[HN Gopher] From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate
___________________________________________________________________
From Burned Out Tech CEO to Amazon Warehouse Associate
Author : jasonshen
Score : 171 points
Date : 2022-10-03 18:58 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jasonshen.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jasonshen.com)
| selimnairb wrote:
| Guy who doesn't need to work slums it with the poors to self
| actualize. Fuck this guy.
| betwixthewires wrote:
| As someone who's worked almost the full gamut of work types, from
| warehouse to sales to manufacturing to software development, even
| service and call center work, I can say that there's something
| rewarding about physically demanding work, taxing though it may
| be, that you just don't get sitting at a desk. And there's
| something you get building an abstract machine with your mind at
| a keyboard that you can't get in a warehouse or a factory. These
| days I try to balance those things, I make sure I do things that
| are very tactile and physical and alsp sit at my workstation at
| least a few hours a week to make progress on my projects. I'd say
| having a bit of both feels pretty good.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| This is kind of awesome
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| throwie_wayward wrote:
| you will own nothing and be happy. oh, an a computer will tell
| you what to do every step of the way.
| wnolens wrote:
| Similar story with me. Except I ended up in AWS!
|
| Worked in different big tech for 7y, and took a sabbatical
| because I could, and so why not?
|
| Well after a year of travelling and working on my own ideas and a
| bit of contract work, I entered a complete pit of depression. I
| mean contemplating ending it all to stop the pain. Instead big
| daddy Bezos was handing out tech jobs like candy so I took one
| begrudgingly just to have someone else to be accountable to,
| because I found it completely impossible to live with only my own
| expectations.
|
| It helped. I'm halfway good again (or perhaps just a different,
| darker normal), with a different outlook on what and why I do
| things. But goodness.. I will never retire again. Not without
| kids to raise, or something/someone else to be accountable to.
| hnuser847 wrote:
| Can you help me understand this perspective? Was there really
| nothing you wanted to do with your life that you had to resort
| to getting a corporate job to keep yourself sane? A guy a used
| to work with went through the same thing recently after his
| startup was acquired. I'm not sure how much he made, but I'm
| pretty sure he's set for life. He stayed retired for about six
| months before getting bored and getting another job. It's just
| completely baffling to me.
|
| I want to sail the world. That is my one and only dream in this
| life. If I made enough money to retire, that's what I would do.
| I would never dream of getting another job just to fill the
| time.
|
| Granted, I've never been retired and probably won't be for a
| very long time, so I don't know for sure what it would feel
| like. But this perspective that retirement is boring and/or
| soul crushing just doesn't compute with me. Maybe I'm missing
| something.
| strangattractor wrote:
| What this really shows is that it is a lot harder to do most
| anything other than being a CEO. Steve Jobs held CEO positions at
| Apple and Pixar simultaneously. Seriously doubt that either was a
| 20 hour a week job.
| jasonshen wrote:
| OP here. Decided to share this on HN because it seemed relevant
| given the earlier article on seeking structure. A lot of folks
| responded to my comment about Philip sharing that they too have
| experienced a yearning for physical labor.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33070986
|
| Life takes all of us in different directions, I thought HN
| readers would find this path instructive.
| WesternWind wrote:
| It's interesting that he developed tendonitis.
|
| I've read that the rate of injury at amazon jobs is incredibly
| high _, which is not good practice in my view.
|
| _ Article says amazon rate of serious injury 80% higher than
| competitors https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57332390
| mikrl wrote:
| When I was in a warehouse slugging cast iron and black steel
| all day I could barely walk by the time I got home.
|
| Spending all day on your feet, loaded with a large mass going
| up and down, and wearing the least shitty boots you can afford
| does a number on you. I still feel it in my foot and calf to
| this day and it's been years.
|
| The old guy I worked with must have been going on 65 and
| slugged harder and faster than me with less bitching. He hated
| the company, but not the work he did. Absolute trooper.
| missedthecue wrote:
| The other way to look at this is that Amazon actually reports
| injuries. My brother worked at a "mom & pop" carpet warehouse
| and they wouldn't report anything unless it resulted in a
| hospital visit i.e. broken bones, high blood loss, concussion,
| etc...
| hemloc_io wrote:
| yeah I always found the public, but especially tech's
| industries interest in Amazon's warehouse conditions somewhat
| dubious.
|
| Where I used to live there were tons of people who worked at
| normal warehouses and switched over to Amazon b/c the pay was
| better and things were basically the same.
|
| Amazon gets tons of, at least somewhat deserved, heat for
| what they do, but compared to the truly horrific things done
| by something like the meatpacking industry? idk if the amount
| of shit they get is equal to the actual on the ground
| conditions.
|
| Working for a mom and pop manual labor gig generally sucks
| wayyyy more than a big corporate one. (Lower pay, shittier if
| any benefits, longer hours, much more nepotism, no recourse
| for issues etc.)
|
| EDIT: for context on the meatpacking thing.
|
| Meatpackers will illegally import immigrants, pay them much
| cheaper under the table and if there's an inkling of dissent
| get ice to round them up and deport them. e.g.
| https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/29/ohio-
| ice...
|
| Also meatpacking is basically a monopoly, that the feds are
| trying to fight.
|
| https://missouriindependent.com/briefs/joe-biden-
| debuts-1-bi....
| WesternWind wrote:
| Perhaps that's true, though I tend to think OSHA and
| equivalent bodies actually know what they are doing.
|
| Still even if they are the same, if more than 1 in 20 workers
| gets a serious injury at work at any job, I think that's an
| issue.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Qantas has for decades been one of the safest airlines. During
| this period, it was also the airline with some of the highest
| minor incident rates. I believe I read this in _The Field Guide
| to Understanding Human Error_ by Sidney Dekker.
|
| You may find it a useful thing to consult on the subject.
| samstave wrote:
| Amazon will be the first to adopt the exo-skeleton-assist for
| factory/warehouse workers, which the unit is registered to you
| and any damage will result in a docking of your medical
| coverage/pay.
| scrlk wrote:
| > "Alexa, open the exo-skeleton, I need to go to the
| bathroom"
|
| > "I'm sorry, your exo-skeleton has already been opened for
| the allotted 15 minute break, it will not open again until
| the end of your shift"
| renewiltord wrote:
| Imagine doing all this and not installing a condom cath at
| least.
| foobarian wrote:
| Heh if you go through the trouble of building an exo-
| skeleton might as well build in the toilet facilities.
| scrlk wrote:
| > "Warning: Your exo-skeleton waste container is full."
|
| > "Warning: You have ran out of your free waste container
| quota for this shift. If you require a new waste
| container, it will be deducted from your pay"
|
| > "Alert: High stress levels detected. You are required
| to report to an AmaZen(TM) Mindfulness Practice Room [0]
| for 30 minutes after your shift"
|
| [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57287151
| purplezooey wrote:
| This sounds nice, but the guy is already rich. That makes it a
| lot less interesting.
| themitigating wrote:
| Why?
| svnt wrote:
| William Shatner answered this in 2009:
| https://youtu.be/ainyK6fXku0
| artylerzysta wrote:
| I found physical work very relaxing for mind.
| curiousDog wrote:
| Hey Peter Gibbons already did this. Time to burn the whole damn
| warehouse down, Milton.
| asim wrote:
| Whoa that really sucks. I met Philip Su a really long time ago
| when he was at Facebook. I think he came to our office in London
| to give a talk. Sad to hear he's been through such a difficult
| time. Hope life continues to improve for him and maybe he makes
| his way back to tech at some point.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| I sometimes miss my old job hauling around boxes. It's great
| exercise and you never have to take stress home with you. Good
| coworkers often times too
|
| It just doesn't pay enough to retire off of. Can't easily build
| savings. Can't easily pay for the dentist or other emergencies
|
| Being a lead programmer pays a ton better. I just wish I wasn't
| as stressful as it is
| fn-mote wrote:
| > Can't easily pay for the dentist or other emergencies
|
| Work a union job, not Amazon?
|
| UPS benefits will easily cover your medical and dental
| problems. (Once you qualify.) I don't know anything about
| Amazon's worker coverage.
| xedeon wrote:
| From a quick Google search:
|
| - https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/employer-
| brand/AMZ_20...
|
| - https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-
| us
|
| - https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/benefitsoverview-
| us...
| pxx wrote:
| Amazon's medical coverage is no UPS but it is extremely
| competitive against plans that union members try to tout as
| better. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26753455 as
| an old discussion where the thread creator thinks their plan
| is a lot better "due to unions" but it's actually a lot
| worse.
| notesinthefield wrote:
| I left devops behind to go back to an IT help desk. Around a
| 20% paycut but I never even have to have email on my phones, no
| on call, no weekends, I barely have to think much. Good
| benefits and still above average pay for my area and I can
| return to grad school part time. I realized I just dont deal
| well with stress and it easily spills over into my personal
| life, my stress started effecting my spouse so I _had_ to go.
| jdwithit wrote:
| I have a friend who works in finance at a huge bank. He makes a
| killing, but absolutely despises his job. His stated goal is to
| make enough to retire early (we're ~40 now, so soon-ish) and
| then work part time at a hardware store just for something to
| do. Pretty much for the reasons you said, meet people, low
| responsibility and stress, the job ends when you punch out.
|
| I think I'd get bored pretty quick, but I do understand where
| you're coming from.
| sharkweek wrote:
| Graduated in 07, was working middle office for a bank, economy
| tanked so I left to go travel in a low cost of living area
| (Central America) for a bit.
|
| Came back, couldn't find a job so worked at a grocery store for
| two years throwing freight.
|
| Honestly kinda loved it. No stress besides the occasional surly
| coworker, but it felt very peaceful making a customer-ravaged
| shelf look whole again. Couldn't afford the low wages now but
| at the time not sure I would have traded it for much.
| htrp wrote:
| You're getting paid for the extra stress .... markets in
| everything.
| moonchrome wrote:
| Often the tradeoff is not worth it (as in I've seen
| situations where people were working way more stressful
| situations for like 20%-30% pay bump), not just talking
| values, but if it's really high stress it better be paying
| enough to be able to retire in 10 years because constant
| stress will kill you faster than repetitive physical labor.
| SevenNation wrote:
| > I had what I would stereotype as a traditional Chinese
| upbringing in America, which meant my parents very much expected
| straight A's. Anytime a B happened, something had gone wrong. The
| explanation was never like you lack the talent or whatever, but
| that you didn't work hard enough.
|
| It sounds like the author never got a chance to figure out the
| intersection between what he liked to do and what he was actually
| good at. Instead, he was trained to respond to the approval of
| authority figures. So the true north of his internal compass
| pointed to whatever the person in charge at the time thought of
| him.
|
| Fast forward to 2021:
|
| > I think most people who dream of retirement think that it's
| going to be awesome. And it was--for about a month. I skied on
| weekdays, shopped at Target at 11am with nobody there, and played
| video games. But after several months of pursuing various hobbies
| as my whims and interests--all the things which people who aspire
| to retire young might look upon with envy--I felt unfulfilled. I
| became unmoored, set adrift in a sea of theoretical possibility
| only to drown in unbounded optionality. Novelty and excitement
| turned into a spiraling vortex of depression as I began to wake
| up sometimes at noon, sometimes 2pm, and on the rare occasion
| even getting out of bed at 6pm.
|
| With no authority figure to send the positive vibes he craved,
| the author felt adrift. This is where the gig at Amazon comes in.
| Authority figures galore and a clear sense of what a job well
| done meant.
|
| Some are chalking this up to poverty tourism. Maybe it's
| something else.
| jarek83 wrote:
| I did the other way round. After 5 years in Tesco warehouse
| somewhere in the UK, I went back to Poland to learn web
| development. Picking jobs are cruel, I'd advise anyone against
| taking it and trying hardest they can to avoid it. It gives you
| problems with your back, your legs, gets you bored about life.
| You get back home physically tired and mentally numb each
| freaking day, that's because you wear your arse out there forced
| to ignore any safety rules just to get on time with all tasks and
| you still get some angry manager calling you every now and then
| because his managers always push him to achieve more
| 'picks/hour'. If you see warehouse job ad - run.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| I heard the higher-level positions around the Warehouse (like
| Operations Manager) are often 16 hour days.
| gnrlst wrote:
| I have a sense of guilt when I compare myself to my high school
| friends who have to work longer, work harder, and get paid
| significantly less. They are just as smart, they just made
| different choices. And this sense of guilt and of feeling like I
| don't deserve it just compounds the imposter syndrome to the
| point I can't even enjoy what I have because I think that at any
| moment I'll be "discovered" and lose everything. I think it stems
| from my inability to appreciate what I have because I have this
| instinctive belief that if I let myself, then something will
| happen for whatever reason.
|
| Now that I wrote this I realize it has little to do with the
| original article (which I read, both parts actually), but
| hopefully someone has some good advice, so I don't have to resort
| to quitting and going to an Amazon FC to feel better about
| myself.
| theteapot wrote:
| > hopefully someone has some good advice, so I don't have to
| resort to quitting and going to an Amazon FC to feel better
| about myself.
|
| Go work on a farm or as a gardener. You'll feel much better
| outdoors closer to nature.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| This may not feel like a serious enough problem, but paying
| someone (like a therapist) to listen and advise can really help
| clarify one's thinking. Lots of therapists meet virtually now
| too.
| orev wrote:
| > They are just as smart, they just made different choices.
|
| Most people fall within a similar range of intelligence, and
| where they end up in life is far more a result of the choices
| they made than how smart they are. So you made a bunch of
| choices, like learning tech, etc, and they made a bunch of
| choices, like maybe partying instead of studying, and now you
| get to enjoy the rewards.
|
| You shouldn't feel guilty about that, you earned it by making
| better choices.
| theteapot wrote:
| Or maybe he was just lucky. Just saying.
| Bakary wrote:
| I don't think guilt is helpful, but this logic has some
| issues. You obviously cannot have everyone be a coder. And
| becoming a coder takes many intervening steps of which
| choices are only one factor. Being born in a developed
| country (heck only the US has those truly insane salaries),
| having a natural interest for it, having universities and the
| means to study, living in a safe home etc. these are all
| unearned yet make up 90% of the end result.
| gamechangr wrote:
| I have had this experience. Sometimes its important to remember
| that money is just a proxy. For example, I have paid for 10
| friends from High School to spend a week in a 3,000 SQ FT cabin
| in Colorado and just relax.
|
| I'm going to say a few things that I normally wouldn't, just to
| better illustrate my point. A few of my friends make less than
| $30k a year. One is 1st grade teacher (male) and one is a full
| time math tutor. They are great people who go to work and make
| a difference. I wouldn't feel the same if they just laid on
| their couch and drank everyday...but still.
|
| Remember money is really for experiences. I paid for the Cabin,
| 10 sking passes and sent each of them $2,000 for the trip to
| cover air fairs and transportation. The whole thing was maybe
| $30,000 and it's one of my better memories.
|
| I would say -- be intentionally generous and look for ways to
| help your life long friends. Yes, it helps them. Yes, it helps
| you too. You would be shocked how much purpose it brings to
| your life.
|
| Most 40 year olds have less than 2 people in their life that
| would lend them $10k. Be that friend and never keep track.
|
| This is the reason you work hard and are paid more than you
| should be - to be a better friend than you otherwise would be
| able to be.
|
| Blow someone away with your generosity
| fffobar wrote:
| BTW, a highly disturbed sleep like he is describing is a common
| sign of burnout/depression/anxiety disorder. Do not ignore it!
| There are drugs and therapy, it is worth it. It is double worth
| it if you have the money to stay unemployed or have other ways of
| getting some extended rest, at least 3 months. BTW, there is even
| some chemical signalling pathway explanation for that connection.
| Or maybe it is hypothesized? IDK, it's above my knowledge level.
| But the correlation surely is real and strong.
| kirbys-memeteam wrote:
| avgDev wrote:
| "The experience was physically taxing, he was diagnosed with
| tendonitis after moving hundreds of boxes a day, but it pulled
| him out of his depression and helped him gain perspective and a
| deeper sense of meaning".......
|
| I have mixed feelings about this. What this has proven is working
| at amazon warehouse sucks, and is not sustainable.
|
| I've had many physical shitty jobs in my 20's. Then, I had some
| health issue and could no longer keep doing that to my body, so I
| went back to school and got a CS degree.
|
| I sometimes get depressed and miss physical work, but then I
| remember how shit it was and how an injury would prevent me from
| working. As a dev I think I'm going to be able to earn money as
| long as I'm alive and have a functioning brain.
|
| I guess once you have enough money then maybe someone might find
| that work fun? Obviously it helped the writer with depression.
| However, if he ever gets permanently hurt and it affects his
| daily life I have a feeling depression will come back in full
| swing. Office work is much much safer.
|
| There are ways to help people through tech and have much bigger
| affect then moving boxes for a shitty company.
|
| Edit: What helps my depression is connecting with people outside
| of work, helping people in my community, doing projects around my
| house and spending time with my son. Additionally, I try to make
| good choices when spending my money and limit my spending on
| stuff I don't need, as I dislike excessive spending.
|
| Edit2: Some great comments below. This is very much poverty/shit
| job tourism, which the writer can escape at any moment. This is
| some BlackMirror type of content. Guy makes it big in tech,
| retires, now works shit job people are trying to escape to cure
| his depression. He then writes about it on a blog. Now, other
| non-aware devs might be reading it contemplating leaving their
| jobs to do a REAL job.
| behaveEc0n00 wrote:
| The public is catching on to how sucky it is:
| https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jun/22/amazon-wo...
| theteapot wrote:
| Experienced both sides too. Some physical jobs suck and some
| bosses _really_ suck, but some are also great and massively
| rewarding even though pay may not reflect that. Really depends
| on the company, the match of body+job, and importantly the
| _Country_ - worker protection laws.
| madrox wrote:
| I don't think the author is recommending their experience. He's
| merely talking about what he did and what happened. We've known
| for millennia that physical work sucks. That's why the lowest
| echelons of society always end up doing the worst of it. This,
| I think, is why previous generations were so emphatic about
| college education. In their experience, it was a ticket out of
| doing physically taxing work.
| aswanson wrote:
| Definitely. My dad always recalled working on the Navy Ship
| yard and how cold it was before saying to himself, "F---
| this" and going to college to become an accountant.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| Overly taxing and dangerous physical work sucks. Working in a
| professional kitchen is some of the most fun and (non-
| monetary) rewarding work I've ever done.
| symlinkk wrote:
| Software development is taxing on your brain the same way
| physical labor is taxing on your body. It's depressing, soul
| sucking work. You're stuck inside, staring at a screen for 8+
| hours a day.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Not to mention the perverse association you develop with the
| computer being a requirement for getting work done. My
| dopamine is so tied to ticking off boxes by finishing
| computer work that tasks like cleaning the kitchen have an
| empty feeling.
| [deleted]
| avgDev wrote:
| Working at amazon as an order picker is depressing, soul
| sucking and can wreck your body for the remainder of your
| life.
|
| Devs can get by working few hours a day, some barely do any
| work at all.
|
| I refuse to stare at a screen 8+ hours a day. I take healthy
| breaks and create boundaries.
|
| I rarely have to solve puzzles at work. The grunt of the work
| is almost the same thing over and over.
| logisticpeach wrote:
| _Devs can get by working few hours a day, some barely do
| any work at all_
|
| Not sure how others here feel, but I have to say that when
| I've found myself in situations where there isn't much work
| to be done I find it utterly soul destroying.
|
| Always feel guilty doing anything else in down-time when
| I'm billing a client and so sometimes end up sitting in a
| weird stand by mode, feeling like I'm somehow being lazy.
| knicholes wrote:
| You can always add metrics to your functions, refactor
| your code, improve your deploy process, write more tests,
| etc.
| aswanson wrote:
| Exactly. Not all forms of development require deep
| thought mode, and a lot of them add value to your overall
| productivity and code quality.
| avgDev wrote:
| It's not lazy. If I go for a walk I'm actively thinking
| about projects. I have solved many problem by just
| clearing my mind and taking breaks.
|
| Building software should not be paid by the hour. It's a
| weird thing.
|
| If I can build a piece of software in 10 hours, and
| another dev needs 40 hours....it seems kind of odd to pay
| the slower less resourceful dev MORE for a slower
| delivery?
| nunobrito wrote:
| Yep. Same here, at my level of experience can deliver
| work in high-quality at a fraction of time required for a
| junior. Instead of burn-out, use the extra time to enjoy
| other things and keep learning/improving.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| So I consider taking a walk to clear your mind part of
| work for sure. I also consider reading HN or other
| engineering news/continued education sites to be part of
| work. And taking a coffee break to chat with co-workers
| about whatever (back when we worked in an office),
| including big-picture stuff and non-work related stuff,
| sure, that too.
|
| That's all part of work when you do this kind of work.
| You can not just write code 8 hours a day, indeed, it's
| impossible, and if an employer tries to make you work
| that kind of sweat-shop environment (sometimes it seems
| like that's the actual goal of some Scrum
| implementations), it won't actually get them your best or
| even most productive work.
|
| But there are people on HN who say that they literally
| spend the majority of their day the majority of days just
| doing things that are not work at all. I dunno, watching
| TV, running errands, riding their bike, mindlessly social
| media'ing, playing video games. Like they only spend a
| few hours a week on anything related to work at all.
|
| I agree with GP that for me that's utterly soul-
| destroying, I end up feeling useless and unmoored. (The
| other day on the radio I heard someone reference a study
| that busy-ness to life satisfaction graphed as an upside
| down U, if you have too little free/leisure time you are
| unhappy, but people with _too much_ are unhappy too,
| there 's a sweet spot in the middle. Perhaps that's what
| we're talking about here).
|
| But maybe different people are different.
|
| Or maybe in new remote world, if you spend that time on
| projects you find rewarding (writing poetry, I dunno)
| instead of just goofing off, then it's not really
| "leisure" anymore, and you won't have that problem. If
| also you don't have any ethical problems with it (maybe
| your employer is awful and deserves to be drained of
| money), or just worry about getting caught.
| tobyjsullivan wrote:
| You might be surprised to learn that for every dev working
| "few hours a day" or barely doing anything at all, there is
| another engineer doing all their work for them - usually in
| a constant state of fending off burnout due to having to do
| other peoples' work in addition to their own.
| nsxwolf wrote:
| The trick is to avoid becoming _that_ developer.
| tobyjsullivan wrote:
| I think the trick is to give and take. And maintain teams
| that give and take.
|
| Sometimes I need to take my foot of the gas. But I also
| appreciate that, when I do, someone else has to pick up
| the slack.
|
| When I encounter teammates who only take, take, take, and
| never give, either they leave or I do (depending how much
| influence I have over their employment)
| avgDev wrote:
| That other engineer is actually a problem. He is
| accomplishing nothing by grinding 8+ hours a day and will
| burn out, most deadlines are bullshit.
|
| Nobody can sustain that much work for a long period of
| time.
|
| I would much rather be a good well rounded reasonable dev
| than someone doing others work. That is a huge red flag.
| Every dev should be responsible for THEIR work, not their
| team mates. Unless of course they are doing code reviews.
| humanistbot wrote:
| If all jobs had the same salary, benefits, career path, etc,
| there is no way I'd trade software development for a job
| involving strenuous physical labor.
| zmgsabst wrote:
| If being a security guard paid half instead of a tenth what
| I made as $BIGCO software developer, I'd switch back
| immediately.
| symlinkk wrote:
| I would. Imagine getting paid to be outdoors in the sun
| getting exercise. Imagine not having to spend an extra hour
| each day in a crowded gym doing boring repetitive movements
| because your sedentary job would ruin your body otherwise.
| Imagine not having posture and back problems at age 30.
| Imagine having the output of a hard days work be a physical
| object you can point to your son and say "see? I made
| that".
| [deleted]
| Fomite wrote:
| A lot of physical jobs will happily ruin your body, and
| give you posture, back and knee problems at age 30.
| Bakary wrote:
| If you are an American SWE or have a corresponding
| salary, you pretty much only have to work for 10 or so
| years before retiring, assuming you learn how personal
| finance works and learn to live without a fancy car or
| any status-related possessions.
|
| Heck you could do it in 5 years if you are a FAANG
| employee.
| SantalBlush wrote:
| You just described what a weekend home project is like,
| not a real blue-collar job.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| Man, I'd go back to being an archaeologist in a heartbeat.
| I like software, but the whole corporate thing gets old
| real fast.
| the_only_law wrote:
| Archeology sounds awesome, but I imagine it's one of
| those highly academic fields where barely anyone makes
| it.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| There's a surprisingly large number of jobs, but making
| even middle class income is difficult unless you're one
| of the dozens of people that get a staff job with the
| government or win the academic lottery and get a tenure
| track position.
| sillyquiet wrote:
| My mother-in-law was a nurse at an orthopedic surgery center.
| She always said the major classes of patients she saw were:
|
| 1. old folks getting joint replacements 2. young athletes 3.
| middle aged construction workers or laborers
| twstdzppr wrote:
| Physical work is great in a controlled environment. Hence, the
| gym. No need to destroy ones body doing physical labor, if it
| can be avoided.
| markdown wrote:
| > This is very much poverty/shit job tourism
|
| Reminds me of Mike Rowe's "it's righteous to destroy your body
| for low pay" capitalist propaganda.
| Manuel_D wrote:
| Better than destroying your body for no pay in a command
| economy.
| kjeetgill wrote:
| It's not propaganda, it's a perspective. He's pretty involved
| in activism on the behalf of trades work, not just the
| mouthpiece of some think tank ad campaign.
| antiterra wrote:
| The dude is literally bankrolled by the Koch Industries.
|
| I will grant the Koch family is more than one person and
| more than one foundation/company, and they've bankrolled
| amazing museums etcetc (billionaire philanthropy is better
| than billionaire non-philanthropy.)
|
| But, this is unquestionably calculated corporate advocacy.
| bliteben wrote:
| What a hot take, I may have spent too much time on the
| internet myself today.
| antiterra wrote:
| The most sinister thing about it is that we do need to honor
| those people who work incredibly hard and undesirable jobs,
| but by _compensating_ them, not just worshipping them like
| heroes. Mike Rowe and the cabal that funded his character
| attempt to make the viewer feel self-righteous satisfaction
| merely from empty recognition of merit.
|
| He argues against a minimum wage because some jobs are
| 'stepping stones,' but this runs counter to his whole
| narrative. Further, a proper trade skill training
| infrastructure a la unions or guilds would allow for
| experience ranked compensation. I get that people are wary of
| corruption and protectionism in unions, but it seems
| relatively fair in an adversarial market system.
|
| (I'm also aware that simply expressing the need for higher
| compensation/benefits here is going to sound like bootlicking
| to smug leftists, but I would respect the dirty job of
| literal bootlicking.)
| avgDev wrote:
| The reason I as a dev earn a lot more than our order picker
| where I work is that the software I have built is speeding
| up everything. I created massive improvements in
| efficiency. My high salary is justified because my work has
| a much bigger impact on the finances.
|
| It is that simple. I interview often to get a true market
| rate. Nobody would pay me what I'm making if the market for
| devs wasn't this good.
| nradov wrote:
| I met a young software developer who got a night job loading
| UPS trucks instead of joining a gym. It seemed to work for him,
| although it's probably not sustainable.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > What this has proven is working at amazon warehouse sucks,
| and is not sustainable.
|
| This person went from a 23-year career sitting at a desk to
| doing physical labor all day. Any physical labor is going to
| take a toll on someone in their 40s who hasn't been doing
| physical labor.
|
| I have a lot of people in my extended social circle who are in
| physical labor jobs. Amazon Warehouse jobs are always viewed as
| the "easy" fallback option: Doesn't pay as well as the hard
| physical labor jobs, but it's also viewed as the safe,
| comfortable option. Obviously, someone coming from a 20-year
| desk job is going to have a different perspective when thrust
| into a job with any physical demands.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| I also have people in my extended social circle who are in
| jobs that involve a lot of physical labor. As we all enter
| our late 30s-early 40s give or take, and they realize what a
| toll it's taking on their bodies, most of them are trying to
| get out of it, or have gotten out of it. They realize they
| aren't going to be physically able to do it another 25 years,
| and their bodies are going to get increasingly wrecked.
|
| From what I've heard (including from acquaintances who have
| worked there), a job at an Amazon Warehouse takes a toll on
| your body for sure. For sure it's hardly alone in being like
| that.
|
| (The people in my extended social circle who are in jobs
| involving physical labor are perhaps more likely than most
| physical laborers to have people in _their_ social circle who
| sit at desks, and to be able to access networks and resources
| to shift out of physical labor to make a living).
| BurningFrog wrote:
| You can also write a very similar rant about how sedentary
| desk jobs are not sustainable with all the obesity related
| life shortening conditions it leads to :)
| kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
| I think the takeaway is none of us is getting out of this
| alive.
| tomcam wrote:
| Written like someone whose knees have never been blown out
| on the job
| subsubzero wrote:
| I too had many shitty jobs in my early 20's and reading this
| article kinda triggered those job's bad memories and how much I
| hated working at those places. I remember even after getting
| into tech many years later I would sometimes have dreams where
| I would be back in one of those jobs having a minor case of
| PTSD.
|
| That being said there are other ways to do the type of career
| shift that the author wants. My Wife's cousin who worked as a
| electrician near SF mentioned to me one of his co-workers was a
| former sr. director at Oracle who got burned out and wanted to
| try something new. I asked him how they liked the new career
| and he said she loved it. That job payed well and didn't
| require the forced degradation seen at amazon warehouses, plus
| you get to interact with interesting people and travel to
| different locations frequently.
| NaturalPhallacy wrote:
| > _I have mixed feelings about this. What this has proven is
| working at amazon warehouse sucks, and is not sustainable._
|
| Sure it is, as soon as you realize employees are replaceable
| commodities that get used up like break pads.
|
| Sustainable for the individual? Obviously not. Sustainable for
| amazon. Of course, which is why it won't be changing.
| lesuorac wrote:
| It's not sustainable for amazon-ish [1]. They offer higher
| wages than competitors because they need to keep accumulating
| new employees or convincing old ones to come back.
|
| [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+run+out+employees
| +to+...
| NaturalPhallacy wrote:
| 8.1% inflation to Amazon's rescue! Just in time. Whew, that
| was a close one.
| skadamat wrote:
| I can empathize to be honest. There's something awesome about
| doing physical work. You get to use your body to think and move,
| and feel concrete progress.
|
| However, I think being a Tech CEO is at the opposite end of the
| spectrum from being an Amazon Warehouse Associate. Being
| somewhere in the middle seems very compelling.
|
| In essence, Crawford talks about this feeling extensively in his
| book (Shop Class as Soulcraft). Here's the essay that started it
| all: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-
| so...
|
| He used to be a manager at a political think tank but went back
| to the trades because he found the latter not only more
| satisfying, concrete, and tangible, but also more mentally
| taxing, creative, philosophical, etc.
| rgrieselhuber wrote:
| Fuckin A
| spacemadness wrote:
| This person seems like they are suffering from typical tech
| bubble non-awareness disease. They always strive to make the
| world a better place as... a director of Facebook. Debatable.
| Early retirement is such a nightmare for me that.. I became an
| Amazon Warehouse Associate out of boredom? I'm not sure how any
| of this narcissism is making the world a better place.
| jbm wrote:
| He's a stranger sharing his experience, people obviously found
| it to be interesting.
|
| Re-contextualizing into a class struggle style comment, just
| because he shared his experience, is not very interesting.
|
| All blogging is narcissism if you redefine narcissism to be the
| most bland shade of the word's meaning.
| avgDev wrote:
| This is what I felt but could not put it into words. Non-
| awareness disease is the PERFECT word to describe what I felt
| reading this.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| > strive to make the world a better place
|
| Are you sure that is the motive?
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Yes, the entire thing was cringe.
|
| But it's not just a tech bubble thing; it's more of a 6-figure
| yuppie thing. I knew a doctor making $500k/year in L.A. who
| insisted on taking vacations in disaster zones, etc., as a
| tourist (not with Doctors w/o Borders) so he could "experience
| human suffering" and "become empathetic" to his fellow men
| through their "shared suffering" of being in the same
| approximate location as people who were starving or seriously
| wounded.
|
| He doesn't actually do anything with this "increased empathy."
| He just feels like it makes his EQ super high or something
| silly like that.
| yuliyp wrote:
| How dare he find meaning in things that are different from you.
| Congratulations on figuring out how to find fulfillment and a
| balanced life before the rest of us. Philip's journey toward
| that is clearly different from yours.
| margalabargala wrote:
| He describes exactly what things he finds meaning in:
|
| > For me, a lot of my meaning comes from two things. One is
| doing something in the world that feels like it's actually
| making things a little better somehow. And so contributing to
| society in some meaningful way.
|
| The parent is commenting on how Philip's previous (and new!)
| work positions apparently fulfilled those criteria in no
| small way, in Philip's view. They are noting that it is
| striking that this is the case, as from the perspective of an
| outsider looking in, it does not appear that a director at
| facebook, nor an amazon warehouse worker, fulfills the stated
| criteria.
| jcheng wrote:
| From his LinkedIn:
|
| > Launched a global health software nonprofit, funded by
| the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, focused on using
| smartphones to improve rapid testing in low-income
| countries.
|
| Granted that is 3 years out of a 20-odd year career, but
| it's the stint immediately preceding the events of the blog
| post.
| FiberBundle wrote:
| I just find it kind of worrisome that he finds meaning in
| work that other people are exploited for for a lack of better
| options. Why would a financially independent person choose to
| help enrich a large corporation over, say, voluntary work to
| help underprivileged people, animals or whatever else you can
| think of?
| bobthepanda wrote:
| A lot of feel-good jobs have an unfortunate public facing
| component. There are segments of the population that treat
| service workers with contempt or sometimes even violence.
|
| Retail workers and social workers dealt with the worst of
| it, teachers deal with this behind the scenes, and nurses
| and doctors became (more) exposed to this over the
| pandemic. People don't put up with emotional, verbal and
| sometimes physical abuse, and they shouldn't.
| akira2501 wrote:
| > I just find it kind of worrisome that he finds meaning in
| work that other people are exploited for for a lack of
| better options.
|
| I think viewing every warehouse worker as a member of a
| lower labor caste who is merely being exploited is not a
| warranted view. The fact that people can easily find
| meaning in this labor is further indication it is
| incorrect.
|
| You're also presuming a rather tyrannical existence for
| these people.. wherein their path through life must be
| dictated to them by their "best options." People make
| suboptimal choices for all kinds of reasons, and they don't
| view their circumstances as being "exploited." Probably
| because the companies they work for didn't _create_ the
| suboptimal choices for them in the first place, their
| employer is a matter of circumstance, not conspiracy.
|
| > Why would a financially independent person choose to help
| enrich a large corporation over, say, voluntary work to
| help underprivileged people, animals or whatever else you
| can think of?
|
| Again.. people make suboptimal choices intentionally. The
| explanation here is "this is a very low risk option that
| can be exited immediately if such a whim arises." And in
| all likelihood, exiting in this way wouldn't prevent you
| from being hired back later if your fortunes or whims
| reverse.
|
| Forgive me, but you seem to be a little too comfortable
| looking down your nose at these people.
| hkon wrote:
| There is a difference between enduring hardships because you
| want to for fun, and enduring it because you must to earn
| money.
|
| It reads like a slap in the face
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Something about what you said triggered a memory in me. I
| remember a story about how westerners embraced meditation
| and how monks described how they ( westerners allowed into
| the monastery ) completely missed its point by enjoying
| staring into sand, when it was in theory supposed to induce
| boredom.
|
| I will admit that I am not sure how I feel about the
| article. I might be still processing it.
| spacemadness wrote:
| Yes, Philip's journey was an extremely privileged one
| apparently and required a blog post or it didn't happen.
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| Yep, the guy never reflects on his privilege not _needing_ this
| job. Bad on the blogger too for not prompting them on this - it
| could have been an interesting article..
| jasonshen wrote:
| I would encourage you to listen to the podcast, because he
| definitely does reflect on this, but it wasn't the focus of
| my interview, because this was focused on ways in which
| burned out tech workers try to find meaning in their life,
| not an analysis of low paid jobs.
| [deleted]
| carlosdp wrote:
| Did you actually read the article? He's probably the one person
| in tech that is directly aware of what it's like to work at a
| warehouse _because_ he actually did it for real. He 's not
| claiming to be "making the world a better place" by working at
| Facebook. He's telling the story of how he got burned out from
| that world and sought out a real "honest labor" job that he'd
| heard a ton about in the media to snap out of it and get real.
|
| What more could someone possibly do to wave off the label of
| "tech bubble non-awareness disease," in your opinion?
| spacemadness wrote:
| "For me, a lot of my meaning comes from two things. One is
| doing something in the world that feels like it's actually
| making things a little better somehow. And so contributing to
| society in some meaningful way."
|
| Yes, I read the article.
| LtWorf wrote:
| I loved the "silicon valley" show, where every single
| shitty startup was saying that they'd make the world a
| better place.
| themitigating wrote:
| " He's probably the one person in tech that is directly aware
| of what it's like to work at a warehouse because he actually
| did it for real."
|
| I work in tech but previously did overnight stock at Walmart
| so I guess that's two people.
|
| What's the point of using this kind of hyperbole in your
| comment unless you wanted to make others hate people in tech?
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| > What more could someone possibly do to wave off the label
| of "tech bubble non-awareness disease," in your opinion?
|
| Going from rich to working in a warehouse until you feel like
| leaving is not the same experience as working a warehouse
| because you feel like eating.
| et-al wrote:
| > He's probably the one person in tech that is directly aware
| of what it's like to work at a warehouse because he actually
| did it for real.
|
| There are plenty of people in tech who didn't have the
| traditional four years of uni -> FAANG route. They just don't
| blog about it.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Also, people who worked through college.
| Bakary wrote:
| He learned what a grueling job was for a few weeks. He did
| not learn what it means when that grueling job is your past,
| present, and/or future. The part about the takeout food seals
| that impression
| didgetmaster wrote:
| There were many times in my programming career when I wanted to
| take a mental break and just do some kind of menial job for a few
| months. There are many routine jobs that don't require much
| training so it should be easy to do one for 6 months. The problem
| is generally that most people's career paths do not allow for
| this kind of thing. It looks bad on your resume to have 'truck
| driver' or 'shelf stocker' in-between tech jobs.
| ryandrake wrote:
| I solved this by simply getting hobbies that involve manual
| labor. You get the physical exertion and the ability to see the
| results of the work of your hands--without the drudgery of a
| job and the pressure of having your livelihood depend on not
| wrecking your body. If you're not feeling up to it today, just
| don't go out to the garage. Need extra zen time to forget your
| JIRA queue? Spend a few extra hours hobbying.
|
| Started with auto mechanics, learned basic maintenance, moved
| on to minor, then major auto repairs. Then tried woodworking,
| built a few pieces of furniture for the house, then moved on to
| sheet metal. Finally ended up building a two-seat airplane.
| Physical hobbies are both satisfying AND low-pressure. Plus,
| you shouldn't have to quit your tech job to get a hobby.
| jdwithit wrote:
| I got deep into homebrewing beer for a while for this reason.
| It was extremely satisfying to make something tangible and
| physically taxing after spending all week tapping on a
| keyboard. Not to say that software isn't "real", but having a
| physical thing you can show off and share and enjoy hits
| differently.
|
| Unfortunately having dozens of gallons of good beer on hand
| at all times led to some pretty bad habits so I had to get
| out of that game (plus I had kids, so RIP to both hobby time
| and frequent drinking). Still looking for the next hobby that
| really clicks with me, the intersection of science and
| creativity and engineering and socializing that is brewing
| was pretty perfect.
| octodog wrote:
| Genuine question, why does it look bad? I don't think this
| would be a problem at all where I live (Australia). Worst case
| you could just leave it off your resume.
| [deleted]
| omega3 wrote:
| He could have just played Farming Simulator.
| vukadinovic wrote:
| When you're so rich and bored so you start doing regular jobs lol
| tristor wrote:
| I read the article, and... I get it. But something about this
| just seems weird to me. I grew up mostly on a family farm, worked
| every day of my life in some capacity since I was 9 or 10 years
| old, and did shit jobs to pay for college (which I eventually
| dropped out of right before graduation). I don't think my route
| into tech is that different from many of the other folks I've
| worked with... this guy lived a /very/ charmed and privileged
| existence compared to the average American tech worker, and going
| to work at an Amazon warehouse to get a reality check seems...
| patronizing somehow. I am glad he got a reality check, but I feel
| like there's another way to do this, or at least how to write
| about it.
| nathanaldensr wrote:
| Why deny his experience, though? Not everything needs to be
| viewed through a lens of privilege. I hope the author gained an
| appreciation for those less fortunate or less ambitious. At
| least they have experienced the "other side," so to speak.
| brushfoot wrote:
| > this guy lived a /very/ charmed and privileged existence
|
| His experience in tech doesn't sound so charmed to me. He was
| obsessed with climbing the corporate ladder. He slept in the
| office and woke up early every morning to start grinding again.
| He worked so much he didn't even have time to play a game with
| his son.
|
| He tried another kind of work to see how it compared, and he
| learned stuff. There's nothing patronizing about that.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| Life is fundamentally unpleasant and once you have your basic
| daily needs met you have time to develop mental issues. In the
| west basically everyone including the homeless don't have to
| worry about being eaten, murdered, starving or dying from
| exposure. This leaves a lot of leeway for everyone to think how
| bad they have it while historically being in the top 1%.
|
| It's rather hard to have empathy for someone who has it better
| than you. But I've found it helps to also remind yourself that
| the majority of people who ever lived will feel the same way
| about you.
| dnissley wrote:
| I think part of that feeling is coming from how we've been
| socialized in the middle/upper classes to perceive people with
| lower incomes working more physical jobs than us.
|
| It's no longer acceptable to be snooty towards people in these
| positions, but we haven't dropped the stigma totally, and now
| the acceptable way to view + interact with them is to act (in
| the performative sense, because many of us don't actually know)
| with deference, assuming that their lives are truly miserable
| and their dignity is on the line every day they work such jobs.
| The expectation is that we must feel sorry for them and treat
| them better than other people because of it, or treat them with
| kid gloves.
|
| When you adopt such a stance, the idea of someone willingly
| going and doing one of these terrible no good jobs does seem
| patronizing -- it's masochistic even, and so is viewed as
| suspect and "touristy". When someone does such a thing they are
| "disrespecting themselves" by people with this view. If anyone
| ever tries to provide and alternative view and tell us that
| most people's lives in these positions aren't so bad by going
| and experiencing it themselves, however partially, we heap
| scorn on them. "They don't know what it's really like, it's
| horrible what these people have to do." "They have millions of
| dollars in the bank so their experience can be dismissed." Etc.
| cheeze wrote:
| It almost feels like... tourism? to me?
|
| Hard to explain, but I get what you mean.
| solraph wrote:
| Maybe it's less patronising, and more just blindingly obvious
| to those of us who have had crap jobs in the past?
|
| Having grown up adjacent to upper-middle class people (I'm
| arguably entering that sphere now, but I definitely didn't
| start there), I think a bunch of them could benefit from
| hearing this story from one of their peers.
| carabiner wrote:
| Sell your back, or sell your brain. There is no other way.
| NaturalPhallacy wrote:
| Be born to rich parents.*
|
| *Restrictions apply.
| smallerfish wrote:
| I think this is partly a story of retiring without having enough
| in your life to replace work. I understand how that's possible,
| as full days of work leave me not wanting to do much in the
| evenings (I don't have kids, so I can't imagine where parents
| find the energy) - that said, it's probably important for your
| mental health post-retirement to find things outside of work to
| engage in well before your retirement date comes.
| EricE wrote:
| Traditional jobs are often referred to as honest work for good
| reason.
| 77pt77 wrote:
| No. For no good reason.
| djhworld wrote:
| Working in a warehouse for 6 weeks is gruelling, and from the
| interview it sounds like he got a taste of that experience, but I
| think there's a marked difference between working for the novelty
| of it and working because you're living paycheck to paycheck.
|
| Saying that though I think he's right in the sense that having
| experience of working in an environment like that _does_ give you
| the appreciation for the relative comforts of a tech job.
|
| I've worked retail jobs when younger, and sitting on your butt
| all day writing code is way easier...
| virtuous_signal wrote:
| I agree absolutely. One of these people can stop whenever the
| experience stops being fun and the other has few other options.
| It's about as inspiring as poverty tourism or an episode of
| Undercover Boss.
| spoonjim wrote:
| Working in an Amazon warehouse can be refreshing and restorative
| when you can quit after 10 weeks and have millions of dollars in
| the bank. Not so much when you get tendonitis after 6 weeks but
| have to stare down another 30 years of this and still won't have
| any savings.
| themitigating wrote:
| Yes and we are all aware of that. Are you saying that his
| experience and blog cause harm to those people who have to do
| it? There's been countless posts about Amazon warehouse
| conditions on Hackernews and other news sources.
| Bakary wrote:
| The takeaway is more that one of the contributing reasons the
| world is so dystopian is that people at the top literally
| have no awareness or understanding or what life is like at
| the bottom.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Ostensibly he could just retire.
| Bakary wrote:
| I'm perhaps repeating myself from the other thread but this post
| angered me more than I expected it to. Other commenters have
| picked up on it too, but many others seem not to see it. This
| sort of poverty tourism is actually really twisted and indicative
| of some very grim aspects of our world. I'm curious as to what
| the author thinks or whether they are aware of this.
| nipponese wrote:
| Why does someone trying to understand something through first-
| hand experience get an -ism? I wish every white-collar role,
| especially c-suite and director level person at Amazon took the
| time to work on the warehouse floor, first-hand.
| Bakary wrote:
| But there is no actual understanding. The person in question
| thinks it's a quaint little experience. The part about the
| food takeout illustrates this well: no comprehension about
| actually having to do this sort of labor your entire life. If
| this article does not seem like parody straight out of HBO's
| Silicon Valley I am not sure what to say
| helen___keller wrote:
| > For me, a lot of my meaning comes from two things. One is doing
| something in the world that feels like it's actually making
| things a little better somehow. And so contributing to society in
| some meaningful way.
|
| > But the other thing is socialization with my coworkers is a
| huge part of my daily satisfaction in a job. You might be free
| Monday through Friday but all of your friends are working when
| you want to grab coffee.
|
| I can't relate to many of the author's life experiences, but this
| quote really hit home. I think we're all wired to want to (a)
| make something better and (b) share our life and experiences with
| other people.
|
| How (a) and (b) manifest varies greatly depending on life
| background and opportunities, but I can say most of the mental
| healthy difficulties I've had previously in life can be related
| to those two points.
| fjfbsufhdvfy wrote:
| There are a lot of people who have given up on a) and instead
| spend all their time trying to tear the stuff other people
| build down because they got bored.
| jjmorrison wrote:
| For those judging this guy - let's remember most of us are pretty
| similar. Might be an opportunity to look inwards.
| kvee wrote:
| I thought it was pretty interesting to read from the guy himself
| on his own site.
|
| This one is quite well done:
| https://peaksalvation.com/socioeconomic-bends
| [deleted]
| vadym909 wrote:
| If physical work is too hard, you can try being an Amazon
| contract recruiter- mundane work, a bit easier on the body and
| higher pay.
| ravedave5 wrote:
| Has this dude never heard of hobbies?
| elzbardico wrote:
| There's something strangely satisfying in hard physical labor.
| When I do stuff at home, like renovations, installing stuff,
| gardening, or doing car stuff, even house cleaning, I get a
| strange kind of euphoria that I don't get even when doing stuff
| like working out in a gym or cycling, at least, not at the same
| degree.
| darod wrote:
| interesting that he's so programmed to work that just relaxing
| for a bit made him depressed. hard to see how working 11 hours a
| day is going to make it easier for him to still not have to put
| his kids on the calendar.
|
| on a side note, i wonder if the actual therapy was just doing
| something physical. sitting down not moving for hours and hours
| is not what we were built to do. i always found working out,
| brazilian jiu jitsu, hiking, anything physical to be very
| therapeutic if i've been inside an office all day.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| More than just doing something physical, something
| group/team/class based like BJJ would also give the camaraderie
| and socialization that satisfied him.
|
| I hear a lot of retired people _say_ "I miss working", but when
| probed, they'll say things like "I miss the routine", "I miss
| the people I saw all the time", "I miss the structure". Work is
| not the only place you get these! Going to BJJ, kickboxing,
| clay studios, adult sports leagues, walking groups, some
| volunteer opportunities, etc., all fit the bill. I think some
| people put so much of their life/identity into work that they
| can't even imagine something else...
| germinalphrase wrote:
| If anyone is interested in trying Brazilian jiu jitsu, just
| know it's common to be completely confused for a while before
| the different positions/techniques start to click. It's like
| a huge flowchart, and you're randomly jumping into the middle
| somewhere.
| darod wrote:
| yup, baby steps (black belt 2nd degree)
| tpmx wrote:
| I wonder what this guy's blood pressure level is.
|
| Advice: Make an effort to slow down by 10-20%, and then take it
| from there.
| princevegeta89 wrote:
| Interesting story. I can easily see how the responsibilities of
| being in charge of a decent-sized company can wear you
| down..however I do not personally believe there would be so much
| fatigue though.
|
| I am curious to hear stories from HN folks here who have been
| through similar trajectories
| oldsklgdfth wrote:
| I work in FAANG and enjoy Costco. Sometimes in the food court I
| day-dream of working there. You know what you are doing, you use
| your body, you go home and don't think about it.
|
| I told my friend. He thought it sounded a lot like larping.
| Bakary wrote:
| If you work in a FAANG (presumably as some sort of knowledge
| worker) you have a unique opportunity to never have to work
| again within just a few years of saving.
| oldsklgdfth wrote:
| I could do that and then go work at the Costco food court.
| Somehow that doesn't feel any less like larping.
|
| On a serious note, how does one do that? It doesn't "feel"
| that way, but I know that's lifestyle inflation.
| antiterra wrote:
| The worst of poverty tourism is when it is done impersonally
| without recognition of the inescapable circumstances of others.
| Do see how real people live and work, connect with them to their
| faces. Recount your difficult escape from a low-income origin.
|
| But: don't think that you are one of them and able to advocate as
| a representative if you aren't, a la Pulp's Common People.
|
| We should encourage resilience, but be sympathetic about its
| absence. Everyone _should_ choose to learn to shake off a punch
| to the face, but that doesn't negate the real trauma of someone
| getting assaulted who didn't have that lesson.
| odysseus wrote:
| Wonder if this guy was influenced by the ending of the movie
| Office Space.
| carimura wrote:
| Ya Peter Gibbons figured this out (modulo the podcast) a long
| time ago. So did Lawrence.
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