[HN Gopher] Paris Metro paper ticket reaches end of the line aft... ___________________________________________________________________ Paris Metro paper ticket reaches end of the line after more than 120 years Author : tosh Score : 51 points Date : 2022-10-04 11:12 UTC (2 days ago) (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com) | JoeAltmaier wrote: | That's a long time. Some things have been around longer: brothel | tokens date from the 1st century to the early 1900's. Roman | brothel tokens were used in London, and Upton Sinclair wrote | about 'brass check' tokens used in his youth (1919). | gboss wrote: | I loved visiting paris this summer but was surprised by how | archaic and slow the machines were too buy tickets. I also found | it amusing how there are at least three different | interfaces/machine styles throughout the system. I made the | mistake of buying a one way ticket to Versailles. I missed the | train back home although I was twenty minutes early because the | line to buy a ticket took forever. At least two minutes per | customer | brokenmachine wrote: | Hey, you came back with a story to tell and discussions to | have. | | I'm sure there's things about your country and my country that | are sub-optimal, and things about Paris that are better than | our own countries. | | That's the fun in traveling and learning about different | cultures. | | Personally I hated the smoking everywhere, but loved the food | available. Pain au chocolat and baguettes. Nice. | johnchristopher wrote: | > Pain au chocolat and baguettes. Nice. | | Pain au chocolat, yes ! Chocolatine, no ! | gigel82 wrote: | Paper tickets were the only affordable alternative when we | visited Paris for a week during the summer. There was a "pay-go" | card that cost a bunch upfront and you could charge it with 10 or | so trips at a time (and you couldn't share it either, so each | family member needed a separate one). | | I've used Bolt (a cheaper Uber alternative) a bunch, though taxis | in general don't seem very family friendly (several cars refused | to pick us up - a family of 4 - because they apparently only take | 2-3 passengers in the back seats). | julienchastang wrote: | Lol. The last time I was in Paris, I must have lost 20-30EUR of | metro tickets. I kept the tickets in the same pocket as my smart | phone, and when I took it out of my pocket the tickets would fall | out with it. Having lived there on and off over the years I still | have the yellow and later purple tickets, some of them unused. | Anyway, ideally it would be nice to have an NFC style solution | where you would be charged on exit (for the metro/RER at least) | so that you would not have to figure out the proper fare ahead of | time. Bus would be a flat rate. And while we are at it, make the | fare system simpler (though some old-timers may remember when you | needed multiple tickets for long, multi-zone bus rides -- at | least those days are gone). | lapink wrote: | I live in Paris. For tourists or travelers the alternative are | not really ready. Ticket on smartphone support is bad (only | specific models, and no iPhones) and unlike London or Brussel, | you cannot use your credit card as a ticket. | | So your only hope is to already have a dedicated rechargeable | card. But this card is not sold in the automated machine. So if | you are a tourist in some small station and you realize at | midnight that you need to take the subway, there will be no way | to buying a ticket... | | Im all for ending those tickets, but the RATP is really bad at | supporting alternatives. | countvonbalzac wrote: | Can't be worse than my visit to Rome last month. All the locals | had their monthly passes, but all of the tourists bought paper | tickets. Only problem was the bus to the Vatican had an issue | with its ticket scanner - it didn't exist. Of course that bus | got stopped and each of the tourists got a 55 euro fine. When I | pointed out that the scanner was missing, the inspector didn't | speak English, but when it came time to pay the fine, her | English was flawless. | paganel wrote: | > the inspector didn't speak English | | Next time, if that happens again, you need to be more | assertive, by going with a: "Ma vai fanculo, vai!" (difficult | to translate), followed by a more mellow "io non pago | niente!" (I won't pay anything), and physically try to make a | way out of the whole situation. | | Granted, I'm not an Italian and I don't live in Italy, but I | do live in a city very similar to Rome in many other aspects, | and I've seen myself around these parts how foreign tourists | are sometimes "hunted" for fines the same as it happened to | you. In many cases those applying the abusive fines go for | the "easy prey", as soon as you show some hints of fighting | back they let you go, so to speak, not worth the hassle for | them (especially as they also know that they're doing | something very shitty and abusive). | curiousgal wrote: | > only specific models, and no iPhones | | More like only recent-ish Samsung phones. Complete shitshow. | kioleanu wrote: | Hey when all you have is a hammer... | WastingMyTime89 wrote: | It's supposedly going to be fixed next year. | | It took ages to reach an agreement with Apple which was | offering extortionate rates for allowing their customers to | use the NFC chip in their phones in a classic Apple move. | GuB-42 wrote: | Paris has about the worst card system I have ever seen. In | other places I have been to where there is a transport card | system, anyone can buy a card, usually in a vending machine in | a convenient location, and do everything with it. Locals may | have nominative cards that work in the same way, but are also | tied to an account. | | In Paris you have the following (at least you did a year ago): | | - Paper tickets | | - Prepaid, non-nominative cards that can be used for single | trips and day-long unlimited travel plans, but no more than | that | | - Prepaid, nominative cards that support day-long and week-long | travel plans, but not single trips | | - Nominative cards that can do all of the above and more, but | only for locals | | - There is also the app, that has other limitations | | And there is also some weirdness with connections. Metro to | train may or may not be possible on a single ticket. Metro to | RER usually is, but Metro to tram is not, unless maybe if you | have the right card. | | Why can't they do a single card that does everything, like in | all other countries? Or maybe two, a non-nominative and a | nominative one. | mfost wrote: | I'm testing the beta version of their Android ticket software | and it works pretty well (and not limited to Samsung phones). | It should be available soon I think. | GekkePrutser wrote: | The same is going on here in Barcelona. They have the new | electronic ticket but you need to pay for it, then get it sent | to your home and it's not anonymous like most of the paper ones | were. | | You can get one on your phone too but it still doesn't solve | the anonymity problem. Even if you get it on the phone you need | to submit photo ID first :( Still a royal pain for tourists | too. | | They also (next year) want to stop the super easy 1,10 euro per | trip (any trip any mode) tariff. Which also makes everything | easy because there's no need to do an exit scan. Besides the | hassle that the paper tickets were (they become unreadable if | you look at them wrong) I don't really see any positives to | this new system. | | Besides that it has taken many more years and millions to | introduce than planned. And it's already been hacked before it | went live because someone didn't change the admin/admin | passwords on the website... Gotta love government operations. | ThePowerOfFuet wrote: | >They also (next year) want to stop the super easy 1,10 euro | per trip (any trip any mode) tariff. | | Do you have a source for that? | paganel wrote: | > Even if you get it on the phone you need to submit photo ID | first | | Why do they need ID for city travel tickets? That's just | crazy. Really crazy. Where will all this madness end? Why | isn't anyone saying: "Hey, asking for ID data in order to | travel by bus is pure China-like craziness!"? | huehehue wrote: | That's a shame. I just paid for a T-casual with cash and it | worked beautifully throughout the week despite becoming a | crumpled mess by the end of my trip. | | NYC is moving to a system called OMNY, where you can either | hunt down a retailer with the cards or just use tap-to-pay. I | suspect many casual riders will use the latter because of the | low friction, but it's indeed not anonymous. | julienb_sea wrote: | NYC tap to pay is a beautiful system. Seamless with any | mobile phone, and if you have an apple watch the | integration is insane -- just put the watch near the reader | and it knows it's a transit reader and just works, no need | to even initiate payment. | johnwalkr wrote: | I recently travelled to Paris a few times as a tourist. I | normally travelled by train and metro. But on the last trip, a | bus was much faster according to google maps. | | Researched and knew the bus that would take me to my hotel. | Checked google and the physical sign at the bustop at Gare de | L'est. It confirmed you can buy a ticket on the bus. Tried to | board a bus and got yelled at by another customer and the | driver for not knowing I have to buy a ticket ahead of time at | a machine or use "SMS ticket" which I wasn't eager to use and | probably wouldn't even have worked on my foreign phone plan. | | OK, I happen to know from previous bad experience I can't buy a | ticket anywhere nearby the bus stop but have to go to the | basement in the station to buy a ticket which is located at the | entrance to the metro. The lineup is 20 people deep and the | machine is SLOW to use. Definitely takes 2-3 minutes per | person. After 10 minutes of googling about cards for tourists I | have learned that you can only get a card if you live in Paris, | confirm your address, and even then it takes 2-3 weeks to get | one. There is a card you can get as a tourist, but it's only | useful for expensive day passes, not for taking 1-2 euro trips. | Is there another solution for paying for transit? Maybe, but | good luck finding out what it is, I certainly could not in 10 | minutes of googling or asking my French friends. | | The solution was a 30 euro taxi ride. | | Paris the the number 1 tourist destination on the planet, a | travel hub city, has a great public transportation system, and | from my experience is a great place for travel and probably to | live. It's sad that they discontinued a simple metro ticket and | require a special card to travel that is not readily available | to tourists (or if it is, I certainly couldn't figure out a way | to board a bus or predict how to board the metro next year). | From personal experience, throughout the entire world, I have | never experienced not being able to board public transit by | using cash or credit card either on board or from a nearby, | working ticket machine. I have experienced simply using cash, | using my tap to pay card, or missing one train/bus due to | figuring out how to find a local ticket card or transit card. | Only in Paris have I literally given up and taken a taxi. | throwaway5959 wrote: | Paris is so openly hostile to tourists (strangers were more | helpful than staff). I'm happy to visit everywhere else as we | do more visits to Europe. | WastingMyTime89 wrote: | Paris is fine for tourists. People just expect to be | treated with politeness and decency which is not how | Americans generally behave with staff. | | Just say hi, please, thank you, ask people if they speak | English or show a minimum of contrition when talking | directly in English to show you realise it would be nicer | to speak the language of the land, everything will be fine. | | It's puzzling to me why people expect things to go well | visiting France without studying what's considered polit | and what's not. It's the capital of a country. It's not | Disneyland. | ekianjo wrote: | The service is awful in Paris. You dont need to be | offended by that fact. | | Only parisians can get used to it. | throwaway5959 wrote: | My wife and I were plenty polite, like I said many of our | interactions with everyday people were fine. It was some | of the workers in restaurants and hotels that were rude. | There was also the pickpocket at the train station | impersonating a station worker (thankfully we ignored | them and the attendant in the booth told them to go | away). | | It's OK though. It's your city. We're happy to visit | elsewhere and I'm sure you're happy we're not there, | silly Americans that we are. | missedthecue wrote: | There is a difference I think between getting a lesser or | more reserved level of friendliness and getting outright | rudeness and hostility. | AdrianB1 wrote: | Travelling to Paris for ~ 15 years as I have some family | there, I never, ever used a bus: either RER, regular subway | or walking (I walked 10+ km several times). I found the | experience of bus tickets for tourists a hit or miss across | Europe, either big cities not friendly with tourists (some: | especially inaccessible with people not speaking the local | language, mostly in Germany) or positively surprised when | things were a lot simpler than I thought in unexpected | places. For public transportation, this lack of consistency | is bad. | WastingMyTime89 wrote: | > After 10 minutes of googling about cards for tourists I | have learned that you can only get a card if you live in | Paris | | That hasn't been true for years. Anyone can get a pay-as-you- | go card which you can top up from your phone or a machine | inside every station. The only issue is that you have to buy | them either from a counter in a station or from one of the | numerous approved shops. | | You can also pay the bus from inside. I don't know what you | are talking about. From the tone of your post, you probably | didn't bother saying hello and just started talking in | English so the driver told you to get lost. | ThePowerOfFuet wrote: | >After 10 minutes of googling about cards for tourists I have | learned that you can only get a card if you live in Paris, | confirm your address, and even then it takes 2-3 weeks to get | one. There is a card you can get as a tourist, but it's only | useful for expensive day passes, not for taking 1-2 euro | trips. | | They failed you, because such a card exists and is called the | Navigo Easy, costs EUR2, and you can load individual trips on | it. Unfortunately the machines don't sell the cards yet, so | you have to talk to a human. | jfim wrote: | It's almost as if the RATP doesn't want tourists to use it | though. From their website on the pass | (https://www.ratp.fr/en/titres-et-tarifs/passe-navigo-easy) | | > Do you want to take trips on the metro, bus or tram? Do | you want a rechargeable pass? The Navigo Easy pass is made | for you! | | > Ideal for : Les touristes et les clients voyageant | occasionnellement | | There's also a table further down the page that's only | available in French that explains which fare combinations | are allowed (ie. cannot load both a full fare and reduced | fare on the same card). Although even if one reads French, | it's not clear what the orange cell means, so maybe the | RATP just hates all of its customers. :-) | bagels wrote: | It's in French, is that why you are saying they don't | want tourists to use it? | | Otherwise, it basically says: Ideal for tourists and | occasional travellers. | bombcar wrote: | I think that's the gist - the table is confusing and | complex even for a French speaker. | | "Tourist" cards should always be "you can ride basically | everything" and "more expensive than if you know what | you're doing". I have no idea what a "day pass" on the | Metro is, but tourists will gladly pay more for something | they don't have to think about and works everywhere. | [deleted] | ThePowerOfFuet wrote: | The machines are being equipped with card dispensers; you can | see them in modern machines when they are open for maintenance | or money collection. They're just not ready yet. | floucky wrote: | Automated machines distribute cards for a few months already. I | was used to take tickets by 10, and got a card last time. | ghaff wrote: | Welcome to public transport just about everywhere. It's fine if | you're a local or a frequent enough traveler to one of the | cities where you have an app and/or a contactless card. | | A first-time visitor who is jet-lagged and may not speak the | language? Sorry you're not our priority--even at the airport. | ekianjo wrote: | More surveillance then. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2022-10-06 23:00 UTC)