenges to practice on:
       | 
       | https://uxtools.co/challenges/
       | 
       | https://fakeclients.com/ui
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | few more:
         | 
         | - https://www.frontendpractice.com/ - https://www.codewell.cc/
         | - https://cssbattle.dev/
         | 
         | my full list https://github.com/sw-yx/spark-joy
        
         | testcase_delta wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing these!
        
       | hizxy wrote:
       | This is why we have bad software
        
         | klysm wrote:
         | Care to elaborate?
        
         | gsmo wrote:
         | The challenge the profession currently faces is that a lot of
         | people go into it for the wrong reasons and who are not suited
         | for it. Because there is no money in traditional graphic
         | design, many graphic designers elect UX thinking it's nearly a
         | 1:1 transfer. There is a lot of mis-match.
         | 
         | You really have to really like and have a good sense of human
         | cognition and human factors first and foremost. You also have
         | to like thinking in systems. You are basically design
         | (engineering) solutions for how humans interact with computing
         | in all its forms and in many modes.
         | 
         | Many designers, whether they admit it to themselves or to
         | others, would really rather be designing book covers and
         | concert posters.
        
       | 0xb0565e487 wrote:
       | I can't read this they want me to sign up, but it looks
       | interesting.
        
         | EarthIsHome wrote:
         | https://archive.ph/ry2Kc
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Copywriting is design.
       | 
       | Many of the examples are for web design however not once does it
       | talk about copywriting. It goes way under appreciated but
       | copywriting is also design (i.e. # of words you write effects UI
       | layout in massive ways).
        
         | gopher_space wrote:
         | My biggest fear as a developer is that I'm unaware of something
         | that's obvious to a domain right next to mine. I love seeing
         | people break down their work like in this article, and I wish I
         | had a way to add comments like yours to the model and see
         | other's thoughts on where and why it fits in.
        
         | partlysean wrote:
         | Completely agree. Content Designers should be part of the
         | conversation just as early as Product Designers and
         | Researchers.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | Earlier, if you ask me. Content should be an input to design.
        
         | seanwilson wrote:
         | > (i.e. # of words you write effects UI layout in massive ways)
         | 
         | Yep. Does anybody work with dedicated copywriters and dedicated
         | UI designers who don't do copy? What's the general process?
         | 
         | I find the UI design and copywriting has to be done iteratively
         | because they're interdependent and require experimentation to
         | find the right balance. For example, sometimes there's a tricky
         | layout situation that can be solved by just changing the length
         | of the copy. Same goes for development, sometimes it can be
         | easier to modify the UI slightly to make it more practical to
         | implement e.g. some responsive design coding can get really
         | complex if you're not leaning into what the browser lets you do
         | easily with flexbox/grid.
         | 
         | Work goes a lot smoother with better results when each team has
         | some flexibility and collaborate in an iteratively way vs
         | thinking they can handover their part and have it followed
         | without any tweaks.
        
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